# Rousimar Palhares released by the UFC



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2013/...after-lengthy-ankle-lock-win-over-mike-pierce


> The UFC apparently won't wait for word from Brazil's MMA commission before making a decision on Rousimar Palhares.
> 
> UFC President Dana White on Thursday told ESPN that the welterweight has been released from the promotion and won't fight for the company again following his submission win over Mike Pierce on Wednesday night.
> 
> ...


Book Askren/Palhares now Bellator


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)




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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

It seems harsh, you'd think he'd at least get a warning about not letting it happen again.

But then again...

Maybe he has already been warned about it?

Edit: Just seen Booms vid... interesting Dana also said Paul Daley will never fight in the UFC again too.


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

Well this is disappointing news


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Good. Stupid bastard doesn't deserve another chance to injure someone and I hope no one else picks him up either. What promotion would want a guy so stupid that he can't let go of a submission? 

He can take his dumb ass back out into the fields to make a living or carry shingles up a ladder for the rest of his life.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

I am not a Palhares fan, but I thought the loss of $50K was good enough. That and a warning that one more time and your done. Not really going to lose any sleep over it though.


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## evzbc (Oct 11, 2006)

That's bullshit.

I watched the fights this morning and I didn't think that Pallhares had any malicious intent to injury Pierce. 

He held it MAYBE 2 seconds after Pierce tapped? True it might be long enough to do some damage, but that guys adrenaline is pumping like crazy.

We see guys get tagged in the liver and drop like flies, it doesn't mean they're out. Sometimes guys shout out in pain so I have the feeling he just wanted to be sure buddy tapped and everyone saw it.

Bah.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Good riddance. The UFC doesn't need fighters like him on the roster, they need competitors who understand the rules, and follow them.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

It isn't the fact that Palhares held the sub too long this time. It is the fact that he has done this MANY times already and has already been punished for it in the past. The guy never learns and continues to do potentially permanent damage to other fighters because of his actions.

Palhares does more damage to the UFC then he does good so honestly I don't have an issue with this.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Wow...a lot of mixed reviews. Personally I'd say the $50k is enough and donate that to Mike Pierce maybe even. 

But it's too bad. What should have been a great victory for him turns out to be his last fight. UFC has too much to lose so they decided to cut em. 

Get a win, should be SOTN, but he gets cut instead.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I'm with some of you guys, it's just too dangerous and bad for the organization/sport to let a guy like that fight there anymore. It's been at least twice now that this has happened and he has a history of doing it during camp/training.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

******* dana white, doesn't know how to make a good decision if it smacked him in the face. Jesus let's just turn this into ***** without strikes or submissions while we are at it.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Good, both guys were dry and any submission would hurt long before injury. Any grappler... Like Rousimar... Knows this. Prick.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Very good decision by the UFC in my opinion, this isn't the first time and obviously Palhares does'nt get it.

If Palhares would of went on to damage another fighter permanently because of this stupidity the UFC would look incredibly bad for keeping this can around. No reason to hold onto him any longer.


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## Glothin (Jun 8, 2010)

Did the ufc fine him 50k or something? I dont get how he had 50k take. Away from him. Because he didn't get a bonus? Most fighters do not. It is not guaranteed money.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Glothin said:


> Did the ufc fine him 50k or something? I dont get how he had 50k take. Away from him. Because he didn't get a bonus? Most fighters do not. It is not guaranteed money.


It is if it is the only sub on the card and a slick one at that.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> It is if it is the only sub on the card and a slick one at that.


It's still not a guarantee though, those bonuses are given at the discretion of the UFC, it wasn't his to lose.

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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Again, many people have had average finishes but since they were the only one to get that of it's type on the card they win it by default. Also Mike Pierce should be cut too since he lost this fight in 31 seconds so no way he deserves to stay just because he was the victim of grappling domination.


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## lights out 24 (Jul 23, 2012)

I say good riddance. He has a long history of holding onto submissions too long. There is never a reason to hold onto a sub like that even if there is bad blood. Holding onto a submission has only one intent & that's to injure. 

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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

I wonder if those who say Palhares should be cut, are the same ones saying oblique kicks and elbows on the bottom should be banned.

Newer mma fans would not have lasted long watching the early days of ufc.

:laugh:

More sad to see Palhares cut, than Okami or Fitch.

Wonder what the reasoning behind it was.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

I wasn't pissed he held it long. To me it appeared be looked right at the ref, seen the fight was ending and then cranked it again. That should get him cut imo.

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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Good move by the UFC. If it was Palhares' first, second, third, forth, fifth, sixth or seventh warning maybe don't cut him. However, the dude is just an idiot and I'm glad he's gone.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

this is bullshit.

it ain't ballet. ffs.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

On one hand it sucks on the other hand Palhares is going to be an awesome addition to WSOF or Bellator.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

hellholming said:


> this is bullshit.
> 
> it ain't ballet. ffs.


Apparently to stupid dana it is, no soccer kicks and no knees on the ground and now no blame on the refs and giving the phantom tappers an even better chance of escaping


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

He honestly didn't hold it that long. It's the refs job to stop the submission, he failed to do so


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

Man, that sucks. I would've liked to see what Paul Harris could do in the WW Division. Can't say I'm surprised though.


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## Swp (Jan 2, 2010)

This is Bullshit , ******* pathetic , Any eccuse the get to cut a guy , they immidiatly take it , so they could bring new guys that so they can pay them less... ******* stupid ..
Fireing someone for beeing to good at his job .... ******* Dana its a hypocritical puppet , he always whines about guys not bringing it , this guy always brought it ffs...


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## BAMMA UK Guy (Jun 26, 2013)

Paul harris was been handed a ban by one of the commisions while in the UFC for doing this before, so it's not like he didn't know is it. It may not have been long but don't forget it's not like he's not applying pressure. He's top level at this stuff.

Also, don't forget Babalu got cut by the UFC and banned for not letting go of a sub as well, so the precedent was set back then.

Paul Harris now joins Babalu and Paul Daley on the banned forever list.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

The extra crank and lengh he held it was just stupid. Not surprised he's gone. 

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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Palhares will f*u*cking murder Askren.


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## DanTheJu (Mar 3, 2007)

My 2 Cents:

If this were the first time Palhares (or Paul Harris as some like to call him) did something like this I would say "warn him and let it go". BUT, this is not the first, not even close to it. It is the 2nd time in the UFC and 4th time that it has been documented in MMA. It has been documented many other times in training and in BJJ matches. 

The guy obviously has no respect, can not be controlled, and intends to cause injury even if a ref is attempting to stop the fight.



UFC_OWNS said:


> Apparently to stupid dana it is, no soccer kicks and no knees on the ground and now no blame on the refs and giving the phantom tappers an even better chance of escaping


"Stupid dana" has no authority over weather soccer kicks or knees on the ground are allowed in MMA in the United States. The rules are set by the governing body of the state that the fight is held in. There is currently NO STATE that allows either soccer kicks or knees/kicks to a grounded opponent. 

While it is clear you like old fashioned Pride rules, it is also clear that you place the blame for rule changes on the wrong party.


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## JASONJRF (Nov 3, 2009)

I think for those saying that this is harsh and maybe he held it a bit too long but didnt have ill will, you have to understand he has a history of holding locks too long. Im positive he would have been warned to not do it again yet he keeps doing it hes had enough chances and they did what they had to.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I'm on the fence with this, I think it's a little to harsh maybe a lighter punishment would have done. 

With all that adrenaline flowing and emotion in a fight, maybe Plahares got caught up in the moment.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

DanTheJu said:


> My 2 Cents:
> 
> If this were the first time Palhares (or Paul Harris as some like to call him) did something like this I would say "warn him and let it go". BUT, this is not the first, not even close to it. It is the 2nd time in the UFC and 4th time that it has been documented in MMA. It has been documented many other times in training and in BJJ matches.
> 
> ...


You underestimate how much influence dana has, if he really wanted to he could get soccer kicks and knees implemented and could have done it a while ago. All it takes is him filing a request of rule changing in MMA and perhaps a bribe seeing how nevada state athletic commission seems corrupt to me and presto.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

I wonder was it the last fight in his contract. If so cutting him and just not renewing him might be one and the same and so its an easy decision to make for DW.
If I had more fights on my contract and I was cut for that I would sue the UFC, referencing the old double submission of Matt Lindland, and also point out the inexperienced ref who went to the wrong place to release the submission. A good official would have gone straight to the ankle and it would have not been possible for him to maintain the hold, or at least if he tried then it would be an obvious case of trying to cause extra damage.


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## Inkdot (Jun 15, 2009)

Maybe instead of cutting him they should make him fight with a shock collar and just zap him when they need him to stop pulling knees apart. He is too thick in the head and lacks the mental awareness required to act professionally.

Also, the ref could have done a better job. He was too far away and pulled at the wrong place to break it up. With leg locks you always need to be extra careful because the pain threshold and the breaking point are perilously close.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Basically, I'm not surprised. Something stupid always seems to happen in every Palhares fight, and this is just the final step for Paul Harris. I don't think it'll be a Paul Daley-esque ban, but Dana's so stubborn you just never know.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

I liken Palhares to a 5 year old kid with a gun. No doubt in my mind that Rousimar doesn't mean to hurt guys and isn't 'evil' as some suggest but he is just so god damn simple, he is the MMA equivalent to the waterboy! Thing is you can't continue to let a guy do things like is no matter how much intent is behind it. Like someone said what happens if he gets a RNC on someone and they go up and he holds it for 5 seconds while the ref tries to rip him off. That kind of imagery would set the ufc back years!


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

I feel he shouldn't be perma banned, cutting him is one thing, but you know he could leave and work on his issue, then come back. He is a good grappler


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

edlavis88 said:


> I liken Palhares to a 5 year old kid with a gun. No doubt in my mind that Rousimar doesn't mean to hurt guys and isn't 'evil' as some suggest but he is just so god damn simple, he is the MMA equivalent to the waterboy! Thing is you can't continue to let a guy do things like is no matter how much intent is behind it. Like someone said what happens if he gets a RNC on someone and they go up and he holds it for 5 seconds while the ref tries to rip him off. That kind of imagery would set the ufc back years!


Agreed. His fight IQ is just lacking. He's not only hurting people, he's doing other stupid shit. Remember him jumping on the cage to celebrate early against Dan Miller? The 'greasing' incident with Marquardt? The guy's just not all there, and continues to do stupid shit in the cage. It should come as no surprise at all that he's been cut.


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## Tiptup (Mar 12, 2012)

people seem quite uneducated on this subject. There is always a reason why someone hold on to a hold. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FohRibjEbgI 

I remember when Royce didn't let go of Gordeau after Shamrock claimed that he didn't tap out. Fool me once and all that.

Also, Pierce was tapping on the ref most of the time which obviously Palhares wouldn't feel and with that type of lock you are usually looking away from the person.

This guy is going to be a killer at 170 and it's a shame he's cut. I'd love to see him fight Askren.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

It seems that a bulk of fans are vastly understating this mans actions. Heel hooks are nasty business, a brutal submission, and this guy is one of the most devastating heel hook specialist in the UFC. He knows EXACTLY what he's doing in there with these submissions.

Let's put this into perspective (and he's done this many times in the past and been previously suspended for it). He snatches onto a devastating heel hook (an extremely painful move), his opponent is frantically tapping out in pain and desperation, the referee intervenes, but Palhares continues to put his opponent through agonising pain without his consent, potentially causing him career threatening injuries and just causing an absurd amount of pain in general. Also, not only does Palhares refuse to let go after his opponent has tapped, but he actually continues to apply even more torque and pressure to the submission before he eventually lets go.

I'm sorry, but this is borderline psychopathic behaviour, purposely continuing to apply serious amounts of pain and agony to an opponent who is clearly desperate for him to stop. That's the sign of a truly sick human being right there. Good riddance.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

This is fighting not a day care center, jesus everyone has become sensitive ninnys, i swear most MMA fans (at least 90% suck MMA has the worst fans of any sport) want boring bland fighters with no character or mystique or anything interesting about them.


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## lights out 24 (Jul 23, 2012)

UFC_OWNS said:


> This is fighting not a day care center, jesus everyone has become sensitive ninnys, i swear most MMA fans (at least 90% suck MMA has the worst fans of any sport) want boring bland fighters with no character or mystique or anything interesting about them.


Ufc owns, may I ask if you compete? If so professional or amateur? I agree mma is not ballroom dancing but again this isn't his first offense.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

lights out 24 said:


> Ufc owns, may I ask if you compete? If so professional or amateur? I agree mma is not ballroom dancing but again this isn't his first offense.


Amateur I do, pro when I get back to the gym hopefully. Really the worst parts aren't leg submissions but instead if you have ever been put in a bad neck crank like I have that is really really bad, and after that I would say a tight guillotine feels like a giant is ripping your head off from the jaw upwards and then armbar would be 3rd. 

Leg and foot locks don't even feel that bad compared to those 3 only potentially a lethal straight ankle lock or maybe a toe hold would match that.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Amateur I do, pro when I get back to the gym hopefully. Really the worst parts aren't leg submissions but instead if you have ever been put in a bad neck crank like I have that is really really bad, and after that I would say a tight guillotine feels like a giant is ripping your head off from the jaw upwards and then armbar would be 3rd.
> 
> Leg and foot locks don't even feel that bad compared to those 3 only potentially a lethal straight ankle lock or maybe a toe hold would match that.


You're missing the point. What if a sparring partner continued to apply pressure to your neck after you had tapped out and even continued to tighten the crank? Would you just be ok with that and let it slide? I don't think any one in the right mind would.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> You're missing the point. What if a sparring partner continued to apply pressure to your neck after you had tapped out and even continued to tighten the crank? Would you just be ok with that and let it slide? I don't think any one in the right mind would.


Well yeah I would be bothered because he is my training partner, not my enemy across the cage/ring who wants to hurt me. It's all fair play in actual competition, and I'm much more annoyed when people try and Ko you in the gym then hold on too long for a sub.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

It isn't all fair play. This is a sport, not a gladiatorial battle to the death. There are rules in place that dictate that when your opponent taps, or when the referee steps in, you release the hold, or withdraw from throwing further attacks. Rousimar Palhares doesn't adhere to the rules of the sport. If this was back-street illegitimate fighting then fair enough, fight to injure, but this is a sport. When someone submits, you stop. Simple.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

I feel bad for him (I'd feel for anyone who lost their job), but I can't fault the UFC. It's a business, and now that they're partners with Fox, they have to be different in these kinds of situations. And it's not like the UFC needs Palhares or anything like that.


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## arkanoydz (Mar 15, 2010)

I know it's always a very difficult thing to do: to watch something and be 'unbiased' since, as everyone points out, he has a history. However, after repeated viewings, I believe Palhares did not hold on to the submission for as long as people say he has (sounds like he held on for an infinity) and I am convinced he let go of the submission as soon as he had visual on the ref. He still has work to do on that aspect of competition (be clear-minded enough to let go when the ref's signal comes).

Cutting him is a big, big blow. Other organizations will think twice before signing him. 

People who say stupid s**t like 'send him back to working in the fields' - you have no idea what it means to work your ass off and transcend your humble social origins, especially in a country like Brazil where racism is based not so much on the color of your skin as much as your _social status._

Dana's been doing this for more than a decade so he knows much more than I do - however, my opinion on the matter is that if Pierce has not been injured, then, before resorting to a life-altering punishment like the UFC has done, intensify the sports psychology therapy Palhares is undergoing a few notches further - but do let him return once further 'verification' to his condition have been made, if these turn out to be satisfactory.

Schaub's and Mir's extra punches to an unconscious Crocop when he lay there, clearly knocked the f**k out, were way more disgusting than Palhares' latest mistake imo.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Good, leglocks pulled to long or far can cause permanent career ending damage and this is the hundredth time he has done it. They shouldn't wait till some guy ends up in a wheelchair for life before cutting Palhares.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Trix said:


> I wonder if those who say Palhares should be cut, are the same ones saying oblique kicks and elbows on the bottom should be banned.


I'm a little late to this thread but I wanted to respond to this. This is an apples to oranges comparison, a better comparison would be after the fight is over do you still throw punches/kicks? The best example would be Rampage vs Wandy, many of us felt that Rampage should have been fined/punished for the additional cheap shots after the ref was pulling him off.


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

Liddellianenko said:


> Good, leglocks pulled to long or far can cause permanent career ending damage and this is the hundredth time he has done it. They shouldn't wait till some guy ends up in a wheelchair for life before cutting Palhares.


I'm not heartbroken over the decision to ban him.

While I would like to see some more of WW Paul Harris, I think we can all be pretty confident that it would just be a matter of time until he pisses hot, or has another Toquinho brain-fart, etc, etc.

At least he can go fight again immediately. If Dana had decided to just hit him with a timeout, he would have been missing paychecks for the next six months or whatever.

Good luck, tree stump. Go rip some more legs off, and maybe one day we'll see you back in The Show.

.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> Good, leglocks pulled to long or far can cause permanent career ending damage and this is the hundredth time he has done it. They shouldn't wait till some guy ends up in a wheelchair for life before cutting Palhares.


Exactly, kind of incredible how many people are throwing fits over this because they don't get it, just like Palhares.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

cdtcpl said:


> I'm a little late to this thread but I wanted to respond to this. This is an apples to oranges comparison, a better comparison would be after the fight is over do you still throw punches/kicks? The best example would be Rampage vs Wandy, many of us felt that Rampage should have been fined/punished for the additional cheap shots after the ref was pulling him off.


Palhares releasing the hold late was the refs fault.

Just like Burkman releasing a guillotine late on Jon Fitch was Mazzagatti's fault.

Everyone holds a sub until the ref says the fight is over.

No one releases a sub when their opponent taps because sometimes the ref doesn't see it.

The ref dove on Pierce as if he was protecting Pierce from strikes. That was a mistake on his part, Palhares didn't see him there.

Palhares didn't do anything wrong.

He held the sub until the ref told him to release it.

The rules say the fight continues until the ref says its over.

Palhares did it by the book.

.


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## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

BOOM said:


> Exactly, kind of incredible how many people are throwing fits over this because they don't get it, just like Palhares.


Kind of incredible that Frank Mir kept Brock is a submission way after Brock was tapping like crazy. It can't be one rule for one situation, and one for another. That's why people are mad.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Goodbye, sweet prince.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

DanTheJu said:


> My 2 Cents:
> 
> If this were the first time Palhares (or Paul Harris as some like to call him) did something like this I would say "warn him and let it go". BUT, this is not the first, not even close to it. It is the 2nd time in the UFC and 4th time that it has been documented in MMA. It has been documented many other times in training and in BJJ matches.
> 
> ...


This man knows.

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## js9234 (Apr 8, 2007)

You have zero clue buddy. I can't tell if some posters responses are just people trolling, being stupid, just plain ignorant, thinking it's cool to argue for the sake of it, or completely biased. If you honestly believe that, you really need to step back and rewatch it unbiasedly(if that's even a word). Not just talking about you. It was just one of the last ones I read.


Trix said:


> Palhares releasing the hold late was the refs fault.
> 
> Just like Burkman releasing a guillotine late on Jon Fitch was Mazzagatti's fault.
> 
> ...


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Ludinator said:


> Kind of incredible that Frank Mir kept Brock is a submission way after Brock was tapping like crazy. It can't be one rule for one situation, and one for another. That's why people are mad.


Frank Mir did it *once*.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

cdtcpl said:


> I'm a little late to this thread but I wanted to respond to this. This is an apples to oranges comparison, a better comparison would be after the fight is over do you still throw punches/kicks? The best example would be Rampage vs Wandy, many of us felt that Rampage should have been fined/punished for the additional cheap shots after the ref was pulling him off.


Not really, it's both. The holding for to long can be compared to throwing additional strikes, BUT the argument of longterm/permanent damage due to it can very well be compared to oblique kicks, as it's not about the time span. A powerfull heel hook could rip your ligaments in a split second, just as an oblique kick could do. And submission holds are much more controllable than kicks.

So it would be a little weird to use the permanent damage argument against Palhares, while being fully OK with techniques like the oblike kick to the knee (which were a mojority here when we once had the discussion about that technique)


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

If this were any other fighter I'd say it's too harsh of a punishment but this isn't the first time Paul Harris got punished for holding on to a submission after the ref stopped the fight. Out of all the people in the world Palhares should know what applying too much pressure to leg locks can do. I don't buy the heat of the moment thing and I certainly don't buy that it was the ref's fault. What's the ref supposed to do? Pry Pierce's leg free? How?


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

DanTheJu said:


> My 2 Cents:
> 
> If this were the first time Palhares (or Paul Harris as some like to call him) did something like this I would say "warn him and let it go". BUT, this is not the first, not even close to it. It is the 2nd time in the UFC and 4th time that it has been documented in MMA. It has been documented many other times in training and in BJJ matches.


Remember when Palhares had to finish Dan Miller twice in the same fight because the ref didn't notice Miller verbally submitted? That wasn't the first time Palhares had to finish someone twice in the same fight due to poor reffing either.

Its been documented more than once.

What about the time Palhares complained to the ref Marquardt's leg was slippery and Marquardt knocked him out. Palhares has been treated unfairly in the past.

Can you blame Palhares for taking the time to make certain a fight is over before releasing a sub considering he's been robbed in the past by inattentive refs?



js9234 said:


> You have zero clue buddy. I can't tell if some posters responses are just people trolling, being stupid, just plain ignorant, thinking it's cool to argue for the sake of it, or completely biased. If you honestly believe that, you really need to step back and rewatch it unbiasedly(if that's even a word). Not just talking about you. It was just one of the last ones I read.


I can't find a good photograph of the finish where you can actually see which direction Palhares is looking when the ref tries to stop the fight.

From the angle I saw, Palhares was looking upward with his line of sight being away from where the ref was.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Trix said:


> Remember when Palhares had to finish Dan Miller twice in the same fight because the ref didn't notice Miller verbally submitted? That wasn't the first time Palhares had to finish someone twice in the same fight due to poor reffing either.
> 
> Its been documented more than once.
> 
> ...


The Dan Miller fight where Palhares jumped on the cage when the fight wasnt over you mean? Or the Marquardt fight where he decided to complain to the ref whilst Marquardt was taking a swing at him? Yeah, totally not his fault. :laugh:


I don't even know what you are arguing here... Even his manager says he is a retard with a history of holding submissions too long and he understands with his cutting from the UFC.



> When Rousimar Palhares' manager Alex Davis told the Brazilian welterweight that he had been cut less than 24 hours after his controversial win over Mike Pierce, Palhares was "very sad." However, Davis said he was also a bit confused.
> 
> "He's perplexed," Davis told MMAFighting.com. "He doesn't really grasp it. He doesn't really understand that he's doing something overly wrong. He doesn't get it."
> 
> ...


http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/10/...exed-by-release-from-ufc-according-to-manager


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Well yeah I would be bothered because he is my training partner, not my enemy across the cage/ring who wants to hurt me. It's all fair play in actual competition, and I'm much more annoyed when people try and Ko you in the gym then hold on too long for a sub.


I'd much rather be flash KO'd than have my heel ripped in half whilst lying on the floor in excruciating pain. This is entirely subjective and irrelevant to the discussion at hand though.

This is a sport, a competition with rules and safety regulations, not a drunken bar fight where any thing goes. You may see the opponent across the cage from you as an "enemy"and that's fine, what ever pumps you up, but you also need to remember that he is also a competitor, competing in a sporting competition with rules and regulations to permit fighter safety. 

So holding onto a brutal submission against the consent of the other fighter is simply wrong in this situation. I can tolerate "one offs", but Palhares has been doing this for years and has no respect for the safety of the other competitors in this sport.

My gut feeling says this guy will be behind bars in a few years time for some thing ridiculous. There's some thing not quite right in this guys head.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

Good.

BTW for anyone complaining about the ref, here he goes straight for Paul Harris' arms and he still doesn't let go.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Killz said:


> The Dan Miller fight where Palhares jumped on the cage when the fight wasnt over you mean? Or the Marquardt fight where he decided to complain to the ref whilst Marquardt was taking a swing at him? Yeah, totally not his fault. :laugh:
> 
> I don't even know what you are arguing here... Even his manager says he is a retard with a history of holding submissions too long and he understands with his cutting from the UFC.
> 
> http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/10/...exed-by-release-from-ufc-according-to-manager


Dan Miller verbally submits. You can hear it in the audio, he screams: "STOP, STOP".

Then he claims he didn't submit because the ref didn't notice. Maybe that's why Dan Millers career is over. All that bad karma.

That shows Palhares is perfectly capable of letting go of subs like a normal person.

I'm pretty sure he trains not to let go until the ref stops the fight because he's been robbed in the past when he's done that.

I don't think Palhares is slow or dim witted. I think he's poor and uneducated and probably being taken advantage of by his manager and athletic comissions who constantly blame Palhares for refs making bad calls.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

AJClark said:


> Good.
> 
> BTW for anyone complaining about the ref, here he goes straight for Paul Harris' arms and he still doesn't let go.












Palhares is looking down at the mat.

Then he's looking in this direction

<--------

The ref is over here.

------->

Palhares doesn't see him.


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## Professor (Mar 3, 2013)

People's perception of how long he actually held it because of his history, is tainted. And also because how much Pierce was tapping but the fight's over when the ref calls it off, not because your opponent taps. 

What about Mir when he put Kongo to sleep and held it for at least another 2-3 seconds? The ref had already stopped it but he had to verbally ask the ref to make sure Kongo was out. If the ref stops the fight, it's over. And speaking of Mir, just because the guy screams in pain doesn't necessarily mean he's ready to tap (although obviously Pierce did) ala Noguiera. Also one of the Gracie's had their arm snapped by Sakuraba for not tapping. Point is, Palhares may have not felt the tap nor did he feel the ref on HIM, so why should he stop?

Like most who have 'defended' Palhares have said, the ref was clearly uneducated and stopped the fight grabbing the wrong body part. Imagine the ref jumping to grab Rampage's foot while he's pounding away at Wanderlei after he's KO'd him? Holding onto a submission a bit too long is the same thing as getting punched over and over after you've been KO'd. Every BJJ practitioner knows the point at which they need to go to break an arm/leg - Palhares could hold that heel hook for the next hour just to cause enough pain for a tap but not actually break his leg.

Not sure why people are comparing him to Babalu either, he had a motive - wanted to teach his opponent a 'lesson' where Palhares was just very focused on the submission.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Trix said:


> Palhares is looking down at the mat.
> 
> Then he's looking in this direction
> 
> ...


When he feels the tap he should be looking for the ref. Stop making excuses for this psycho.


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## Professor (Mar 3, 2013)

Trix said:


> Palhares is looking down at the mat.
> 
> Then he's looking in this direction
> 
> ...


Agreed. Look at the video - as soon as Palhares feels the ref's freaking HEAD trying to pry his arm apart, he lets go.

People's perception of how long he actually held it because of his history, is tainted. And also because how much Pierce was tapping but the fight's over when the ref calls it off, not because your opponent taps. 

What about Mir when he put Kongo to sleep and held it for at least another 2-3 seconds? The ref had already stopped it but he had to verbally ask the ref to make sure Kongo was out. If the ref stops the fight, it's over. And speaking of Mir, just because the guy screams in pain doesn't necessarily mean he's ready to tap (although obviously Pierce did) ala Noguiera. Also one of the Gracie's had their arm snapped by Sakuraba for not tapping. Point is, Palhares may have not felt the tap nor did he feel the ref on HIM, so why should he stop?

Like most who have 'defended' Palhares have said, the ref was clearly uneducated and stopped the fight grabbing the wrong body part. Imagine the ref jumping to grab Rampage's foot while he's pounding away at Wanderlei after he's KO'd him? Holding onto a submission a bit too long is the same thing as getting punched over and over after you've been KO'd. Every BJJ practitioner knows the point at which they need to go to break an arm/leg - Palhares could hold that heel hook for the next hour just to cause enough pain for a tap but not actually break his leg.

Not sure why people are comparing him to Babalu either, he had a motive - wanted to teach his opponent a 'lesson' where Palhares was just very focused on the submission.



Sports_Nerd said:


> When he feels the tap he should be looking for the ref. Stop making excuses for this psycho.


Does he feel the tap though? He's in a fight, some of these guys don't even feel certain punches let alone taps.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Some of the lengths people will go to to defend a fighter who has consistently held onto submissions after the ref intervenes and is notorious for doing so in fight camps is quite absurd.

The referee slides over to Palhares and immediately touches the back of his shoulder whilst Palhares is still looking down and squeezing even tighter on the submission.

As soon as Palhares feels a third party touch him, he should have IMMEDIATELY released the hold. Instead of doing this, again, referring to the gif, he waits until the referee literally uses his head to push it into Palhares body.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Trix said:


> Palhares is looking down at the mat.
> 
> Then he's looking in this direction
> 
> ...


What, he doesn't have any peripheral vision? Can't feel the ref running across the mat or pushing on his body? Can't feel Pierce tapping multiple times or hear him screaming?

Give it up man, Palhares is a moron and an ass hole plain and simple.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Again, just pointing out that Palhares is known to hurt partners in TRAINING because of holding onto submissions for too long.

Connect the dots, apply some common sense and stop making up ridiculous excuses for this man.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

Trix said:


> Palhares is looking down at the mat.
> 
> Then he's looking in this direction
> 
> ...


And here?










He has no idea the ref is there? He doesn't hear Drwal scream in pain? He doesn't feel him tapping like crazy? He doesn't feel the ref pull his arms THREE times? Defend this, please.


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## tight (Aug 26, 2007)

Palhares is an exciting fighter because he brings unpredictability and sudden finishes, I'm always excited to see his fights.

- but IMO he should know when he is close to a submission and be aware of his opponent being ready to tap (out of respect for long term damage/permanent damage to another human being) as well as the referee and be ready to stop as soon as the ref says so, that is part of being a professional in this sport IMO. 

Having said that, the ref did a bad job of being in the right spot and alerting Palhares clearly and quickly (in this case). I think if Palhares didn't have a history of being a knucklehead he would have just received a warning, but the truth is no one would be surprised if he did it again and actually crippled someone, I think that is the position the UFC is looking at and if they let it go and something bad happened, the media would be all over it and they would really regret it.


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## Bison (Jan 7, 2013)

Already been suspended for doing this in the UFC + failed drug test + bizarre behaviour in Marquardt and Miller fights + cranking subs after the tap in MMA prior to UFC and in ADCC = righteous ban


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

It's astounding that people keep making excuses and defending this guy. All of the evidence is there and not even his own manager is complaining about the cut and is even suggesting Palhares needs therapy.

Give it up. The guy is a dirtbag and was rightfully cut.


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## m0nkey (Jun 13, 2009)

Ok, Palhares was one of my favourite fighters to watch in the UFC after his debut. To defend him is one thing but for a picture to be drawn for us indicating he was looking the other way when the ref ran past him then literally slid into him is borderline silly now. Even if he initially did not see the ref, would he not of thought the Ref was in a un-natural position when he still had hold of the leg and then cranked it? or do all ref's slide on there hands on knees mid fight?


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## lights out 24 (Jul 23, 2012)

Bison said:


> Already been suspended for doing this in the UFC + failed drug test + bizarre behaviour in Marquardt and Miller fights + cranking subs after the tap in MMA prior to UFC and in ADCC = righteous ban


Agreed! The reason I ask if some of you defending him if you compete is, after weigh in you have a rules meeting & tell you plain & simple when the ref jumps in then you are to disengage immediately. Any leg lock, hell any joint lock can jeopardize your career. Ankle locks, heel hooks can lead to an ankle dislocated, Achilles getting injured, the torque can even injure a knee. You're right this isn't synchronized swimming, badminton or such, it's a tough bad ass sport but you should never look to injure a fellow competitor. He has a long history of doing this. If it was his first time I can see the argument on his defense but your opinions simply stating this isn't a wimp sport is ludicrous.


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## Hail the Potato (Jul 29, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> I wasn't pissed he held it long. To me it appeared be looked right at the ref, seen the fight was ending and then cranked it again. That should get him cut imo.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


The way I saw it he did not notice the ref at all. 
I'm not saying that the UFC was wrong to cut him. He has done this in the past and rightfully been warned. But I am pretty convinced that he is not trying to injure his opponents. He just doesn't seem to be as mentally sharp as most other guys in the cage (nicest way I can think of to call him dumb), and it all happens too fast for him to act responsibly.
A part of me feel bad for Palhares, but I feel worse for his opponent's knees. That move is just too dangerous to be done by a guy who isn't capable of releasing IMMEDIATELY after getting the tap.

EDIT: Video on previous page makes it clear to me that he did not notice the ref.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

A fine, or even a 6 month or year suspension on the severe side would seem suffice, but released feels drastic. It seems like Dana has been looking for a reason and he got it.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

He's been suspended for 120 days by the Brazilian commission. Must be because he did nothing wrong.


(Can't post a link to the article as I'm on my phone)


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Anteries (Oct 22, 2010)

I was absolutely delighted that he has got permanently banned. Can all the people that disagree, not get their head round what it would be like to have one's dreams and potential of a great MMA future, taken away by a serious knee injury, caused by some Dick head holding on a lock after a tap, which incidentally is absolutely taboo in the fight world.

Incidentally I don't know what turned my stomach more, him not letting go of the submission hold. Or his vomit inducingly smug, skin crawlingly corrupt and disgusting crediting of God as his inspiration. Total ayhole cheat wanker.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

They are just protecting GSP!

Now we will never know exactly how the Tree Stump would go about wrecking the WW division. GSP would be passing the torch come next year me thinks. 

WAR PALHARES :fight02:

FUTURE CHAMP OF SOMEWHERE! :thumbsup:


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## Bison (Jan 7, 2013)

Killz said:


> It's astounding that people keep making excuses and defending this guy. All of the evidence is there and not even his own manager is complaining about the cut and is even suggesting Palhares needs therapy.
> 
> Give it up. The guy is a dirtbag and was rightfully cut.


I don't necessarily think the guy is a dirtbag per se but he's simply too unintelligent to fight at this level and as we've seen it can be very dangerous. The guy can barely speak Portuguese let alone understand a lick of English. Even guys like Thiago Silva and Shogun who speak virtually no English themselves at least understand the universal rules for MMA. Palhares honestly seems like he doesn't understand body language or simple commands. It's really quite astounding.

I'm not defending the guy and I'm glad he got cut. He's far too much of a liability for the UFC and probably wouldn't advance very far anyway. He should take the money he's earned in the UFC and invest in getting some basic education with a private tutor. 

Palhares might be stupid but I don't think he's a bad person.


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## Anteries (Oct 22, 2010)

Bison said:


> I don't necessarily think the guy is a dirtbag per se but he's simply too unintelligent to fight at this level and as we've seen it can be very dangerous. The guy can barely speak Portuguese let alone understand a lick of English. Even guys like Thiago Silva and Shogun who speak virtually no English themselves at least understand the universal rules for MMA. Palhares honestly seems like he doesn't understand body language or simple commands. It's really quite astounding.
> 
> I'm not defending the guy and I'm glad he got cut. He's far too much of a liability for the UFC and probably wouldn't advance very far anyway. He should take the money he's earned in the UFC and invest in getting some basic education with a private tutor.
> 
> might be stupid but I don't think he's a bad person.



it's a sort of awkward a grey area, because if he saw himself as a macho bad ass that got off on intimidating people with the fear of permanent injurythen I don't think he would admit it, I think he would probably try to act innocent. 

On a separate note, I think the supporters of Palharesare generally young guys who view the fighters with a degree that they are expendable human cock fighters.

I'd like to ask a straight up question, most people here are into sports. Would you roll with Palhares on the mat? If you would be happy to get your knee ripped then support this guy. If you wouldn't, then how could anyone support him.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

It was a dick move. Pierce is out six months because of this. The dude is an asshole. This might not have looked so bad if he didn't have a history of this type of shit, but he does, so **** him.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Like Dana White and other shrug off judging and say "don't let sit in the hands of the judges". 

I will say: "don't get ankle locked". 


Also, is there a report on what was damaged? 6 months?


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Like Dana White and other shrug off judging and say "don't let sit in the hands of the judges".
> 
> I will say: "don't get ankle locked".
> 
> ...


I just saw the medical suspensions list on mmamania.com. It wasn't specific.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

joshua7789 said:


> I just saw the medical suspensions list on mmamania.com. It wasn't specific.


Most likely just a precaution and he can return when he's cleared with an mri.

Edit: just read it, that's exactly what it is. A lot of guys get that exact thing, this isn't special.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## kney (Jan 16, 2012)

I don't see why this is any different than punching an unconcious opponent until the ref stops it...


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

As the other poster pointed out. Who here (looking at the Palhares supporters) would feel comfortable rolling on the mat with this guy at the gym?

If your answer is no, then please, stop supporting and arguing his case.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

kney said:


> I don't see why this is any different than punching an unconcious opponent until the ref stops it...


I think it is laughable that we have pages and pages of guys getting up in arms about this. Yet after a guy pounds on a defenseless and unconscious fighter 3 or 4 times it gets no reaction? Refs each card literally have to DRAG a guy off a guy who is beating on a KO'd fighter. 

Perhaps the ref should have pulled Palhares off him. Like he would have if it was a TKO/KO situation.

I do understand his history. And being popped for elevated testosterone certainly doesn't help his cause. But the situation in a vacuum? It is a double standard.

UFC will show HIGHLIGHTS of a guy getting his head pounded in without any ability to defend himself. Yet they are going to pretend like they are big on fighter safety first and will act like Palhares is a bad guy. :confused03:


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

kney said:


> I don't see why this is any different than punching an unconcious opponent until the ref stops it...


It isn't if the opponent is actually KO'ed. The problem is that usually these late punches are in TKO situations which it has to be up to the ref to step in.

There have only ever been a handful of strikes to clearly KO'ed individuals that I can think of. The main one that comes to mind was Henderson vs Bisping and imo Henderson probably should have faced some sort of repercussion for that. 

How many times have we seen a fighter hold onto a submission for too long though? And how many times was that fighter not named Palhares...


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I think it is laughable that we have pages and pages of guys getting up in arms about this. Yet after a guy pounds on a defenseless and unconscious fighter 3 or 4 times it gets no reaction? Refs each card literally have to DRAG a guy off a guy who is beating on a KO'd fighter.
> 
> Perhaps the ref should have pulled Palhares off him. Like he would have if it was a TKO/KO situation.
> 
> ...


It's quite a bit different with hitting a guy after they've been KO'd. As we've seen with countless fighters, some times people completely face plant (nick diaz paul daley springs to mind), but then find a way to recover in the blink of an eye and regain composure. 

With a submission like Palhares' heel hook, if he keeps cranking, that ankle is going to be ripped in half and his opponent is going to be immobile and obviously unable to continue, or barely even move.

I think a lot of guys carry on hitting after their opponent hits the deck is because they don't want to stop hitting them, then by the time the ref comes over, the other guy is off the floor and recovering and ready to fire back, it can happen that quickly as we've seen it so many times in this sport. You think a guy is out, then bam, he's back up and he's the one landing a KO (Kongo/Barry).

How ever, there are odd occasions where there is some bad blood between opponents and they clearly just carry on hitting them out of malice with the adrenaline pumping - Rampage/Wand, Hendo/Bisping.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

I wouldn't want to get in a fist fight Cigano, but I support him.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

VolcomX311 said:


> I wouldn't want to get in a fist fight Cigano, but I support him.


Purposefully misinterpreting the quote. Sparring with a guy like JDS, at least you know he's not looking to beat the living hell out of you, KO you and purposefully cause you serious harm.

Rolling on the mat is also completely different to sparring boxing/striking in the ring. On the mat, sparring partners are not looking to snap limbs or choke people out, so the likely hood of a fighter actually getting hurt badly during a rolling session is significantly less likely than getting accidentally KO'd in a striking session.

This discussion is about intent, and Palhares intent during fights and apparently in training camps is very clear - he's looking to really cause some one serious harm. That same sick intent is not present with fighters like JDS and the vast majority of other professional fighters.


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## Roki977 (Jul 13, 2011)

I am glad they cut him. It was clear that he dont know when to stop and this is not his first time. That can be huge damage and can end someone carrier. He to dangerous and not very clear in his head and his place is not in octagon. Retard..


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> I'd much rather be flash KO'd than have my heel ripped in half whilst lying on the floor in excruciating pain. This is entirely subjective and irrelevant to the discussion at hand though.
> 
> This is a sport, a competition with rules and safety regulations, not a drunken bar fight where any thing goes. You may see the opponent across the cage from you as an "enemy"and that's fine, what ever pumps you up, but you also need to remember that he is also a competitor, competing in a sporting competition with rules and regulations to permit fighter safety.
> 
> ...


You really wouldn't each KO you get is one step closer to you being punch drunk and it becomes easier and easier to be KO'd every time it happens, and if you get huge after shots like wandy did and bisping did, you can't ever recover from that.


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## Jumanji (Mar 30, 2011)

My first thought when I saw the leglock wasn't Paul Harris holding on too long, it was damn that ref is a moron.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Jumanji said:


> My first thought when I saw the leglock wasn't Paul Harris holding on too long, it was damn that ref is a moron.


The ref was contacting Rousimar's body at like three different points from the moment he jumped in, even if we believe he had his eyes closed and was pretending he was in Shangri-La getting massages from pygmis, he had to have know there was some third party trying to stop the action. 

Ref shouldn't have to scream in PH's face to get him to stop. PH just didn't want to.


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I think it is laughable that we have pages and pages of guys getting up in arms about this. Yet after a guy pounds on a defenseless and unconscious fighter 3 or 4 times it gets no reaction? Refs each card literally have to DRAG a guy off a guy who is beating on a KO'd fighter.
> 
> Perhaps the ref should have pulled Palhares off him. Like he would have if it was a TKO/KO situation.
> 
> ...


This right here. Plus Palhares held for 1-2 seconds longer, and lets not forget the ref was laying on him, so he couldn't just get up, he let go of the lock when the ref was on him.


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## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

Trix said:


>


Look at the gif carefully. He knows it's over but keeps yanking even more which could very well mean trashed ligaments. Exactly why he does it isn't really relevant - he's a repeat offender and too much of a liability. 

This doesn't change even if some of you cry hypocrisy. A previous fault doesn't make this right. Furthermore there are many I'm sure who would have liked to see some sort of penalties for at least Rampage and Henderson.


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## JASONJRF (Nov 3, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> Frank Mir did it *once*.


The fight wasnt called that was the refs fault because he stood there looking at it instead of breaking it up not the same thing at all not even close.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

It's official that he held the hold for 1.3 seconds after Pierce tapped. Not exactly worthy of a lifetime ban, considering he had been trained by a guy who had to submit someone twice in a UFC fight to win it. 

My feeling is that this DW decision will be overturned down the line.


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

DonRifle said:


> It's official that he held the hold for 1.3 seconds after Pierce tapped. Not exactly worthy of a lifetime ban, considering he had been trained by a guy who had to submit someone twice in a UFC fight to win it.
> 
> My feeling is that this DW decision will be overturned down the line.


I hope it gets overturned


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## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

DonRifle said:


> It's official that he held the hold for *1.3 seconds after Pierce tapped*. Not exactly worthy of a lifetime ban, considering he had been trained by a guy who had to submit someone twice in a UFC fight to win it.
> 
> My feeling is that this DW decision will be overturned down the line.


That is obvious bull. Use a timer and look for yourself. Maybe 1.3 seconds after the ref start to push him but he taps for close to 3 seconds. It's all the time you need to damage a joint. 

So what, he should be given a free card to keep yanking after the ref calls it because Big Jon screwed up at ufc 37? He should make sure the ref sees the tap and calls it but honestly he doesn't seem to have the mental capabilities to be able to do that. Or he doesn't care. As he apparently has been injuring people in practice perhaps it's a bit of both.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Can't believe someones trying to justify Palhares here. He's been recorded to do stuff like this several times, it was time to let that moron go.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

AJClark said:


> And here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like the way that anyone and EVERYONE defending Paul Harris has just completely ignored this. 

I ask those that are in his favour and on his side to please, please defend this and explain why this was and accident or whatever.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Nomale said:


> That is obvious bull. Use a timer and look for yourself. Maybe 1.3 seconds after the ref start to push him but he taps for close to 3 seconds. It's all the time you need to damage a joint.
> 
> So what, he should be given a free card to keep yanking after the ref calls it because Big Jon screwed up at ufc 37? He should make sure the ref sees the tap and calls it but honestly he doesn't seem to have the mental capabilities to be able to do that. Or he doesn't care. As he apparently has been injuring people in practice perhaps it's a bit of both.


Well I am quoting Meltzer on the 1.3seconds, so it has to be true!!!

I think Pal held on too long, but I've seen worse for sure, and the ref f'ing up also adds to the situation. Overall I would give him another chance. 

And yes if I were a pro fighter and my career was on the line, I would make sure the dude had tapped and the ref knew it too before I would release. It happened before 37 as well. Go back to Chael v Silva too and although it never happened in the end there was some sort of initial denial by chael that he had tapped although he conceded a few seconds later.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

AJClark said:


> I like the way that anyone and EVERYONE defending Paul Harris has just completely ignored this.
> 
> I ask those that are in his favour and on his side to please, please defend this and explain why this was and accident or whatever.


Maybe they should use a video ref to confirm a tap, so the fighter can be comfortable to release once he knows the guys has tapped, and in the situation where the ref f's up and are too slow. 
Looks to me like he is closing is his eyes and is going into some sort of zone when he locks on that submission. I think he cant help it, its the way he was taught to do it. I mean he is not glorifying it like Babalu did.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> Looks to me like he is closing is his eyes and is going into some sort of zone when he locks on that submission. I think he cant help it, its the way he was taught to do it. I mean he is not glorifying it like Babalu did.


I agree. I dont think hes doing anything consciously. However, in his line of work he needs to learn to be concious in those moments. If he cant ( which seems to be the case ) then he shouldn't be fighting. It's sad for him, but tough luck. He needs to learn to control himself.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> I agree. I dont think hes doing anything consciously. However, in his line of work he needs to learn to be concious in those moments. If he cant ( which seems to be the case ) then he shouldn't be fighting. It's sad for him, but tough luck. He needs to learn to control himself.


True he does need to adapt to fit todays rules. I have my doubts whether he is capable of doing that from what we know of him. 
What I see happening is Bellator signing him up, at ww he surely has a good chance to become champ. If he can go on a run and show some progress in releasing earlier he should get another run in the UFC. A lot of if's though!


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Palhares would have been the guy to dethrone GSP. No wonder UFC wants no part of him. Can't market a simple man who is autistic.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

For this particular offence, I see the release as a blatant overreaction. He hardly held on for that long, and the referee could have done a better job. But when you consider his history, I completely understand the UFC's decision. You have to look at his transgressions in their entirety.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

I 100% believe Palhares is a little slow and is being discriminated against by his employers. This has happened at least 10-15 times in the UFC with late hits and hold.

Dan Henderson could have literally given Bisping brain damage with that late unnecessary bomb to the laid out chin of Mike (who is already in la la land).

I think everyone knows Dana plays favorites and gets caught up in the moment. I have always thought he gives the majority of Brazilian fighters the shaft since he doesn't need to market as hard to their fan-base. (They already love MMA)

Who really knows...


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Soojooko said:


> I agree. I dont think hes doing anything consciously. However, in his line of work he needs to learn to be concious in those moments. If he cant ( which seems to be the case ) then he shouldn't be fighting. It's sad for him, but tough luck. He needs to learn to control himself.


If he can't figure out when to release a hold, how is he training? Does he just cripple a different training partner every day? Surely we would've heard about it by now.

Or maybe he does know when to release a hold, and is just a giant douche.


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## kney (Jan 16, 2012)

Now these kind of videos pop up


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

AJClark said:


> And here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The way Palhares pulls his hands up into the air and has such a blank look on his face makes me think he goes into a whole other world when trying to finish a submission. Such a weird guy, from the how he reacted to Marquardt slipping out of a leg lock to him jumping on the cage thinking he had won vs Miller. 

Either way, he is extremely dangerous... and never seems to learn. I think the UFC is right in kicking him out.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Sports_Nerd said:


> If he can't figure out when to release a hold, how is he training? Does he just cripple a different training partner every day? Surely we would've heard about it by now.
> 
> Or maybe he does know when to release a hold, and is just a giant douche.


OR

It is a FIGHT. With adrenaline. And the will to finish a fight. With a crowd screaming. And he has had a fight where he stopped fighting prematurely.

Fighting competition something you and others probably have ZERO experience in. Yet want to bash him all up and down.


----------



## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

kney said:


> Now these kind of videos pop up


Yes, it's barely more than a second. It just seems so long, because Pierce doesn't make the usual double tap, but frantically taps which isn't seen often and the ref needs so long to stop the fight. It's really more the refs fault than Palhares'.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

DonRifle said:


> True he does need to adapt to fit todays rules. I have my doubts whether he is capable of doing that from what we know of him.
> What I see happening is Bellator signing him up, at ww he surely has a good chance to become champ. If he can go on a run and show some progress in releasing earlier he should get another run in the UFC. A lot of if's though!


Bjorn has said Bellator has no interest in signing him, citing fighter safety concerns.

Sent from Verticalsports.com App


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> OR
> 
> It is a FIGHT. With adrenaline. And the will to finish a fight. With a crowd screaming. And he has had a fight where he stopped fighting prematurely.
> 
> Fighting competition something you and others probably have ZERO experience in. Yet want to bash him all up and down.


The same fight, adrenaline, will to finish and crowd screaming that every other fighter has to deal with. And yet, how often are subs held on too long in modern UFC history?


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> The same fight, adrenaline, will to finish and crowd screaming that every other fighter has to deal with. And yet, how often are subs held on too long in modern UFC history?


This.

jonnyg4508 generally just likes to go against the grain, regardless of how ridiculous his rants are. A rebel without a cause, and usually without a valid point either.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> The same fight, adrenaline, will to finish and crowd screaming that every other fighter has to deal with. And yet, how often are subs held on too long in modern UFC history?


And I'm sure a RNC has been held an extra second many times before.

We are talking 1 second from when the ref touches Palhares.



Rygu said:


> This.
> 
> jonnyg4508 generally just likes to go against the grain, regardless of how ridiculous his rants are. A rebel without a cause, and usually without a valid point either.


I am in love with you. You are the cutest.


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> OR
> 
> It is a FIGHT. With adrenaline. And the will to finish a fight. With a crowd screaming. And he has had a fight where he stopped fighting prematurely.
> 
> Fighting competition something you and others probably have ZERO experience in. Yet want to bash him all up and down.


It's not a fight though, it's a combat sport. If, with adrenaline, and the crowd screaming and all other conditions that are applicable every single time Palhares can't tell the difference, than he may not be a giant douchebag, but the only correct thing to do is to suspend him indefinitely. Because he's mentally incapable of competing according to the rules.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Sports_Nerd said:


> It's not a fight though, it's a combat sport. If, with adrenaline, and the crowd screaming and all other conditions that are applicable every single time Palhares can't tell the difference, than he may not be a giant douchebag, but the only correct thing to do is to suspend him indefinitely. Because he's mentally incapable of competing according to the rules.


The ref should be suspended as well too then...

Was bad reffing.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I think Paul thoroughly enjoyed his reputation and eagerly cultivated it. ...until now.

I also think if he were given another chance it would never happen again. Because it was always intentional.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Palhares' coach at BTT felt the need to employ a psychiatrist because of his brutality in training. Says it all really.

If you consistently hurt people in training, it'll be no different in competition. Some guys pride themselves on 'going hard' etc, but some guys do enjoy injuring. Seems Palhares is one of them, and I have no time for him.


----------



## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

Joabbuac said:


> *The way Palhares pulls his hands up into the air* and has such a blank look on his face makes me think he goes into a whole other world when trying to finish a submission. Such a weird guy, from the how he reacted to Marquardt slipping out of a leg lock to him jumping on the cage thinking he had won vs Miller.
> 
> Either way, he is extremely dangerous... and never seems to learn. I think the UFC is right in kicking him out.


I agree with your sentiment but the way he throws out his arms looks like acted innocence to me. Like "I didn't do it" or "it was like this when I got here". If it's just a zone thing how come he doesn't show the least interest at all to see if the screaming guy is ok?

Even Ken Shamrock looked like that when he twisted a guy's ankle a full 180. To all you guys debating the time here, Ken doesn't even gave that opponent any chance to tap at all. Or the ref to call it. And so should be a completely sportmanlike behaviour to you then? 







oldfan said:


> I think Paul thoroughly enjoyed his reputation and eagerly cultivated it. ...until now.
> 
> I also think if he were given another chance it would never happen again. Because it was always intentional.


Why do I feel like you speak the thruth like some sort of oracle? Must be that awesome avatar..


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

John8204 said:


> On one hand it sucks on the other hand Palhares is going to be an awesome addition to WSOF or Bellator.


I wonder if anyone will pick him up. If this was just a one-time thing like Daley, sure, other promotions would jump on him. But this guy is just sadistic. I don't think I've ever seen one of his fights were he didn't crank it after the tap. 

I think other promotions would do well to blacklist him, to make sure another fool doesn't get something like this in his head. And fortunately, he's not a great of a loss to MMA, though he's probably the best leglocker in game. That's a little disappointing.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Calminian said:


> I wonder if anyone will pick him up. If this was just a one-time thing like Daley, sure, other promotions would jump on him. But this guy is just sadistic. I don't think I've ever seen one of his fights were he didn't crank it after the tap.
> 
> I think other promotions would do well to blacklist him, to make sure another fool doesn't get something like this in his head. And fortunately, he's not a great of a loss to MMA, though he's probably the best leglocker in game. That's a little disappointing.


Rebney agrees with UFC's decison.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Yeah I just noticed that. 

WE DON'T WANT HIM EITHER
... Says Bellator CEO


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

It would be for the best if absolutely every mainstream MMA outlet rejected him. Might teach the psychopath a lesson.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

In continuation with this thread here's a video of R.P. apologizing to Dana and Mike Pierce. If you were Dana White what would your decision be.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

The difference between hitting someone after they are knocked out *before* the ref calls it, and holding on to a sub *after* the ref called it is pretty clear and large.

You have to fight until the ref calls it, if the ref has not called the fight then it's your job to keep going. If a fighter has a guy pinned down against the cage throwing bombs on him and the ref jumps in and says stop/tries to pull you off/gets in the way of the fight, yet you *still* keep throwing shots, then that's a problem. If, however, you drop a guy with a clean shot to the jaw, it's perfectly okay to follow up with more shots until the ref jumps in, he could wake up when he lands, he might not be 100% out, your perception of how hurt he is might be off, you don't know - the fight is still going until it is called by the ref.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> In continuation with this thread here's a video of R.P. apologizing to Dana and Mike Pierce. If you were Dana White what would your decision be.


I was watching thinking I was going to see an apology, but he confirmed that he felt he did nothing wrong. From this alone, I would have to cut him, being he has no idea what he's been doing wrong all this time. It means he's either stupid or stubborn. Either one, is not a good defense. 

I was really hoping the guy would have admitted fault, and admitted he let his emotions take over, but instead he said it's just a case of everyone misinterpreting what happened. 

Unfortunately, the guy needs to learn a very hard life lesson.


----------



## Anteries (Oct 22, 2010)

If Rousimar Palhares is trying to make out he is misunderstood, maybe a little autistic as he and some on this forum are trying to make out, that is the worst possible excuse to have. At least admitting to be a macho sadistic bastard who is trying to make people fear him is believable and more importantly rational. Being a likeable guy with mental problems, who "doesn't get it" is the real nail in the Coffin to his career. That is really frightening.


I'd also be curious to know about his suspension for taking peds, did God tell him to take them, or did his trainers tell him they were sweets, innocent goodhearted fellow that he is. (That last sentence has a lot of sarcasm in it by the way)


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## Walter (Jun 22, 2009)

I loved watching him fight, he's a leg lock magician. But safety comes first and Palhares was either a duche or too stupid to not injure people.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

You won't be missed.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> It would be for the best if absolutely every mainstream MMA outlet rejected him. Might teach the psychopath a lesson.


Yeah and while we are at it lets cut every aggressive and interesting fighter on the roster because oh think of the children and not only that let's ban leg locks and heel hooks and not only let's rename it the UWC the ultimate whining championship.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

I didn't realize it was only 1.8 seconds, this is a contact sport where guys are in the heat of the moment. You have to let fighters fight.

Also what's troubling to hear is that the UFC and GSP are now in a bit of a kerfuffle so I'm starting to think Bellator and the UFC are colluding to eliminate grappling and wrestling from the sport.


----------



## Bison (Jan 7, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Yeah and while we are at it lets cut every aggressive and interesting fighter on the roster because oh think of the children and not only that let's ban leg locks and heel hooks and not only let's rename it the UWC the ultimate whining championship.


No disrespect but it's not about being "interesting" or "unique".
This isn't WWE, flair doesn't matter (no pun intended). This is a real combat sport where you could seriously injure someone if you don't follow the set principles. Palhares is a flight risk. He's a multiple offender and obviously doesn't have the mental capacity to compete at the highest level of the sport. You saw his "apology" video. He clearly thinks he is innocent even though there is clear evidence to suggest that he isn't.

By the way, leglocks aside, how was Palhares "interesting"?


----------



## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm kinda pissed they cut him, it's a combat sport, every second of the fight stands to injure either fighter. I'm hoping this isn't the beginning of a trend to water down the sport.

Guess Pierce is back to facebook fights, good riddance.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Yeah and while we are at it lets cut every aggressive and interesting fighter on the roster because oh think of the children and not only that let's ban leg locks and heel hooks and not only let's rename it the UWC the ultimate whining championship.


What a massive leap and gross exaggeration of the point I was trying to make. Apply some logic please.

@Purgetheweak, the irony in your sig is remarkable. There is no honour in beating a defenceless man who has absolutely nothing left to give. There is how ever, honour in recognising when your opponent is defeated and deciding to stop attacking him. That's what real honour is.

@John. Are you implying that the UFC want to get rid of GSP? - One of their main draws, all because they cut a repeated offender and recently Okami? Now they're gunning for GSP? Watch out Velasquez, lose against Dos Santos and you could be next on the hit list...


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Bison said:


> No disrespect but it's not about being "interesting" or "unique".
> This isn't WWE, flair doesn't matter (no pun intended). This is a real combat sport where you could seriously injure someone if you don't follow the set principles. Palhares is a flight risk. He's a multiple offender and obviously doesn't have the mental capacity to compete at the highest level of the sport. You saw his "apology" video. He clearly thinks he is innocent even though there is clear evidence to suggest that he isn't.


He held onto it for 1.7 seconds at most big whoop. Mike Pierce was even tapping onto the dumb ref instead of palhares for a bit. You're right this is a real sport, which is why it should have brutal character's instead of making a joke of itself by continually cutting good and dangerous fighters. You are telling me you can't get herb dean or big john to ref his matches so there is no problem?


----------



## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> He held onto it for 1.7 seconds at most big whoop. Mike Pierce was even tapping onto the dumb ref instead of palhares for a bit. You're right this is a real sport, which is why it should have brutal character's instead of making a joke of itself by continually cutting good and dangerous fighters. You are telling me you can't get herb dean or big john to ref his matches so there is no problem?


You're ignoring the mountain of evidence against Palhares in other fights in the UFC and even in fights before he joined the UFC. You're also ignoring that Palhares is notorious for holding onto submissions for too long in the gym and even injuring partners. This is from his own coaches mouth.

Connect the dots and apply some basic logic, this man is clearly mentally unfit to be competing in MMA's biggest organisation, and given his track record and reputation at the gym, it would only be a matter of time before he seriously hurt some one in the octagon with his antics.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> You're ignoring the mountain of evidence against Palhares in other fights in the UFC and even in fights before he joined the UFC. You're also ignoring that Palhares is notorious for holding onto submissions for too long in the gym and even injuring partners. This is from his own coaches mouth.
> 
> Connect the dots and apply some basic logic, this man is clearly mentally unfit to be competing in MMA's biggest organisation, and given his track record and reputation at the gym, it would only be a matter of time before he seriously hurt some one in the octagon with his antics.


Well clearly you can't read between the lines because palhares left bustamantes camp BEFORE the fight so obviously he was gonna go down the bitter path and his opinion and words don't have nay significance now that he is the former coach. If he was current then he would have some validity but now he is just the bitter former coach.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> @John. Are you implying that the UFC want to get rid of GSP? - One of their main draws, all because they cut a repeated offender and recently Okami? Now they're gunning for GSP? Watch out Velasquez, lose against Dos Santos and you could be next on the hit list...


And the dozen other grapplers they've dumped this year 90% of whom did not truly "wash out" of the UFC by falling down the ladder but rather losing one or two fights against high level competition or other wrestlers.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

The problem I see is that Pierce tapped immediately after the hold was applied. I have no doubt he did this because of the reputation Palhares has for not releasing holds.

What if Pierce tried to fight out of it and refrained from tapping until the last possible moment? That extra second of applying pressure would have snapped something.

This isn't like Mir vs Nog, where the pressure was applied gradually and Frank was in full control. Palhares aims to damage on purpose.

I don't know what happens to Palhares when he locks a hold in, it could be low IQ or Red Mist... I don't know. But I do know once he locks a hold on its full of bad intention.

Given the fact its not the first time it happened, he had to go. You cannot risk the future of your fighters as an organisation over one lose cannon he doesn't have the fight IQ to realise when the fight is over.

It sucks, because he's entertaining and his leg locks are thing of beauty. Unfortunately you can't train intelligence.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> You're ignoring the mountain of evidence against Palhares in other fights in the UFC and even in fights before he joined the UFC.


He may have a history, but why then cut him this time, when he actually didn't hold the heel hook for too long:



kney said:


> Now these kind of videos pop up


It's barely more than just a second that he releases the hold after the ref intervenes. It's really rather the ref's fault to intervene too slow. Palhares lets go "in time" after the fight is officially stopped.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Voiceless said:


> He may have a history, but why then cut him this time, when he actually didn't hold the heel hook for too long:
> 
> 
> 
> It's barely more than just a second that he releases the hold after the ref intervenes. It's really rather the ref's fault to intervene too slow. Palhares lets go "in time" after the fight is officially stopped.


I have rewatched the fight and, even being aprehensive about Palhares past and difficulty in controlling himself, I have to say he didn't hold that much this time specially checking on this timed video.

Plus, how come Palhares has been released while the fight officially is a legit win? If at least the result would be reverted to Pierce or declared a NC. :dunno:


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

I think you've both lost your minds. I was yelling at the TV for him to let go. The moment the tap came he instinctively cranked harder, and it took a full 2 seconds for him to let go even after the ref was laying on them yelling at him to quit.

Plus you'll notice Palhares was tapped on his own hip. He knew the fight was over. Right after the tap you'll notice he really started cranking and looked away from the ref. 

Frankly this one was so bad, it warranted him being cut even if it was the only incidence. You're defending a true mad man.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Plus, how come Palhares has been released while the fight officially is a legit win? If at least the result would be reverted to Pierce or declared a NC. :dunno:


The UFC cut him. The Brazilian commission makes the latter decision. Separate entities.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

John8204 said:


> And the dozen other grapplers they've dumped this year 90% of whom did not truly "wash out" of the UFC by falling down the ladder but rather losing one or two fights against high level competition or other wrestlers.


But GSP is their number one ppv draw...:dunno:


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## DanTheJu (Mar 3, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Plus, how come Palhares has been released while the fight officially is a legit win? If at least the result would be reverted to Pierce or declared a NC. :dunno:


The fight was over once the ref called it. The submission was held AFTER the fight was over so there is NO REASON to change the result. The only time a fight result is ever changed is when a fighter is found to have cheated during the fight (drugs or greasing or the such)


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Calminian said:


> I think you've both lost your minds. I was yelling at the TV for him to let go. The moment the tap came he instinctively cranked harder, and it took a full 2 seconds for him to let go even after the ref was laying on them yelling at him to quit.
> 
> Plus you'll notice Palhares was tapped on his own hip. He knew the fight was over. Right after the tap you'll notice he really started cranking and looked away from the ref.
> 
> Frankly this one was so bad, it warranted him being cut even if it was the only incidence. You're defending a true mad man.


Pierce's tapping doesn't stop the fight, the referee stops the fight (There've been enough fighters who later denied a tap). And how can you say it took a full 2 seconds for Palhares to let go when the video evidence I quoted shows it's merely 1.08 seconds which by no stretch is a long time span for letting go a submission. It's clearly the refs fault to jump in late after Pierce starts tapping. That's what made you feel that it took so long until the submission was released.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

I can tell you one guy who would not like to face Palhares is GSP. I bet his knee gets sore just looking at a palhares fight.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> I can tell you one guy who would not like to face Palhares is GSP. I bet his knee gets sore just looking at a palhares fight.


I highly.... highly doubt that.

Harris wouldn't get GSP to the ground. If Belcher and Marquart could avoid the sub, I'm sure GSP could.

Harris isn't even remotely on GSP level. :laugh: at even the thought of people mentioning that fight.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

DanTheJu said:


> The fight was over once the ref called it. The submission was held AFTER the fight was over so there is NO REASON to change the result. The only time a fight result is ever changed is when a fighter is found to have cheated during the fight (drugs or greasing or the such)


Thanks, man. That was a good explanation. :thumbsup:



DonRifle said:


> I can tell you one guy who would not like to face Palhares is GSP. I bet his knee gets sore just looking at a palhares fight.





PheelGoodInc said:


> I highly.... highly doubt that.
> 
> Harris wouldn't get GSP to the ground. If Belcher and Marquart could avoid the sub, I'm sure GSP could.
> 
> Harris isn't even remotely on GSP level. :laugh: at even the thought of people mentioning that fight.


DonRifle is right here. It doesn't matter the fact GSP is a much better fighter. Anybody knows how deadly Palhares is with that one trick lock and :laugh: at anybody believing GSP wouldn't be highly concerned about his year off plus knee going to face him.

Don't forget Palhares doesn't necessarily need to take someone down to sink that lock.


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> DonRifle is right here. It doesn't matter the fact GSP is a much better fighter. Anybody knows how deadly Palhares is with that one trick lock and :laugh: at anybody believing GSP wouldn't be highly concerned about his year off plus knee going to face him.
> 
> Don't forget Palhares doesn't necessarily need to take someone down to sink that lock.


Facts are, Paul is rubbish against any fighter near the top 10. In MMA competition, he's never subbed anybody of any note whatsoever. As much as I dont want that to be true, it is what it is. GSP would shut Harris down.


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

When I look at Palhares, all I see is Simple Jack. This isn't his first time doing this. Palhares being cut is well deserved.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Soojooko said:


> Facts are, *Paul is rubbish against any fighter near the top 10*. In MMA competition, he's never subbed anybody of any note whatsoever. As much as I dont want that to be true, it is what it is. GSP would shut Harris down.


*I am not discussing this*. What I am saying is *no way GSP wouldn't be concerned about Palhares signature move*. Specially being a smart fighter, great strategist, who had his knee busted for a long time. If you believe he wouldn't be concerned about that, I can't argue about anything else in this matter, man.


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

As others have already stated - this isn't an isolated incident. UFC must not have liked him very much to begin with since they kicked his ass out without hesitation as opposed to giving him a fine + suspension (which I think would have been more than fair). 

By the way, how in god's name did this jacked gorilla make 170?! 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> *I am not discussing this*. What I am saying is *no way GSP wouldn't be concerned about Palhares signature move*. Specially being a smart fighter, great strategist, who had his knee busted for a long time. If you believe he wouldn't be concerned about that, I can't argue about anything else in this matter, man.


GSP is concerned about everything. If he were to fight a ten year old who gives good noogies, he'd be discussing how to avoid it with John Danaher and Greg Jackson looking over tape in a dark room.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Facts are, Paul is rubbish against any fighter near the top 10. In MMA competition, he's never subbed anybody of any note whatsoever. As much as I dont want that to be true, it is what it is. GSP would shut Harris down.


Im not so sure about that at WW. He's a mega powerful guy at that weight, and doesnt have the height disadvantage he had at MW. I would say GSP is probably one of the few guys in the top ten that could handle him easily because of his jab. But if I were GSP and was fighting the best leglock guy in the world I would be shitting myself knowing that this guy can end my career in a heartbeat and a very uncomfortable retirement after that. One slip could do it. Step into the ring long enough and shit happens no matter who you are.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> Im not so sure about that at WW. He's a mega powerful guy at that weight, and doesnt have the height disadvantage he had at MW. I would say GSP is probably one of the few guys in the top ten that could handle him easily because of his jab. But if I were GSP and was fighting the best leglock guy in the world I would be shitting myself knowing that this guy can end my career in a heartbeat and a very uncomfortable retirement after that. One slip could do it. Step into the ring long enough and shit happens no matter who you are.


He isn't that good. He is a one trick pony that has gotten his ass handed to him everytime he stepped up in competition (Lombard, Henderson, Marquardt, even Belcher completely owned him). Also note two of those guys that beat him are now at WW.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

joshua7789 said:


> He isn't that good. He is a one trick pony that has gotten his ass handed to him everytime he stepped up in competition (Lombard, Henderson, Marquardt, even Belcher completely owned him). Also note two of those guys that beat him are now at WW.


Not dismissing Palhares weird incidents and past behaviors, I wouldn't use Lombard fight as an example for anything because Palhares fractured his foot in the begining of that fight. That is an undeniable fact that impaired him for good that day.


----------



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Not dismissing Palhares weird incidents and past behaviors, I wouldn't use Lombard fight as an example for anything because Palhares fractured his foot in the begining of that fight. That is an undeniable fact that impaired him for good that day.


Belcher, Hendo, and Nate (I know it was weird, but Nate still KO'ed him) all still owned him.


----------



## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

joshua7789 said:


> He isn't that good. He is a one trick pony that has gotten his ass handed to him everytime he stepped up in competition (Lombard, Henderson, Marquardt, even Belcher completely owned him). Also note two of those guys that beat him are now at WW.


I think he had marquart locked up if he hadnt greased his legs. Belcher schooled him no doubt. He has loads holes in his game for sure, but even more so then say frank mir the danger to anyone he faces of his submissions always gives him a good chance to win the fight. 
You would have to think he has improved other parts of his game too just like everyone else. And hey Mike Pierce is no bum, people are looking past how fast that he destroyed him


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> I think he had marquart locked up if he hadnt greased his legs. Belcher schooled him no doubt. He has loads holes in his game for sure, but even more so then say frank mir the danger to anyone he faces of his submissions always gives him a good chance to win the fight.
> You would have to think he has improved other parts of his game too just like everyone else. And hey Mike Pierce is no bum, people are looking past how fast that he destroyed him


Pierce is good, but he fought a very stupid fight. Also, Marquardt didn't grease his legs, he had an intense pre fight workout so that he was already sweating when the fight began, it was perfectly legal.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Voiceless said:


> Pierce's tapping doesn't stop the fight, the referee stops the fight (There've been enough fighters who later denied a tap). And how can you say it took a full 2 seconds for Palhares to let go when the video evidence I quoted shows it's merely 1.08 seconds which by no stretch is a long time span for letting go a submission. It's clearly the refs fault to jump in late after Pierce starts tapping. That's what made you feel that it took so long until the submission was released.


And so you feel someone tap and then when they loosen up to submit crank harder? 

Most fighters if they get tapped will at last look to the ref and hold the submission in place. What Palhares did was start cranking after the tap and turn away from the ref. The sad truth is, he actually wants to hurt someone, and is looking for loopholes to do it. And guys like you are willing to enable him, though you're very far and few between. Luckily the mma promotions are not buying it.


----------



## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

Tiptup said:


> people seem quite uneducated on this subject. There is always a reason why someone hold on to a hold.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FohRibjEbgI
> 
> ...


Funny, I asked Royce about the Gordeau incident, and he told me he held the choke because Gordeau bit him and he was basically squaring things up.



Sports_Nerd said:


> When he feels the tap he should be looking for the ref. Stop making excuses for this psycho.


I am on the fence about this, but the first taps are light, then the ref blocks the harder taps with his back. Merely an observation.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Calminian said:


> The sad truth is, he actually wants to hurt someone,...


*The truth is you don't know the truth*, being this your best guess. I can't say for sure what goes inside Palhares head either, but I won't pretend I do like I am the boss. :confused02:


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> *The truth is you don't know the truth*, being this your best guess. I can't say for sure what goes inside Palhares head either, but I won't pretend I do like I am the boss. :confused02:


We might not know for sure, and maybe we shouldn't speak in definitive form, but we have a mountain of evidence with which to make an educated guess.

Sent from Verticalsports.com App


----------



## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> *The truth is you don't know the truth*, being this your best guess. I can't say for sure what goes inside Palhares head either, but I won't pretend I do like I am the boss. :confused02:


Well if he does ever make it back into a promotion, he's going to be looking for sparing partners just like you. :thumbsup:


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Calminian said:


> And so you feel someone tap and then when they loosen up to submit crank harder?
> 
> Most fighters if they get tapped will at last look to the ref and hold the submission in place. What Palhares did was start cranking after the tap and turn away from the ref.


He doesn't turn away from the ref to hide from the stoppage. What looks like him turning away is actually his body movement to finally get the heel hook locked in, because although Pierce and Palhares legs were knotted before, Palhares didn't have the heel hook locked in. Pierce's left leg is on Palhares' right side and for Palhares to get his arm behind Pierce's heel, he has to twist his body to his right. You can see that in the video I quoted.






The UFC clock starts 4:38. Until 4:34 Palhares is on his back and you can clearly see that he doesn't have the lock, so he turns to his right (4:34-4:33), Pierce starts to tap 4:31. The ref jumps in and makes contact with Palhares at 4:30. The timecode sets in an clocks the release at 00:00:01:08. It's by no means holding a submission for too long and there is no extra cranking.



> The sad truth is, he actually wants to [...]


As MMA-Sportsman said, noone here knows what he (or any fighter) really wants.

You are biased against Palhares, which is fine given his history, but it shouldn't cloud your judgement of the situation. On first glance it may look like a late release by Palhares, I thought so too when I first saw the fight, but after reviewing the situation several times, it is not. If there is anyone to blame, it's the ref.


----------



## Bison (Jan 7, 2013)

MMA-Sportsman, are you the living embodiment of the Brazilian excuse?


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I dont buy what his coaches are selling and dont even think his guilt is debatable. He obviously deserves disciplinary action but I think firing him was harsh.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Calminian said:


> Well if he does ever make it back into a promotion, he's going to be looking for sparing partners *just like you*. :thumbsup:


So, you know Palhares very well and you know me very well too, isn't it? Come on, man, this is not about me.



Bison said:


> MMA-Sportsman, are you the living embodiment of the Brazilian excuse?


You certainly don't know me, mister or you would never say something like that.
You certainly missed what I had to say about Palhares here:

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/141777-official-rousimar-palhares-vs-mike-pierce-thread-6.html#post2334969

It happened I re-watched this particular fight and *revised my POV* on Palhares blowing *this time*. I am often wrong but I am far from being an unfair person by will.

Anyway, you're pink for some reason. :wink01:


----------



## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Anyway, you're pink for some reason. :wink01:


breast cancer awareness month.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

hellholming said:


> breast cancer awareness month.


Nailed. How could I have missed that? :laugh:


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

To everyone saying that Rousimar does this on purpose, you're seriously grasping at straws. Does he do it? Yes. However you have absolutely no idea of his intentions. 

His coach said it, "Rousimar is simple" - If that was coming from someone as close as his coach, then the extent of his retardation would likely be uneclipsed by anyone else in MMA. 

At the moment Rousimar is on par with Filho towards the end of his career - mentally not all there but still a beast in the cage/ring. 

He has held submissions too long in the past but after watching the timed video, this really wasn't that bad and he certainly doesn't deserve to be cut for it, but then again this cut is coming from a guy who gives a guy a slap on the wrist for a joking tweet about *r*ape (Forrest), then fires another a month later for a *r*ape joke (Miguel) and then only one week later makes a *f*ucking *r*ape joke himself. 

Dana is a hypocritical tool, a walking contradiction and I just wish he'd retire already.

Also kudos to everyone mentioning guys literally being dragged off unconscious bodies in order for them to stop.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Murilo Bustamante has gone online saying Palhares repeatedly injures partners in training with his submissions...

...make of that what you will.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

CupCake said:


> Murilo Bustamante has gone online saying Palhares repeatedly injures partners in training with his submissions...
> 
> ...make of that what you will.


His camp says it was an issue in the past, but they worked on him and the problem in training is fixed.



> "I can attest to the fact that Rousimar is a very simple, humble and well-meaning person," Davis said. "This is not malice but instinct, nature of the beast.
> 
> "That said, we need to keep on working on it. Rousimar used to hurt people in training, but he has become very controlled now. Now we need to work on the fights, work on keeping him conscious rather than just automatic."


http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/145497-...malice-says-loss-bonus-enough-punishment.html


----------



## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Bustamante said this-



> "I can say this - nobody ever defended him as much as I did every time he made a mistake like this. In the beginning I thought it was because he was naive or had too much nervous energy during the fights.
> 
> "But then he caused a lot of incidents inside my academy during his camps and I changed my mind. I got tired of seeing how he hurts people so often when he is sparring, especially when he has a fight coming up. We used to argue every time it happened, so we argued a lot.
> 
> "That was a reason - together with his nonsense excuses every time he lost a fight - that our relationship started to get bitter. I actually hired a psychologist to help me with him but, as we have seen, it didn't work."


Doesn't sound resolved to me...


----------



## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

CupCake said:


> Bustamante said this-
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't sound resolved to me...


He's talking in past tense the whole time, but I guess that's cos Toquinho is no longer training with Murilo.


----------



## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Yeah I realise that, still outlines a history of that behaviour.

Dunno if it'd been discussed before on here, but found it interesting.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

CupCake said:


> Yeah I realise that, still outlines a history of that behaviour.
> 
> Dunno if it'd been discussed before on here, but found it interesting.


Yeah. Not sure if you read my post just above but Rousimar doing it in training only confirms my beliefs, why would he be malicious against his training partners? It's clearly a mental thing and the guy just isn't all there. It'll be a shame to see him go, if only he was born 20 years later so he'd be able to roll with human robots where he could actually do whatever he wanted. 

Actually they should just make a show and call it "Palhares versus", pit him against creatures and things that we've always wondered about. Like Palhares V a female gorilla or a sun bear.. I would watch.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

CupCake said:


> Yeah I realise that, still outlines a history of that behaviour.
> 
> Dunno if it'd been discussed before on here, but found it interesting.


Yes, he obviously has a questionable history in this regard, I guess no one denies this. And it wouldn't be a problem to take it into account had he hold on for too long in his last fight, BUT he didn't. Video evidence proves this.


----------



## MCMAP Wizzard (Feb 5, 2012)

Voiceless said:


> Yes, he obviously has a questionable history in this regard, I guess no one denies this. And it wouldn't be a problem to take it into account had he hold on for too long in his last fight, *BUT he didn't. Video evidence proves this.*


False


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

MCMAP Wizzard said:


> False


Did you watch the video. He held it 1 second after the ref intervened. Which is a lot shorter than others.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## MCMAP Wizzard (Feb 5, 2012)

Life B Ez said:


> Did you watch the video. He held it 1 second after the ref intervened. Which is a lot shorter than others.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I did, which is how I know the assertion is false. He held for a good 4-5 seconds after the opponent tapped. Finally this sociopath gets what he's had coming for years, good riddance I would think we can all agree.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

He still held on to an incredibly dangerous submission after referee intervention. The length isn't really that important. It only takes 1 second to throw another punch after the referee steps in, too. If there was no prior history this wouldn't be an issue.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

MCMAP Wizzard said:


> I did, which is how I know the assertion is false. He held for a good 4-5 seconds after the opponent tapped. Finally this sociopath gets what he's had coming for years, good riddance I would think we can all agree.


Very very few fighters let go of anything as soon as the other fighter taps and they don't have to either. The ref stops of the fight. If this had been an armbar no one would care.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## MCMAP Wizzard (Feb 5, 2012)

Life B Ez said:


> Very very few fighters let go of anything as soon as the other fighter taps and they don't have to either. The ref stops of the fight. If this had been an armbar no one would care.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Very few fighters feel the tap and then proceed to loosen it up only to crank it even harder. The dude's a piece o' crap and needs suicide.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Seems like there is a common trend out there right now where everyone wants to put the 2 douchebags of Paul Daley and Paul Harris vs eachother and see which one gets hurt.
The answer is obvious Daley would get dumped on his head and submitted in about 1 min.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

OU said:


> Seems like there is a common trend out there right now where everyone wants to put the 2 douchebags of Paul Daley and Paul Harris vs eachother and see which one gets hurt.
> The answer is obvious Daley would get dumped on his head and submitted in about 1 min.


I"d watch that. I'd love to see Paul scream and tap. Then get up on his one good leg and KO paul.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

oldfan said:


> I"d watch that. I'd love to see Paul scream and tap. Then get up on his one good leg and KO paul.


Now THAT would be a win for all.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

MCMAP Wizzard said:


> I did, which is how I know the assertion is false. He held for a good 4-5 seconds after the opponent tapped.


You obviously have NOT seen the video or have not understood what happened. I've just broken down the situation step by step the page before, using the given timecode. Feel free to try and disprove my breakdown and explain on the video how you get to those 5 seconds without bending reality.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

OU said:


> Seems like there is a common trend out there right now where everyone wants to put the 2 douchebags of Paul Daley and Paul Harris vs eachother and see which one gets hurt.
> The answer is obvious Daley would get dumped on his head and submitted in about 1 min.


Nah, Semtex would KO that guy in less than 1 min.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

AJClark said:


> Nah, Semtex would KO that guy in less than 1 min.


Daley has been embarrassed by far less capable grapplers. I don't think he stands much of a chance outside of bathing in grease.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

OU said:


> Daley has been embarrassed by far less capable grapplers. I don't think he stands much of a chance outside of bathing in grease.


Sans Koscheck, Shields 'n' Healy (two of which are far more capable), who? 

If Lombard, Belcher and Marquardt can jack him, Daley certainly can.


----------



## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

AJClark said:


> Sans Koscheck, Shields 'n' Healy (two of which are far more capable), who?
> 
> If Lombard, Belcher and Marquardt can jack him, Daley certainly can.


Lombard, Belcher and Maqrquardt are better fighters then Daley. Also those were weird fights. Especially the greasing of Marquardt. Daley would get put on his back very quickly and unless he was greasing it would be over before it started.
Seriously, is there any doubt at all at this point that Marquardt was greasing that fight? He has been caught cheating since then and shown his true character and no one else was able to escape those holds that easily. It's pretty damn clear at this point.


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## MCMAP Wizzard (Feb 5, 2012)

Voiceless said:


> You obviously have NOT seen the video or have not understood what happened. I've just broken down the situation step by step the page before, using the given timecode. Feel free to try and disprove my breakdown and explain on the video how you get to those 5 seconds without bending reality.


It's pretty common sense to anybody with eyeballs and a brain really. Sorry but I actually have a life outside of the internet and not the time for that.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

OU said:


> Lombard, Belcher and Maqrquardt are better fighters then Daley. Also those were weird fights. Especially the greasing of Marquardt. Daley would get put on his back very quickly and unless he was greasing it would be over before it started.
> Seriously, is there any doubt at all at this point that Marquardt was greasing that fight? He has been caught cheating since then and shown his true character and no one else was able to escape those holds that easily. It's pretty damn clear at this point.


Herb Dean checked him enough for me to believe he absolutely did not grease in that fight. I trust his first hand judgement over your speculation, sorry.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

AJClark said:


> Herb Dean checked him enough for me to believe he absolutely did not grease in that fight. I trust his first hand judgement over your speculation, sorry.


Whatever helps you sleep at night. It's pretty obvious to me. You UK fans are always so touchy about your overrated fighters like Michael Page and Paul Daley.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

OU said:


> Whatever helps you sleep at night. It's pretty obvious to me.


I've... Well, I've never considered it at big sleeps time to be honest.

Though I feel compelled to reiterate, your 'argument' of "it's pretty obvious to me" doesn't debunk the _fact_ that Herb Dean checked him over there and then. Genuine question, why wouldn't you believe him?



OU said:


> You UK fans are always so touchy about your overrated fighters like Michael Page and Paul Daley.


Now hey! Where'd that come from?  

And where did I get touchy? Not sure why you felt the need to bring that into what is barely a conversation. Pretty sure I'm defending an American fistycuffs participant here.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

OU said:


> Whatever helps you sleep at night. It's pretty obvious to me. You UK fans are always so touchy about your overrated fighters like Michael Page and Paul Daley.


Palhares reacts weird any time someone slips out of his leglock. He either thinks Marquardt must of been greasing or he freezes up completely like against Belcher.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

AJClark said:


> I've... Well, I've never considered it at big sleeps time to be honest.
> 
> Though I feel compelled to reiterate, your 'argument' of "it's pretty obvious to me" doesn't debunk the _fact_ that Herb Dean checked him over there and then. Genuine question, why wouldn't you believe him?


Why do I think he was greasing? Because he has tried leg locks on numerous people and it has never, ever looked anywhere close to that before. I'm pretty sure Herb missed that one. Plenty of ways to get around the Herb inspection, that is if Herb even paid that much attention to his legs and how slippery they were. It was extremely bizarre and too early for that amount of sweat to cause that, not sure if he can produce enough sweat to cause that kind of effect anyways.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2010/...cusations-team-congratulates-marquardt-on-win


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

OU said:


> *Why do I think he was greasing? Because he has tried leg locks on numerous people and it has never, ever looked anywhere close to that before.* I'm pretty sure Herb missed that one. *Plenty of ways to get around the Herb inspection*, that is if Herb even paid that much attention to his legs and how slippery they were. It was extremely bizarre and too early for that amount of sweat to cause that, not sure if he can produce enough sweat to cause that kind of effect anyways.


*1* So your argument is he got out of a submission some other people hadn't... therefore SHENANIGANS! 

*2* Such as?


Also this :hug:



Joabbuac said:


> http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2010/...cusations-team-congratulates-marquardt-on-win


----------



## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Marquardt is a proven cheater since then. Why would it surprise you to find out he was greasing when he attempted to fight a man with 100x normal testosterone levels? Not sure there is anything that POS wouldn't do to gain an advantage.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

OU said:


> Marquardt is a proven cheater since then. Why would it surprise you to find out he was greasing when he attempted to fight a man with 100x normal testosterone levels? Not sure there is anything that POS wouldn't do to gain an advantage.


You can't just make stuff up and declare it fact because he's been busted doing some other shifty stuff in his time!


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

AJClark said:


> You can't just make stuff up and declare it fact because he's been busted doing some other shifty stuff in his time!


I didn't make anything up. I merely stated that IMO it's pretty obvious he was cheating even at the time it happened. Since then his shady actions have confirmed my thoughts that he is a POS that would cheat. You disagree, that's cool. The question was obviously there, I wasn't the first one to bring up the greasing allegations. Paul Harris apology doesn't mean anything since he can't prove it and has nothing to gain. So he gave the PC answer and moved on. All he could do.
But there was obviously enough there at the time for the question to be raised or we never would of heard anything about it.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

OU said:


> I didn't make anything up. I merely stated that IMO it's pretty obvious he was cheating even at the time it happened. Since then his shady actions have confirmed my thoughts that he is a POS that would cheat. You disagree, that's cool. The question was obviously there, I wasn't the first one to bring up the greasing allegations. Paul Harris apology doesn't mean anything since he can't prove it and has nothing to gain. So he gave the PC answer and moved on. All he could do.
> But there was obviously enough there at the time for the question to be raised or we never would of heard anything about it.


Well, there was his reaction at the time and pretty much nothing else to raise the question. Given he ain't the sharpest tool in the box I wouldn't say that's a solid foundation for an argument, would you? 

Do you believe in crop circles and pretty as a picture ******** being probed in the sexy hole because the question has been raise? Probably not


----------



## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

AJClark said:


> Well, there was his reaction at the time and pretty much nothing else to raise the question. Given he ain't the sharpest tool in the box I wouldn't say that's a solid foundation for an argument, would you?
> 
> Do you believe in crop circles and pretty as a picture ******** being probed in the sexy hole because the question has been raise? Probably not


Eh, we have a cheater and a moron. Both were cut from the UFC for reasons other then having a losing performance in the cage. Not a fan of either as people. Neither care about the safety of their fellow athletes. Coming in with monster testosterone levels is just as dangerous for your opponent as holding a leg lock. Both could end a career. 

Also, I would rather not go into detail about that cloudy day in the middle of the wheat field...


----------



## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

OU said:


> Eh, we have a cheater and a moron. Both were cut from the UFC for reasons other then having a losing performance in the cage. Not a fan of either.


Well, I can pretty much agree with this, if not anything else.



> Also, I would rather not go into detail about that cloudy day in the middle of the wheat field...


I thought so, I remember it well. Just making sure you kept your silence, human.


----------



## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

AJClark said:


> Well, I can pretty much agree with this, if not anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought so, I remember it well. Just making sure you kept your silence, human.


It's a slow day, not saying I'm outright trolling but I may be exaggerating for effect. Still I think Nate probably cheated that night.

Going to my happy place, happy thoughts...happy thoughts...


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

"But I looked at Nate's legs myself. The commission checked them out, too. There was certainly no grease there. It was our error, and we owe Nate an apology, as well as Greg Jackson and
the rest of his coaches and team." - The trainer of Palhares.


----------



## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Joabbuac said:


> "But I looked at Nate's legs myself. The commission checked them out, too. There was certainly no grease there. It was our error, and we owe Nate an apology, as well as Greg Jackson and
> the rest of his coaches and team." - The trainer of Palhares.


Now what he really meant was....
"I have nothing else to gain from fighting this, I can't prove anything. It's best for my client that we apologize and move on."

I'm fluent in BS. I speak it all the time.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

OU said:


> Now what he really meant was....
> "I have nothing else to gain from fighting this, I can't prove anything. It's best for my client that we apologize and move on."
> 
> I'm fluent in BS. I speak it all the time.












I just scored American Netflix, I'm out lol :bye01:


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)




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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

OU said:


> Now what he really meant was....
> "I have nothing else to gain from fighting this, I can't prove anything. It's best for my client that we apologize and move on."
> 
> I'm fluent in BS. I speak it all the time.


Na, if they thought there fighter was truly wronged they would speak up.


----------



## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Joabbuac said:


> Na, if they thought there fighter was truly wronged they would speak up.


Not if they didn't think there was any hope of any kind of positive outcome. Can't prove it. Can't change the result. Waist of time and effort. It's 100% PC answer and in no way an actual reflection on how he really feels. Hand to God(expression) they would tell you Nate was greasing.


----------



## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

OU said:


> Not if they didn't think there was any hope of any kind of positive outcome. Can't prove it. Can't change the result. Waist of time and effort. It's 100% PC answer and in no way an actual reflection on how he really feels. Hand to God(expression) they would tell you Nate was greasing.


Well, ill trust Herb Dean, the commissioner and Murilo Bustamante over your guesswork.


----------



## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Palharres is dumb as shit... It was probably his hands that were greasy. Probably had a burger in his locker room and forgot.

P.s - I'd give Paul Daley a good shot at beating Palharres purely with fight smarts... And I absolutely can't stand Paul Daley.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Joabbuac said:


> Well, ill trust Herb Dean, the commissioner and Murilo Bustamante over your guesswork.


It's not guessing. It's based off observations and reports. The report was dropped because he couldn't win. The report was made because he believed it happened. The UFC lies all the time, I never lie. :thumb03:


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Who could possibly care less? Both of them are confirmed cheaters, neither of them is good enough to ever come within a whiff of a UFC title at any weight class, and neither of them can count to 20 with their shoes on.


----------



## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Sports_Nerd said:


> Who could possibly care less? Both of them are confirmed cheaters, neither of them is good enough to ever come within a whiff of a UFC title at any weight class, and neither of them can count to 20 with their shoes on.


The initial point was most people want to see both of these men get hurt because they are POS with no respect for the sport or it's competitors. So let them give eachother a taste of their own medicine. Let Paul Harris snap Daley's leg and let Daley break Harris' orbital when he comes to apologize. It's not really a serious conversation just 2 POS that happen to be in the same weight class now.


----------



## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

OU said:


> The initial point was most people want to see both of these men get hurt because they are POS with no respect for the sport or it's competitors. So let them give eachother a taste of their own medicine. Let Paul Harris snap Daley's leg and let Daley break Harris' orbital when he comes to apologize. It's not really a serious conversation just 2 POS that happen to be in the same weight class now.


Paul Daley acted in the heat of the moment after three rounds of lying underneath a trash talking blanket. This was the first and only incident we have seen Daley demonstrate unsportsmanlike conduct in MMA.

Palhares has shown his dirty and extremely dangerous antics time and time again in the past, with previous suspensions and even his own manager stating that he is also notorious for holding on for submissions too long and hurting partners in training.

I don't think after Daleys one off incident he can be compared to a man like Palhares - given his reputation. Not excusing Daley, what he did was wrong in the Koscheck fight, I just think it's unfair to label him as a scum bag piece of shit for a one off incident. I've done some incredibly stupid things myself in the heat of the moment with the reptilian brain in full over drive.


----------



## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Paul Daley acted in the heat of the moment after three rounds of lying underneath a trash talking blanket. This was the first and *only incident we have seen Daley demonstrate unsportsmanlike conduct in MMA.*
> 
> Palhares has shown his dirty and extremely dangerous antics time and time again in the past, with previous suspensions and even his own manager stating that he is also notorious for holding on for submissions too long and hurting partners in training.
> 
> I don't think after Daleys one off incident he can be compared to a man like Palhares - given his reputation. Not excusing Daley, what he did was wrong in the Koscheck fight, I just think it's unfair to label him as a scum bag piece of shit for a one off incident. I've done some incredibly stupid things myself in the heat of the moment with the reptilian brain in full over drive.


How many times exactly has man missed weight? I don't know if there was ever a fighter that has fought in the UFC at some point miss weight as many times as Daley. That's one of the most disrespectful things you can do in MMA. Your opponent put in the work to cut those final pounds and you step on the scale and spit in his face by not doing the same. Seriously I can't think of any fighter that has missed weight more the Paul Daley. Paul Daley has shown over and over again he doesn't respect the sport or it's athletes.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

OU said:


> How many times exactly has man missed weight? I don't know if there was ever a fighter that has fought in the UFC at some point miss weight as many times as Daley. That's one of the most disrespectful things you can do in MMA. Your opponent put in the work to cut those final pounds and you step on the scale and spit in his face by not doing the same. Seriously I can't think of any fighter that has missed weight more the Paul Daley. Paul Daley has shown over and over again he doesn't respect the sport or it's athletes.


Ok, missing wait, that's fair enough, it's unsportsmanlike and inexcusable. How ever, I thought we were rather talking about incidents which involved violence after a bout has been closed. Also, there are plenty of fighters that miss weight, so this isn't some kind of isolated incident. The likes of Anthony Johnson and Thiago Alves spring to mind. I I think Anthony Johnson missed weight more times than Paul Daley, but I could be wrong.

So in your opinion, all fighters who miss weight occasionaly are also scum bags and pieces of shit? This isn't just isolated to Paul Daley?

Also, I notice you have Hendo in your sig who has attested to using TRT himself. Is that in your eyes not an unsportsmanlike decision? I think using a performance enhancers are worse than missing weight, but that's just an opinion.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

OU said:


> I didn't make anything up. I merely stated that IMO it's pretty obvious he was cheating even at the time it happened. Since then his shady actions have confirmed my thoughts that he is a POS that would cheat. You disagree, that's cool. The question was obviously there, I wasn't the first one to bring up the greasing allegations. Paul Harris apology doesn't mean anything since he can't prove it and has nothing to gain. So he gave the PC answer and moved on. All he could do.
> But there was obviously enough there at the time for the question to be raised or we never would of heard anything about it.


It has to be illegal for it to be cheating, I honestly dont know if the NSAC has modified their criteria but at the time of that fight the rules covering "greasing" were very liberal. Maybe they have updated the rules? doubtful seeing as its legislation.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Ok, missing wait, that's fair enough, it's unsportsmanlike and inexcusable. How ever, I thought we were rather talking about incidents which involved violence after a bout has been closed. Also, there are plenty of fighters that miss weight, so this isn't some kind of isolated incident. The likes of Anthony Johnson and Thiago Alves spring to mind. I I think Anthony Johnson missed weight more times than Paul Daley, but I could be wrong.
> 
> So in your opinion, all fighters who miss weight occasionaly are also scum bags and pieces of shit? This isn't just isolated to Paul Daley?
> 
> Also, I notice you have Hendo in your sig who has attested to using TRT himself. Is that in your eyes not an unsportsmanlike decision? I think using a performance enhancers are worse than missing weight, but that's just an opinion.


I'm pretty sure Daley has actually missed weight more then Alves and Johnson combined, not positive but pretty sure. Check this out. He missed weight 5 times in a 11 fight span.
http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/02/25/paul-daley-misses-weight-for-fifth-time-in-11-fights
That's nearly 50%. A big F-you to his opponent every time. Pretty unprofessional.

I'm not saying I agree with TRT but Hendo just takes advantage of the rules currently in place.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

OU said:


> *How many times exactly has man missed weight? I don't know if there was ever a fighter that has fought in the UFC at some point miss weight as many times as Daley. That's one of the most disrespectful things you can do in MMA.* Your opponent put in the work to cut those final pounds and you step on the scale and spit in his face by not doing the same. Seriously I can't think of any fighter that has missed weight more the Paul Daley. Paul Daley has shown over and over again he doesn't respect the sport or it's athletes.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Killz said:


>


Lol Anthony ' Tummy Rumble" Johnson could fight at LHW and still show up 10 lbs over. Yeah worst weight cutter ever!


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Paul Daley has missed weight more then Anthony Johnson. I still haven't found anyone that has missed weight more times then Daley.


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

He's done this before he was in the UFC, three times now in the UFC, in BJJ grappling tournaments, to his training partners in the gym, and is a busted roider. No one should be defending this guy, he is unsafe he shouldn't be licensed to compete, his actions are becoming and could be investigated as criminal acts. It's not everyone else, it's him.


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