# The Lesnar Resurrection Thread



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

WAR BROCK, this is the start of the 2nd coming of brocks revenge, the first time he killed heath herring,randys head was bounced like a basketball, and frank wishes he was never born, carwin also lost for the first time in this reign. now it starts all over again but even worse for his foes everyone who likes(loves) brock get on the wagon!


by the way no negative crap, i dont want a troll thread full of haters, if you disagree then say in a attitude that provokes fights

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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Brocks rise to be ranks No.1 HW in the world last time was without question unbelievable.

To get there he had to overcome the extensive challengers listed below

1. Beat a can Like Herring
2. Beat a 47 year old LHW pulled out of retirement to fight at HW
3. Avenge a loss against a good but not great fighter who stylistically perfectly falls into his limited web of skill
4. Beat a fighter with bad cardio who gasses after 1 round and therefore really is not that good, after been smashed for the entire first 10-8 round.

That had to be the most amazing route to overcome to raise to the No.1 sport, hold and defend the HW title in the world biggest MMA promotion, ever accomplished.

No seriously screw Brock, or at least his professional MMA status he should not be given a interim title shot again so easily its a disgrace to the running of the division that he is been given that shot, instead he should have to start a respected title run starting about with someone like Rothwell.

If he can claim the division and earn his title shots then fair play to him but until this happens his status is a joke and the entire situation continues to bring shame to the entire division.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Brocks rise to be ranks No.1 HW in the world last time was without question unbelievable.
> 
> To get there he had to overcome the extensive challengers listed below
> 
> ...


well who else would you suggest vs dos santos? roy nelson, nope sorry 2 fight lose streak, carwin last loss was LESNAR, cain is injured, mir last loss was LESNAR and he has not beaten much since then, you could throw struve back to the hands odf JDS but we all know what happened last time, shaub wouldn't do much either.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

I like brock, his fights are fun to watch and thats what its all about.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> well who else would you suggest vs dos santos? roy nelson, nope sorry 2 fight lose streak, carwin last loss was LESNAR, cain is injured, mir last loss was LESNAR and he has not beaten much since then, you could throw struve back to the hands odf JDS but we all know what happened last time, shaub wouldn't do much either.


The fact that there is no one else just shows the serious lack of talent in that division, but considering the fact that there are only 2 decent fighters in that division and one of them is injured I would go with Carwin due to the following facts.


If Carwin wins ist not an instant title rematch as it would be in Brocks case.
Carwin was the last Interim champ and at the time he held that belt he was more credible than Brocks claim to the real belt due to Brocks lack of achievement to obtain it.
Carwin did own Brock for the first round, given a chance to learn from his mistakes like not picking his shots wisely and allowing himself to gas as a result, he could oppose more of a threat to Cain and JDS than Brock

But mostly because of the first reason.



pipe said:


> I like brock, his fights are fun to watch and thats what its all about.


This is true until belts are on the line in which case it all becomes about earning the right to be there and who is the best.

Brock been on TUF would work for this reason if his opponent was not JDS the No.1 and only real contender.
Carwin vs Brock or Mir vs Brock would work with no belt on the line.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

For fecks sake Dana, pull your fecking finger out and get Reem and Fedor into the UFC pronto. Add those two to the current roster, and god damn, these *problems *with interims and injuries become *great opportunities* for alternative matchups.

I'm tired of the UFC's bullshit hype regards the depth of the divisions. Deep as a puddle of piss more like... Where the champ gets an injury and we have to scrape barrels to get a match-up that makes sense for the #1 contender.


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## Dan0 (Aug 22, 2008)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Brocks rise to be ranks No.1 HW in the world last time was without question unbelievable.
> 
> To get there he had to overcome the extensive challengers listed below
> 
> ...


This is the truth. Yes, Brock is phenomenal for becoming a solid fighter in a short amount of time, but that's it. He got a couple of convenient fights in the weakest division in the UFC and he was awarded a title shot due to marketability.


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## EliteUndisputed (Nov 26, 2010)

UFC Heavyweight Division is just as good if not better than Strikeforce's, dunno what you're talking about.

And Dos Santos by TKO.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> For fecks sake Dana, pull your fecking finger out and get Reem and Fedor into the UFC pronto. Add those two to the current roster, and god damn, these *problems *with interims and injuries become *great opportunities* for alternative matchups.
> 
> I'm tired of the UFC's bullshit hype regards the depth of the divisions. Deep as a puddle of piss more like... Where the champ gets an injury and we have to scrape barrels to get a match-up that makes sense for the #1 contender.


Usually i would be all for it, but the upcoming HW Grand Prix is the biggest thing happening in the HW division in a long time. At least for me it is. 

As for Brock Lesnar, i like him a lot and i have been a fan of his for years and years.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Rauno said:


> Usually i would be all for it, but the upcoming HW Grand Prix is the biggest thing happening in the HW division in a long time. At least for me it is.


I agree.

But, if I could choose to scrap the GP and get those two fighters into the UFC, I would be more excited.


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Brocks rise to be ranks No.1 HW in the world last time was without question unbelievable.
> 
> To get there he had to overcome the extensive challengers listed below
> 
> ...


Let me do a little list of my own. I'm pretty impartial to Brock, I think he's entertaining, and I think he's talented but he's pretty far removed from my list of favorite fighters. Having said that.

Reasons why Brock SHOULD get this chance, and SHOULD be against JDS on TUFF.

1. His rise to the top of the ranks was impressive, no matter how much disrespect you show the fighters he defeated. Frank Mir is anything but a push over, Randy nor any of his opponents feel the need to use his age as an excuse so why should you.

2. This crap about being unable to take a punch is getting really old. Lets not forget the way Nog crumbled when Cain clocked him, and lets not forget how many people fell victim instantly to Carwins power. Brock took it for over four minutes and still won the fight.

3. His loss against Cain, contrary to popular belief was anything but a beat down! The fight was pretty tightly contested until Cain landed that big shot. Think about it for a second. Had Brock dropped instantly with that shot, the comments would have been "OH BROCK GOT CAUGHT BAD!!!" But he stood in there as long as he could trying to recover... and somehow that makes him afraid to get hit, despite the fact that very act guaranteed he'd get hit about 20 more times.

4. TUFF Will most likely get it's largest rating ever.

5. Even if you hate Brock, you can most likely relax... as you implied Frank was tailer made to be beaten by him, I'm pretty sure you can say the same thing for Brock in JDS's hands.


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## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

Although i'm no fan of Brock, I don't have anything against him either. I think he has the tools to get back to be a serious contender if he makes serious changes. For example:

1) Get rid of your old camp.
2) Get a good boxing trainer and boxing sparring partners.

Brock has the physical tools and wrestling experience to become a very good MMA fighter. What he needs is better striking technique and defense. Everyone knows what he is going to do when things are not going his way, shoot for the take down and ground and pound. Well, what is he cannot take his opponent down ? Let's face it, he has great reach and if he learns to use a jab to keep his opponent at bay that could be the beginning of something good.


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## Toroian (Jan 3, 2009)

Brock is fail! Brock getting this intern belt match is Fail! UFC heavy division is fail! people who don't believe this are dana/ufc nut huggers!

I ask this question who is a more deserving fighter ? A fighter who lost his first fight by gassing in round 2 after dominating the first round or a fighter who got dominated in the first round 2 times in a row? hmmmmm :confused02:

p.s Oh TUF would have been better with Brock and Mir


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## c-dub (Nov 18, 2010)

neoseeker said:


> Although i'm no fan of Brock, I don't have anything against him either. I think he has the tools to get back to be a serious contender if he makes serious changes. For example:
> 
> 1) Get rid of your old camp.
> 2) Get a good boxing trainer and boxing sparring partners.
> ...


^^^ this, and also Mir has good ground game and is anything but tailor-made to be destroyed. Brock is just a beast, and all of the JDS nut-swingers are going to be sorely dissapointed when Brock pounds that balding Brazilian into the ground. JDS is a one demensional fighter and he's going to get steamrolled by Lesnar. *correction, he will get steamrolled by Lesnar as long as Lesnar incorperates the aforementioned training tactics.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

If Brock is a proven winnner against top level competition like Mir, Couture and Carwin, why on Earth should he have to drop down to the bottom of the pecking order and face a 2-2 scrub like Rothwell? He would absolutely destroy Rothwell, and would destroy every fighter at that level of the HW division. As much as people like to deny it, his run to the title was impressive, he beat some seriously good guys and proved himself as one of the top HW's in the world. Losing to a beast like Velasquez doesn't change that, he should be fighting a Top 5 guy, and JDS is the only one free for a fight, so it makes sense. #2 vs #3 battling it out for a shot at the title. Makes very good sense.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Danm2501 said:


> If Brock is a proven winnner against top level competition like Mir, Couture and Carwin, why on Earth should he have to drop down to the bottom of the pecking order and face a 2-2 scrub like Rothwell? He would absolutely destroy Rothwell, and would destroy every fighter at that level of the HW division. As much as people like to deny it, his run to the title was impressive, he beat some seriously good guys and proved himself as one of the top HW's in the world. Losing to a beast like Velasquez doesn't change that, he should be fighting a Top 5 guy, and JDS is the only one free for a fight, so it makes sense. #2 vs #3 battling it out for a shot at the title. Makes very good sense.


Never, ever call rothwell a scrub again. Ever.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Ok, maybe scrub was a tad harsh, but he is simply not on Brock Lesnar's level. He's 1-1 in the UFC, with that win coming over Yvel who's since been cut after being demolished by Jon Madsen. Brock deserves to be fighting Top 5 guys, not only because he's Top 5 himself, but it does not make any business sense to have your most profitable fighter stepping in on the middle of a card against a relative unknown like Rothwell, or Russow. Makes no sense at all.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

BrianRClover said:


> Let me do a little list of my own. I'm pretty impartial to Brock, I think he's entertaining, and I think he's talented but he's pretty far removed from my list of favorite fighters. Having said that.
> 
> Reasons why Brock SHOULD get this chance, and SHOULD be against JDS on TUFF.
> 
> ...


/thread

Ignore KillerShark, people. Whilst he is a good poster, he's a notorious SF fanboy, one whom rarely has anything good to say about the UFC in general, let alone its divisions. He did once try to claim that the UFC's LHW division was crumbling before our very eyes, and that no new talent was being brought in to replace the released elite like Brandon Vera, so that more or less says it all. 

Oh, and Randy was 44 when he fought Brock. Not 47. That'd be his current age :thumbsup:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Danm2501 said:


> Ok, maybe scrub was a tad harsh, but he is simply not on Brock Lesnar's level. He's 1-1 in the UFC, with that win coming over Yvel who's since been cut after being demolished by Jon Madsen. Brock deserves to be fighting Top 5 guys, not only because he's Top 5 himself, but it does not make any business sense to have your most profitable fighter stepping in on the middle of a card against a relative unknown like Rothwell, or Russow. Makes no sense at all.


A tad harsh? It simply isnt true. Are you forgetting that Rothwell beat Yvel with a torn ACL?! Beating any fighter after a torn ACL is a fuckin accomplishment. 

How can you say Rothwell isnt even on Brocks level, what a load of fan boy nonsense. Rothwells current 2-2 scrub record include losses to Cain Velasquez (a fight that was stopped prematurely) and Andrei Arlovski when he was considered one of the best Heavyweights in the world and was on a tear.

He didnt turn into a little girl when he was getting punched in the face by Cain either.

Rothwell is a very solid, experienced fighter with good kick boxing. He would be a great test for Brock.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Where the hell has Big Ben been at, anyway? Surely not still rehabbing?


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Rothwell's a talented dude, but the fact is, he's 1-1 in the UFC. Brock deserves to be fighting Top 5 HW's, Rothwell's not even Top 10. Brock would take him down and pound on him, wouldn't be a close fight at all I don't think.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Danm2501 said:


> Rothwell's a talented dude, but the fact is, he's 1-1 in the UFC. Brock deserves to be fighting Top 5 HW's, Rothwell's not even Top 10. Brock would take him down and pound on him, wouldn't be a close fight at all I don't think.


You keep believing what ever you want. Rothwells only loss in the UFC is to Cain Velasquez and he hung in there longer than Brock and didnt wilt and spin around the octagon when he got hit. I dont even think you've seen any of Rothwells fights outside of the UFC, you know nothing about him.

Whats stopping Brock from taking down JDS and pounding on him? We know nothing about JDS' TDD against wrestlers or any thing about his ground game at all.

Id bet money on Rothwell beating Mir, Carwin, Couture and Herring. All of Brocks wins.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

I also believe that Rothwell could very well beat Brock, Carwin, JDS, Mir (of course), Herring and so on..

Brock vs. Rothwell would have made much more sense right now.

But Brock can also definitely beat JDS and Rothwell, wouldn't surprise me at all.

But the easier fight for Brock should definitely be JDS.


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

I am still a Brock fan and think he can beat JDS even though this will be hard. He will get better and we will see if he can get back the title.

Even if he doesnt, this ultimate fighter season will be awesome!


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> I also believe that Rothwell could very well beat Brock, Carwin, JDS, Mir (of course), Herring and so on..
> 
> Brock vs. Rothwell would have made much more sense right now.
> 
> ...


What? That is beyond ridiculous. Have you seen Rothwell's wrestling? oh yea..he is the slowest HW in the division right now.

Cain was able to man handle Rothwell fairly easily on the ground, I have no doubt Brock would be able to take him down and keep him down as well.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> What? That is beyond ridiculous. Have you seen Rothwell's wrestling? oh yea..he is the slowest HW in the division right now.
> 
> Cain was able to man handle Rothwell fairly easily on the ground, I have no doubt Brock would be able to take him down and keep him down as well.


LOL watch Cain vs Brock again please.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> LOL watch Cain vs Brock again please.


We are talking about Rothwell here, What does that fight have to do with anything? 

Thought you were smarter than that, don't let your hatred of Brock Lesnar impair your thoughts.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Abrissbirne said:


> I am still a Brock fan and think he can beat JDS even though this will be hard. He will get better and we will see if he can get back the title.
> 
> Even if he doesnt, this ultimate fighter season will be awesome!


I don't think Brock is going to improve, despite what Brock's current standing should be the fact is he will fight JDS he will lose and I bet that's the last we ever see of him in the octagon.

People talking about how great Brock is or was will become laughable, he will just become a guy who came to the UFC, sold a load of PPV's proved that the UFC can hype up a fighter to seem well above his actual skill level and should the money be in it for them they will do just that making them a sell out MMA orgainsation.

All credibility to the UFC HW title was killed the moment they pulled Randy out of retirement, maybe they should of held a GP to find a new champ, would of been a lot more credible than giving it to Brock.

The only true champion Brock ever was is the guy who sold the most PPV's and that's all that title meant in his hands, "Here is our champion the guy who will sell the most PPV's in UFC history Brock Lesnar". It was a hand selected route through the UFC while other more deserving fighters suffered though lack of expose and not getting the fight they should of had or quantity of fights they should of had, so the UFC could use Brocks fame to make more money.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> We are talking about Rothwell here, What does that fight have to do with anything?
> 
> Thought you were smarter than that, don't let your hatred of Brock Lesnar impair your thoughts.


Dude what do you want from me?

You said just look how easily Cain manhandled Rothwell, yea your right. And now watch Cain vs. Brock. 

I just replied to your not so smart comment.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

JDS by TKO. It'll be fun to watch him use Lesnar's head as a speed bag though. 

UNLESS! (Devil's Advocate moment)

JDS' TDD is not what the rumors from Blackhouse say it is, or his JJ is not what its rumored to be. Then Lesnar has a shot at a UD, but that's about it.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

After the Cain fight, i have no idea what to think of this fight. It all depends on JDS though, we know that Lesnar is shooting for that takedown and he is probably going to get it. He took Cain down pretty easily if i remember correctly but Cain got back up even more easier. Once the fight touches ground and Brock can hold JDS in there, he should get the late TKO or UD.


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## RKiller (May 17, 2007)

I don't think Brock will come back better than before, but I do see him beating JDS and just about every other HW other than Cain. He improves very quickly, but I wish he would bring in better training partners. He really needs an overhaul if he wants to be able to beat down Cain.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> Dude what do you want from me?
> 
> You said just look how easily Cain manhandled Rothwell, yea your right. And now watch Cain vs. Brock.
> 
> I just replied to your not so smart comment.


It's all about the TD though, Brock took Cain down without much effort, but Cain got back up to his feet in about 5 seconds and pummeled on Brock's face the rest of the fight.

Take that into the Rothwell fight, What makes you think Rothwell can get back up after Lesnar takes him down? I see nothing.

Brock *WILL* take you down at least 1-2 times a round, the question is, can you get back up in a timely matter that doesn't cost you the round?

Don't know how my response wasn't so smart, its pretty clear when I write it up like this.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> It's all about the TD though, Brock took Cain down without much effort, but Cain got back up to his feet in about 5 seconds and pummeled on Brock's face the rest of the fight.
> 
> Take that into the Rothwell fight, What makes you think Rothwell can get back up after Lesnar takes him down? I see nothing.
> 
> ...


Rothwell's background is Wrestling and Kickboxing. That alone is as much of a bad matchup for Lesnar as you can get.

He proved to all of us already that he can get back up underneath the better Wrestler in Cain Valesquez. So whxy shouldn't he be able to do the same when Brock get's on top of him.

I would say the question is more, will Lesnar turtle up again and say stop after Rothwell pounds on him on the ground.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> It's all about the TD though, Brock took Cain down without much effort, but Cain got back up to his feet in about 5 seconds and pummeled on Brock's face the rest of the fight.
> 
> Take that into the Rothwell fight, What makes you think Rothwell can get back up after Lesnar takes him down? I see nothing.
> 
> ...


You too, have seen none of Rothwells fights outside of the UFC.

Rothwell is probably on the top 3 list of toughest fighters in the HW division, he is that tough. 

Rothwell is a solid grappler, tough as nails, has good kick boxing and hits ******* hard. All three of those attributes are going to give brock problems.

I'm not saying that Rothwell would comfortably beat lesnar either, it could go either way, i just dont like to see absurd comments saying brock is some world beater and guys like rothwell arnt even in his league, that is just rubbish.

And Cain is a vastly superior MMA wrestler to brock lesnar. Vastly.


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## andersen85 (Oct 18, 2010)

Rauno said:


> After the Cain fight, i have no idea what to think of this fight. *It all depends on JDS though, we know that Lesnar is shooting for that takedown and he is probably going to get it.* He took Cain down pretty easily if i remember correctly but Cain got back up even more easier. Once the fight touches ground and Brock can hold JDS in there, he should get the late TKO or UD.



I see Brock eating one of Dos Santos' huge uppercuts when he goes to shoot


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> well who else would you suggest vs dos santos? roy nelson, nope sorry 2 fight lose streak, carwin last loss was LESNAR, cain is injured, mir last loss was LESNAR and he has not beaten much since then, you could throw struve back to the hands odf JDS but we all know what happened last time, shaub wouldn't do much either.


Carwin looked better in his fight with Lesnar than Lesnar did in his last 2 fights..............


Brock is A VERY BIG HW thats all.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Spec0688 said:


> We are talking about Rothwell here, What does that fight have to do with anything?
> 
> Thought you were smarter than that, don't let your hatred of Brock Lesnar impair your thoughts.


Brock fans are very naive , no one hates Brock they are realists he looks the part , huge , bad attitude , tattoos the works but when it comes down to it , he has a bad reaction to being hit in a sport which involves being hit and he has no stand up ability along with not being able to keep a man who is 20lbs or more lighter than him while on top, His popularity in the WWE has got him ahead in MMA while others who are better prospects have to earn it , which makes alot of people mad, he has had his chance and has now been given another its obvious he is going to get hated on when you get things you DONT DESERVE.

Mir has done more to deserve a shot at present since he has a win streak and a win over Brock also.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Why exactly does Mir deserve a shot at JDS? For ko'ing the carcass of Cro Cop? 

Like it or not, Lesnar is one of the best heavyweights the UFC has. I'd love for Overeem, Fedor, Rogers, and the rest of the S.F. HW gang to come to the UFC to validate the talent but it hasn't happened yet. 

Lesnar has nowhere to go but up and I was really impressed when I read that part of the deal of him coaching the tuf kids was a title shot if he was victorious in the JDS fight. Anyone that would want another shot at a guy that humiliated him has my respect.


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## dav35 (Sep 30, 2009)

RustyRenegade said:


> Why exactly does Mir deserve a shot at JDS? For ko'ing the carcass of Cro Cop?
> 
> Like it or not, Lesnar is one of the best heavyweights the UFC has. I'd love for Overeem, Fedor, Rogers, and the rest of the S.F. HW gang to come to the UFC to validate the talent but it hasn't happened yet.
> 
> *Lesnar has nowhere to go but up and I was really impressed when I read that part of the deal of him coaching the tuf kids was a title shot if he was victorious in the JDS fight. Anyone that would want another shot at a guy that humiliated him has my respect.*


Quoted for truth. Brock is a competitor and I LOVE it. Personally, I'd rather see Brock take another fight (win or lose) after the JDS fight before going after Cain. He needs some time to work on his standup and to become more accustomed to being hit in the face. It may never happen (being hit in the face is NOT fun), but you never know. 

I love JDS, but I am rooting for Brock. JDS is young and will have plenty of chances to contend in the future. 

I am very excited to see JDS' ground game. We have yet to see it and, barring any early KO shots, we are certain to see it in this fight.

If Brock loses, he is 3 fights removed from a contender fight IMO.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

My FFL team hopes you're right. I however, do not see it happening ...


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

War Brock! I love how people talk shit about Brocks carrier when he just wanted to fight and get to the title like EVERYONE ELSE, and the fact he got it so fast was because of the lack of talent in the HW division... Randy was champ for peat sake....

And Lesnar has been fighting top level in the hardest MMA promotion sense his 2nd! Fight!

Haters will hate but they cant take away who Brock has beaten and how long he has been in the game.... Certainly not long enough to accomplish all that he has!

What an amazing MMA carrier so far! WAR BROCK!


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I hated on lesnar for years, but now he is at rock bottom and most of the bandwagon fans are gone. I can finally become a fan of his. Lesnar as a fighter got big two fast and his last two preformance showed why people had their doubts. However he can recover and become a better fighter. I would love to see Lesnar as the champ again.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> I hated on lesnar for years, but now he is at rock bottom and most of the bandwagon fans are gone. I can finally become a fan of his. Lesnar as a fighter got big two fast and his last two preformance showed why people had their doubts. However he can recover and become a better fighter. I would love to see Lesnar as the champ again.


Me too! Although ive always been a fan of Brock because he Brings a level of excitement in ALL of his fights so whats not to love???

And Brock has come a long way, from going to only knowing Wrestling to learning your Submission Defense/Offense, and now we all see his lack on the stand up, which is obviously going to be his biggest test against JDS.


And i totally agree with everyone that Lesnar shouldn't be getting a Title Contender fight, but im starting to like this idea more and more, i mean if Brock can prove he has gotten a lot better at head movement and how to take a punch, its going to be in this JDS fight.

I dont see Brock holding him down for very long so its going to be a true test of his Stand up D, and if he succeeds then all power to him!


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## Mastermonster (Jan 9, 2011)

And I love to see Brock take on Cigano. Both of them are exciting fighters.War Brock!


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Can't wait to see what Brock fans have to say after JDS smashes him and he quits and fcuks off back to the WWE.

Will they still say he was a great ex-champ and fighter who achieved great things in a short space of time and small number of fights, or a fraud who was hand fed his career to sell PPV's at the expense of selling out the entire HW division and the fighters with the skill to be where he was but never had the chance because Dana choice Brock because of his fame over his fighting skills to be the paper champ.

Who knows maybe he will believe that there are weaker fighters over at SF and leave the UFC and go there to face second rate opponents if he feels he can't handle the UFC, would love to see if he can take the HW title away from Overeem, now that I would love to see.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Can't wait to see what Brock fans have to say after JDS smashes him and he quits and fcuks off back to the WWE.
> 
> Will they still say he was a great ex-champ and fighter who achieved great things in a short space of time and small number of fights, or a fraud who was hand fed his career to sell PPV's at the expense of selling out the entire HW division and the fighters with the skill to be where he was but never had the chance because Dana choice Brock because of his fame over his fighting skills to be the paper champ.
> 
> Who knows maybe he will believe that there are weaker fighters over at SF and leave the UFC and go there to face second rate opponents if he feels he can't handle the UFC, would love to see if he can take the HW title away from Overeem, now that I would love to see.


dude your delusional, lesnar isn't jose aldo he has not many fans and NO band wagoners, just some people on this forum, i am a real; fan because i have supported lesnar since his first fight with mir i never get off my fighter bandwagons, too many fans in mma hate their former fav fighter after they lose, lesnar has 95% of the world against him and saying he sucks. so i dont know why you would say what are the lesnar fans gonna say when this guy beats him or that guy beats him. end rant thank you/


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> dude your delusional, lesnar isn't jose aldo he has not many fans and NO band wagoners, just some people on this forum, i am a real; fan because i have supported lesnar since his first fight with mir i never get off my fighter bandwagons, too many fans in mma hate their former fav fighter after they lose, lesnar has 95% of the world against him and saying he sucks. so i dont know why you would say what are the lesnar fans gonna say when this guy beats him or that guy beats him. end rant thank you/


For the record I was never one of these fans you are talking about who supported Brock then turned on him when he lost, I saw what was going on from the start and stated many times when he was champ about the easy hand fed run the UFC gave him to make him there champ, and that it was only a matter of time until ether Cain or JDS got there shot at him and took the title from him with ease.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> For the record I was never one of these fans you are talking about who supported Brock then turned on him when he lost, I saw what was going on from the start and stated many times when he was champ about the easy hand fed run the UFC gave him to make him there champ, and that it was only a matter of time until ether Cain or JDS got there shot at him and took the title from him with ease.


all of that is correct but i don't know your motive for hating brock, because he got an easy run to the title? thats not his fault dana and joe make the matches not him


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> dude your delusional, lesnar isn't jose aldo he has not many fans and NO band wagoners, just some people on this forum, i am a real; fan because i have supported lesnar since his first fight with mir i never get off my fighter bandwagons, too many fans in mma hate their former fav fighter after they lose, lesnar has 95% of the world against him and saying he sucks. so i dont know why you would say what are the lesnar fans gonna say when this guy beats him or that guy beats him. end rant thank you/





KillerShark1985 said:


> For the record I was never one of these fans you are talking about who supported Brock then turned on him when he lost, I saw what was going on from the start and stated many times when he was champ about the easy hand fed run the UFC gave him to make him there champ, and that it was only a matter of time until ether Cain or JDS got there shot at him and took the title from him with ease.


It is possible to co-exist you know! I actually agree with both you guys. Yes, I believe Dana short tracked Lesnar to the title. Yes, it was because he was highly marketable. I also bet real money on Cain taking him out in round one. I was convinced it would be that easy, and it was. This is true. But, I cant blame him for it. He entertains me. The whole thing, as a bit of an experiment, interests me. I would like nothing better than Brock managing to work through his weaknesses and proving himself as a proper legitimate champion.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

I will sig bet with anyone first come first served that not only does Brock lose to JDS but that he quits the UFC straight after.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Brock may lose to JDS, but he's never going back to being an active pro wrestler.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> I will sig bet with anyone first come first served that not only does Brock lose to JDS but that he quits the UFC straight after.


ill take the 2nd part of that bet, where else would he go? and he wont quit after 2 losses anyways


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## Mastermonster (Jan 9, 2011)

This will be his last fight in his UFC contract, but I don't think he'll sign up again.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> ill take the 2nd part of that bet, where else would he go? and he wont quit after 2 losses anyways


OK your on, remind each other near to the fight.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> OK your on, remind each other near to the fight.


kk, i dont have an agenda against you so i probably wont put anything gay on your sig anyways.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> OK your on, remind each other near to the fight.


No, do not bet with ufc owns mate. He backs out of them when he loses. He's had a sig bet with another user on this forum over cain/lesnar and he just ignored the guy. He also had a bet for real money and backed out. He's a fraud.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Machida Karate said:


> War Brock! I love how people talk shit about Brocks carrier when he just wanted to fight and get to the title like EVERYONE ELSE, and the fact he got it so fast was because of the lack of talent in the HW division... Randy was champ for peat sake....
> 
> And Lesnar has been fighting top level in the hardest MMA promotion sense his 2nd! Fight!
> 
> ...


I like this post.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

me too hehe MK knows what its all about


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

One loss to Cain - whose a great fighter.. Brock is just one of best, but also one of the least experienced out there. And he certainly is a UFC caliber fighter and belongs in the octagon with what he brings. I don't think he necessarily has a glass-jaw, just very awful stand-up and leaves his jaw out there to be clipped. He needs to loosen up his stand-up, defensively and offensively.

He did destroy Mir and survive the Carwin GnP. And everytime someone mentions an equally experienced fighter like say Matt Mitrione or former great, but older fighter like Big Nog as an opponent for Brock, I see posts everywhere how it's a big mismatch just so UFC can give Brock a win.

Looking forward, even JDS. If JDS goes his regular tit for tat jab trading for multiple rounds, that's not really a smart strategy with the force Brock can throw into his punches.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Brock isn't going to lose to Junior Dos Santos, and you can quote me on that. I've been on the JDS bandwagon since the Werdum fight, and I'm a big fan of his, but I see Brock being too powerful and having too good wrestling to JDS to handle. Then on the ground JDS won't be able to threaten Brock. If Mir couldn't handle Brock's top control, given his superb guard, I don't see JDS pulling something out. If this was Fabricio Werdum, then there's a chance, but not JDS. I just don't see him being skilled enough off his back to handle Brock. If Brock is patient, covers up well and then takes his time on the ground like against Mir then he'll win. I just hope he doesn't try and rush a transition on the ground like he did against Cain and get countered and put back to his feet. JDS may have impressive TDD, but I don't see it being better than Cain's, and Brock managed to take him down. I'm taking Brock via TKO in the 2nd.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Danm2501 said:


> Brock isn't going to lose to Junior Dos Santos, and you can quote me on that. I've been on the JDS bandwagon since the Werdum fight, and I'm a big fan of his, but I see Brock being too powerful and having too good wrestling to JDS to handle. Then on the ground JDS won't be able to threaten Brock. If Mir couldn't handle Brock's top control, given his superb guard, I don't see JDS pulling something out. If this was Fabricio Werdum, then there's a chance, but not JDS. I just don't see him being skilled enough off his back to handle Brock. If Brock is patient, covers up well and then takes his time on the ground like against Mir then he'll win. I just hope he doesn't try and rush a transition on the ground like he did against Cain and get countered and put back to his feet. JDS may have impressive TDD, but I don't see it being better than Cain's, and Brock managed to take him down. I'm taking Brock via TKO in the 2nd.


Pretty much what i think is going to happen.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Danm2501 said:


> Brock isn't going to lose to Junior Dos Santos, and you can quote me on that. I've been on the JDS bandwagon since the Werdum fight, and I'm a big fan of his, but I see Brock being too powerful and having too good wrestling to JDS to handle. Then on the ground JDS won't be able to threaten Brock. If Mir couldn't handle Brock's top control, given his superb guard, I don't see JDS pulling something out. If this was Fabricio Werdum, then there's a chance, but not JDS. I just don't see him being skilled enough off his back to handle Brock. If Brock is patient, covers up well and then takes his time on the ground like against Mir then he'll win. I just hope he doesn't try and rush a transition on the ground like he did against Cain and get countered and put back to his feet. JDS may have impressive TDD, but I don't see it being better than Cain's, and Brock managed to take him down. I'm taking Brock via TKO in the 2nd.


The fight will be over once Dos Santos lands his first punch!
Brock --> Panic --> Running --> Fetus mode --> JDS cuts him off --> Finnishes!

Brock's only chance is to take him down earlt without being hit first!


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I think his near loss to Shane didn't get through to his head about working stand up even more than before and getting used to getting hit. A lot of people were amazed he survived Shane that he probably kept going on the same. I think the fight with Cain taught him more about what he needs to learn. I think Brock is the favorite to win, but it will be interesting to see how he reacts to getting punched in the face again.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

MrObjective said:


> One loss to Cain - whose a great fighter.. Brock is just one of best, but also one of the least experienced out there. And he certainly is a UFC caliber fighter and belongs in the octagon with what he brings. I don't think he necessarily has a glass-jaw, just very awful stand-up and leaves his jaw out there to be clipped. He needs to loosen up his stand-up, defensively and offensively.
> 
> He did destroy Mir and survive the Carwin GnP. And everytime someone mentions an equally experienced fighter like say Matt Mitrione or former great, but older fighter like Big Nog as an opponent for Brock, I see posts everywhere how it's a big mismatch just so UFC can give Brock a win.
> 
> Looking forward, even JDS. * If JDS goes his regular tit for tat jab trading for multiple rounds, that's not really a smart strategy with the force Brock can throw into his punches*.


ha ha ha. Do you even know who JDS is? You must be mistaking him for another fighter. When has JDS ever had a tit tat jab trading performance for 3 rounds?! What on earth are you talking about? And then you're saying JDS should be weary of Brocks punching power?! What are you smoking?


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

JDS gassed a bit in the Nelson fight because he threw basically haymakers for three rounds and couldn't finish him off. Hardly a guy who throws pitty-patty punches.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Nah, he's right. JDS does throw pitter patter jabs.


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## andersen85 (Oct 18, 2010)

nice videos...those are the uppercuts i was talking about. JDS is one of my favorite fighters and i love that he uses the uppercut with such effectiveness, you dont see it alot these days and guys dont seem to look for it. 

I see brock taking one right in the center of his face when he goes to shoot from to far away.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

nice videos but I still see Brock getting a takedown and keeping him down. Brock got Cain down fairly easily, not like it mattered since Cain got up fairly easily as well, but if Lesnar can even remotely take Cain down, I say he has a very good chance at taking JDS down at least once a round, and that is what he will only need.


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## badboy (Aug 1, 2009)

Brock will smash Cigano! The only reason Cain defeated him was because he negated Brock's wrestling. I predict a 1R/2R TKO. Oh and I love how people discredit Brock's record when if you look at Cigano's and Cain's, Brock's is much more impressive. Brock beat Herring, Couture, Mir, Carwin in his first 6 fights. Cain(apart from beating Brock) has beaten Big Nog(who we can safely say is past it), Kongo(middle of the road guy), Rothwell(need I say more) and a bunch of nobodies and I like Cain before u start with the nuthugger BS. Cigano has beaten Werdum(fair play to him), Struve(not exactly the best fighter out there), a washed up Cro Cop, Napao and Nelson(middle of the road guys at best).


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> ill take the 2nd part of that bet, where else would he go? and he wont quit after 2 losses anyways


3 losses you mean........


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Danm2501 said:


> Rothwell's a talented dude, but the fact is, he's 1-1 in the UFC. Brock deserves to be fighting Top 5 HW's, Rothwell's not even Top 10. Brock would take him down and pound on him, wouldn't be a close fight at all I don't think.


I mostly agree with you, not sure about top five but top ten for sure.

And those are not jabs they are hooks and one mean uppercut.

Still shocked Nelson didn't go out at some point in that fight, tough dude.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

badboy said:


> Brock will smash Cigano! The only reason Cain defeated him was because he negated Brock's wrestling. I predict a 1R/2R TKO. Oh and I love how people discredit Brock's record when if you look at Cigano's and Cain's, Brock's is much more impressive. Brock beat Herring, Couture, Mir, Carwin in his first 6 fights. Cain(apart from beating Brock) has beaten Big Nog(who we can safely say is past it), Kongo(middle of the road guy), Rothwell(need I say more) and a bunch of nobodies and I like Cain before u start with the nuthugger BS. Cigano has beaten Werdum(fair play to him), Struve(not exactly the best fighter out there), a washed up Cro Cop, Napao and Nelson(middle of the road guys at best).


If only you had a clue what you are talking about, not going to even bother wasting my time pointing out all the laughable crap you come out with and the fact your entire statement lacks any type of analysis into the fighters you listed, obviously just just assume wins over Herring, Mir and Couture are more credible because these fighters where more hyped up than the JDS wins you are tying to compare to.

Seriously its like you just looked at a wiki page to see who has beaten who and are basing your opinion on these stats alone without even having seen any of the fighters you are naming fight, well maybe you watched UFC 100 at thought Brocks win over Randy was the greatest win you ever saw in your life and assumed after that Brock could never be beat until Cain came along and pissed on your theory, then you decided that Cain is the No.1 maybe even best ever HW to walk the planet and the only man on the who could beat Brock.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

This is how dumb Brock nut huggers sound, seriously listen to yourselves and see why everyone is laughing at you


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Brock haters sound just as stupid, Killerhshark. There are arguments both for and against on Brock's potential and capability. Blindly dismissing one side or the other is what makes someone stupid. 

In my own opinion I think Brock has a good shot at this fight. He has taken down every opponent he's faced but has had a hard time keeping down skilled wrestlers. If he can keep JDS on his back and work his GnP I believe he will win. That's a big, powerful man to have on top of you playing crack the coconut with your head. Standing... if JDS can keep it standing Lesnar has a bad night a head of him. JDS is probably the best pure striker at heavyweight (IMO if you think someone else is better I don't care. This thread isn't about that.) and standing will hurt Lesnar. Though I don't buy the Lesnar has no chin line of thought. He has been dropped by a Carwin uppercut - no shame there - and was hurt by a Cain hook behind the ear - which disrupted his equilibrium and sent him spinning across the ring. Neither of those are signs of a weak chin. He does have weak stand up defense though. Likes to move straight forward and straight back too much. No angle work. Chin up too far. Hands not high enough.

Basically if JDS can keep it standing he will win but I'm leaning towards a GnP victory for the Vanilla Gorilla. That being said I think JDS has the brightest future at heavyweight of anybody in the division.

See... a Lesnar supporter who isn't a nuthugger. It's amazing what civilized discourse sounds like isn't it?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

It comes down to how much does Brock want to evolve and learn mixed martial arts. Setting up his own camp where hes the boss is not doing him any favours, he isnt going to evolve like that.

He needs to join a real camp, really get pushed, get in there sparring and get used to getting hit in the face.

I would love to see Brock evolve as an MMA fighter, but I really cant see him changing camps and letting other people boss him around.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

I completely agree McKeever. Hopefully his loss to Cain will spur him in that direction. After Mir he did dedicate himself to learning submission defense so there is some evidence that he will focus on developing his stand up in such a fashion. Hard to say right now.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> I completely agree McKeever. Hopefully his loss to Cain will spur him in that direction. After Mir he did dedicate himself to learning submission defense so there is some evidence that he will focus on developing his stand up in such a fashion. Hard to say right now.


Yea, well i thought even though he beat carwin, he would have learned about his holes in his striking defense and really turned it up for the cain fight, but he didnt.

The whole Brock has a weak chin thing is nonsense. He wasnt wobbled by carwin, he got hit, really didnt like it, turned his back and flopped the floor, he didnt know what to do!

That comes with experience and sparring. He is not going to learn in his own camp where he is the boss! Get him into another gym, throw him in a ring with some head gear and spar day in day out. i really just cant see him doing that though. Brock has to be the one calling the shots, the one in control.

I can just see JDS hitting him and again, because brock hasnt been learning in that area, panicking and running away.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

does not matter how much he works on his stand up between now and when he has to fight JDS, he is not going to beat JDS standing so it would be a complete waste of his time in preparation for this fight, if he was to spend the next 6 months working purly on his stand up, which he won't get to do coaching on TUF, dam he would still be so far behind JDS it would be a joke.

Brocks only chance is to get him to the ground keep him there and try get the TKO or submission, and unlike Cain, Mir, Couture who actually did a fairly good job stuffing his TD's considering the size difference, JDS will consecrate more on defending the TD's where as the others are ground fighters who dont have to worry as much about keeping a fight standing because the strongest side of there skill sets involve been on the ground.

JDS is the first truly talented technical striker he has ever faced, much more of a threat on the Feet than Carwin imo, we all saw how Carwin was able to hurt him standing, JDS will not fall to the same ills Carwin did destroy him.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

I'll say initially that I think it's far more likely that JDS will win this one, vs Lesnar winning this one.

I think that Lesnar's weaknesses are now blatantly apparent. His stand up is on unfavorable ground at best. He's slow, heavy, and lacks footwork. His takedowns themselves are not very mighty either. At the very beginning of the fight with Velasquez he shot a bullrush, the same can be said for very early against Carwin. Both fighters defended easily, Carwin with muscle underhooks, Velasquez with footwork a great technique. 

The fact is Lesnar has taken down all of his opponents, why would JDS be any different? However, his takedown of Carwin, was when he was go gassed he "couldn't feel his legs" and Velasquez is a full 20-30lbs less than Lesnar. As well as against Couture, Couture did defend some of his takedowns, but as a bloated LHW, was lucky he was even able to do what he did. 

I think JDS is very untested against high level grapplers. Werdum is his only major opponent with a significant grappling background, and he's not known for his power doubles. 

In the Werdum fight, JDS did slam home that effortless uppercut as Werdum was moving in, to throw, clinch or shoot, I don't remember. All I know is that the technique was crisp and very fast. Against Nelson, another fighter not known for his power double, he did sprawl his takedown attempts, though through footwork, not strength. 

My overall impression: JDS can win this more easily than Lesnar by a long shot. JDS has better stand up technique by a few miles. His JJ is untested, but his counter fighting is very effective, this was apparent in the third round against Nelson when he was unable to finsh him. Lesnar has a shot, as much as any wrestler does against a striker. But the biggest question for me is, how good is JDS' takedown defense. Because the will decide this fight. Can JDS sprawl or scramble against Lesnar's bulk.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

But then Carwin has the Div II National Championship wrestling to defend Brock's takedowns. JDS doesn't. JDS might be the most talented striker Brock has faced, but it won't matter if he can't defend the shot. 

Brock is not as much of a sitting duck on the feet as many think either. It simply is not a fact that as soon as someone touches Brock's face he falls to the floor into the fetal position. Brock took a heavy knee from Mir and didn't quit. He took a heavy shot from Carwin standing, which would have dropped most guys, and then took big shots on the ground before defending himself properly and getting back to his feet in the last 90 seconds of the round. Then against Cain he was doing well, and more than in the fight until Cain landed that stiff shot right on the nerve in Brock's jaw which fucked with his equilibrium. If that shot hadn't landed on that specific shot Brock would have been in a far better condition to survive. After completely losing his equilibrium the fight was done, he wouldn't have been able to see straight, his legs would have completely left him and he was a sitting duck for an skilled striker like Cain. Then finally the huge knee wrecked him, but it all came from that 1 shot from Cain, not Brock being completely unable to take punches. 

Brock might not like being hit, but he's got a ******* chin. Shane Carwin can attest to that. He clearly didn't enjoy being hit, he flinched when Shane hit him, but that's something that can be learnt. The dude does have a chin, and doesn't just curl up, like many Brock haters suddenly believe he does, and go into the fetal position as soon as he's hit. 

Obviously, if JDS lands one of those brutal uppercuts on Brock's chin, it'll be as good as over, but it'd be all over for all HW's in the world, JDS hits like a freight train. The key for me though, is the wrestling. I think it's massively unlikely that Cigano will be able to defend the shot. What he can do from the bottom to shake Brock off is another thing, but I see Brock taking JDS down, controlling his posture, being much more patient in attempting transitions than he was against Cain and pounding on him. I may be proven wrong, and would be not surprised at all to see JDS take it, but I'm backing Brock all the way.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Killershark... your hatred knows no bounds. It also blinds you to the illogic of your comments. Brock training stand up is a waste of time? Improving his striking defense will be a waste of time? Closing the holes in his game will be a waste of time? An improvement that will make it easier for him to get the fight to the ground will be a waste of time? Think about that for a minute and realize just how ignorant that really is.

Squirrelfighter:

JDS has as many ways to win this fight as Brock. Standing tko or ko versus GnP tko or ko. The thought that lends towards Brock winning is that JDS has no extensive wrestling background and Blackhouse isn't known for producing strong wrestlers. They do tend to produce people with a good game off of their back but that is not where you want to be with Brock. 

To date the only people to really put up a fight against his tds are Cain, Carwin, and Randy. Cain was actually taken down rather easily but he took advantage of an error Brock made to escape back to his feet. Carwin muscled his way out of an early td attempt that hit badly. Randy is just that good of an mma wrestler. So we know a good wrestler is trouble for Brock. JDS hasn't shown us this yet. There is just no way to tell. Till the fight it is a pretty classic striker versus grappler match up.

We all know how that usually ends up.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> Squirrelfighter:
> 
> JDS has as many ways to win this fight as Brock. Standing tko or ko versus GnP tko or ko. The thought that lends towards Brock winning is that JDS has no extensive wrestling background and Blackhouse isn't known for producing strong wrestlers. They do tend to produce people with a good game off of their back but that is not where you want to be with Brock.
> 
> ...


I don't really see in what way Lesnar should be able to finish JDS with KO/TKO. JDS has been hit in the face by Nelson, Cro Cop, Werdum, and everyone else he's ever fought. And he's never wilted under the pressure. Why is Lesnar any different? Lesnar's punching power isn't a big issue comparatively speaking. He's only damaged one opponent in any serious way (Mir 2). I won't use the Herring eye injury to describe his punching power since GSP just did it to Koscheck with a jab. 

I think JDS is educated in fighting off his back. He trains at Blackhouse, as you said. He trains JJ with the Nogeuiras which counts for a lot on the ground. There are also rumors, and have been for some time, that JDS has great takedown defense. I really wish he would have fought an accomplished wrestler earlier on in his career so we could compare it to Lesnar's style, not just rely on hearsay and theories. 

I think JDS' biggest advantage in this fight is he only really needs to develop one trait to win this fight. Takedown defense. He's faster, smoother, and more powerful on his feet than Lesnar. All he has to do is keep it standing. That in and of itself is a highbill to pay, but there have been much more amazing upsets.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Just to clarify I believe that Lesnar would ko or tko JDS with ground and pound. Not standing. That's how I believe Lesnar would most likely win. I'm not saying that JDS would wilt under the pressure. I'm saying that having a 285lb Vanilla Gorilla sitting on top of you dropping lunchbox sized fists onto his head like a baboon discovering the drums is an unfortunate situation to be in. And if JDS can't stop the td or get back up quickly is exactly the situation he'll find himself in.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> Just to clarify I believe that Lesnar would ko or tko JDS with ground and pound. Not standing. That's how I believe Lesnar would most likely win. I'm not saying that JDS would wilt under the pressure. I'm saying that having a 285lb Vanilla Gorilla sitting on top of you dropping lunchbox sized fists onto his head like a baboon discovering the drums is an unfortunate situation to be in. And if JDS can't stop the td or get back up quickly is exactly the situation he'll find himself in.


We're just going to have to disagree on the outcome of this one.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

I don't really think that we disagree on the outcomes so much as their probability. I firmly believe that if JDS can keep it standing Lesnar will lose. I believe the same about him if he is fighting anyone in the heavyweight division. If Lesnar can keep him down or put him down too easily it's going to be a bad night for Cigano. I have to lean towards the latter because we haven't seen JDS' wrestling or sprawls really. While we have seen what Lesnar can do if you can't keep him from being on top.

Going off of what we know I have to give it to Lesnar. JDS does just need really good tdd to stop him but that's a hard skill to truly master especially when you don't have wrestling heavy camp to train with. Most Blackhouse fighters seem to favor having a good game off of their back as opposed to great tdd. That would be a mistake in my opinion for this fight.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Danm2501 said:


> Brock might not like being hit, but he's got a ******* chin. Shane Carwin can attest to that. He clearly didn't enjoy being hit, he flinched when Shane hit him, but that's something that can be learnt.


Yes, so far it looks like he has a good chin. He did take quite some punishment and didn't get KOed, but his lack of heart when getting hit isn't something that can be fixed that easily. I can't remember of anyone who was a "turtler" who became someone who takes shots to the head/face with ease even after years of training. This fighting back attitude is something that is build in childhood and to my opinion almost impossible to get later.


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> ha ha ha. Do you even know who JDS is? You must be mistaking him for another fighter. When has JDS ever had a tit tat jab trading performance for 3 rounds?! What on earth are you talking about? And then you're saying JDS should be weary of Brocks punching power?! What are you smoking?


Yeah, I watched him throw basically 1-2 combos against Nelson and Cro Cop, JDS proved superior speed and power advantage over both. No jab, cross, hook, uppercut, connect on the guys chin. Both could have been knocked out by JDS as both were absolutely inferior to JDS, and had he attacked as well honed striker should, he could have could have gotten the pure KO, both both did go 3 rounds. Cro Cop quit because of his broken eye orbital. Nelson just kept his hands up and took the jabs and crosses. Gonzaga didn't keep his hands up and JDS caught him.

JDS just doesn't throw 1-2-3-4-5 combos to finish fights, he doesn't use his legs either. It's like a waste - you know how much torque and power his body frame could generate in a body kick (but he doesn't kick). 

If JDS comes out with 1-2 jab, jab, cross, take a shot, move around.. and repeat. After the Nelson fight people were impressed with Nelson's chin, the thing is JDS didn't get to his chin, he just relied on his straight punches and superior athleticism the entire fight, same with Cro Cop. A good boxer with JDS's natural superiority would have thrown combos, created an opening and KOed his opponent. A good kick boxer/Muai Thai fighter would of nailed atleast some crippling body shots. 

Really JDS may be more stronger and be more athletic than Cro Cop ever was even in his Pride days, but young Cro Cop brought a lot more to the table. Along with impeccable take down defense. outstanding combos to setup a finish, body crippling kicks, and his infamous head kicks.

What i'm saying JDS has potential far beyond what he's shown. *This - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxSksqCJqas is how JDS takes it to the next level.* That's the potential that awaits him.

That's the kind of attack you're getting with Overeem, but not JDS.

Both OLD Cro Cop and Nelson were absolutely inferior to what JDS brought. Neither could touch him, yet JDS ate a lot of unnecessary shots because he trades tit for tat, and is content on beating guys with 1-2 jabs and backing away, using his physical superiority.

But if he fights the way he has been, Brock does punch harder and Brock's striking is basically best when it's slow and he can throw a jab which does generate a lot of force. Brock lacks stand-up skill - he's stiff, but he does have power when he throws. 

If JDS doesn't use his striking to his potential, like even Cain did (with his natural physical limitations), then Brock will be a tougher test for him standing up was all I was saying.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Danm2501 said:


> Brock might not like being hit, but he's got a ******* chin. Shane Carwin can attest to that. He clearly didn't enjoy being hit, he flinched when Shane hit him, but that's something that can be learnt. The dude does have a chin, and doesn't just curl up, like many Brock haters suddenly believe he does, and go into the fetal position as soon as he's hit.


He might have a good chin, but that doesn't really help him if he doesn't know how to use it.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Squirrelfighter said:


> I don't really see in what way Lesnar should be able to finish JDS with KO/TKO. JDS has been hit in the face by Nelson, Cro Cop, Werdum, and everyone else he's ever fought. And he's never wilted under the pressure. Why is Lesnar any different? Lesnar's punching power isn't a big issue comparatively speaking. He's only damaged one opponent in any serious way (Mir 2). I won't use the Herring eye injury to describe his punching power since GSP just did it to Koscheck with a jab.
> 
> I think JDS is educated in fighting off his back. He trains at Blackhouse, as you said. He trains JJ with the Nogeuiras which counts for a lot on the ground. There are also rumors, and have been for some time, that JDS has great takedown defense. I really wish he would have fought an accomplished wrestler earlier on in his career so we could compare it to Lesnar's style, not just rely on hearsay and theories.
> 
> I think JDS' biggest advantage in this fight is he only really needs to develop one trait to win this fight. Takedown defense. He's faster, smoother, and more powerful on his feet than Lesnar. All he has to do is keep it standing. That in and of itself is a highbill to pay, but there have been much more amazing upsets.


Kenny florian has been training with GSP. including for the MAYNARD FIGHT.


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## badboy (Aug 1, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> If only you had a clue what you are talking about, not going to even bother wasting my time pointing out all the laughable crap you come out with and the fact your entire statement lacks any type of analysis into the fighters you listed, obviously just just assume wins over Herring, Mir and Couture are more credible because these fighters where more hyped up than the JDS wins you are tying to compare to.
> 
> Seriously its like you just looked at a wiki page to see who has beaten who and are basing your opinion on these stats alone without even having seen any of the fighters you are naming fight, well maybe you watched UFC 100 at thought Brocks win over Randy was the greatest win you ever saw in your life and assumed after that Brock could never be beat until Cain came along and pissed on your theory, then you decided that Cain is the No.1 maybe even best ever HW to walk the planet and the only man on the who could beat Brock.


You made me laugh CLOWN! You know nothing about me and who I liked or dislike after what fights. So come down off your high horse and talk civilly. Where did I state Brocks win over Randy was the greatest win I ever saw in my life? Where did I state Cain is No.1? Nowhere, you just spout your BS with nothing constructive to say at all. Judging by your favourite fighters, It's you thats fallen into the trap of the hype machine.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Lol people like Killershark, make coming back to these threads worth it to get a good laugh :happy02:


Im going to start going to Brock threads more often! There seems to be almost as many haters here as the Machida Threads! 

So much funny ass blind hate/reasoning, I for one thank Brock for ALWAYS entertaining me and dedicating himself to a sport that i LOVE, and puts his Health and reputation on the line to Bring on a SHOW! YOu think Brock Needs the MONEY? LOL!

He is putting ALL this time into the sport because he LOVES it.... Not to mention freakishly good at it!

Win or Lose i hope he sticks to it, because anyone that beats him now, has a good chance of getting whooped later if Brock sticks with it!

All he really needs now is better stand up and learn how to take a punch/react to a punch once again WAR BROCK!


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## Mike28 (Aug 11, 2010)

I really like Brock but he has taken a beating in his last 2 fights. I am going to wait on getting hyped up until after I see him fight JDS.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Machida Karate said:


> Lol people like Killershark, make coming back to these threads worth it to get a good laugh :happy02:
> 
> 
> Im going to start going to Brock threads more often! There seems to be almost as many haters here as the Machida Threads!
> ...


Yep I know Brock haters like me are attracted to threads like this like Flys to sh1t. This is secretly why I joined this forum to give Brock and his fans abuse, I was just hovering waiting for my chance which was granted on a Gold platter by Cain, allowing me to fulfil my dreams.

You rigth about no way does Brock need the money, so he must of joined th euFC to test himself leading me to think he must of and delusions in his mind about him been the greatest fighter ever, which makes sense when you think about the sh1t he has talked about the true great fighters like Fedor.

I think Cain has caused him to reassess and question his theory about his own greatness and I think JDS will burst his bubble completely and make him realise that he has no place in the cage with A class fighters.


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## c-dub (Nov 18, 2010)

JDS is a head-hunter, as long as Brock keeps his hands up like Nelson did he can just tire him out and then destroy him...


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Yep I know Brock haters like me are attracted to threads like this like Flys to sh1t. This is secretly why I joined this forum to give Brock and his fans abuse, I was just hovering waiting for my chance which was granted on a Gold platter by Cain, allowing me to fulfil my dreams.
> 
> You rigth about no way does Brock need the money, so he must of joined th euFC to test himself leading me to think he must of and delusions in his mind about him been the greatest fighter ever, which makes sense when you think about the sh1t he has talked about the true great fighters like Fedor.
> 
> I think Cain has caused him to reassess and question his theory about his own greatness and I think JDS will burst his bubble completely and make him realise that he has no place in the cage with A class fighters.


Some of the stuff you come out with is just baffling. Where did the drivel about him having delusions in his mind about being the 'best fighter ever' come from? Brock took up MMA, and joined the UFC because he missed competing. The whole reason he went to the NFL is because he missed competition, it wasn't until he realised American Football wasn't the best sport for him that he bowed out and took up MMA, and I'd say he adapted to it pretty well.

Also, when has he ever talked shit about Fedor? Here's what he had to say about Fedor's loss:



> "It was disappointing. I hate to see a guy like that," Lesnar told The Jim Rome Show of Fedor's abrupt fall from grace. "Whether his legacy was more of a mystique than it was, he stood up and he was respectful and it was tough to see. It reminded me of my first fight against Frank [Mir] when I got really anxious and fell right into the trap.
> 
> "That's a tough pill to swallow. That's a big pill to swallow and I definitely do not want to try to swallow that pill again."
> 
> ...


Man, what a douchebag. =/ Seriously, I swear when people think about Brock Lesnar they make shit up in their own minds to fit with the perceived character they have in-built for him. Brock has only ever made sarcastic comments about fighters, or legitimately been disrespectful to Frank Mir, and let's be honest, that was deserved. Brock has been very respectful throughout his MMA career, except to Frank Mir, and that appears to be all people remember. It's like the people that hate on Bisping for the 1% of stupid shit he says, 99% of the time he's a cool motherfucker, but those few times he says something silly are the ones the haters pick up on. It's ludicrous.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Yep I know Brock haters like me are attracted to threads like this like Flys to sh1t. This is secretly why I joined this forum to give Brock and his fans abuse, I was just hovering waiting for my chance which was granted on a Gold platter by Cain, allowing me to fulfil my dreams.
> 
> You rigth about no way does Brock need the money, so he must of joined th euFC to test himself leading me to think he must of and delusions in his mind about him been the greatest fighter ever, which makes sense when you think about the sh1t he has talked about the true great fighters like Fedor.
> 
> I think Cain has caused him to reassess and question his theory about his own greatness and I think JDS will burst his bubble completely and make him realise that he has no place in the cage with A class fighters.


Pretty much exactly what i thought you would say, LOL and please dont say shit about disrespecting fighters because you sound a like a big hypocrite


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## Maazisrock (Sep 22, 2008)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Brocks rise to be ranks No.1 HW in the world last time was without question unbelievable.
> 
> To get there he had to overcome the extensive challengers listed below
> 
> ...


ROFL all this is coming from someone who's favorite fighter (Overeem) hasn't fought anyone important in over 2 years. Brock would destroy the fighters Overeem fights.


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## RedNite (Aug 28, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Yep I know Brock haters like me are attracted to threads like this like Flys to sh1t. This is secretly why I joined this forum to give Brock and his fans abuse, I was just hovering waiting for my chance which was granted on a Gold platter by Cain, allowing me to fulfil my dreams.


hah, what a douche bag...


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Well I think Cain did what he needed to do to take Brock out and I cant see why JDS would ignore the success Cain had striking.

I think its really up to Brock to evolve as a fighter, this should be his wake up call that his striking and ground game from bottom need more than just a little work. Right now if you want to shut Brock down all you need to do is stuff the TD and stand, for some of the lesser or less well rounded fighters this might be tough and even then you have to have a chin yourself if you want to get in there and put him out. After I re-watched that fight I did see what I felt was improvement in Brocks striking, it just was not enough improvement. 

I would hope he sees the need for improved defense striking and from guard, he looked absolutely out of his depth like someone flipped over a turtle. He cant just work on the skills he has and expect to win he needs to develop skills he currently doesn't have as well.

Until he closes some of the gaps I think he'll be a hot/cold fighter that can win but will have a hard time with fighters that can stuff or get up from takedowns. 

I also think he has and can continue to evolve so time will tell if thats the case or not.


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