# Gsp being accused of greasing?



## H-Deep (Feb 3, 2009)

"Jake had a leg a couple of times, GSP got out very well, it looked like a couple of times his leg just kind of slipped right out of there, you know, so it must have been really slippery or something, I don’t know." - Cesar Gracie on the Brian Hemminger Radio Show 

source : http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/5/2...of-times-gsp-got-out-very-well-it-looked-like


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Wonder if he has ever heard of sweat.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Shields would never accuse GSP of greasing and I'm sure he wasn't. Shields has an epic single leg dragdown and GSP expertly got out of it with balance and experience. I'm sure GSP worked up a good sweat to get out of submission attempts and take-down attempts. 


Let's not beat this dead horse again.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Great, we get to hear of a coaches opinion, in a matter of fact, wasn't even in Canada when this fight was taking place. If anyone would say something, it would be Shields himself or one of his cornermen. GSP did some crazy stuff when he had his leg trapped, its like he jumped up and let Shields hold his full weight for a second...wonder if we could get a picture of that, probably looks awesome.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

He didn't say he was greasing, he just said he got out of it pretty easily.

Let's wait for the anti-GSP'ers to come to this thread now.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

No, GSP is not being accused of greasing. His statement was probably taken out of context.


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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

One thing that I did wonder about was that gsp kept putting water in his mouth then spraying it above his head yet never dried it off.. I'm a big GSP fan but probably due to all the fuss about him greasing I just thought maybe this was trying to make it that little bit harder to hold him.


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## unclehulka13 (Nov 17, 2008)

anderton46 said:


> One thing that I didn't wonder about was that gsp kept putting water in his mouth then spraying it above his head yet never dried it off.. I'm a big GSP fan but probably due to all the fuss about him greasing I just thought maybe this was trying to make it that little bit harder to hold him.



I kept noticing the same thing. He has never done that before as far as i can remember. I was thinking hey who let Triple H in the octagon. Kind of odd.....


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## H-Deep (Feb 3, 2009)

I posted this up here with the question mark on the title to get your opinions, I'm not accusing him of anything. My opinion on him won't change anyway, I saw what I needed to see a few years back.

Edit : IMO Gracie is definitely trying to say something tho, you wouldn't make these types of comments otherwise.


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

Ugh.

Nothing like taking a guys comment out of context and beating a dead horse that has been decaying for a very long time.​


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

anderton46 said:


> One thing that I did wonder about was that gsp kept putting water in his mouth then spraying it above his head yet never dried it off.. I'm a big GSP fan but probably due to all the fuss about him greasing I just thought maybe this was trying to make it that little bit harder to hold him.



Water and sweat are legal ways of being slippery.


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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> Water and sweat are legal ways of being slippery.


Well i'm not too sure about water mate. I've seen some corners pour water over their fighters head to cool him or w/e and the ref has asked for them to dry them off with a towell.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Cesar Gracie Team at UFC 129: *3 fights, 3 losses*. :boo01:

My my...someone was very frustrated after the whole event :sarcastic12:


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## Hail the Potato (Jul 29, 2010)

Spec0688 said:


> Great, we get to hear of a coaches opinion, in a matter of fact, wasn't even in Canada when this fight was taking place. If anyone would say something, it would be Shields himself or one of his cornermen. GSP did some crazy stuff when he had his leg trapped, its like he jumped up and let Shields hold his full weight for a second...wonder if we could get a picture of that, probably looks awesome.






















had to share these too


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

limba said:


> Cesar Gracie Team at UFC 129: *3 fights, 3 losses*. :boo01:
> 
> My my...someone was very frustrated after the whole event :sarcastic12:


Nate, Shields and ???????, go on enlighten me =


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Nate, Shields and ???????, go on enlighten me =


Daniel 'Ninja' Roberts.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

GSP accused of Greasing, Shields is guilty of eye gouging. /thread


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Davisty69 said:


> GSP accused of Greasing, *Shields is guilty of eye gouging.* /thread


I didn't notice this while watching the fight the first time:


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Nate, Shields and ???????, go on enlighten me =





Indestructibl3 said:


> Daniel 'Ninja' Roberts.


^^ What he said, Killer. 



Indestructibl3 said:


> I didn't notice this while watching the fight the first time:


Thread here


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Im a wreslter and i cant take GSP down.

A. He must be greasing :sarcastic12:

Im a BJJ fighter who cant submit him or get back to my feet using sweeps.

A. He must be greasing :sarcastic12:

what next ?

I cant knock him out the punches slipped off his head :confused03:


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## evzbc (Oct 11, 2006)

Not saying it's true, but I've heard of methods where fighters put lube on their body, let it dry, then as they sweat (or like seeing GSP spray his body) they get slick again.

Just saying.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

H-Deep said:


> "Jake had a leg a couple of times, GSP got out very well, it looked like a couple of times his leg just kind of slipped right out of there, you know, so it must have been really slippery or something, I don’t know." - Cesar Gracie on the Brian Hemminger Radio Show
> 
> source : http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/5/2...of-times-gsp-got-out-very-well-it-looked-like


How do they test for greasing? It's pretty easy to grease up on the down low if you sweat alot. All you have to do is to take a bath in oil, let it dry out and your skin will look normal, but when you start to sweat you will get as slipppery as an eel. Very easily done.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

evzbc said:


> Not saying it's true, but I've heard of methods where fighters put lube on their body, let it dry, then as they sweat (or like seeing GSP spray his body) they get slick again.
> 
> Just saying.


You know what...i've hear of fighters drinking gallons of olive oil and eating buckets of grease (animal/vegetable fat) before the fight.

Then as they sweat - their sweat it's not water - it's actually the oil and grease they had consumed.

They sweat GREASE! Perfectly brilliant! :sarcastic12:

Just saying.


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## evzbc (Oct 11, 2006)

limba said:


> You know what...i've hear of fighters drinking gallons of olive oil and eating buckets of grease (animal/vegetable fat) before the fight.
> 
> Then as they sweat - their sweat it's not water - it's actually the oil and grease they had consumed.
> 
> ...


You actually took time to write this, really?

Sometimes you make decent posts, then this....

Given GSP's cheating history against grapplers, and his unusual behavior spitting water on himself, I find this very suspicious and think that others will too.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

evzbc said:


> You actually took time to write this, really?


Yes.



evzbc said:


> Sometimes you make decent posts,


Thank you.



evzbc said:


> then this....


I think my feelings should be hurt.



evzbc said:


> Given GSP's cheating history against grapplers...


"Given GSP's cheating history" and the fact that he would have risked a SERIOUS ban if caught cheating - it's hard for me to imagine why he would do such a thing.

Why would GSP try to cheat against a grappler, if his whole gameplan for this fight was to keep the fight standing?! ALmost zero grappling involved?!



evzbc said:


> *and his unusual behavior spitting water on himself, I find this very suspicious and think that others will too.*


To quote another member on MMAF:



> You actually took time to write this, really?



PS: have you watched Machida vs Couture?!

After the 1st rd, randy tells his corner: "he's slippery..."

Fight here - at 5:33 

Greasing?!
Or maybe it's that damn piss Machida is drinking...


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## monkey024 (Apr 6, 2010)

I do have to admit I'm a huge Shields fan but will give the fight to the winner.

You have to scratch your head when Shields was all over GSP's leg and it was in between Shields feet at one point and it just slips out. 

Sorry but when you have your hands above your oponnets knee you should be able to hold onto him with that little part behind the knee that bends....GSP just slides it out like nothing. 

Some parts when GSP was on Shields also looked like Shields legs were slidding underneath him...although it wont matter anymore.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Rutten said you can take a bath with oil the night before and your body will absorb it and you sweat it later, don't even have to eat it.


But yeah this is being blown way out of proportion.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Not this sh!t again.


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## METALLICA_RULES (Feb 12, 2011)

GSP's has excellent takedown defense and very good balance. he's just that damn good at not being taken down.


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## Hail the Potato (Jul 29, 2010)

Why not just towel the fighters off before each round?


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

monkey024 said:


> I do have to admit I'm a huge Shields fan but will give the fight to the winner.
> 
> You have to scratch your head when Shields was all over GSP's leg and it was in between Shields feet at one point and it just slips out.
> 
> ...


Denis Siver was getting his leg out of George Soto every time during their fight when George had a hold of his leg. Does he grease too? Some people just know when to pull their leg out at a good time. As an amateur MMA fighter myself, my single leg defense is alot better than my double leg defense. I have a good knack for hopping around and getting my leg out at the right time. I was once accused of greasing after a fight but their was no proof, my trainer just says that im very good at doing that, one of the best he has seen. Its at least one thing im good at lol before I get KO'd. Its all about timing with your hopping, and when he is about to push you down, the grip and arms open up a bit at a specific point.


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## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

***** de Amigo said:


> Im a wreslter and i cant take GSP down.
> 
> A. He must be greasing :sarcastic12:
> 
> ...


Try changeing your first name to matt


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

GSP was clearly greased (even video of it) when he popped out of one of the best guards in BJJ period and defied hundreds of years of rubber guard defence against BJ Penn.

But he simply man-handled Shields. He basically pushed Shields over in one of those take-downs. He is as powerful as he has ever been when it comes to the wrestling.

But as everyone else said, flogging a dead horse here!


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> Shields would never accuse GSP of greasing and I'm sure he wasn't. Shields has an epic single leg dragdown and GSP expertly got out of it with balance and experience. I'm sure GSP worked up a good sweat to get out of submission attempts and take-down attempts.
> 
> 
> Let's not beat this dead horse again.


Not going to lie, my first thought when he just slipped out of the single Jake got in the first without trying, the first thought I had was "he's greased." 

This is from someone who didn't support BJ in greasegate. But it was just so early on and he didn't pull out or anything he just puts his hands on Jake and slipped his leg out, not to mention that Shields couldn't hold onto GSP AT ALL when they got into the clinch. 

Now I'm not saying he's greased, and even if he was, he would not be the first or the last man to do it. I laughed though when they showed GSP getting a massage during Primetime and said he gets one once a day leading up to the fight while the guy is rubbing lotion all over him. 

I doubt GSP was greased as in, I don't think Jackson was rubbing hum down in the locker room. And it's possible GSP doesn't do it intentionally, but if you are putting lotion on your entire body every day for a week, it gets into your skin and as soon as you start to sweat you're basically greased. It's popular with wrestlers.

But like I said, no clue if he really was and Shields didn't really try for many take downs, so there wasn't a lot of evidence, I thought it was odd Jake kept pinning GSP's leg with his knees, using his shorts to hold him. Jake will never say he was greased, but seemed like an odd tactic. 

Sorry to beat a dead horse, like I said I didn't think he greased against Penn, it was just my first thought when I seen him slip out so easily in the first.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

GSP is using oil to cheat, we never went to the moon, Osama and 9/11 were fake blah blah blah


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## sillywillybubba (Oct 15, 2006)

Ape City said:


> GSP is using oil to cheat, we never went to the moon, Osama and 9/11 were fake blah blah blah


hrm..i think that may have been sarcasm.



swpthleg said:


> Not this sh!t again.


of course...anytime GSP fights, it will be followed by grease talk. especially if he gets out of someones grip. its not about strength and technique, its about grease.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

sillywillybubba said:


> hrm..i think that may have been sarcasm.
> 
> 
> of course...anytime GSP fights, it will be followed by grease talk. especially if he gets out of someones grip. its not about strength and technique, its about grease.


Oh, right. Silly me.

GSP's sweat smells like pine trees and red wine..........ahhhhhh.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> Not going to lie, my first thought when he just slipped out of the single Jake got in the first without trying, the first thought I had was "he's greased."
> 
> This is from someone who didn't support BJ in greasegate. But it was just so early on and he didn't pull out or anything he just puts his hands on Jake and slipped his leg out, not to mention that Shields couldn't hold onto GSP AT ALL when they got into the clinch.
> 
> ...


How can you not have supported BJ over the greasegate fiasco when it was 100 percent proved via video evidence that he was greased up?




























They're just gifs, there are countless videos out there showing the greasing footage.

I don't believe he did it against Shields, but it baffles me when people try arguing against the BJ Penn fight when it was proved on video.

If you're a GSP fan and you love the guy, that's fine, but don't try and sit there and tell me that he didn't cheat against BJ Penn in the second fight when it was caught on camera, with the UFC president admitting it himself. You can't argue against facts.

It would be like me, a Penn fan, trying to deny that Penn poked GSP in the eye in the first fight when it was caught on camera.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Buut....that's a different thread in which we've discussed that issue, and all the man drama squabbles therein, exhaustively.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

swpthleg said:


> Buut....that's a different thread in which we've discussed that issue, and all the man drama squabbles therein, exhaustively.


I know, I shouldn't have mentioned it, but I couldn't resist when Life Be Ez says he doesn't believe the BJ greasegate fiasco.

It's impossible to argue against some thing that was caught as evidence on camera. Like Penn poking Georges in the eye in the first fight, how can I have the audacity to say there was no eye poke, when it's right there, captured on video.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

GSP isn't being accused of greasing. Caesar Gracie is simply blaming Shields' bad performance on sweat, rather than GSP being a superior fighter.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Squirrelfighter said:


> GSP isn't being accused of greasing. Caesar Gracie is simply blaming Shields' bad performance on sweat, rather than GSP being a superior fighter.



Its a known fact that GSP takes a long bath in baby oil before the fight, he probably sprays water on himself the get the oils flowing lol


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> I know, I shouldn't have mentioned it, but I couldn't resist when Life Be Ez says he doesn't believe the BJ greasegate fiasco.
> 
> It's impossible to argue against some thing that was caught as evidence on camera. Like Penn poking Georges in the eye in the first fight, how can I have the audacity to say there was no eye poke, when it's right there, captured on video.


Well it is slightly different. Some people don't believe the grease made a difference. You could argue GSP would have slipped out regardless. Some people also debated whether the rules were up for interpretation (ie what dictates excessive, whos responsibility is it to ensure it isn't excessive).

I mean I wouldn't personally argue that, because I think they purposefully worked a grey area rule with the vaseline, but i'm just saying the reason why greagate was so big is there was room for interpretation of rules and also whether or not the vaseline was the clear cut reason GSP escaped in those gifs.

In this case today we have someone accusing GSP of greasing without even using grease. Now grease = water. Besides I said it before and I will say it again; it is up to the commission and the ref to decide whether or not a fighter needs to be wiped down. Jake Shields trainer or whoever can insinuate whatever he wants but GSP is in front of millions of people, he isn't trying to be sneaky about anything!


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> How can you not have supported BJ over the greasegate fiasco when it was 100 percent proved via video evidence that he was greased up?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I never bought it that Phil Nurse(pretty sure that's who is was) applied grease to him in the cage, I believe plenty of guys bath in lotion and what not weeks before the fight, so when they start sweating thy are pretty much greased, but there isn't anything illegal about that. 

If that had happened in the first round, I would support Penn, it didn't so GSP had time to work a good sweat up and let the lotion I'm sure he'd been working in for weeks start to take affect. I've seen plenty of the videos, I personally don't think if anything was applied to GSP in the cage, it was done on purpose. I've tried to work a high guard on a guy that has been oil bathing, and it's damn near impossible and it looks just like that. If GSP was greased, Penn would never have been able to hold anything, it wouldn't have just slipped down his back. So I guess it's just more, I didn't think GSP was greased as excessively as you.

Just my stance and on a second watch of Shields GSP, he wasn't greased. Shields let his leg go in the first and the rounds following that, GSP was grease sweating.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> I never bought it that Phil Nurse(pretty sure that's who is was) applied grease to him in the cage, I believe plenty of guys bath in lotion and what not weeks before the fight, so when they start sweating thy are pretty much greased, but there isn't anything illegal about that.
> 
> If that had happened in the first round, I would support Penn, it didn't so GSP had time to work a good sweat up and let the lotion I'm sure he'd been working in for weeks start to take affect. I've seen plenty of the videos, I personally don't think if anything was applied to GSP in the cage, it was done on purpose. I've tried to work a high guard on a guy that has been oil bathing, and it's damn near impossible and it looks just like that. If GSP was greased, Penn would never have been able to hold anything, it wouldn't have just slipped down his back. So I guess it's just more, I didn't think GSP was greased as excessively as you.
> 
> Just my stance and on a second watch of Shields GSP, he wasn't greased. Shields let his leg go in the first and the rounds following that, GSP was grease sweating.


Well then you have watched the wrong videos, because it's on footage. Phil Nurse with a tub of vaseline in his hand, rubbing it all over Georges chest and back. Then that tub of vaseline dropping onto the octagon floor and a look of sheer panic on GSP's face. All caught on camera, all on youtube. Dunno what you were watching.


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## Ciaci (Feb 9, 2011)

I had the same HHH thought!


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## AdRath (Nov 16, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> Well then you have watched the wrong videos, because it's on footage. Phil Nurse with a tub of vaseline in his hand, rubbing it all over Georges chest and back. Then that tub of vaseline dropping onto the octagon floor and a look of sheer panic on GSP's face. All caught on camera, all on youtube. Dunno what you were watching.


Can you please post the video? 

I saw the footage of Phil rubbing his back and front like he usually does for breathing exercise. I saw that he didn't wipe his hands between applying vaseline to GSP's face hence getting some on when rubbed but I never saw a tub of vaseline or any look of panic other than GSP concentrating looking forward while Greg Jackson coached him. 

I'd like to see this 'tub of vaseline' or 'sheer panic'


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

AdRath said:


> Can you please post the video?
> 
> I saw the footage of Phil rubbing his back and front like he usually does for breathing exercise. I saw that he didn't wipe his hands between applying vaseline to GSP's face hence getting some on when rubbed but I never saw a tub of vaseline or any look of panic other than GSP concentrating looking forward while Greg Jackson coached him.
> 
> I'd like to see this 'tub of vaseline' or 'sheer panic'







1.22 mark of the video


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## AdRath (Nov 16, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> 1.22 mark of the video


Thanks for posting

Without the editing and zooming that doesn't look like a look of 'sheer terror' at all. He hardly does anything more than a glance. 

In previous videos I hadn't noticed the vaseline drop before. There is no doubt some vaseline got onto his skin but I am not as convinced by the sinister nature of it when watching unedited videos. You can edit anything to look sinister and intentional. You might be right though. 

It would be easy to edit a video showing Jake Shields purposefully stuck GSP in the eye with his fingers. Doesn't mean it was intentional but slow mo and editing can really influence how something looks.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

AdRath said:


> Thanks for posting
> 
> Without the editing and zooming that doesn't look like a look of 'sheer terror' at all. He hardly does anything more than a glance.
> 
> ...


Huh, there was no editing to change what actually happened there, just slow motion, so you can see clearly what was going on.

In slow mo you see GSP look down at the dropped tub of vaseline and then look up at phil nurse with IMO a look of panic in his eyes.

Then you piece all of the other things together such as five other fighters accusing GSP of greasing and then Dana White himself (also in that vid) directly stating GSP had been greased and was in "big trouble", it becomes obvious it was set up and quite a cunning plan.

Open handed strikes happen all the time in MMA, Shields' was no different. All I seen was a super slow mo version of his open handed strike, nothing made me think it looked intentional at all.

Here's the dana white bit if you missed:


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> 1.22 mark of the video


Wow nice video. I was a big GSP fan for a long time, never really got into the greasgate scandal, but if quite a few people say something about a fighter that they have fought then it just might be true. Sad really if it is true and evidence is pretty staggering. Still one of the nicest guys around, but if you are a cheater then you lose my respect.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Soakked said:


> Wow nice video. I was a big GSP fan for a long time, never really got into the greasgate scandal, but if quite a few people say something about a fighter that they have fought then it just might be true. Sad really if it is true and evidence is pretty staggering. Still one of the nicest guys around, but if you are a cheater then you lose my respect.


Yea, I was the same man. I was actually a GSP fan before this entire scandal came about and at first I thought BJ was just whining and crying over losing. But then you dig deeper, you look at the videos and all of the other allegations against him and it becomes crystal clear what he was doing. GSP seems like such a nice guy on camera, but like you, I can never ever respect a cheat, in any sport.

The fact that he did it in one of the biggest superfights in MMA history and robbed BJ of a fair fight makes me sick to my stomach still.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Well then you have watched the wrong videos, because it's on footage. Phil Nurse with a tub of vaseline in his hand, rubbing it all over Georges chest and back. Then that tub of vaseline dropping onto the octagon floor and a look of sheer panic on GSP's face. All caught on camera, all on youtube. Dunno what you were watching.


I've seen both of the videos you posted, as well as all the other parts of the second video. Still never bought that it was intentional, nor do I think it is the main reason BJ lost. He tried to work the same thing on Fitch and it didn't work, it slipped down the same way. Did Fitch grease?


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

People saying he didnt cover his entire body in Vaseline intentionally is hilarious! How much more obvious signs do you need.....

This thread should be called Ignorance 1o1


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Well here we are still talking about Greasegate.

Here's all that matters to me:

1) GSP and his cornermen did not hide the application of vaseline. It isn't like they had the vaseline secretly on their fingers, they brought an entire jar in the cage!

2) GSP was never charged with anything nor was he or any of his cornermen officially disciplined. This is important because calling him a cheater is inaccurate. If he cheated in front of millions he would have been disciplined.

3) after the fight the rule of allowing cornerman to apply anything between rounds was changed. this is also important because it demonstrates that the commission recognized there was an issue with interpreting the rules as opposed to someone blatantly breaking them.

I still find it amazing that people will stop being a fan of GSP for the silly ass greasegate thing but when a fighter gets caught doing something that is illegal and banned by the commission like roids it ain't a thing.




Machida Karate said:


> People saying he didnt cover his entire body in Vaseline intentionally is hilarious! How much more obvious signs do you need.....
> 
> This thread should be called Ignorance 1o1


The worse part is that it actually makes GSP look bad for no reason. They all admitted that vaseline was applied. No one denied it except retarded fans. Clearly it was in tentional and no one denied that. Phil Nurse was holding a jar of vaseline the size of GSPs head, he obviously didn't think he was doing anything blatantly wrong or he might, I dunno, make just the slightest effort to hide it?


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## Alex_DeLarge_V2 (Mar 10, 2011)

Actually, his corner was told to put away the grease. He brought it back out..and was told again to put it away. He cheated and greased, simple as that.


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

Worst part is, despite the obvious greasing in that fight, people still give GSP credit as being a master guard passer and smashing up Penn (when the first fight was down to the wire and the second an obvious joke. I mean how do you change a rule, but not alter the verdict of the bout for which the rule was changed a no contest?). I don't get it.

BJ really got ripped here whether GSP or his corner meant to cheat or not and that is the part that is always missed in these debates. Intentional cheating or not, BJ was ripped off that night.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Alex_DeLarge_V2 said:


> Actually, his corner was told to put away the grease. He brought it back out..and was told again to put it away. He cheated and greased, simple as that.


I've never heard that before. Any proof? Who warned whom?



Fine Wine said:


> Worst part is, despite the obvious greasing in that fight, people still give GSP credit as being a master guard passer and smashing up Penn (when the first fight was down to the wire and the second an obvious joke. *I mean how do you change a rule, but not alter the verdict of the bout for which the rule was changed a no contest?). I don't get it.*
> 
> BJ really got ripped here whether GSP or his corner meant to cheat or not and that is the part that is always missed in these debates. Intentional cheating or not, BJ was ripped off that night.


When a rule is poorly worded and refers to something along the lines of excessive lubricant/grease etc. you end up in a situation like this. I really can't remember or be bothered to look it up the exact rule, but The reason the rule was changed is because it was always ridiculous to have your own corner able to apply things between rounds. On top of that who or what constitutes excessive? you need to control
these things and before this controversy there was no control. That's why it is hard to blame gps or his corner.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> I've seen both of the videos you posted, as well as all the other parts of the second video. Still never bought that it was intentional, nor do I think it is the main reason BJ lost. He tried to work the same thing on Fitch and it didn't work, it slipped down the same way. Did Fitch grease?


This isn't about "Was it the main reason BJ lost". It's about the fact that GSP greased in order to give himself an advantage and cheated. Whether or not him greasing was the main reason he won the fight is not what I'm arguing and not the damn point.

The evidence in those video's is right there, can you not see the tub of vaseline? The look on Georges face when the vaseline drops to the floor? Do you just not see that? Or do you choose to ignore it?

Then you have five other fighters making the same accusation, FIVE. You think they're all just bitter they lost to GSP and want to accuse him of cheating? Five guys? Some how, I don't think so.

Dana White even admitted it, also ON VIDEO. That Georges was in big trouble and he said that greasing was totally unacceptable and unfair.

@Ape. i don't respect any cheaters that intentionally wish to cheat their opponent out of a fair fight. That means roiders, greasers, any form of intentional cheating.

Akiyama is anther one I hate. His fight against Sakuraba is a crime against humanity, he should be banned from the sport.

The reason this greasegate is so huge and is still brought up to this day is because at the time it featured arguably the top p4p 1 and 2 fighters in the world going at it in a superfight. It was huge.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Ape City said:


> Well here we are still talking about Greasegate.
> 
> Here's all that matters to me:
> 
> ...


So bascially because they didn't make an effort to hide it then that means that they didn't know the rules? This is team jackson you are talking about, the camp that uses every advantage possible, even if questionable, to win. The basis for grappling is being able to grab on to something. Fighting BJ Penn which they didn't want to stand with, decided he was going to be taken down again and again where his only tool to win would be submission, and you don't think it was part of the plan?

Also I can't speak for anyone else, but if a fighter is caught cheating with ANY substance you lose my respect PERIOD (weed doesn't count BTW IMO). Also by not denying something doesn't mean get a pass. Of course they couldn't deny it, they were on PPV with cameras all over them. Of course they would take the "We didn't know" route. They figured until they were called on it (by other's fighters admission this has been going on for quite some time now) they would continue.



> When a rule is poorly worded and refers to something along the lines of excessive lubricant/grease etc. you end up in a situation like this. I really can't remember or be bothered to look it up the exact rule, but The reason the rule was changed is because it was always ridiculous to have your own corner able to apply things between rounds. On top of that who or what constitutes excessive? you need to control
> these things and before this controversy there was no control. That's why it is hard to blame gps or his corner.


This is the same excuse used by some people in Wall Street that will work any loop holes to **** you and your mother, and shrug their shoulders afterwards. All because it isn't "worded right" doesn't give you as a fighter and as a camp to use whatever means necessary to get the job done if it means bordering on legality. Sure you'll get the win but you lose respect and integrity.


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## Beeg (Nov 19, 2006)

To recap for those who weren't paying attention the first time:

1) At the time of the GSP vs Penn II fight, the rules for applying grease in MMA were the same as boxing.

2) In boxing they can apply grease anywhere, as long as it's not excessive.

3) Boxers apply grease to their face (to stop abrasion cuts) and to their shoulders, chest and upper back down past the shoulder blades. This is to stop abrasion burns when against the ropes. 

4) There was nothing illegal done in GSP's corner during the Penn II fight. This is why GSP was not fined, sanctioned or DQ'd. 

5) The UFC amended their rules after this bout only allowing their staff to apply grease. The rule was changed not because GSP was cheating, but because so many cement heads made such an issue of it after the Penn fight. 

6) Other fighters had also been applying grease to their shoulders and back (Franklin for one)... because it was legal.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Soakked said:


> So bascially because they didn't make an effort to hide it then that means that they didn't know the rules? This is team jackson you are talking about, the camp that uses every advantage possible, even if questionable, to win. The basis for grappling is being able to grab on to something. Fighting BJ Penn which they didn't want to stand with, decided he was going to be taken down again and again where his only tool to win would be submission, and you don't think it was part of the plan?
> 
> Also I can't speak for anyone else, but if a fighter is caught cheating with ANY substance you lose my respect PERIOD (weed doesn't count BTW IMO). Also by not denying something doesn't mean get a pass. Of course they couldn't deny it, they were on PPV with cameras all over them. Of course they would take the "We didn't know" route. They figured until they were called on it (by other's fighters admission this has been going on for quite some time now) they would continue.
> 
> ...


What I am saying is the fact they did not try to hide the application of vaseline coupled with the fact no disciplinary action was taken demonstrates Jackson and his camp probably _were_ aware of the rule and felt they were not applying it excessively. That doesn't make them right, but I think that is just as believable as Jackson deciding to risk his reputation, his camps, and GSPs career on purpose only to get a small advantage over BJ.

I'm not telling people they can't lose respect and integrity for GSP. I am saying calling him a cheater is incorrect. What they did fell into a grey area and that is why no action was taken. 

I completely agree that they knew it was manipulating the rule, and I don't really buy the claim Nurse had no idea there was any vaseline onhis hands, but like you said they use every possible advantage to win. Clearly they thought this was something they could use to their advantage that barely fell within the rules.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

I see what you are saying, basically the label is the arguing point, and you do make a valid point on that. I will refrain from calling him a cheater, because technically there was nothing specifically written stating what they did was illegal, though it was certainly borderline. And you are right, it becomes a question of risk assessment, and IMO club Jackson chose wrong, in that they were chancing the possibility of losing some rep which of course they did because of this whole mess.

To be fair I am sure many other camps have done the same, maybe not on the same level (as far as not pushing it to far), or maybe it has to do with camp recognition; smaller camps have much less to lose in reputation and being that camp Jackson is one of the bigger and well known camps the focus was more pronouced. Dunno:confused02:


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Fine Wine said:


> Worst part is, despite the obvious greasing in that fight, people still give GSP credit as being a master guard passer and smashing up Penn (when the first fight was down to the wire and the second an obvious joke. I mean how do you change a rule, but not alter the verdict of the bout for which the rule was changed a no contest?). I don't get it.
> 
> BJ really got ripped here whether GSP or his corner meant to cheat or not and that is the part that is always missed in these debates. Intentional cheating or not, BJ was ripped off that night.


Your right that is the worst part....


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Soakked said:


> I see what you are saying, basically the label is the arguing point, and you do make a valid point on that. I will refrain from calling him a cheater, because technically there was nothing specifically written stating what they did was illegal, though it was certainly borderline. And you are right, it becomes a question of risk assessment, and IMO club Jackson chose wrong, in that they were chancing the possibility of losing some rep which of course they did because of this whole mess.
> 
> To be fair I am sure many other camps have done the same, maybe not on the same level (as far as not pushing it to far), or maybe it has to do with camp recognition; smaller camps have much less to lose in reputation and being that camp Jackson is one of the bigger and well known camps the focus was more pronouced. Dunno:confused02:


Ya that is exactly the way I see it. I would also bet money that it isn't the last time underdeveloped rules cause controversy and questionable behavior. I think it just comes with the territory of a new sport.


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## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

Beeg said:


> To recap for those who weren't paying attention the first time:
> 
> 1) At the time of the GSP vs Penn II fight, *the rules for applying grease in MMA were the same as boxing.
> 
> ...


Interesting. Wasn't aware of that. But if that is the case it's just incomprehensible why there was any controversy at all. Amongst fans and people who didn't know the rule, sure. But so many fighters, D White, journalists, even amongst officials? They all didn't know a seemingly basic rule? It's just weird. 

Because then it's just something like using the rules to score a takedown with 5 sec to go with no chance of doing any damage. And in such cases people blame the rule, not the fighter.


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