# The unfortunate truth about Kimbo



## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

This past weekend I was talking about the upcoming Couture vs Lesnar bout with a couple friends. Then he said what about Kimbo? I laughed. Then I realized they were serious. I said that Kimbo was a joke. They had no idea. I have been wondering who out there actually thought Kimbo had some skills? I guess sometimes us real fans of mma forget that the casual fan really has no idea whats going on. They see the promos and ESPN magazine coverage and think he must be amazing. I was wondering what you think the mma community needs to do to educate the casual fan?


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## A1yola06 (Jan 5, 2007)

rockybalboa25 said:


> This past weekend I was talking about the upcoming Couture vs Lesnar bout with a couple friends. Then he said what about Kimbo? I laughed. Then I realized they were serious. I said that Kimbo was a joke. They had no idea. I have been wondering who out there actually thought Kimbo had some skills? I guess sometimes us real fans of mma forget that the casual fan really has no idea whats going on. They see the promos and ESPN magazine coverage and think he must be amazing. I was wondering what you think the mma community needs to do to educate the casual fan?


It's kinda like baseball or any other major sport, I'm a casual baseball fan. I love the Mariners just because they are from my city even though they suck, its a matter of pride... they are shown on TV, news papers, and every other media that is Seattle or Japanese (because we got ichiro) based. The only way I'm gunna learn more is if I watch more baseball. They just need to watch more MMA and do their research.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

There is no hope for them. Tell them that Kimbo is a god, and walk away.


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## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

Just wait until Kimbo faces his first real opponent, and then bet large amounts of money against them about who's going to win. You'll get rich and they'll learn a lesson.


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

Kimbo has decent striking. I think thats really where you can see BAS having his effect. His striking in his first exibition fight was very slopy. He won the fight but he still wasnt there. His ko power is there and his boxing technique has gotten way better since bas got a hold of him. Of course he isnt at the level of say cro cop, fedor etc but I think in terms of heavy weights he has top 20 striking at this point.

Wrestling Grappeling Conditioning and kick Boxing he isnt top 20 material. From what I have been hearing they were really just set on trying to clean up his striking at first and that was there main goal. They reached it and now they are focusing on working his wrestling and sprawl.

You can see in the james thompson fight that he has been training his bjj and wrestling its just that it really isnt that good yet. They are more then likely shifting the focus to his wrestling now. I dont like Kimbo like the majority of die hard MMA fans but he does have tallent and skill. 

He will eventually be something to reckon with but right now hes a noob. So they are hyping his ass up and giving him fights they think he can win. I will be rooting for Ken Shamrock but I can see kimbo winning this fight easily if he works on his wrestling and just over powers shamrock.


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## Shamrock-Ortiz (Sep 22, 2006)

Couchwarrior said:


> Just wait until Kimbo faces his first real opponent, and then bet large amounts of money against them about who's going to win. You'll get rich and they'll learn a lesson.


I bet a friend a fair bit of money when Ricky Hatton fought Floyd Mayweather, he didn't even know who Mayweather was and he thought he was a "boxing fan".

I live in the UK, this stuff isn't rare. Before Mayweather wooped Hattons ass, alot of people didn't know who he was and thought Hatton was the best.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

That's how my friends were before the Kimbo/Thompson fight. Then they saw how badly kimbo did and said kimbo sucks.


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

yorT said:


> That's how my friends were before the Kimbo/Thompson fight. Then they saw how badly kimbo did and said kimbo sucks.


he doesnt suck hes a decent striker hes just a noob


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## bail3yz (Apr 22, 2007)

mrmyz said:


> I dont like Kimbo like the majority of die hard MMA fans


WHAT?! are you on crack?



mrmyz said:


> He will eventually be something to reckon with


Yes, clearly you are.


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## MLD (Oct 15, 2006)

My boxing coach always preached conditioning, conditioning, conditioning. One must have conditioning to compete at these levels. When I watched his Thompson fight his lack of conditioning was the most glaring deficiency I detected, then his ground game stuck out as bad too. Maybe he'll become something in the future, or maybe he has just been marketed well and will never live up to the hype. You can't polish a turd... Who knows. We'll see.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

bail3yz said:


> WHAT?! are you on crack?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, clearly you are.


I gotta agree Kimbo is never going to amount to anything. He's never going to beat a top guy. He'll be similar to Butterbean in boxing. He lose to an over the hill used to be and a bunch of no names and fade into obscurity.


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

rockybalboa25 said:


> I gotta agree Kimbo is never going to amount to anything. He's never going to beat a top guy. He'll be similar to Butterbean in boxing. He lose to an over the hill used to be and a bunch of no names and fade into obscurity.


his boxing is up there. he has good boxing its more of an inside fighter style its not a counter puncher style. He has the talent to compete at the higher levels but he has to work on his striking more and he needs to develop his other skills but he is working on it. Dont hate. 

So far the way things are going his next few matches are already set up. Im pretty sure when he shows up for the shamrock fight he will have conciderably better wrestling then he did with the thompson fight.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

I hope he has a better gas tank this time. He is explosive in the frist round then after that he goes flat. He has fought 2 about to be 3 people over the age of 40 and the James Thompson's lost 7 of his last 9 fights. 

We have yet to see him fight someone with a decent skill that isn't over the hill.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

mrmyz said:


> his boxing is up there. he has good boxing its more of an inside fighter style its not a counter puncher style. He has the talent to compete at the higher levels but he has to work on his striking more and he needs to develop his other skills but he is working on it. Dont hate.
> 
> So far the way things are going his next few matches are already set up. Im pretty sure when he shows up for the shamrock fight he will have conciderably better wrestling then he did with the thompson fight.


His boxing is not up there. His punches are way to wide and looping. You can tell he has no boxing training, by the way he drops his hands before he throws. Not only does this leave him open, it telegraphs his punches. If he wants to be successful he needs to start completely from scratch. He needs to learn how to box, wrestle, and do BJJ. I highly doubt he will improve for the Shamrock fight, since he hasn't improved his striking or conditioning from his first fight until his last one.


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## bail3yz (Apr 22, 2007)

Kimbo is a cashcow. He has very little potential. All his opponents are hand picked, over the hill, and are on massive losing streaks. Yet, he still almost lost to JT. Kimbo is a C Level fighter (at best). Kimbo will likely lose before ever fighting a top 15 HW. 

Mrmyz, I love how you say you dont like kimbo like most die hard fans. When you are saying how good he is / will be... and very few die hard mma fans like kimbo.. because they are aware of how hyped the situation is. The whole kimbo bs is used to trick casual fans into thinking hes the next big thing.. so they watch his fights. When in reality.. there are guys in the UFC that are 2-3 weight classes lower then him and they'd dominate him.


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

bail3yz said:


> Kimbo is a cashcow. He has very little potential. All his opponents are hand picked, over the hill, and are on massive losing streaks. Yet, he still almost lost to JT. Kimbo is a C Level fighter (at best). Kimbo will likely lose before ever fighting a top 15 HW.
> 
> Mrmyz, I love how you say you dont like kimbo like most die hard fans. When you are saying how good he is / will be... and very few die hard mma fans like kimbo.. because they are aware of how hyped the situation is. The whole kimbo bs is used to trick casual fans into thinking hes the next big thing.. so they watch his fights. When in reality.. there are guys in the UFC that are 2-3 weight classes lower then him and they'd dominate him.


I dont like him but Im not going to hate and most people telegraph in MMA. Robbie lawler is the mw champion and he loads up his shots like crazy.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

mrmyz said:


> I dont like him but Im not going to hate and most people telegraph in MMA. Robbie lawler is the mw champion and he loads up his shots like crazy.


The top guys don't load up. MMA has grown and the level of striking has increased. Loading up for big punches just doesn't work anymore. Just ask Chuck Liddell.


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

rockybalboa25 said:


> The top guys don't load up. MMA has grown and the level of striking has increased. Loading up for big punches just doesn't work anymore. Just ask Chuck Liddell.


Lets look at the top ten rankings on some of these magazines/ sites. Sokoudjou, Lidell, Rashad, Thiago Silva, Robbie Lawler, Karo Parisyan, Jon Fitch, etc etc all of these guys are concidered top 10 in their perspective divisions and they still load up.

Thiago silva has to be the slowest most loaded up striker in mma today, Far worse then kimbo and I dont see you guys hating on him.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

mrmyz said:


> Lets look at the top ten rankings on some of these magazines/ sites. Sokoudjou, Lidell, Rashad, Thiago Silva, Robbie Lawler, Karo Parisyan, Jon Fitch, etc etc all of these guys are concidered top 10 in their perspective divisions and they still load up.
> 
> Thiago silva has to be the slowest most loaded up striker in mma today, Far worse then kimbo and I dont see you guys hating on him.


Neither Fitch nor Evans load up.


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Neither Fitch nor Evans load up.


Evans knocked lidell out with a loaded up shot.










He loaded up the right and the hook. Thats not a over hand right thats a ******* hay maker


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

mrmyz said:


> Lets look at the top ten rankings on some of these magazines/ sites. Sokoudjou, Lidell, Rashad, Thiago Silva, Robbie Lawler, Karo Parisyan, Jon Fitch, etc etc all of these guys are concidered top 10 in their perspective divisions and they still load up.
> 
> Thiago silva has to be the slowest most loaded up striker in mma today, Far worse then kimbo and I dont see you guys hating on him.


Thaigo fights top fighters, not people over the age of 43. This would be different if kimbo was actually fighting top competition or someone under the age of 43.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

J.P. said:


> There is no hope for them. Tell them that Kimbo is a god, and walk away.


 
lol...you guys dont think Kimbo is a god????:confused02:


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

coldcall420 said:


> lol...you guys dont think Kimbo is a god????:confused02:


hes a noob who has has less then 5 fights under his belt and should be treated like one. People are just hating because he got so much exposure so quick and thats not his fault. They are giving him the same treatment the UFC gave roger huerta and you dont see people bitching about huerta. Untill he fought guida he never fought any one worth a damn.


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

yorT said:


> Thaigo fights top fighters, not people over the age of 43. This would be different if kimbo was actually fighting top competition or someone under the age of 43.


The only guys hes fought that were a big deal is james irvin and houston alexander. Ill give him credit for that but aside from that but untill he got to the UFC he was fighting no bodies because he was a noob. He didnt face top competition till his 10th fight. 

What Im getting at is kimbo is still a noobie at this whole thing. Just sit back and watch as he progresses so much hate. You guys are probably the same people that were hating on cung le until cung le finally fought shamrock and kicked his ass. 

Even if kimbo beat top guys you would still find a reason to hate him and say he sucks because you dont really care how good he is you have some agenda against him for no reason. Hell I dont like kimbo but I give credit where credit is do and he has crisper striking then thiago silva and thats a fact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmxQ5lwUr1I

here are some clips from the thompson fight. Kimbo was using wrestling, bjj sweeps, knees etc. You wouldnt have seen any of this shit happen if he would have fought thompson when he first started mma. He is slowly becoming a complete fighter. As his fights progress he will be getting better and better.

Right now he is and the begining of his game where he is banking off of his bread and butter which in this case is his boxing. It still needs work but he is focusing on that and developing other skills in the process. In all honestly he has better skills then a lot of fighters in the ufc.

he is a much better fighter then chris leben and has better grappeling ability then houston alexander for sure.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

how did he load up? He faked with the left and then threw an over hand right. Nice job of using slow motion to make it look like he loaded up. Kimbo drops his hands and winds up just to throw a jab or straight right. I guess what I mean by a loaded up shot is simply one that you can see coming a mile a way because a fighter drops his shoulders as he throws. By proper technique you have to drop your shoulder when throwing an over hand shot. I really hope you're not dumb enough to really think that Kimbo has better technique than Fitch, Evans, or Silva.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

mrmyz said:


> hes a noob who has has less then 5 fights under his belt and should be treated like one. People are just hating because he got so much exposure so quick and thats not his fault. They are giving him the same treatment the UFC gave roger huerta and you dont see people bitching about huerta. Untill he fought guida he never fought any one worth a damn.


Number of cards kimbo was the main or co-main event for Elite XC=3

Number of cards Huerta was the main or co main event for the UFC when not fighting names like guida or florian=0


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

rockybalboa25 said:


> how did he load up? He faked with the left and then threw an over hand right. Nice job of using slow motion to make it look like he loaded up. Kimbo drops his hands and winds up just to throw a jab or straight right. I guess what I mean by a loaded up shot is simply one that you can see coming a mile a way because a fighter drops his shoulders as he throws. By proper technique you have to drop your shoulder when throwing an over hand shot. I really hope you're not dumb enough to really think that Kimbo has better technique than Fitch, Evans, or Silva.


he wound that up so far it wasnt even funny and the hook he throw was sloppy as helll


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

mrmyz said:


> he wound that up so far it wasnt even funny and the hook he throw was sloppy as helll


Most follow up punches to follow a knockdown look sloppy. Even Ali looked sloppy in his knockouts trying to hit a guy that is going down, which is why he didn't hit Foreman on the way down.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Kimbo's not black??????:dunno:


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

coldcall420 said:


> Kimbo's not black??????:dunno:


Huh???


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Most follow up punches to follow a knockdown look sloppy. Even Ali looked sloppy in his knockouts trying to hit a guy that is going down, which is why he didn't hit Foreman on the way down.


I dont know what the hell you are talking about, every punch if performed correct should look exactly the same whether you make contact or not. You not hitting the opponent doesnt make a punch look sloppy. He wasnt throwing that hook properly from the begining. He cocked his arm back and loaded up from the arm which makes no sense because thats not where the power in a hook comes from. Its a sloppy hook plain and simple. Once you put your arm in place to throw the hook you shouldnt move your arm at all. What moves the arm in the hook is body rotation and thats where you get the power.

His hook looked sloppy because he was throwing the hook with his arm instead of his body. The best technical boxer in mma right now is Rampage. His hooks are beautiful.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

mrmyz said:


> I dont know what the hell you are talking about, every punch if performed correct should look exactly the same whether you make contact or not. You not hitting the opponent doesnt make a punch look sloppy. He wasnt throwing that hook properly from the begining. He cocked his arm back and loaded up from the arm which makes no sense because thats not where the power in a hook comes from. Its a sloppy hook plain and simple. Once you put your arm in place to throw the hook you shouldnt move your arm at all. What moves the arm in the hook is body rotation and thats where you get the power.
> 
> His hook looked sloppy because he was throwing the hook with his arm instead of his body. The best technical boxer in mma right now is Rampage. His hooks are beautiful.


As a former golden glove champion I can tell you it does make a difference if the fighter goes down. You've set your punches to a target, then mid way through the guy awkwardly crumbles. You try to change the destination of your punch mid way through, but it almost always looks ridiculous. It might not be technically correct, but all fighters do it. Partially because the guy no longer poses a threat.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

mrmyz said:


> as using wrestling, bjj sweeps, knees etc. You wouldnt have seen any of this shit happen if he would have fought thompson when he first started mma. He is slowly becoming a complete fighter. As his fights progress he will be getting better and better.
> 
> Right now he is and the begining of his game where he is banking off of his bread and butter which in this case is his boxing. It still needs work but he is focusing on that and developing other skills in the process. In all honestly he has better skills then a lot of fighters in the ufc.
> 
> he is a much better fighter then chris leben and has better grappeling ability then houston alexander for sure.


Kimbo gets hate because he gets paid like a top fighter but he doesn't have the record OR skills OR opponents to justify it. You're right that isn't his "fault", I hate Gary Shaw more than I hate Kimbo. However, even allowing for that he just isn't that good. His ground game is laughable, his hands are ok. Not great, ok. His cardio is brutal. Add that up and consider his age. 

He will NEVER be a contender, let alone a title holder. At best he might become a gatekeeper. It doesn't matter if he keeps improving from where he is now, he isn't talented enough. He'd have to improve light years beyond what we've seen and that isn't going to happen. Well he might become a contender at Elite XC just because they are shameless in setting up fights. It is possible he might fight for that title one day but he'll never be any good compared to real hw's. 

Chris Leben is 10 times the fighter Kimbo is and if they fought I'd pick Leben in a heart beat even though he's a MW.


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## nevrsummr13 (Mar 5, 2008)

mrmyz said:


> *The only guys hes fought that were a big deal is james irvin and houston alexander. Ill give him credit for that but aside from that but untill he got to the UFC he was fighting no bodies because he was a noob. He didnt face top competition till his 10th fight. *
> 
> What Im getting at is kimbo is still a noobie at this whole thing. Just sit back and watch as he progresses so much hate. *You guys are probably the same people that were hating on cung le until cung le finally fought shamrock and kicked his ass. *
> 
> ...


nobody is saying that thiago silva is the greatest fighter in the world though and thats the problem with kimbo is that people are saying that hes the best fighter, 
and cung le did absolutely nothing in that shamrock fight that showed me anything different than his other fights,
he literally just kicks people to death yes his kicks are very impressive some of the best in MMA but he didnt do anything in that fight that he didnt do in his earlier fights, if he dominated shamrock and stuffed his takedowns throughout the fight and got taken down a few times and beat him on the ground too then i would be impressed but all he did was beat a worse kickboxer in a kickboxing match


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

rockybalboa25 said:


> As a former golden glove champion I can tell you it does make a difference if the fighter goes down. You've set your punches to a target, then mid way through the guy awkwardly crumbles. You try to change the destination of your punch mid way through, but it almost always looks ridiculous. It might not be technically correct, but all fighters do it. Partially because the guy no longer poses a threat.


then you have some bad habbits because if it doesnt connect its supposed to come right back. I dont do it .... Im either going to punch through my oponent or recoil as fast as possible to deliver the next punch/kick. He looped that punch out from the begining it was horrible from the start.

Furthermore rashad wasnt even looking at his opponent because he didnt see when chuck was buckeling. He turned his head with that right instead of keeping his eye on the opponent. Thats boxing bassics always look them in the eyes and never look away.

Secound amatuer golden gloves is nothing to brag about. I know a lot of horrible boxers with golden gloves.


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

nevrsummr13 said:


> nobody is saying that thiago silva is the greatest fighter in the world though and thats the problem with kimbo is that people are saying that hes the best fighter,
> and cung le did absolutely nothing in that shamrock fight that showed me anything different than his other fights,
> he literally just kicks people to death yes his kicks are very impressive some of the best in MMA but he didnt do anything in that fight that he didnt do in his earlier fights, if he dominated shamrock and stuffed his takedowns throughout the fight and got taken down a few times and beat him on the ground too then i would be impressed but all he did was beat a worse kickboxer in a kickboxing match


I am by no means saying he is the greatest thing out there. Im just giving credit where credit is due. The guy has been working hard and trying to get better and every one has just been hating because he got success so early in his career.

If anything you guys are right it is gary shaws fault for doing it not even the HW champion gets this much attention but you cant hate on the guy for being marketable and trying to make some money while doing what he loves. Kimbo is legit now and he will be a force to recon with if he continues to accell at the rate he is now.

My prediction for the shamrock fight is that he takes this one by KO. Im still hoping that shamrock can pull a win off though.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

mrmyz said:


> then you have some bad habbits because if it doesnt connect its supposed to come right back. I dont do it .... Im either going to punch through my oponent or recoil as fast as possible to deliver the next punch/kick. He looped that punch out from the begining it was horrible from the start.
> 
> Furthermore rashad wasnt even looking at his opponent because he didnt see when chuck was buckeling. He turned his head with that right instead of keeping his eye on the opponent. Thats boxing bassics always look them in the eyes and never look away.
> 
> Secound amatuer golden gloves is nothing to brag about. I know a lot of horrible boxers with golden gloves.


First of all the reason the punch was ugly wasn't the lack of bringing it back. Secondly look at the picture when he was delivering the left hook, he s looking directly at Chuck. Thirdly as far as the golden gloves are concerned, you don't know dick. In Chicago where I won mine, it is the standard by which the top amateurs are measured. Some guys fight in in the amateurs (hey look I can spell) for five or six years and never win. A guy from my gym who fought for the lightweight title four times never won one. I guess when you've never achieved anything yourself, it's easy to attack others achievements.


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

rockybalboa25 said:


> First of all the reason the punch was ugly wasn't the lack of bringing it back. Secondly look at the picture when he was delivering the left hook, he s looking directly at Chuck. Thirdly as far as the golden gloves are concerned, you don't know dick. In Chicago where I won mine, it is the standard by which the top amateurs are measured. Some guys fight in in the amateurs (hey look I can spell) for five or six years and never win. A guy from my gym who fought for the lightweight title four times never won one. I guess when you've never achieved anything yourself, it's easy to attack others achievements.


You want to throw down titles?
Former Heavy Weight Carribean Kick Boxing Champion
South Eastern Kick Boxing Champion ISKA
and I have competed in over 50 kick boxing events through out my career not taking into account my amateur career. Ive fought in holland (got my ass kicked), Thailand and all across the U.S. 

Ive been kick boxing since the age of 12 and Im 30 now. So hold on to your golden gloves.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

mrmyz said:


> You want to throw down titles?
> Former Heavy Weight Carribean Kick Boxing Champion
> South Eastern Kick Boxing Champion ISKA
> and I have competed in over 50 kick boxing events through out my career not taking into account my amateur career. Ive fought in holland (got my ass kicked), Thailand and all across the U.S.
> ...


Impressive, not quite sure I believe you, but if true impressive. Back to my orignal point. Look at the Greatest here. Notice the ugly left hook as Liston goes down (lets not get into whether it was a phantom punch or not.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzWynvBLJ4I

Also if the above is true, you could beat Kimbo so I'm surprised that you're defending him.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

mrmyz said:


> Lets look at the top ten rankings on some of these magazines/ sites. Sokoudjou, Lidell, Rashad, Thiago Silva, Robbie Lawler, Karo Parisyan, Jon Fitch, etc etc all of these guys are concidered top 10 in their perspective divisions and they still load up.
> 
> Thiago silva has to be the slowest most loaded up striker in mma today, Far worse then kimbo and I dont see you guys hating on him.


Thiago Silva's hands aren't what I would personally be scared of.

you're talking about kickboxers. Kimbo is NOT a kickboxer. I say put him in the ring with the Irish hand granade and show how well his boxing skills stand up.

When you're kickboxing you can load up by faking a kick. When you're just throwing hands loading up is just opening your face.


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