# ***OFFICIAL*** Junior Dos Santos vs Shane Carwin Pre/Post Fight Thread



## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Talk about the fight somewhere else and we'll merge it! Ah, probably.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

I hope JDS takes this, but the only thing I'm 100% confident in this fight is that someone is going to sleep.

It will be interesting to see if Carwin implements a gameplan, it will also be interesting to see how he handles going more than 1 round if it gets that far.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm not much of a JDS fan but I can't really see him losing here. I don't think Carwin's wrestling will be a factor. His attempts to outwrestle Mir were pretty bad. The only area that I see Carwin being greater than JDS in is power. Carwin really needs to land one punch. JDS will use his speed and quickness to stymie Carwin and wear him down, getting a TKO in the early second.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

I see this fight looking more or less like a boxing match, in which JDS would have a clear technical advantage. Also, Carwin has shown weakness in losing while JDS is undefeated and Carwin took the fight on short notice meaning he may not be as prepared.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Rooting for JDS, but Carwin might as well land a punch and win it.


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## meli083 (Mar 31, 2010)

Carwin will out-muscle Dos Santos for the win imo. Push him up against the cage and work his game


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## peanuts40 (Mar 20, 2011)

I think Junior edges this one out with his technicality. But with Carwin he has that one punch KO so you can't count him out. I'll be rooting for Carwin as i always support the underdog and Junior pissed me off a little on TUF.


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## Homeboy (Jan 14, 2011)

As a Carwin fan i really hope he takes this one. I think his gameplan should be similar to Mir fight. He should put JDS against the cage where JDS cant move away from him and do some dirty boxing and maybe land something good and KO him.


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

As a fan of both of these guys, i think JDS is going to have a boxing show even if Carwin is going to have better cardio. I felt that when he was weighing in at 265 and showing up at 275 he could have taken JDS down and imposed his will, but now that it will probably be a boxing match i just dont see JDS losing.


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## mattandbenny (Aug 2, 2007)

JDS all the way for me. He's looked so dominant in all his fights, how can you back against him. Carwin has also looked impressive before he gassed, although he got rocked by Wain and Gonzaga. 

Intrigued to see how a leaner Carwin looks, i think it is a good move in the long term, but JDS will overpower him with a 1st round KO.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> I see this fight looking more or less like a boxing match, in which JDS would have a clear technical advantage. *Also, Carwin has shown weakness in losing while JDS is undefeated *and Carwin took the fight on short notice meaning he may not be as prepared.


Well actually JDS has a loss as well.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

JDS quite handily imo. Carwin will not land that one punch, and that's the only real chance I give him.


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

I had a dream last night about this fight, and i NEVER dream about up coming fights. In the dream Carwin knocked JDS out in the first round, and it was a brutal ko... Before the dream i thought JDS would take this via stoppage in the second round. I guess we will find on Saturday night.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Another factor in this fight is that JDS has a better chin than Carwin. More skilled, bigger, younger, faster, fitter, tougher... all points to another JDS smiting but Carwin should never be overlooked, he's like a Silverback with 12-bores strapped to each arm.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

The only thing is that JDS is still an anomaly to me. It's not a question that he has incredible stand up, but all he seems comfortable doing is punching and he looks uncomfortable otherwise. I don't think a tired out and battered Roy Nelson hitting him really counts as "testing his chin" but who knows. He could have a fantastic chin for all we know, or a weak one.

Still though, I can't see Carwin winning even though I want him to soooo bad. In contrast to his training partner Nate Marquardt Carwin's offensive wrestling isn't that good but his defensive wrestling is pretty decent. I don't see Carwin taking JDS down, or keeping him on his back too long should he do so. JDS' speed will be the deciding factor and he'll move in and out of Carwin like lightning and get the stoppage.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Dos Santos either picks Carwin apart standing or Carwin employs his wrestling and dirty boxing to press Dos Santos up against the fence and KO's him similar to how he did Mir. Leaning towards Dos Santos but Carwin is one of those guys that can finish a fight at any time with his power.


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## peanuts40 (Mar 20, 2011)

Ah i earlier said that JDS will win but damn.......i have been thinking alot about this and i am really having trouble picking a winner.......Really want Carwin to win so i'll just go ahead and say Shane wins by TKO.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

A lot of people are giving Carwin a chance because of his punching power, but JDS has power to end the fight at any point too. That coupled with his superior striking skills really makes it a no-brainer in the stand up; JDS should destroy him.

I'd give Carwin more chance against someone with JDS' skills but less power, because he could eat shots to land some and take as along about it as needed. He can't do that at any point in this fight because he will get knocked out, IMO Carwin needs to utilize his wrestling, take JDS down and try for some GnP.


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## Thunder1 (Aug 16, 2008)

"but JDS has power to end the fight at any point too.'

He sure didn't display that against Nelson.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

JDS knocks people out with beautifully executed punches that are a boxers wet dream.

Carwin knocks people out just by touching their chin, correctly thrown or not.

The big thing that throws me in this fight is the fact that Gonzaga cracked Carwin. Carwin's recovery is one of legend already, but still if Gonzaga can do it then JDS probably can as well.

Hell, we may have a double KO here. I bet Carwin, but if anyone is surprised by the winner then you are a fool. This fight is the epitome of "who the **** knows".


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

JDS via not standing in front of Carwin with his hands low. I see this fight probably ending up with either JDS side stepping Carwin's mediocre striking technique and knocking his head off or Carwin gassing and JDS beating on him for the entire fight.


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## A Rich Ace (May 1, 2008)

Technically, JDS is the heavy favorite. I just don't know if he can make it past the first round. Carwin is explosive, and is an opponent like none that JDS has fought in the past. If it goes past round one, then it's JDS, but anything sooner than that....Carwin takes it.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

cdtcpl said:


> JDS knocks people out with beautifully executed punches that are a boxers wet dream.
> 
> Carwin knocks people out just by touching their chin, correctly thrown or not.
> 
> ...


Quoted for absolute truth!

I'm rooting for Carwin but this could go either way.


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## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

I appreciate the logic behind those picking JDS. On the surface, I have no idea who will win, and its a pick em, but I have a nagging feeling inside that Carwin may land a shot and take out the KO/TKO victory in the first round.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> "but JDS has power to end the fight at any point too.'
> 
> He sure didn't display that against Nelson.


That's not a very well thought out response is it. He didn't finish one fight, so that means he lacks power? Nelson has a granite skull, and he got sat down countless times in that fight.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Junior dos Santos by front kick.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Junior dos Santos by front kick.


LOLZ

If Seagal has taught JDS some of his "deadly stuff", and JDS wins via some form of front kick... I will p*ss my pants.


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

I really don't care who wins!

carwin will murder every heavyweight in the world 90% of the time... only gods might can keep him from landing, call it luck whatever you want... Lesnar got lucky that carwin was over excited and that was gods gift to him, i dont think JDS will get that kind of blessing


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## c-dub (Nov 18, 2010)

I think JDS will know to avoid Carwins hands, but I don't know if he'll be able too, a leaner Carwin might move faster than we've seen before and he has that power. JDS is a great fighter, but the nutt-hugging for a so far one-demensional fighter needs to quit. JDS has fought mostly cans, Carwin has beatin a former UFC champ and many contenders, and lost only to the champion himself. EVERY other fight was over in the 1st round. That says something to me, it says JDS is goin to sleep . Now let the hating begin. *claps hands*


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## GriffinFanKY (Oct 22, 2007)

Carwin watch out for the face kick please. This a defenition of a toss up the striking of Dos Santos is more technical but Carwin has massive power. Cheering for Carwin but wont be suprised with who wins


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I was sure JDS would take this at first but after thinking about it and re-watching some fights, Im not too sure there is as huge of a speed advantage for JDS as I thought there was. I think Carwin is quick enough and has a good enough chin to counter and win some exchanges at like 3 to 1 in JDS's favor and I think with Carwins power that's enough. At the least he'll have to show Carwin more respect than he gave Nelson and he'll need to be watching for the TD. That might change how aggressive he is striking.

I think Carwin's stand up is much better than Roys Nelson's and so is his wrestling, that to me means he's probably going to land more punches than Roy did and be more of a threat to take him down. 

JDS better be more than just the more technical striker, he better be able to land some good combo's and KO Carwin because if he cant get the KO I think Carwin will.


P.S. This should be a five round fight.


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## sg160187 (Apr 11, 2010)

We could be in for a real treat of a fight tonight possibly KOTN. Both good strikers in their own respects.

Hopefully Carwin has done some major work on his cardio! Saying that he didn't look as 'bulked up' at the weigh in, I don't know if thats just the camera angle but looks like he has trimmed off a bit hopefully it will help his cardio.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Carwin won't be a cardio machine, it takes more than shedding 10lbs for your body to work for longer. Having said that, the 1st round against Lesnar was particularly draining and it was a huge event for Carwin, so I don't judge too much from it. JDS can undoubtedly fight longer though.

Rogan, 'He's out, he's out! Front kick to the face! Wow!'
Goldie, 'Oh my, it came from nowhere! Oh - My - God'


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

His cardio should be fine.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> I hope JDS takes this, but the only thing I'm 100% confident in this fight is that someone is going to sleep.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if Carwin implements a gameplan, it will also be interesting to see how he handles going more than 1 round if it gets that far.


The odds of this fight going the distance have to be astronomical - just no way. It's been said before, but I think Carwin's going to come out with bombs and try to push JDS against the fence and go to work. If JDS can stay on his feet, weather the storm and make it to the second round, Carwin will gas about 1 minute into the 2nd round and JDS will put on a kickboxing clinic.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

mattandbenny said:


> JDS all the way for me. He's looked so dominant in all his fights, how can you back against him. Carwin has also looked impressive before he gassed, although he got rocked by Wain and Gonzaga.
> 
> Intrigued to see how a leaner Carwin looks, i think it is a good move in the long term, but JDS will overpower him with a 1st round KO.


I actually think Carwin looked a little "deflated" to me (compared to other fights) and it might work against him, we'll see.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

SM33 said:


> Carwin won't be a cardio machine, it takes more than shedding 10lbs for your body to work for longer. Having said that, the 1st round against Lesnar was particularly draining and it was a huge event for Carwin, so I don't judge too much from it. JDS can undoubtedly fight longer though.
> 
> Rogan, 'He's out, he's out! Front kick to the face! Wow!'
> Goldie, 'Oh my, it came from nowhere! Oh - My - God'


Cut to Steven Seagal: "We've been working on that kick for awhile now."


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...This will off the freakin' hook! Carwin coming in under 260 is impressive for a guy that has to cut just to make 265. For certain Greg Jackson and Co., have worked extensively on Shane's cardio but will it be enough to go 15 minutes if it does? JDS showed he could pace himself all three like he did with Nelson. Both predict a KO and this will be a barnburner unless Carwin uses his horsepower wrestling to take JDS down. Easier said than done. JDS has awesome TDD and when he's taken down, he springs right back up to his feet like a cat. If JDS fights Carwin the way Cain fought Lesnar using his TDD, handspeed and the best boxing in the UFC HW division, he should win. It would be another shocker if this fight went all three. I think whoever lands first and badly rocks the other guy, the fight will be over quick. Both guys know how to finish---*within the 1st round*. Whoever gets dropped will get swarmed on. Game over. Good deal on Joe Silva getting Carwin to take Brock's place. Besides, it's a more competitive fight now...

*P.S. Turn up the volume when JDS & Carwin start engaging. There will be some serious thuds!...:thumbsup: *


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

It's hard to not pick Dos Santos in this fight considering Carwin hasn't fought in a year, has shown bad conditioning, and has been in trouble standing against mediocre strikers. If memory serves me correctly, he had to take Neil Wain down because he was struggling when standing with him, of course that was a long while ago so it's hard to take into consideration. Although, he got rocked by Gonzaga when they fought which he then made irrelevant with that power of his. When has Dos Santos struggled when standing with a great striker, let alone a mediocre one? I think that Dos Santos is easily a better striker than Carwin, but Carwin evens the odds with that power of his.

Dos Santos has power and could knock Carwin out as well. People like to use his fight against Roy Nelson to say that he lacks power, but they must have forgotten about his other fights in the UFC. Dos Santos definitely has power, maybe not as much as Carwin, but then again, who does in the heavyweight division? Dos Santos still packs a punch himself and has the ability to end Carwin's night early.

This fight could go either way, I think that Dos Santos should be favored when you factor everything in, but with the power these guys have, it could be anyones night.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

*What if JDS v Carwin goes to the ground??*

So both JDS and Carwin are knockout artists who like to bang, and it's assumed that this fight might look like a boxing match, but what if it goes to the ground? I for one would like to see a little ground fighting mixed in to this fight, but what would it look like? 

Who winds up in top position?
Does JDS work for a sub from the guard or try to stand up?
Has Carwin ever pulled guard in his life?
Could JDS sub Carwin?
Would Carwin work GNP or stand back up?


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Ok if it does go to the ground, which i can see Greg Jackson maybe going for that because he is a good game plan maker and he knows that JDS is mainly a Stand Up guy.

But im confident in JDS TDD and i think Carwin will try a couple times, and i think he will pay for it, and i see him constantly trying to mix in striking to make his TD's less obvious but i dont see it making a big enough difference.

I have JDS KO 2nd round because i think Carwin will tire himself trying to take JDS down, and i see him taking to many shots, and than by second round he should be finished


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Truth is no one knows, but I do think Carwin will take him down so it's going to be fun to find out.

I think Carwin will dominate JDS, I just don't think a few years grappling can compete with a career of wrestling.

We will see, so pumped for this fight :thumb02:


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Hiro said:


> Truth is no one knows, but I do think Carwin will take him down so it's going to be fun to find out.
> 
> I think Carwin will dominate JDS, I just don't think a few years grappling can compete with a career of wrestling.
> 
> We will see, so pumped for this fight :thumb02:


Yeah its hard because people are naturally good at certain things so its hard to compare or measure how fast some people can improve in certain areas.

I see it not lasting long enough on the ground for the ground game to matter, and i think JDS is a better stand up guy so i give it to him.

Especially judging how Carwin couldn't handle the punch Gonzaga put on him, he crumbled and i know JDS can hit harder


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Would be interesting to see these guy's on the ground. Could you imagine Shane Carwin pulling guard?


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

I think if Carwin gets him up against the fence he will take JDS down, and the odds will swing in his favor because of his wrestling. I haven't seen either guy spend much time on the ground but we know Carwin's got a solid wrestling background, and JDS has some nasty looking ears so you'd have to think he's put in some mat time....very pumped for this fight, too!


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

This is such a tough fight to call.

I see Carwin winning, though. He's just so damn powerful in his punches. He has good enough standup to tag Santos a few times, and honestly, it only takes 1 solid strike and it's over.

I think the fight can go either way, but if I were betting I'd put it on Carwin because of his pure raw power and I think it'll put Santos away.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Will Carwin have enough speed for a takedown or will it be telegraphed like Hamil's are? Will JDS be able to get up if Carwin takes him down? Will JDS be able to stuff his TDs? 

No one knows a thing. Brock was supposed to test JDS's ground game/TDD, I believe Brock has better TDs then Carwin anyway. 

I hope this fight at least answers some questions about both fighters so we don't talk about this the whole time leading up to the Cain fight.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Carwin has terrible, slow stand up. The very slim chance I give him here is by outwrestling Junior.


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## A Rich Ace (May 1, 2008)

Machida Karate said:


> Especially judging how Carwin couldn't handle the punch Gonzaga put on him, he crumbled and i know JDS can hit harder


If Carwin couldn't handle the punch from Gonzaga, then why is it that Gonzaga was the one that couldn't remember where he was after the fight?


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

People do realize that Carwin is mostly Grudge right? His head trainer is Trevor Wittman.

Anyway, if this fight goes to the ground, I'd probably give Junior the advantage, I think he might have something for Carwin, but his ground game is a mystery, obviously though if he's training with Big Nog, he will more than likely have an advantage over Carwin.


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## A Rich Ace (May 1, 2008)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> People do realize that Carwin is mostly Grudge right? His head trainer is Trevor Wittman.
> 
> Anyway, if this fight goes to the ground, I'd probably give Junior the advantage, I think he might have something for Carwin, but his ground game is a mystery, obviously though if he's training with Big Nog, he will more than likely have an advantage over Carwin.


I agree that working with Nog helps JDS out a lot, but the only thing that really doesn't sell me on JDS is not knowing how he will be able to control his opponent from the ground. If he can prevent Carwin from landing any solid strikes and making any passes, then I agree. If he controls Carwin's posture from his back, then he'll probably catch him in a submission.


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## peanuts40 (Mar 20, 2011)

Seriously so pumped for this fight...been waiting to use this....it will come


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

I was just cheering for a good fight until I seen the stupid WWE shit Shane Carwin said during the lead up to the fight.


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## Homeboy (Jan 14, 2011)

I think the only way its going to the ground is by someone getting rocked. I think both guys are confident enough in their standup that they prefer to keep it standing .


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

there will be no ground game. Carwin will shove JDS into the cage and TKO him like he did Mir in the first round, guaranteed. JDS has nowhere near the strength to fend off Carwin if this is his plan. JDS has one punch to win when Carwin closes the gap. This fight probably won't even last one minute. See you all in 2 hours.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Carwin via TKO round one, book it. This is a pretty clear cut fight.


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## Homeboy (Jan 14, 2011)

Its on !!! raise01:


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Carwin has good taste in music... Eminem - Till I Collapse

Kinda funny though, seeing how he literally collapsed against Brock.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

rabakill said:


> Carwin via TKO round one, book it. This is a pretty clear cut fight.


Hoping for the same thing:thumb02:

Nice to see an influx of OG posters the last few days. Welcome back.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

And will literally collapse again tonight after Junior's fist connects with his face.


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## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

Let's go JDS! He gonna make Carwin look slow out there. Carwin coming off a long layoff is not a good thing either. Should be a good fight.


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

I never get tired of Rocky soundtrack.:thumb02:


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## Redline7 (Mar 28, 2010)

This such a good match up, I'm curious if Carwin still has as much power. 

War JDS!


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

This isn't Brock vs Carwin...


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Should have been stopped he got hit with like 12 straight punches while not defending.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Junior Dos Santos is a much better fighter than Shane Carwin...


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## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

Carwin is a tough dude. Herb gave him a big chance there. Good TDD from JDS. Good fight so far.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Good God, I'm not a dos Santos fan and I hope he never holds the belt, but this is one of the worst outclassings I've ever seen.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Big props for Carwin on the improved cardio- he's getting beaten up but is no where near gassing out. 


He needs to stop trading and try and get JDS down.​


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Did anyone else notice Carwin was idk if he was tapping or pointing but it kind of looked like he tapped a bit


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Very impressed that Carwin showed up with a gas tank. 

and how the hell did he survive the beating and that head kick???


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

If this fight actually goes the distance....


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Sousa said:


> Did anyone else notice Carwin was idk if he was tapping or pointing but it kind of looked like he tapped a bit


Nah that was his arm flailing around due to being hit lol


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Dos Santos is ****ing him up.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm turning the TV off, if I watch dos Santos get his hand raised I may go into labor. Great fight card but absolutely awful in terms of who I wanted to win.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

What an ass beating.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

War JDS.

Awesome. Domination.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Dos Santos was too fast, too strong, and too skilled for Carwin. But Carwin has extreme heart and toughness and his gas tank was much better this time around


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Nah that was his arm flailing around due to being hit lol


lol it was from the first round when JDS had his back sort of. It looked weird idk I'd have to see it again

Anyways great takedowns very thunderous even though Carwin was gassed as hell lol


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Gentlemen. The greatest fight in heavyweight history awaits.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I'm waiting for the 30-27 carwin.

It looks like around 240-245 is the best weight for HW. You can have really good strength and decent cardio and speed.


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## Homeboy (Jan 14, 2011)

Sad day... Was rooting for carwing bot JDS took it in a fair fight so props to him.


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## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

Carwin looking like ragged out Mark Coleman


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Ari said:


> I'm turning the TV off, if I watch dos Santos get his hand raised I may go into labor. Great fight card but absolutely awful in terms of who I wanted to win.


Why don't you like JDS? He's such a nice guy and a great, exciting fighter.


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## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

Very impressive performance by JDS. I hope that shuts up everyone that said JDS can't get up from takedowns. That title fight is going to be interesting. We all saw what Kongo did to Cain on the feet.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

So....JDS is right back where he was...getting a shot at Cain.

Nice.


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

A complete outclassing. Really looking forward to Cain v JDS (again hopefully).


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Junior Takin' Cain's Belt!


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## A Rich Ace (May 1, 2008)

It's too bad. I don't feel like JDS stands a chance against Cain. JDS is very one demensional.


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## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Gentlemen. The greatest fight in heavyweight history awaits.


I'm very excited for that title fight. It's gonna be damn good!


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Carwin showed a ton of heart though completely out-classed. Brock should be thankful he wasn't facing JDS and hope to never face him down the road.


The only thing that sucks about the JDS-Cain match-up is that Cain is coming off the long layoff with the injury.

If they are both 100% it should be an amazing fight.​


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

What a BS call! I had Carwin winning this 29-28. :sarcastic09:


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Great great fight props to my boy Carwin for the display of Heart. Dude seemed slow for some reason though. Just hope he recovers ok.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

I thought Carwin would use his wrestling more & do a better job keeping JDS off his feet. 

Good win for JDS!


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

A Rich Ace said:


> It's too bad. I don't feel like JDS stands a chance against Cain. JDS is very one demensional.


If JDS keeps the fight standing, his 'one dimension' is going to put Cain out. And I think we can safely say this man's TDD is the real deal. That no one can get the man to the ground is why we only ever see one fragment of Junior's abilities on display. I'm going to go ahead and call it... Cain won't be able to take JDS down, and he'll be put to sleep in his feeble attempts at doing so.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Brock would put on a better performance!


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> Brock would put on a better performance!


At eating punches and doing like a turtle?!!

Agreed!


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## Redline7 (Mar 28, 2010)

Ugh, I don't know if I'll be able to stand watching Junior and Cain fight. I don't want to see either of them lose. It should be a great fight, though.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

so happy with the result, finally will get to see the only HW at the UFC I have wanted to see for so long.


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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

I know JDS is fast, but Carwin looked real slow. I mean big country landed alot more on JDS than Carwin. A good fight but not a great showing from Carwin. JDS looks pretty solid all round and i'd put him as a slight favourite against Cain. But we'll see.


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

Brock obviously would have had a better chance imo.

I will still go all in on JDS winning vs Cain, i still think Cain is overrated.


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## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

Awesome fight. Would love to see Shanes face tomorrow. JDS vs Caini s going to be crazy. I still think Cain takes it. He's a different wrestler compared to Carwin. Faster and more put together takedown attempts.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> If JDS keeps the fight standing, his 'one dimension' is going to put Cain out.
> 
> I think we can safely say this man's TDD is the real deal.


Yeah, Gabe, Nelson, and now Carwin all of those fights showed it is hard to both take him down and keep him down and the way he was just power doubling Carwin at the end was impressive. I've had JDS one and Cain two since before Brock/Carwin. They were clearly just worlds better than everyone from a skill standpoint outside of Overeem.



anderton46 said:


> I know JDS is fast, but Carwin looked real slow. I mean big country landed alot more on JDS than Carwin. A good fight but not a great showing from Carwin. JDS looks pretty solid all round and i'd put him as a slight favourite against Cain. But we'll see.


That is because JDS had never been out of the first round and gassed himself out going so hard for the finish. He fought smarter this time around.


----------



## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

I think Cain vs.Junior will end up as a boring decision.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm a big Carwin fan but I think he hit his glass ceiling. He caught Gonzaga after getting beaten up and he's possibly the worst style matchup for Frank Mir. I was really impressed that he showed up with a gas tank and was able to take that much punishment, but even at 36 he looked really slow. He's not Randy, Hendo, or even really Aaron Simpson.

Still though, I hope Cain beats JDS' face in though after watching that crap tonight I doubt that will happen. Jon Jones, Anderson, Aldo, and JDS as champs will make me a sad, sad woman.

At the same time though, great preformance by JDS. Not at al lwhat I expected.
I'll give him credit where credit is due, and he showed that he's definitely a top 3 heavyweight.


Congrats to JDS and Khoveraki.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> If JDS keeps the fight standing, his 'one dimension' is going to put Cain out. And I think we can safely say this man's TDD is the real deal. That no one can get the man to the ground is why we only ever see one fragment of Junior's abilities on display. I'm going to go ahead and call it... Cain won't be able to take JDS down, and he'll be put to sleep in his feeble attempts at doing so.


Cain will definitely be able to take Junior down.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

OMG! Another forum poster with a magic crystal ball!


----------



## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Cains going to **** his shit up. Carwins never had good wrestling.


----------



## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Anyone saying Brock would have stood a better chance is smoking something I wish I could get my hands on.

Are you serious? Brock can't take a punch and JDS would have wrecked him just like Cain did. That's laughable.​


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Ari said:


> I'm a big Carwin fan but I think he hit his glass ceiling. He caught Gonzaga after getting beaten up and he's possibly the worst style matchup for Frank Mir. I was really impressed that he showed up with a gas tank and was able to take that much punishment, but even at 36 he looked really slow. He's not Randy, Hendo, or even really Aaron Simpson.
> 
> Still though, I hope Cain beats JDS' face in though after watching that crap tonight I doubt that will happen. Jon Jones, Anderson, Aldo, and JDS as champs will make me a sad, sad woman.
> 
> ...


Why don't you like JDS? He's such a nice guy and a great, exciting fighter.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Dos Santos shit himself after he called Cain out and Rogan told him he was behind him.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

You cant underestimate Cain at all. Sure he's coming off an injury but he's by far a much better wrestler and has better takedowns than Carwin and Brock. Probably the best takedowns in the division. JDS has good TDD but it WILL be tested very well against Cain. I think JDS can win it but Cain wont jump the gun right away and shoot for a takedown


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Ari said:


> I'm a big Carwin fan but I think he hit his glass ceiling. He caught Gonzaga after getting beaten up and he's possibly the worst style matchup for Frank Mir. I was really impressed that he showed up with a gas tank and was able to take that much punishment, but even at 36 he looked really slow. He's not Randy, Hendo, or even really Aaron Simpson.
> 
> Still though, I hope Cain beats JDS' face in though after watching that crap tonight I doubt that will happen. Jon Jones, Anderson, Aldo, and JDS as champs will make me a sad, sad woman.
> 
> ...



:thumb03:



Head kicks, RNC attempt, two power double leg takedowns, nearly a TKO stoppage, nearly a doctor's stoppage, leg kicks, and wicked take-down defense on show in this fight. With Junior's resume right now it's hard to say he isn't the clear #1 heavyweight and I predict the rankings will agree. 


Cain should get a warmup fight because going in off an injury with cage rust against JDS is going to leave people with too many doubts.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Why don't you like JDS? He's such a nice guy and a great, exciting fighter.





Roflcopter said:


> Why don't you like JDS? He's such a nice guy and a great, exciting fighter.


LOL man...

Leave Ari alone...

PS: look at her sig...


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

What a joke of a fight. JDS taking a page out of GSPS's book and playing it safe. 

Ah well, at least Butterbeans amazing boxing was finally exposed.

Cain will absolutley steam roll through JDS and the rest of the UFC HW divison with ease.

Expect Cain vs JDS to look like Cain vs Big Ben Rothwell. A one sided mauling.

Bring in The Reem already.

Edit: After reading some of the responses it seems that Cain is still highly under rated for some unknown reason.

Listen. JDS, Carwin, Lesnar and who ever else, none of them are in the same league as Cain's. Velasquez is a truly special fighter. The pace he sets at HW, none of the other fighter's can manage with. He will break down each and every one of them with over whelming, constant pressure.

He will take down Dos Santos at will, maul him on the ground and hang in with him on the feet.

Cain is a top 3 MMA wrestler, up there with GSP and Jon Jones.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> What a joke of a fight. JDS taking a page out of GSPS's book and playing it safe.
> 
> Ah well, at least Butterbeans amazing boxing was finally exposed.
> 
> ...


I love when leaving a man's facial tissue resembling ground beef translates into 'playing it safe'. As for 'joke of a fight'... lol... just lol. I've got nothing against you McK, but you do say some foolish shite. I'm willing to sig bet on Cain vs. JDS when the time comes. That is if you've got the stones.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> What a joke of a fight. JDS taking a page out of GSPS's book and playing it safe.
> 
> Ah well, at least Butterbeans amazing boxing was finally exposed.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the laugh. :thumbsup:​


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

limba said:


> LOL man...
> 
> Leave Ari alone...
> 
> PS: look at her sig...


Man, I don't get it.

I'm not saying you have to like JDS, but to root against him and hope he fails? :confused03:

It seems so misguided and strange, I can't think of a weirder person to blindly hate. It'd be like hating Wanderlei Silva or a prime Cro Cop or Sakuraba or someone like that, or even Cain.

Personally, I don't get why people(including Ari, again, surprise)dislike Aldo, but I could see a little because he said he was the best or something before. And people like ***** De Amigo say things like Jose is arrogant for saying he didn't see any problems with the Hominick match up, despite Jose being extremely humble and gracious in VICTORY, and not making any excuses despite everyone knowing he wasn't 100 percent.

BUT WHATEVER


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## A Rich Ace (May 1, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> If JDS keeps the fight standing, his 'one dimension' is going to put Cain out. And I think we can safely say this man's TDD is the real deal. That no one can get the man to the ground is why we only ever see one fragment of Junior's abilities on display. I'm going to go ahead and call it... Cain won't be able to take JDS down, and he'll be put to sleep in his feeble attempts at doing so.


It's okay. Cain is usually the underdog, and I believe a lot of people said that if Brock kept Cain on his feet, then it would be his fight. The champ will find a way. Every time I've assumed that he's outmatched, he wins. This fight won't be any different.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

BrutalKO said:


> ...This will off the freakin' hook! Carwin coming in under 260 is impressive for a guy that has to cut just to make 265. For certain Greg Jackson and Co., have worked extensively on Shane's cardio but will it be enough to go 15 minutes if it does? JDS showed he could pace himself all three like he did with Nelson. Both predict a KO and this will be a barnburner unless Carwin uses his horsepower wrestling to take JDS down. Easier said than done. JDS has awesome TDD and when he's taken down, he springs right back up to his feet like a cat. If JDS fights Carwin the way Cain fought Lesnar using his TDD, handspeed and the best boxing in the UFC HW division, he should win. It would be another shocker if this fight went all three. I think whoever lands first and badly rocks the other guy, the fight will be over quick. Both guys know how to finish---*within the 1st round*. Whoever gets dropped will get swarmed on. Game over. Good deal on Joe Silva getting Carwin to take Brock's place. Besides, it's a more competitive fight now...
> 
> *P.S. Turn up the volume when JDS & Carwin start engaging. There will be some serious thuds!...:thumbsup: *


...Not too shabby of a prediction eh? Most of us picked JDS to win but man I didn't expect to see Shane get mauled. Junior's jabs to Carwin's body were effective. Smart gameplan. They seemed to keep Shane at bay. Stout's overhand left couldn't have hit the button any better. BING!. Man- Edwards was out cold. Nice KO for Sam. Good night of fights...


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> What a joke of a fight. JDS taking a page out of GSPS's book and playing it safe.
> 
> Ah well, at least Butterbeans amazing boxing was finally exposed.
> 
> ...


THE TRUTH!!!!!


----------



## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Carwin got exposed tonight, no two ways about it.

It's still hard to tell how good JDS' TDD really is, because Carwin's takedowns seem pretty useless for a collegiate wrestler.

I thought Carwin might ride JDS for 3 rounds but I also questioned his wrestling, seems I was right to do so. I still think Cain will have JDS on his back numerous times.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

I've watched both of these fighters grow up in the cage so this was a difficult fight to watch. I had to disassociate myself from the outcome and just enjoy the slugfest.

JDS impressed me and I enjoyed his performance, Carwin had that one punch to turn things around but JDS denied him those opportunities. That was a vicious beating Carwiin took near the end of the 1st and I figured he wouldn't recover enough to mount a threatening charge after that...the dude gasses while winning a fight.

He showed amazing heart, but he couldn't really go for it from there. Good for JDS because he honestly has deserved the shot since before all of this drama unfolded.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Hiro said:


> Carwin got exposed tonight, no two ways about it.
> 
> It's still hard to tell how good JDS' TDD really is, because Carwin's takedowns seem pretty useless for a collegiate wrestler.
> 
> I thought Carwin might ride JDS for 3 rounds but I also questioned his wrestling, seems I was right to do so. I still think Cain will have JDS on his back numerous times.


Carwin's MMA wrestling is an absolute ******* joke.

And what is with this rubbish about Carwin showing "heart"? Being a human jab punching bag means you show heart? Heart is when a fighter knows he is beaten, knows he is out classed but keeps coming forwards and attacking, keep's fighting with everything he's got.

Cariwn shown none of that. He just stood there and took a jabbing to death.

The HW division is so poor.


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## saize19 (Jun 12, 2011)

Mckeever said:


> What a joke of a fight. JDS taking a page out of GSPS's book and playing it safe.
> 
> Ah well, at least Butterbeans amazing boxing was finally exposed.
> 
> ...


You also seem to be underestimating JDS and don't like to give credit to what he's done.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Carwin's MMA wrestling is an absolute ******* joke.


More like non-existant.

PS: "shaved-heads-blood-face-buddies"?!!


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Sousa said:


> You cant underestimate Cain at all. Sure he's coming off an injury but he's by far a much better wrestler and has better takedowns than Carwin and Brock. Probably the best takedowns in the division. JDS has good TDD but it WILL be tested very well against Cain. I think JDS can win it but Cain wont jump the gun right away and shoot for a takedown


The thing with Cain is he learns & improves his skills at a scary speed, he just soaks things up like a sponge. The layoff will undoubtedly set him back a bit but I don't think it's going to be a significant factor in the fight, he'll be ready and he'll bring it. It's gonna be one hell of a great fight.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I love when leaving a man's facial tissue resembling ground beef translates into 'playing it safe'. As for 'joke of a fight'... lol... just lol. I've got nothing against you McK, but you do say some foolish shite. I'm willing to sig bet on Cain vs. JDS when the time comes. That is if you've got the stones.


I'll sig bet you. I really don't understand how you guys can be impressed with these apparent top tier Heavyweight's. Their skill level is embarrassing.

I've long awaited Shane Carwin to finally be exposed and finally it happened. He can't box for shit and he can't wrestle effectively in MMA.

JDS, a one dimensional average boxer with decent take down defense. He almost got choked out and swept by Carwin at the end (lol).

What's impressive about any of these guys, I just don't see it. I see the division as a joke. The only two guys that really impress me are Cain and Overeem and Overeem is still unproven, but he'll prove his worth in the GP.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Everyone already knows the HWs are a joke.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Everyone already knows the HWs are a joke.


they just have a different set of skills. what do you expect? 

You honestly expect these giants to be as fluid and have cardio as good as the smaller guys?

what do you expect, and what makes them a joke? enlighten me.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> they just have a different set of skills. what do you expect?
> 
> You honestly expect these giants to be as fluid and have cardio as good as the smaller guys?
> 
> what do you expect, and what makes them a joke? enlighten me.


Maybe not have the same cardio as the lighter fighter's (that's what makes Cain special), but I expect them to be technically sound in all areas of the game, and well, they aren't.

On a technical level, the division is a joke.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I don't get what you guys are harping on JDS for. He damn near finished that fight in the first. Carwin is a scary, scary dude even when his back is against a wall, probably more so. I was honestly on the edge of my seat that whole fight. I thought it was great. Great show of technical striking by Junior.


EDIT: WHOA. Junior is an average boxer in MMA?

I'll just leave this here:










Someone seems bitter they didn't get to see their precious knock out


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> I don't get what you guys are harping on JDS for. He damn near finished that fight in the first. Carwin is a scary, scary dude even when his back is against a wall, probably more so. I was honestly on the edge of my seat that whole fight. I thought it was great. Great show of technical striking by Junior.
> 
> 
> EDIT: WHOA. Junior is an average boxer in MMA?
> ...


I'm not bitter, I've never rated Junior Dos Santos highly. I thought his boxing was exposed in the Nelson fight and Cro Cop fight's.

Okay, he's better than average. He's a decent MMA boxer, but he isn't some boxing guru like some people are led to believe.

Cain is a top three MMA wrestler (GSP, Jones, Cain, they are the best wrestlers in the game) and his stand up is even more diverse than Junior Dos Santo's. In fact I think his stand up is just as good, if not better than Junior's. 

JDS is completely outclassed in the wrestling department and on the feet, it's evens


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

I predicted that this fight was going to be a finish for one fighter or the other...

I was wrong.

I think that's because both of these guys proved tonight that not only can they dish it out, but they can take it as well. Well, Carwin proved he can take it.

Calling it heart is a bit of a stretch since he never really bum rushed JDS, but that's one tough bastard.

Oh and...



> On a technical level, the division is a joke.



You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but Cain Velasquez debunks that theory IMO. He's one of the most athletic and technically sound fighters on the roster. 

Dos Santos' striking is crisp, damaging and defensive in the most dangerous division where striking is concerned.

And Frank Mir and Big Nog's jui jitsu, regardless of what you think of them now also proves otherwise.

Hell, I'll even throw out Cro Cop's striking for the hell of it.

It's not a bunch of kimbo slices fighting each other all the time, then you'd be correct.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> JDS, a one dimensional average boxer with decent take down defense. *He almost got choked out and swept by Carwin at the end (lol).*


That is a gross overstatement......Carwin had not control over JDS' body to actually finish that choke, not to meniton he had his neck with one arm, I've yet to see someone finish a guillotine or any choke for that matter with one arm. And JDS rolled off Carwin after the bell and Shane didn't let go, that's why it looked like a sweep. Carwin wouldn't have done anything with that, it could have been at the four minute mark it wouldn't have mattered.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Roflcopter,

I don't really *hate* JDS or Aldo and I'll admit I was having a bit of a pregger moment. I've met Carwin in person twice, have a huge poster in our basement that he signed plus a picture of Carwin and I "staring eachother down" weigh-in style that he also signed. He's one of the nicest, most humble and kind man I've ever met. He's very down to earth and he cares about his friends, family, and fans. I got pissed watching him get his ass handed to him like that by a fighter I'm not a huge fan of. Sadly, the reason I don't like JDS or Aldo that much is purely by association. I think that JDS is pretty cocky, but you're right. He's exciting to watch and seems to be an okay guy. I'll give him all the credit in the world for tonight's preformance. He kicked Carwin's ass. I hated watching it, but he did a great job tonight. My respect for Aldo went way up after the Hominick fight. He made no bullshit excuses about "being sick" or whatever like his douchebag buddies Minotauro Nogueira and Anderson Silva do/did. He gave Hominick all the credit in the world despite absolutely dominating him for 4 rounds. I was impressed. But I'll still never root for hiim. I'll never root for the San Jose Sharks or the Anaheim Ducks even though Scott Neidermayer and Joe Thornton are two of my favorite players to watch.


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> I'm not bitter, I've never rated Junior Dos Santos highly. I thought his boxing was exposed in the Nelson fight and Cro Cop fight's.
> 
> Okay, he's better than average. He's a decent MMA boxer, but he isn't some boxing guru like some people are led to believe.
> 
> ...


How was his boxing exposed in the Nelson and CroCop fights? By completely ******* tooling both of them? One of them being a damn ex K-1 champion!? You're seriously saying this? For fucks sake he FINISHED CroCop by injury because he beat him BLIND! And Roy just ate knees from Mir that would've easily KO'd a horse! In no way was his boxing exposed there and in no way is Cain's striking even with his. His wrestling is damn sure better and his boxing, while good, is not on Junior's level IMO.


----------



## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

TraMaI said:


> How was his boxing exposed in the Nelson and CroCop fights? By completely ******* tooling both of them? One of them being a damn ex K-1 champion!? You're seriously saying this? For fucks sake he FINISHED CroCop by injury because he beat him BLIND! And Roy just ate knees from Mir that would've easily KO'd a horse! In no way was his boxing exposed there and in no way is Cain's striking even with his. His wrestling is damn sure better and his boxing, while good, is not on Junior's level IMO.


Isn't it amazing how unless you absolutely devastate your opponent in the cage and put them out cold you're a scrub as far as online forums are concerned most of the time. I swear no one ever talks about how good someone is if they are just outright better and outclass someone from bell to bell, which is exactly what JDS just did. But because it wasn't a highlight reel HOLY SHIT moment, you're a can that will get taken apart.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> How was his boxing exposed in the Nelson and CroCop fights? By completely ******* tooling both of them? One of them being a damn ex K-1 champion!? You're seriously saying this? For fucks sake he FINISHED CroCop by injury because he beat him BLIND! And Roy just ate knees from Mir that would've easily KO'd a horse! In no way was his boxing exposed there and in no way is Cain's striking even with his. His wrestling is damn sure better and his boxing, while good, is not on Junior's level IMO.


Cro cop hasn't been half the fighter he ever was since he first joined the UFC, everyone knows that.

Nelson landed several shots to JDS' dome throughout that fight, as did Mirko.

In the Nelson fight, Junior shown some pretty average defense and a low fighting IQ. Roy was blocking lot's of his shots with his high guard, yet JDS continued to head hunt over and over again when he should have been ripping the body shot's to make Nelson drop his hands, but, he didn't, instead he head hunted and was contiously just throwing hay makers. Granted a few of them landed, but I wasn't that impressed by his over all performance.

When I say exposed, you guys have to understand the context of me saying this. A lot of people are hailing JDS as the next HW champion (and have been for some time) and labelling him as some crazy, elite fighter. I don't see that in any part of his game.

I see a good striker who doesn't really shine and stand out greatly in any area. That's my opinion. When I look at elite fighter's like GSP, Jones, Andy, etc, you can see that true greatness they all posses. I don't see that from JDS. I see a one dimensional, solid striker......and that's it. I don't think he'll ever be championship calibre.

When I look at Cain, I see an outstanding MMA wrestler who has the ability to take down and beat up any one in the division. He seems to improve each and every fight at a scary pace. He just has that x-factor.

I don't think JDS is even in his league.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

overeem and jds and a lot of strikeforce heavyweights can beat cain, kharitonov is no joke, fedor would be interesting, monson and cormier also interesting, werdum would probably be koed i think but not sure really, barnett i think could win. cain is not just going to steamroll everyone in his path especially since him and jones havent defended the belt once yet, i bring up jones because poeple are saying the same things about him


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Ari said:


> Roflcopter,
> 
> I don't really *hate* JDS or Aldo and I'll admit I was having a bit of a pregger moment. I've met Carwin in person twice, have a huge poster in our basement that he signed plus a picture of Carwin and I "staring eachother down" weigh-in style that he also signed. He's one of the nicest, most humble and kind man I've ever met. He's very down to earth and he cares about his friends, family, and fans. I got pissed watching him get his ass handed to him like that by a fighter I'm not a huge fan of. Sadly, the reason I don't like JDS or Aldo that much is purely by association. I think that JDS is pretty cocky, but you're right. He's exciting to watch and seems to be an okay guy. I'll give him all the credit in the world for tonight's preformance. He kicked Carwin's ass. I hated watching it, but he did a great job tonight. My respect for Aldo went way up after the Hominick fight. He made no bullshit excuses about "being sick" or whatever like his douchebag buddies Minotauro Nogueira and Anderson Silva do/did. He gave Hominick all the credit in the world despite absolutely dominating him for 4 rounds. I was impressed. But I'll still never root for hiim. I'll never root for the San Jose Sharks or the Anaheim Ducks even though Scott Neidermayer and Joe Thornton are two of my favorite players to watch.


Alright, that's fine. I thought you had it out for them. As for JDS being cocky, maybe, but if you watch his interviews he's pretty genuine and on TUF he was by far, one of the nicest guys I've seen. Also, I definitely understand why people don't like Black House, I myself can't stand Ed Soares. But Lyoto is a really nice guy, and Aldo is as well as JDS. Obviously the rest have some questionable character though. Especially Soares, I hate that guy.





Mckeever said:


> Cro cop hasn't been half the fighter he ever was since he first joined the UFC, everyone knows that.
> 
> Nelson landed several shots to JDS' dome throughout that fight, as did Mirko.
> 
> ...


Such flawed logic. and extremely biased.

Of course JDS has defensive flaws, no one is denying this, but he's still pretty damn good and it's not like Cro Cop was some scrub on the feet, even if he wasn't in his prime. He also has a concrete chin to take a lot of those shots. 

What's your excuse for Cain? He was pretty much knocked down and badly hurt TWICE by single punches from Kongo. By your own logic, Cain is an absolute scrub in the standup


----------



## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> On a technical level, the division is a joke.


Really? I could say that anyone under 170 their power is a joke. Sweeping generalization, nothing more. Heavyweights are never going to look like acrobats or gymnasts; they are never going to have the cardio gas tank of a Tour de France cyclist or NYC marathon champ.

Just like Jose Aldo is never going to be a 1st round draft pick for Defensive End on the Pittsburgh Steelers.


There ARE size limitations you know.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

JDS looked fantastic, how anyone can say he was playing it safe was laughable. He jabbed Carwins face into pulp and nearly finished him in the first, and rocked him a good few times. Overrated boxing? By being lightyears above every single one of his opponents on the feet? Yeah okay...

Brilliant showing by JDS. I can't wait for the Cain fight now, it's been a long time coming. Cain's wrestling will be the deciding factor I think.


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

JDS' boxing looked solid, but he was hesitant the last two rounds. I had it 30-26 for JDS. 

I think Brock would have had a better chance than Carwin in this fight. Brock would have been far bigger than Carwin this fight, and, although JDS would have clearly outstruck him, I think his wrestling and overall size would have made for a better fight. 

I think Cain would beat JDS if not coming off an injury. I'm not a lover of Cain by any means, and believe he's overrated at the moment, but I see Cain's cardio and wrestling something that will give JDS a hard time, especially in a 5 rounder. Coming off the injury w layoff time, I think the fight is going to be much more even. 

Lastly, I noticed Carwin did little w/ his right hand. I think he broke it defending those bombs in the 1st, and I think that changed the dynamic of this fight. Also, Carwin was complaining to the ref during the bombardment, so I think he caught a finger in the eye. 

Any of the above change the outcome of this fight? Only the odds, as JDS was a far better striker, but if Carwin's hand was broken, that took away the 1 punch KO we know he can do.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Carwin brought absolutely nothing to the table. I always thought the only thing he had going for him was ridiculous power and he proved that tonight. Hopefully he'll get Travis Browne next so Browne can get a big win on his record.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Some thoughts on this.

1. Carwin outweighed JDS by about 20 lbs during weigh ins. Yet, in the fight, JDS looked bigger and more massive than Carwin. Its possible Carwin's strength and conditioning isn't where it could be & hes carrying a lot of excess fat. Carwin didn't look noticeably smaller than Brock in their fight, but he looked noticeably smaller than JDS which was surprising.

2. Is Carwin training full time? I think he still has his day job. Don't know that he'll be able to cut it at the highest level unless he trains full time. Also, coming off an injury Carwin may not have been @ 100%.

3. Good fight!! JDS is fast for a heavyweight. Probably the fastest guy in the division in terms of hand speed and mobility. Hes definitely faster than Velasquez and I would say a better technical striker than Cain as well. Its scary how Mark Munoz and a few others can train wrestling at Blackhouse a few times, and suddenly every brazilian fighter will have excellent wrestling. Brazilians are awesome!


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

People acting like it's a surprise that Shane relied on timing and power need a fookin reality check. No one was EVER deluded. Carwin is just a likeable dude who kept winning. No one ever claimed he was the next Fedor or anything.

Not everything has to be so personal and hateful Im embarrassed to share the same forum with a lot people who are hating on these men who just risked their life's and health for you entertainment. Are you not amused? 

These guys went in trading bombs and neither man ever gave up. Not much more you could ask for. Im a HUGE Carwin fan, but he lost. AND THAT IS OK. 

People lose all the time it doesn't make them the worst person to ever live like some of you keyboard warriors are ready to declare.

Just remember that both Carwin and JDS would rip your heads from your spine without a second thought if you had to fight either of them. 

Show some god damned respect people. Jesus.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Alright, that's fine. I thought you had it out for them. As for JDS being cocky, maybe, but if you watch his interviews he's pretty genuine and on TUF he was by far, one of the nicest guys I've seen. Also, I definitely understand why people don't like Black House, I myself can't stand Ed Soares. But Lyoto is a really nice guy, and Aldo is as well as JDS. Obviously the rest have some questionable character though. Especially Soares, I hate that guy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really? Because all I read is how JDS will make Cain pay for his own lack of defense, whilst ignoring JDS' own defense.

The thing is JDS' striking is his bread and butter, that's supposed to be his x-factor and I don't think it's THAT good. Cain's MMA wrestling is much more impressive than Junior's boxing, AND Cain is solid striker too.

Cain has shown lack of defense in the past, I haven't tried to state otherwise, but his striking isn't even his main weapon. Cain seems to improve and learn so much after every single fight too. With Junior, it's more of the same.

JDS is good, but I'm really confident that The Reem would Uberknee him into oblivion and Cain would just rag doll him all over the octagon.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

i wanna see oveereem and kharitonov and barnett vs cain to be fully honest


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Did I watch the same fight as everyone else? Dos Santos looked incredible, he was even faster than his previous fights, he used more kicks and his kicks are HEAVY, he fought very smart and was very patient, and his ratio of strikes landed to strikes recieved was insane.

Whilst doing all that, he answered the big Q that everyone had about him; how he'd deal with being taken down or forced to the fence. Carwin's first move in the fight wss a takedown attempt and JDS consistantly shrugged him off - a strong, heavy wrestler, and even took him down twice! His TDD is so slippy and he circles off the fence very well, and he get's back to his feet with ease.

He dominated a guy who was supposed to be a huge challenge because of his wrestling, power and more high profile fight experience, but he could not touch JDS. I don't know what all this talk about JDS' boxing defense is about, he has great head movement and had not a mark on him at the end of the fight. Velasquez is a beast and very talented, but will have to be sharper and more clever in his approach to JDS because he is the smaller/less powerful man, and he will get hit.

Carwin vs Beltran anyone?


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

I enjoyed the fight a lot. Wasn't fabulous, but good none the less.

I still don't give JDS a chance against Cain. I agree with McKeever. Cain is something super special in my opinion.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Dos santos will dethrone cain.

Great performance by Junior and heart by carwin.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Emericanaddict said:


> People acting like it's a surprise that Shane relied on timing and power need a fookin reality check. No one was EVER deluded. Carwin is just a likeable dude who kept winning. No one ever claimed he was the next Fedor or anything.
> 
> Not everything has to be so personal and hateful Im embarrassed to share the same forum with a lot people who are hating on these men who just risked their life's and health for you entertainment. Are you not amused?
> 
> ...


Truth. This thread is no longer worth investing in. 

I'll simply shake my head at the level of ignorance and disrespect displayed by one or two of you and bow out.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Love the part where he was smashing Carwin in the dome and he looked at the ref pretty much saying "hey buddy do you see what I'm doing to this guy?" Lolz...priceless. 

Great heart though on Carwin's part. Sometimes I wonder how fighters can take multiple hard shots for multiple rounds and as you know sometimes it's just one precise shot on the button and it's game over even at FULL ENERGY. I think that's what makes Anderson and Machida so special. They're one of the few fighters who use precision shots to chop down their opponents rather than POWER SHOTS. 

I called it along with everybody else. JDS would face Cain for the title. Long time coming. There's no doubt JDS fought more quality opponents and had an incredibly tough road to get to the title shot X 2. I predict a FIVE ROUND WAR with both fighters giving it their all then a rematch down the line. Going with Junior!


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Truth. This thread is no longer worth investing in.
> 
> I'll simply shake my head at the level of ignorance and disrespect displayed by one or two of you and bow out.


There's no disrespect or ignorance just honesty and truth.

Shane Carwin is and always has been rubbish and JDS isn't in Cain's league.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

Carwin looked like an older gentleman in this fight, kind of reminded me of Coleman, I think losing the weight and steroids also took away his KO-power. I like JDS & believe he's the second best HW after Cain but I also don't think this proved much as Carwin looked slow & weak in both wrestling & boxing. Had he hit JDS on the chin like he did with his earlier size, who knows what would have happened.
The only way I see JDS beating Cain is if he's f-ed up from surgery/ringrust. If Cain coms in 100% he beats JDS 7/10.
Also lol if this was Brock instead of Carwin....oh how he would go fetal quick.


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## Liddell67 (Dec 13, 2007)

Big fan of both fighter's but I did suspect Dos Santos would outclass Carwin. 
Carwin comes across as a big guy with a big heart but just not enough technical ability.
In the end not sure if JDS broke sweat.
However JDS- CV.

No idea about JDS's ground game but on his feet I think he is the best technical HW striker. Plus was it me but did he actually look the bigger guy against Carwin.
Cain -great destruction of Lesner but remember Carwin destroyed Lesner in first round, just didn't have the skill or cardio to follow it up. JDS does.

I hope JDS wins but my MMA head tells me it might just be CV if he gets JDS down.

Either way

GREAT FIGHT to look forward too.

p.s. is it just me or is the HW division now the new LHW


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Carwin barley got off and I thought his striking looked sub par. Not that he has the best boxing but he seemed to be surprised by JDS's power and IMO it was the power of JDS that really changed Carwins chances.

If Carwin really wants to be a force he has a limited amount of time to do it in and he really needs to commit himself full time to mma.

I was a little disappointed, he failed to throw the right cross or any counter at times that I felt it could have changed the fight.

JDS looked good and he proved he can avoid big shots but I have always felt Carwins wrestling was a tad overrated. So I wont be surprised if JDS's TDD is now a little inflated too.


No_Mercy said:


> Love the part where he was smashing Carwin in the dome and he looked at the ref pretty much saying "hey buddy do you see what I'm doing to this guy?" Lolz...priceless.


Actually thats not what he was saying, in the press conference he straight up told the truth and said he knew he was gassing and was hoping the ref would stop it, he said he felt the ref did the right thing by telling him to keep fighting.



mmaswe82 said:


> Carwin looked like an older gentleman in this fight, kind of reminded me of Coleman, I think losing the weight and steroids also took away his KO-power.


JDS also stated that Carwin has the heaviest hands of anyone he's ever fought and that one of the punches made him dizzy. So I think your wrong.


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

WTF DUDE where is the knock out?? WTF...

JDS hits like a girl... what other HW tees off on his opponents all fight long and doesn't get a knock out?

Hooray for JDS! the new GSP of the HW division!

yes im trolling you


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

dsmjrv said:


> WTF DUDE where is the knock out?? WTF...
> 
> JDS hits like a girl... what other HW tees off on his opponents all fight long and doesn't get a knock out?
> 
> Hooray for JDS! the new GSP of the HW division!


Ok, I think MMAF should have some kind of punishment against ignorance.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

slapshot said:


> Carwin barley got off and I thought his striking looked sub par. Not that he has the best boxing but he seemed to be surprised by JDS's power and IMO it was the power of JDS that really changed Carwins chances.
> 
> If Carwin really wants to be a force he has a limited amount of time to do it in and he really needs to commit himself full time to mma.
> 
> ...


yes maybe, it might just be that JDS has a great chin, but I stick to the fact that Carwin didn't look himself. He usually presses forward alot & now he looked scared. It's like when he lost the size advantage he also lost the "bullying" advantage.


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

i think shane should get back up to size and stick to doing what he does best... i guess he thought the having some extra gas in his tank would give him more time to land a BOMB, but in reality he needs his size to get up close, clinch, and bully his way into a a dirty boxing slug fest... you don't sit there and swing with a guy who is faster and more technical than you and just hope to find a BOMB, you have to force them into you territory and make them eat that BOMB...

i feel that had he immediately put the pressure on JDS in the form of clinching and cage pressing, rather than just a takedown that he woulda been in better shape to find that first round KO...


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

dsmjrv said:


> WTF DUDE where is the knock out?? WTF...
> 
> JDS hits like a girl... what other HW tees off on his opponents all fight long and doesn't get a knock out?
> 
> ...


This post was so bad that Im suprised you even thought it was funny.




Do a better job next time you suck. =)


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

mmaswe82 said:


> yes maybe, it might just be that JDS has a great chin, but I stick to the fact that Carwin didn't look himself. He usually presses forward alot & now he looked scared. It's like when he lost the size advantage he also lost the "bullying" advantage.



Carwin didn't look "himself" because he was outclassed and threatened by the power of JDS. It happens so much in MMA. Someone doesn't look stellar because they're outclassed, all of a sudden they lost because they just weren't themselves.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

He was fighting scarred no doubt in my mind, JDS hurt him real bad in the first.

And he hurt JDS in the second but the difference was that JDS saw Carwin was hurt and pounced, Carwin just missed it.

Also the man has cardio all you people out there who say he dosent should go train, go get in a gym and learn so you know what the fighters are experiencing. 

Carwin had to breath out of his mouth because his nose was jacked and some fans might think thats not a big deal but the way you breath matters especially down the road in a decision fight.

The nose, the close to a KO beating, these things take a toll on fighters. I attribute all of the issues Carwin was having in one way or the other to JDS he really did look good.

Thats not to say he couldn't have done better, I think he had a lot of opportunity's he let go because he didn't want to trade with JDS and to me that says it was JDS's power that really changed the fight.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> Carwin didn't look "himself" because he was outclassed and threatened by the power of JDS. It happens so much in MMA. Someone doesn't look stellar because they're outclassed, all of a sudden they lost because they just weren't themselves.


well yea maybe thats it, I guess only Carwin knows for sure. I still don't think this fight proved much that we didn't already know, not that JDS needed to prove anything to me. I was sold on him being the 2nd best HW after the Crocop fight & he's been dominating ever since so it doesn't really matter. To be honest I think JDS has had a more impressive streak than Cain for a long time & I thought he would get a title shot before him. However I still see Cain as a bad stylistic matchup for him & see him beating JDS.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

If anything I thought this was the best Carwin we'd seen. He was able to get through JDS' power to try takedowns at least a couple of times, he was able to defend when he was getting crushed in round one and he absorbed that huge headkick. And he had cardio all three rounds despite having a shattered nose. 


I think this Carwin would have finished Lesnar in the second honestly.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> What a joke of a fight. JDS taking a page out of GSPS's book and playing it safe.
> 
> Ah well, at least Butterbeans amazing boxing was finally exposed.
> 
> ...


Thats True!

I also don't see how JDS could win this fight. Even the stand up should be pretty even too which is the only thing JDS has going for him here. 

Cain has everything, espcially much better endurance!



Reem vs. Cain is the Super Heavyweight Fight!!


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Cro cop hasn't been half the fighter he ever was since he first joined the UFC, everyone knows that.


It really doesn't matter that much. CroCop has the experience of being a veteran of the highest level. Striking is his forte and his striking in the UFC has still been really good. He hasn't been KOing fools left and right like in PRIDE, but he's certainly no slouch on the feetl



> Nelson landed several shots to JDS' dome throughout that fight, as did Mirko.


And Junior landed twice as many or more on them both. Neither of them landed anything big enough to even phase Junior either. According to Fight Metric, Junior outlanded Nelson 130-40 and CroCop 77-20. In fact the only opponents he hasn't outlanded by more than 3 times their amount of strikes landed were Werdum and Gonzaga, both of whom landed less than 10 punches on him.



> In the Nelson fight, Junior shown some pretty average defense and a low fighting IQ. Roy was blocking lot's of his shots with his high guard, yet JDS continued to head hunt over and over again when he should have been ripping the body shot's to make Nelson drop his hands, but, he didn't, instead he head hunted and was contiously just throwing hay makers. Granted a few of them landed, but I wasn't that impressed by his over all performance.


Actually I remember Junior landing quite a few body shots. Every time Roy backed toward the cage he would land them...



> When I say exposed, you guys have to understand the context of me saying this. A lot of people are hailing JDS as the next HW champion (and have been for some time) and labelling him as some crazy, elite fighter. I don't see that in any part of his game.
> 
> I see a good striker who doesn't really shine and stand out greatly in any area. That's my opinion. When I look at elite fighter's like GSP, Jones, Andy, etc, you can see that true greatness they all posses. I don't see that from JDS. I see a one dimensional, solid striker......and that's it. I don't think he'll ever be championship calibre.
> 
> ...


 *To put Junior's "Poor striking defense" into perspective: He has a 64% striking defense. Want to know what your listed elite striker in Anderson Silva has? 64%.* BJ Penn's is 60%, Cain's is 65%, Jones is 67%. GSP and Edgar (two men who are far lighter than Junior) have much higher rates at 75% and 74% respectively. 

As far as being one dimensional, that's borderline plain wrong. Junior not only showed fantastic defensive wrestling against Carwin, but he also holds a Brown Belt under the Noguerias, which is no small feat considering he's only been fighting for 5 years. Who says he can't just use that one dimension (his striking) if he has the tools to keep it standing? Hell, Chuck did it for YEARS and was the most successful LHW champ in UFC history.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> It really doesn't matter that much. CroCop has the experience of being a veteran of the highest level. Striking is his forte and his striking in the UFC has still been really good. He hasn't been KOing fools left and right like in PRIDE, but he's certainly no slouch on the feetl
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can say all you want, but I'm telling you right now that JDS isn't in Cain's league. Cain is some thing else, a different breed of fighter.

I'll happily sig bet you come fight time. JDS isn't going to last more than three rounds with Velasquez.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

i think jds will pull the upset in a 50/50 fight but im a lot more interested in strikeforce heavyweights right now, if fedor beats dan thats his last fight on his contract, m-1 might let him go to the ufc reasonably( i still doubt it) and face cain if he wins


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## METALLICA_RULES (Feb 12, 2011)

I just watched this fight. Carwin got smashed in the first round. Showed a lot of heart though. JDS showed excellent standup as always. Good fight.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

^Yeah I just watched it too! Got me pumped even more for Cain v JDS! 

And yeah, Carwin, like Guida, cannot it seems be knocked out!


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> You can say all you want, but I'm telling you right now that JDS isn't in Cain's league. Cain is some thing else, a different breed of fighter.
> 
> I'll happily sig bet you come fight time. JDS isn't going to last more than three rounds with Velasquez.


I don't really get you. The whole point is whether or not Cain is going to win the fight. Cain is probably the best HW talent the sports ever seen. He's a lot better than everyone else. 

It was largely just questionable that you maliciously bashed Dos Santos despite clearly being at least the 3rd best HW in the world, and a clear cut above guys like Carwin, Werdum, etc.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> I don't really get you. The whole point is whether or not Cain is going to win the fight. Cain is probably the best HW talent the sports ever seen. He's a lot better than everyone else.
> 
> It was largely just questionable that you maliciously bashed Dos Santos despite clearly being at least the 3rd best HW in the world, and a clear cut above guys like Carwin, Werdum, etc.


I think Shane Del Rosario could beat him.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> You can say all you want, but I'm telling you right now that JDS isn't in Cain's league. Cain is some thing else, a different breed of fighter.
> 
> I'll happily sig bet you come fight time. JDS isn't going to last more than three rounds with Velasquez.





Mckeever said:


> I think Shane Del Rosario could beat him.



How about a bet for Cain vs JDS? JDS outclasses Cain and you leave the forum for good.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Tyson Fury said:


> ^Yeah I just watched it too! Got me pumped even more for Cain v JDS!
> 
> And yeah, Carwin, like Guida, cannot it seems be knocked out!


JDS would have finished him if followed through after rocking him a short left hook in the second(or was it the third?)


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

With due respect McKeever,

Even I'm not a fan of JDS and I'm confident Cain will outclass him but what you're saying is a bit ridiculous. Carwin is not just some can. He proved that last night even in defeat, but I know you're not going to agree. I agree that JDS needs to diversify his attack. Yes, he's good at punching but Cain is smart and will force the fight outside of his comfort zone. But JDS has proven at this point to be a legitimate contender. There is no denying that, at all.

The only reason that you seem bitter is because JDS "played it safe" and wasn't "exciting" enough or something. You griped about the same thing during the Guida-Pettis fight.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> How about a bet for Cain vs JDS? JDS outclasses Cain and you leave the forum for good.


I already challenged you to a bet in another thread and you ignored.

I'm down for that but after you leave, you'll probably still come back to this forum under an alt account.



Ari said:


> With due respect McKeever,
> 
> Even I'm not a fan of JDS and I'm confident Cain will outclass him but what you're saying is a bit ridiculous. Carwin is not just some can. He proved that last night even in defeat, but I know you're not going to agree. I agree that JDS needs to diversify his attack. Yes, he's good at punching but Cain is smart and will force the fight outside of his comfort zone. But JDS has proven at this point to be a legitimate contender. There is no denying that, at all.
> 
> The only reason that you seem bitter is because JDS "played it safe" and wasn't "exciting" enough or something. You griped about the same thing during the Guida-Pettis fight.


I'm not bitter, I've just never really rated JDS that highly. It's got nothing to do with this fight alone. 

I've always thought Shane Carwin was a terrible fighter, so JDS not being able to even finish him isn't really that impressive, especially when I imagine what Cain or Overeem would to Shane, my god.

I actually found the Guida/Pettis fight to be exciting, I was just furious with the way the bout had been scored. 

I thought Mir's performance over Roy Nelson was more impressive than Junior's too.

I can imagine Khov actually crying and breaking down if/when JDS loses. Can't wait.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> JDS would have finished him if followed through after rocking him a short left hook in the second(or was it the third?)


Second or third? Can't remember man, so many punches thrown and landed! I honest to god thought it was over at the end of the first. Props to Herb Dean as Carwin was still, kinda, defending himself. 

I think the fight could of ended in any round if JDS was fighting someone with lesser cajones. Or a smaller head.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> I already challenged you to a bet in another thread and you ignored.
> 
> I'm down for that but after you leave, you'll probably still come back to this forum under an alt account.
> 
> ...


Lolbro. Carwin would beat Overeem. He's got a rock solid chin and would take Overeem down easily. Plus the guy got knocked out a ton of times by guys with way, way less power than Carwin.

And Nelson had pneumonia fighting Mir.



JDS is going to walk through Cain in the first round. Then Cain will beat some of the SF crossovers or something and earn another shot at JDS, then get stomped again.


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