# UFC 104: Machida vs. Shogun



## N1™

October 24, 2009
Staples Center
Los Angeles, CA 


*Main Card :*

*Light Heavyweight Championship bout: Lyoto Machida (c) vs Mauricio Rua[1]
Heavyweight bout: Cain Velasquez vs. Ben Rothwell
Lightweight bout: Gleison Tibau vs. Josh Neer
Lightweight bout: Joe Stevenson vs. Spencer Fisher
Welterweight bout: Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida *

*Preliminary Card :*

*Middleweight bout: Yushin Okami vs. Chael Sonnen
Heavyweight bout: Antoni Hardonk vs. Patrick Barry
Middleweight bout: Jorge Rivera vs. Rob Kimmons
Light Heavyweight bout: Ryan Bader vs. Eric Schafer
Light Heavyweight bout: Kyle Kingsbury vs. Razak Al-Hassan
Heavyweight bout: Stefan Struve vs. Chase Gormley*








​


----------



## LjStronge

The biggest fight on this card for me is Carwin vs Cain - both of these guys are beasts and I don't think a loss for either of them will set them back to much because of their opposition.

As for Machida vs Shogun, Machida takes this all day, but that's only my opinion, I wanted Shogun to have at least 1 more fight to prove he's back, as I don't think he is.


----------



## Jesy Blue

Light Heavyweight Championship bout: *Lyoto Machida (c)* vs Mauricio Rua
Heavyweight bout: *Cain Velasquez *vs. Ben Rothwell
Lightweight bout: *Gleison Tibau* vs. Josh Neer
Lightweight bout: *Joe Stevenson* vs. Spencer Fisher
Welterweight bout: Anthony Johnson vs.* Yoshiyuki Yoshida*

Middleweight bout: *Yushin Okami* vs. Chael Sonnen
Heavyweight bout: Antoni Hardonk vs. *Patrick Barry*
Middleweight bout: Jorge Rivera vs. *Rob Kimmons*
Light Heavyweight bout: *Ryan Bader* vs. Eric Schafer
Light Heavyweight bout: Kyle Kingsbury vs. Razak Al-Hassan
Heavyweight bout: Stefan Struve vs. *Chase Gormle*


nice stacked card... except for Razak Al-Hassan vs. Kyle Kingsbury. you got a guy who does not know what's going on around him vs a guy who technically lost 3 fights in a row and the ufc signed him anyway? it's like special olympic mma.

edited 09/23/2009 for changes in line up.


----------



## Grizzly909

I gotta see how rumble does this time. Two devestating back 2 back losses for yoshida would be bad.


----------



## NikosCC

Machida all the way man. Shogun has nothing


----------



## mwhite18

NikosCC said:


> Machida all the way man. Shogun has nothing


No one will beat Machida until he dies. He's just that good.


----------



## Scorch

Wow. This card is looking really good. I especially cant wait for Machida to get his first defence, and FINALLY to see the unstoppable force, Carwin, battle the immoveable object, Velasquez. This is going to be _good._ :thumb02:


----------



## chilo

F UCK yea!!! 

WAR SHOGUN!!!!raise01:raise01:raise01:


----------



## LegTrip

Machida's first title defense is against the worst-stylistic match up against him.. which is bullshit.

It's really amazing, with all the depth that's found in the LHW division it's interesting that the contender pool is so pathetic.

A 2-win streak Mauricio getting a title shot at this point is pathetic.


----------



## jack meoff

chilo said:


> F UCK yea!!!
> 
> WAR SHOGUN!!!!raise01:raise01:raise01:



i still cant believe hes getting the shot already considering hes 2-1 and the only guy hes fought under 40 was his loss ...target practice for machida , as much as id love to see shogun fluke a win just so i could see a shogun /page rematch and watch rampage beat that bitch shogirl like he should of the first time . so **** yea! war shogirl ! either one will get murdered by my boy page anyway ....raise01:







LegTrip said:


> Machida's first title defense is against the worst-stylistic match up against him.. which is bullshit.
> 
> It's really amazing, with all the depth that's found in the LHW division it's interesting that the contender pool is so pathetic.
> 
> A 2-win streak Mauricio getting a title shot at this point is pathetic.


amen .:thumb02:


----------



## Grizzly909

Umdeafeted contenders in carwin and cain are fighting for the #1 spot.
I dont know who to choose!
But yea machidas got this in the bag.


----------



## Anibus

God this is gonna be good, if the Shogun we know and love shows up.


----------



## jack meoff

Anibus said:


> God this is gonna be good, if the Shogun we know and love shows up.



you mean the chain smoking senoire citizen beater ?


----------



## jeffmantx

LegTrip said:


> Machida's first title defense is against the worst-stylistic match up against him.. which is bullshit.
> 
> It's really amazing, with all the depth that's found in the LHW division it's interesting that the contender pool is so pathetic.
> 
> A 2-win streak Mauricio getting a title shot at this point is pathetic.


Who would you rather fight Machida instead? We fans have already gone over this. Shogun is the logical choice unless you want to wait till dec or later to see Machida fight again everyone is booked up. Again if Shogun doesn't deserve it who does? lol


----------



## chilo

jack meoff said:


> i still cant believe hes getting the shot already considering hes 2-1 and the only guy hes fought under 40 was his loss ...target practice for machida , as much as id love to see shogun fluke a win just so i could *see a shogun /page rematch and watch rampage beat that bitch shogirl like he should of the first time* . so **** yea! war shogirl ! either one will get murdered by my boy page anyway ....raise01:


haha nice try nub you fail on so many levels, oh yea, and why didn't rampage beat shogun in their first fight again?


----------



## jack meoff

chilo said:


> haha nice try nub you fail on so many levels, oh yea, and why didn't rampage beat shogun in their first fight again?


went into the fight with injured ribs if i remember correctly .and if your going to insult me , atleast spell "noob " correctly . fffaaiiilllllllll. thanks for playing though .:thumb02::sarcastic12::confused03:


----------



## carlosevenos

not the best card imo. A lot of the fights you could easily predict the winner


----------



## Freiermuth

Shogun has still got some mojo. I'm a big fan of his so I hope he can pull it off. Machida's post fight excitement really made me a fan of his too, still love his "and you Joe Rogan!" haha. Anyways, Shogun does need to stick to his gameplan, try some leg kicks then try to clinch/TD because Machida's just too good to go toe-to-toe with!


----------



## No_Mercy

Don't know why everyone is dismissing Shogun. He was the #1 light heavy weight at one point and he didn't looked too bad in his last fight albeit against an aging fighter. It should be competitive for the first couple of rounds. Wouldn't be surprised if Shogun strikes to try to get a take down. I agree though it would have been nice to see one more dominant fight win before he vyed for the championship belt, still not a bad match up at all. I'm excited! 

Heavyweight bout: Antoni Hardonk vs. Patrick Barry - THIS SHOULD BE A GOOD ONE!


----------



## coldcall420

Light Heavyweight Championship bout:* Lyoto Machida* (c) vs. Mauricio Rua
Heavyweight bout: *Shane Carwin* vs. Cain Velasquez
Middleweight bout: *Yushin Okami* vs. Chael Sonnen 
Light Heavyweight bout: *Ryan Bader* vs. Eric Schafer 
Light Heavyweight bout: Razak Al-Hassan vs. *Kyle Kingsbury*
Heavyweight bout: *Antoni Hardonk* vs. Patrick Barry 
Welterweight bout: *Anthony Johnson* vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida
Middleweight bout: Jorge Rivera vs. *Rob Kimmons*

:thumb02:


----------



## chilo

jack meoff said:


> went into the fight with injured ribs if i remember correctly .*and if your going to insult me , atleast spell "noob " correctly* . fffaaiiilllllllll. thanks for playing though .:thumb02::sarcastic12::confused03:


nub, niib, n00b, n00bi-wan kenobi, all the same damn thing thx for making yourself look like a internets n00b. 

and as for rampage, he didn't go into that fight with broken ribs rofl, shogun busted them in the first couple of seconds. jesus get your facts straight.


----------



## MartialArtist_1

i think this one will be better than Machida vs Evans... just an opinion


----------



## Jesy Blue

MartialArtist_1 said:


> i think this one will be better than Machida vs Evans... just an opinion


i think you're right.... Evans was still in the midst of proving himself. Rua IS established!

but, as it should, the fights keep getting harder and harder.


----------



## Sterl

Machida is so far better than anyone in the division, that being said that doesn't mean Shogun can't get the fight on the ground and possibly slip a submission. I see Machida winning the fight by a TKO in the 3rd round.


----------



## jack meoff

chilo said:


> nub, niib, n00b, n00bi-wan kenobi, all the same damn thing thx for making yourself look like a internets n00b.
> 
> and as for rampage, he didn't go into that fight with broken ribs rofl, shogun busted them in the first couple of seconds. jesus get your facts straight.


i didnt say "broken " ribs my handicapped little buddy ,i said injured . everyone knows page wasnt 100 percent in that fight if they have half a clue ...just like im sure shogun wasnt in top form when he got his ass handed to him by a tuff fighter , choked out no less lol .:confused02: so you get your facts straight you ignorant little tool .


----------



## GMK13

machida's got this.it wont be close but it will be good.


----------



## coldcall420

MartialArtist_1 said:


> i think this one will be better than Machida vs Evans... just an opinion





jack meoff said:


> i didnt say "broken " ribs my handicapped little buddy ,i said injured . everyone knows page wasnt 100 percent in that fight if they have half a clue ...just like im sure shogun wasnt in top form when he got his ass handed to him by a tuff fighter , choked out no less lol .:confused02: so you get your facts straight you ignorant little tool .


 
LOl...how dare you refer to Forrest as a TUFF fighter.....


----------



## Hellboy

LegTrip said:


> Machida's first title defense is against the worst-stylistic match up against him.. which is bullshit.


How exactly is that bullshit ?


----------



## glowboxboy

Interesting how alot of people are writing off Shogun.He had serious injuries to recover from and is finally healthy,he is still young,and he has a golden opportunity here.I was leaning towards Machida when the fight was announced,but I really think Rua is gonna do it,and If he does I do not think it should be considered an upset.Rua has been in plenty of big fights,and I am guessing that his fitness level will be good in this one,and he will find a way to strike the elusive beast known as The Dragon,on his way to a split decision victory.His cardio is key in this one.



No_Mercy said:


> Don't know why everyone is dismissing Shogun. He was the #1 light heavy weight at one point and he didn't looked too bad in his last fight albeit against an aging fighter. It should be competitive for the first couple of rounds. Wouldn't be surprised if Shogun strikes to try to get a take down. I agree though it would have been nice to see one more dominant fight win before he vyed for the championship belt, still not a bad match up at all. I'm excited!
> 
> Heavyweight bout: Antoni Hardonk vs. Patrick Barry - THIS SHOULD BE A GOOD ONE!


Ok someone in here agrees.I missed your post before I casted out mine.


----------



## T.Bone

Shogun is the man but so is Machida... I have to say Machida takes it, I just hope Shogun comes out like a beast and turns it into a proper fight.

Edit: What a stupid drunken post this was. Ignore.


----------



## The505Butcher

I dont think that Machida is far better than anyone out there. i think that Rashad got caught (could happen to anyone in MMA), Rampage declined to fight rashad, Forrest need a fight before he gets back into contention, and Rua is the next best thing. Machida is good and i think he wins but not by a landslide. I am looking forward to seeing the fight between him and rampage or a rematch with rashad.


----------



## coldcall420

The505Butcher said:


> I dont think that Machida is far better than anyone out there. i think that Rashad got caught (could happen to anyone in MMA), Rampage declined to fight rashad, Forrest need a fight before he gets back into contention, and Rua is the next best thing. Machida is good and i think he wins but not by a landslide. I am looking forward to seeing the fight between him and rampage or a rematch with rashad.


 
welcome dude and enjoy your time on the forum....I agree he beats Shogun, who do you think can beat him if he just happened to catch Rashad???:confused02:


----------



## chilo

jack meoff said:


> i didnt say "broken " ribs my handicapped little buddy ,i said injured . everyone knows page wasnt 100 percent in that fight if they have half a clue ...just like im sure shogun wasnt in top form when he got his ass handed to him by a tuff fighter , choked out no less lol .:confused02: so you get your facts straight you ignorant little tool .


i guess you missed it when QUINTON RAMPAGE JACKSON himself told everyone that Shogun, yes, SHOGUN was the best fighter he had ever faced... /end arguement.


----------



## badboy

Machida's a very tough fighter but I think Shogun's got what it takes to beat the Dragon. Can't wait for it though its going to be one hell of a fight.


----------



## thunderstruck

i think if shogun shows up in top form hes good enough to win maybe 1 round from machida , which no one else has yet to do in the ufc so far ...i cant however see shogun beating lyoto , unless its a one shot ko fluke , which i cant see happening either .


----------



## Rodgerjones

Cant wait to see Ryan Bader fight. Hes one of my fav's to ever come off The show.


----------



## JackAbraham34

I think Shogun is going to win this fight, not just win actually, DOMINATE. I don't know why i just get the vibe of a huge upset:confused02:


----------



## coldcall420

LOL....Dominate....who was the last person that dominated Machida????:confused02:

Oh Wait....no one.....


----------



## steveo412

Shogun is one of my favorite fighters of all time, but I dont think he is going to win this fight. I give him about a 30% chance and thats with me being bias alot. Machida is just too god and seems to be unbeatable at the moment. Machida is the only fighter out there that might give Fedors #1 P4P a run for its money. Right now I have it as Fedor but wouldnt disagree with Machida.


----------



## The505Butcher

coldcall420 said:


> welcome dude and enjoy your time on the forum....I agree he beats Shogun, who do you think can beat him if he just happened to catch Rashad???:confused02:


You know don't get me wrong on that comment. He came in and took advantage of Rashad being cocky again. I also feel a little bit of bias on this because Rashad is from where I live and i have met him and he is pretty cool. I want to see a rematch with Rashad. Rampage could put up a good fight if he stops just swinging for the fences with pretty much all of his strikes. I like Machida and his fighting style a lot. I just think that the 205 belt has not been staying very long on anyones waist lately.

Actually i would want to see a Silva/Machida fight. that would be a fight a biblical proportions!


----------



## KryptoNITE^^

jack meoff said:


> i didnt say "broken " ribs my handicapped little buddy ,i said injured . everyone knows page wasnt 100 percent in that fight if they have half a clue ...just like im sure shogun wasnt in top form when he got his ass handed to him by a tuff fighter , choked out no less lol .:confused02: so you get your facts straight you ignorant little tool .


Can I have this guy's credits? lol


----------



## JackAbraham34

coldcall420 said:


> LOL....Dominate....who was the last person that dominated Machida????:confused02:
> 
> Oh Wait....no one.....


i know, sounds crazy right? But i just get the feeling Shogun is going to catch him early on and ground and pound his ass until a TKO. Just a gut feeling, but ill be over the moon if it happens because i wont look nuts :thumb02:


----------



## prettyboy7

hey whats up


i think theres only one guy who can beat machida and thats rampage, shogun have no chance ko in the first or second round


----------



## coldcall420

JackAbraham34 said:


> i know, sounds crazy right? But i just get the feeling Shogun is going to catch him early on and ground and pound his ass until a TKO. Just a gut feeling, but ill be over the moon if it happens because i wont look nuts :thumb02:


 
Okay....when was the last tuime you saw anyone get Machida on the gound???

Im not bein a nutthugger I just want you to think about what your saying....i mean do you think he's gonna sweep him or toss him to the ground.....

I ask because withoput a doubt machida is prob the most elusive fighter in the UFC....so how do you see Shogun takin him down???


----------



## JackAbraham34

coldcall420 said:


> Okay....when was the last tuime you saw anyone get Machida on the gound???
> 
> Im not bein a nutthugger I just want you to think about what your saying....i mean do you think he's gonna sweep him or toss him to the ground.....
> 
> I ask because withoput a doubt machida is prob the most elusive fighter in the UFC....so how do you see Shogun takin him down???


I dont see Shogun taking him down i just get the feeling he's gonna catch Machida with a punch, knock him down (Yeah it sounds wrong) and GnP :confused02:


----------



## coldcall420

JackAbraham34 said:


> I dont see Shogun taking him down i just get the feeling he's gonna catch Machida with a punch, knock him down (Yeah it sounds wrong) and GnP :confused02:


 
I dont see that as being impossible, it certainly would account for him ending up on the ground and it would put Shogun in perfect position to GnP.....:thumbsup: We dont have too much longer to wait.....only october....LOL

BTW.....welcome to the forum dude its good to have you here if you ever need anything just hit up the staff.....


----------



## JackAbraham34

coldcall420 said:


> I dont see that as being impossible, it certainly would account for him ending up on the ground and it would put Shogun in perfect position to GnP.....:thumbsup: We dont have too much longer to wait.....only october....LOL
> 
> BTW.....welcome to the forum dude its good to have you here if you ever need anything just hit up the staff.....


Yeah, only october :thumb02:

And thanks man, its good to be here:thumbsup:


----------



## SpoKen

My picks no one asked for? Aight.

Light Heavyweight Championship bout: Lyoto Machida (c) vs. Mauricio Rua (Machida, by KO)
Heavyweight bout: Shane Carwin vs. Cain Velasquez (Carwin, by KO
Middleweight bout: Yushin Okami vs. Chael Sonnen (Okami, by UD)
Light Heavyweight bout: Ryan Bader vs. Eric Schafer (Bader, TKO)
Light Heavyweight bout: Razak Al-Hassan vs. Kyle Kingsbury (Razak, KO)
Heavyweight bout: Antoni Hardonk vs. Patrick Barry (Hardonk, TKO)
Welterweight bout: Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida (AJ, brutal KO)
Middleweight bout: Jorge Rivera vs. Rob Kimmons (Jorge, UD)


----------



## N1™

wow. bodogs odds on machida vs shogun 

Lyoto Machida
- 1.19 

Mauricio Rua
- 4.25 

1.19 has to be some of the lowest ive seen


----------



## dlxrevolution

Scorch said:


> Wow. This card is looking really good. I especially cant wait for Machida to get his first defence, and FINALLY to see the unstoppable force, Carwin, battle the immoveable object, Velasquez. This is going to be _good._ :thumb02:


Amen


Sterl said:


> Machida is so far better than anyone in the division, that being said that doesn't mean Shogun can't get the fight on the ground and possibly slip a submission. I see Machida winning the fight by a TKO in the 3rd round.


Amen

I honestly dont see anyone being able to beat Lyoto Machida. Theres only 2 ways I see Machida losing his title:

1. he gets in a car accedent and is paralyzed from the waist down. Therefore, vacating the light heavywieght title.

2. He gets shot.

Thats it. His stand up striking is far more technically advanced than anyone in the division. No one has ever been able to figuer him out, there for, Shogun Rua wont be able to figuer him out. I see it Machida by TKO, mabey in the 1st or 2nd round.

As for Shane Carwin vs Cain Valasquez, thats going to be a very tough fight. I'm leaning a little bit towards Shane Carwin in this one, but if Cain Valasquez does beat shane Carwin, I wont be suprized.

So i think Shane will win, but I highly dought he will beat Cain in the first round. If he runs through Cain Valasquez in the 1st round, then theres absolutly no way Brock lesnar will beat him. But I dont care who you are, you're not going to run through Cain Valasquez.

Shane Carwin by 3 rd UD


----------



## Bruce Buffer

I think Machida will stop shogun in 2 rounds and Rampage will knock Rashad out then at the start of next year Machida and Rampage will be a war..


----------



## Orangester

Lyoto is going to wreck Shogun. It'll be a boring fight, then out of nowhere Lyoto is going to KO or TKO Shogun with a series of well executed combos.


----------



## Baby Jay D.

Machida is gonna tool Shogun if Shogun wants to trade with him. He finish him early him early if the fight stays on the feet. 

I hope for Shoguns sake, he's training a lot of TD's and BJJ because standing he'll be toast. Machida's just the worst match-up for Shogun, stand-up wise.


----------



## Guymay

This card looking so ******* good ...

Can't wait for Bader fight liked him alot on TUF 
also good to see okami again .


----------



## Breath

Hypothetical question. How will Machida do in the Ring instead of Octagon? I know he has fought in the ring before but I'm talking about against guys like Rampage,Shogun,Jardine,etc.

My opinion is that Machida in ring is still dangerous but not as in the octagon.


----------



## Breath

Baby Jay D. said:


> I hope for Shoguns sake, he's training a lot of TD's and BJJ because standing he'll be toast. Machida's just the worst match-up for Shogun, stand-up wise.


I don't even think Shogun is going to have a chance to take Shogun down. I think if Shogun tries to do that, Machida will take HIM down like he did against Tito.


----------



## Evil Ira

Guymay said:


> also good to see okami again .


Honestly, I don't know how Chael Sonnen deserves a fight with him. He sat in Dan Miller's guard for an abysmal 15 minutes.


----------



## Breath

Evil Ira said:


> Honestly, I don't know how Chael Sonnen deserves a fight with him. He sat in Dan Miller's guard for an abysmal 15 minutes.


I'd like to see Okami/Nate or Okami/Maia


----------



## coldcall420

Breath said:


> Hypothetical question. How will Machida do in the Ring instead of Octagon? I know he has fought in the ring before but I'm talking about against guys like Rampage,Shogun,Jardine,etc.
> 
> My opinion is that Machida in ring is still dangerous but not as in the octagon.


 
Take for example when he fought Rashad....they were in the clinch and Machida rushed him and went for the toss which he would have gotten if the cage wasnt there.....

A ring would actually have been a benefit in that situation......


----------



## Breath

^^^ I was thinking more in terms of how Machida uses his footwork in striking.

I think Machida's footwork can reach full potential in a huge wide place like Octagon instead of the ring. Machida's striking is all about distance and timing.

I don't think he will be as effective in the ring as in octagon. But he should still do well though.

I don't have the exact number but I know that Octagon is HUGE compared with ring.


----------



## N1™

Evil Ira said:


> Honestly, I don't know how Chael Sonnen deserves a fight with him. He sat in Dan Miller's guard *for an abysmal 15 minutes*.



*shivers* i literally vomited during that fight


----------



## Breath

Not as bad as Sanchez/Kos fight though. If you had vomited on that fight, this fight will make you puke out all your internal organs out.


----------



## neoseeker

I'm hoping Shogun shows up in shape and hungry. I like Machida as a person and fighter but his fan base is getting to me. What is going to happen if Shogun exposes Machida's weakness(es) ? Are we moving to Jon Jones then ?


----------



## Breath

neoseeker said:


> I'm hoping Shogun shows up in shape and hungry. I like Machida as a person and fighter but his fan base is getting to me. What is going to happen if Shogun exposes Machida's weakness(es) ? Are we moving to Jon Jones then ?


You're not making sense. It's just fans that's all. Fedor's gotta fanbase. You don't think some people are annoyed by that?

You don't think some people were annoyed by Hughes and Chuck back in the day?

With the way Machida has been fighting, not to mention his undefeated record,he deserves the fanbase. 

If anything, if he doesn't have any fan base at this point, then UFC isn't doing it's job. Think about it.


----------



## coldcall420

neoseeker said:


> I'm hoping Shogun shows up in shape and hungry. I like Machida as a person and fighter but his fan base is getting to me. What is going to happen if Shogun exposes Machida's weakness(es) ? Are we moving to Jon Jones then ?


 
What are Machida's weaknesses??? What holes do you see???:confused02:


----------



## The Don

coldcall420 said:


> What are Machida's weaknesses??? What holes do you see???:confused02:



I was going to ask the same question.. BJJ black belt.. Karate Black Belt.. He wrestled if I recall.. what weaknesses does he have.. ???:confused02:


----------



## coldcall420

The Don said:


> I was going to ask the same question.. BJJ black belt.. Karate Black Belt.. He wrestled if I recall.. what weaknesses does he have.. ???:confused02:


 

Plus Judo.....since young....is that you Don in the avy???? Its me in mine...lol


----------



## N1™

coldcall420 said:


> Plus Judo.....since young....is that you Don in the avy???? Its me in mine...lol


sumo..

ps yes kos vs sanchez was bad


----------



## coldcall420

N1™;962107 said:


> sumo..
> 
> ps yes kos vs sanchez was bad


 
Yes sir N-1 your correct I meant Sumo....and im on the way to get some coffee right now to get out of this fog.......


----------



## Breath

Machida's gotta good reflex,timing, and footwork but I think he's best weapon is his eyes. He sees openings on fighters that 99% of the fighters won't see.

Not only that, he doesn't make big motions before he attacks like boxers and muay thai guys.


----------



## deansheppard

If the old shogun returns to this fight it would be an epic fight still hoping Lyoto takes it though.

Shane Carwin vs Cain Valasquez should be killer, i got my mony on Carwin!

Finnaly, I hope Yoshida takes his win

They are the 3 fights im looking forward to!


----------



## Devil_Bingo

Light Heavyweight Championship bout: *Lyoto Machida *(c) vs. Mauricio Rua
Heavyweight bout: *Shane Carwin* vs. Cain Velasquez
Middleweight bout: *Yushin Okami* vs. Chael Sonnen
Light Heavyweight bout: *Ryan Bader* vs. Eric Schafer
Light Heavyweight bout: Razak Al-Hassan vs. *Kyle Kingsbury*
Heavyweight bout:* Antoni Hardonk* vs. Patrick Barry
Welterweight bout: *Anthony Johnson* vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida
Middleweight bout: *Jorge Rivera *vs. Rob Kimmons

Don't see why Shogun is getting a title shot. Sure he's won 2 of his 3 fights in UFC but against who? Mark Coleman who is beyond past prime and Chuck Liddell who now has a glass chin.


----------



## coldcall420

Devil_Bingo said:


> Light Heavyweight Championship bout: *Lyoto Machida *(c) vs. Mauricio Rua
> Heavyweight bout: *Shane Carwin* vs. Cain Velasquez
> Middleweight bout: *Yushin Okami* vs. Chael Sonnen
> Light Heavyweight bout: *Ryan Bader* vs. Eric Schafer
> Light Heavyweight bout: Razak Al-Hassan vs. *Kyle Kingsbury*
> Heavyweight bout:* Antoni Hardonk* vs. Patrick Barry
> Welterweight bout: *Anthony Johnson* vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida
> Middleweight bout: *Jorge Rivera *vs. Rob Kimmons
> 
> Don't see why Shogun is getting a title shot. Sure he's won 2 of his 3 fights in UFC but against who? Mark Coleman who is beyond past prime and Chuck Liddell who now has a glass chin.


 
I see it exactly the same way.......:thumbsup:


----------



## Breath

Devil_Bingo said:


> Don't see why Shogun is getting a title shot. Sure he's won 2 of his 3 fights in UFC but against who? Mark Coleman who is beyond past prime and Chuck Liddell who now has a glass chin.


I tend to agree but hey, MMA is all about match ups right. I think Machida is going to win but lets see what happens.


----------



## steveo412

Devil_Bingo said:


> Light Heavyweight Championship bout: *Lyoto Machida *(c) vs. Mauricio Rua
> Heavyweight bout: *Shane Carwin* vs. Cain Velasquez
> Middleweight bout: *Yushin Okami* vs. Chael Sonnen
> Light Heavyweight bout: *Ryan Bader* vs. Eric Schafer
> Light Heavyweight bout: Razak Al-Hassan vs. *Kyle Kingsbury*
> Heavyweight bout:* Antoni Hardonk* vs. Patrick Barry
> Welterweight bout: *Anthony Johnson* vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida
> Middleweight bout: *Jorge Rivera *vs. Rob Kimmons
> 
> Don't see why Shogun is getting a title shot. Sure he's won 2 of his 3 fights in UFC but against who? Mark Coleman who is beyond past prime and Chuck Liddell who now has a glass chin.



I agree except I think Kingsbury and Hardonk will lose.

Shogun is getting the shot because there is nobody else. Like nobody else at all. Most top LHWs are coming off of a loss and Rampage and Rashad are doing the show. Shogun was a good pick because really there is nobody else.


----------



## neoseeker

Breath said:


> You're not making sense. It's just fans that's all. Fedor's gotta fanbase. You don't think some people are annoyed by that?
> 
> You don't think some people were annoyed by Hughes and Chuck back in the day?
> 
> With the way Machida has been fighting, not to mention his undefeated record,he deserves the fanbase.
> 
> If anything, if he doesn't have any fan base at this point, then UFC isn't doing it's job. Think about it.


Breath, I feel that after Machida's last two knockout victories a lot of people jumped in his bandwagon when we know very well before that he was considered a boring fighter. Not all Machida fans are obnoxious, only the ones that just recently jumped in his bandwagon and are talking like they always knew how good he was.


----------



## neoseeker

coldcall420 said:


> What are Machida's weaknesses??? What holes do you see???:confused02:


Coldcold420, there is no perfect fighter. They all have some weakness or hole in their game. Although Machida is undefeated we still have not seen him in trouble. How will he react if he is hit hard in the face or taken down by a very good BJJ practitioner that sort of things.


----------



## Breath

neoseeker said:


> Breath, I feel that after Machida's last two knockout victories a lot of people jumped in his bandwagon when we know very well before that he was considered a boring fighter. Not all Machida fans are obnoxious, only the ones that just recently jumped in his bandwagon and are talking like they always knew how good he was.


First of all, I am not one of those people. It's not like I watched him fight Bonner or Franklin back in the day but I have been watching him since he came over here. I thought his fight against David Heath was entertaining when lot of people thought it was boring.

Second, you can’t really blame those people that just got on the band wagon. Some people would consider me one of those people since I probably wasn’t even watching MMA when he fought for the very first time. 

I do see your point. Those same people that wasn’t on Machida band wagon pre-Thiago Silva fights are now jumping into it. Although I hope they understand that Machida is not just about KO, I know some won’t. 

I hope those people will understand that Machida was NOT boring pre-Thiago Silva fights, I know some won’t.

But I also have to say that having casual fans is better than no fans. I also understand that there are LOT of casual fans and UFC ( and Machida) need those casual fans. He has earned it by finishing off Thiago and Rashad.

I do understand that there are some obnoxious fans but….how is that different than obnoxious Shougun fans, obnoxious Fedor fans, obnoxious Wanderlei fans, etc?


----------



## rsquared1769

Shogun may be starting his return, being completely healed and back in shape, but Shogun's aggressive style plays right into Machida's style. That being his elusive, counter-striking style.


----------



## neoseeker

Although Shogun's agressive style could backfire on him, that could also play to be the decisive difference. The truth is no one really know how things are going to play out. We'll have to wait until the fight.


----------



## coldcall420

neoseeker said:


> Coldcold420, there is no perfect fighter. They all have some weakness or hole in their game. Although Machida is undefeated we still have not seen him in trouble. How will he react if he is hit hard in the face or taken down by a very good BJJ practitioner that sort of things.


 

The same way he has reacted in past fights you may not have seen prior to him joining the UFC.......he will implement his BJJ....He has a Black belt that he has been perfecting since 2007, and he is in no way a slouch on the ground.....please dont mention the Tito triangle cuz that wasnt gonna finish the fight and he was slipping out as well.....

Ed Soares who manages Machida and Anderson said about Anderson, he has a great ground game its just his striking is so good you never see it.....

Well he could say that about Lyoto too....

I know there is no perfect fighter neoseeker, I just asked someone that said his weakness's will be exposed to tell what that weakness is.....

Alhough we might have seen it against Forrest the other night.......:thumbsup:


Perfection was never mentioned......


BTW....welcome to the forum dude good to have you......


----------



## Davisty69

My two cents...

I call Machida, by TKO, in round 2.

That is all.


----------



## mmajudo

I think, yoshiyuki yoshida will win the fight - i like his style

http://www.mmajudo.net/warriors.php


----------



## three4nine05

I like Machida also. If he wins it should be Silva vs. Machida in UFC 106 or 107 or something.


----------



## Davisty69

mmajudo said:


> I think, yoshiyuki yoshida will win the fight - i like his style
> 
> http://www.mmajudo.net/warriors.php


What does this have to do with Machida vs. Shogun?


----------



## Devil_Bingo

Machida will definetly win this fight. 

As for Anderson vs. Machida there is a weakness in Silva thats his wrestling. Henderson exposed it but it was Silva's BJJ that beat Henderson. So Machida should use wrestling skills if they fight (i say IF because Silva doesn't want to fight him.)


----------



## Califighter

When did Shogun earn the title fight? By knocking out Chuck? I think that this will be a bad fight for Shogun. But then again I am biased because I love Lyoto. However. Lyoto is too good at striking for Shogun. Shogun has power. But Lyoto doesn't get hit. This will be a fun fight to watch. However? Carwin vs Cain. I can not wait for that fight. That is the one I am really going to be paying for. MY money is on Cain.



N1™ said:


> ( poster not available )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> October 24, 2009
> Staples Center
> Los Angeles, CA
> 
> 
> *Announced matchups :*
> 
> *Light Heavyweight Championship bout: Lyoto Machida (c) vs. Mauricio Rua
> Heavyweight bout: Shane Carwin vs. Cain Velasquez
> Middleweight bout: Yushin Okami vs. Chael Sonnen
> Light Heavyweight bout: Ryan Bader vs. Eric Schafer
> Light Heavyweight bout: Razak Al-Hassan vs. Kyle Kingsbury
> Heavyweight bout: Antoni Hardonk vs. Patrick Barry
> Welterweight bout: Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida
> Middleweight bout: Jorge Rivera vs. Rob Kimmons*​


----------



## Davisty69

Califighter said:


> *When did Shogun earn the title fight? By knocking out Chuck?* I think that this will be a bad fight for Shogun. But then again I am biased because I love Lyoto. However. Lyoto is too good at striking for Shogun. Shogun has power. But Lyoto doesn't get hit. This will be a fun fight to watch. However? Carwin vs Cain. I can not wait for that fight. That is the one I am really going to be paying for. MY money is on Cain.


This has been talked about a lot. Basically, he got the title shot because he is the next one on the list that isn't already scheduled for a different fight. It isn't necessarily about being the most deserving, but about being the only one available.


----------



## Califighter

Oh I see. I just want to see what else Lyoto can do so I guess I don't really care who he fights, Just as long as he keeps fighting.



Davisty69 said:


> This has been talked about a lot. Basically, he got the title shot because he is the next one on the list that isn't already scheduled for a different fight. It isn't necessarily about being the most deserving, but about being the only one available.


----------



## SSD

I call Lyoto by TKO at the start of the second round. That is all. Then Rogan, after the fight in the post fight interview, will ask if Lyoto will fight Anderson and Lyoto will say no. We will cry--the end.


----------



## No_Mercy

Actually hope it goes to at least three full rounds of war. We all know Shogun will push the pace, but can he last? Not long ago he was touted as the top LHW. Great match up though. Pretty sure it'll go to Lyoto. He just doesn't make many mistakes if any at all other than getting triangled almost by bobble head. Come to think of it Lyoto is like a praying mantis. He can wait around all night patiently then strike. Takes discipline to do that. On the other hand A. Silva comes at you anytime he wants to finish you off. What a fight that would be...


----------



## HarryN_MMA

Cannot wait to see Anthony Johnson back, not to mention Machida vs "Shogun" AND Carwin vs Velasquez HUGE card.


----------



## The_Sandman

Machida is going to wipe the floor with Shogun. I will give credit that Rua KO'd Liddell, but Liddell was already on his "way-out." His outing with Coleman, was not impressive.... and that fact that he lost to Forrest Griffin does not help either. 

The matchup between Carwin and Velasques is going to be awsome. I hope Cain pulls out the victory. :smoke01:


----------



## Mattitude

i think that this 104 ufc card as mentioned is very...and i say very HUGE...

can't wait to se Machida, i think he'll win not easly but will win against Shogun


----------



## VolcomX311

The best fight in the LHW is the fight Silva has refused to fight. This sort of causes some disinterest in the LHW class in general, knowing that the Champ and number one contender (Silva) will never fight each other. At least not genuinely. Dana might coerce Lyoto and Silva to fight, but if you have two evasive and defensive fighters hesitant to strike each other, bring a pillow.


----------



## coldcall420

VolcomX311 said:


> The best fight in the LHW is the fight Silva has refused to fight. This sort of causes some disinterest in the LHW class in general, knowing that the Champ and number one contender (Silva) will never fight each other. At least not genuinely. Dana might coerce Lyoto and Silva to fight, but if you have two evasive and defensive fighters hesitant to strike each other, bring a pillow.


 
I agree or I SHOULD SAY I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM.....hOWEVER, lYOTO WILL BRING IT....HE JUST HISTORICALLY HAS HAD MORE PATIENCE THAN ANY OPPONENT HE HAS EVER FACED he just waits for them to come to him and eventually they do....

If they do not come to him, or if he feels the opening is there he will take it, case and point Thiago Silva......Lyoto said and knew going into that fight he would use that aggression against Silva but there wasn't much pressure from Thiago......so lyoto brought the pressure and if you go and watch any of his fights you will always see a guy looking for a specific angle and over commitment by his opponent and BOOM he strikes......

As far as Anderson is concerned, I think he would bring it against lyoto but it would take time for sure for things to open up and really get going......once that happens you must understand with two individuals that have such respect and discipline....they are going to want to be victorious in each of their respective Arts....Lyoto with his Karate and Silva with that filthy Muay Thai.....

I think they would be a great fight and if "made" to fight would not dissapoint.....

All this of course is MHO.....:thumbsup:

BTW....welcome to the forum dude enjoy your time here and if you need anything just hit up the staff.....

CC420:thumb02:


P.S.....Its in capital cuz I accidently hit the caps lock and was too lazy to go back and re-type.........:confused05:


----------



## Macho Man

shogun 1st round ko


----------



## dudeabides

Since Rothwell is stepping up to fight Velasquez, Gormley's new opponent is going to be Stefan Struve



> Heavyweight prospect Stefan Struve will fill the void left by Ben Rothwell and take on UFC newcomer, Chase Gormley, on the under card of UFC 104, according to Fighters Only.
> 
> The recent heavyweight shuffling has seen Ben Rothwell step up to take on Cain Velasquez as his original opponent, Shane Carwin, was promoted to a title shot against the current UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar at UFC 106.
> 
> Struve earned his first UFC win by defeating Denis Stojnic at UFC 99 in June. He lost to Junior dos Santos in his UFC debut just 4 events prior. The Dutch youngster has finished 13 of his 17 career wins by submission and holds notable wins over Colin Robinson and Mario Neto.
> 
> Gormley has yet to compete in 2009 as he's been inactive since defeating Eric Pele at MFC 16 last May. Since his pro debut in April 2007, Gormley has put together an undefeated 6-0 MMA record, with 2 wins by TKO and 2 by submission. He holds a notable win over Elite XC veteran Jon Murphy.
> 
> UFC 104 takes place on October 24 from the Staples Center in Los Angeles, California. The event will be headlined by a light-heavyweight title bout between current UFC light-heavyweight champ Lyoto Machida and challenger Mauricio "Shogun" Rua.


http://www.fiveknuckles.com/mma-news/Stefan-Struve-steps-in-to-face-Chase-Gormley-at-UFC-104.html


----------



## marecat41

Honestly this is going to be a great ppv. Great matches and I am hoping that Rua v. Machida is a fight to the death. Also Heavyweight bout: Shane Carwin vs. Cain Velasquez is a big fight and I feel as though both of these guys will give Lesnar trouble.


----------



## N1™

man this card is sick.

2 of my favourite fighters are on this, cain and lyoto !!!


----------



## JackAbraham34

Does nobody else here think that Shogun might genuinely have a shot at this ?


----------



## coldcall420

JackAbraham34 said:


> Does nobody else here think that Shogun might genuinely have a shot at this ?


 
Tons of people just go back through the thread.....:thumbsup:


----------



## jennathebenda

Machedia via opps was that your face?


----------



## M.C

Shogun has a chance at beating Machida. The chance is low, but, still a chance.


----------



## coldcall420

I have a chance of banging Vida Guerra down here on South Beach....but it aint gonna happen.....:confused05:


----------



## M.C

Exactly.

Shogun CAN win, I mean, it is possible..

However! I don't see it happening, as Machida has an advantage in every aspect except BJJ, and even then, Machida has a black belt in BJJ.


----------



## Davisty69

Michael Carson said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Shogun CAN win, I mean, it is possible..
> 
> However! I don't see it happening, as Machida has an advantage in every aspect except BJJ, and even then, Machida has a black belt in BJJ.


Exactly. We don't know that Shogun has the advantage in BJJ, we just assume that because he never needs to use it.


----------



## VolcomX311

JackAbraham34 said:


> Does nobody else here think that Shogun might genuinely have a shot at this ?


I give him a 35-40% chance :thumb02:


----------



## gaz_berserk

N1™ said:


> *Announced matchups :*
> 
> *Light Heavyweight Championship bout: Lyoto Machida (c) vs Mauricio Rua
> Heavyweight bout: Cain Velasquez vs. Ben Rothwell
> Lightweight bout: Joe Stevenson vs. Spencer Fisher
> Light Heavyweight bout: Ryan Bader vs. Eric Schafer
> Middleweight bout: Yushin Okami vs. Chael Sonnen
> Lightweight bout: Sean Sherk vs. Gleison Tibau
> Light Heavyweight bout: Razak Al-Hassan vs. Kyle Kingsbury
> Heavyweight bout: Antoni Hardonk vs. Patrick Barry
> Welterweight bout: Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida
> Middleweight bout: Jorge Rivera vs. Rob Kimmons
> Heavyweight bout: Chase Gormley vs. Stefan Struve *[/CENTER]


Machida will win by decision
Velasquez win by tko
Stevenson win by submisison
Bader win by decision
Okami win by decision
Sherk win by decision
Al-Hassan win by split decision
Hardonk win by submission
Johnson win by KO
Rivera win by decision
Gormley win by tko


----------



## Macho Man

shogun is going to win via 1st round tko, i know it makes people mad when i say this but rest assured it will happen


----------



## Xerxes

Gotta love this poster:


----------



## coldcall420

Pumped big time......:thumbsup:


----------



## Devil_Bingo

Seems as though it's going to be waiting for a while.


----------



## enceledus

I can't wait to see Machida fight again. I'm loving this guy right now. raise01: Lyoto


----------



## N1™

poster added ( bigger than the one on this page )

honestly i think they should just drop the colored machida/shogun in the foreground

_________________________________________

all these fights :

Sean Sherk vs. Gleison Tibau
Joe Stevenson vs. Spencer Fisher
Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida 

being on the main card instead of Yushin Okami vs. Chael Sonnen is seriously a slap in the face to Okami. If this stands it has to be one of the most unfair decisions ever by the guys that set up the fightcard


----------



## fever

Id love to see the dragon vs the spider id have no idea who id want to win tho i love both these fighters so much machida was the reason i got into the ufc as he was fighting at ufc 98 and he was really entertaining. Since then i have been doing my best to watch my old fights and learn about all the fighters.



VolcomX311 said:


> I give him a 35-40% chance :thumb02:


is that to land a punch  because the odds are a little high for him winning, just kidding


----------



## UsqueAdFinem

I'll be there to see the fight of the year. 

Since Carwin vs. Cain got canceled and Sherk got injured I have been disappointed though, it's like the card is getting worse.


----------



## georgie17891

how is okami on the undercard. I thought he was in the top 5 in the middleweight


----------



## PanicDisorder

I hope Machida owns him!!!


----------



## jdig_theanimal

wow 2 idols of mine but as much as i love shogun and have followed him over the years i feel this will be another w to mark up for lyoto hes just too smart and has improved so much fight by fight and adapts so quickly and almost reminds me of silva as far as mentality goes and having that bruce lee mentality that machida and silva have is a huge advatage over any fighter

machida forsure


----------



## LCRaiders

I think its going to be a very interesting matchup with Machida vs. Shogun..

I wanna see what Shogun is going to do different from everyone else..


----------



## coldcall420

LCRaiders said:


> I think its going to be a very interesting matchup with Machida vs. Shogun..
> 
> I wanna see what Shogun is going to do different from everyone else..


 
Last longer....:thumbsup:

CC420


----------



## warchild75

shogun sucks man,cant wait to see Machida dodge his spinning kicks them drop him!!!


----------



## jennathebenda

Enjoy! :thumb02:


----------



## baw4ua

im interested to see what approach shogun takes at machida...WAR SHOGUN!


----------



## LCRaiders

coldcall420 said:


> Last longer....:thumbsup:
> 
> CC420


That is if Shogun's cardio isn't a issue anymore..


----------



## M.C

This will be Shogun's fate.


----------



## N1™

cleaned up and updated


----------



## GriffinFanKY

Card is not really that good Lyoto/Shogun is somewhat interesting but I think Machida will run through Shogun.Rothwell/Cain is a huge stepdown from Carwin/Cain and really the only undercard fight that I am excited about is Joe Steveson and Spencer Fisher hopefully Fisher can pull off the upset.


----------



## DropKicker

baw4ua said:


> im interested to see what approach shogun takes at machida...WAR SHOGUN!


yep WAR SHOGUN!!!!


----------



## LCRaiders

As much as I would love to see the old Shogun come back and take over the LHW division, it just won’t happen. Ever since he broke his arm against Coleman he’s be a different fighter. Machida is going to walk all over him..


----------



## VolcomX311

LCRaiders said:


> As much as I would love to see the old Shogun come back and take over the LHW division, it just won’t happen. Ever since he broke his arm against Coleman he’s be a different fighter. Machida is going to walk all over him..


UNLEEEESSSSS!!!..... nevermind... :confused05: Imagine how much the Black House stock would go up if in theory, Big Nog was HW champ, Lyoto at LHW and Anderson as true MW champ. One school with three ruling champs, that would be beyond insane. Clearly the Big Nog as HW champ is pure, unadulterated fantasy, but the theoretic(s) of the situation is crazy, especially considering it's 3/4's fulfilled.


----------



## streetpunk08

I think Shogun has a real shot at this, he's athletic and has a very well-rounded skillset, mixes his strikes up very well and he's explosive, if Shogun caught Machida in round 1 or 2 and put Machida on his ass it would not surprise me in the least


----------



## VolcomX311

streetpunk08 said:


> I think Shogun has a real shot at this, he's athletic and has a very well-rounded skillset, mixes his strikes up very well and he's explosive, if Shogun caught Machida in round 1 or 2 and put Machida on his ass it would not surprise me in the least


I don't doubt that if Shogun can catch Machida, Shogun could do some damage, but everyone one of Machida's opponents has had the most issue with the whole, "being able to catch him," part. 

I'm not really arguing "for" Machida, I'm rather indifferent as to who wins between the two, but with Machida, it's not so much "that he wins" his fights, it's the fashion in which he wins them. 

There are a lot of fights where afterward you can say to yourself, it could have gone either way, buuut, this or that happened and the winner would probably win 7/10 times. However, when Machida wins, it's like, well, so & so had nothing he could have done :confused02: 

I didn't really start following Machida until his Tito fight, but since then, I don't see anyone that he's beaten that would make for an interesting rematch. The only obvious choice as to who would make a good opponent for him is too busy calling out Roy Jones, Jr. and Brock Lesnar, both of which makes me thinks AS shrooms. Otherwise, we've all had that discussion between the Black House brothers, so we'll see.


----------



## coldcall420

streetpunk08 said:


> I think Shogun has a real shot at this, he's athletic and has a very well-rounded skillset, mixes his strikes up very well and he's explosive, if Shogun caught Machida in round 1 or 2 and put Machida on his ass it would not surprise me in the least


 
This I could potentially see happening.....POTENTIALLY....


If it were to happen I would assume that Lyoto would have to be in guard as Shogun would attack him on the ground....

This is no real advantage at this point if it were to happen for Shogun as Lyoto's BJJ is more than adequate to deal with Rua....

However, I feel like its more likely we'll see that both men want to stand in this fight......

CC420


----------



## michelangelo

I want to believe this as well. I want to see a great, drawn out battle. But, I thought (or at least hoped) Rashad was athletic and savvy enough with Greg Jackson to test Lyoto, too. And we saw what happened there. It's MMA, so anything can happen, but Lyoto is very difficult to catch up to. He's got to have the quickest reflexes in MMA. 



streetpunk08 said:


> *I think Shogun has a real shot at this*, he's athletic and has a very well-rounded skillset, mixes his strikes up very well and he's explosive, if Shogun caught Machida in round 1 or 2 and put Machida on his ass it would not surprise me in the least


----------



## M.C

Shogun is going to make some big mistakes in this fight, as he does most fights. The difference is being Machida can capitalize on it. I don't see anything that Shogun has to offer that's going to put Machida in danger. On paper, Shogun has a terrible style for Machida, and once you break down each if their abilities inside the octagon as well, he still has a terrible style to go up against Machida. 

With that said, even with a "good" style for Machida, fighters can't get anything off, much less when they are tailor made to be finished by him.

Shogun is a top fighter at 205, but it's like: OK, let's put in Machida who has the best countering in MMA right now, who has great speed, amazing timing, great movement, a solid BJJ black belt and a guy who can put a wrestler like Tito on his back with ease, against Shogun, a guy who throws looping punches, who moves forward a lot, who leaves himself open a lot, has questionable cardio. 

This fight is going to go like the Thiago fight, except not nearly as pathetic of course. It'll end with Machida finding a spot for his straight left and putting Shogun down as he's coming in or while he's throwing one of his wide punches. Machida attacks while you attack and move, not before or after(although he can do that as well), which is why people don't attack him often and have "boring" fights. They know if they attack, he can counter WHILE they attack and put them down. Shogun is in trouble here, as he is very sloppy and leaves himself open a great deal when he attacks.

Bad, tough fight for Shogun.


----------



## Freiermuth

VolcomX311 said:


> UNLEEEESSSSS!!!..... nevermind... :confused05: Imagine how much the Black House stock would go up if in theory, Big Nog was HW champ, Lyoto at LHW and Anderson as true MW champ. One school with three ruling champs, that would be beyond insane. Clearly the Big Nog as HW champ is pure, unadulterated fantasy, but the theoretic(s) of the situation is crazy, especially considering it's 3/4's fulfilled.


JDS is knocking at the door too! Dude is quick and hits hard...not too heavy compared to Brock (or Carwin) but still really solid.

Nothing against Lyoto, but I'm still pulling for Shogun in this one.


----------



## VolcomX311

Freiermuth said:


> JDS is knocking at the door too! Dude is quick and hits hard...not too heavy compared to Brock (or Carwin) but still really solid.
> 
> Nothing against Lyoto, but I'm still pulling for Shogun in this one.


I'm in a good situation with this fight. I think I'll have a positive reaction to either fighter winning. I think I'm 45/55 with Lyoto and Shogun, as to who I'm pulling for, but unsure as to which one I slightly like more. 

Neutral stance on an exciting fight, so it's pure entertainment for me on this one, no gray hairs from anxiety.


----------



## name goes here

I notice a relation between believing Shogun will get it, and being a new member... 

Yoshiyuki Yoshida > Anthony Johnson? Someone said it... I'm going with Anthony, as long as he remembers to close his eyes when the fingers get close lol.

Pat Barry because Hardonk sucks

Cain because Rothwell looks not so awesome imo

Ryan Badar because Schafer sucks

Joe because whatshisname sucks, Caol just looked undersized

Yushin because he crushes all between his abs (That image would be the greatest sig)

But Yushin and Lyoto are the only bets I'm really confident with.


----------



## MexHaHaHa

(W)Lyoto Machida (c) vs Mauricio Rua[1]
(W)Cain Velasquez vs. Ben Rothwell 
(W)Gleison Tibau vs. Josh Neer
(W)Joe Stevenson vs. Spencer Fisher
Anthony Johnson vs. (W)Yoshiyuki Yoshida


(W)Yushin Okami vs. Chael Sonnen
(W)Antoni Hardonk vs. Patrick Barry
Jorge Rivera vs. Rob Kimmons (?)
(W)Ryan Bader vs. Eric Schafer
Kyle Kingsbury vs. Razak Al-Hassan (?)
Stefan Struve vs. Chase Gormley (?)

First time I'll attempt at guessing the fights!


----------



## name goes here

Why are people liking Yoshida at all?


----------



## mattreis324

Why isn't Yushin Okami vs. Chael Sonnen on the main card?


----------



## T.Bone

I think this'll be a really entertaining card. Machida will wtake the decision IMO, but for some reason I see Shogun making it harder for him than any-one else Lyoto's fought so far.


----------



## DropKicker

coldcall420 said:


> This I could potentially see happening.....POTENTIALLY....
> 
> 
> If it were to happen I would assume that Lyoto would have to be in guard as Shogun would attack him on the ground....
> 
> This is no real advantage at this point if it were to happen for Shogun as Lyoto's BJJ is more than adequate to deal with Rua....
> 
> However, I feel like its more likely we'll see that both men want to stand in this fight......
> 
> CC420



So you're finally admitting to my theory that Machida can fall victim to Shogun once they hit the ground.  Don't forget, not only in his guard but also in Shogun's guard he could get submitted. ahaha I don't want to bring up the Tito triangle again...but anyways you know what i'm trying to say. So are we still going to wager our credits? If so I wanna see what the odds are first, and we'll go by that since I know Machida is going to be heavily favored...


----------



## BrianRClover

Great card! And taking place on my 28th Birthday!:thumb02:

I really wish they would drop both of those lighweight bouts off the main card and move up Pat Barry and Yushin Okamis fights.


----------



## coldcall420

streetpunk08 said:


> I think Shogun has a real shot at this, he's athletic and has a very well-rounded skill set, mixes his strikes up very well and he's explosive, if Shogun caught Machida in round 1 or 2 and put Machida on his ass it would not surprise me in the least





coldcall420 said:


> This I could potentially see happening.....POTENTIALLY....
> 
> 
> If it were to happen I would assume that Lyoto would have to be in guard as Shogun would attack him on the ground....
> 
> *This is no real advantage at this point if it were to happen for Shogun as Lyoto's BJJ is more than adequate to deal with Rua....*
> 
> However, I feel like its more likely we'll see that both men want to stand in this fight......
> 
> CC420





DropKicker said:


> *So you're finally admitting to my theory that Machida can fall victim to Shogun once they hit the ground.  Don't forget, not only in his guard but also in Shogun's guard he could get submitted*. ahaha I don't want to bring up the Tito triangle again...but anyways you know what I'm trying to say. So are we still going to wager our credits? If so I wanna see what the odds are first, and we'll go by that since I know Machida is going to be heavily favored...


I think the bold clearly indicates that your assumption is again just that...an assumption....LOL.....U R persistant...

Your excellent at jumping to conclusions but me saying that potentially Shogun could catch Machida with a looping blow is just that.....Potential...First if he catches Lyoto its much more likely Lyoto would be in guard....not Shogun.

Regardless, as stated above and bold, there is no real advantage for Shogun in this position as Lyoto is more than adequate to deal with it, the thing that makes me sad.......is peoples inability to believe the ground game is there just cuz they haven't seen it in the UFC...it has been displayed in the past and is certainly fine tunned......

BTW...Dropkicker I bolded the part of your post I'm referring to....

Why are you so sure that as long as it goes to the ground Shogun will win???

Shogun has 1 sub win on his record and 2 losses....

Lyoto has 2 sub victories with no losses......:confused02:

TBH, none of that matters because the key word being potentially and I doubt it will happen.....nice reach though:thumbsup:

CC420


EDIT: Happy early B-Day Brian Glover.....


----------



## steveo412

Most of shoguns wins on the ground arent submissions. He has a lot of Tko wins from GnP.


----------



## coldcall420

steveo412 said:


> Most of shoguns wins on the ground aren't submissions. He has a lot of Tko wins from GnP.


 
Dropkicker raised the submission thing....I still dont think it goes to the ground steve.......if it does there will be no GnP on Lyoto, he wont be on the ground, if they do hit Lyoto will prob try to stand quickly....:thumbsup:

CC420


----------



## steveo412

coldcall420 said:


> Dropkicker raised the submission thing....I still dont think it goes to the ground steve.......if it does there will be no GnP on Lyoto, he wont be on the ground, if they do hit Lyoto will prob try to stand quickly....:thumbsup:
> 
> CC420


If it does go to the ground this is what he has to look out for though Shogun can have a vicious attack from the top. even though his skillset and the way he used to win alot of fights is limited by the difference in rules between UFC and Pride. Either way I think he is going to have a hard time taking it to the ground if he even tries to.


----------



## coldcall420

steveo412 said:


> *If it does go to the ground this is what he has to look out for though Shogun can have a vicious attack from the top.* even though his skillset and the way he used to win alot of fights is limited by the difference in rules between UFC and Pride. Either way I think he is going to have a hard time taking it to the ground if he even tries to.


 
Agreed....:thumbsup:

CC420


----------



## SpoKen

Here's my 2 cents on this (again), Shogun will probably get knocked out. I'm sorry to say it, and hey, he'll do great, but it won't last. He land a few shots, he'll clinch and tie him up, he may even get the thai clinch and land a few knees to the ribs, but it just won't last.

It pains me to say, Shogun will get knocked out. I'm glad I like Machida heh.


----------



## DAMURDOC

I don't see shogun taking down Machida in a million years. This is going to be one sick knock-out by our resident bresijapalian.


----------



## VolcomX311

DAMURDOC said:


> I don't see shogun taking down Machida in a million years. This is going to be one sick knock-out by our resident bresijapalian.


I wouldn't quite say in a million years, personally, but I agree with the general idea.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

It's my opinion that mauricio Shogun is just too slow to compete effectively with the most elusive fighter in mixed martial arts. Shogun is a great fighter, but it's going to take pinpoint accuracy, a great defense to counterstrikes, and overall quickness to defeat machida. Shogun has a lot of talent, but the skill set needed for the victory next month he just doesn't have. Perhaps, if what he says is true, and his knee is completely healed...


----------



## Admz

Without even comparing the skills of Machida and Shogun, I don't believe Shogun has the stamina to hold up with the Dragon. He looked absolutely terrible against Coleman, and he only fought for 1 round with Liddell. How do we know Shogun upped his cardio since then, and if so, by how much?

I believe Machida will just lightly trade strikes for a round or 2 and they will _maybe_ even fight on the ground for a bit, but once Shogun shows even the slightest fatigue Machida will go for the KO.

Lyoto can very easily end it in the first round, but I think he'll be nice to his buddy Shogun. Round 2 Knockout.


----------



## DropKicker

coldcall420 said:


> I think the bold clearly indicates that your assumption is again just that...an assumption....LOL.....U R persistant...
> 
> Your excellent at jumping to conclusions but me saying that potentially Shogun could catch Machida with a looping blow is just that.....Potential...First if he catches Lyoto its much more likely Lyoto would be in guard....not Shogun.
> 
> Regardless, as stated above and bold, there is no real advantage for Shogun in this position as Lyoto is more than adequate to deal with it, the thing that makes me sad.......is peoples inability to believe the ground game is there just cuz they haven't seen it in the UFC...it has been displayed in the past and is certainly fine tunned......
> 
> BTW...Dropkicker I bolded the part of your post I'm referring to....
> 
> Why are you so sure that as long as it goes to the ground Shogun will win???
> 
> Shogun has 1 sub win on his record and 2 losses....
> 
> Lyoto has 2 sub victories with no losses......:confused02:
> 
> TBH, none of that matters because the key word being potentially and I doubt it will happen.....nice reach though:thumbsup:
> 
> CC420
> 
> 
> EDIT: Happy early B-Day Brian Glover.....



Never said I was so sure Shogun would win if they hit the ground. I'm just saying his chances of catching Machida wheter it be a TKO stoppage punch or even a yes, submission would be much better. I'm just simply appluading you for your "potential" thought of your boy "potentially" being in trouble if they hit the ground with Shogun in his guard. LOL It's good to see you're finally seeing the light.  As compared to your posts from the past where you didn't even give Shogun a chance at all on the ground. A bit hypocritical here don't you think?... You also ignored the credits wagering you dared me in the past... I wonder why, could it be you "potentially" losing if Shogun catches Machida in his guard?...Ha!


----------



## VolcomX311

Admz said:


> Lyoto can very easily end it in the first round, but I think he'll be nice to his buddy Shogun. Round 2 Knockout.


Lyoto isn't really known to be a bulldog. He was once MMA's greatest track star and held the fastest Octagon lap time (I believe he has three, first round wins in his MMA career.) 

However, I agree he'll most likely win, but historically, he's just not a first round fighter, even when he's dominant. 

I'll go with your Round 2 Knockout, call, and I may also agree on your speculation that Lyoto may not go for the throat against his friend (in the first round).


----------



## coldcall420

DropKicker said:


> Never said I was so sure Shogun would win if they hit the ground. I'm just saying his chances of catching Machida wheter it be a TKO stoppage punch or even a yes, submission would be much better. *I'm just simply appluading you for your "potential" thought of your boy "potentially" being in trouble if they hit the ground with Shogun in his guard. LOL It's good to see you're finally seeing the light. * As compared to your posts from the past where you *didn't even give Shogun a chance at all on the ground*. A bit hypocritical here don't you think?... *You also ignored the credits wagering you dared me in the past... I wonder why, could it be you "potentially" losing if Shogun catches Machida in his guard?...Ha*!


 
I never said you said he would win if it hits the ground? You see thats the frustrating thing about discussing anything with you, you tell a person what they just wrote, and thank them for agreeing, but they never wrote anything to agree with you.....READ DUDE...

When I originally stated Potentially...I was referring to Shogun landing a wild punch that could put Machida on his back.......NEVER was I saying that if Machida was on his back he would be in trouble....there is no light to see there, I would offer Machida is as good or better on the ground....

Most likely the fight will never hit the ground, but to be clear I dont give Shogun a chance there.....


Credit wagering......Im confused with that one. Are you saying you wanted a side credit bet with me on this fight.......Because that statement def makes me think so.....In that case let me be clear....I will bet you whatever you want as I seem to remember asking you to bet. I'm not sure how many credits you have but I will be sure glad to take everyone in a straight up one on one bet Lyoto or Shogun.....

Just make sure you PM me so I can explain the correct way for you to donate me my credits, Hell we can add a sig bet in there too.....

I would want our sig to say: *"I am an idiot that doesn't quite get a clue when its explained at great length, but Lyoto machida is a god and I should have listened to Coldcall420 from the start!"*

Obviously you can have mine say whatever you want, so since I feel like you wanna call me out....I'll call you out....


Sig bet plus all your credits on Shogun vs. sig bet plus match whatever amount of credits you have on Machida...

Are you going to take the bet?

YES or NO???

1 word answer....

CC420:sarcastic11:

EDIT: you have 10,100k credits, I will* sig bet* you and bet you 15k to your 10100 heads up.....thats a pretty good offer(where are your balls?)


----------



## AceofSpades187

man i cant wait for this even it sucks that its a month away :thumbsdown: . hopefully shogun brings his A game so its a compentive match how ever i see Ryu:wink01: takin this in the third round by K.o. The only reason i say the 3d round is cuz i want there to be 2 rounds of pure war a mma fan can dream right


----------



## DropKicker

CC420,

I already told you in the previous post we're going by by the betting odds. Go back & read! So we'll wait to see what they are. You think I'd be so dumb to bet you according to your say? ha! When in real it's more likely it's going to be a 3 to 1 bet. And ummm easy on the personal insults, just because you're Mod now. I laugh at your authority and answer with this *that you'll read & probably get mad for no reason like you always do*..

As for the Sig for you it will be: *"My nuthuggery obsession with Machida caused me to bow down to Dropkicker, next time I'll just listen to his almighty wisdom cus I'm the true idiot."*

If you say no to this than you have no balls....


----------



## name goes here

I think Thiago does everything Shogun does, but with more patience and less aggression - and he didn't stand a round with Machida.


----------



## coldcall420

DropKicker said:


> CC420,
> 
> I already told you in the previous post we're going by by the betting odds. Go back & read! So we'll wait to see what they are. You think I'd be so dumb to bet you according to your say? ha! When in real it's more likely it's going to be a 3 to 1 bet. And ummm easy on the personal insults, just because you're Mod now. I laugh at your authority and answer with this *that you'll read & probably get mad for no reason like you always do*..
> 
> As for the Sig for you it will be: *"My nuthuggery obsession with Machida caused me to bow down to Dropkicker, next time I'll just listen to his almighty wisdom cus I'm the true idiot."*
> 
> If you say no to this than you have no balls....


LOL...Confdence in the fighter he picks:thumbsup:


----------



## JIBBBY

I honestly don't see many people beating Machida right now in that weight division. I am in awe of Machida every time I see him fight..

Shogun will come out aggressive and swinging for sure.. I just see Machida being very patient and timing his counter punches, eventually connecting to Shoguns jaw and knocking him out..

Machida is on a roll right now..


----------



## Clivey

Rodgerjones said:


> Cant wait to see Ryan Bader fight. Hes one of my fav's to ever come off The show.


werd up Bader kicks ass. I cant wait for this event!!! even the undercard is stacked.


----------



## R.Doria

Cain and Shogun are really similar!
Actually i think Cain looks like Shogun more than Ninja does...


----------



## VolcomX311

I hope Shogun wins, but I just don't see that happening. Maybe Mousasi, assuming he doesn't go HW and assuming he joins the UFC :confused05: Apart from that, I don't see Machida losing the belt anytime soon, but it wouldn't hurt me if I were wrong.


----------



## dafunguru

Don't feel like reading the rest of the 17 pages. Is anyone giving Shogun a chance? I'm not lol


----------



## JIBBBY

dafunguru said:


> Don't feel like reading the rest of the 17 pages. Is anyone giving Shogun a chance? I'm not lol


Naaaaa, it's pretty much all Machida, one or two people on this thread think Shogun will win.


----------



## michelangelo

Just keepin' the seat warm for Jon Bones Jones. Really, Jones vs. Machida is as close as we'll ever get to Machida vs. Anderson.


----------



## KnockedTFO!

michelangelo said:


> Just keepin' the seat warm for Jon Bones Jones. Really, Jones vs. Machida is as close as we'll ever get to Machida vs. Anderson.



pshhh!! I don't think so. Bones is an impressive prospect. But he's light years behind Machida's & Anderson Silva's striking. He'll get knockedtfo! even attempting to stand with them. I'll give him an egde in the wrestling department maybe just because of how he ragdolled Stephan Bonnar around like a lil girl. And Bonnar's no small LHW either. Bone's still a year or two before I can see him in the same picture as Machida & Silva. Though I'll be paying close attention to how Bones progresses especially in the striking department now that he's with the Jackson Camp.


----------



## VolcomX311

KnockedTFO! said:


> Bones progresses especially in the striking department now that he's with the Jackson Camp.


A few more years at the Jackson Camp and we can hope to see Bones performing at THE MET in New York, or whatever performance arts path he ultimately decides on.


----------



## MMA_Mastermind

I have Shogun beating Machida, Shogun has never been knocked out why are people expecting Machida to be the first? Just because he KO'd Rashad, who might as well be a background dancer in a rap video, does not mean he will be able to finish someone of the caliber of Rua.

Read my Blog in my Signature for my full UFC 104 Predictions. 
I am the MMA Mastermind, The know it all of Mixed Martial Arts.

http://themmamastermind.blogspot.com/


----------



## SSD

MMA_Mastermind said:


> I have Shogun beating Machida, Shogun has never been knocked out why are people expecting Machida to be the first? Just because he KO'd Rashad, who might as well be a background dancer in a rap video, does not mean he will be able to finish someone of the caliber of Rua.
> 
> Read my Blog in my Signature for my full UFC 104 Predictions.
> I am the MMA Mastermind, The know it all of Mixed Martial Arts.
> 
> http://themmamastermind.blogspot.com/


I doubt Lyoto can knock Rua out cold. However, I think he can rock him enough to get some TKO victory. I think it'll take some time--even round 4 but one thing for sure is that Rua won't be able to catch Machida standing. Rua has a chance on the ground since Machida hasn't impressed with that aspect but nevertheless I doubt that Rua will be able to take Lyoto down due to Lyoto's Liddell-like TDD.


----------



## michelangelo

For sure. Keep in mind, Bones is only 21 though. He's got A LOT of time to up his game, which is already very impressive. 

His supplex against Bonnar was just stupid. When's the last time you've seen that?!?



KnockedTFO! said:


> pshhh!! I don't think so. Bones is an impressive prospect. But he's light years behind Machida's & Anderson Silva's striking. He'll get knockedtfo! even attempting to stand with them. I'll give him an egde in the wrestling department maybe just because of how he ragdolled Stephan Bonnar around like a lil girl. And Bonnar's no small LHW either. Bone's still a year or two before I can see him in the same picture as Machida & Silva. Though I'll be paying close attention to how Bones progresses especially in the striking department now that he's with the Jackson Camp.


----------



## IndependentMOFO

Like many have stated in this thread, Bones (right now) doesn't stand a change against Machida. I imagine by the time he is 25 he will be "scary good" on the levels of fighters such as Machida, Fedor, and Silva. He knows the holes in his game and he's working with Jackson's to fix them. 

By the time he reaches his prime, he will likely be known for having some of the best takedowns ever seen in MMA.


----------



## coldcall420

MMA_Mastermind said:


> I have Shogun beating Machida, Shogun has never been knocked out why are people expecting Machida to be the first? Just because he KO'd Rashad, who might as well be a background dancer in a rap video, does not mean he will be able to finish someone of the caliber of Rua.
> 
> Read my Blog in my Signature for my full UFC 104 Predictions.
> I am the MMA Mastermind, The know it all of Mixed Martial Arts.
> 
> http://themmamastermind.blogspot.com/


 
Its a legitimate question, but why would Rua be the 1st to K/O Machida or even give him his 1st loss???

The fact IMO is that Shogun leaves way too many holes for Lyoto to easily pick through, and I believe that is why you will see a very patient Rua in this fight...

Patient for what? Well the opportunity to land a shot on Machida right? (assumes yes is answer) So already this is what Lyoto is looking for...he is looking for Rua to think he has that opening, after all Mauricio is going to be looking for it right?

Thats where the counter comes in.....Basically I am trying to say eventually Rua will be the first one to offer an opening and it will be exploited by Machida....why? Again because we, me you, everyone and Lyoto know this is Rua's thinking.....

It's what Rashad thought he would do....and to his credit he did until he got frustrated and took the shot he was looking for......all that did was lead to the dismantleing...

Other than the fact that this has been a long time coming...I see Lyoto easily handling Mauricio....

Just my thoughts....:thumbsup:

CC420


----------



## VolcomX311

reedk said:


> Machida will dominate again as usual. He should dominate for at least another year before really being challenged since his style is very unorthodox to most fighters.
> 
> mma fanatic


All I have to say about your link is:






Though I'm a bit perplexed at why you're linking such an old article, talking about the upcoming fight with BJ and Florian.


----------



## VolcomX311

reedk said:


> okay mr flywieght. ill make sure to update my link to more current fights like penn and sanchez. thanks for the tip. You can look at the articles and news tabs for updated info. Those update automatically
> 
> 
> http://www.hawaiiufc.com


No need to get your panties in a bunch with the flyweight comment, I wasn't disrespecting you, I thought the Hawaii '78 was respect enough and I was expressing a genuine inquisition, not putting you on blast.


----------



## THE-PUNISHER

just coz machidas undefeated dnt mean you have to go for himm... shogun for me ... its time machida shows what its like to get pumped...


----------



## xeberus

Middleweight bout: Yushin Okami vs. Chael Sonnen
Heavyweight bout: Antoni Hardonk vs. Patrick Barry

i want to see these fights, hope they get shown.


----------



## A Random Person

I am calling it right now, velesquez/rothwell MOTN


----------



## WhatsLeft

TheChannel121 said:


> For great predictions and for UFC news go to


Thanks ..I enjoy hearing/watching peoples predictions but you lost all credibility when you said Shogun and Rashad are the same stylistically. And cain would beat rothwell because he wont have the heart hispanics do in the fight.:confused02:


----------



## MMAALLDAY

I been reading through everyones comments regarding Machida vs Shogun and I had to have my say!What we have here is a new style that once again is taking everybody by suprise. The art of suprise is the key and as more and more karate guys flock to the octogon in an attempt to follow in Machida's footsteps, fighters training and understanding of this style will allow them to find some kind of weekness. In my view no one is going to dethrone Machida for some time. Not until fighters evolve to deal with him. What it will take is a fighter with a new technique,something original, and not someone the likes of Shogun. John Jones with another few fights under his belt may be the only short term threat unless a fight with Anderson is on the cards. That guy could no doubt find a ***** in Machida's armour.

Between the awesome skills of Anderson and the shear brutishness of Brock, 205 is becoming the dumping ground for has-beens that are desperatley trying to put together some sort of career. Wrong move guys....Machida will spoil those plans.


----------



## MMACrackHead

I agree the DRAGON will destroy the Shogun!


----------



## flourhead

i want shogun to win this fight so rampage will come back and get his revenge


----------



## coldcall420

flourhead said:


> i want shogun to win this fight so rampage will come back and get his revenge


 
Rampage will be back regardless...he isnt an actor, he may be suited well for this role but Hollywood will boot him so fast, he'll be right back under Dana's power...


----------



## VolcomX311

Rampage should star in a new Sanford & Son series. He already looks kind of like grandpa Sanford.


----------



## coldcall420

VolcomX311 said:


> Rampage should star in a new Sanford & Son series. He already looks kind of like grandpa Sanford.


 
He reminds me of Red Fox.....:dunno:


----------



## AceofSpades187

Closer this fight gets the more excited im geting WAR MACHIDA!!!


----------



## BrutalKO

*...Go Karate Kid!*

...Lyoto's game is so complete. I can't see anybody beating him now. His game has evolved quickly while he remained undefeated this whole time. Lyoto has no holes in his game. His stats are setting UFC records. Whatever Shogun has to offer will not be enough...by a long shot. Rashad Evans is more athletic & faster than Shogun and he only landed 5 strikes on Machida when they fought. I think Lyoto will get another TKO or KO win. 
Machida's odd timing and his amazing elusiveness will cause Shogun to miss a lot of his strikes. Shogun might get too aggressive and make a mistake. Lyoto would go in for the kill. Shogun will be finished by Round 3...


----------



## Spidaman

I think Lyoto has his one in the bag. He has fought fighters that all have similar qualities to shogun. He needs to be tested by a unique fighter as himself.


----------



## No_Mercy

Lyoto appears quite focused and ready to make another statement. Really want to see this go at least three rounds though. Don't mind seeing a chess match the first round, then see Shogun flying around the 2nd and third. At least we know Shogun has a strong chin. I just don't want to see a crazy 1st round KO especially cuz I respect both fighters and want to see a good war! The rest of the card seems average at best. Would have figured they'd stack it a bit more.


----------



## coldcall420

I think Lyoto's 1st title defense will be his toughest for a while...:confused05:


----------



## Smiley Face

Machida FTW!!!


----------



## N1™

coldcall420 said:


> I think Lyoto's 1st title defense will be his toughest for a while...:confused05:


i have a bad feeling 2. Im not as nervous as i was on the rashad fight tho


----------



## coldcall420

N1™ said:


> i have a bad feeling 2. Im not as nervous as i was on the rashad fight tho


 
Norway if your not as nervous right now as you were when he fought Rashad your good dude....Im nervous as hell right now and it isnt gonna go away until DING!!!

I think we will be alright, someone earlier posted and I thought it was good, they said they see the 1st as a chess round the 2nd as Shogun tryin to throw he looping punches and the 3rd being the TKO.....:confused02: Not sure bout that, but I really dont see it going 5 and barring a disaster I see Machida as being more focused...

*Machida on his fight with Rashad:*
"My concentration was so deep that every minor mistake Rashad made looked like a major error on his part"

Thats like matrix stuff right there....were good dude!!!:thumbsup:


----------



## neoseeker

The Machida fans are out big time today. I'm staying with my pick, Shogun. And if Shogun wins, please don't call it an upset.


----------



## SSD

The thing that scares me is the Shogun is by far the best opponent that Machida has ever faced. Just look at it: he's definitely better than Evans (better striking), T-Silva (better at most aspects), Ortiz (faster and better BJJ), Sokodjou (obviously), BJ Penn (heavier and stronger), and Franklin (better overall skills).

Even with that said, I think Machida is going to surprise everyone and pull some new tricks out of his hat for a convincing victory in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. I don't know if Machida can submit Shogun but he can definitely hurt him enough to get a TKO or maybe even a KO victory.


----------



## coldcall420

neoseeker said:


> The Machida fans are out big time today. I'm staying with my pick, Shogun. And if Shogun wins, please don't call it an upset.


 
I def wouldnt call it an upset and I would go on to say he probably(Shogun) would hold the belt from this night forward for quite some time....I really think these are the best 2.....205er's in the UFC....:thumbsup:


EDIT: FTR..Lyoto 2nd RD TKO


----------



## Devil_Bingo

I really WANT Shogun to win this fight. I just don't think he can at all. I can still hope though.


----------



## SSD

coldcall420 said:


> I def wouldnt call it an upset and I would go on to say he probably(Shogun) would hold the belt from this night forward for quite some time....I really think these are the best 2.....205er's in the UFC....:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> EDIT: FTR..Lyoto 2nd RD TKO


I agree and disagree. Its true that Machida and Shogun are great but don't forget about Anderson Silva. To tell the truth, I wouldn't be utterly disappointed if Shogun won because Anderson Silva could finally get his shot. Right now, I'd rank Silva, Machida, and Shogun the top three in no order.


----------



## Freiermuth

SSD said:


> I agree and disagree. Its true that Machida and Shogun are great but don't forget about Anderson Silva. To tell the truth, I wouldn't be utterly disappointed if Shogun won because Anderson Silva could finally get his shot. Right now, I'd rank Silva, Machida, and Shogun the top three in no order.


Yeah, AS vs Shogun would be cool....especially to see if one of them would try to clinch since they are both awesome at it.


----------



## halfoiked

i think the first round is going to go to lyoto then shogun is gonna knock him out in the 2nd,anyone know where to watch it online? if not im hittin up the bar and catchin this for sure


----------



## R.Doria

Shogun all the way!!
Rua gonna take machida down and G&P hin until the refree stops!!
Shogun by TKO!!


----------



## higanti

there is a live stream here http://online-watch-live-streaming.blogspot.com/2009/10/ufc-104-live-online-streaming.html


----------



## _RIVAL_

Mucha guerra de Machida!!!! Ole!!!


----------



## No_Mercy

Here we go...


----------



## coldcall420

I feel more confident now than ever....Machida via TKO in the 2nd....:thumbsup:


----------



## GodlyMoose

Man Hardonk has some shitty stand up defense. Flat footed as hell, no head movement to speak of, and leaves a ton of openings up.


----------



## Jesy Blue

okay, this is my actual first time watching Okami after people on here continualy raved about him... and obviously not impressed.


----------



## swpthleg

Definitely Machida by TKO. Not going to say what round I think though. I want to be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Dylanfsd

Anyone whos interested

http://www.muftmaza.info/1.html

Im watching it here


----------



## swpthleg

love how he handed his belt to one of his minders. They will treat it with the respect it deserves.


----------



## The Dark Knight

So Machida is really human.


----------



## imrik32

Shogun got ******* robbed. That's horse shit.


----------



## slowreaction

******* horse shit!! Shogun was robbed.


----------



## taz1458

When will the scoring crap be changed...How many fights do we see the judges f**k someone over...Gets very very old after a while and gets you starting to think if its who the judges like...


----------



## DJ Syko

That is the worse decision ever, Shogun got got robbed for everything he owns there. You cant say the bisping/hamill fight was a worse call than this, absloute BS. I think Machida my of nicked a round at best.


----------



## thedogdanny

The only thing shogun had was f*cking leg kicks. Machida had everything else!


----------



## DanTheJu

My honest opinion…. And I know its not going to be popular… But here it is anyway!

Round 1: To close to call (judges normaly give the champ a round like that)
Round 2: A CLEAR round for Rua
Round 3: Close round, but Machida pulled it out
Round 4: A clear round for Rua
Round 5: Close round again, but Machida pulled this one as well

This is a CLEAR example of why the 10 point must system does not work. Under a system that scores actual strikes and strike effectiveness Rua would have had a CLEAR win. But with the 10 point must, it was a loss.


----------



## thedogdanny

And what happened before the fight? Machida looked troubled... You know when both machida and shogun was in the octagon


----------



## Quatreux

*Machida vs Shogun*

i just finished watching the fight on pay per view... and what a disgrace from the judges... do kicks, elbows, hooks and octogon control not deserve points??

i honestly thought before the fight started that Machida was gonna have an easy victory... but this match just seemed rigged.. Shogun slaughtered Machida.. the only round that Machida came even close to winning was the third round... i guess if your the champ and dont get knocked out then you deserve to win... it doesnt matter if your face is all cut and bruised.. and welts all over your ribs and legs and if u land about 1 scrappy punch to every 4-5 kicks of the challenger... in the judges eyes you have to knock someone out to get the belt because giving the champ the beat down of his life just isnt enough..

what a joke of a decision!!


----------



## K R Y

thedogdanny said:


> And what happened before the fight? Machida looked troubled... You know when both machida and shogun was in the octagon


I saw this also. He came in so calm and collected. Entered, then started looking anxious and worried and trying to talk to the ref.


----------



## blang

*to be the champ you have to beat the champ*

it was a close fight. i think it could have went either way. but to be the champ you have to beat the champ and that didn't happen. shogun had every opportunity to close the deal in the fifth round but he didn't. he didn't want the title. not to say machita closed the deal but he was the champ


----------



## Quatreux

DanTheJu said:


> My honest opinion…. And I know its not going to be popular… But here it is anyway!
> 
> Round 1: To close to call (judges normaly give the champ a round like that)
> Round 2: A CLEAR round for Rua
> Round 3: Close round, but Machida pulled it out
> Round 4: A clear round for Rua
> Round 5: Close round again, but Machida pulled this one as well
> 
> This is a CLEAR example of why the 10 point must system does not work. Under a system that scores actual strikes and strike effectiveness Rua would have had a CLEAR win. But with the 10 point must, it was a loss.


sorry bud but machida didnt even land anything in the first round.. but he took a good knee to the ribs followed by some vicious mid and leg kicks.. i dont see how thats too close to call... and the fith round was a bit of the same as the first... the 3rd round i thought machida pulled it out with that flurry but when watching that flurry in slow motion... Machida landed 2 ok punches and missed everything else and Shogun landed a huge right hook and a big knee to the mid section.. and that was clearly the best round Machida had... ...

Shogun was robbed like a money bag in the middle of the street


----------



## No_Mercy

I also thought Shogun edged out the win by split decision and I had money on Lyoto. In retrospect Shogun only landed leg kicks. Lyoto landed everything and rocked Shogun several times. Defended all of his take down effects and gave em several knees for his efforts. It looked like Shogun was controlling the fight and received less damage, but in reality point wise/hits Lyoto did in fact land much more.


----------



## IIGQ4U

No_Mercy said:


> I also thought Shogun edged out the win by split decision and I had money on Lyoto. In retrospect Shogun only landed leg kicks. Lyoto landed everything and rocked Shogun several times. Defended all of his take down effects and gave em several knees for his efforts. It looked like Shogun was controlling the fight and received less damage, but in reality point wise/hits Lyoto did in fact land much more.


If Shogun only landed leg kicks, why was Lyoto's face cut? Shogun landed a couple of elbows on Machida. 
Shogun was the clear aggressor , he landed more shots, took less damage and was the clear winner of this fight. 
I could have seen the fight scored 3 rounds to 2 for Shogun. I personally scored 4 rounds to 1 for Shogun. How the judges scored the fight 3 rounds to 2 for Machida is beyond my scope of comprehension.


----------



## No_Mercy

IIGQ4U said:


> If Shogun only landed leg kicks, why was Lyoto's face cut? Shogun landed a couple of elbows on Machida.
> Shogun was the clear aggressor , he landed more shots, took less damage and was the clear winner of this fight.
> I could have seen the fight scored 3 rounds to 2 for Shogun. I personally scored 4 rounds to 1 for Shogun. How the judges scored the fight 3 rounds to 2 for Machida is beyond my scope of comprehension.


Reality is it's based on a point system. 

Scores were 48-47 across the board for Machida. www.UFC.com


----------



## IIGQ4U

I am aware of that, however, the reality is that most of the people who watched this fight believe that Machida lost!


----------



## alizio

the reality is, save all but one time, machida backpeddled out and remained "elusive" on every serious exchange, he wanted no part of any real exchange and thats why shogun was forced to pick him apart with leg kicks, counter leg and body kicks. I dont know how you can look really impressive against a guy that back peddles out of almost every exchange he doesnt have a signifigant edge in. Credit to Machida for good TDD, but that doesnt score you points when you arent controlling to pace or octogan outside of backpeddling.


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU

coldcall420 said:


> I feel more confident now than ever....Machida via TKO in the 2nd....:thumbsup:


Sorry, but...LOL


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy

Clearly Shogun outstruck him... so where was this bad decision based on?

http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html


----------



## BrutalKO

*...Shogun got robbed...*

...I thought Lyoto would walk through Shogun. Not the case AT ALL! Shogun should have won that fight, at least by split decision. Rua imposed his will on Machida and nobody has yet to do that. Nobody has ever landed that many strikes against Machida in fight. Shogun's kicks were devastating. Not to take anything away from Shogun but Lyoto seemed to be on Mars or something. Whatever the reason, Shogun has cracked the nut that nobody has yet to do. There has to be a rematch. Man does this stir up the 205 pot...:thumbsup:


----------



## morninglightmt

I think Machida needs to go back to the drawing board because he got tooled in this fight.


----------



## Sphoeninx

By counts of aggressiveness alone, of who does create the moments of action, who makes the effort to rumble.. shogun also won in that category.. i wonder what kind of impression did Machida had on the judges to be given the victory.... hmmmmmm
get to see the match in the replay and you'll see the same thing over and over again.. Shogun getting a clear win against Machida..


----------



## gusto

Sphoeninx said:


> By counts of aggressiveness alone, of who does create the moments of action, who makes the effort to rumble.. shogun also won in that category.. i wonder what kind of impression did Machida had on the judges to be given the victory.... hmmmmmm
> get to see the match in the replay and you'll see the same thing over and over again.. Shogun getting a clear win against Machida..


well put man. Worst ufc decision since Bisbing Hamil


----------



## MMAAddiction

Shogun was Robbed!


----------



## Quatreux

i was surprised when they said the scores first.. 48 - 47.. i was like.. no way Lyoto won 2 rounds... then the real bomb hit.. kinda just makes u sick to see such a one sided fight go the to guy who got beat up.. it was just like the japanese K1 judges.. only way to beat a japanese fighter is to knock him out in K1.. cos the japanese dont even need to throw a punch to win a decision in K1.. seen it happen more often than not.. i feel like i wasted my money on the pay per view event


----------



## MMAAddiction

Why doesn't Machida be a man and give the title to Shogun and declare him the winner, and say he lost, which he did. What were the judges staring at? It must of not been this fight, oh that's right it was the Griffin vs Rampage fight where they thought Machida was Forrest and Rampage was Rua, what an out cry of corruption in the UFC Organization. I saw this more than once in the UFC and it's starting to concern me a lot, I don't know about you people, but this is just wrong to give someone something they didn't earn let alone let them retain the title that they never did defend enough to keep it.


----------



## Nomale

Bullshit!!!

Shogun did beat the champion decisively, even if by decision! It wasn't close! 

**** you judges, Shogun won!


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

I was disappointed in Machida. Rua took this fight to him and deserved the nod.


----------



## phizeke

Rematch Please!


----------



## Hewhoismitch

*Joe Rogan loves Rua*

http://theathleticnerd.blogspot.com/2009/10/i-know-who-joe-rogan-has-crush-on.html


----------



## bmo37

Shogun was robbed, he was the agressor all 5 rounds, also looked like his hit ratio was about 3/1 versus machida. It honestly looked like machida was just trying to keep from getting hurt the entire fight, I know he's an elusive fighter but he didn't deserve to retain that belt. No idea what match the judges were watching.


----------



## coldcall420

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> Sorry, but...LOL


Its okay dude remember I picked Machida...
Yeah go around and quote everyone who ever predicted a fight wrong...LOL....whats really LOL is you picked Shogun....now thats funny right now!!!:thumbsup:

Machida by hard earned decison based of his counterstrikes that Judges saw, but biased Joe and Goldie didnt, in the process of cheering like girls for Shogun, only for Lyoto to start to bring the pace and bam they jump on Lyoto's nutts until Shogun does somthing and they jump back on his nutts....

I will be breaking the fight down over the next couple of days...

The reality is the leg kicks did huge damage, but arent enough to win a fight...what was not discussed(Lyoto nutt hugger or not) was any of the countering Lyoto was doing while he was eating the leg kicks.....

It was not a good strategy to take the leg kicks and clearly that will need to be dealt with. I though Lyoto would do that to Shogun..

Overall Lyoto didnt seem focused to me at all....intresting to her what he says....


Im not gonna break the action down on this thread I intend to post a thread with my thoughts and if anyone wants to add to that they certainly can......

I would be pissed if i were a Shogun fan, he def could have earned the decision, he didnt in the Judges eyes, lets remember they are sitting cage side and NOT listening to Goldie or Rogan....


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

coldcall420 said:


> Its okay dude remember I picked Machida...
> Yeah go around and quote everyone who ever predicted a fight wrong...LOL....whats really LOL is you picked Shogun....now thats funny right now!!!:thumbsup:
> 
> Machida by hard earned decison based of his counterstrikes that Judges saw, but biased Joe and Goldie didnt, in the process of cheering like girls for Shogun, only for Lyoto to start to bring the pace and bam they jump on Lyoto's nutts until Shogun does somthing and they jump back on his nutts....
> 
> I will be breaking the fight down over the next couple of days...
> 
> The reality is the leg kicks did huge damage, but arent enough to win a fight...what was not discussed(Lyoto nutt hugger or not) was any of the countering Lyoto was doing while he was eating the leg kicks.....
> 
> It was not a good strategy to take the leg kicks and clearly that will need to be dealt with. I though Lyoto would do that to Shogun..
> 
> Overall Lyoto didnt seem focused to me at all....intresting to her what he says....
> 
> 
> Im not gonna break the action down on this thread I intend to post a thread with my thoughts and if anyone wants to add to that they certainly can......
> 
> I would be pissed if i were a Shogun fan, he def could have earned the decision, he didnt in the Judges eyes, lets remember they are sitting cage side and NOT listening to Goldie or Rogan....


Sorry mang... I was at the bar and couldn't hear much of goldie and rogan... and you know I'm a Machida nuthugger as well... but Rua took that fight. 

I agree with you 1000% though... Lyoto looked distracted and tired. I really want to hear from him. 

As for the "Machida will NEVER beat Rua" people, come on. Rua beat him, but not soundly. It wasn't like this was a totally lopsided fight where Lyoto didn't do any damage... He gave Rua a sunburn in the chest cavity from his knees.


----------



## coldcall420

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Sorry mang... I was at the bar and couldn't hear much of goldie and rogan... and you know I'm a Machida nuthugger as well... but Rua took that fight.
> 
> I agree with you 1000% though... Lyoto looked distracted and tired. I really want to hear from him.
> 
> As for the "Machida will NEVER beat Rua" people, come on. Rua beat him, but not soundly. It wasn't like this was a totally lopsided fight where Lyoto didn't do any damage... He gave Rua a sunburn in the chest cavity from his knees.


 

I address the sound fro Goldie and Rogan in here.....it may be slightly clear what I mean......Im not saying people hear Rogan and Goldie so based off that they were helped to make up thier minds.....Im saying the Shogun fans(not all of them) did the same thing Rogan and Goldie did....basically only pay attention to Shogun, because he was bringing the fight and not as focused on the 3-4 counters that Lyoto was landing evertime Rua came in aggressive with the leg kicks......

Lyoto did lot more Damage to Shogun than you think....


http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/64476-dana-white-says-will-great-rematch-26.html#post1026890


Check it out....:thumbsup:


----------



## Londrovic

I watched this fight objectively with no bias to any of the fighters and i never really give Rogan or Goldy my attention in any fight and yet i see Shogun wining this and looking at how 99% of the world see it the same way including Silva and Machidas father and Machida himself and eaven the stats say Shogun won it leads me to believe you CC are biased yourself because you are kind of ignoring Shoguns counters and the facts from the stats of the fight.I really can't see whats your argument that Machida won other then Rogan and Goldy influencing everyone, I mean lets say we ignored all of Machidas counters and we look at the stats now and we will see that Shogun in fact landed more strikes so i don't see how Machida won this and I wish he would say that too because it was clear he himself felt that way.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

coldcall420 said:


> I address the sound fro Goldie and Rogan in here.....it may be slightly clear what I mean......Im not saying people hear Rogan and Goldie so based off that they were helped to make up thier minds.....Im saying the Shogun fans(not all of them) did the same thing Rogan and Goldie did....basically only pay attention to Shogun, because he was bringing the fight and not as focused on the 3-4 counters that Lyoto was landing evertime Rua came in aggressive with the leg kicks......
> 
> Lyoto did lot more Damage to Shogun than you think....
> 
> 
> http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/64476-dana-white-says-will-great-rematch-26.html#post1026890
> 
> 
> Check it out....:thumbsup:


Lyoto got his lumps in, for sure. Rua had a sunburn in his midsection. And I see where you're coming from on a "points" basis, but even there, Rua was more the aggressor, he tagged / tied up Machida, and he landed more shits that were cleaner. 

Was Machida "exposed?" No. Did Lyoto fight like sh*t? Yes. 

BTW, lol @ the "boyfriend" comment in your other post. :thumb02:

BTW x2: Goldie is an idiot. I wish I could remember the Goldie-isms I was able to hear, but man, is his intelligence lacking.


----------



## Nomale

Machida looked distracted and tired because he was in pain. He couldn't move properly. He has never got this amount of beating. And additionally not finding a way to pick his opponent apart. He looked increasingly frustrated and mentally beaten.

Edit: And please lay off the Rogan/Goldman stuff. It has nothing to do with most peoples judgement.


----------



## Devil_Bingo

coldcall420 said:


> Its okay dude remember I picked Machida...
> Yeah go around and quote everyone who ever predicted a fight wrong...LOL....whats really LOL is you picked Shogun....now thats funny right now!!!:thumbsup:
> 
> Machida by hard earned decison based of his counterstrikes that Judges saw, but biased Joe and Goldie didnt, in the process of cheering like girls for Shogun, only for Lyoto to start to bring the pace and bam they jump on Lyoto's nutts until Shogun does somthing and they jump back on his nutts....
> 
> I will be breaking the fight down over the next couple of days...
> 
> *The reality is the leg kicks did huge damage, but arent enough to win a fight...*what was not discussed(Lyoto nutt hugger or not) was any of the countering Lyoto was doing while he was eating the leg kicks.....
> 
> It was not a good strategy to take the leg kicks and clearly that will need to be dealt with. I though Lyoto would do that to Shogun..
> 
> Overall Lyoto didnt seem focused to me at all....intresting to her what he says....
> 
> 
> Im not gonna break the action down on this thread I intend to post a thread with my thoughts and if anyone wants to add to that they certainly can......
> 
> I would be pissed if i were a Shogun fan, he def could have earned the decision, he didnt in the Judges eyes, lets remember they are sitting cage side and NOT listening to Goldie or Rogan....


No they do damage instead which gains them points. They can win fights aswell because of gaining points of them I.E Griffin vs. Rampage.


----------



## thedogdanny

To all of you shogun nuthuggers who think Shogun is better than Machida just because he used his leg kicks during the fight, do you think Forrest Griffin is better than Rampage? Shogun nuthuggers are delusinal(And loudest)


----------



## coldcall420

Devil_Bingo said:


> No they do damage instead which gains them points. They can win fights aswell because of gaining points of them I.E Griffin vs. Rampage.


 
What is the point of your post? I am saying they score points,(damage is points) they did not win him the fight....or am I wrong and Shogun did win?? Clearly he didnt score enough points off of them....to win the fight and it wasnt like Rampage vs. Forrest cuz Forrest screwed Page's knee up and he couldnt plant his foot to strike leaving him vulnerable, Lyoto ate the kicks the whole fight.....:thumbsup:

The only thing about rampage Forrest that is like this fight is Shogun fans feel the same way Rampage fans felt that night.....


----------



## swpthleg

coldcall420 said:


> What is the point of your post? I am saying they score points,(damage is points) they did not win him the fight....or am I wrong and Shogun did win?? Clearly he didnt score enough points off of them....to win the fight and it wasnt like Rampage vs. Forrest cuz Forrest screwed Page's knee up and he couldnt plant his foot to strike leaving him vulnerable, Lyoto ate the kicks the whole fight.....:thumbsup:
> 
> The only thing about rampage Forrest that is like this fight is Shogun fans feel the same way Rampage fans felt that night.....


Quoted for truth.


----------



## N1™

coldcall420 said:


> based of his counterstrikes that Judges saw, but biased Joe and Goldie didnt, in the process of cheering like girls for Shogun,


OMG i just wrote THE EXACT same thing in a thread i made LOL GO COLDCALL !!


----------



## coldcall420

Londrovic said:


> I watched this fight objectively with no bias to any of the fighters and i never really give Rogan or Goldy my attention in any fight and yet i see Shogun wining this and looking at how 99% of the world see it the same way including Silva and Machidas father and Machida himself and eaven the stats say Shogun won it leads me to believe you CC are biased yourself because you are kind of ignoring Shoguns counters and the facts from the stats of the fight.I really can't see whats your argument that Machida won other then Rogan and Goldy influencing everyone, I mean lets say we ignored all of Machidas counters and we look at the stats now and we will see that Shogun in fact landed more strikes so i don't see how Machida won this and I wish he would say that too because it was clear he himself felt that way.


 
This is the problem with people who only see what they want, when you read you only read what you want. I am not implying that goldie and Rogan could convince you that Shogun won the fight. I am saying all they did was talk about and notice Shoguns accomplishments, even when Lyoto was countering Shogun and getting the better all Rogan did was keep talking about the leg kicks......My point is they were amazing and captivating and any Shogun fan is gonna focus in and say those are killing Lyoto and winning him the fight....

Except in the midst of doing that they are not watching what the judges were watching...which was the countering Lyoto was doing.....

Your T.V could be on mute and if you were seeing the same leg strikes and being like wow I cant believe the way he is landig them, you might not ave noticed all the counters....like Rogan and Goldie werent.....


*EDIT:* Machida, His father, nor Anderson said he lost the fight......they did however immediately tell him of his errors in the dressing room after the fight.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

thedogdanny said:


> To all of you shogun nuthuggers who think Shogun is better than Machida just because he used his leg kicks during the fight, do you think Forrest Griffin is better than Rampage? Shogun nuthuggers are delusinal(And loudest)


Forrest was better than Rampage on that night. Rua was better than Machida last night. 

It happens.


----------



## Devil_Bingo

coldcall420 said:


> *What is the point of your post?* I am saying they score points,(damage is points) they did not win him the fight....or am I wrong and Shogun did win?? Clearly he didnt score enough points off of them....to win the fight and it wasnt like Rampage vs. Forrest cuz Forrest screwed Page's knee up and he couldnt plant his foot to strike leaving him vulnerable, Lyoto ate the kicks the whole fight.....:thumbsup:
> 
> The only thing about rampage Forrest that is like this fight is Shogun fans feel the same way Rampage fans felt that night.....


The Point of my post was saying Why Shogun Should've won the fight. The leg kicks were why everyone thinks he won the fight. I was simply pointing that out.

EDIT: In their Rematch Machida would win. Thought i'd add that.


----------



## BHShaman

No one should WIN by counter-striking until they can demonstrate OBVIOUS superiority. That was not the case in this fight.

Just looking at their faces at the end of the fight, Machida was all cut up. So, not only did he eat leg kicks all night long he was the worse for wear all around.

Decision sucked. One should not be able to play "Prevent Defense" (NFL) in MMA and earn a victory.


----------



## Devil_Bingo

Counter Striking actually does Alot. Ask Chuck Liddell he did it all through his MMA Career.


----------



## IIGQ4U

Chuck Liddell was also knocking people out.


----------



## Londrovic

coldcall420 said:


> This is the problem with people who only see what they want, when you read you only read what you want. I am not implying that goldie and Rogan could convince you that Shogun won the fight. I am saying all they did was talk about and notice Shoguns accomplishments, even when Lyoto was countering Shogun and getting the better all Rogan did was keep talking about the leg kicks......My point is they were amazing and captivating and any Shogun fan is gonna focus in and say those are killing Lyoto and winning him the fight....
> 
> Except in the midst of doing that they are not watching what the judges were watching...which was the countering Lyoto was doing.....
> 
> Your T.V could be on mute and if you were seeing the same leg strikes and being like wow I cant believe the way he is landig them, you might not ave noticed all the counters....like Rogan and Goldie werent.....
> 
> 
> *EDIT:* Machida, His father, nor Anderson said he lost the fight......they did however immediately tell him of his errors in the dressing room after the fight.


The edit you made is the only thing I am trying to point out.If he lost the decision too they would have done the same thing point out his errors so they are indeed taking this as a loss.The fact is Shogun was better then Machida in this fight but Machida won and that's all I see no need for further discussion because it won't really change anything I was just hoping you would see that Machida was indeed outperformed no matter the decision but we will have to agree to disagree.


----------



## Nomale

Please explain these things for me Coldcall:

You say that the judges are in a position to see stuff we in front of a screen don't. Do you really think it is that different? The production these days are good and the cameras are right where the action is. Yes, things like atmosphere are lost but to actually be able to see strikes is not.

You claim that Machida's countering is overlooked and that he won by more scored strikes. Why doesn't that show on the stats like this? http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html (Assuming those are approximately correct it isn't even very close.) 

(Then we also have the matter of aggression and octagon control which went to Shogun.)


----------



## coldcall420

Londrovic said:


> The edit you made is the only thing I am trying to point out.If he lost the decision too they would have done the same thing point out his errors so they are indeed taking this as a loss.The fact is Shogun was better then Machida in this fight but Machida won and that's all I see no need for further discussion because it won't really change anything I was just hoping you would see that Machida was indeed outperformed no matter the decision but we will have to agree to disagree.


Your assumng by pointing out errors they said he lost, they didnt. Im sure there are a couple errors that were pointed out by Shoguns camp to him....I agree with you that Shogun had a better gmeplan, thast part of what caught Joe and Goldie and all Shogun fans eye...



Nomale said:


> Please explain these things for me Coldcall:
> 
> You say that the judges are in a position to see stuff we in front of a screen don't. Do you really think it is that different? The production these days are good and the cameras are right where the action is. Yes, things like atmosphere are lost but to actually be able to see strikes is not.
> 
> You claim that Machida's countering is overlooked and that he won by more scored strikes. Why doesn't that show on the stats like this? http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html (Assuming those are approximately correct it isn't even very close.)
> 
> (Then we also have the matter of aggression and octagon control which went to Shogun.)


Simply they nay see the power behind certain strikes and view them as more effective or having more of an impact, I am not saying that we, and I mean me too, the viewing audience is dumb and dont know what were looking at, just that its not like we have a seat at the side of the cage....one of the best seats for that matter....:thumbsup:


----------



## wakeboy

coldcall... what about the few times lyoto attacked and shogun countered... a few times i remember lyoto kicking the mid section and shogun countered by a low kick and lyoto kept stumbling away. I personal believe that shogun blocked most of lyotos ineffective counters


----------



## Londrovic

Dude I'm not assuming they said he lost you and i both wrote that they infact did say and think he lost, no need to assume anything there.

Machida himself not believing he he won is all i needed to see because he will never feel that he kept the belt justly and that's why he agreed to the rematch not to settle it with Shogun but to settle it with himself.


----------



## Iuanes

Shogun caused more attritional damage and threw with more power, he was also the fresher fighter by the end of the fight. You could argue that he initiated the exhanges as well, though I don't know how much this matters. In a practical sense Rua won the fight.

Machida had more attacks to the head, and was closer to finishing than either fighter(though not really that close). He countered Shoguns body and leg kicks most of the time with apparently weaker strikes, though in more critical areas, sometimes with 2 strikes. I suppose the judges see shots at the head as more important, regardless of power, and weigh unanswered combinations more heavily. Machida wins on points.

I can understand people disagreeing with the decision, but I think the intensity of uproar is unwarranted. There were so many close rounds, and the judging system itself so poorly understood, that for me, calling any of these rounds conclusively from the perspective of the judge is impossible.

Thankfully, Shogun will get a much deserved rematch at the belt, arguably his own belt, too see if he is the true champion, while Machida will get an oppurtunity to justify this decision and his claims to the title.


----------



## coldcall420

wakeboy said:


> coldcall... what about the few times lyoto attacked and shogun countered... a few times i remember lyoto kicking the mid section and shogun countered by a low kick and lyoto kept stumbling away. I personal believe that shogun blocked most of lyotos ineffective counters


 
Shogun did it all man, I agree with you he was countering. the counters that I saw werehard hitting from machida and forced Shogun backwards, i believe those heavily weighed to the judges and Dana and both fighters in the post fight conference agreed they didnt finsh the fight the way they should have, or finish the rounds...


----------



## VolcomX311

Lyoto getting the nod was total and utter bullshit. They both fought well, but come on. I'm not even particularly a Shogun fan, but it should rub anybody the wrong way when an injustice that blatant was on display by the judges.



coldcall420 said:


> This is the problem with people who only see what they want, when you read you only read what you want. I am not implying that goldie and Rogan could convince you that Shogun won the fight. I am saying all they did was talk about and notice Shoguns accomplishments, even when Lyoto was countering Shogun and getting the better all Rogan did was keep talking about the leg kicks......My point is they were amazing and captivating and any Shogun fan is gonna focus in and say those are killing Lyoto and winning him the fight....
> 
> Except in the midst of doing that they are not watching what the judges were watching...which was the countering Lyoto was doing.....
> 
> Your T.V could be on mute and if you were seeing the same leg strikes and being like wow I cant believe the way he is landig them, you might not ave noticed all the counters....like Rogan and Goldie werent.....
> 
> 
> *EDIT:* Machida, His father, nor Anderson said he lost the fight......they did however immediately tell him of his errors in the dressing room after the fight.


I watched the fight without audio the first time through because I had to, the first two rounds "looked" like it could be debatable, but the following three were "looking" more and more in Shogun's favor with each passing round and deflating leg kick. 

Lyoto wins if you judge evasiveness and defensive postures, but as far as pressing the fight and actual damage, please.

P.S. I'm not targeting your posts intentionally, I just watched it so I'm still venting and you've got the most eye catching Lyoto display, so I can't help but give your posts my attention.


----------



## wakeboy

coldcall420 said:


> Shogun did it all man, I agree with you he was countering. the counters that I saw werehard hitting from machida and forced Shogun backwards, i believe those heavily weighed to the judges and Dana and both fighters in the post fight conference agreed they didnt finsh the fight the way they should have, or finish the rounds...


yup i agree, i need to stop arguing and just be thankful for the great fight we just watched even though i don't agree with the outcome


----------



## rslogix5

*Shogun will be the new champion*

I just want to say about the fight between Machida vs. Rua. 
I think Shogun should stay with the UFC lightheavyweight title because he was in contention better than Machida in every way. Especially when he attacked the champion's legs to remove the basis of his game. Certainly I think that Shogun should hold the UFC lightheavyweight title , as he has once again proven to be the best heavyweight in MMA and vale todo.

Thanks and greetings.


----------



## Soojooko

I wanted a competitive fight. Gods damn I got one! How truly wonderful was that?!

Anybody thinking this was robbery, it wasn't. It was a close fight and that's un-debatable. If you disagree I beg you to get hold of the fight on your computer, and have a good look at the exchanges. Lyoto landed A LOT of shots. Many of them directly before, during and after Shoguns stunning kicks. Far more subtle than the kicks but very effective. Easily missed if you blink or are focused on Shougn for a split second. But, with hindsight ( a downloaded AVI with VirtualDub and some frame by frame analysis ) Machida out struck Shogun.

I agree with CC420. Machida ate those kicks all night and attacked. Everybody talks about the look of frustration and shock on Lyotos face, which was true... and quite nice to see for once! BUT, Shogun equally had a look of, "Man, this mutherf***er is hardcore." throughout the fight.

Interesting that Shogun said his corner thought he had the fight won. It was as if he himself wasnt convinced. I'm sure Lyoto wasnt convinced either.

Great feckin' fight. I love both these guys more than ever now. A rematch is a must, if only because these two guys would demolish the rest of the division.


----------



## Nomale

Bah! You're all pissdrinkers! The judges too! I suspected that pissdrinkers looked out for each other but this is way too blatant. I'm not generally fond of conspiracy, but this makes the most reason by far. 

Btw the "f" part of the ufc belt should be changed from "fighting" to "re" as in "rule exploiting".

I'M NOT BITTER! :angry08: :sarcastic01:


----------



## The Don

Soojooko said:


> I wanted a competitive fight. Gods damn I got one! How truly wonderful was that?!
> 
> Anybody thinking this was robbery, it wasn't. It was a close fight and that's un-debatable. If you disagree I beg you to get hold of the fight on your computer, and have a good look at the exchanges. Lyoto landed A LOT of shots. Many of them directly before, during and after Shoguns stunning kicks. Far more subtle than the kicks but very effective. Easily missed if you blink or are focused on Shougn for a split second. But, with hindsight ( a downloaded AVI with VirtualDub and some frame by frame analysis ) Machida out struck Shogun.
> 
> I agree with CC420. Machida ate those kicks all night and attacked. Everybody talks about the look of frustration and shock on Lyotos face, which was true... and quite nice to see for once! BUT, Shogun equally had a look of, "Man, this mutherf***er is hardcore." throughout the fight.
> 
> Interesting that Shogun said his corner thought he had the fight won. It was as if he himself wasnt convinced. I'm sure Lyoto wasnt convinced either.
> 
> Great feckin' fight. I love both these guys more than ever now. A rematch is a must, if only because these two guys would demolish the rest of the division.


I made a few posts here and other palces right after I watched it. .then I ewatched it like 3 more times.. It was alot closer then it appears.. Rua kicks were so forceful and powerful that you missed alot of what Lyoto was doing.. I would love a rematch.. this will be awesome.. I still think Rua took it.. and I picked Lyoto to win.. I'll have to rewatch this again and try to score it closer see what I come up with..


----------



## BobbyCooper

Hello MMA Fans  
I signed up today to finally post some own opinions on this great Forum. I am already reading this Forum for about half a year now, now i finally made my step in  Please excuse my Grammar, i am German and i will try my best.

For the first post i wanna tell you my thoughts about the Machida vs. Shogun Fight! 
After i watched it the first time, i was crying after the 5 round ended. Because i really thought it was possible, that Machida could lose his belt tonight. After tears of sadniss it switched to tears of happiness  after the judges scored the fight to Lyoto. I knew it was a damn close fight, but after i watched it a second time without rogans commentary on a japanese channel, i changed my mind about it. I had Machida in front until the 3 round. For me Machida won the 1,2 and even the 3 round. The 4 was pretty damn close this could have gone either way. The 5 was obv shoguns. 

After the judges scored the fight for machida, i was so happy for him. Because i think Lyoto deserves it so much. He is such an awesom human being. In my opinion, nobody represence the MMA Sport in a better way then he does. Lyoto deserves every close decision to his site. 

@Coldcall i am big fan of youre posts. They are always well written and super nicely to read. I love it how you defend our boy Lyoto in every post. He deserves it in every way! I will try my best to do it the same way like you do. 

Lyoto is such a great human being and such a great fighter. Plzz dont hate on him because he won this decision. After i heard the growd buhhing on him i felt so sad  one of the worst moments for him. Because he always tries to put on such a great show and is always so Respectfull and kind to everybody. My tears didnt dry after this!

Lyoto i love you from the bottom of my heart  Plz give up some love for one of the greatest of all time. A true warrior! 

Lyoto Forever!!!raise01:


----------



## ufcrules

WOW! 2 hours of my life I'll never get back. Crap fights, crap decision. What a stinker. Dana, please send me a refund for the 4 beers and double order of wings it cost me at my local. If I'd spend $50 for the PPV at home, I'd be suing.



BobbyCooper said:


> Hello MMA Fans
> I signed up today to finally post some own opinions on this great Forum. I am already reading this Forum for about half a year now, now i finally made my step in  Please excuse my Grammar, i am German and i will try my best.:


Welcome aboard Bobby. English is fine. You can be our official German correspondent!


----------



## BobbyCooper

haha yea thx it already feels like home


----------



## The Don

yea welcome.. I have many friends in and from Germany.. glad to have you.. and your English is better then many who speak/type it natively


----------



## coldcall420

Bobby Cooper, Welcome to the Forum glad you joined us. Perfect place for all things MMA and a of great members if you have any probs or need anything just hit up the staff. 

Enjoy your time here...:thumbsup:


----------



## Jamal

I just wached this fight, and im blown away by the judges.

Lytoto knows inside that belt is not his.

A rematch does no one any good, now Machida can train for that game plan that Shogun was using.

Seriously, the belt should be handed over.


----------



## swpthleg

BobbyCooper said:


> Hello MMA Fans
> I signed up today to finally post some own opinions on this great Forum. I am already reading this Forum for about half a year now, now i finally made my step in  Please excuse my Grammar, i am German and i will try my best.
> 
> For the first post i wanna tell you my thoughts about the Machida vs. Shogun Fight!
> After i watched it the first time, i was crying after the 5 round ended. Because i really thought it was possible, that Machida could lose his belt tonight. After tears of sadniss it switched to tears of happiness  after the judges scored the fight to Lyoto. I knew it was a damn close fight, but after i watched it a second time without rogans commentary on a japanese channel, i changed my mind about it. I had Machida in front until the 3 round. For me Machida won the 1,2 and even the 3 round. The 4 was pretty damn close this could have gone either way. The 5 was obv shoguns.
> 
> After the judges scored the fight for machida, i was so happy for him. Because i think Lyoto deserves it so much. He is such an awesom human being. In my opinion, nobody represence the MMA Sport in a better way then he does. Lyoto deserves every close decision to his site.
> 
> @Coldcall i am big fan of youre posts. They are always well written and super nicely to read. I love it how you defend our boy Lyoto in every post. He deserves it in every way! I will try my best to do it the same way like you do.
> 
> Lyoto is such a great human being and such a great fighter. Plzz dont hate on him because he won this decision. After i heard the growd buhhing on him i felt so sad  one of the worst moments for him. Because he always tries to put on such a great show and is always so Respectfull and kind to everybody. My tears didnt dry after this!
> 
> Lyoto i love you from the bottom of my heart  Plz give up some love for one of the greatest of all time. A true warrior!
> 
> Lyoto Forever!!!raise01:


Wilkommen bei MMAF, und ich denke dein englische ist sehr gut.


----------

