# BloodyElbow: "The Fedor Era is finished. He'll never face the best again"



## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

Sad to hear this but it's true. 

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/4/22/1437163/the-fedor-era-is-finished-fedor

*The Fedor Era Is Finished: Fedor Emelianenko's Ridiculous Demands Mean He'll Never Fight the Best Again *

We've already posted on yesterday's Loretta Hunt piece on the current state of affairs between M-1 Global, ie Fedor Emelianenko and his manager Vadim Finkelchstein, but I wanted to elaborate a bit on the implications. *Vadim and company are essentially holding Strikeforce hostage.* Strikeforce has tweeted their response to Hunt's article, but I respect her track record.

If Scott Coker and company want to see Fedor, the world's #1 heavyweight, per the USAT/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings, fighting on CBS or Showtime, they will need to clear the card to make way for M-1's bevy of other world class fighters. When M-1 had Gegard Mousasi on their roster, matters were a little different, but he has since parted ways. The M-1 roster is loaded with talent like Kiril "Baby Fedor" Sidelnikov, last seen by American fans getting a long and painful lesson in how not to slip a jab from Paul Buentello at Affliction: Reckoning. 

As much as I love Russian fighters, and historically they've played a big role in MMA both in the U.S. and Japan. There is no one currently on the M-1 roster other than Fedor who is remotely worthy of getting airtime on CBS.

*Sadly, it appears that Strikeforce is hanging onto the CBS deal by its fingertips*. Here's Dave Meltzer from the Wrestling Observer (subscription required):

For Strikeforce, the goal to be at least a successful secondary Pepsi brand going against Coke is largely dependent on maintaining its link to CBS. They may be able to survive with Showtime footing a lot of the bills, without CBS, but the reach of Showtime is simply too small to offer major competition. The eventual goal of Strikeforce is to be able to build stars and matches to where they can viably run a few PPV events per year. Even with CBS, that was going to be difficult. Without CBS, and that becomes a real longshot.
...

For Strikeforce, the big question is whether CBS will continue to air the programming, and is Strikeforce a viable prime time entity on the network. What we've learned from the past is that CBS had been successful three out of four shows in selling ads to advertisers who target Males 18-34. The ratings themselves are lower than regular programming on the network, but the ability to target market to a specific demo is considered the strength of MMA. The fact is, Strikeforce has drawn a significantly older audience, likely due to the make-up of CBS as an older skewing network, than UFC has done on Spike. They can hit the targets if they have a major drawing card. In the past, Fedor Emelianenko, Kimbo Slice and Gina Carano have fit that bill. The question was whether Dan Henderson would be added to that list, and on a show built around him, he proved not to be.

In the end, CBS did a 1.76 rating and 2.86 million viewers, doing only a 1.26 in Males 18-34 (falling from a 2.3 the prior show) and a 1.74 in Males 35-49 (down from 2.7 last show). Before the show, they said they hoped because Henderson had more TV exposure in the U.S. than Emelianenko, that they could equal the 11/7 numbers, which was a 2.45 rating and 4.04 million viewers. However, privately they did not believe that was the case, and were hopeful of beating 3 million viewers. But it was a demo play and they came up a little short. ...

CBS officials will be meeting with Strikeforce later this week. Even though the rating is going to be the primary determining factor, the rating was at best lower borderline and the demo number disappointing. The show quality is just what it is. The matches weren't good. That's probably not that significant, although perhaps if they had a hot match or two, the rating would have been very slightly higher. The show went 45 minutes long, delaying the local newscasts. Given that the lead-in was a low audience in a demo that probably doesn't translate well to the local newscast, the affiliates probably weren't thrilled. But it was well known when the show was booked that they could go long. If the ratings were strong, going long wasn't going to be a major issue. If the ratings were strong, the brawl at the end of the show wasn't going to be an issue. Bad fights, weak ratings, going long and the brawl all combined, and people very close to the situation at press time recognized CBS may throw in the towel. There was negative publicity on the bad rating, and on the brawl. There were media outlets, most notably the New York Post which insinuated it was completely staged (it wasn't) and there absolutely was a general public feeling of that same thing. CBS may be thinking that between this and Kimbo-gate, the so-so ratings and the inherent controversial nature of the programming that no doubt many station executives were against to begin with, that it's simply not worth the hassle.

I will admit that Strikeforce and CBS would have been better off airing Fedor vs Fabricio Werdum supported by virtually any warm body off the M-1 bench vs Dan Henderson than the card they aired, from a purely cynical ratings perspective.

As Meltzer shows above, Fedor proved last year against Brett Rogers that he is a serious draw with U.S. fans. He drew much stronger numbers than Dan Henderson achieved last Saturday and more importantly the numbers went up dramatically when Fedor was on screen.

The tragedy of M-1's hold out was that Fedor was primed for a break out performance on the heels of his dramatic KO win over Brett Rogers. Now I doubt that he'll have a second bite at the U.S. network television apple. *Whatever M-1 Global is doing, they are NOT looking out for what's best for Fedor's career. Had he posted even better numbers and more media attention for his second CBS fight, he'd have been a star in the biggest sports market in the world. Now he'll be a might have been. *

*As a hardcore fan, I loved the show, but it was clearly a business disaster that might have cost Strikeforce the CBS relationship. With just Showtime, frankly they can't afford Fedor.* But since M-1 is under contract with Strikeforce, expect it to take quite a bit of untangling to work out.* I don't expect to see Fedor fight in the U.S. in 2010.*

If I'm right, that leaves a New Year's Eve fight against Josh Barnett or Alistair Overeem in Japan the best possibility for fans to see the greatest martial artist in the sport's young history fight this year.

Dana White has been very open about his desire to see Fedor in the Octagon, but that will require untangling the Gordian knot of demands made by Vadim and company. 

*The reality is this, Fedor is 33 years old in a sport that is infamously hard on aging athletes. His biggest rivals from the PRIDE era -- Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira -- have seen mixed success at best against the current crop of UFC heavyweights.*

Fedor has had much better luck recently, notching spectacular wins over two former UFC champs in Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski as well as a KO finish of Strikeforce's top contender Brett Rogers. But the string of unlikely business deals that brought those fights to fruition appears to have run out.

*Sad as it is to say, I'm putting Fedor in the history books and giving up on my hopes for one final run of glory and heroics.*


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## Kado (Apr 18, 2010)

Fedor will go down as one of the best. I just wish we could see those dream match-ups everyone wants, but they are just that. Dreams.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Wow a post from Coosh not taking about how great Brock is and how he would beat Fedor. 

So instead we get this.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Fedor hasn't fought the best since Pride folded, he ruled over a notoriously weak division for a lot of years and now that it's respectable he doesn't appear to have any interest in proving he's still the best...........


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> Fedor hasn't fought the best since Pride folded, he ruled over a notoriously weak division for a lot of years and now that it's respectable he doesn't appear to have any interest in proving he's still the best...........


I get what you are saying and agree but the HW division isnt exactly all that respectable compared to what Pride was doing. 

Pride featured Fedor Big Nog and Cro-Cop all in their primes. And arguably the 3 best HW of all time. The UFC doesnt have anything near as great as those fighters right now, but that will change.

The only thing so great about the HW division now is that this is the first great HW division in the UFC whereas before it was a bunch of weak fighters. Dont forget Tim Sylvia is still the longest reining HW champ in UFC history.


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## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

JimmyJames said:


> Wow a post from Coosh not taking about how great Brock is and how he would beat Fedor.
> 
> So instead we get this.


lol you're acting like I wrote the article.

Which part of it do you disagree with btw?


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## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

JimmyJames said:


> I get what you are saying and agree but the HW division isnt exactly all that respectable compared to what Pride was doing.
> 
> Pride featured Fedor Big Nog and Cro-Cop all in their primes. And arguably the 3 best HW of all time. The UFC doesnt have anything near as great as those fighters right now, but that will change.
> 
> The only thing so great about the HW division now is that this is the first great HW division in the UFC whereas before it was a bunch of weak fighters. Dont forget Tim Sylvia is still the longest reining HW champ in UFC history.


I think you're being a little overzealous with your comments.

Crocop got dispatched of easily in the UFC only 6 months after his crowning career achievement in winning the Pride GP.

Nog was only 30 when he entered the UFC and has not looked very good at all since. He's only a year older than Brock. Perhaps he's not quite what he was or perhaps the division has evolved past him. Maybe even a little bit of both.

But to assume a prime Nog (pretty much a pure BJJ guy) would be a world beater in today's UFC HW division is absolutely baseless.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Coosh said:


> lol you're acting like I wrote the article.
> 
> Which part of it do you disagree with btw?


I just know your deal and how much you hate on Fedor. 

I dont really disagree with any of it. 

Fedor made the mistake of signing with M-1, then he made another bad decision to own 10% of the company that controls his career. Bad business decisions are the down fall of his career. Its really kinda sad.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

*Fedor

that's how i'll always remember him.


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## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

JimmyJames said:


> I just know your deal and how much you hate on Fedor.
> 
> I dont really disagree with any of it.
> 
> Fedor made the mistake of signing with M-1, then he made another bad decision to own 10% of the company that controls his career. Bad business decisions are the down fall of his career. Its really kinda sad.


I rarely ever post about Fedor. You seem paranoid. 


Fedor seems happy with M1 and says he's in control of everything going on with them. There's no evidence to suggest otherwise.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Coosh said:


> I think you're being a little overzealous with your comments.
> 
> Crocop got dispatched of easily in the UFC only 6 months after his crowning career achievement in winning the Pride GP.
> 
> ...


I was never comparing the two against each other. 

Pride was what it was and had the best HW when it was around.


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## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

JimmyJames said:


> I was never comparing the two against each other.
> 
> Pride was what it was and had the best HW when it was around.


Royce Gracie was the best mixed martial artist at one point too. The sport is evolving though.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

I am no Fedor hater but i really do hate this it's all M1's fault thing! If Fedor had the desire he could buy his way out of any deal and make it so he fought the best in the world, its not 100% his fault but he is in control of what he does, and currently what he does is duck the best opposition in the world!


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

edlavis88 said:


> I am no Fedor hater but i really do hate this it's all M1's fault thing! If Fedor had the desire he could buy his way out of any deal and make it so he fought the best in the world, its not 100% his fault but he is in control of what he does, and currently what he does is duck the best opposition in the world!


See thats just where M-1 is the problem. 

M-1 as a company without Fedor would most likely go out of business. Fedor could get out of his contract and leave M-1. But with Fedor owning 10% of M-1 if he leaves his losses because M-1 would likely go out of business. 

M-1 has put Fedor in a no win situation. Besides the fact that Fedor will remain loyal to M-1 because he prides loyalty over anything else.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

The article has one thing right, Fedor is in the history books and always will be. He could retire right now and go down as the greatest HW ever, if not the greatest mixed martial artist ever.

Many, including myself, couldn't care less if he goes to the UFC or anywhere else, he's already fought his fights, he has more wins and a better win streak than most fighters have total wins/losses combined.

He retires, doesn't retire, fights Brock, fights Werdum, doesn't matter, he's already proven himself more times than any other fighter out there, and it's time he starts looking out for his future, which M1 will help him with. He's not looking to make a name now, and to him, he doesn't even care about his ranking, that's already done, he's at a point where he wants to make sure his future has $ in it, which I can respect.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

JimmyJames said:


> I get what you are saying and agree but the HW division isnt exactly all that respectable compared to what Pride was doing.
> 
> Pride featured Fedor Big Nog and Cro-Cop all in their primes. And arguably the 3 best HW of all time. The UFC doesnt have anything near as great as those fighters right now, but that will change.
> 
> The only thing so great about the HW division now is that this is the first great HW division in the UFC whereas before it was a bunch of weak fighters. Dont forget Tim Sylvia is still the longest reining HW champ in UFC history.


Tim didn't exactly make that run against top competition though.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Coosh said:


> I think you're being a little overzealous with your comments.
> 
> Crocop got dispatched of easily in the UFC only 6 months after his crowning career achievement in winning the Pride GP.
> 
> ...




Nog being only one year means nothing atall, he has had much more fights, taken much harder shots and been hurt more times. He has been fighting the best for years and years while Brock has only fought 5 times and hasnt taken hardly any damage.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> Tim didn't exactly make that run against top competition though.


Correct. I think it was 2 wins vs Arlovski and 1 against Monson before Couture destroyed him and it was all down hill for Tim from there on.......


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## HaVoK (Dec 31, 2006)

Coosh said:


> I think you're being a little overzealous with your comments.
> 
> Crocop got dispatched of easily in the UFC only 6 months after his crowning career achievement in winning the Pride GP.
> 
> ...


Could not have put it any better then that.


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

Whatever happened to Aleks?


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Mirage445 said:


> Whatever happened to Aleks?


He is currently fighting in the ProFC org. in Russia. They say (rumor?) he can't fight in the US because of medical requirements on work permits.


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

Life B Ez said:


> Fedor hasn't fought the best since Pride folded, he ruled over a notoriously weak division for a lot of years and now that it's respectable he doesn't appear to have any interest in proving he's still the best...........


where was sylvia ranked at the time? where was Arlowski ranked at the time...even rogers was top ten whats your point?


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## Curly (Aug 20, 2007)

The HW division has evolved in leaps and bounds since Fedor was at the top. Though I'm a Fedor nut-hugger I am the first to say that in the current UFC HW division he would not last long. Fedor will go down in my books as a great fighter who tried to hold on to his previous glory at the end of his career by avoiding fights.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

lately everytime I hear Fedors name, I cant help but laugh..:laugh:


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

vaj3000 said:


> where was sylvia ranked at the time? where was Arlowski ranked at the time...even rogers was top ten whats your point?


All three of them at once isn't equal to fighting Lesnar, Cain or possibly Carwin........I really don't even care, Fedor was the best of the 2nd generation of MMA easily. He was dominate for a long time, but the sport evolves and you can't keep up. So it's not about wanting Fedor to get beat, I just want to see him fight. He WAS the greatest, he's not anymore, the sport has come a long way. 

I'm so sick of people talking about where Tim and Alovski were ranked when Fedor beat them, neither was ever that good, the only reason they were ranked that high is because HW was very weak. Look at the list of wins Tim has, not very impressive, as a matter of fact his most impressive are probably the ones over Arlovski.....

It's like talking about boxing, Rocky Marciano would probably get crushed in today's boxing world, and he would have gotten crushed if he fought during the 60's and 70's with Ali, Frazier and Foreman. It's just a matter of the sport changing, that doesn't mean Rocky isn't still one of the greatest, it just means the sport has evolved.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

ARE YOU FUCKIN SERIOUS!.

"If they would have had a good match or 2 the ratings would have been better." 

Yeah Ok.. There was plenty of good bouts.. It could have been the devil vs jesus in a death match and it would have pulled the same ratings with the half ass promotions CBS televised. You get what you put into it its that ******* simple.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

vilify said:


> lately everytime I hear Fedors name, I cant help but laugh..:laugh:


lol^^

I mean i can't believe, how many people still care about Fedor.. he is long irrelevant for me!


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

Honestly, it's saddening that it's so hard to get Fedor to fight. I truly believe he is the best, and he would take anyone. His performance against Rogers was nothing short of astounding. The truth is he's not ducking fights, he feels he is worth a lot of money, and it's true. Maybe offer Fedor a bunch of money to do one super fight, have him fight the UFC champ or someone just as good and just see wtf happens. If loses, we can forget about him, if he wins I guess he's worth all that money lol In the end I think it'd be better to do one super fight then go through all the BS negotiations, cuz the only thing keeping Fedor in the game is that he hasn't lost and everyone wants to see him get whomped.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Sad but kind of what I figured. Would love to see Fedor come to the UFC and lose a fight or two though, he is a great figther but the new breed is too big, fast and talented for him.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

420atalon said:


> Sad but kind of what I figured. Would love to see Fedor come to the UFC and lose a fight or two though, he is a great figther but the new breed is too big, fast and talented for him.


What if Fedor defeat's Fabricio Werdum and then Overeem for the Title.Joins UFC defeats Brock, will the new breed be as fast and talented as you think? What if Brock is just some over hyped creation of Dana White?


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

Your era is finished, the man is an undefeated god. You go tell him to his face he is finished you l;il punk a-- bi---


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Bknmax said:


> What if Fedor defeat's Fabricio Werdum and then Overeem for the Title.Joins UFC defeats Brock, will the new breed be as fast and talented as you think? What if Brock is just some over hyped creation of Dana White?


Werdum and Overeem are meh.

If Fedor joins the UFC and defeats Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez, Dos Santos then I will eat my words. 

I don't think he will join the UFC though and even if he did he would struggle to stay undefeated.


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## Shoegazer (Jun 23, 2007)

Unless he comes to the UFC to fight the heavyweights there like Lesnar and Carwin, etc., Fedor will be nothing more than an obscure cult curiousity to new MMA fans in 5 years, period. No one will care about the record, the undefeated streak, and the reasons why he never fought in the UFC. 


Five years. Guaranteed.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

Shoegazer said:


> Unless he comes to the UFC to fight the heavyweights there like Lesnar and Carwin, etc., Fedor will be nothing more than an obscure cult curiousity to new MMA fans in 5 years, period. No one will care about the record, the undefeated streak, and the reasons why he never fought in the UFC.
> 
> 
> Five years. Guaranteed.


What makes you think Brock will last 5 years? Fedor will still have his record and will probably be the SF champ, while Brock gets dominated by Carwin.And then what your gonna say Carwin is better then Fedor?


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## Shoegazer (Jun 23, 2007)

Bknmax said:


> What makes you think Brock will last 5 years? Fedor will still have his record and will probably be the SF champ, while Brock gets dominated by Carwin.And then what your gonna say Carwin is better then Fedor?


I don't really care about Brock or Carwin, I'm just saying what will happen to Fedor's legacy in five years if he does not push the envelope.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Shoegazer said:


> I don't really care about Brock or Carwin, I'm just saying what will happen to Fedor's legacy in five years if he does not push the envelope.


Fedor's legacy is already set in stone. That's like saying "If Wanderlei or Liddell doesn't start getting some serious wins, where is their legacy going to go?. 

Fedor is a legend, he's been there, done that, countless times over the course of a decade. Fedor is at a point in his career where he can start worrying about his future, not his present, which is why he's staying with M-1 so much, he's looking out for his future, not his present, cause his legacy/record is already stoned in the history books.


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## Shoegazer (Jun 23, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> Fedor's legacy is already set in stone.


Sure is sounding that way, but not everyone shares your perspective on that legacy.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

do u still talk about boxers from the very early days of boxing as the best ever??

no.

Fedor wont be talked about either. just a great pioneer and legend. but not the best ever.

MMA will get way bigger then it is now. Fedor will be a very small footnote. Like Jim Corbett in boxing (i know most of you are like WHO??). Exactly my point.

Pioneers are NEVER the greatest ever. Fedor wont be either. this sport is far too young and hasnt seen 1/100th of the talent it will have even in 10 years.

also my old "HW division was by far the weaknest so how could the greatest ever come from it" still holds true.

that HW division wasnt even HW for the most part. Roided up LHW division is what it shoulda been called.

Fedor is a natural LHW who's biggest wins are over natural LHWs (i guess ill call Nog a true HW for the sake of arguement, im unsure if he could cut to LHW, we all know Randleman, Coleman and Cro Cop could all make that cut easily).

Ppl always laud him for beating guys so much bigger then him but the only skilled guys he faced were true LHWs for the most part.

Sidenote - Why is Fedors most signifigant win over Cro Cop and after CC won the GP and got embarrassed by Gonzaga, that win quickly means nothing for Gonzaga??

I think CC being Fedors biggest win, says it all about the strength of that division. he wasnt washed up when he came to the UFC, he was just overrated.


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## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

As someone else stated, Fedor is a great 2nd generation MMA fighter. Considering he's still young enough to cement his legacy by fighting the superior HW's of today, his avoidance of fighting them does not help his legacy. He's not just avoiding fighting UFC heavyweights, he's avoiding a fight with Overeem.

I'm done considering Fedor an elite HW if he refuses to fight the best.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

Fedor is the Pride and WAMMA World Heavyweight Champion and has a chance to become the SF and UFC champion.No one will ever have a chance to do that.


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## x_Rampage_x (Sep 5, 2009)

Fedor is a little p*ssy for not joining the UFC


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## punchbag (Mar 1, 2010)

hkado said:


> Fedor will go down as one of the best. I just wish we could see those dream match-ups everyone wants, but they are just that. Dreams.


I think that Fedor vs Aleks at HW is a good fight when/if it happens. 
Obviously i'd like to see Fedor fighting a Velasquez/Couture/Lesnar etc but due to his crappy management feel that we may never know his true abilities as a fighter, as he may not get to fight the current crop of Hw's/ may get too old and if he's beaten everyone will say he's nowhere as good as people say he is by the time M1 get around to him fighting again.


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

JimmyJames said:


> I get what you are saying and agree but the HW division isnt exactly all that respectable compared to what Pride was doing.
> 
> Pride featured Fedor Big Nog and Cro-Cop all in their primes. And arguably the 3 best HW of all time. The UFC doesnt have anything near as great as those fighters right now, but that will change


I'm going to assume this is a joke. You're telling me that those guys four years ago would have beaten Brock, Frank, or Cain... give me a break. Face it, and this goes for everyone who hasn't accepted it yet, Pride was a ton of flash with a ton of great fighters... but it has been proven time and time again they were in no was superior to what the UFC was doing then, and certainly not to what they are doing now.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

BrianRClover said:


> I'm going to assume this is a joke. You're telling me that those guys four years ago would have beaten Brock, Frank, or Cain... give me a break. Face it, and this goes for everyone who hasn't accepted it yet, Pride was a ton of flash with a ton of great fighters... but it has been proven time and time again they were in no was superior to what the UFC was doing then, and certainly not to what they are doing now.


Um what? Who said Brock was good Dana? Getting a Title by beating a 50 yr old man is not good in my opinion.Unlike Fedor who got the Pride Belt by beating Cro Cop at his Prime.The greatest HW Champion in the world doesn't fight for UFC.Are you saying Cro Cop about 2 or 3 years ago would not destroy Mir? are you joking?


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

Bknmax said:


> Um what? Who said Brock was good Dana? Getting a Title by beating a 50 yr old man is not good in my opinion.Unlike Fedor who got the Pride Belt by beating Cro Cop at his Prime.The greatest HW Champion in the world doesn't fight for UFC.Are you saying Cro Cop about 2 or 3 years ago would not destroy Mir? are you joking?


Not even a little bit. You might as well accept the fact that just maybe, and open your mind a little bit, just MAYBE, those pride days didn't showcase fighters that were so incredibly above everyone else. You will never convince me that the best Cro Cop in the world could stop Lesnars take down, and you will certainly not convince me that that Cro Cop would get up and do anything substantial afterwords. And I really hope Mir/Nog 2 happens... then you will see the exact same result, just like you would have three years ago. The HW division has changed, and there is no argument that can be made against that. Even if Fedor, Cro Cop, and Nog could revert back to their so called "primes", the only thing that would keep them all being top three would be another division that maxes out at 135... cause these new monsters, are going to own all three of them all day long, and I'm including the immortal Fedor in that statement.

The sad part is, we will never know who the current number one HW in the world is, and there is no one to blame for that but Fedor. All though, I would bet my life savings on Brock if that fight were to happen.

Oh, and yes I am saying that Cro Cop, two year, three years, or however much time it takes to excuse him would not destroy Mir.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

BrianRClover said:


> Not even a little bit. You might as well accept the fact that just maybe, and open your mind a little bit, just MAYBE, those pride days didn't showcase fighters that were so incredibly above everyone else. You will never convince me that the best Cro Cop in the world could stop Lesnars take down, and you will certainly not convince me that that Cro Cop would get up and do anything substantial afterwords. And I really hope Mir/Nog 2 happens... then you will see the exact same result, just like you would have three years ago. The HW division has changed, and there is no argument that can be made against that. Even if Fedor, Cro Cop, and Nog could revert back to their so called "primes", the only thing that would keep them all being top three would be another division that maxes out at 135... cause these new monsters, are going to own all three of them all day long, and I'm including the immortal Fedor in that statement.
> 
> The sad part is, we will never know who the current number one HW in the world is, and there is no one to blame for that but Fedor. All though, I would bet my life savings on Brock if that fight were to happen.
> 
> Oh, and yes I am saying that Cro Cop, two year, three years, or however much time it takes to excuse him would not destroy Mir.



You would lose all your life savings betting on Brock,Fedor is not Nog or Cro Cop he has his own originality about him just like Jon Jones,Silva,Machida.Fedor is not Couture or Mir he has never been defeated while Brock has.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

ppl just cant accept that Nog and Cro Cop just arent that great.

EDIT not that great by TODAYS standards. In 10 years guys today will be in the same spot, definately.

Prime they get smashed all day by Cain, JDS, Brock, Carwin, Mir and im pretty sure a myriad of other fighters could give them a good fight, even tho if i say the names it will be a bitter pill for you all to swallow.

Just remember, Gonzaga kicked the head off a PRIME CRO COP. I know the excuses flow like Niagra falls but he was coming off a GP win and nothing wrong with him physically or mentally (yet)


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

BrianRClover said:


> I'm going to assume this is a joke. You're telling me that those guys four years ago would have beaten Brock, Frank, or Cain... give me a break. Face it, and this goes for everyone who hasn't accepted it yet, Pride was a ton of flash with a ton of great fighters... but it has been proven time and time again they were in no was superior to what the UFC was doing then, and certainly not to what they are doing now.


Read the thread. I was never comparing the 2 against each other.


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## gwabblesore (May 2, 2007)

alizio said:


> ppl just cant accept that Nog and Cro Cop just arent that great.
> 
> EDIT not that great by TODAYS standards. In 10 years guys today will be in the same spot, definately.
> 
> ...


:thumbsup:

I really dont even know what the **** the Pride nuthuggers are clinging on to anymore. This whole _prime_ thing is just a load of bullshit, especially when you're talking about guys like Cro Cop and Nog who aren't even old and were fresh off their "primes" when they came to the UFC and got owned.

The Pride HW division was way overrated, and this has been proven repeatedly.

I think some people are still bitter about the fact that their predictions of Pride's guys coming over and ruling the UFC were completely squashed.

Before it all happened it was _very_ hip on message boards and youtube videos and stuff to say that Pride's fighters were infinitely better than the UFC's fighters; it didn't pan out that way, the underdog won, but people are still having trouble accepting it.

Fedor could get some wins in the UFC but if he fought all of the top 5 I'd see him going 2-3 or 3-2. I don't think he'd hold the belt for more than a fight at most.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

gwabblesore said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> I really dont even know what the **** the Pride nuthuggers are clinging on to anymore. This whole _prime_ thing is just a load of bullshit, especially when you're talking about guys like Cro Cop and Nog who aren't even old and were fresh off their "primes" when they came to the UFC and got owned.
> 
> ...


First of all the name of this thread is The Fedor Era is Finished,not Cro cops or Nogs.JDS who's in Nogs camp will get dominated by Fedor just like Nog did.Cain is the only real threat to Fedor with good stand up and Wrestling.Brock doesn't deserve to fight Fedor, especially after he gets knocked out by Carwin.


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## gwabblesore (May 2, 2007)

Bknmax said:


> First of all the name of this thread is The Fedor Era is Finished,not Cro cops or Nogs.JDS who's in Nogs camp will get dominated by Fedor just like Nog did.Cain is the only real threat to Fedor with good stand up and Wrestling.Brock doesn't deserve to fight Fedor, especially after he gets knocked out by Carwin.


Thanks; searched all over the site and couldn't find the name of this thread :thumb02:

Nog and Cro Cop are relevant, for obvious reasons.

Fedor never seems to lose, and I can't take that away from him. But his best wins are not that good when you pit them against the top of the UFC HW division today. Fedor's best opponents would be or have already been demolished by the UFC guys.

I'm hoping for Carwin to KO Brock too but that doesn't really change the fact that the top guys in the UFC's HW division are the top HWs in MMA and Fedor's fighting B fighters instead of them.

Fedor's Coleman fight makes me tend to believe that Brock and Cain could probably beat him.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

gwabblesore said:


> Thanks; searched all over the site and couldn't find the name of this thread :thumb02:
> 
> Nog and Cro Cop are relevant, for obvious reasons.
> 
> ...


Brock against Couture makes me think Fedor would destroy Brock,Mir submitted Brock in the first fight and dazed Brock with a flying knee in the second. You don't think Fedors right hook that KO'd Brett will daze him?


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## gwabblesore (May 2, 2007)

Bknmax said:


> Brock against Couture makes me think Fedor would destroy Brock,Mir submitted Brock in the first fight and dazed Brock with a flying knee in the second. You don't think Fedors right hook that KO'd Brett will daze him?


I'm among the biggest Mir fans on the board (not saying much, I rank #4 out of 6) and yeah I recognize that Brock doesn't have a Cabbaage/Hunt chin but he immediately responded to Mir's knee and it wound up not really mattering. I gotta figure Brock's chin is average at worst. He sat in Mir's guard too and you can try to tell me Fedor's BJJ is a thousand times better than Mir's all day long but I won't buy it; they both have elite BJJ but the guard in MMA is dead and once Brock gets on top of Fedor and starts pounding him it's Brock's fight.


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## bedcommando (Oct 16, 2006)

Fedor has fought much larger opponents than Brock (try Hong Man Choi @ 7'2" and 318-367lbs)... albeit without the wrestling background... but it makes you wonder because he basically made the weight/strength difference a moot point...

the one thing Fedor has really been good at is capitalizing on his opponents mistakes/weakness... in fact he's been EXTREMELY good at it... and lets not forget Brock is still not a complete fighter (he lost his UFC debut, and has since beaten Mir, Herring, and I'd say struggled with an aging Couture and shown some weak stand up) in fact some of the top UFC heavyweights we've yet to see a full resume of game from...

as of right now I don't rank Lesner very high based on the fact he hasn't fought enough or been tested (most of the top UFC HW division fighters need to beat on each other a bit to truly see what their capable of). Unfortunately we'll probably never see Fedor move on to anything besides cans at this point in his career... :thumbsdown:


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## Jimdon (Aug 27, 2008)

bedcommando said:


> Fedor has fought much larger opponents than Brock (try Hong Man Choi @ 7'2" and 318-367lbs)...


HMC is not a legitamate MMA fighter, and a joke of an opponent for Fedor.




> the one thing Fedor has really been good at is capitalizing on his opponents mistakes/weakness...


This I agree with completely, he always seems to be at the right place at the right time, it's scary how fast he can turn a fight.



> and lets not forget Brock is still not a complete fighter


No doubt Fedors biggest test in the UFC wouldn't come from Brock, personally, I think that if Fedor fought Velasquez he would get stomped, but as you say, we will never know.

Also, with Aldo's performance last night, I think Fedor has dropped out of the top 3 p4p, depending on where you put Silva, I think you have to go:

1. GSP
2. Aldo
3. Silva


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Aldo top 3 p4p? you cant be serious. he should be nowhere on the list sorry.


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## Jimdon (Aug 27, 2008)

vilify said:


> Aldo top 3 p4p? you cant be serious. he should be nowhere on the list sorry.


So you can name three people in other weightclasses that are more dominant champions? GSP, Silva and Aldo are the three most dominant fighters I can name in any weightclass, hence top 3 P4P


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Fedor's worth a shout surely? My Top 5 goes:

1. Anderson Silva
2. Georges St-Pierre
3. Fedor Emelianenko
4. Jose Aldo
5. Lyoto Machida (though Shogun's taking that spot if he wins the rematch)


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## Jimdon (Aug 27, 2008)

Danm2501 said:


> Fedor's worth a shout surely? My Top 5 goes:
> 
> 1. Anderson Silva
> 2. Georges St-Pierre
> ...


You can't honestly compare anything that Fedor has done in the last three years to the dominance that GSP, Silva and Aldo have displayed. Sorry guys, but 2006 was a long time ago and Fedor is quickly fading into irrelevance, and I think to ever get back, he's going to actually have to fight and beat someone in the top 5.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

dont worry, a medicore HW from the UFC will likely get cut. go on a nice winning streak vs bums. get a matchup with Fedor.

somehow be top 5 before the match.

book it


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Jimdon said:


> So you can name three people in other weightclasses that are more dominant champions? GSP, Silva and Aldo are the three most dominant fighters I can name in any weightclass, hence top 3 P4P


when you say dominant, you have to take into consideration who they're fighting. Although its not Aldo's fault, his weight class lacks top competition.(theres 2 other guys max)

Silva, GSP, Lesnar, Machida, Fedor, Rashad, BJ(even with his loss) are all ahead of him.

and if you insist on aldo being there, why isnt Gilbert Melendez or Jake shields top five? they've been just as dominant. or do the top 5 have to be ZUFFA before they're recognized?


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

kinda like besides Cro Cop and Nog, who the hell did Fedor beat that is so impressive??

the HW division was much worse then FW is now.

so bad u had Bobb Sapp and HMC fighting the best fighters out there. what a joke.


only diff is u had 2 organizations full of crappy HWs. and LHWs masquerading as HWs.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

alizio said:


> kinda like besides Cro Cop and Nog, who the hell did Fedor beat that is so impressive??
> 
> the HW division was much worse then FW is now.
> 
> so bad u had Bobb Sapp and HMC fighting the best fighters out there. what a joke.


Your right Fedor's only great win's were Cro Cop and Nog :sarcastic12:

Maybe the Japanese people just like seeing freak shows you ever thought of that? not how great they are


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

No matter what Fedor does, people will still want him to fight someone else. He's getting older and is becoming past his best. If he retired today, he'll still be an all time great of the sport.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

I said it first. Fraudor is the Floyd Mayweather Jr of the sport,


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