# Silva is attending UFC 154.



## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

> In less than two weeks, long-reigning UFC Welterweight Champion Georges St-Pierre will step back in the Octagon for the first time since April of 2011. He'll be greeted from his lengthy injury hiatus by one of the most dangerous challengers he's ever faced in Interim Champion Carlos Condit, but if he gets past that test, he may have an even bigger one awaiting him afterward.
> 
> For quite some time, there has been talk surrounding the potential for a super fight between St-Pierre and UFC Middleweight Champion Anderson Silva. The Brazilian superstar himself has been eying that particular matchup, and a win by St-Pierre in Montreal could be the final step needed to set the fight up.
> 
> ...


MMA Torch (source)


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

"Anderson, where you at mothertrucker"


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Could you imagine what would happen if he told GSP he was not impressed by his performance?

MMA Forums would go down.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Could you imagine what would happen if he told GSP he was not impressed by his performance?
> 
> MMA Forums would go down.


Ohhhhhh that would be GREAT!:thumb02:


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Could you imagine what would happen if he told GSP he was not impressed by his performance?


When was the last time GSP displayed an impressive performance anyway?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> When was the last time GSP displayed an impressive performance anyway?


Well personally I find most of his performances impressive because he just dominates his opponents for 25min.

But
In my opinion it looked like Gsp was on track to getting a finish against Jake shields up until he got poked in the eye and coudlnt see out of it. I think if I remember correctly he dropped Jake shields twice and had his timing down and then the eye poke came and put a stop to that. But there is no way to know for sure so take it with a grain of salt.

All that matters now is how gsp performs against Carlos Condit. Surpisingly I wouldn't be surprised if Condit wins via flying knee as gsp shoots in. I can't see Condit winning any other way. 

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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> When was the last time GSP displayed an impressive performance anyway?


When he nearly retired Koscheck with a jab?


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

In all fairness Jake hasn't proven that much since entering the UFC though. He never had the success that he had prior to joining, and most of his fights are lackluster at best and his stand-up is positively dreadful. Hopefully St. Pierre comes back hungry off this layoff and it's a great fight. But I seriously doubt there will be a finish.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> When he nearly retired Koscheck with a jab?


They went the distance both times they fought, anyway.

I really respect GSP for his discipline, drive and accomplishments. He is a great champion. I rather state his dominance as a champion is impressive instead of his performances IMO. 


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> When was the last time GSP displayed an impressive performance anyway?


Every time he completely shuts down his opponent, which would be nearly all of his fights. 

If someone asked me if GSP was exciting I would tell you "hell no". But the notion that he doesn't win impressively is just so retarded it makes my brain hurt.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> When was the last time GSP displayed an impressive performance anyway?






























Oh yeah, guess none of those were impressive. You know absolutely destroying 3 top WW fighters...

GSP may not have had the most exciting past few fights but no one can argue that he hasn't been impressive. He has absolutely destroyed his opponents, imo he hasn't lost a round since his loss to Serra in 2007(some argue that Shields stole a round or two but I didn't see it) and he has won multiple 10-8 rounds... And in 2 fights he has had significant injuries to deal with(groin against Alves and eye against Shields). 

His now 9 fight winning streak has been nothing but impressive... Like I said before maybe not that exciting at times but definitely impressive. No other fighter dominates fights the way he does and no other fighter has won as many fights as he has while not even coming close to losing.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> They went the distance both times they fought, anyway.
> 
> I really respect GSP for his discipline, drive and accomplishments. He is a great champion. I rather state his dominance as a champion is impressive instead of his performances IMO.
> 
> ...


So since he didnt finish them that means they wernt impressive???

Not everyone sees it the way you do.

I find some of GSPs victories alot more impressive then alot of finishes.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

In before Anderson invites GSP to his bar b que.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> So since he didnt finish them that means they wernt impressive???
> 
> Not everyone sees it the way you do.
> 
> I find some of GSPs victories alot more impressive then alot of finishes.


I have to agree with him though. Every finish is more impressive than any decision in my opinion even if the guy who wins gets beaten on for 24 minutes. If you don't finish, you failed the objective of the fight. It's like sex without orgasms. Still pretty damn fun but you're not really satisfied afterwards.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I have to agree with him though. Every finish is more impressive than any decision in my opinion even if the guy who wins gets beaten on for 24 minutes. If you don't finish, you failed the objective of the fight. It's like sex without orgasms. Still pretty damn fun but you're not really satisfied afterwards.


I disagree even though I'm absolutely in favor for finishes. But in my opinion not every finish is more impressive than any decision. A lot of finishes are lucky shots with one or both fighters swinging for the fences and one strike luckily hits the right spot. Relying on luck doesn't impress me that much, in those cases I find St. Pierre's sheer dominance more impressive. A different thing are finishes were the fighter really is aware of the fighting situation, in control of the situation or at least of himself and consciously puts the other guy away (i.e. Anderson Silva, submission wins generally).


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Could you imagine what would happen if he told GSP he was not impressed by his performance?
> 
> MMA Forums would go down.


Ahahahaha. That would absolutely be the best.


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

*If GSP Wins at UFC 154, Anderson Silva Will Likely Step Into the Octagon to Challenge*








​


> UFC middleweight champion Anderson Silva will be cage side at UFC 154 when Georges St-Pierre faces Carlos Condit for the undisputed welterweight championship.
> 
> Silva’s presence is notable for essentially one reason – because he plans on calling out St-Pierre if he’s victorious at UFC 154.
> 
> ...


I didn't want to create another thread about this but here is another article confirming this.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

GSP has had several impressive performances. 

I find it funny though when people say "he was on his way" or "he was close to finishing so and so" 

Since when does a potential finish count for anything in the way of a finish? Fighters get beat to a T without getting finished every card. You either finish or you don't. If you can't seem to finish a guy who is bloodied, gassed, has 1 eye, has no stand up skills....then you really aren't a finisher. Even if you may be dominant.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> Not everyone sees it the way you do.


Oh, absolutely.



Voiceless said:


> A lot of finishes are lucky shots with one or both fighters swinging for the fences and one strike luckily hits the right spot. Relying on luck doesn't impress me that much, in those cases I find St. Pierre's sheer dominance more impressive. A different thing are finishes were the fighter really is aware of the fighting situation, in control of the situation or at least of himself and consciously puts the other guy away (i.e. Anderson Silva, submission wins generally).


Agree with you, but the thread itself is about GSP and Anderson, so I did not consider lucky shots. Anyway, *swinging for the fences* is not only a lucky move, it is for some, a legit and very efficient technique. It's comparing a pistol vs a machine gun. Each weapon will have its application. When Vitor or Wand start(or used to...) to swing, their opponents will be the lucky ones *IF NOT* being caught by one to the face.

Just to erase any doubt. When I asked when was GSP last impressive victory I didn't mean he never had one. I just don't like his burocratic style.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Voiceless said:


> I disagree even though I'm absolutely in favor for finishes. But in my opinion not every finish is more impressive than any decision. A lot of finishes are lucky shots with one or both fighters swinging for the fences and one strike luckily hits the right spot. Relying on luck doesn't impress me that much, in those cases I find St. Pierre's sheer dominance more impressive. A different thing are finishes were the fighter really is aware of the fighting situation, in control of the situation or at least of himself and consciously puts the other guy away (i.e. Anderson Silva, submission wins generally).


I don't think there's anything such as a lucky shot. Fists are thrown with the intention of hitting someone's chin. If you can finish your opponent it sends a clear message.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I don't think there's anything such as a lucky shot. Fists are thrown with the intention of hitting someone's chin. If you can finish your opponent it sends a clear message.


I think there are lucky punches. Same thing as a full court shot in basketball. Was his intention to make it? Sure. Was it a lucky shot? Absolutely.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Silva can suck dese nuts.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

So Anderson is going to challenge GSP after the fight? I know Dana talks alot but he better not be bullshitting. I also hope GSP accepts.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I don't think there's anything such as a lucky shot. Fists are thrown with the intention of hitting someone's chin. If you can finish your opponent it sends a clear message.


Yea I never understood this either. Sure if one guy is getting his ass handed to him and isn't landing much all fight...then out of no where he lands a KO punch...that could be considered sort of lucky...as he was outmatched all fight.

But like you said, fighters intend to put their fist or foot to chin. If they pull off what they are TRYING to do, how is it luck? Never understood that. I can't recall a semi-recent fight ending in luck or something that can be considered luck.


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0;1645500[B said:


> ]I don't think there's anything such as a lucky shot. [/B]Fists are thrown with the intention of hitting someone's chin. If you can finish your opponent it sends a clear message.


I very much agree, with the exception of Kongo ktfo Pat Berry, I think that was a lucky punch for the most part.

GSP may not always be exciting but he is pretty dominant..imo


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

locnott said:


> I very much agree, with the exception of Kongo ktfo Pat Berry, I think that was a lucky punch for the most part.
> 
> GSP may not always be exciting but he is pretty dominant..imo


Sort of. He was more lucky he was clear headed enough to throw an accurate punch.

But if a guy, let alone HW charges in with his hands down and no thought of defense...he should expect to get KO'd.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I don't think there's anything such as a lucky shot. Fists are thrown with the intention of hitting someone's chin. If you can finish your opponent it sends a clear message.


Yes and no. As mentioned before, having a shotgun or machine gun strategy of overwhelming an opponent isn't lucky if its done in the right way against the right opponent.

HOWEVER, simply having the intention of doing something and then doing it, doesn't mean it wasn't lucky, I can say, I intend to score a half court shot facing away from the basket and actually do it, but does it mean I wasn't lucky?

Intention has no inherent connection with luck.


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## BOMDC (Feb 13, 2011)

Man they are really trying to jam this fight and the Jones/Silva fight down everyone's throat. I feel like the interest in this has died down since GSP's layoff and it doesn't seem like either fighter is into it that much. Is there even a clip of Anderson showing any enthusiasm in getting this fight? I only hear Soares mentioning it.


I think it's a little ill timed plus there's a lot of question marks around GSP's condition considering the layoff and the injury. Who knows, he might be better now that he's hungrier as he's been saying but it's definitely a stretch. I would want him to fight another top 170er and then see if the people demand the Silva fight.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Yea I never understood this either. Sure if one guy is getting his ass handed to him and isn't landing much all fight...then out of no where he lands a KO punch...that could be considered sort of lucky...as he was outmatched all fight.
> 
> But like you said, fighters intend to put their fist or foot to chin. If they pull off what they are TRYING to do, how is it luck? Never understood that. I can't recall a semi-recent fight ending in luck or something that can be considered luck.


Luck isn't measured by how determined you are to make some thing happen, it's measured by how likely and how often you are able to do that one thing.

For example, I'm a terrible darts player. If I went into a darts game and my intention was to hit the bullseye with my first shot and I actually hit it, that would be considered an incredibly lucky shot. It doesn't matter if it was my intention to hit the bullseye and I hit it, what matters is the likely-hood of me hitting that bullseye consistently. The chances are very slim, because I'm rubbish.

Matt Serra KO'ing GSP could be considered an example of a lucky finish. Here's a guy with no proven real KO power who comes into the fight as a huge underdog and KO's George in the first round. Sure, he intended to KO George, but how often is he likely to pull that off? Not very likely at all.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I'd laugh if Anderson Silva challenges GSP, GSP says, 'Cool story, bro', and exits the cage. 

In reality, they've probably both been prepared for this. I'm certain that if GSP wins, this is to be the plan going forward, and has been for some time. I doubt Dana and the UFC would allow Anderson to enter the cage and challenge GSP without GSP being remotely aware or agreeable.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Canadian Psycho said:


> *I'd laugh if Anderson Silva challenges GSP, GSP says, 'Cool story, bro', and exits the cage. *
> 
> In reality, they've probably both been prepared for this. I'm certain that if GSP wins, this is to be the plan going forward, and has been for some time. I doubt Dana and the UFC would allow Anderson to enter the cage and challenge GSP without GSP being remotely aware or agreeable.


That would actually be hilarious. Especially with GSPS's robotic voice and accent, ha ha.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Luck isn't measured by how determined you are to make some thing happen, it's measured by how likely and how often you are able to do that one thing.
> 
> For example, I'm a terrible darts player. If I went into a darts game and my intention was to hit the bullseye with my first shot and I actually hit it, that would be considered an incredibly lucky shot. It doesn't matter if it was my intention to hit the bullseye and I hit it, what matters is the likely-hood of me hitting that bullseye consistently. The chances are very slim, because I'm rubbish.
> 
> Matt Serra KO'ing GSP could be considered an example of a lucky finish. Here's a guy with no proven real KO power who comes into the fight as a huge underdog and KO's George in the first round. Sure, he intended to KO George, but how often is he likely to pull that off? Not very likely at all.


Couldn't have said it better myself. Lucky KOs happen all the time. As other have said intention has very little to do with luck since you can intend to do something with extremely low probability and succeed.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Luck isn't measured by how determined you are to make some thing happen, it's measured by how likely and how often you are able to do that one thing.
> 
> For example, I'm a terrible darts player. If I went into a darts game and my intention was to hit the bullseye with my first shot and I actually hit it, that would be considered an incredibly lucky shot. It doesn't matter if it was my intention to hit the bullseye and I hit it, what matters is the likely-hood of me hitting that bullseye consistently. The chances are very slim, because I'm rubbish.
> 
> Matt Serra KO'ing GSP could be considered an example of a lucky finish. Here's a guy with no proven real KO power who comes into the fight as a huge underdog and KO's George in the first round. Sure, he intended to KO George, but how often is he likely to pull that off? Not very likely at all.


Very well put.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Iuanes said:


> Yes and no. As mentioned before, having a shotgun or machine gun strategy of overwhelming an opponent isn't lucky if its done in the right way against the right opponent.
> 
> HOWEVER, simply having the intention of doing something and then doing it, doesn't mean it wasn't lucky, I can say, I intend to score a half court shot facing away from the basket and actually do it, but does it mean I wasn't lucky?
> 
> Intention has no inherent connection with luck.


Some things can't be compared like that.

How many Half Court shots are attempted in a game? How many punches to the chin are attempted in a fight?

When a guy is standing 3 feet from you and KO's you...it wasn't really luck. He is expecting to hit you in the chin. When an NBA player makes the only half court shot he attempts in a game all year...he is shocked it was sort of luck. Can the same average Joe make that shot at the same % as Lebron James? No. There is mass skill involved to get it there and on line. 

There may be luck involved in a KO. But the vast majority is skill/intention. The luck is more in what your opponents defense is. You may throw a power shot, but if he defends like an idiot you were lucky he did. 

Fighters practice punching fighters in the face every day for a majority of the day....whether it is GnP or striking. 

Basketball players, while they do "practice" full court shots, it in no way compares to the practice MMA fighters put into punching and KOing their opponent.

So the 2 situations are really in no way comparable. Practice makes perfect they say. One is practiced on the daily. The other is fooled around with, not really stressed by coaches and trainers to bother practicing.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Luck isn't measured by how determined you are to make some thing happen, it's measured by how likely and how often you are able to do that one thing.
> 
> For example, I'm a terrible darts player. If I went into a darts game and my intention was to hit the bullseye with my first shot and I actually hit it, that would be considered an incredibly lucky shot. It doesn't matter if it was my intention to hit the bullseye and I hit it, what matters is the likely-hood of me hitting that bullseye consistently. The chances are very slim, because I'm rubbish.
> 
> Matt Serra KO'ing GSP could be considered an example of a lucky finish. Here's a guy with no proven real KO power who comes into the fight as a huge underdog and KO's George in the first round. Sure, he intended to KO George, but how often is he likely to pull that off? Not very likely at all.


MMA is an unlikely sport. They are big well trained men who punch eachother with 4oz gloves. There is no exact science. Is Mir lucky to sub Nog because in most instances they would cancel eachother out? Or was he just better on that night and there was no luck involved? 

It has something to do with practice. Does it not? I refuse to call something that men practice daily...as luck. It is their life. They drill it over and over and over again. 

Matt Serra's finish is certainly more "lucky" than Anderson making Bonnar look foolish. But I wouldn't call it "luck". Silva is simply the better fighter and striker. Matt Serra wasn't trying to take GSP down that night. He was looking to catch him. And he did. he practiced how he would punch GSP in the face, GSP wilted, and he did it.

In a team match. Lets say basketball. The NBA. The Miami Heat should be way better than the Nets. They may be HUGE favorites. But if the Nets beat them that night is is considered "luck"? Why because they aren't the better team? They practice every day to outscore their opponents using offense and defense. It wouldn't be luck.

Fighters aren't machines. It isn't lotto tickets where there are so many winners on scratch offs. You have to factor in how good they fight on a particular night. A fighter may have a great night and his opponent may have fought no where near his capability. It is who brings it on a given night.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> MMA is an unlikely sport. They are big well trained men who punch eachother with 4oz gloves. There is no exact science. Is Mir lucky to sub Nog because in most instances they would cancel eachother out? Or was he just better on that night and there was no luck involved?
> 
> It has something to do with practice. Does it not? I refuse to call something that men practice daily...as luck. It is their life. They drill it over and over and over again.
> 
> ...


Yes MMA is a sport where "any thing can happen and any one can get knocked out" as they say, but just like any thing else in life, you can still measure luck in this sport and intention still hasn't got any thing to do with it.

Serra's finish was considered lucky for a number of reasons, and again, it doesn't matter if it was his intention to KO Georges'. I'm sure it was BJ's Alves', Koschecks etc intentions to KO Georges and I bet they practised for weeks on end too, but they couldn't do it.

Serra was never known for KO power leading up to the GSP fight, in fact he had zero KO's in his entire career before that GSP fight. Then you have to take into consideration how GSP has always been an impeccable defensive fighter. When you weigh every thing up, the chances of Serra KO'ing GSP like that are incredibly slim. Regardless of how badly he wanted to do it.

I agree that in this sport any thing can happen, but luck can still be measured, just to a lesser degree than in most other sports.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Luck isn't measured by how determined you are to make some thing happen, it's measured by how likely and how often you are able to do that one thing.


"it is measured by how likely and how often you are able to do that one thing"

Ok. Lets take "winning" as that one "thing".

By this logic (correct me if I am wrong) any underdog fighter. Or any fighter who wins at a less % than the opponent he is fighting....if he were to beat that guy who is "more likely...often wins" that means he is lucky?

I mean going by your words that would be the case. If a 7-7 fighter beats a 12-2 fighter it is automatically luck because he wins less often.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Luck is not 'unlikeliness'. Luck is when you're doing nothing but still achieve. Just because something is unlikely doens't mean it's lucky if you're successful. Winning the lottery isn't lucky, it's basic maths. Winning the lottery without buying a ticket... that's lucky. Knocking somebody out after throwing your fist isn't lucky. Knocking somebody out with a tooth flying from your mouth that has been loosened by a kick from your opponent... that's lucky.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Some things can't be compared like that.
> 
> How many Half Court shots are attempted in a game? How many punches to the chin are attempted in a fight?
> 
> ...


I'm simply countering the point that simply because you intended to do something it means it wasn't lucky. Obviously a basketball shot isn't like an MMA fight but the principle remains across both actions. 

Your'e basically saying that landing a KO punch is easier than a half court shot, which is irrelevant. I used the half-court shot analogy to make more lucid the fact that intention has nothing to do with luck inherently (though it is often necessary to intend something in order to make it happen). 

Of course you train to throw punch and connect. But fighters also train not to be punched and to defend. Its about relative skill, not absolute skill. Its hard to make a half court shot, and its hard to KO someone better than you are. 

The fact that it is supposedly easier to get a KO works against your argument as well, because it means it is also easy to be KOed, and thus not KO your opponent.

Just because you want, just because have trained to throw a punch, or trained to shoot a basketball, the chances are against you. If you happen to succeed, despite these chances being against you, we generally call that luck. The fact that you wanted to succeed, and in the moment wanted to do what you did, has no bearing on the fact that is was luck if looked at in isolation.

Essentially, can you say you would be able to pull that KO the majority of the time if you fight 10 times in the same conditions? If the answer is no, then its mostly luck.

Again, I'm just countering the argument that because intention is there, it isn't lucky. I'm not saying a KO against the odds is ENTIRELY lucky. A fighter needs to have skills, power, perserverence, endurance, or whatever other factors helping him, but this is all relative to his opponent.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

*Luck or chance: is fortune (whether bad or good) which occurs beyond one's control, without regard to one's will, intention, or desired result. *

I would say Serra had control of his punches. And it wasn't beyond his control.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> "it is measured by how likely and how often you are able to do that one thing"
> 
> Ok. Lets take "winning" as that one "thing".
> 
> ...


You knew what I meant and you are just arguing semantics here. Everyone is familiar with the term "styles makes fights" in this sport and that's because it's true.

The luck I was referring to in this sport is measured by how likely Fighter A is to pull off that one method of victory in said fight.

In a purely hypothetical situation, let's say Dan Henderson fought GSP (lets say they were in the same weight class) and Hendo comes out and KO's GSP in the first round like Serra did. I wouldn't consider that a lucky shot like Serras for a number of reasons I said in my last post. Dan being notorious for his brutal over hand right, Serra having no KO's on his record etc.

As for your Mir/Nog scenario, I think that was a case of one fighter purely being better on that one night. Both of those guys are extremely high level submission artists and on that night, Mir managed to seize on the submission opportunity and pulled it off. So I wouldn't class it as lucky, simply because of how good Mir is with submissions. Now if Dave Herman the other week came out and submitted Nog, I'd label it as lucky.

I preserve luck in this sport for only the most extreme situations, such as - Serra/GSP, Chonan/Anderson Silva, Paulo Thiago/Koscheck etc etc.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

GrappleRetarded said:


> You knew what I meant and you are just arguing semantics here. Everyone is familiar with the term "styles makes fights" in this sport and that's because it's true.
> 
> The luck I was referring to in this sport is measured by how likely Fighter A is to pull off that one method of victory in said fight.
> 
> ...


If we are sitting here trying to define luck...then we should be able to apply it to everything. Using your words you said "it is measured by how likely and how often you are able to do that one thing". You used that notion to back your case. Why can't I use it to back mine? If what you said is what you meant, then a fighter with a smaller % of victory beating a fighter with a higher % (or probability) of victory...is luck...or lucky.

Bottom line is it is not. You know this and I know this. It isn't because 2 pro fighters are in there with tons of practice behind them. Some fighters have off nights. Some have good nights. 

GSP may have had an off night. Matt Serra may be lucky to have caught GSP on his "off night" (again fighters aren't machines)...but taht actual punch and result wasn't luck. 

With this logic...If GSP finishes anyone in the next 5 years, he will have been lucky. Because these days it is not probable. If he finished Condit it would be LUCK because Condit rarely gets finishes and GSP rarely finishes. Would this example be correct? Or do we want to cherry pick scenarios some more?

And I agree with your last point. I never said there was no ounce of luck in this. I said Luck in no way out-weighs skill in terms of a fighter KOing another. May be luck in the other defense and timing...but it was skill and practice to do it. Luck is few and far between in this sport.

I wouldn't agree with your Paulo Thiago example. Kos is far from an expert striker. Paulo throws heavy hands. Wasn't luck. It was Kos leaving himself wide open and not reacting. What if Paulo landed a jab on Kos? Is that luck? What does the power he have behind something have to do with luck? He threw the punch hard. It landed. It KO'd him.

Did he not mean to throw that punch hard or something??


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> *Luck or chance: is fortune (whether bad or good) which occurs beyond one's control, without regard to one's will, intention, or desired result. *
> 
> I would say Serra had control of his punches. And it wasn't beyond his control.


Thats one way to cherry pick a definition, where did you get it? firstly, from dictionary.com

*1.the force that seems to operate for good or ill in a person's life, as in shaping circumstances, events, or opportunities: With my luck I'll probably get pneumonia.
2.
good fortune; advantage or success, considered as the result of chance: He had no luck finding work.
3.
a combination of circumstances, events, etc., operating by chance to bring good or ill to a person: She's had nothing but bad luck all year.
4.
some object on which good fortune is supposed to depend: This rabbit's foot is my luck*

Secondly, even using your definition we can still arrive at luck beyond your intention. Using the Serra example you need to ask the question what was the main factor in his win? His own ability or the surrounding circumstances (ie GSP's carelessness, lack of focus)

If GSP is the overall better fighter, the fight will go beyond one's control and _against_ one's own will. Regardless of whether you think GSP is the vastly superior fighter, the categorization remains the revelant point.

In a fight, 2 forces go against each other, the stronger force becomes the circumstance or fortune that imposes itself on the other actor. When we say someone got lucky, we say it precisely because they were up against a force, which_ should have_, negated their will.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> If we are sitting here trying to define luck...then we should be able to apply it to everything. Using your words you said "it is measured by how likely and how often you are able to do that one thing". You used that notion to back your case. Why can't I use it to back mine? If what you said is what you meant, then a fighter with a smaller % of victory beating a fighter with a higher % (or probability) of victory...is luck...or lucky.
> 
> Bottom line is it is not. You know this and I know this. It isn't because 2 pro fighters are in there with tons of practice behind them. Some fighters have off nights. Some have good nights.
> 
> ...


If GSP came out and casually knocked out Condit, yes, I would consider that to be lucky.

We all seem to have different interpretations of what actually constitutes as luck though, so we're not getting any where.

We'll have to agree to disagree.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

GrappleRetarded said:


> If GSP came out and casually knocked out Condit, yes, I would consider that to be lucky.
> 
> We all seem to have different interpretations of what actually constitutes as luck though, so we're not getting any where.
> 
> We'll have to agree to disagree.


I don't see the difference between GSP casually KOing Condit. Or him performing the same KO after 3 rounds of a hard fought fight. I don't see a difference. 

But I do stand by your logic in terms of GSP being LUCKY if he finishes Condit. GSP rarely finishes anyone...even less caliber fighters. Condit rarely gets finished now that he has matured. It will be 100% LUCK if GSP happens to finish anyone let alone Condit. It just isn't PROBABLE. 

But then again I don't care for GSP. :thumb02:

Yea I agree to disagree. We really aren't going anywhere.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Iuanes said:


> In a fight, 2 forces go against each other, the stronger force becomes the circumstance or fortune that imposes itself on the other actor. When we say someone got lucky, we say it precisely because they were up against a force, which_ should have_, negated their will.


My definition was lazy and was from Wiki.

Thing here is no one can measure the "force" of a fighter.

Some people will say Erick Silva has more KO power than Paul Daley. No one can measure it really.

Some people would say GSP has a weak chin and wilts when he gets hit. Some people would say Serra, although rarely finishes by KO (he is a Jitz guy with short arms) generates a lot of power because he is physically strong and throws power punches most often over jabs and point punches.

It is all opinion as to which force is stronger in MMA. It is all based on opponents faced. Shogun has very few sub wins. Does that mean if he sub'd a solid ground fighter it would be luck? I don't think so. 

There is no science to this. Just loads of practice. Years of it. To do exactly what Serra did. I myself can't count that as luck.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

There is no such thing as a lucky punch, since the fighter threw the punch with the intention of it landing on the opponent.

If, however, the fighter didn't throw a punch at all and the opponent still got knocked out... That is a lucky punch.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Certainly there is no direct measure. Hence the joy in watching a fight.

Read my 2nd last post concerning the degree of luck required. I agree its never all luck.

To say however, because I intended, there was no luck involved, is as preposterous as saying Serra winning was entirely lucky.

I can do and have trained to do a pretty good tornado kick. If I fight Anderson Silva and honestly think to myself, I'm going to try a tornado kick and knock him out, and then, I actually do, there's no better word choice to describe what happened but as 'lucky'.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

hellholming said:


> There is no such thing as a lucky punch, since the fighter threw the punch with the intention of it landing on the opponent.
> 
> If, however, the fighter didn't throw a punch at all and the opponent still got knocked out... That is a lucky punch.


What about the punches the fighter doesn't intend?

Training can lead to automation, when a fighter is rocked, he might throw an unconscious punch and hit. Again, if he connects, one would have to say it was rather lucky, but one would also have to credit the training involved to cement that automation.

In this case, intent at the moment, has nothing to do whatsoever with the 'luck' of the outcome.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Ape City said:


> If someone asked me if GSP was exciting I would tell you "hell no". But the notion that he doesn't win impressively is just so retarded it makes my brain hurt.


It was a simple and fair question. You could respectfully give your answer like other posters did. Now because you get impressed easier than me you feel like offending people. I suggest you undergo a brain scan 'cause your brain may be hurting for some other reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> *Luck or chance: is fortune (whether bad or good) which occurs beyond one's control, without regard to one's will, intention, or desired result. *
> 
> I would say Serra had control of his punches. And it wasn't beyond his control.


The thing is, people are not fully in control in a striking exchange, because the movement partly so fast that it is beyond the reaction time of their nervous system.

That's why you occasionally see great strikers getting KOed by mediocre strikers, but you will almost never see a great grappler getting submitted by a mediocre grappler (gotten beat up before aside).

Of course, it's not pure luck if a mediocre striker KOes a great striker, because he has trained to strike, but there certainly is a luck factor in it.

Striking is maybe comparable to poker, where you can train your calculating abilities, psychology etc., but still there is a luck factor. A good poker player would win most of the times, but even a complete beginner could win if he gets good cards. Grappling is more like chess where the better player would basically always win against a weaker opponent. That's because your brain can react much faster on tactile information than on visual information.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Iuanes said:


> To say however, because I intended, there was no luck involved, is as preposterous as saying Serra winning was entirely lucky.
> 
> I can do and have trained to do a pretty good tornado kick. If I fight Anderson Silva and honestly think to myself, I'm going to try a tornado kick and knock him out, and then, I actually do, there's no better word choice to describe what happened but as 'lucky'.


There in lies the difference, these are all pros that get paid to fight MMA. Matt Serra was a capable fighter. A vet. GSP was still fairly young, had all the confidence at the time...and was caught by a guy who trained MMA for years. Who works with a hell of a boxing coach daily...

It also would matter exactly how effective or or good your kick was. Is it world class? I would be surprised if Maia beat Anderson in and MMA fight even by sub. But in a straight BJJ contest I would expect him to win by a wide margin. 

If Damien Maia intended on subbing Anderson (which he was) in an MMA fight...and pulled it off...I wouldn't call that luck. He is a BJJ Ace and trained to do that. As much of an MMA upset it would of been...it wouldn't of been luck. 

If you had a world class kick...like Maia's world class BJJ. And happened to catch Anderson standing...I wouldn't be surprised. Again, we are talking pro fighters...and yourself. 

Serra didn't have world class striking. But he was more experienced. He wasn't as young and naive. He had nothing to lose. It isn't out of the question that he was simply better that night and was more game for the fight.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Voiceless said:


> The thing is, people are not fully in control in a striking exchange, because the movement partly so fast that it is beyond the reaction time of their nervous system.
> 
> That's why you occasionally see great strikers getting KOed by mediocre strikers, but you will almost never see a great grappler getting submitted by a mediocre grappler (gotten beat up before aside).
> 
> ...


I don't agree with this fully. I get what you are saying by how for split seconds no fighter can react in such manner to fully use his skill and technique. But Anderson pretty much never lets anyone get lucky...and he strikes all the time...and he lets people hit him. 

And you are not factoring in gameplan or predictability in fighting. Sure some elite strikers get beat by average strikers. You may say a perfect example is Gonzo/Cro Cop? Seems like a nice example right? But CC didn't expect a high kick from him. He expected him to try and work his Jitz. That is a larger reason why the better striker got caught than any luck. Gonzo most likely practiced that. He had the balls to try and throw it vs. CC and timed it perfectly. You know how hard it is and how good you have to be to time and reach a high kick? Gonzo was smart enough to do the unthinkable. He threw the kick, so he intended on landing it. It did. The better striker in not going to always win...they aren't machines. But luck really isn't the word when Gonzo out smarted CC and landed a high kick. It isn't like CC has never been caught by lesser striker in practice. Every exchange in a fight is different.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> There in lies the difference, these are all pros that get paid to fight MMA. Matt Serra was a capable fighter. *A vet. GSP was still fairly young, had all the confidence at the time...*


And these were precisely things outside of Serra's control and arguably worked in his favour. This isn't about how lucky if at all, Serra was, but determining that dumb, at the moment intention, somehow nullifies the luck factor.



jonnyg4508 said:


> It also would matter exactly how effective or or good your kick was. Is it world class?


It's pretty shit, but it doesn't matter. Most people's striking is shit compared to Silva's. Hence, if I hit Silva, even though I trained the kicked and intended to hit Silva, really, its because Silva or the circumstances of the fight somehow favoured me (luck) that would have been the reason I connected.

Similarly, Maia's striking is relatively shit compared to Silva's. If he knocked Silva out I wouldn't say he could replicate that performance again if they fought 10 times.




jonnyg4508 said:


> If Damien Maia intended on subbing Anderson (which he was) in an MMA fight...and pulled it off...I wouldn't call that luck. He is a BJJ Ace and trained to do that. As much of an MMA upset it would of been...it wouldn't of been luck.


Sure, because Maia's BJJ game is much better than Silva's. But it would depend on the circumstances of the victory. Like if Maia had perfected his takedown game and was able to gain dominant positions. No one would call a sub from those positions lucky. He's Maia, thats what he does. But you can't tell me that the Ryo Chonan sub of Silva would be equally 'non-lucky' as the described Maia one. One was likely a desperate attempt (though intended), one was part of a dominant strategy (also intended). What is important here? not the immediate intention of the act, but the forces gathered before the fight.




jonnyg4508 said:


> Serra didn't have world class striking. But he was more experienced. He wasn't as young and naive. He had nothing to lose. It isn't out of the question that he was simply better that night and was more game for the fight.


Again, no one's denying that being in the UFC doesnt take skill, as I said before, your luck depends on the *relative *skill to your opponent. Arguably, Serra even came into the fight with a superior strategy to beat GSP, again we're using the fight as an example, but again, play that fight 10 times and ask yourself what happens.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

hellholming said:


> There is no such thing as a lucky punch, since the fighter threw the punch with the intention of it landing on the opponent.
> 
> If, however, the fighter didn't throw a punch at all and the opponent still got knocked out... That is a lucky punch.


What if you just wildly throw a punch because you just got rocked and ko the other guy? I would say you were lucky since you just threw the punch hoping anything would happen.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

what a pointless debate, you cant quantify luck, we cant even prove its existence, maybe what we call luck is something else, maybe luck does exist but you create it, thats why some ppl are lucky and some arent...if that were the case then luck would be a skill (i actually do think elite fighters also have luck as a skill)

but still its pointless since no1 can ever really say this or that was lucky, we dont even know the intentions of the blows thrown, not every punch is thrown to end a fight, i remember watching a couple of fights in wich the fighter that won said "i didnt throw it to KO him but i saw that he got rocked so i went for the finish" sure he hit him like he intended to but if the fighter admits that he didnt throw the strike with power to end the fight, but it still did...i guess you could maybe call that luck if you believe in luck but even then its still up for debate, some1 else could simply say it was destiny


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Iuanes said:


> And these were precisely things outside of Serra's control and arguably worked in his favour. This isn't about how lucky if at all, Serra was, but determining that dumb, at the moment intention, somehow nullifies the luck factor.


How is age and factors such as GSP's confidence luck? It is purely aspects of the fight. That is what happens to over-confident young fighters. All fighters have a wake up moment. How is that luck? I'm not following this at all.

And the fact of what would happen out of 10 times doesn't hold any weight. No one in the sport does that. It is all based on 1 night. Some guys bring it some guys don't. That is why I say they AREN'T MACHINES. It isn't a slot machine, it isn't how many times it hits out of 10 or 100. 

Take it for what it is. It was Serra training to take GSP's head off. It was GSP thinking Serra was no match. It was the vet landing a punch and knocking GSP down. It was what he intended to do. Just because a less striker loses. Or lesser fighter loses. Doesn't mean it was luck. Serra was the better fighter that night. He found GSP's chin and GSP let him do so. Serra won the fight like he trained for months to accomplish.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> For example, I'm a terrible darts player. If I went into a darts game and my intention was to hit the bullseye with my first shot and I actually hit it, that would be considered an incredibly lucky shot. It doesn't matter if it was my intention to hit the bullseye and I hit it, what matters is the likely-hood of me hitting that bullseye consistently. The chances are very slim, because I'm rubbish.


Not disagreeing in any way. I just would like to use this example to share a thought.
That was a good exemple for a lucky shot, but if you were allowed in that very game to throw several darts in a minimum period of time, the probability of hitting the bull's eye would increase dramatically and luck would be less significant then. So, to throw several darts, if allowed, would be a valid techinique to achieve your goal: bull's eye or KO punch.
]


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Not disagreeing in any way. I just would like to use this example to share a thought.
> That was a good exemple for a lucky shot, but if you were allowed in that very game to throw several darts in a minimum period of time, the probability of hitting the bull's eye would increase dramatically and luck would be less significant then. So, to throw several darts, if allowed, would be a valid techinique to achieve your goal: bull's eye or KO punch.
> ]


Good point.

I play darts maybe twice a year. If I hit the bulleye on my first shot it wouldn't be much of a shock. I probably wouldn't win a complete game, but in a game I will hit the bulleyes a couple times. Doesn't really make a difference if it the 1st throw, the 12th throw, or the last throw.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> How is age and factors such as GSP's confidence luck? It is purely aspects of the fight. That is what happens to over-confident young fighters. All fighters have a wake up moment. How is that luck? I'm not following this at all.


By your own definition its something outside of your control or will. In Serra's context he was lucky to fight GSP at a time in his career where he got a little cocky where he thought he didnt need to focus as much.



jonnyg4508 said:


> And the fact of what would happen out of 10 times doesn't hold any weight. No one in the sport does that. It is all based on 1 night. Some guys bring it some guys don't. That is why I say they AREN'T MACHINES. It isn't a slot machine, it isn't how many times it hits out of 10 or 100.


I know no one does that, the point is how its perceived (since this is largely an argument about semantics). But, guess what happens when people think a guy got a lucky shot in? Usually a rematch happens. Right now GSP and Serra are 1-1, how come no one is clamouring for a rubber match?? Because they know Serra could never reduplicate that performance.




jonnyg4508 said:


> Take it for what it is. It was Serra training to take GSP's head off. It was GSP thinking Serra was no match. It was the vet landing a punch and knocking GSP down. It was what he intended to do. Just because a less striker loses. Or lesser fighter loses. Doesn't mean it was luck. Serra was the better fighter that night. He found GSP's chin and GSP let him do so. Serra won the fight like he trained for months to accomplish.


I want to separate this argument a little from the Serra fight, because I agree with you, that Serra might have come in with a decent gameplan (body shots setting up a headshot). But he wasn't unlucky simply because he intended a punch, he deserved to win BECAUSE he trained, BECAUSE he had a great a gameplan, not simply because he though to do something at the final moment. The problem is youre taking the final cause without the causes of everything before it. But really thats a very superficial view of reality because many times the final cause is there without the all the work behind it (a lucky punch). Nearly all knockouts require intention, but not all intended knockouts are free from luck.

Don't worry, I know we wont get anywhere with this.


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

Id love to see this superfight, but I feel like GSP will be massively undersized.










And I just saw a recent interview where Soares said Anderson walks around at 225lbs today.. I cringe when I think about how this will look when he walks into the cage and challenges a guy who at that moment will be 50lbs smaller.

If this does happen I just hope Bones enters the cage after the GSP v Silva fight.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

How is he that much bigger in that picture? We all knew he was taller by a decent margin. No one had any delusion that Silva and GSP were the same height. What else? GSP's body looks just as big. His reach isn't too much shorter. 

Do you have a link to that interview? I bet GSP would walk around at 205 if he let himself get as pudgy as Anderson does. 

You cringe at the thought because you obviously don't like Anderson as seen with your default picture. You cringe because you know he would KTFO of GSP before GSP (the guy who takes down Rashad a 205er in practice) can hold him down.

You want Jones to call him out, but Jones doesn't want that fight. Anderson wants GSP. So there is a difference there.

Anderson...The Giant...said he would go to 178 or 180lbs. He wouldn't be anywhere near 220 on fight night. Would Jones go to 199? Could he?


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> How is he that much bigger in that picture? We all knew he was taller by a decent margin. No one had any delusion that Silva and GSP were the same height. What else? GSP's body looks just as big. His reach isn't too much shorter.
> 
> Do you have a link to that interview? I bet GSP would walk around at 205 if he let himself get as pudgy as Anderson does.
> 
> ...


Obviously a Silva fanboy judging from your reply.
You are probably one of those who thinks JBJ is way to big for Anderson, but somehow thinks he is just a couple inches taller than GSP. 

Underground Iphone App, interview with Soares.

And yeah, Id much rather see JBJ fight Anderson just to shut guys like you up. 

Actually I cringe at the though of anyone who is a weightclass above somebody calling out someone In a weightclass below, especially a week after he claimed he wanted 1.5 billion to fight the Champ in the weightclass above.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Vale_Tudo said:


> Obviously a Silva fanboy judging from your reply.
> You are probably one of those who thinks JBJ is way to big for Anderson, but somehow thinks he is just a couple inches taller than GSP.
> 
> Underground Iphone App, interview with Soares.
> ...


 
Unlike nancy boy GSP fans or non-Anderson fans, I welcome a Jones/Anderson fight. I would LOVE to see that...are you kidding me? Unlike others I'm not afraid to see my favorite fighters lose.

I just laugh at people that want the Jones/Anderson fight. But think GSP/Anderson is unfair. Anderson isn't intending on laying on GSP. He is intending to punch him in the face. Anderson is the only one of the 3 that can and will make weight under his weight class. 

You are the biggest sucker in the world if you thought Anderson was serious. But then again your name is Vale Tudo with a Chael highlight as a picture. So you are obviously a sucker anyway.:confused03:

He calls out GSP because he is supposedly the 2nd best P4P fighter. Some have him 1. He supposedly used to take Rashad a great LHW wrestler down in practice. So what is the problem here? Scared perhaps?


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

GSP fought BJ Penn twice at 170...didn't meet him anywhere.

He fought Sherk who is a midget even at 155. He fought him at 170...didn't meet anywhere.

He lost to Matt Serra. A Midget 155er. He fought him at 170. He didn't meet him anywhere. 

Those are some of his biggest wins. All midgets. All smaller men. 

Did you cringe then too? Whats the problem? Scared?


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Vale_Tudo said:


> Id love to see this superfight, but I feel like GSP will be massively undersized.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is like saying BJ walks around at 190.


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> GSP fought BJ Penn twice at 170...didn't meet him anywhere.
> 
> He fought Sherk who is a midget even at 155. He fought him at 170...didn't meet anywhere.
> 
> ...


Ok, this is just turned into how my 3 year old argues with me. Im done with you.

Have this so called "GOAT" stop ducking number one contender in his own weightclass, or taking on cans that he can pick and chose and we wouldnt even have this thread.

But again, for anybody else who might read this. Im actually intrigued by this superfight, I just wanted to point out an obvious size difference and how calling out guys in weightclasses below you is pretty douchy and not very GOAT like if you step into the cage at 225lbs and only want to face the bigger 205lb'er if you can have 1.5 billion.


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## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

Vale_Tudo said:


> Id love to see this superfight, but I feel like GSP will be massively undersized.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How will he be 50lbs?? Really. If silva drops to say 178 then fight night he will be no bigger than 190. Gsp walks around at around 190, come fight night he will fight around 180.


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## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

Vale_Tudo said:


> Ok, this is just turned into how my 3 year old argues with me. Im done with you.
> 
> Have this so called "GOAT" stop ducking number one contender in his own weightclass, or taking on cans that he can pick and chose and we wouldnt even have this thread.
> 
> But again, for anybody else who might read this. Im actually intrigued by this superfight, I just wanted to point out an obvious size difference and how calling out guys in weightclasses below you is pretty douchy and not very GOAT like if you step into the cage at 225lbs and only want to face the bigger 205lb'er if you can have 1.5 billion.


It was clearly a joke silva made about the 1.5 billion. And what number 1 contender is he ducking??? There isn't a so called number one contender yet.


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

Ludinator said:


> How will he be 50lbs?? Really. If silva drops to say 178 then fight night he will be no bigger than 190. Gsp walks around at around 190, come fight night he will fight around 180.


I was talking about next week, when he's going to "Call him out". This interview I saw with Soares said Anderson was 225lbs. You have admit that will look pretty stupid. A heavyweight in there calling out a cut WW.

If these two decide to fight at 177.5, go for it. I'll watch. But after he beats GSP he cant continue saying he wants 1.5 billion to face a bigger guy if he wants to continue being a GOAT


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Ludinator said:


> How will he be 50lbs?? Really. If silva drops to say 178 then fight night he will be no bigger than 190. Gsp walks around at around 190, come fight night he will fight around 180.


You are most likely wrong.

Some fighters put up to 45 pounds on before fight time (Tito Ortiz)

So if Anderson Silva went down well below his normal weight he could probably put on 20 pounds or so and be around 198 come fight time.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

If they met at 180lbs I would predict Silva would be around 200-205 on fight night and GSP would be 190-195. I would assume GSP would do some extra weight lifting in camp and add a couple lbs of muscle. I think they would be 10-12 lbs difference on fight.


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> You are most likely wrong.
> 
> *Some fighters put up to 45 pounds on before fight time (Tito Ortiz)*
> 
> So if Anderson Silva went down well below his normal weight he could probably put on 20 pounds or so and be around 198 come fight time.


FYI, that video he sent was a joke, he was holding a weight in one of his hands.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

I bet you that if Silva fought GSP at 178(this is the number that keeps popping up and makes sense) then the actual weight difference fight night would be negligible and that both fighters would come in weighing 190-195 fight night.

The weight difference doesn't even matter though, even if Silva has 10 lbs on him fight night it won't change the outcome of this fight. Silva doesn't win fights because of his size, wrestling etc and 10 lbs of water isn't going to be the difference in him being able to stuff GSP's takedowns.

The heigh factor may be an issue but GSP first has to fight Condit who is the same height as Silva. Honestly the taller height if anything will make it easier for GSP to take Silva down. On the ground Silva's lanky legs will make things tough but he will also be against one of the very best fighters for passing guard.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

This fight is a catch 22 for Anderson.

If he KO's GSP with a knee as he shoots 1 minute into the fight, a portion of people will say Anderson was bigger and it somehow made a difference in the outcome.

I think the fight is fair as hell and the matchup is awesome. People say GSP is the best wrestler in all of MMA, so what shoulld 15-20lbs even matter. His opponents biggest weakness is wrestling. 

We get to see Anderson vs. a wrestler who is well-rounded. 

Anderson is in his late 30s and has to cut extra weight, which may drain him a bit. Those factors by themselves more than makes up for the disparity in size, in my opinion.


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## coopiero (Jan 8, 2011)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I have to agree with him though. Every finish is more impressive than any decision in my opinion even if the guy who wins gets beaten on for 24 minutes. If you don't finish, you failed the objective of the fight. It's like sex without orgasms. Still pretty damn fun but you're not really satisfied afterwards.


What a load of bollocks, so you find Antonio silvas recent ko of a 1legged travis Browne more impressive than GSP destroying koschecks face


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> You are most likely wrong.
> 
> *Some fighters put up to 45 pounds on before fight time (Tito Ortiz)*
> 
> So if Anderson Silva went down well below his normal weight he could probably put on 20 pounds or so and be around 198 come fight time.


And i'm Santa and will give you a Tito dummy by Christmas.


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## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

*Silva says he's not calling Gsp out.*



> "I'm on vacation at the fight," Silva said. "I think we just come back at the end of next year. [I've got] my personal projects underway. Tomorrow I'm going to Los Angeles to check on the progress of my gym, we're riding there. I think it's time for me to [keep] my life in order, because this thing of always being worried and having work, I just leave my personal life aside. I have my projects, my personal plans and will keep them moving forward."
> 
> "I'm going to Los Angeles and then go to Canada for the fight of Saint Pierre, and then I'm already there to shoot a movie, a feature film that I'll participate and Lyoto. It's an action movie. [It's] not my character to up and challenge anyone. I think it will not happen. I think not, I'm sure (laughs)."


Source Mma Torch.

Silva better not be taking time off till next year, I cnt be bothered with the middleweight devision at a stand still.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Mirage445 said:


> FYI, that video he sent was a joke, he was holding a weight in one of his hands.


Was it really??

I didnt see a video. He posted a picture of it on Twitter.

Though im sure you are right since i always did find it crazy how much weight that is to put on over night. Do you have the link where i can see this weight in his hand??




AmdM said:


> And i'm Santa and will give you a Tito dummy by Christmas.


What?


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