# Im curious. Is the Machida TDD myth done with now???



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

I know many people here think Machida has the best TDD in MMA and that no one can take him down. Iv heard people gone as far as to call it "Legendary". Iv never been one to buy in to that because there is no proof of this. The best wrestlers Machida faced is Rashad and Rashad did not attempt a single take down the whole fight. And also the reason he does not get taken down by below average wrestlers is because Machida keeps a huge distance. In the Tito fight Tito was basically shooting from a instance distance. None of his shots were set up properly. Now Machida finally fought someone with good wrestling and that was planning on using it. It didnt look like Jon Jones struggled taking machida down and he himself said once he got the first takedown he felt he could do that whenever.

So my question is...

Do you guys still believe this crazy notion that Machida has the best TDD in MMA or even anywhere close to it??? Average maybe... and thats only because his distance plays a huge role in it.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

wasn't there only 1 td in the fight?


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Its hard to judge the man after that 1 td, to me i though jones was gonna clinch and land some knees. That takedown came out of no where and fast.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Ape City said:


> wasn't there only 1 td in the fight?


That was enough.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

I think machida has good tdd however I don't think it is good enough to stop guys like jones rashad or Davis from taking him down.


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## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

That wasn't like a double leg or something though, Jon just picked Machida up like a toy and slammed him. I don't think it was something you can make up with just defensive wrestling technique, it looked like Jones had a massive physical advantage over Machida.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> I think machida has good tdd however I don't think it is good enough to stop guys like jones rashad or Davis from taking him down.


Evans and davis yes i think he would. Lil nog stopped davis at will. Jon Jones is not a traditional wrestler he uses slams etc. Pretty much its picking up dead weight and throwing it. U gotta see those coming to stop those, otherwise its a wrap. All these dudes can probably pick up 205 like its nothing.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

From these responses i take it you guys still believe this false myth.

Oh well... maybe Machida can fight Phil Davis or something and itl prove his TDD isnt anything special.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

There's no way to defend against a Jones double leg. Nobody will ever stuff one of these in the LHW division. Even if you stand in a very wide base he's still going to be able to get his hands together behind your butt because he has arms as long as other people are tall. The fact that Lyoto was able to defend against Jon's first attempt in the clinch is enough for me to say his TDD is exceptional.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> There's no way to defend against a Jones double leg. Nobody will ever stuff one of these in the LHW division. Even if you stand in a very wide base he's still going to be able to get his hands together behind your butt because he has arms as long as other people are tall. The fact that Lyoto was able to defend against Jon's first attempt in the clinch is enough for me to say his TDD is exceptional.


I can't say I agree with this. Jones specializes in greco wrestling He's a master from the clinch.

Guys with great double legs are GSP and Sonnen. You can have 12 foot arms. If you sprawl *in time* and underhook at the bicep area you can stop the double leg TD. I can only remember one Jones double leg take down against rampage that he finished after the buzzer. Other than that all of his other takedowns are from the clinch.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I can't say I agree with this. Jones specializes in greco wrestling He's a master from the clinch.
> 
> Guys with great double legs are GSP and Sonnen. You can have 12 foot arms. If you sprawl *in time* and underhook at the bicep area you can stop the TD. I can only remember one double leg take down against rampage that he finished after the buzzer. Other than that all of his other takedowns are from the clinch.


He's definitely more of a greco guy but what I'm saying is that it's impossible for people with normal arms to defend against him getting his hands together. Even if you underhook his arm he's still going to be able to get his hands together. 

Just look at it.










Lyoto defended the throw and had the underhook but Jones still has his hands clasped together and gets the double after missing the thrip.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

That was a trip that set up the double leg. Not a traditional double leg shot.

You can keep his hands from clinching a double leg if you stop it in time. It doesn't matter how long your arms are.

Now if Jones tries to clinch your hips or above, thats something I see next to impossible to keep from locking up. You would have to keep him at a distance to avoid that. If he shoots and you spread your legs properly plus a good arm catch, than it wouldn't be too difficult if it's timed correctly.

There's a reason why 90% or more of Jones' takedowns are from the clinch. He just isn't as strong in a traditional wrestling double leg shot.


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## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

The guy with the nastiest takedowns from the clinch in the UFC, takes down Machida _from the clinch_, and now of the sudden Machida's TDD isn't so hot? You can't use that against him. Who hasn't Jones taken down?

IIRC Machida stuffed one attempt from the clinch in the first.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

NotDylan said:


> The guy with the nastiest takedowns from the clinch in the UFC, takes down Machida _from the clinch_, and now of the sudden Machida's TDD isn't so hot? You can't use that against him. Who hasn't Jones taken down?
> 
> IIRC Machida stuffed one attempt from the clinch in the first.


Your logic is flawed.

Jones taking down Machida isnt what makes Machidas TDD not so "Hot". His TDD was never hot to begin with.


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## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Your logic is flawed.
> 
> Jones taking down Machida isnt what makes Machidas TDD not so "Hot". His TDD was never hot to begin with.


Are you kidding? Brock Lesnar took down Cain. Is Cain's TDD poor? Frankie got BJ down, BJ must have poor TDD too. Jones took down Rampage, doesn't Rampage have strong TDD? Does getting taken down equate to poor TDD? Did Machida have to never be taken down for you to consider his TDD good? You're just screaming "Aha!" when the man with possibly the best Greco takedowns in the sport lands one on Machida. 

I agree with you that saying Lyoto's TDD is "Legendary" is ridiculous but come one now, it is good.


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## Coq de Combat (Sep 17, 2007)

It's all in your interpretation of "legendary".

I'll tell you this: there is absolutely no one that *can't* be taken down.

I'll also tell you this: there *are* guys that have good TDD.

Machida is one of them.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

NotDylan said:


> Are you kidding? Brock Lesnar took down Cain. Is Cain's TDD poor? Frankie got BJ down, BJ must have poor TDD too. Jones took down Rampage, doesn't Rampage have strong TDD? Does getting taken down equate to poor TDD? Did Machida have to never be taken down for you to consider his TDD good? You're just screaming "Aha!" when the man with possibly the best Greco takedowns in the sport lands one on Machida.
> 
> I agree with you that saying Lyoto's TDD is "Legendary" is ridiculous but come one now, it is good.


I just told you that Machida getting taken down is not what makes his TDD not so hot.

So how in the world do you come up with this response??

Crazy Crazy stuff.

I was wondering if Jon jones taking Machida down has maybe opened some peoples eyes up. I see it has not. But i know that Machidas TDD isnt that great.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

So why wasn't it good to begin with? lol

Of course Machida has great TDD, when has he been taken down consistently by fighters with weak take downs? Or at all?


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## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> I just told you that Machida getting taken down is not what makes his TDD not so hot.
> 
> So how in the world do you come up with this response??
> 
> ...


Put your fingers in your ears and keep telling us how wrong we are. MMAF is lucky to have you.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Nobody could've stop that exact takedown. Lyoto did a great job defending the trip but a double leg was a second away after that.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

K R Y said:


> So why wasn't it good to begin with? lol
> 
> Of course Machida has great TDD, when has he been taken down consistently by fighters with weak take downs? Or at all?


You dont have legendary take down defense just because you have not fought anyone with decent takedowns and when you finally do fight someone with good wrestling then you get taken down.
You need to prove you have good TDD. And Machidas done nothing to do so.



NotDylan said:


> Put your fingers in your ears and keep telling us how wrong we are. MMAF is lucky to have you.


Im not making a big deal about it. Im just stating my opinion. If you disagree with me that is okay. But dont go around making these stupid posts youv been making in the thread. MMAF is *not *lucky to have *you*.


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## MMA specialist (Nov 8, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> I know many people here think Machida has the best TDD in MMA and that no one can take him down. Iv heard people gone as far as to call it "Legendary". Iv never been one to buy in to that because there is no proof of this. The best wrestlers Machida faced is Rashad and Rashad did not attempt a single take down the whole fight. And also the reason he does not get taken down by below average wrestlers is because Machida keeps a huge distance. In the Tito fight Tito was basically shooting from a instance distance. None of his shots were set up properly. Now Machida finally fought someone with good wrestling and that was planning on using it. It didnt look like Jon Jones struggled taking machida down and he himself said once he got the first takedown he felt he could do that whenever.
> 
> So my question is...
> 
> Do you guys still believe this crazy notion that Machida has the best TDD in MMA or even anywhere close to it??? Average maybe... and thats only because his distance plays a huge role in it.


 so your saying in 3 fights with amazing wrestlers he was taken down once? how about 4 including his fight with couture. imo JBJ can takedown any man in the LHW with a degree of ease.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MMA specialist said:


> so your saying in 3 fights with amazing wrestlers he was taken down once? how about 4 including his fight with couture. imo JBJ can takedown any man in the LHW with a degree of ease.


See the thing is on paper those names look great but in reality it isnt. Which is why people with no clue about wrestling are fooled.


Rashad didnt attempt any takedowns.

Tito didnt set up any take downs and shot from a mile away.

Couture doesnt have great takedowns and Machida kept his distance so Couture didnt actually have a chance to attempt to drag Machida down.

*Jon Jones did a lousy takedown and succeeded with it.*


Im just going by the truth. You guys live in this world where Machida has this great TDD which is as true as Hector Lombard being the second best MW in the world.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

I think Phil D is the best wrestler at LHW, i guess we'll see how impressive he looks against Rashad.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MRBRESK said:


> I think Phil D is the best wrestler at LHW, i guess we'll see how impressive he looks against Rashad.


Are you going to play Diablo 3?

(Btw Phil has the best physique in MMA to me, those bat wings... badass)


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## SydneyFC (Sep 9, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> I just told you that Machida getting taken down is not what makes his TDD not so hot.
> 
> So how in the world do you come up with this response??
> 
> Crazy Crazy stuff.




He brings up a few valid points to rebut your original not-so-valid point and that's the reply? LOL. I was acutally looking forward to a decent debate.. 



> Put your fingers in your ears and keep telling us how wrong we are. MMAF is lucky to have you.



This.


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## MMA specialist (Nov 8, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Are you going to play Diablo 3?
> 
> (Btw Phil has the best physique in MMA to me, those bat wings... badass)


^ all about skyrim


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

SydneyFC said:


> SideWays222 said:
> 
> 
> > I just told you that Machida getting taken down is not what makes his TDD not so hot.
> ...


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Are you going to play Diablo 3?
> 
> (Btw Phil has the best physique in MMA to me, those bat wings... badass)


Diablo 3 looks insane, Skyrim is insane (i'm actually playing it right now).

I think Machida has good TDD, i think he'd stuff all of Chuck, Tito, Hendo, Randy, Bader, Hammill, Matyushenko, Brilz etc.'s takedowns, but he might have some trouble with Rashad, and wouldn't be able to contain Bones or Mr. Wonderful all night, but there's no shame in that, they are some of the best wrestlers the sport has ever seen.


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## SydneyFC (Sep 9, 2011)

Sideways222 said:


> Ok
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol Jesus. Your valid arguments and well thought-out debates cease to amaze me.



> Im just going by the truth. You guys live in this world where Machida has this great TDD which is as true as Hector Lombard being the second best MW in the world.


You say you aren't making a big deal out of it, and that it's your opinion, but statements like this just REAK of "I'm right, you're wrong and that's all there is to it."


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MRBRESK said:


> Diablo 3 looks insane, Skyrim is insane (i'm actually playing it right now).
> 
> I think Machida has good TDD, i think he'd stuff all of Chuck, Tito, Hendo, Randy, Bader, Hammill, Matyushenko, Brilz etc.'s takedowns, but he might have some trouble with Rashad, and wouldn't be able to contain Bones or Mr. Wonderful all night, but there's no shame in that, they are some of the best wrestlers the sport has ever seen.


You really think so??

I think anyone that can set a shot up would take Machida down 2 out of 3 times.

Tito cant set up a shot if his life depended on it. So Machida WOULD and HAS stuffed all his shots.

Chuck... i cant say i know much about his wrestling. Machida would certainly stuff the shot that Chuck succeeded with on Wanderlei.

Hendo would take Machida down without much problem.

A prime Couture would take Machida down.

Baders wrestling is overrated from what iv seen. But if he closed the distance and then shot i think he would take Machida down. If he just shot from a distance then Machida would just evade as usual.

Hamill i put in the same category is bader.


Rashad seems to going back to his wrestling roots. I guarantee if Rashad comes in throws a punch and then shoots he will take Machida down without much effort.




SydneyFC said:


> Lol Jesus. Your valid arguments and well thought-out debates cease to amaze me.
> 
> 
> 
> You say you aren't making a big deal out of it, and that it's your opinion, but statements like this just REAK of "I'm right, you're wrong and that's all there is to it."


Alright thanks for the debate.

Sorry bud. I just dont waste my time on people that dont read the whole thread. Or atleast post like they dont.

Iv learned from my mistakes.


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## beardsleybob (Jan 3, 2010)

SydneyFC said:


> Lol Jesus. Your valid arguments and well thought-out debates cease to amaze me.
> 
> 
> 
> You say you aren't making a big deal out of it, and that it's your opinion,* but statements like this just REAK of "I'm right, you're wrong and that's all there is to it."*


No idea why you're limiting it to just one of his statements. He's talking blind garbage.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

beardsleybob said:


> No idea why you're limiting it to just one of his statements. He's talking blind garbage.


Dont be so sensitive. :hug:


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

I don't get it. By all evidence and statistics given, Lyoto Machida was very good TDD. I don't recall it ever being heralded as 'legendary' or insurmountable. This is MMA, not baseball, you use what you have, and its reasonable to assume Machida has relatively good takedown defense.

The fact that is he is good at keeping distance and this helps him keep it standing doesn't mean he doesn't have good takedown defense, it means he has good take down defense. Thats one of the ways he stops takedowns.

I think the threadstarter's question is disingenous becase she/he doesn't seem curious at all about the perception of Lyoto's defense, rather he/she seems insistent on the fact that it is in fact illusory. Perhaps he is a wrestling afiocionado who resents the fact the Machida is considered a good wrestler despite his non wrestling background.


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## SydneyFC (Sep 9, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> Alright thanks for the debate.


I could just quote myself all day. I can see why so many people like you around here.



> Lol Jesus. Your valid arguments and well thought-out debates cease to amaze me.


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## SydneyFC (Sep 9, 2011)

Iuanes said:


> I think the threadstarter's question is disingenous becase she/he doesn't seem curious at all about the perception of Lyoto's defense, rather he/she seems insistent on the fact that it is in fact illusory. Perhaps he is a wrestling afiocionado who resents the fact the Machida is considered a good wrestler despite his non wrestling background.


Close, but that's just Sideways222. He's been training at AKA for 4 years (it's actually three and half years, he just gets his months and dates wrong sometimes) and due to this, he is right, and you are wrong, and don't you dare ever try to tell him different.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Iuanes said:


> I don't get it. By all evidence and statistics given, Lyoto Machida was very good TDD. I don't recall it ever being heralded as 'legendary' or insurmountable. This is MMA, not baseball, you use what you have, and its reasonable to assume Machida has relatively good takedown defense.
> 
> The fact that is he is good at keeping distance and this helps him keep it standing doesn't mean he doesn't have good takedown defense, it means he has good take down defense. Thats one of the ways he stops takedowns.
> 
> I think the threadstarter's question is disingenous becase she/he doesn't seem curious at all about the perception of Lyoto's defense, rather he/she seems insistent on the fact that it is in fact illusory. Perhaps he is a wrestling afiocionado who resents the fact the Machida is considered a good wrestler despite his non wrestling background.



There are fighters that have records of 20-0 but their competition is less then impressive. So some people see that number and get amazed but in reality its only because that person hasnt fought anyone good.

The same principal goes with Machidas TDD. The guy has not had any decent take downs attempted on him. And to be honest Jon jones takedown was actually very sloppy. So on paper his TDD looks good but in reality its very un proven.

Also... im just going by what iv read. I have seen people use the term "Legendary" im not kidding...




SydneyFC said:


> I could just quote myself all day. I can see why so many people like you around here.



"So Machida doesnt have great TDD because he gets taken down once!!"

"No... Machidas TDD has not been great way before that takedown"

"OMG SO HE GETS TAKEN DOWN ONCE AND YOU THINK ITS NOT GREAT"

then you come on

"He makes valid points durp durp durpee durp."


Thats why i dont take you seriously.

I felt like you were going to leave the thread since you were so disappointed with the debate or w/e.

But your still here.... doing exactly what i knew you were going to be doing. Common poster will be common....


and btw... if you want to see an answer to his "valid points". Its in the thread. Thats another reason why i dont care for you. Plz leave.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> You really think so??
> 
> I think anyone that can set a shot up would take Machida down 2 out of 3 times.
> 
> ...



Hendo and Randy would struggle to clinch up with Lyoto, his movement is so good. 

Hamill had a good collegiate wrestling career and he's shown that he's a solid MMA wrestler.

Bader was a 2 time all american. He may not have adapted it aswell to MMA as he should have (it's only cos he's not learned how to strike) but i mean he's a good pure wrestler and i don't think he'd have a chance in hell at getting Lyoto down.


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## SydneyFC (Sep 9, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> "So Machida doesnt have great TDD because he gets taken down once!!"
> 
> "No... Machidas TDD has not been great way before that takedown"
> 
> ...


And incoherent idiot is incoherent. What the hell is all that giberish up the top? I certainly never said any of that. Is that meant to be an argument with yourself?

I'm not a troll, and it's nothing personal. Just the way you carry on really irks me.


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## Sovereign (Sep 2, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> You really think so??
> 
> I think anyone that can set a shot up would take Machida down 2 out of 3 times.
> 
> ...


I think you are taking a bit away from Machida here. There is a reason people have difficulty shooting on Machida, and you are partially right, they aren't setting up their shots properly, but the reason they aren't is because Machida is so good at keeping distance, and he is so fast that he can move in and out of your range with ease hit you, and be far enough away from you that if you go for a shot it looks like you are just going for it in desperation when usually something like that would work on an opponent. I would say thats good take down defense in and of itself.

That's the one thing that made the match with Jones so intriguing, would Machida's speed and evasiveness be enough to deal with Jone's reach and raw athleticism. 

I, personally don't think Hendo would even try for a clinch against Machida, honestly, he'd try to stand and bang with him, and if he did try I think he's too slow to be able to land a take down on Machida or even keep him against the fence. Rashad was beaten with an exclamation point last time, and a win over Tito in the second when Lil Nog destroyed him in the first, doesn't convince me he could beat Machida in a rematch, and I think Davis is still an unknown quantity at this point. I guess time will tell, though.


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## SydneyFC (Sep 9, 2011)

I'll quit with the personal jabs and leave the thread, but I shall see you soon friend.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

SydneyFC said:


> And incoherent idiot is incoherent. What the hell is all that giberish up the top? I certainly never said any of that. Is that meant to be an argument with yourself?
> 
> I'm not a troll, and it's nothing personal. Just the way you carry on really irks me.


*Facepalm*

No you didnt say it. But its the conversation you got all butt sore about.

Thats exactly my point. You dont know what is going on and yet you comment. Its beyond silly to me.

Great.. i irk you...

while i think your just simply put... annoying and clueless.

So why not just leave the thread and we both win??? or if you feel inclined to stay you can quote someone else and leave me out of it 
i promise i wont quote you if you do.




MRBRESK said:


> Hendo and Randy would struggle to clinch up with Lyoto, his movement is so good.
> 
> Hamill had a good collegiate wrestling career and he's shown that he's a solid MMA wrestler.
> 
> Bader was a 2 time all american. He may not have adapted it aswell to MMA as he should have (it's only cos he's not learned how to strike) but i mean he's a good pure wrestler and i don't think he'd have a chance in hell at getting Lyoto down.


Iv wrestled for a long time so i certainly know their credentials and know what they mean.

Hamill is very hit and miss with his wrestling. If you dont think so then you must not have been watching his latest fights.

Bader might be a good wrestler but as an MMA wrestler he is less then impressive. And thats what matters... MMA wrestling. Dont get me wrong. On a wrestling mat ALL these guys would tool Machida like he is a child.

Hendo would grab on Machida and then take him down. Hendo has a solid chin and would not mind getting punched when coming in. You could say the same for a prime Randy.


*AND TBH*

I made this thread to see if people still thought Machida had this great TDD. I dont particularly care to change anyones opinion.





SydneyFC said:


> I'll quit with the personal jabs and leave the thread, but I shall see you soon friend.


Whoa... my prayer came true. Maybe there really is a god.

btw.. dont worry about the personal jabs. Id just rather you not waste my time commenting on stuff you dont have a clue about. Read the whole thread, figure out whats going on. Then post something worthwhile. Dont just read 1 post and make up some crazy scenario and just run with it.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> *Facepalm*
> 
> *AND TBH*
> 
> I made this thread to see if people still thought Machida had this great TDD. I dont particularly care to change anyones opinion.


Let me just ask you a question then, what is JDS' TDD like? Considering he stuffed Carwin's TDs (who is not a good wrestler if Bader isn't) and only got to defend 1 of Cain's (Lyoto stuffed 1 of Bones' takedowns).


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MRBRESK said:


> Let me just ask you a question then, what is JDS' TDD like? Considering he stuffed Carwin's TDs (who is not a good wrestler if Bader isn't) and only got to defend 1 of Cain's (Lyoto stuffed 1 of Bones' takedowns).


I dont know. I would have to think about it and go over the fights. I cant say i could knowledgeably answer your question at this time.

Iv put alot of thought and research in to Machidas TDD. Which is why im so confident to say that it isnt anything impressive. There are padded records all over the place and Machidas TDD is one of those cases.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Machida does have great TDD, some of the best in the UFC.

Jon Jones has some of the best takedowns in the UFC.

Sideways has some of the most desperate threads ever. 

It is possible that all of these are true.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

It seems no one here remembers Machida's fight against Sokoudjou. Or the fact that Rampage stuffed way more takedowns against Jones than Machida did.

Now, does he have good TDD? Yes. Great? No, that's pushing it a bit. Great is GSP or a fresh BJ Penn where they can stuff all the best wrestlers like they're little kids.


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## Jags (Aug 7, 2010)

It's one TD? just one ?

If that's your theory then someone who has been knocked out just once means they must have a glass jaw then ? 

crazy talk.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

He's now been taken down by Rampage and Jones, I'd say the myth that Machida is impossible to take down is long gone. Rashad would have been able to take him down too, but was stupid and decided to try and stand with him. Don't get me wrong, Machida has superb takedown defense, and some of the best striking at 205lbs, but his TDD has always been overhyped.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> You really think so??
> 
> I think anyone that can set a shot up would take Machida down 2 out of 3 times.
> 
> ...


I think Chuck attempted an iffy take down against Wanderlei because he knew he would get it either way. I don't think that he felt the need to put much effort into it. Toward the end of his career, he finally started showing his solid wrestling offensively and actually succeeded on taking every fighter down that he used it against during that time. That would include Silva, Shogun, and Franklin. His take downs probably aren't the best, but they would probably be good enough to get Machida down at least once. That is if it were a prime Chuck, of course. I imagine his take downs would be even better if he were a little younger and faster.


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## cookiefritas (Jun 17, 2011)

Machida has great takedown defense and is almost impossible to take down with a shot, because he is so quick and can see those coming from a mile away. 

Against shots, I would say he has great TDD.

Once in the clinch, he has good TDD, but greco roman style wrestlers will take a non greco roman figher in the clinch 9 times out of 10. Once they get double underhooks, its over.

Then once taken down, Machida gets up really quick, no one has been able to keep him down, not even Jones. 

Basically, you can have legendary TDD, but if GSP, Sonnen, or Jones get their hands on you, you are going down.


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## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

I've never actually seen anyone say Machida had the best TDD in mma so I'm not sure what myth you're talking about.

I think you need to put things into the context. 

Machida does have excellent TDD and is very strong in the clinch. 

It simply wasn't good enough to stop Jon Jones' TD. There is a difference.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

zarny said:


> I've never actually seen anyone say Machida had the best TDD in mma so I'm not sure what myth you're talking about.
> 
> I think you need to put things into the context.
> 
> ...


You dont think i thought about these things???

I have went over every scenario and i still stick with my statement.

What people are miss understanding is that i am not saying "Jon Jones took down Machida so Machidas TDD stinks". Iv never said that and i would never say that. IMO Machidas TDD wasnt great to begin with. Its extremely average imo but his style creates the illusion that it is better then it is, mixed with the fact that he fought Rashad but Rashad never attempted a takedown.

But again

If you dont share my opinion that is completely fine. I just made this thread to see if anyones opinion has changed.

BTW
Iv READ these comments "Legendary" "Best in MMA" "Nearly impossible to take down" "Best Hips in MMA". ETC.
Im not making this stuff up. Iv been part of this forum since 2008. I know im not the most "popular" member but i am honest and truthful. I wouldnt just make these statements up.


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## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

I can't speak for the rest of the simpletons in this thread but for me, the part where you backed up your arguments with personal opinions and statements like "I know that Machida's TDD isn't that great" is when I began to see the errors in my thinking. Thanks for setting me straight.

On a completely unrelated topic, here's a neat little website I found. Now, you don't have to tell me that hard facts prove nothing, I already learned that, but it's worth a look:

http://www.fightmetric.com/ufcrecords.html



> Takedown Defense
> 
> 1	Andrei Arlovski	89.5%
> 2	Gleison Tibau	88.9%
> ...


Joking aside, I do think Rashad would get Lyoto down and maybe Davis too. Rampage did stuff a few of Rashad's TD's and Little Nog stuffed Davis for a round or two.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

NotDylan said:


> I can't speak for the rest of the simpletons in this thread but for me, the part where you backed up your arguments with personal opinions and statements like "I know that Machida's TDD isn't that great" is when I began to see the errors in my thinking. Thanks for setting me straight.
> 
> On a completely unrelated topic, here's a neat little website I found. Now, you don't have to tell me that hard facts prove nothing, I already learned that, but it's worth a look:
> 
> ...


You obviously didnt bother reading the thread.


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## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> You obviously didnt bother reading the thread.


In my opinion, I did. FACT.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

NotDylan said:


> In my opinion, I did. FACT.


K.

Im happy for you. :hug:


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

This thread is like sitting in a car with children, the bickering doesn't end.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MRBRESK said:


> This thread is like sitting in a car with children, the bickering doesn't end.


You might not believe me but iv been honestly trying to avoid it. Thats why iv been giving people i consider pointless to talk to pretty much the shortest respond i could think off. I was trying to just put "K" but it asks me to write more.

There were alot of good posters in here though. Alot of interesting opinions. I think only 2 or 3 guys ruined it.

For me anyway.


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## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

I think I'm going to play a wizard. I did a barb in the first two games and am ready for a change. Looking forward to inferno mode.


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## otronegro (Aug 23, 2011)

http://www.fightmetric.com/ufcrecords.html



> Takedown Defense
> 
> 1	Andrei Arlovski	89.5%
> 2	Gleison Tibau	88.9%
> ...


This right here, the only myth left now for us to look into is your knowledge on TDD, cuz numbers say ur wrong.

BTW you cant create a thread like this stating things that statistics say otherwise and just says everybody else is wrong and ur right. You need to back up what you say, quoting other members past opinions isnt enough to dish Machida TDD. Fact is, the guy is one of the top TDD in the game, numbers dont care if ur butthurt about something. or simple dont like his fans.

The numbers are there, and ONE TD from the number ONE LHW in the world wont change that. and if you watch the fight again you will notice that Machida was tagged before that TD, it was the first clean shot JBJ landed.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

That takedown was brilliant, even Lesnar would've had problems defended it. Bones might just be the best overall takedown artist in MMA, past Sonnen and GSP. He's manhandled some very wrestlers like Bader, Hamill and Matyushenko.

One failed defense against possibly the best wrestler in MMA =/= crap TDD. He still has like a 95% success rate or something, higher than most others apart from bones himself and maybe a couple of others like Davis who are at 100%.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> That takedown was brilliant, even Lesnar would've had problems defended it. Bones might just be the best overall takedown artist in MMA, past Sonnen and GSP. He's manhandled some very wrestlers like Bader, Hamill and Matyushenko.
> 
> *One failed defense against possibly the best wrestler in MMA =/= crap TDD.* He still has like a 95% success rate or something, higher than most others apart from bones himself and maybe a couple of others like Davis who are at 100%.


Lol gotta love how people keep saying this. I guess answering this 5x isnt enough. Gotta make it 6.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> Lol gotta love how people keep saying this. I guess answering this 5x isnt enough. Gotta make it 6.


whoops, didn't bother going through the whole thread, just 1st page .


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## TheOldAssassin (Sep 17, 2010)

Whatever remains of the Machida TDD myth could be debunked in his next fight, since he will very likely be fighting whoever loses as between Rashad and Phil Davis.

Machida-Rashad II would go very different from the first fight (at UFC 98) for three reasons: First, Rashad will never stand and bang with Machida this time around; second, Machida was red-hot going into UFC 98 and he's ice-cold now; and third, Sergio Gasparelli, byname "Babu," who worked with Machida leading up to UFC 98, is now at Imperial Athletics, working with Rashad.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> whoops, didn't bother going through the whole thread, just 1st page .


You deserve a rep for this answer.

Alot of people tend to do this but most people get defensive when called out. Whether you agree with me or not you my friend are a

*Breath of fresh air...*


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