# GSP Greasing



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

*
First things first, watch this entire video
*

I know this topic has probably been discussed to death, but i wasnt really around mma forums at the time and im interested as to why so many people simply over look the fact that GSP is a cheater. 

Please watch the video. I was always sceptical about the greasing but the evidence is as clear as day in that video. I have no respect for cheaters in any sport, regardless of their skill. Why is it GSP gets hailed as the king and BJ as the whining cry baby complaining gsp was greasing?


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

ye its been talked about alot. gsp did indeed grease but BJ beeing the loudmouth that he is didnt get taken seriously


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

The thing is, GSP's personality carries him a long way. His good looks and happy go lucky demeanor makes him a fan favourite and hence people don't *want* to even consider him being a cheat because it ruins their perfect view of him. On the other hand, if someone that wasn't so adored, I think that the fans would be pretty quick to call him a cheat and hang him out to dry. I think its pretty clear that Phil Nurse did rub some sort of greasing agent on his back, *HOWEVER* saying that this was the decisive factor in GSP's victory is going to far. For all we know, vaseline or not, Georges may have still beaten Penn in that fight.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

No one who was around then has ignored it...believe me...no one.

:sarcastic07:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

N1™;1228364 said:


> ye its been talked about alot. gsp did indeed grease but BJ beeing the* loudmouth that he is didnt get taken seriously*


What do you mean here? Because he was out spoken about it? Why shouldnt he be? Even Dana knew GSP had done it and did nothing about it.

That greasing gave GSP a significant advantage in the fight. GSP just shattering 1,000 years of Ju Jitsu principles by smashing through Penn's established rubber guard by simply posturing up and watching BJ's legs go on a vasoline slip and slide down his back. 

One of the biggest superfights in mma history could of very well ended up turning out much differently if gsp wasnt greasing.

I dont care how GSP acts infront of a camera, a cheat is a cheat. Its sickens me the fact that people hail GSP as the king and BJ as a cry baby. Where is the ******* justice in all of this?


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

It's pretty obvious that something a bit sketchy was going on, but no-one knows how much GSP was aware of it. So you cant catogorically call him a cheat.

He has said himself that he was aware of the commission saying something during the fight and rubbing him down, and he also offered BJ a rematch when the controversy arose, which would suggest he didn't know about it.
Only GSP knows if he was aware of it, the rest is all speculation.

Personally i will still support GSP, cos since the greasing rules changed he has still owned everyone he has fought, and a lot of what won him that fight with BJ wouldn't have changed regardless of whether he had a bit of grease on his back or not.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

edlavis88 said:


> It's pretty obvious that something a bit sketchy was going on, but no-one knows how much GSP was aware of it. So you cant catogorically call him a cheat.
> 
> He has said himself that he was aware of the commission saying something during the fight and rubbing him down, and he also offered BJ a rematch when the controversy arose, which would suggest he didn't know about it.
> 
> Only GSP knows if he was aware of it, the rest is all speculation.


Im not sure if you have watched all of the video, but make sure you do.

GSP clearly knew what was going on. 5 other UFC fighters have called him out on doing the same thing in other fights, are you suggesting he wanst aware of it on those fights either? Rubbish, GSP and his camp knew EXACTLY what they were doing.

The way i personally see it is this. GSP is mentally weak. He feels he has to add some thing else to his game to give him the edge over his opponent (greasing). I dont know why he would grease either, hes such a talented fighter, but i have lost all respect for the man. He is a fake and a cheat.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

the guys a greaser and a roider.


he openly talks about his training but doesn't want to tell people his "secret" for putting on 10Ibs of muscle quickly because he is afraid people will copy him.........


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> What do you mean here? Because he was out spoken about it? Why shouldnt he be? Even Dana knew GSP had done it and did nothing about it.
> 
> That greasing gave GSP a significant advantage in the fight. GSP just shattering 1,000 years of Ju Jitsu principles by smashing through Penn's established rubber guard by simply posturing up and watching BJ's legs go on a vasoline slip and slide down his back.
> 
> ...


i think you misjudged the tone of my post. i think BJ was in the right, hell, theres pictorial avidence of it ffs. but sadly for BJ he doesnt get taken seriously and it somehow just faded away without any actual action beeing taken.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

N1™ said:


> i think you misjudged the tone of my post. i think BJ was in the right, hell, theres pictorial avidence of it ffs. but sadly for BJ he doesnt get taken seriously and it somehow just faded away without any actual action beeing taken.


Ahh my bad, i misinterpreted. 

What i can just about come to terms with is the UFC not doing any thing about the whole situation because GSP is such a liked guy and an icon and a role model. If they exposed GSP as a cheater it would seriously damage their business.

What how ever, i can not come to terms with is the fans. The community. How can the fans still label GSP as the king, the nice guy, the innocent guy when he is a god damn fraud and a cheater. How can people not see sense? out of this entire greasing fiasco it has been BJ Penns reputation that has suffered, where as GSP's has gained even more popularity. This sickens me.

From now on i will always be rooting against GSP, hoping that one day he taps out to strikes again. What goes around comes back around, he will get whats coming to him eventually.


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

Nice editing!


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## capsal (Jul 12, 2009)

guy incognito said:


> the guys a greaser and a roider.
> 
> 
> he openly talks about his training but doesn't want to tell people his "secret" for putting on 10Ibs of muscle quickly because he is afraid people will copy him.........


:thumbsup::thumbsup: 

people on this board are so gullible when it comes to roid use. They think they know if someone is using or not when they have no experience with the juice.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

I <3 GSP. 

I prefer him without grease, but with the grease, meh, I still like him.

If he were to lose, it wouldn't really hurt me like it does to see Henderson, Shogun, Jim Miller etc lose. It's more of an admiration because his style is something guys are going to use for a long, long time. 

You can call it LnP, and I agree there was a little bit of it in the Hardy fight, but for the most part he's wrecking top guys who are just too tough to finish. (PS I wanted Thiago Alves to beat him, I am not a die-hard fan of GSP's)

If he were to break the rule now that it was enforced, it would be ridiculous and I would hate him too, but since he doesn't seem to need it I don't care. If it were a real issue the commission should have laid out a fine or suspension. Unfortunately, that's how the history books will remember it.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

SJ said:


> If he were to break the rule now that it was enforced, it would be ridiculous and I would hate him too, but since he doesn't seem to need it I don't care. If it were a real issue the commission should have laid out a fine or suspension. Unfortunately, that's how the history books will remember it.


Probably not seeing as he has been manhandling everyone else after. Dan Hardy is an absolute beast and he treated him like a little bitch, and that's saying something. I think people should be more concerned about the roid accusations, to be that lean and that muscular definitely puts you in contention for steroid abuse, even if he doesn't juice. Can't wait until there is more transparency and strict delineations as to the testing processes.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Well I think the video clearly showed that GSP quite easily 'slipped' through BJ's rubber guard. That's not easy even for GSP, which suggests that the greasing agent allowed him to do this. At one stage it looked like BJ was on his way to get a triangle locked in, but GSP just popped right out, as a result BJ's BJJ game was completely negated.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

This topic has been beaten to death.

Search for the old threads.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

SigFig said:


> He dominated your little Outlaw.
> 
> Get over it.
> 
> Did Kos grease when he put that woopin' on Daley too?


Come on man, lets stay on topic.


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

greased or not, there hasn't been a fight that it would have made a difference. 

Greased = 100% domination in all of his fights since Serra..

Non Greased = 99%??? 

I dunno.


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## rean1mator (Nov 20, 2006)

Hardy is no where close to being any sort of creature except a troll maybe. don't believe the hype. Who the fck did he have to fight to get the title shot against gsp? 

swick and davis. really? gatekeepers on the best of their days. i can guarantee you he wasn't the number 1 contender when he fought gsp for the title. they gave it to him b/c gsp destroyed everyone else. 





rabakill said:


> Probably not seeing as he has been manhandling everyone else after. Dan Hardy is an absolute beast and he treated him like a little bitch, and that's saying something. I think people should be more concerned about the roid accusations, to be that lean and that muscular definitely puts you in contention for steroid abuse, even if he doesn't juice. Can't wait until there is more transparency and strict delineations as to the testing processes.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

enceledus said:


> greased or not, there hasn't been a fight that it would have made a difference.
> 
> Greased = 100% domination in all of his fights since Serra..
> 
> ...


That is where you are wrong. Did you watch the video? Did you watch the BJ fight? Did you watch the first BJ fight?

BJ Penn is infamous for his guard. GSP just slipped from his guard and advanced position. Any time BJ tried to use some offense from his back, he would just slip out of place.

the greasing quite clearly gave GSP a significant edge in the fight, it could of been completely different if the grease wasnt applied.

Then, lets look at BJ vs GSP's first fight. GSP didnt come close, not even close to escpaing BJ's guard, yet in the second fight he just slips right out of it, without BJ being able to do any thing with his world class JJ?

C'mon man, work it out. Im not saying BJ would of beat GSP, but it definetley gave GSP a big advantage in the fight. Especially baring in mind that BJ's gameplan for the fight had been training from his back and using his JJ. His JuJitsu was neutralised because of gsps greasing antics.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

Hasn't this thread been beaten to death... this is kinda... old. And well worn.

GSP is a beast. That's about it. I'm tired of defending the guy. He's an elite athlete. Seems some folk can't deal with that...



http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/51079-why-oh-why-did-grease-controversy-have-happen.html

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/51164-dana-white-grease-conspiracy-theory.html

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/51156-gsp-grease-why-no-discussing-rules.html

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/53024-bj-penn-accuses-gsp-greasing-water.html

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/52548-our-thoughts-gsp-greasing-incident-ufc-94-a.html

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/51059-greg-jackson-responds-greasing-allegations.html


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## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> *
> First things first, watch this entire video
> *
> 
> ...


That is some slick editing going on there (no pun intended). I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the people doing the most pissing and moaning about it are guys that GSP has dominated, Serra never said anything about in either of their fights. Looking at the triangle attempts, BJ never got his ankles above GSP's shoulders, that's just poor technique, he could of had a gi on and it probably wouldn't have worked. Now before you label me a GSP bitch, let me say this, I find most of his fights pretty boring, that and the whole Frenchy thing ills me to a great extent, almost as bad as Silva when he fights at MW, boring. Now the talk about roids use has more relevance. The man is basically shredded, yet he has bitch tits, to me that points to roid use, when I was using the more androgen rich juice, I always got bitch tits and for the most part the only way to get rid of them is surgery, look at his nipples and see how puffy they are. My guess is he's using fairly low dosages or he'd be like Randleman or Manhoef with his genetics.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SigFig said:


> Hasn't this thread been beaten to death... this is kinda... old. And well worn.
> 
> GSP is a beast. That's about it. I'm tired of defending the guy. He's an elite athlete. Seems some folk can't deal with that...
> 
> ...


Quickly skimmed through that thread. None of them included the video i posted on the first page.

I'll post what i posted in my other post;

GSP shattering 1,000 years of Ju Jitsu principles by smashing through Penn's established rubber guard by simply posturing up and watching BJ's legs go on a vasoline slip and slide down his back.

BJ's Ju Jitsu was completely neutralised by gsps's greasing antics and the video evidence proves this.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

dave-stjohn said:


> ...Now the talk about roids use has more relevance. The man is basically shredded, yet he has bitch tits, to me that points to roid use, when I was using the more androgen rich juice, I always got bitch tits and for the most part the only way to get rid of them is surgery, look at his nipples and see how puffy they are. My guess is he's using fairly low dosages or he'd be like Randleman or Manhoef with his genetics.


Are you really suggesting GSP has gynecomastia (b*tch t*ts)?

Srsly?

I mean really?


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Again? Really?

Thaty was far from the deciding factor in the fight. Watch it again WITHOUT bias and tell me he still wouldn't have beaten BJ to a bloody pulp.

BJ lost to a better, superior athlete. Get over it.


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> the guys a greaser and a roider.
> 
> 
> he openly talks about his training but doesn't want to tell people his "secret" for putting on 10Ibs of muscle quickly because he is afraid people will copy him.........


for once i agree.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Again? Really?
> 
> Thaty was far from the deciding factor in the fight. Watch it again WITHOUT bias and tell me he still wouldn't have beaten BJ to a bloody pulp.
> 
> BJ lost to a better, superior athlete. Get over it.


Stop being so arrogant to the situation. GSP for the entire fight was focused on wearing BJ out and taking him down. GSP without greasing wouldnt of been able to just transition so easily and land that GNP on the ground.

The picture you posted just proves you're either a gsp nuthugger or a BJ Penn hater, or maybe both. 

*Inserts picture of GSPS's bloody, battered face after round 1 of their first fight*....


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

There's no real secret to putting on lean mass.

Calorie surplus -- Brown rice, sweet potatoes, lean protein sources, etc.

Squats, deadlifts, compound muscle movements.

Rest / Sleep.

Do any internetting message board people step into gyms??? Jeezus.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

The people who still deny he greased are completely delusion. Whether or not he wins without doing it is irrelevant to the fact that he is a cheater. The anger that was directed toward BJ over this is retarded. GSP cheated BJ challenged him and the athletic commission on it and changed the sport for the better. 

As far as the steroid thing goes I don't know nor do I care. I operate under the assumption that 90% of the fighters who can afford it are taking some kind of banned drug for either recreational, performance enhancement, or injury recovery purposes. BJ smokes weed and the stress that removes from you is going to make everything take less of a physical toll on your body and help you recover faster. I don't really know how to look at that that versus taking HGH to try and recover from an injury. So I'm not going to judge these guys too harshly for it.


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## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

SigFig said:


> Are you really suggesting GSP has gynecomastia (b*tch t*ts)?
> 
> Srsly?
> 
> I mean really?


Yes I am, just go look at any front pic of his, his nipples have fatty tissue that make them noticeably puffy which is very uncharacteristic of a person with his muscle mass and very low body fat levels. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine, but it's there for the world to see.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

This thread is an epic fail of conjecture, misinformation and plain out hating... 

It's like a sherdog invasion or something.

Good grief.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Pretty obvious GSP was greased in the BJ fight. I am skeptical that since the greasing thing it's only been the moaners and sore losers like Hughes and Mayhem who have come back and "remembered" that GSP was greased. Hmmmm convienient!

As for the roiding - I think GSP has used HGH at some point, but the MMA rules regarding HGH are hazy. He has the look of someone who has used HGH not roids.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

edlavis88 said:


> Pretty obvious GSP was greased in the BJ fight. I am skeptical that since the greasing thing it's only been the moaners and sore losers like Hughes and Mayhem who have come back and "remembered" that GSP was greased. Hmmmm convienient!
> 
> As for the roiding - I think GSP has used HGH at some point, but the MMA rules regarding HGH are hazy. He has the look of someone who has used HGH not roids.


Add Sean Sherk and Kenny Florian to that list.

Sig Fig instead of moaning how about you add some productivity to this thread and type out an argument.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Add Sean Sherk and Kenny Florian to that list.
> 
> Sig Fig instead of moaning how about you add some productivity to this thread and type out an argument.


Kenflo actually said he didn't believe GSP was greasing! And sherk didn't say anything directly about it either, it's all just media twisting to make these big headlines.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Add Sean Sherk and Kenny Florian to that list.
> 
> Sig Fig instead of moaning how about you add some productivity to this thread and type out an argument.


Or I start a new thread about an old azz tired topic related to some random mma stuff... Like the only punch Paul Daley was able to hit Josh Koscheck with... :thumb02:

Here's my contribution... GSP is a freak athlete and tools his opponents. It's really that simple. He served Penn. He served Hardy. End of story.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

edlavis88 said:


> Kenflo actually said he didn't believe GSP was greasing! And sherk didn't say anything directly about it either, it's all just media twisting to make these big headlines.


Kenflo spoke to BJ prior to their second fight and said that he hopes BJ kicks gsps greasing ass. He then later denied these claims and is now training with gsp.

Sean Sherk has also stated that gsp was very slippery.

You're so arrogant and dont even realise it SigFig. Im not denying gsp isnt an amazing athlete either, he is, but the greasing in the second BJ fight was clearly a great advantage for him. It completely neutralised penns offensive Ju Jitsu. You know, the Ju Jitsu which gsp failed to surpass in their first fight, the Ju Jitsu in which Penn won the world championships in 3 years. You dont just slip out of Penns guard like butter.

Also you say its an old ass tired topic, yet your join date is septermber 2009? Im guessing you have been banned on another account.

Whats hardy got to do with any thing?


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Kenflo spoke to BJ prior to their second fight and said that he hopes BJ kicks gsps greasing ass. He then later denied these claims and is now training with gsp.
> 
> Sean Sherk has also stated that gsp was very slippery.
> 
> ...


I'm just gonna positive rep ya for being such a diligent troll McKeever. No time for more of this nonsense. Take care bud. War Hardy. War Penn.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

dave-stjohn said:


> That is some slick editing going on there (no pun intended). I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the people doing the most pissing and moaning about it are guys that GSP has dominated, Serra never said anything about in either of their fights. Looking at the triangle attempts, BJ never got his ankles above GSP's shoulders, that's just poor technique, he could of had a gi on and it probably wouldn't have worked. Now before you label me a GSP bitch, let me say this, I find most of his fights pretty boring, that and the whole Frenchy thing ills me to a great extent, almost as bad as Silva when he fights at MW, boring. Now the talk about roids use has more relevance. The man is basically shredded, yet he has bitch tits, to me that points to roid use, when I was using the more androgen rich juice, I always got bitch tits and for the most part the only way to get rid of them is surgery, look at his nipples and see how puffy they are. My guess is he's using fairly low dosages or he'd be like Randleman or Manhoef with his genetics.



I am not gonna argue the steroid allegations there never be more than accusations GSP has been tested over and over and never failed and he was pretty ripped even in his early TKO fights before he was training full time so I don't see why it would be crazy to think he would need to be juicing now. 

I do wonder who you are to critique BJ's BJJ? Not trying to be condencending but BJ is a former World Champion at the black belt level and one of the best BJJ guys in MMA today.

This leads me to the only thing I want to add since I was really on BJ's side when this went down but the Dan Hardy fight really exposed a lot to me about the legitimacy of BJ's claims. Am I the only one who finds it odd that Hardy who has never been known for his ground game and in fact has been known for it being his weakness was better able to neutralize GSP (remember that GSP's corner was not allowed to touch vasaline) than a world champion black belt who is renown for his guard? That was very suspicious for me at least, I knew GSP being considerably bigger and stronger helped him against BJ but I find it very hard to believe it had no effect when comparing his ease with Penn and relative troubles with Hardy on the ground.


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> That is where you are wrong. Did you watch the video? Did you watch the BJ fight? Did you watch the first BJ fight?
> 
> BJ Penn is infamous for his guard. GSP just slipped from his guard and advanced position. Any time BJ tried to use some offense from his back, he would just slip out of place.
> 
> ...


They are both different fighters from their first fight. Moreover, GSP is 3 times the fighter he was from their first fight. Greased or not, BJ did/would have gotten smashed.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SigFig said:


> I'm just gonna positive rep ya for being such a diligent troll McKeever. No time for more of this nonsense. Take care bud. War Hardy. War Penn.


You can take your rep and shove it up you're arse. The only one trolling here is you. 

Im trying to create sensible discussion on the issue and why it is overlooked by so many people.

You have had zero points against any of my arguments and result to trolling, pathetic.

WTF has dan hardy got to do with any thing? I couldnt care less about Dan Hardy, im not a fan.

@Toxic, thats a great point about the Hardy fight. I never even looked at it like that. Very interesting.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

I might be wrong but I don't believe B.J. has ever submitted an opponent from his back. I thought B.J. won the first bout between the two but I haven't watched it in forever and was probably just looking at the damage on Pierres face when I drew that conclusion. Either way, i think Georges would dominate him again and I'm sure the majority feel the same way.


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## rean1mator (Nov 20, 2006)

it's absolutely irrelevant as to whether GSP would have won with/without the greasing. that's not the point of the discussion and it's still just speculation. fact of the matter is you don't know what the outcome would have been.

it's about cheating and to big extent the real character of a fighter on initial impressions who seems to be honest.

and if he did grease which it appears that he did, the fact that he did being the calibur of fighter he supposedly is even worse imo. being the best in the world and still feeling like you have to cheat to win really says something about a person.



enceledus said:


> They are both different fighters from their first fight. Moreover, GSP is 3 times the fighter he was from their first fight. Greased or not, BJ did/would have gotten smashed.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Kenflo spoke to BJ prior to their second fight and said that he hopes BJ kicks gsps greasing ass. He then later denied these claims and is now training with gsp.
> 
> Sean Sherk has also stated that gsp was very slippery.


Then it boils down to if you believe Florian or Penn's PR team. Personally i believe Florian. I think after that fight Penn was willing to say and do anything to get his point across.

The fact is GSP has wrecked everyone he has come up against in the past 3 1/2 years, i don't think his legacy or what he has done for the sport should be questioned because of a guy touching his back with slippery hands, as wrong as it was.
IMO he should have been fined a HEFTY fine and his ring team had their licence taken away BUT you can't discredit GSP cos of it.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Toxic said:


> I am not gonna argue the steroid allegations there never be more than accusations GSP has been tested over and over and never failed and he was pretty ripped even in his early TKO fights before he was training full time so I don't see why it would be crazy to think he would need to be juicing now.
> 
> I do wonder who you are to critique BJ's BJJ? Not trying to be condencending but BJ is a former World Champion at the black belt level and one of the best BJJ guys in MMA today.
> 
> This leads me to the only thing I want to add since I was really on BJ's side when this went down but the Dan Hardy fight really exposed a lot to me about the legitimacy of BJ's claims. Am I the only one who finds it odd that Hardy who has never been known for his ground game and in fact has been known for it being his weakness was better able to neutralize GSP (remember that GSP's corner was not allowed to touch vasaline) than a world champion black belt who is renown for his guard? That was very suspicious for me at least, I knew GSP being considerably bigger and stronger helped him against BJ but I find it very hard to believe it had no effect when comparing his ease with Penn and relative troubles with Hardy on the ground.


This is a very good point.

Honestly, there are multiple fighters who say GSP felt slippery in their fight, we have video proof of GSP greasing in the fight, a rule was changed over the situation (thus meaning GSP did, in fact, grease).

GSP love or not, and the result of the fight or not, GSP and his camp cheated.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Ok you sucked me in, here are my answers.

People igonore/ get over the GSP grease incident because most people, even GSP accusers, agree he would have won the fight anyway.

Secondly, people aren't mad at GSP because of his previous personality, which indicates that he wouldn't grease on purpose (and I haven't seen or heard anything that proves he intentionally put vaseline on himself in order to neutralize BJ's guard). You can argue more credibly that he received an unfair advantage than say he knowingly cheated.

Also, the fact that he has won many fights since then, over arguably more dangerous challengers, doesn't allow people to pigeon hole St. Pierre as a fighter who can only beat elite opponents by cheating, he does so consistently anyway.

Lastly, the Hardy fight to me looked like GSP was trying too hard for subs. An accurate reference to his corner's attitude wasn't that they were exasperated that he COULDN'T GnP Hardy but that he wasn't even trying.

Hardy, hardly neutralized GSP, he was in some very precarious submission positions, which of course, BJ never found himself in.


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## MatParker116 (Feb 21, 2009)

It may have had something to do with GSP having 10-15 pounds of solid muscle on BJ by fight time.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

GSP = Greas Soaked Panzy 


Look he is a good fighter but for me the fact of the matter is that he did cheat and when confronted on the situation instead of admitting it like a man he made a smart ass remark about a girl kissing BJ.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

I don't see any clear evidence of GSP greasing in that. 

You want proof that GSP was greasing? Well look at this: there is vaseline in the hands of GSP's corner men! Not that it has a real purpose for preventing facial cuts...

Want more proof? He's pouring water on his head and body! Well if they have Vaseline in the corner, and bottles of water, obviously; they've mixed the two. It's the only logical conclusion. 

Want more proof? After they wipe him down, he's apparently still magically greasy... DUN DUN DAH!!!

And what was with the pointing out hits to the back of the head that didn't happen? All of those hits were legal, to the side of the head. Or what was with the subliminal messaging style editing?


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

edlavis88 said:


> It's pretty obvious that something a bit sketchy was going on, but no-one knows how much GSP was aware of it. So you cant catogorically call him a cheat.
> 
> He has said himself that he was aware of the commission saying something during the fight and rubbing him down, and he also offered BJ a rematch when the controversy arose, which would suggest he didn't know about it.
> Only GSP knows if he was aware of it, the rest is all speculation.
> ...


Quoted for truth. Now let's beat this dead horse some more.


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## sprawlbrawl (Apr 28, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSvVT0ZJvfE so rich is a greaser to check out the clob of vasaline on his left shoulder and you dont have to worry about that know the cornor is not allowed to apply vasilene only the cut man


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

"Georges is in trouble with the commission. The corner got caught rubbing Vaseline all over his back."

This video is quite the eye opener. I'd heard about GSP greasing, but didn't think it held much water. This video is a completely different story, and in all honesty, I've lost a lot of respect for him.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

No wonder GSP's shot is so fast.

Little did I know, vaseline decreases wind resistance, allowing GSP's bald head and vaseline enhanced shoulders to achieve optimal aerodynamic equilibrium.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Trix said:


> No wonder GSP's shot is so fast.
> 
> Little did I know, vaseline decreases wind resistance, allowing GSP's bald head and vaseline enhanced shoulders to achieve optimal aerodynamic equilibrium.


No one is saying that GSP is not a good fighter, but this videos is an eye opener, he is a great fighter that cheats.

Have to say I have commented on this before as well, I have never liked GSP's smug attitude, I really never see the guy as humble or respectful as he pretends to be, I always think he is very smug and false, he just pisses me off and always has.

I felt quite bad in the past for disliking him in case I was wrong about his false attitude that he shows the public, but now there is video evidence of him cheating I feel much better and can continue to dislike the guy with no guilt feelings.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> No one is saying that GSP is not a good fighter, but this videos is an eye opener, he is a great fighter that cheats.
> 
> Have to say I have commented on this before as well, I have never liked GSP's smug attitude, I really never see the guy as humble or respectful as he pretends to be, I always think he is very smug and false, he just pisses me off and always has.
> 
> I felt quite bad in the past for disliking him in case I was wrong about his false attitude that he shows the public, but now there is video evidence of him cheating I feel much better and can continue to dislike the guy with no guilt feelings.



This video also explains why GSP wears those tiny, tight, shorts. You can't easily grab a hold of them to take people down(like GSP does to Penn in that clip).

As naive and clueless as GSP may seem at times, it would appear he's very well educated in all the dirty aspects of the game.

I'm sure GSP will still beat Koscheck without his bra and panty stuffing campaign to give him an "edge".


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

From what I see in the unified MMA rules it isn't illegal to use vaseline. The only reference to vaseline or similar substances is something like "not an excessive amount". It wasn't, and still isn't as far as I know, illegal to use vaseline on yourself as long as it wasn't excessive so simply enough, GSP wasn't cheating.

Should it be? Obviously yes but why this isn't addressed in the rules I don't know.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Wow I wish this wasn't brought up again. All the GSP haters say he is a cheater and all of GSP fans defend him. It gets old. Imo, GSP didn't even do anything; it was Phil Nurse who was rubbing it on him. It is possible GSP was completely unaware that it was happening. And then of course Phil Nurse may have not even intended to do it like he claims, even though he may have. Either way, I don't think GSP is to blame, Phil Nurse is. 

And of course, GSP would have murdered Penn anyway even if they were completely clothed in Velcro.


That video is so much bullshit. Clearly made by a GSP hater. So many things were wrong with it. Not even going to waste my time in this thread anymore.


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## Whitehorizon (May 27, 2009)

Can't really contribute to the obvious. 

YET, Is it just me or who else finds it hilarious watching ESPN report on MMA? They always stumble over themselves to sound so professional about what the moves are and such. This video just made me laugh when they were talking about GSP and the Vaseline, and how it affected BJ.

Either way, Nice video shows a lot more than I was aware of. I have never seen any proof he did grease, though I never looked.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

diablo5597 said:


> That video is so much bullshit. Clearly made by a GSP hater. So many things were wrong with it. Not even going to waste my time in this thread anymore.


What's wrong with the video?


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## Whitehorizon (May 27, 2009)

UrbanBounca said:


> What's wrong with the video?


Not enough shots of GSP's nuts for him? :confused02:


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## tripster (Jun 5, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> Im not sure if you have watched all of the video, but make sure you do.
> 
> GSP clearly knew what was going on. 5 other UFC fighters have called him out on doing the same thing in other fights, are you suggesting he wanst aware of it on those fights either? Rubbish, GSP and his camp knew EXACTLY what they were doing.
> 
> The way i personally see it is this. GSP is mentally weak. He feels he has to add some thing else to his game to give him the edge over his opponent (greasing). I dont know why he would grease either, hes such a talented fighter, but i have lost all respect for the man. He is a fake and a cheat.


McKeever, you still crying about the HArdy loss? LEt it go brother. LEt it go or go get some therapy.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

UrbanBounca said:


> What's wrong with the video?


It's completely biased. It makes every point it can against GSP and and it doesn't make any points defending him. In responsible journalism, It would present the facts supporting GSP and the facts that are against GSP. For example, it shows Phil Nurse rubbing GSP and it doesn't say that GSP may have been unaware of what was going on. It shows Penn's leg slipping but it does not say that it may have been due to poor technique. It show shots to the side of his head and the video is making it seem like it was the back of the head. The whole video is filled with only things against GSP which makes it a biased piece of shit video. The maker clearly had the agenda to make GSP look bad no matter what.



Whitehorizon said:


> Not enough shots of GSP's nuts for him? :confused02:


Watch it bro. Not in the mood.


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## skinnyBIGGS (Jul 2, 2010)

OK didnt you watch the VIDEO , GSP is FULLY AWARE look at his eyes as he stares at the guy before he picks up the bottle and uses his other hand to block the view of him placing it in his pocket , well not too well as cameras picked it up...GSP EYEs showed FEAR legit fear that they were gonna get BUSTED!!!! Seriously this isnt a GSP basher as if its CLEAR facts how is it trash talking????


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## Whitehorizon (May 27, 2009)

diablo5597 said:


> It's completely biased. It makes every point it can against GSP and and it doesn't make any points defending him. In responsible journalism, It would present the facts supporting GSP and the facts that are against GSP. For example, it shows Phil Nurse rubbing GSP and it doesn't say that GSP may have been unaware of what was going on. It shows Penn's leg slipping but it does not say that it may have been due to poor technique. It show shots to the side of his head and the video is making it seem like it was the back of the head. The whole video is filled with only things against GSP which makes it a biased piece of shit video. The maker clearly had the agenda to make GSP look bad no matter what.
> 
> 
> 
> Watch it bro. Not in the mood.


First, I thought you were done with this thread and I was just screwing with you, accept the joke please, pretty please?

Second, After multiple times of it you would think he would start to get an idea... "Ok Phil is rubbing Vaseline all over my face, ok now hes rubbing my shoulders, and now..... my back wtf?" Yeah he is zoned into the fight I get that but seriously, he has to feel it too. Vaseline leaves a mucky feel on your skin hard to over look. Bj's technique did not appear to be lacking, rubber guard isn't hard to F up when you are at his level.

The only thing in that video I did not agree with was the punches to the back of the head. What else did you want to defend GSP in a video named Greasegate? Do you want them to show clips of him sitting in his corner without anyone touching him? Then we can all say, "Hey he never greased, its impossible! Look at this clip!" 

Seriously, not trying to be a dick but come on. Its plain and clear in the video he greased. He could be totally oblivious to the whole thing.... Until the commission toweled him off, and one of his corner guys tried to hide Vaseline in his pocket. 

Your angry he is being called a cheater im thinking, and that is understandable. But dont try and deny that the greasing happened. Even if it was only his camp, he is sponsoring his camp. What he does reflects on them and what they do obviously reflects on GSP.


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## skinnyBIGGS (Jul 2, 2010)

Whitehorizon said:


> First, I thought you were done with this thread and I was just screwing with you, accept the joke please, pretty please?
> 
> Second, After multiple times of it you would think he would start to get an idea... "Ok Phil is rubbing Vaseline all over my face, ok now hes rubbing my shoulders, and now..... my back wtf?" Yeah he is zoned into the fight I get that but seriously, he has to feel it too. Vaseline leaves a mucky feel on your skin hard to over look. Bj's technique did not appear to be lacking, rubber guard isn't hard to F up when you are at his level.
> 
> ...


Yes Indeed fellow viewer it seems people cant accept the fact especially when its RIGHT THERE!!! I always wanted to know about those grease allegations as if a world class fighter says somethings up , as well as almost every other fighter thats been in the cage with GSP there has too be some truth too it. And there it was i totally lost all respect for him and im praying he looses the title as if a UFC CHAMPION can achieve such a status doing something (corked bat MLB) that grants you a instant edge...isnt helping MMA sepeprate itself from the scandels that were all too well known within boxing


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Look diablo I was really pulling for gsp in this one and liked him allot but this changed things for me. The outcome of the fight makes no difference to me. The fact of the mater is that he did grease and you can try to shead the blame to crew but it still happened. 

What he should have done is when confronted about it came out and said it happened I'm sorry I didn't realize it until it was too late ( if that was true and could be legit) and I will give bj an immediate rematch. Had had he done that he would have completely out classed BJ and after beating him again would have restored his image. Had he done that I would still have respect for him. But instead he dodged the issue and made a smart ass remark about the girl kissing bj.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

diablo5597 said:


> It's completely biased. It makes every point it can against GSP and and it doesn't make any points defending him. In responsible journalism, It would present the facts supporting GSP and the facts that are against GSP.


well tbh if the video wasnt actually manipulated i dont see your point. either it showed him greasing or it didnt. The creator not beeing objective doesnt really matter in this case imo


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

N1™ said:


> well tbh if the video wasnt actually manipulated i dont see your point. either it showed him greasing or it didnt. The creator not beeing objective doesnt really matter in this case imo


It wasn't manipulated, but it was presented in an extremely biased fashion.


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## mratch19 (Nov 19, 2007)

the greasing accusation is fine, but to think he uses steroids is ridiculous, putting on 10 lbs of lean muscle mass is not difficult if what you do for a living is train and fight. almost all wrestlers i know can put on lean mass at will and are shredded. does he take something for performance? who knows. but there's no way he uses something illegal for extra muscle mass.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> *
> First things first, watch this entire video
> *
> 
> ...



Man my entire rep bar is RED because of this greasing thing (LOL). It really upset me when it happened so just like alot of other people here I had a hard time letting it go and had too get mt 2 cents in. 

But I realized that at the end of the day there is no getting through to GSP fans. They will hound you, ride you, and neg rep you..lol..untill you shutup...So eventually I just gave up, like many others did.


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## Belfort (Aug 4, 2009)

Very intersting video the obvious greasing is disgusting really, whether gsp would have won anyway is pretty irrelevant. I've never been a fan of GSP and that whole incident is just one more reason. Dude is a boring fighter and comes accross as a bit of an act. This will be the first time i will be supporting Kos in a fight :confused05:


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## BD3 (Jun 8, 2010)

Wow. I didn't know it was this clear as day. He just lost a bit of respect...


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

UrbanBounca said:


> "Georges is in trouble with the commission. The corner got caught rubbing Vaseline all over his back."
> 
> This video is quite the eye opener. I'd heard about GSP greasing, but didn't think it held much water. This video is a completely different story, and in all honesty, I've lost a lot of respect for him.


(Not to single you out, alot of people seem to think this)
It shouldn't be an eye opener. Not only was all this video released right after the fight, but none of it even matters. The text in the video that states it is illegal to rub vaseline on the body is false. 

It was not illegal and I challenge anyone on this forums to link me a rule in nevada state athletic c. that says otherwise (dated to the fight or previous).

There is no rule against what GSP did, and while many people may view it is unfair and highly unprofessional, in the process perhaps losing respect for him, it was not illegal.

PS: don't link me the boxing rule that states excessive oils may not be applied to the body. That is for boxing and under the category "appearance".


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## MLD (Oct 15, 2006)

Well I had a long and perfectly worded post ready to go, but then lost it somehow?? So now I'm too lazy to write it all again. I'll just say, like Ape City mentions, this was not "illegal" activity per the rules at the time. It may be shady, but not illegal. The NSAC is 100% to blame for this controversy. If they noticed greasing, made him wipe off, deemed everything okay, and let the fight continue, then they are responsible for the controversy. They should have stopped the fight if it was a problem. I'd be pissed if I was BJ too, but all pro atheletes look for an edge. It is the responsibility of the governing agancies to make and enforce rules. Sports would not work if it was the responsibility of the atheletes to govern themselves. I'm really surprised more people haven't mentioned this aspect. To me it is the biggest blunder of them all.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

KillerShark1985 said:


> No one is saying that GSP is not a good fighter, but this videos is an eye opener, he is a great fighter that cheats.


He did not cheat.

It was dishonerable, even cheap, but he did not cheat.



MLD said:


> Well I had a long and perfectly worded post ready to go, but then lost it somehow?? So now I'm too lazy to write it all again. I'll just say, like Ape City mentions, this was not "illegal" activity per the rules at the time. It may be shady, but not illegal. The NSAC is 100% to blame for this controversy. If they noticed greasing, made him wipe off, deemed everything okay, and let the fight continue, then they are responsible for the controversy. They should have stopped the fight if it was a problem. I'd be pissed if I was BJ too, but all pro atheletes look for an edge. It is the responsibility of the governing agancies to make and enforce rules. Sports would not work if it was the responsibility of the atheletes to govern themselves. I'm really surprised more people haven't mentioned this aspect. To me it is the biggest blunder of them all.


Well said! I find it hilarious that noone talks about the actually rules and just calls him a cheater. I think it should be illegal, and I think it should be cheating...but it wasn't!


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

So, if something is "technically" not cheating, yet everyone pretty much agrees that only a total douchebag of a person who deserves 0 respect would do such a thing, that makes it ok?

It's an "eye opener" for some people because these people probably thought GSP was telling the truth, but after seeing the video, now see he is a douchebag, which is an eye opener.

Cheating or not, GSP SHOULD lose respect for being a part of such a thing. Not that I hate him or any such thing, but if anyone does such a douche move in a fight, it naturally makes people lose respect for him.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

But doesn't the fact it wasn't against the rules play a factor? Do we hate Royce Gracie because he kneed guys in the balls on purpose, because it is cheap, even though it wasn'tagainst the rules (at the time)?

I think it is just a situation where you have a young sport that had a set of very outdated rules that did not factor such a thing into the equation. GSP/his corner/whoever-you-want-to-blame thinks "hey, it isn't against the rules to toss some vaseline on him while we rub his face, so why not? It can't hurt!".

Clearly I understand why some people would lose respect for him, I really do. I just feel like when you have an athlete that is set on achieving above and beyond everyone else, who surrounds himself with the same kind of people, you are going to use every tool available to you to win. Nothing matters except what is written in stone when creating a super athlete.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> So, if something is "technically" not cheating, yet everyone pretty much agrees that only a total douchebag of a person who deserves 0 respect would do such a thing, that makes it ok?


I don't see anyone saying it is ok. The point is, it wasn't against the rules (and still isn't as far as I know!) so it isn't cheating, period. Obviously it can still be wrong and not be against the rules.

Should it be? Of course, the biggest issue here is getting completely overlooked. Why the hell ISN'T this illegal? What blows me away is they changed the rules after this fight and STILL got it wrong. They changed the number of people who can be in the cage or who can handle the vaseline or whatever. Uhhh, so? How about this:

It is illegal to apply vaseline anywhere except the face and not an excessive amount.

I can't understand why they don't change that wording.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Ape City said:


> But doesn't the fact it wasn't against the rules play a factor? Do we hate Royce Gracie because he kneed guys in the balls on purpose, because it is cheap, even though it wasn'tagainst the rules (at the time)?
> 
> I think it is just a situation where you have a young sport that had a set of very outdated rules that did not factor such a thing into the equation. GSP/his corner/whoever-you-want-to-blame thinks "hey, it isn't against the rules to toss some vaseline on him while we rub his face, so why not? It can't hurt!".
> 
> Clearly I understand why some people would lose respect for him, I really do. I just feel like when you have an athlete that is set on achieving above and beyond everyone else, who surrounds himself with the same kind of people, you are going to use every tool available to you to win. Nothing matters except what is written in stone when creating a super athlete.


No, it doesn't matter that it might not be "technically" against the rules.

It isn't against the rules to pretend that when you get with a knee on the ground, it hurts so bad you can't continue to fight, even though hundreds of people used to fight in PRIDE and other orgs, getting hit with multiple knees, and continue no problem.

If you do something that only a classless douchebag would do, then you are a classless douchebag, and you deserve no respect whatsoever, especially if you deny it, even when there is video proof.

GSP and his team are 500% wrong in this situation, and they made light of it as if nothing wrong was done, and GSP didn't admit to doing it. He didn't apologize or anything, he just went with whatever happened, when he and his team clearly, on video, did it.

It being legal or not legal, does not matter.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Guess we have to agree to disagree then. I think rules matter. I'll say it again: I understand where you and everyone else is coming from when you say you have lost repect for GSP. I personally think that you should be allowed to do anything within the rules to win and it is a fault of the rules and the athletic commision if a fighter is able to abuse them.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Fair enough, honestly, there's not a whole lot to debate other than "he is wrong for doing it" and "he didn't do anything wrong", so there's really not much of a point, especially when it's been debated ever since it happened.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

It was against the rules they didn't overturn the decision because they are cowards who refuse to set any kind of precedent that shows they fucked up. The fight should have been stopped when they caught him with GSP being disqualified. It is the same thing with horrible judging the NSAC never fires judges for incompetence because they think it would make them look bad. It was already illegal to cover your body in vaseline the only change they made was clarifying the rule and making all greasing agents a foul. The old rule was that you can't have an excess amount of vaseline applied which this incident did violate because the only place you are allowed to put vaseline is on the face and cuts.


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## log (Jul 19, 2010)

You people realize you are putting so much discussion on a fanboy edited video that shows about 10 seconds of actual action in a fight that lasted 20 minutes. 

1. Watch the entire fight again.

http://mmavideolinks.to/fighter-videos/52/4077-george-st-pierre-vs-bj-penn-2.html

Now ask yourself the following question: 

*How does vaseline help GSP out in the clinch/muai thai/boxing match that is over 1/4 of the fight? The entire first round and the start of the second round, BJ was dominated, and the fight had not even gotten to the ground at this point where the claim is vaseline was a factor.*

A lot of people talk about how BJ's game is the 'rubber guard', but not a single person can remember the last time BJ Penn has won a fight where he has been on his back AT ALL during a fight. Nevermind the fact that he has never submitted anyone in the UFC while in any type of 'rubber' guard. Yet his defenders keep saying this is his golden arrow?

Anyway, let's address the vaseline. 

At the time of this fight, EVERY fighter came into the cage with excessive amounts of vaseline on the face and at times the body. Google Bonner vs Griffen, Silva vs Franklin, Sanchez vs Riggs and look at the amount of vaseline they have on them when they enter the Octagon or during the fight. 

*In most cases fighters had so much of it on there face, they would actually take it off and rub it on there bodies. * 

Now remember, this is the actual *FIGHTERS THEMSELVES *taking vaseline off the facial region and putting it on there bodies. I have seen it dozens of times, and here is just one example from none other than the POUND FOR POUND BEST FIGHTER ANDERSON SILVA

2. http://insidefights.com/2009/04/19/did-anderson-silva-cheat/

I bet 90% of this forum never even heard about it. Reason is simple, his competitor (who was Laites, a guy whose ONLY game is BJJ and would have everything to cry about when it comes to greasing)never cried foul when Silva beat him. 

Fact is BJ *WAS* (I emphasis was because since the GSP fight, he has become a more humble, less excuses fighter)a warrior who could not accept that a better man beat him. For every loss *at that time* that he had, there was always an excuse. 

3. Here is the last and most important point. 

If BJ thought George had greased, and felt it at ANY POINT during the fight *why did he not say a single thing during the fight?* 

I mean if he felt the grease, why didn't he do something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6q_wVodzFU

For all the people saying GSP should know this or that, not a single person here has asked the obvious question. Why didnt BJ voice a single thing *during *the fight? He didn't say a thing to Herb Dean, he didn't say a thing to his corner. He just sat there and took a beating.

The fact is, BJ was outclassed in this fight. He called GSP a quitter, it was documented that he skipped out from practice before the fight, and he fought GSP thinking GSP was the same fighter he faced before. He was just wrong. It happens.

The great thing about this for BJ though, is that he has completely changed since that fight. He trains hard, he is humble, and doesn't make any excuses when he loses now.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Eh.

Its possible GSP didn't know it was against the rules.

There was a fight where Yushin Okami had Anderson Silva on his back, and Silva KO'ed Okami with a kick -- not knowing it was against the rules.

With fighters who don't speak the best of english, it happens, sometimes.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Anderson would have put it on his legs if he was trying to cheat not his chest. He was removing the excess vaseline because it bothers him and he has complained about it in the past. That isn't the same thing as a cornerman adding vaseline either way.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

log said:


> You people realize you are putting so much discussion on a fanboy edited video that shows about 10 seconds of actual action in a fight that lasted 20 minutes.
> 
> 1. Watch the entire fight again.
> 
> ...


Welcome to forum. Great 1st post my man.


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## log (Jul 19, 2010)

osmium said:


> Anderson would have put it on his legs if he was trying to cheat not his chest. He was removing the excess vaseline because it bothers him and he has complained about it in the past. That isn't the same thing as a cornerman adding vaseline either way.


Hi Osmium - fair enough, any answer for point 1 or point 3?


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

log said:


> Hi Osmium - fair enough, any answer for point 1 or point 3?


yes here is point 1















and here is point 3


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

log said:


> Hi Osmium - fair enough, any answer for point 1 or point 3?


It is irrelevant whether or not it impacted who won the fight it is still against the rules and was clearly a detriment to Penn in any way it impacted the fight whether small or large. That is like saying if Brock fought Faber and took steroids before the fight it is alright because it didn't matter anyways.

I don't know whether or not he complained and I am sure he was aware of what was going on to some degree when the NSAC was toweling off GSP. If they were going to allow the fight to continue when they caught his cornerman doing it they weren't going to stop it if BJ protested. 

The rib thing wasn't an excuse BJ does not have a history of making excuses for losses. He was being questioned about his cardio and explained that he suffered a rib injury in the fight and it wasn't poor cardio.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

ok lets say its not against the rules

then why did

1. the commish step in and stop them
2. why did it seem like GSP and his cornermen got a little anxious when they did
3. chuck liddell protest against it during the fight
4. BJ Penn, who i am sure knows about the rules go thru all he did with the legal matters and whatnot
5. did Dana say that if he did it it was a very serious matter

?


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

log said:


> You people realize you are putting so much discussion on a fanboy edited video that shows about 10 seconds of actual action in a fight that lasted 20 minutes.
> 
> 1. Watch the entire fight again.
> 
> ...


Quoted for damn truth. Man it's nice to see some logic in a thread filled with fanboy hate. Getting a BJ fan to admit he got his ass kicked is like getting an alcoholic to admit he has a problem. It happens few and far between no matter how bad the problem is.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

log said:


> You people realize you are putting so much discussion on a fanboy edited video that shows about 10 seconds of actual action in a fight that lasted 20 minutes.
> 
> 1. Watch the entire fight again.
> 
> ...


Stopped reading after the first paragraph. The entire first round was gsp stalling bj at the cage and failing to take him down with multiple single leg take downs. i know since i watched the fight again yesterday. That isnt my idea of domination. The boxing, kick boxing in round 1 and half of round 2 was about even.


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## suffersystem (Feb 4, 2007)

guy incognito said:


> yes here is point 1
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This has to be the stupidest ******* post I have ever seen on here. Yeah, great counter argument! The dude is hanging out with a bunch of other dudes, he's obviously gay so he must have cheated.


Sorry, but this post should just be deleted as it has absolutely nothign to do with anything in this thread.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

OMG! I was upset about this whole issue when it was fresh, but jeez guys this is so yesterdays subject. It's like arguing about disco or prohibition.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

osmium said:


> *It was against the rules *they didn't overturn the decision because they are cowards who refuse to set any kind of precedent that shows they fucked up. The fight should have been stopped when they caught him with GSP being disqualified. It is the same thing with horrible judging the NSAC never fires judges for incompetence because they think it would make them look bad. It was already illegal to cover your body in vaseline the only change they made was clarifying the rule and making all greasing agents a foul. The old rule was that you can't have an excess amount of vaseline applied which this incident did violate because the only place you are allowed to put vaseline is on the face and cuts.


No it wasn't. Link me the rule. I'll say it again, I challenge any of you to link me a rule that dates to the fight or previous stating what happened was illegal. You won't do it because you can't, and you are wrong.

The rule you are paraphrasing is from NSAC, under boxing, under appearance. It was a rule designed purely to keep fighters looking clean and professional and was never intended to be used for MMA or an instance like this.


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## skinnyBIGGS (Jul 2, 2010)

Ape City said:


> No it wasn't. Link me the rule. I'll say it again, I challenge any of you to link me a rule that dates to the fight or previous stating what happened was illegal. You won't do it because you can't, and you are wrong.
> 
> The rule you are paraphrasing is from NSAC, under boxing, under appearance. It was a rule designed purely to keep fighters looking clean and professional and was never intended to be used for MMA or an instance like this.


Soo it wasnt illegal but it was cheap and every fighter in the UFC looks at him in a diff way so it really doesn't matter what we all think , GSP lost alot of peers that nite and that will be his downfall as noone wants to work and train with a person that has to use something for his advantage, you seem to b overlooking the essential POINT that one fighter did something to gain a edge while the other fighter did nothing but use his talent and skill..


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

N1™;1228900 said:


> ok lets say its not against the rules
> 
> then why did
> 
> ...


Because it is clearly unsportsmanlike and cheap. Why was nothing ever done? It wasn't against the rules at the time.

I said it when this actually happened 10 000 years ago: The lack of a solid specific rule in reference to oiling the body was glaring and embarrassing ommission from the rule books. But the fact is it wasn't there at the time.




skinnyBIGGS said:


> Soo it wasnt illegal but it was cheap and every fighter in the UFC looks at him in a diff way so it really doesn't matter what we all think , GSP lost alot of peers that nite and that will be his downfall as noone wants to work and train with a person that has to use something for his advantage, you seem to b overlooking the essential POINT that one fighter did something to gain a edge while the other fighter did nothing but use his talent and skill..


I'm not overlooking anything. I havn't even given my personal opinion at any point in this thread. If someone asks me what I think of GSP then I will weigh in on how this affected my outlook. I am simply trying to correct all of you that are saying "GSP is a cheater!!". You can't cheat if it isn't against the rules.

Akiyama cheated when he greased. K-1 had a specific rule stating no oils could be applied to the body at any time.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Ape City said:


> (Not to single you out, alot of people seem to think this)
> It shouldn't be an eye opener. Not only was all this video released right after the fight, but none of it even matters. The text in the video that states it is illegal to rub vaseline on the body is false.
> 
> It was not illegal and I challenge anyone on this forums to link me a rule in nevada state athletic c. that says otherwise (dated to the fight or previous).
> ...


First and foremost, where does it say it's 'specifically for Boxing'? Secondly, it does state that no fighter should have an excessive amount of 'oil or grease' on their 'face or body'. How else could that be interpreted?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

UrbanBounca said:


> First and foremost, where does it say it's 'specifically for Boxing'?


Someone posted in back when it happened...I looked for a few min but all I found was http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nac/NAC-467.html.

I don't see any mention of oils anywhere from my scan.



> Secondly, it does state that no fighter should have an excessive amount of 'oil or grease' on their 'face or body'. How else could that be interpreted?


What document states this and did it say that when GSP fought BJ or was it altered after ebcause of that?

Also what is considered excessive? It doesn't say he cannot have any.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Ape City said:


> Someone posted in back when it happened...I looked for a few min but all I found was http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nac/NAC-467.html.
> 
> I don't see any mention of oils anywhere from my scan.
> 
> ...





> *NAC 467.598 Physical appearance of unarmed combatants. (NRS 467.030)*
> 
> 2. The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant. The referees or the Commission’s representative in charge shall cause any excessive grease or foreign substance to be removed.


Source

'Excessive grease' is determined by the referee or Commission representative. In the OP's video, the Commission representative obviously thought there was too much 'grease' being applied to GSP. Not to mention, Dana's quote in the video is proof enough that the Commission wasn't happy about the greasing.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Yeah this has never been forgotten in my eyes, hence why he isnt in my top favorite fighters


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

"The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant. The referees or the Commission’s representative in charge shall cause any excessive grease or foreign substance to be removed."

Okay, so the "excessive" grease was removed. How is he a cheater? The rules were followed.

There is nothing that says "the *any* use of grease is considered a serious violation and point may be deducted or matches overturned etc". 

I just think it is somthing that was never made into a violation because they didn't realize how important it was.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Ape City said:


> "The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant. The referees or the Commission’s representative in charge shall cause any excessive grease or foreign substance to be removed."
> 
> Okay, so the "excessive" grease was removed. How is he a cheater? The rules were followed.





> *The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant.*


I want you to go put Vaseline on your hand, and wipe it with a towel. Did it remove all the grease, especially with a mixture of sweat? No, not even close.

The point is, GSP broke the rules by applying 'excessive' grease in the first place. The Commission tried to remove it, but when all is said and done, you can't remove Vaseline without basically taking a shower or scrubbing him down. He was wiped, not scrubbed.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

After so much discussion previously I am really surprised this thread is still alive.



UrbanBounca said:


> I want you to go put Vaseline on your hand, and wipe it with a towel. Did it remove all the grease, especially with a mixture of sweat? No, not even close.
> 
> The point is, GSP broke the rules by applying 'excessive' grease in the first place. The Commission tried to remove it, but when all is said and done, you can't remove Vaseline without basically taking a shower or scrubbing him down. He was wiped, not scrubbed.


Don't forget, he had it on him from the first round and I think they finally caught it in the 3rd. 2 rounds with a slippery GSP is cruel and unusual punishment.


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## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

skinnyBIGGS said:


> Soo it wasnt illegal but it was cheap and every fighter in the UFC looks at him in a diff way so it really doesn't matter what we all think , GSP lost alot of peers that nite and that will be his downfall as noone wants to work and train with a person that has to use something for his advantage, you seem to b overlooking the essential POINT that one fighter did something to gain a edge while the other fighter did nothing but use his talent and skill..


With that kind of reasoning, maybe they should limit the amount of training fighters can do, so that no one trains harder then the laziest fighter. You wouldn't want a fighter training as hard as humanly possible to gain an edge. If BJ had gotten his legs up over GSP's shoulder like you're supposed to, he would have been fine. Go back and look at the fight, he never clears GSP's shoulder, even if GSP had a gi on BJ couldn't lock up the choke until he clears the shoulders.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

edlavis88 said:


> It's pretty obvious that something a bit sketchy was going on, but no-one knows how much GSP was aware of it. So you cant catogorically call him a cheat.


Hahaha...spoken like a true blind fanboy. "He might not have known about it...so he can't be called a cheat." Cause you know, GSP wasn't there at the time Phil Nurse was rubbing vasoline on...GSP's body.

I also like the logic of "okay, the grease was wiped off..how can be become a cheat?"

I like that. GSP was eye gouging in the first round..but he was told to stop in the second round. How did he cheat?

And then this idea of "it's more of the commissions fault for not implicating the rule on it." Heh, interesting, love that argument. So if I'm playing Monopoly, and I lift some cash from the bank without my friends looking..."technically"..it's not cheating, because it doesn't say in the rulebook that I can take money from the bank without earning it.

Trust me, every argument on this defending GSP is a loose end...

GSP fans are ******* stupid.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

From watching GSP over the years, in fights, interviews, docs etc. I'm actually fully convinced that he's so pathologically addicted to winning that he would do anything in his power to do so. Not taking away from him as a fighter, but I honestly believe he's obsessed. Hence his 'safe' fighting style right now, and not fighting often.


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## MLD (Oct 15, 2006)

UrbanBounca said:


> I want you to go put Vaseline on your hand, and wipe it with a towel. Did it remove all the grease, especially with a mixture of sweat? No, not even close.
> 
> The point is, GSP broke the rules by applying 'excessive' grease in the first place. The Commission tried to remove it, but when all is said and done, you can't remove Vaseline without basically taking a shower or scrubbing him down. He was wiped, not scrubbed.


Wouldn't it be the responsibility of the commission to the stop the fight if they detected foul play that couldn't be remedied between rounds? If the answer is yes, then they failed miserably. Regardless of what people think of either fighter, how in the hell could the NSAC be held blameless in all of this? The governing body must govern. Sports cannot rely on atheletes too keep everything fair and honest. What sport does? GSP may be a douche for doing this, but the commision is the group responsible for leeting this controversy take place. They knew enough to watch him and make him wipe off...


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Hahaha...spoken like a true blind fanboy. "He might not have known about it...so he can't be called a cheat." Cause you know, GSP wasn't there at the time Phil Nurse was rubbing vasoline on...GSP's body.
> 
> I also like the logic of "okay, the grease was wiped off..how can be become a cheat?"
> 
> ...


What a fuc*ing retarded and ignorant thing to say...


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

MLD said:


> Wouldn't it be the responsibility of the commission to the stop the fight if they detected foul play that couldn't be remedied between rounds? If the answer is yes, then they failed miserably. Regardless of what people think of either fighter, how in the hell could the NSAC be held blameless in all of this? The governing body must govern. Sports cannot rely on atheletes too keep everything fair and honest. What sport does? GSP may be a douche for doing this, but the commision is the group responsible for leeting this controversy take place. They knew enough to watch him and make him wipe off...


I never said I don't hold the Commission partially responsible. But, blaming the Commission doesn't make GSP any-less guilty. I was never really a huge GSP fan, but this definately doesn't help his case.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Let's not start taking shots at each other. Oh gee. I NEVER thought this thread would come to this. Oh, how astounding.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

swpthleg said:


> Let's not start taking shots at each other. Oh gee. I NEVER thought this thread would come to this. Oh, how astounding.


This is like deja vu all over again.


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## Rationalist (Oct 15, 2006)

</endthread>


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

diablo5597 said:


> What a fuc*ing retarded and ignorant thing to say...


Open your eyes. READ the excuses these people are using. He didn't know, it's more of the commissions fault, he "stopped doing it" so he's not a cheater? If that isn't stupidity and fanboyism, I don't know what is.


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## Johnni G (Dec 2, 2009)

I actually havent seen this.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

I just re-watched Serra vs GSP 2 at UFC 83, when GSP won the title back, you could see them greasing his back up in that fight as well at the end of round 1, and you could see in the fight that Serra could not hold guard around GSP's body cos every time he tried his legs slipped down him to his shorts, forcing serra to try and hold half guard on GSP's leg whcih lead to Serra been forced to turn and give up his back which lead to his second round TKO.

So technically GSP won the title via been a cheating greasing prick, yet they call this guy the best P4P fighter in the world, what a low life scum bag.

And watch this video, and you can add been a lier to his list of sins






Cant embed so link is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UEwTms36Es


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> I just re-watched Serra vs GSP 2 at UFC 83, when GSP won the title back, you could see them greasing his back up in that fight as well at the end of round 1, and you could see in the fight that Serra could not hold guard around GSP's body cos every time he tried his legs slipped down him to his shorts, forcing serra to try and hold half guard on GSP's leg whcih lead to Serra been forced to turn and give up his back which lead to his second round TKO.
> 
> So technically GSP won the title via been a cheating greasing prick, yet they call this guy the best P4P fighter in the world, what a low life scum bag.












God this stuff gets old! Go watch JDS/NELSON or any number of recent fights and see the corner men rubbing the fighters back! All these bloody greasers! Sigh!


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

edlavis88 said:


> God this stuff gets old! Go watch JDS/NELSON or any number of recent fights and see the corner men rubbing the fighters back! All these bloody greasers! Sigh!


LMFAOOOO!!


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

edlavis88 said:


> God this stuff gets old! Go watch JDS/NELSON or any number of recent fights and see the corner men rubbing the fighters back! All these bloody greasers! Sigh!


:thumb02:


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

It's crazy reading all the illogical drivel that the GSP fans say in order to defend him. Now imagine if this was Koscheck or Lesnar, I doubt they would get the same treatment. Blind Nuthuggery FTW.


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## Inferno (Jan 19, 2010)




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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

I lost a ton of respect for GSP when this got out. He should have been fined, suspended, and the fight should have been ruled a no contest.

GSP brought shame to MMA in my opinion.

Its obvious from watching the little clip that BJ was having trouble utilising a high guard, and GSP postures and literally slides through it. Its one thing to power through, its another thing to slide through due to grease.

Some of the vaseline is absorbed by the skin and gets into pores. Even though the comission wiped GSP's body, as soon as he starts to sweat that vaseline gets secreted out of the pores of his skin. Disgraceful.


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## sprawlbrawl (Apr 28, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> *
> First things first, watch this entire video
> *
> 
> ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSvVT0ZJvfE 


i would loke to know why everyone pics on gsp when other do it as well look at the glob on riches shoulder


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

The Lone Wolf said:


> Its obvious from watching the little clip that BJ was having trouble utilising a high guard, and GSP postures and literally slides through it. Its one thing to power through, its another thing to slide through due to grease.
> .



When a video is that biased and shows the same clips over and over it is pretty hard to come away with anything except that opinion.

I don't mind people accusing gps of greasin, believing he did it excessively (that is the real issue, _excess_, the rules state no _excess_) or losing respect for him for doing so.

What does annoy the hell out of me is when people watch an absolute piece of crap like this, which makes no attempt whatsoever to stay unbiased, and think "wow that proves it!". 

Later I'll show you guys a video of dinosaurs walking with humans.



sprawlbrawl said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSvVT0ZJvfE
> 
> 
> i would loke to know why everyone pics on gsp when other do it as well look at the glob on riches shoulder


Tons of fighters do it and have done it. It was never against the rules; the rules stated fighters cannot have an "excess" amount of grease, which is a very vague term that needed to be redefined. What is excessive? It can't be none or they would have written none.

Since most people are sheep they watch this video and assume GSP is the only one to ever do it, assume it is illegal, and assume he got away with somthing.


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## KEYZER-SOZE (Jul 31, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> *
> First things first, watch this entire video
> *
> 
> ...











im a big bj fan but why beat a dead horse bruh this s**ts been covered/argued/debated/disected 10 times over give it a rest


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## fullcontact (Sep 16, 2006)

Ape City said:


> When a video is that biased and shows the same clips over and over it is pretty hard to come away with anything except that opinion.
> 
> I don't mind people accusing gps of greasin, believing he did it excessively (that is the real issue, _excess_, the rules state no _excess_) or losing respect for him for doing so.
> 
> ...


So you are assuming it is legal? Or he is doing in in a tolerable amount? 
If that was so, why doesn't GSP just come clean and admit he applies grease or oil on his body, but only within "the tolerated" amount.

The question is not whether other people have done it, the question is whether HE, GSP, has done it.

Obviously other fighters have used this sneky and frowned upon method.¨
I have seen Rich Franklin's cornerman rubbing his body and I remember other UFC fighters being accused og this. But that is not what we are currently discussing.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Ape City said:


> ...Since most people are sheep...


:happy01:


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Most fighters have had their corner men do something that isn't strictly leagal. I mean even at 117 both JDS and Guida had guys rubbing their back who i'm sure weren't allowed to.

It's just that convieniently people only remember it when it is a fighter they dont like doing it!


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## Johnni G (Dec 2, 2009)

Greasy little guy


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

KEYZER-SOZE said:


> im a big bj fan but why beat a dead horse bruh this s**ts been covered/argued/debated/disected 10 times over give it a rest


Clearly people feel the need to discuss the issue more, given the fact that this thread has 13 pages and is a very controversial topic. I and a few other members on here had never actually seen that video until i made the thread also.



edlavis88 said:


> Most fighters have had their corner men do something that isn't strictly leagal. I mean even at 117 both JDS and Guida had guys rubbing their back who i'm sure weren't allowed to.
> 
> It's just that convieniently people only remember it when it is a fighter they dont like doing it!


Unless i see a solid video and proof like in the you tube video i posted i have no reason to believe jds and guida having their backs rubs meant they were having vaseline applied to their body. Like i said, im a big BJ fan and was very sceptical about the whole greasing thing in the first place, watching that video 100 percent proves GSP was greasing and proves it gave him an advantage in the fight, there is no denying it.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Like i said, im a big BJ fan and was very sceptical about the whole greasing thing in the first place, watching that video 100 percent proves GSP was greasing and proves it gave him an advantage in the fight, there is no denying it.


 The only thing there is no denying is that you, and a lot of other people either 

a) don't know how to read
b) don't know what the word 'rule' or 'rulebook', mean.

I've said this before, and I shouldn't waste my time doing it again, but I'll try one last time.

READ....THE....RULEBOOK.

The rule regarding greasing at the time of the GSP-Penn II makes it perfectly clear that GSP did not do anything wrong. I don't think there was any intent to gain an advantage by greasing by GSP, but it wouldn't matter if he stood up right now, and said, "Yeah suckers I used grease in every fight, especially that one, boo-ya!" 

You know what the UFC and the athletic commission would do if that happened?

The same thing they did when it was investigated. Nothing. Because they understand the very basic concept which you and so many other fail to grasp.

No rules were broken, therefore, there is nothing to punish.

If you don't like the rule, complain about the rule, lobby to get it changed, which it was. That was good because it was retarded beyond belief, and just so you know, it still is. Even according to the change, you are still allowed to put some grease on, they just limited the number of people allowed to do it. But how you can still be complaining years later about someone doing something, that isn't against the rules is beyond me. It's like someone watching the old UFC videos and screaming, 'OMG ROYCE GRACIE IZ A CHEATER, HE PULLED HIAR, HE KIKED PEPLE IN THE GROIN, CHEEEEEETER.' 

Those things weren't against the rules at the time, so....try to follow here.....its not cheating.

GSP didn't break the rules, get over it. If you have a problem with the rules, talk about the rules and how they should be changed.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Finnsidious said:


> The only thing there is no denying is that you, and a lot of other people either
> 
> a) don't know how to read
> b) don't know what the word 'rule' or 'rulebook', mean.
> ...




So, in your opinion, what was the commissioner complaining about?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Finnsidious said:


> The only thing there is no denying is that you, and a lot of other people either
> 
> a) don't know how to read
> b) don't know what the word 'rule' or 'rulebook', mean.
> ...


Here were the rules:

Quote:
The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant.
I want you to go put Vaseline on your hand, and wipe it with a towel. Did it remove all the grease, especially with a mixture of sweat? No, not even close.

The point is, GSP broke the rules by applying 'excessive' grease in the first place. The Commission tried to remove it, but when all is said and done, you can't remove Vaseline without basically taking a shower or scrubbing him down. He was wiped, not scrubbed.

I get it, you have a GSP poster in your bed room and he cant ever do no wrong! Hes a fake and a cheater.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

AmdM said:


> So, in your opinion, what was the commissioner complaining about?


He understood that the rule was and is crap. He was frustrated because he realized that it was his job to make sure the rules made sense and they didn't. You don't blame the fighters for that. You blame the UFC and the commission.

It reminds me of the Anthony Johnson-Kevin Burns fight when everyone bitched about the fight not being ruled a no contest and why didn't they do something about it? They didn't do anything, because they couldn't. The rules, as they were written, simply did not allow a fight outcome to be changed because of a referee's mistake. The problem is not with the eye poke, because stuff like that happens. 

The problem is they did not have an adequate method in place to deal with the kind of unforseen situations that will arise in any professional sport. Another example would be the recent Silva-Sonnen fight. What if the ref hadn't seen through Sonnen's douching at the end, and Silva lets go the hold, and Sonnen keeps pretending he didn't tap? All hell would have broken loose, and the UFC wouldn't have known what the hell to do.

MMA is still a young sport, and this is an issue they need to address. The rules of the UFC and the relationship with the Athletic commissions have to be 100% clear and unexploitable, and right now, they are not.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

The Lone Wolf said:


> I lost a ton of respect for GSP when this got out. He should have been fined, suspended, and the fight should have been ruled a no contest.
> 
> GSP brought shame to MMA in my opinion.
> 
> ...


Can a guy not criticize GSP on these forums without getting neg repped? Jeeez! You guys are phucking crazy!



Ape City said:


> When a video is that biased and shows the same clips over and over it is pretty hard to come away with anything except that opinion.
> 
> I don't mind people accusing gps of greasin, believing he did it excessively (that is the real issue, _excess_, the rules state no _excess_) or losing respect for him for doing so.
> 
> ...



I havent based my view on this little clip, i suspected he was greasing when i was watching the event live and since then its been proven, and thats enough for me to form an opinion. A biased video clip like this makes no difference to the truth of the matter - GSP greased, and it gave him an unfair advantage.

Regardless of whether its happened before, it doesnt mean this incident should be overlooked. It just so happens that GSP is one of the most popular UFC fighters out there, and when youre in the spotlight, shit like this doesnt go unnoticed.

And those who's lips have formed a vacuum around GSP's nuts, quit neg repping people for their opinion on a controversial subject. You kids are acting like i just walked into Christmas Day Mass and took a shit in the manger. :sarcastic12:


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Here were the rules:
> 
> Quote:
> The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant.
> ...


 "The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance"

See the problem here? What's excessive? 1 ounce? 2 ounces? How about 3? It doesn't say and thats the issue, clarity.

The rule was useless because the word 'excessive' is completely subjective. Anyone could put as much stuff on as they liked, and claim it wasn't excessive, and the rules couldn't contradict them, because it didn't, (and still doesn't!) specify exactly how much is allowed.

You say the amount GSP used was excessive, but that is entirely your opinion. Without a specific hard number to use, the rule was and is useless. There is a reason no one was ever punished for the incident, and it has nothing to do with any absurd conspiracy theories. It was because the commission knew that fighters could use as much as they liked, because 'excessive' is subjective and it would therefore be impossible to punish someone for using 'excessive' substances, because you can't define excessive objectively by itself. GSP could have taken a 4 gallon bucket of Crisco and poured it over himself before he stepped in the ring, and no one could say it was excessive, because they hadn't defined the term.

You still can't see the forest for the trees. Stop focusing on this incident, and focus on the larger, much more relevant issue. The rules of the UFC, and the governing of the sport of MMA must be clear and concise. It isn't, that needs to be changed. That is the problem, not GSP, not Kevin Burns, not Sonnen.


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

everyone here realizes there are also videos of rich franklin, sean sherk, and anderson silva all getting vasline on themselves right?

you also realize that vaseline get EVERYWHERE during a fight right? fighter A takes fighter B's back early in a fight and that vasline is then transferred from the face to the back. anytime time your in a clinch...vaseline is tranferred. in someones gaurd...vaseline from the face to the chest. 

fact of the matter is everyone is greased in a fight in some way. the only way to prevent it to take the vasline away. but all that means is more fights stopped by cut and more senseless needless complaining.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

spaulding91 said:


> everyone here realizes there are also videos of rich franklin, sean sherk, and anderson silva all getting vasline on themselves right?


I havent seen any of this, but i'll take your word for it. But its a moot point. Because these fighters have done it, it means people cant lose respect for GSP and criticize him for it?

Anyone with any MMA sense knows exactly why GSP's corner was greasing him. His cornermen knew, and GSP knew. And they knew it would give him an advantage. Thats where the loss of respect comes from. For having no respect for your opponent and fighting them on an even keel. Bare in mind BJ was already at a slight disadvantage of fighting above his natural weight class. GSP and his team would have spoken about the dangers of BJ's guard, especially now GSP has relied so heavily on his wrestling. The best solution? Exploit one of the rules on a lexical technicality. Shameful.


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

The Lone Wolf said:


> I havent seen any of this, but i'll take your word for it. But its a moot point. Because these fighters have done it, it means people cant lose respect for GSP and criticize him for it?
> 
> Anyone with any MMA sense knows exactly why GSP's corner was greasing him. His cornermen knew, and GSP knew. And they knew it would give him an advantage. Thats where the loss of respect comes from. For having no respect for your opponent and fighting them on an even keel. Bare in mind BJ was already at a slight disadvantage of fighting above his natural weight class. GSP and his team would have spoken about the dangers of BJ's guard, especially now GSP has relied so heavily on his wrestling. The best solution? Exploit one of the rules on a lexical technicality. Shameful.


you have absolutely no facts to back up that whole 2nd paragraph. i could say the opposite of every one of your points and it would mean the same thing....nothing. 

also bear in mind he sat in bj's gaurd for 2 rounds the first time they fought and was never in any real danger. so why would he be so terrified of his gaurd several years later? doesnt really add up. 

what does add up is the fact that they were clinched the whole first round of the 2nd fight. both of them had vasline all over then before anything "extra" was even applied.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

The video is horrible and the editing makes clear the person that made it just hates GSP. 

I'm not a GSP fan but I watched this fight in HD and the Vaseline was wiped off very well by the official and in my mind was a non factor to the fight.

I dont think GSP had a plan to cheat or even knew the corner man put it on him so the conspiracy's are a bit far fetched for me.The corner man should be bounced.

Other than that its just people blowing excuses up our ass as to why they got beat.

As far as juicing goes, you have to be real ignorant to think that it's rare but until a fighter is caught red handed its all speculation.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Hahaha...spoken like a true blind fanboy. "He might not have known about it...so he can't be called a cheat." Cause you know, GSP wasn't there at the time Phil Nurse was rubbing vasoline on...GSP's body.
> 
> I also like the logic of "okay, the grease was wiped off..how can be become a cheat?"
> 
> ...





Finnsidious said:


> "The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance"
> 
> See the problem here? What's excessive? 1 ounce? 2 ounces? How about 3? It doesn't say and thats the issue, clarity.
> 
> ...


Read the above quote. Sums it up pretty well. If you cant accept that what gsp did was cheap, disrespectful and sly then i dont know what else to say to you...



spaulding91 said:


> you have absolutely no facts to back up that whole 2nd paragraph. i could say the opposite of every one of your points and it would mean the same thing....nothing.
> 
> also bear in mind he sat in bj's gaurd for 2 rounds the first time they fought and was never in any real danger. so why would he be so terrified of his gaurd several years later? doesnt really add up.
> 
> what does add up is the fact that they were clinched the whole first round of the 2nd fight. both of them had vasline all over then before anything "extra" was even applied.


No facts? Oh, gsp just wipes vaseline all over his body because he likes the way it feels on his skin. I guess thats why he does it. Its obvious he uses it to give him an edge and advantage in the fight.

"He sat in BJ's guard for 2 rounds" - Exactly!. He sat there, unable to mount any offence, unable to even come close to escaping BJ's guard, whilst BJ was active from his back. Big difference between what happened in the second fight where BJ's legs are literally doing a slip and slide all the way down GSP's back and he transitions with ease....



slapshot said:


> The video is horrible and the editing makes clear the person that made it just hates GSP.
> 
> *I'm not a GSP fan but I watched this fight in HD and the Vaseline was wiped off very well by the official and in my mind was a non factor to the fight.*
> 
> ...


LOL.


----------



## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

ohhh im sorry! and at what point exactly did gsp wipe vasline all over his body. i mean we all know the fighter applies his own vasline between rounds. 

my overall point is that at the end of the day whether accidental or not it had no impact on the fight. vasline gets everywhere as soon as contact is made. if i take you down early and put my face in your chest you now have grease all over your chest. reverse my position and now the vasline goes from your chest to my back. you get where im going with this? 

and if your gonna thrash on gsp thrash on anderson too. go watch the thales fight. anderson wipes his vasline covered face with his hands and wipes it on his arms. but at the end of the day it doesnt even really matter.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

The Lone Wolf said:


> *I havent based my view on this little clip*, i suspected he was greasing when i was watching the event live and since then its been proven, and thats enough for me to form an opinion. A biased video clip like this makes no difference to the truth of the matter - GSP greased, and it gave him an unfair advantage.
> 
> Regardless of whether its happened before, it doesnt mean this incident should be overlooked. It just so happens that GSP is one of the most popular UFC fighters out there, and when youre in the spotlight, shit like this doesnt go unnoticed.
> 
> And those who's lips have formed a vacuum around GSP's nuts, quit neg repping people for their opinion on a controversial subject. You kids are acting like i just walked into Christmas Day Mass and took a shit in the manger. :sarcastic12:


Ya I know you didn't bro, was just using yer post as a jumping point for my rant. That's why I sent the PM .

Hope that last part isn't directed at me. I tried to give pos rep lol.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

spaulding91 said:


> *you have absolutely no facts to back up that whole 2nd paragraph. *i could say the opposite of every one of your points and it would mean the same thing....nothing.
> 
> also bear in mind he sat in bj's gaurd for 2 rounds the first time they fought and was never in any real danger. so why would he be so terrified of his gaurd several years later? doesnt really add up.
> 
> what does add up is the fact that they were clinched the whole first round of the 2nd fight. both of them had vasline all over then before anything "extra" was even applied.


Are you kidding me? Youre pulling me up on a lack of facts? :confused02: Theres only one fact distinguishable here and that is GSP's corner applied vaseline which the comission deemed excessive. If you want to play the facts game, thats the only fact available. So in your blinkered opinion, everyone should shut the hell up because they have no facts available to base their opinion on. . . Well opinions are formed when something isnt factual, Einstein :sarcastic12:



slapshot said:


> The video is horrible and the editing makes clear the person that made it just hates GSP.
> 
> I'm not a GSP fan but I watched this fight in HD and the Vaseline was wiped off very well by the official and in my mind was a non factor to the fight.
> 
> ...


Go to your local gym with a friend, and some vaseline (sounds raunchy) and "re-enact" Penn attempting rubber guard on GSP, without vaseline, and then with vaseline. Then tell me its a non-factor. You'll find yourself easily able to slide up and through the guard by posturing, just like in the fight. Without the vaseline, you'll be left relying mainly on strength to power out of it.

I completely agree that the video is made by someone who seriously cried hard over this - but that doesnt mean GSP is innocent in all of this. A fighter knows exactly what his corner men are doing, you can feel when vaseline is being rubbed on your body. The techinque he uses to break through BJ's rubber guard is based soley around sliding through! - theres no way GSP was unaware of what was going on. Not a chance!

Anyway, i give up arguing about this. People will believe what they want to believe, regardless of whats put infront of them.

Edit: No ape, its not directed at you  I fully expect people to have differing opinions to me and its all cool, but some kids think that laying blame at GSP's door is worse than robbing someone gran.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

fullcontact said:


> So you are assuming it is legal? Or he is doing in in a tolerable amount?
> If that was so, why doesn't GSP just come clean and admit he applies grease or oil on his body, but only within "the tolerated" amount.
> 
> The question is not whether other people have done it, the question is whether HE, GSP, has done it.
> ...


I was just stating the facts. If you want my personal opinion I think GSP and his trainers knew they were applying oils to the body. I think they also knew this would be heavily scrutinized if it were announced, and would not be accepted by the mma community as legit. I also believe they knew the rules were extremely vague on the subject, otherwise they wouldn't have risked it.

Personally I think it is obvious he did it. The only reason I mention that many other fighters have done it is because it highlights the vague nature of the rule.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Read the above quote. Sums it up pretty well. If you cant accept that what gsp did was cheap, disrespectful and sly then i dont know what else to say to you...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dont be a passive ass, if you want to be a dick do it proudly.

haters and hugger's, one's just as weak as the other. You exaggerate your points until they are more bullshit then anything.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Please keep the discussion civil. This subject is like religion on this forum; the discussion tends to degenerate very quickly.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

wouldn't you need to grease your sides, not your back, for it to do anything?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Dont be a passive ass, if you want to be a dick do it proudly.
> 
> haters and hugger's, one's just as weak as the other. You exaggerate your points until they are more bullshit then anything.


I wasnt trying to be an ass, you're comment actually made me laugh out loud.

"I watched the video in HD and they definitely wiped GSP clean of vaseline".

Nothing more needs to be said, other than lol.


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## 70seven (Mar 5, 2007)

Febuary 1st 2009 called, they want their thread back.


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

The Lone Wolf said:


> Are you kidding me? Youre pulling me up on a lack of facts? :confused02: Theres only one fact distinguishable here and that is GSP's corner applied vaseline which the comission deemed excessive. If you want to play the facts game, thats the only fact available. So in your blinkered opinion, everyone should shut the hell up because they have no facts available to base their opinion on. . . Well opinions are formed when something isnt factual, Einstein :sarcastic12:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


if the commision actually deemed it excessive they would have reversed the ruling. they didn't...so what does that tell you.


----------



## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

spaulding91 said:


> if the commision actually deemed it excessive they would have reversed the ruling. they didn't...so what does that tell you.


So they stepped into the cage to wipe off the vaseline why? To get on tv and give their moms a cheeky wave? :confused03:

That head of yours needs to pop right out of GSP's poopershooter and take a look at what youre missing


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

The Lone Wolf said:


> Are you kidding me? Youre pulling me up on a lack of facts? :confused02: Theres only one fact distinguishable here and that is GSP's corner applied vaseline which the comission deemed excessive. If you want to play the facts game, thats the only fact available. So in your blinkered opinion, everyone should shut the hell up because they have no facts available to base their opinion on. . . Well opinions are formed when something isnt factual, Einstein :sarcastic12:





The Lone Wolf said:


> Go to your local gym with a friend, and some vaseline (sounds raunchy) and "re-enact" Penn attempting rubber guard on GSP, without vaseline, and then with vaseline. Then tell me its a non-factor. You'll find yourself easily able to slide up and through the guard by posturing, just like in the fight. Without the vaseline, you'll be left relying mainly on strength to power out of it.


The stuff got wiped off and I have practiced submissions in a gym, I can tell you sweat dose the job as well so we dont know it gave him a advantage. If you want to talk greasing there are other agents you can use to grease without even putting it on the day of the fight. I just dont see the amount put on in the fight as enough to make a submission more difficult than sweat dose and I think stating GSP's back was a slip and slide is a exaggeration. 




The Lone Wolf said:


> I completely agree that the video is made by someone who seriously cried hard over this - but that doesnt mean GSP is innocent in all of this. A fighter knows exactly what his corner men are doing, you can feel when vaseline is being rubbed on your body. The techinque he uses to break through BJ's rubber guard is based soley around sliding through! - theres no way GSP was unaware of what was going on. Not a chance!


Again I dont agree, Ive never competed professionally but I get tunnel vision in a ring just sparring and between rounds I hear what people are telling me but Im focused on what I need to do in the upcoming round. You cant speak for everyone and I dont think he was paying attention to what they were doing. 

Im not saying it should have been done but if the rules are to vague fix them and move on.



The Lone Wolf said:


> Anyway, i give up arguing about this. People will believe what they want to believe, regardless of whats put infront of them.
> 
> Edit: No ape, its not directed at you  I fully expect people to have differing opinions to me and its all cool, but some kids think that laying blame at GSP's door is worse than robbing someone gran.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

I officially resign from this thread. Some people you just cant reach. I'm wondering how long its going to be before the whole WWJD (What Would Jesus Do) brand gets taken over by WWGSPD.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> I wasnt trying to be an ass, you're comment actually made me laugh out loud.
> 
> "I watched the video in HD and they definitely wiped GSP clean of vaseline".
> 
> Nothing more needs to be said, other than lol.


I thought it was fairly easy to tell it had been removed and lets be honest its not like he was dipped in motor oil, it was a small area and it got wiped off right away, its no more laughable then someone assuming some was left on his back.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

slapshot said:


> I thought it was fairly easy to tell it had been removed and lets be honest its not like he was dipped in motor oil, it was a small area and it got wiped off right away, its no more laughable then someone assuming some was left on his back.


You have obviously never come into contact with Vaseline have you....A quick towel rub isnt going to remove even the smallest blob of vaseline. Test it out on yourself. You'll need a thorough shower and scrub down to remove it.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

Does anyone else find it ironic that BJ Penn's fanboys never throw in the towel???


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> You have obviously never come into contact with Vaseline have you....A quick towel rub isnt going to remove even the smallest blob of vaseline. Test it out on yourself. You'll need a thorough shower and scrub down to remove it.



doesnt matter. they both had vasline all over them from clinching in the first round. they rubbed their vasline covered face all over each others chest, shoulders, and arms. from there it gets everywhere. you should test that out yourself cuz i gaurentee you its true. 

should nurse have rubbed his back with vasline on his fingers? NO! and he souldn't be allowed to corner anymore. did it impact the fight? NO! read the above paragraph


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

spaulding91 said:


> doesnt matter. they both had vasline all over them from clinching in the first round. they rubbed their vasline covered face all over each others chest, shoulders, and arms. from there it gets everywhere. you should test that out yourself cuz i gaurentee you its true.
> 
> should nurse have rubbed his back with vasline on his fingers? NO! and he souldn't be allowed to corner anymore. did it impact the fight? NO! read the above paragraph


Huh? Did you watch the video? GSP began greasing in round 2...Just thinking about that, isnt it ironic that round 1 was a round that was pretty much even when gsp wasnt greased up.


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Huh? Did you watch the video? GSP began greasing in round 2...Just thinking about that, isnt it ironic that round 1 was a round that was pretty much even when gsp wasnt greased up.


actually read what i wrote. im saying even if the grease wasnt applied gsp and penn still would have been slippery from the vasline applied to the face pre fight and clinching in the 1st round.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Good lord....again? Really.....


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

spaulding91 said:


> actually read what i wrote. im saying even if the grease wasnt applied gsp and penn still would have been slippery from the vasline applied to the face pre fight and clinching in the 1st round.


lol ooohhhh i see. So because of the necessary vaseline applied to both the fighters faces before the fight, gsp having vaseline rubbed all over his back and chest makes him innocent and means it didnt have an effect on the fight.

This is the best one ive heard yet lol. Brilliant.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> lol ooohhhh i see. So because of the necessary vaseline applied to both the fighters faces before the fight, gsp having vaseline rubbed all over his back and chest makes him innocent and means it didnt have an effect on the fight.
> 
> This is the best one ive heard yet lol. Brilliant.


It's not like BJ would have won the fight anyway. He just wouldn't have gotten pounded the way he did. The grease just prevented BJ from breaking GSP's posture down and stopping GnP. So it would have been a five round decision instead of a corner stoppage.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> It's not like BJ would have won the fight anyway. He just wouldn't have gotten pounded the way he did. The grease just prevented BJ from breaking GSP's posture down and stopping GnP. So it would have been a five round decision instead of a corner stoppage.


So you're contradicting yourself here. First you say GSP would of pounded BJ the same any ways, then you're saying if GSP didnt grease he wouldn't of been able to ground and pound BJ? Okaaaay....

This isnt debating who would of won the fight any ways. It's a discussion of how such a popular MMA idol is actually a cheater and will go to extraordinary measures to give himself an advantage in a fight. Its pathetic really.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> So you're contradicting yourself here. First you say GSP would of pounded BJ the same any ways, then you're saying if GSP didnt grease he wouldn't of been able to ground and pound BJ? Okaaaay....
> 
> This isnt debating who would of won the fight any ways. It's a discussion of how such a popular MMA idol is actually a cheater and will go to extraordinary measures to give himself an advantage in a fight. Its pathetic really.


Cheater? The rules say no excessive grease. He used nothing in excess IMO.

By the way, it's hilarious if you think GSP is the only person who's had grease rubbed on their back a couple of times. The only reason this was ever brought up was because BJ cried and cried about it for months.


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> lol ooohhhh i see. So because of the necessary vaseline applied to both the fighters faces before the fight, gsp having vaseline rubbed all over his back and chest makes him innocent and means it didnt have an effect on the fight.
> 
> This is the best one ive heard yet lol. Brilliant.


I didn't say it made him innocent. again, read my post. phil nurse should have been fined and suspended from cornering. what im saying is it had zero imact on the fight cuz the grease would have been there anyway like it is in every fight in mma. vasline tranfers easy i thought this was common knowledge:confused02:


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

MikeHawk said:


> Cheater? The rules say no excessive grease. He used nothing in excess IMO.
> 
> By the way, it's hilarious if you think GSP is the only person who's had grease rubbed on their back a couple of times. The only reason this was ever brought up was because BJ cried and cried about it for months.


Has anyone claimed that GSP is the only fighter that has done this? :confused02:

And i'm pretty sure this issue got raised almost immediately after the fight, not months after as you imply. And what is BJ supposed to do about it other than complain? When someone does something to bend/break the rules its kinda read that youre gonna complain about it. . .

I give it 2 days max before you neg rep me *again* for criticising GSP :sarcastic12:


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Fact is "greasing" wasn't against the rules when they fought. Its actually a brand new rule, and its not like GSP applied to it himself, his corner did when he pressed his oand on his back. Anyone can make that mistake


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Sousa said:


> Fact is "greasing" wasn't against the rules when they fought. Its actually a brand new rule, and its not like GSP applied to it himself, his corner did when he pressed his oand on his back. Anyone can make that mistake


Gold, absolute gold. Any one can make that mistake.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Where is the bias that everyone is referring to? Do you mean them being biased by actually putting video footage of GSP greasing? Is that _really_ biased? IMO, they could've left out the commission whiping it off of him, and it would've been biased, but they left that part in there.



Sousa said:


> Fact is "greasing" wasn't against the rules when they fought. Its actually a brand new rule, and its not like GSP applied to it himself, his corner did when he pressed his oand on his back. Anyone can make that mistake


When was that rule introduced? I want documentation showing it, not just your opinion. If I'm with someone that is caught stealing, I'm charged as an accessory, which is practically the same situation as GSP and his team.


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## sprawlbrawl (Apr 28, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSvVT0ZJvfE here is rich doing the same thing colb of vasaline on his shoulder


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

sprawlbrawl said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSvVT0ZJvfE here is rich doing the same thing colb of vasaline on his shoulder


I dont understand what point youre attempting to make? :confused02: Because GSP isnt the first fighter to do it its ok?

Without checking through all the posts that have been made in this thread, i'll go out on a limb and say that noone is saying GSP is the only fighter to do it. What we're saying is that he was in the wrong to do it, and it had an effect on the fight. Is it really so hard to comprehend? Oh wait, youre a Canuck, see i can play that game too. . . . I'm from th UK, and therefore Hendo never knocked Bisping out. Bisping just decided to take a nap. I dont even think he was aware he was in a fight. Besides, he's not the first person to have gone to sleep in the octagon, so the KO doesnt count. . . . :confused03:

You see how stupid that sounds? Theres a video clip showing GSP being rubbed down with vaseline. *guilty*. Theres a video clip of GSP sliding through BJ's attempts at rubber guard. Yes, sliding. *guilty*. Its right there infront of your eyes and people still dont accept it!


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## Rockstar189 (Dec 14, 2006)

I remember watching that video when it first came out..

Bj Penn got a raw deal. He was pretty much fighting a Middleweight; I'm not sure what their weights were when they stepped into the octagon, but I'd say that BJ was about 172 and GSP was close to 190. And when your fighting a man with the best Takedown in mixed martial arts, you need an amazing guard. The vaseline didn't help that much. 

Too many things were stacked against him... As a fan I felt hollow after the fight, in those superfights it sucks to see a one sided HOSING and especially under the suspicious circumstances.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> So you're contradicting yourself here. First you say GSP would of pounded BJ the same any ways, then you're saying if GSP didnt grease he wouldn't of been able to ground and pound BJ? Okaaaay.....


Except I didn't, I said he wouldn't have been able to pound him the same way but would have gone to a five round decision. If GSP greased it wouldn't have helped him take BJ down it just helped him posture out of BJ's guard and really GnP. Which lead to the stoppage, BJ wouldn't have taken the same damage but he wasn't going to sub GSP.

I'm so sick of this greasing discussion though....it was soo long ago.


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## kiLzeD (Aug 9, 2010)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Fighting_Championship#Rules

Anyone see the rule that says no using grease? I can't find any, even using CNTL-F and typing in "Grease" "vaseline" or "Oil"


EDIT: Here is a list of the same rules just organized different
http://www.completemartialarts.com/whoswho/ufc/ufcrules.htm


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## sprawlbrawl (Apr 28, 2008)

The Lone Wolf said:


> I dont understand what point youre attempting to make? :confused02: Because GSP isnt the first fighter to do it its ok?
> 
> Without checking through all the posts that have been made in this thread, i'll go out on a limb and say that noone is saying GSP is the only fighter to do it. What we're saying is that he was in the wrong to do it, and it had an effect on the fight. Is it really so hard to comprehend? Oh wait, youre a Canuck, see i can play that game too. . . . I'm from th UK, and therefore Hendo never knocked Bisping out. Bisping just decided to take a nap. I dont even think he was aware he was in a fight. Besides, he's not the first person to have gone to sleep in the octagon, so the KO doesnt count. . . . :confused03:
> 
> You see how stupid that sounds? Theres a video clip showing GSP being rubbed down with vaseline. *guilty*. Theres a video clip of GSP sliding through BJ's attempts at rubber guard. Yes, sliding. *guilty*. Its right there infront of your eyes and people still dont accept it!


the point im trying to make is that every greasing thread is titled gsp is a greaser or what ever but know ones says anything about anyone else and im not a canuck canada is bigger than vancover


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> Except I didn't, I said he wouldn't have been able to pound him the same way but would have gone to a five round decision. If GSP greased it wouldn't have helped him take BJ down it just helped him posture out of BJ's guard and really GnP. Which lead to the stoppage, BJ wouldn't have taken the same damage but he wasn't going to sub GSP.
> 
> I'm so sick of this greasing discussion though....it was soo long ago.


My bad i mis read. I thought you said he would of got pounded the same way. You actually said wouldnt, fair enough.

I dont think BJ would of won either, but i think it would of been a decision and not as one sided as you think.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> My bad i mis read. I thought you said he would of got pounded the same way. You actually said wouldnt, fair enough.
> 
> I dont think BJ would of won either, but i think it would of been a decision and not as one sided as you think.


I think GSP would have taken four rounds, BJ's cardio is always a joke at 170, don't see that he would have been able to do at George's pace for more than two. I just think it would have been more of GSP v Hardy, just takedowns and a few passes, maybe a couple more sub attempts from BJ.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

kiLzeD said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Fighting_Championship#Rules
> 
> Anyone see the rule that says no using grease? I can't find any, even using CNTL-F and typing in "Grease" "vaseline" or "Oil"
> 
> ...


It's in the NSAC rules. There is a link somewhere in this thread.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> *
> First things first, watch this entire video
> *
> 
> ...


Great post. I think GSP was greased up a little bit, but i don't think it affected the outcome of the fight. Couple comments:
-you don't need vaseline to grease up - take a bath
and put some massage oil in the fight. You can dry off and look normal, but when you start to sweat you'll be very slippery.
-greasing the upper body can actually hurt you - easier to sink in chokes;
- I think Lesnar gets 'slippery' before a fight, he gets shiny quick


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

70seven said:


> Febuary 1st 2009 called, they want their thread back.


lol winner.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Gold, absolute gold. Any one can make that mistake.


Why not? Do they not apply vasaline during rounds?He used the same hand to apply it to his face and rubbed his back shit happens he still beat BJ standing...does greasing have a part of that? Sure its"cheating" fine still doesn't mean anything.



UrbanBounca said:


> When was that rule introduced? I want documentation showing it, not just your opinion. If I'm with someone that is caught stealing, I'm charged as an accessory, which is practically the same situation as GSP and his team.


What are you the rules police or something? Calm down and no need to be giving people red rep because you don't agree with them. Look at the rules of MMA especially in teh UFC and the NSAC, there are no rules AGAINST greasing. I do however remember that they'd take more procausions when it comes to greasing now,maybe not exactly a new rule like I said but because of BJ crying about it every chance he got they changed up something from what I can remember. Here are a list of fouls

Fouls:
1. Butting with the head. 
2. Eye gouging of any kind. 
3. Biting. 
4. Hair pulling. 
5. Fish hooking. 
6. Groin attacks of any kind. 
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent. 
8. Small joint manipulation. 
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head. 
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow. 
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea. 
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh. 
13. Grabbing the clavicle. 
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent. 
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent. 
16. Stomping a grounded opponent. 
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel. 
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck. 
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area. 
20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent. 
21. Spitting at an opponent. 
22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent. 
23. Holding the ropes or the fence. 
24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area. 
25. Attacking an opponent on or during the break. 
26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee. 
27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat. 
28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee. 
29. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury. 
30. Interference by the corner. 
31. Throwing in the towel during competition.

None say anything about greasing exactly . though I found a new link about greasing that its illegal only if the ref says so

http://www.cagepotato.com/nsac-adds-instant-replay-clarifies-greasing-rule-asks-‘happy-now-bj’



> In the case of GSP the NSAC wiped him down with a towel when they became aware that there was Vaseline on his back. Typically these greasing accusations imply that the guilty party found a way to get slippery other than wantonly applying some greasing agent between rounds, so in order for the referee to do anything he’d have to be able to see that the fighter has grease coming out of his pores, which seems tough to do. Call me crazy, but I don’t think this minor concession is going to be enough to get B.J. Penn to call off his fatwa against the state of the Nevada.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Sousa said:


> Fact is "greasing" wasn't against the rules when they fought. Its actually a brand new rule, and its not like GSP applied to it himself, his corner did when he pressed his oand on his back. Anyone can make that mistake


It was a rule, after GSP BJ II they made it so only neutral corner men could tend to cuts and swelling.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Sousa said:


> What are you the rules police or something? Calm down and no need to be giving people red rep because you don't agree with them. Look at the rules of MMA especially in teh UFC and the NSAC, there are no rules AGAINST greasing. I do however remember that they'd take more procausions when it comes to greasing now,maybe not exactly a new rule like I said but because of BJ crying about it every chance he got they changed up something from what I can remember. Here are a list of fouls
> 
> Fouls:
> 1. Butting with the head.
> ...


If you would read the entire thread, you would see where I already posted it was against NSAC's rules.



> *NAC 467.598 Physical appearance of unarmed combatants. (NRS 467.030)*
> 
> 2. The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant. The referees or the Commission’s representative in charge shall cause any excessive grease or foreign substance to be removed.


Source


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