# If Shields beats Henderson...



## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

...does that put him in your P4P lists? I know its a massive if and i have the fight ending in Hendo KO or TKO (although i give Shields a much better chance than most.) I've underestimated Shields before, but wont do again.
Loads of people say he hasn't fought good competition but he has wins over Pyle, Condit, Okami, Lawler and Paul Daley - none of whom are cans.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Top ten definitely I would say. How far up depends on Mo/Mousasi, Gilbert/Aoki, and Faber/Aldo.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

p4p list? He'd get a little higher in his own weight division but I don't see why a win over Hendo would catapult him to p4p status.

Dude has a great string of wins chained together but he isn't fighting top 10 guys (this is his first).

I know some people already have him on their p4p list but I just think it is too early.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Ape City said:


> p4p list? He'd get a little higher in his own weight division but I don't see why a win over Hendo would catapult him to p4p status.
> 
> Dude has a great string of wins chained together but he isn't fighting top 10 guys (this is his first).
> 
> I know some people already have him on their p4p list but I just think it is too early.


Because he is a natural WW who moved up to MW for challenges. If he wins he will have moved up and beaten Lawler, Miller, and Hendo at MW. If Aldo, Mousasi, and Aoki all lose and he wins you have to put him atleast in the 4-7 area. Really you can argue his record would be more impressive from a p4p perspective than GSP, Hendo is tied with Franklin for second greatest MW of all time. The guy is undefeated in 5 years against good competition you act like he only won his last 2 fights.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

osmium said:


> Because he is a natural WW who moved up to MW for challenges. If he wins he will have moved up and beaten Lawler, Miller, and Hendo at MW. If Aldo, Mousasi, and Aoki all lose and he wins you have to put him atleast in the 4-7 area. Really you can argue his record would be more impressive from a p4p perspective than GSP, Hendo is tied with Franklin for second greatest MW of all time. The guy is undefeated in 5 years against good competition you act like he only won his last 2 fights.


How do I act like he only won his last two fights when I state in the post you quoted that he has a great string of wins and I recognize many others consider him top 10?

How can you say it could be considered better than GSP when the competition he fought when he moved up is hardly world class? Hendo is his first legit top 10. I respect the dude, and moving up in weight certainly helps your p4p status, but I still think the most important factor is the quality of your opponents. 

Like you said, he has fought good competition, but Dan is the first great fighter he has fought. Anyways if he wins this fight I would not consider it crazy to have him on a pound for pound list.

*I think he needs one more legit win over another top ten fighter then i would probably squeeze him at number 8 or 9.*

Side note, Aoki isn't on my p4p so that won't make a difference.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

If he beats henderson im going to punch a kitten :confused05:

Lets hope that doesnt happen


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Top10 definatly if he's able to defeat Hendo...


He cleaned the world out of every good WW not in the UFC before he moved up to MW..

Jake doesn't even like fighting at MW but is doing it to silence critics.....

I'd really like to see him move back down to 170 where he's not so outsized....


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## punchbag (Mar 1, 2010)

edlavis88 said:


> ...does that put him in your P4P lists? I know its a massive if and i have the fight ending in Hendo KO or TKO (although i give Shields a much better chance than most.) I've underestimated Shields before, but wont do again.
> Loads of people say he hasn't fought good competition but he has wins over Pyle, Condit, Okami, Lawler and Paul Daley - none of whom are cans.


How can you forget Jason "Mayhem" Miller,lol


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

That would be the biggest win of his career. 

But he isnt anywhere near a P4P list IMO.......


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

It definitely does imo. Dude's a natural WW and he beats one of the best MWs? Common, he's gotta be in the top 10.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

JimmyJames said:


> That would be the biggest win of his career.
> 
> But he isnt anywhere near a P4P list IMO.......


Can you give me 10 fighters who deserve to be above him?


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Xerxes said:


> It definitely does imo. Dude's a natural WW and he beats one of the best MWs? Common, he's gotta be in the top 10.


Exactly my thoughts, you can't deny him.


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## imissyellowcard (Mar 24, 2010)

xeberus said:


> If he beats henderson im going to punch a kitten :confused05:
> 
> Lets hope that doesnt happen


dude, im in. but i got a dog. hes not that big though. hendo loses and im kicking his ass. dont worry bandit (thats my dog), hendo wont lose.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Jake hasn't lost a fight since what 2004 or 2005?

He's on about a 13 fight win streak... 80 % of those fights he finished by the first or second rounds.....

He's defeated.....

Yushin Okami
Hayato Sakurai
Carlos Condit
Paul Daley
Jason Miller
Nick "The Goat" Thompson
Robbie Lawler
Dave Menne
Toby Imada
Mike Pyle...

These guys are all tough veterans..... He's held a title in every organization he's competed in...

He's a natrual WW moving up because he's cleaned out every WW that isn't in the UFC that's worth a damn...

At MW he's about to face the last MW and LHW champion of PRIDE.

If he wins this fight...... he deserves a very high ranking IMO.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Nah, his name should not be in the same sentence as p4p.

sorry.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

If he beats dan he will be a top mw but nowhere near the top 10 p4p.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

*prepares to punch kitten*


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I have a feeling we're about to see a looooot of kitten punching ITT


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

And there we go. Open your eyes everyone, open them.


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## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

Indestructibl3 said:


> And there we go. Open your eyes everyone, open them.


Sorry, busy sleeping.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

vilify said:


> Nah, his name should not be in the same sentence as p4p.
> 
> sorry.


sure... lol



marcthegame said:


> If he beats dan he will be a top mw but nowhere near the top 10 p4p.



Okay... a top MW....


He already was a top 5 WW before moving up in weight class..

So if he's a top MW.... and a top WW.... than you're saying that he's not a top p4p still?

How many top 10 P4P fighters actually bounce between weight classes and successfully dominate the way he does?

I'll tell you who. Only Anderson Silva.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

He's always been in my list. #6-7 MMA in general. #2-3 MW, used to be #4-5 WW.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

_RIVAL_ said:


> sure... lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn dude why you have to neg me like that? I'm now -880,000 just because I stated my opinion. 

I will repeat myself I think shields is an awesome fighter and a top MW no doubt, but I feel the word p4p gets thrown around too much these days. until he beats a few more "top" mw's (in the UFC) I will keep him off that list.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

What amazes me is that he's a top competitor without being well rounded. If Greg Jackson were to steal him for six months he'd have a better candidate to fight GSP for the belt than currently exists in the UFC.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

vilify said:


> Damn dude why you have to neg me like that? I'm now -880,000 just because I stated my opinion.
> 
> I will repeat myself I think shields is an awesome fighter and a top MW no doubt, but I feel the word p4p gets thrown around too much these days. until he beats a few more "top" mw's (in the UFC) I will keep him off that list.


What you talkin bout willis?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

After making Hendo looks silly adnd slapping him for 5 rounds i'd say he deserves Hendos spot. I'll take back my "one more fight after this" comment.


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## onthebrink2 (Oct 4, 2006)

I hope no kittens were hurt after this fight. If you did punch a kitten i hope you punched it as hard as Shields was punching Hendo.


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

Have to rank him 5th (above Penn) now. Still not that huge fan of his, but have to admit that Hendo win really improved his position.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Diokhan said:


> Have to rank him 5th (above Penn) now. Still not that huge fan of his, but have to admit that Hendo win really improved his position.


I've never seen Hendo controlled and domiated like that... and he's fought HW and LHW legends....

Very impressive from a natural WW who was widely being considered unable to even be able to take him down...


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

_RIVAL_ said:


> I've never seen Hendo controlled and domiated like that... and he's fought HW and LHW legends....
> 
> Very impressive from a natural WW who was widel being considered unable to even be able to take him down...


Pretty much what I was thinking. Hendo was ranked #2 on pretty much everyone's MW ladder and popular prediction was that Hendo's wrestling would be too much for Shields to handle and Hendo would eventually knock him out.
Instead of getting knocked out Shields took Hendo down several times and although he got rocked standing couple times he outscored Hendo there too.

I was sure Shields would get badly outwrestled and controlled by Kos and Fitch in ufc while guys like Swick and Alves would easily be able to keep it standing against him. However after seeing him outwrestle #2 MW Im sure he can atleast put up a fight against all of them now.

Jake lacks KO power though and hasn't really subbed too experienced grapplers yet, but he is still finishing more fights than Jon "the decisioner" Fitch does. 

Basically though he jumped ahead of AKA guys atleast on my WW ladder, I really wanna see him in ufc now.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

_RIVAL_ said:


> I've never seen Hendo controlled and domiated like that... and he's fought HW and LHW legends....
> 
> Very impressive from a natural WW who was widel being considered unable to even be able to take him down...





Diokhan said:


> Pretty much what I was thinking. Hendo was ranked #2 on pretty much everyone's MW ladder and popular prediction was that Hendo's wrestling would be too much for Shields to handle and Hendo would eventually knock him out.
> Instead of getting knocked out Shields took Hendo down several times and although he got rocked standing couple times he outscored Hendo there too.
> 
> I was sure Shields would get badly outwrestled and controlled by Kos and Fitch in ufc while guys like Swick and Alves would easily be able to keep it standing against him. However after seeing him outwrestle #2 MW Im sure he can atleast put up a fight against all of them now.
> ...


I think the lay off really hurt Henderson, he hasn't fought since UFC 100 and he's an older guy.

Having said that cred to Shields, he has great control from the top, but he is just not a finisher. He tried on sub at the end of the second and he had Dan mounted in every other round. He is just content to take no chances score points and get to the judges.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Life B Ez said:


> I think the lay off really hurt Henderson, he hasn't fought since UFC 100 and he's an older guy.
> 
> Having said that cred to Shields, he has great control from the top, but he is just not a finisher. He tried on sub at the end of the second and he had Dan mounted in every other round. He is just content to take no chances score points and get to the judges.



He's finished 8 of his last 10 though.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

_RIVAL_ said:


> He's finished 8 of his last 10 though.


He was clearly not trying to finish Hendo, he tried one sub and he got the mount in the last four rounds. He was playing really safe and didn't want to risk Henderson getting back to his feet and now there are some things swirling around that Henderson had a back injury. I just want to know who Hendo is going to fight next? The rest of SF is kind of weak.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Life B Ez said:


> He was clearly not trying to finish Hendo, he tried one sub and he got the mount in the last four rounds. He was playing really safe and didn't want to risk Henderson getting back to his feet and now there are some things swirling around that Henderson had a back injury. I just want to know who Hendo is going to fight next? The rest of SF is kind of weak.


At MW? He's got some action....

Melvnin "No Mercy" Manhoef
Robbie Lawler
Jason Mayem Miller
Jacare Souza
Tim Kennedy (unknown but very dangerous)

He also has a few interesting fights at LHW

Mousasi
Mo
Rafael Feijao
Babalu Sobral

There is some competition here for Dan Henderson.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

_RIVAL_ said:


> At MW? He's got some action....
> 
> Melvnin "No Mercy" Manhoef
> Robbie Lawler
> ...


I don't think there is a whole lot of competition at MW. I wouldn't mind seeing him move to LHW against Mo, Mousasi and Babalu. I just don't think MW is that deep and what is he going to do, beat up a couple guys to get back at Shields?


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Life B Ez said:


> I don't think there is a whole lot of competition at MW. I wouldn't mind seeing him move to LHW against Mo, Mousasi and Babalu. I just don't think MW is that deep and what is he going to do, beat up a couple guys to get back at Shields?


Exactly what he needs to do if Jake doesn't sign with Zuffa.

Working for a title shot or another attempt to hold said title is the primary goal of an MMA fighter.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> I've never seen Hendo controlled and domiated like that... and he's fought HW and LHW legends....
> 
> Very impressive from a natural WW who was widely being considered unable to even be able to take him down...


Surprised the hell out of me too. If anyone was ever signed with the premier intent of being an assassin, Hendo was it. Assassination foiled.... :confused05:

and special agent Nate Diaz, CIA for the UFC successfully executed Operation Riot. Hell of a weekend for SF.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

VolcomX311 said:


> Surprised the hell out of me too. If anyone was ever signed with the premier intent of being an assassin, Hendo was it. Assassination foiled.... :confused05:


He certainly did... and was doing his damndest to finish Jake in the first and make a statement..

That big right hand has stopped many.... mission stifled....[/QUOTE]


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

_RIVAL_ said:


> He certainly did... and was doing his damndest to finish Jake in the first and make a statement..
> 
> That big right hand has stopped many.... mission stifled....


He never landed that clean and he still dropped how many times? Two or Three? Jake looked scared for his life at the end of the first, he couldn't take Dan down and he was getting his ass kicked and then Hendo just stopped sprawling. Dan got thinking about landing that right too much, he does it a lot. He just loads up that right and forgets about his legs and gets taken down.


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