# Chael Sonnen "Anderson you have 24 hours"



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Ed Soares makes me think that Anderson Silva is afraid of Chael Sonnen. I wish Anderson can just talk for himself instead of having that creepy Ed Soares do the talking. Why does ED do the talking anyway??? I understand translating stuff but Soares has been doing all these interviews without Anderson. The guy is just a freaking parasite.....

Oh sorry what were we talking about again??? Thats right Chael Sonnen being kind and giving Anderson 24 hours to accept the fight.


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

It's probably because Silva's English isn't fluent enough to explain what his game plan's are and what his camp his doing. Either that, or he just doesn't feel comfortable speaking it as English isn't his first language, in which case he shouldn't have to.

As for Sonnens twitter message, it's typical Sonnen. What else are you going to expect?


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Silva is doing the right thing and ignoring this fool. Chael has been talking for what just over a year now. Its gonnab e recycle material and silva is a coward bs going forward. Sonnen is a troll you gotta be really messed up to buy into him.

He talked last time and tapped, u can't build something up like than and then lose. To top it all off he was on roids. 
I see no point in him building up a rematch and giving silva a big payday for just showing up.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> He talked last time and tapped, u can't build something up like than and then lose. To top it all off he was on roids.
> I see no point in him building up a rematch and giving silva a big payday for just showing up.


You can when you're the only person in the UFC that can give Anderson a decent fight.

And where do you get your facts from? Chael wasn't on roids.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I do hope they sign this fight.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MikeHawk said:


> You can when you're the only person in the UFC that can give Anderson a decent fight.
> 
> And where do you get your facts from? Chael wasn't on roids.


People like to refer to TRT as steroids. Though i get that TRT raises your testosterone levels and is considered a roid, but to think that all "Steroids" do is increase testosterone levels is a bit silly. If Chael was buying steroids from some body builder and cheating by using them the effects of that would have been alot more then what TRT can produce.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

MikeHawk said:


> You can when you're the only person in the UFC that can give Anderson a decent fight.
> 
> And where do you get your facts from? Chael wasn't on roids.





SideWays222 said:


> People like to refer to TRT as steroids. Though i get that TRT raises your testosterone levels and is considered a roid, but to think that all "Steroids" do is increase testosterone levels is a bit silly. If Chael was buying steroids from some body builder and cheating by using them the effects of that would have been alot more then what TRT can produce.


Sonnen nuthuggers are in such denial, it's ridiculous the technicalities they hang on to.

Testosterone is a *steroid* hormone. It's not about what people "like to refer to it" as 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...&ei=CamaTpT8E9G28QOHzbnRBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQkQ4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone

Chael had 4 times the normal permitted level of testosterone pumping through his veins during the Anderson silva fight. Prescription or not, he IS NOT allowed to have over the normal limit. 

i.e. Chael was on steroids the night he fought Silva.

And no one said anything about all steroids doing is raising your testosterone levels. Steroids can do a ton of things that give you an unfair advantage ... muscle building, hiking aggression levels and pain tolerance, stamina building and so on. It doesn't matter, we're not debating the technicalities of which steroid he was on, we're just saying he was on one.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> Sonnen nuthuggers are in such denial, it's ridiculous the technicalities they hang on to.
> 
> Testosterone is a *steroid* hormone. It's not about what people "like to refer to it" as
> 
> ...



Chael cheated. People need to accept this.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> Sonnen nuthuggers are in such denial, it's ridiculous the technicalities they hang on to.
> 
> Testosterone is a *steroid* hormone. It's not about what people "like to refer to it" as
> 
> ...




I swear... some people just want to argue even when there is nothing to argue about. I think its because of their insecurities or something.

I am not really sure what you are trying to convey here that i supposedly dont know. Do people refer to TRT as the same thing as taking steroids??? yes yes they do. Is it a steroid... yes yes it is. Does simply taking TRT give all the effects of someone that is shooting steroids up illegally in order to get a unfair advantage over his opponents? it can but normally people will take alot of other steroids that do more then just up their testostrone so in that case it does not.

I mean... everything i said in my post you basically repeated except you worded in such a way that made it seem like you are schooling me or something. Oh and ofcourse you added some stuff that was supposed to show how crazy smart you are or something like that even though i dont really care.
Your too much man :happy02:

I oh so love when people do that. It just shows me how much more comfortable i am in supporting Chael then they are in supporting their fighter, so much so that they have to imagine arguments in order to feel like they are winning or something.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

^ Do you admit he cheated, yes or no?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

AmdM said:


> ^ Do you admit he cheated, yes or no?




I certainly dont believe that Chael was shooting himself up with testosterone in order to get an unfair advantage over his opponents and i dont believe he was asking his doctor that either.
What i believe is that Chael wanted to be on even grounds with other athletes but as everyone knows TRT isnt an exact science and it is extremely hard to predict where your testosterone levels are going to be a week,2 weeks,3 weeks later after you take your shot. if i recall he said that they thought his testosterone would be lower then it was but it was going back down slower then expected.

Only thing i think he is guilty of is not testing his testosterone more often and being more pro active to make sure he is in normal levels.

So that doesnt answer your question because it isnt as simple as a Yes or No. 

I do think Chael broke the rules but i think he didnt break them on purpose.
And the performance he had against Brian Stann only solidifies this opinion. 
Thats the closest i can give you to a yes or not answer.

And another thing... i certainly dont think people should call him a steroid freak or w/e because putting Chael in the same mix as the people buying 10 different roids from the black market is a great injustice to everyone. 
Guys like Chris Leben and Vitor Belfort do illegal steroids that benefit them in ways alot more then TRT ever could BUT they get a pass. There is a complete double standard even though Chael Sonnen was part of the lesser of the two evils.
People hating are just hating because they dont like the guy. Those same people have posts praising these people that have been caught for steroids but they get a pass since they arnt Chael mother ******* Sonnen.


But TBH

What does that have to do with anything?? I am not getting why you are trying to argue this with me?? Dont you get bored of repeating the same thing in every thread? 

Everything that can be said on the situation has been said. There is absolutely NOTHING you can add to the Chael-Silva conversation that is going to change ANYONES opinion much less mine.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

All that text and i still don't get what your opinion on the matter is, so i'll ask again: yes or no?
Choose the one you think is more appropriated, please.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

AmdM said:


> All that text and i still don't get what your opinion on the matter is, so i'll ask again: yes or no?
> Choose the one you think is more appropriated, please.


The answer is in "All that text".


If your too lazy to read then thats on you. Dont ask me questions that you wont understand the answer to.

I knew i shouldn't have wasted my time giving you a thoughtful response. Shame on me for thinking you are anything more then a shitty troll. 

Fool me once shame on you
Fool me twice shame on me


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> People like to refer to TRT as steroids. Though i get that TRT raises your testosterone levels and is considered a roid, but to think that all "Steroids" do is increase testosterone levels is a bit silly. If Chael was buying steroids from some body builder and cheating by using them the effects of that would have been alot more then what TRT can produce.


TRT is steroid injections, dude.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> TRT is steroid injections, dude.


Holy ****...

Really???

omgggggggg

I never knew this. 

Can you show me where in my post i said that TRT is NOT a steroid injection?? I believe that i said it i just cant figure out where. So can you please show me?? Since you are spreading so much knowledge already i figure this wont be such a hard thing to do? 

Thanks in advance.! :hug:


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> The answer is in "All that text".
> 
> 
> If your too lazy to read then thats on you. Dont ask me questions that you wont understand the answer to.
> ...


I read it, but it has too many subjective matter in it, to determine your exact opinion on the matter.
I guess if you don't have the guts to come plain and simple with an answer, than it's because you know he cheated and don't have the manhood to admit it...

...Chicken soup anyone?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

AmdM said:


> I read it, but it has too many subjective matter on,
> to determine your exact opinion on the matter.
> I guess if you don't have the guts to come plain and simple with an answer, than it's because you know he cheated and don't have the manhood to admit it...
> 
> ...Chicken soup anyone?


Man you Chael Haters are something else alright.

I separated my answer so it was very clear where i stand on the manner. The reason it isnt as easy as Yes or No is because some things just arnt as easy as an Yes or No answer. If you cannot understand that then you have just backed up the opinion of you that was floating around my head a minute ago.



> I certainly dont believe that Chael was shooting himself up with testosterone in order to get an unfair advantage over his opponents and i dont believe he was asking his doctor that either.
> What i believe is that Chael wanted to be on even grounds with other athletes but as everyone knows TRT isnt an exact science and it is extremely hard to predict where your testosterone levels are going to be a week,2 weeks,3 weeks later after you take your shot. if i recall he said that they thought his testosterone would be lower then it was but it was going back down slower then expected.
> 
> Only thing i think he is guilty of is not testing his testosterone more often and being more pro active to make sure he is in normal levels.
> ...


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> Holy ****...
> 
> Really???
> 
> ...


You clearly implied it wasn't the same thing. And stop saying "taking TRT". TRT is the name of the program that is used to combat low T. The actual program consists of a bunch of steroid injections including artificial androgen like Nadralone...which is pretty much universally banned across sport.

MMA is a joke right now for allowing this. Particularly for guys like Hendo who are just using it to delay aging.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> I certainly dont believe that Chael was shooting himself up with testosterone in order to get an unfair advantage over his opponents and i dont believe he was asking his doctor that either.
> What i believe is that Chael wanted to be on even grounds with other athletes but as everyone knows TRT isnt an exact science and it is extremely hard to predict where your testosterone levels are going to be a week,2 weeks,3 weeks later after you take your shot. if i recall he said that they thought his testosterone would be lower then it was but it was going back down slower then expected.
> 
> Only thing i think he is guilty of is not testing his testosterone more often and being more pro active to make sure he is in normal levels.
> ...


I'm not trying to argure here but I just have to question the fact that you honestly believe he wasn't breaking the rules on purpose. I mean look at his personality, he's shameless, does ANYTHING to get to the goal he's locked on. He cheated on the realestatejob he had, he's a politician and he's know for lying alot.

I know you always defend him so maybe you don't want to admit in public that you think he did it on purpose, but I mean come on. PM me if you don't want everyone to see your real answer. I truely believe that you think he cheated on purpose even though you don't want to admit it because it would make it so much harder to support the guy.

Regarding the steroid/trt discussion you guys where having I just have to add that it's all about what dose, TRT wich is simply testosteron in this case can be equally effective as any black market steroid out there. Testosteron is the or one of the most widely used steroids even for bodybuilders and others who get it from the black market.
So depending on the doses you take it's exactly the same thing. There are hunders or thousands of other roids with different effects, but to say that abusing (if that was what he did) TRT isn't as bad as blackmarket roids is just not true. His T:E ratio was very messed up wich would indicate abuse.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> You clearly implied it wasn't the same thing. And stop saying "taking TRT". TRT is the name of the program that is used to combat low T. The actual program consists of a bunch of steroid injections including artificial androgen like Nadralone...which is pretty much universally banned across sport.
> 
> MMA is a joke right now for allowing this. Particularly for guys like Hendo who are just using it to delay aging.


Great info, thanks. 

Hopefully, someone here can understand that and comprehend from it where the cheating part is.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> You clearly implied it wasn't the same thing. And stop saying "taking TRT". TRT is the name of the program that is used to combat low T. The actual program consists of a bunch of steroid injections including artificial androgen like Nadralone...which is pretty much universally banned across sport.
> 
> MMA is a joke right now for allowing this. Particularly for guys like Hendo who are just using it to delay aging.


TRT is the treatment and i say he is taking it because he is taking the trt treatment. Im not going to stop saying that because there is no reason to.

I actually said in my post that TRT is considered a roid. 

Basically saying that testostrone replacment therapy revolves around taking steroids.

I didnt say that TRT is NOT considered to be steroids.

I can see where some confusion might come from because i tried to over simplify it and did a shitty job doing that BUT to come to these conclusions where i am saying TRT has nothing to do with shooting up or taking steroids is only possible if you want to come to these conclusions so you can talk crap. Not because i have said anything to make you believe those things.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

So Chael Sonnen took roids.

K


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

mmaswe82 said:


> I'm not trying to argure here but I just have to question the fact that you honestly believe he wasn't breaking the rules on purpose. I mean look at his personality, he's shameless, does ANYTHING to get to the goal he's locked on. He cheated on the realestatejob he had, he's a politician and he's know for lying alot.
> 
> I know you always defend him so maybe you don't want to admit in public that you think he did it on purpose, but I mean come on. PM me if you don't want everyone to see your real answer. I truely believe that you think he cheated on purpose even though you don't want to admit it because it would make it so much harder to support the guy.
> 
> ...




Well i can respond to this and then you would respond to me and so on and so on and in the end neither of our opinions would change in the least bit.


I truly do NOT believe he was abusing TRT. When you have incredibly low levels it isnt as simple as taking a certain dose once weekly and you will be at neutral levels. Thats why alot of athletes on TRT do twice a month or more testing because their T is so unpredictable. 

So i do very much believe that Chael just didnt do a good job paying attention to what his levels were. He has reported his treatment for the fights previous of Anderson Silva and he was able to pass those tests.
He just fought Brian Stann and if Chael was busing TRT then his performance should have been worse ESPECIALLY since Chael goes 130% the whole time. Instead Chael looked better then he ever has. Which leads me to believe that the spike in testosterone was a accident/rare occasion and not the Norm.

And to me guys like Chris Leben/Sean sherk/Hermes/Vitor/ ETC. Are alot worse then guys like Chael.

But that is my opinion and i understand and respect that your opinion is different.





Roflcopter said:


> So Chael Sonnen took roids.
> 
> K


Calm down bro.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

How interesting would it be to know his test levels for the Brian Stann fight?


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Well i can respond to this and then you would respond to me and so on and so on and in the end neither of our opinions would change in the least bit.
> 
> 
> I truly do NOT believe he was abusing TRT. When you have incredibly low levels it isnt as simple as taking a certain dose once weekly and you will be at neutral levels. Thats why alot of athletes on TRT do twice a month or more testing because their T is so unpredictable.
> ...


Ok if you say you truely believe that, then I will believe you.

I think Sonnen still abuses his TRT and intends to do so always, just cykling it so that his levels arn't sky high when he's being tested, in training-periods I think he has well over the limit. I think that's why he has no ringrust, never slows down, never gets tired/injured etc.
he might not have been roided up when he fought Stann, but I believe that he was using it in an unfair way for recovery while training, hence his good performances the last few years.



> How interesting would it be to know his test levels for the Brian Stann fight?


Well I think he learned how to cykle them properly now so they are probably within allowed range, however I would be very interested in seeing his levels while training for the fight. say they would do a surprize test some time during traing, I bet they would find some interesting stuff.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

mmaswe82 said:


> Ok if you say you truely believe that, then I will believe you.
> 
> I think Sonnen still abuses his TRT and intends to do so always, just cykling it so that his levels arn't sky high when he's being tested, in training-periods I think he has well over the limit. I think that's why he has no ringrust, never slows down, never gets tired/injured etc.
> he might not have been roided up when he fought Stann, but I believe that he was using it in an unfair way for recovery while training, hence his good performances the last few years.
> ...


I wish they would do surprise testing for all the UFC fighters. I think they would find some interesting stuff then.

From what i gather from fighters comments and how many fighters have been caught. Alot of fighters do steroids probably around half or more. Yet NO ONE performs like Chael. So to credit his performances solely to high testosterone seems a bit naive.


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## ThaiClinchKO (Sep 20, 2009)

Chael lies purposely in just about every interview he gives just to try to manipulate people into seeing things a certain way. That is one definite part of his personality. Why would he treat his training methods any different? As long as he doesn't get caught it's all good in his book it seems like.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

mmaswe82 said:


> Well I think he learned how to cykle them properly now so they are probably within allowed range, however I would be very interested in seeing his levels while training for the fight. say they would do a surprize test some time during traing, I bet they would find some interesting stuff.



I'm not so sure about that.
I think his levels are probably above the range,
but he gets by it, because he have a paper from his medic 
saying he can cheat.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

It isn't cheating if a doctor clears it and the commissions okays it 

As an obvious Sonnen fan, I have no denial. He's fukced up and fukced up badly in the past. That said, the past isn't going to stop him from stomping Anderson Silva in their much awaited rematch. I cannot wait to bathe myself in the tears of all you Silva nuthuggers


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## Dmaster23 (Sep 21, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> I wish they would do surprise testing for all the UFC fighters. I think they would find some interesting stuff then.
> 
> From what i gather from fighters comments and how many fighters have been caught. Alot of fighters do steroids probably around half or more. Yet NO ONE performs like Chael. So to credit his performances solely to high testosterone seems a bit naive.


Yes or no? :sarcastic10:


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## Bscoop12 (Apr 5, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> It isn't cheating if a doctor clears it and the commissions okays it
> 
> As an obvious Sonnen fan, I have no denial. He's fukced up and fukced up badly in the past. That said, the past isn't going to stop him from stomping Anderson Silva in their much awaited rematch. I cannot wait to bathe myself in the tears of all you Silva nuthuggers


I can't wait for Sonnen to bathe in the TRT Juice to have a great performance like like time....

I love when people cheat....:thumbsup:


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## Ryan1522 (Oct 31, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> I certainly dont believe that Chael was shooting himself up with testosterone in order to get an unfair advantage over his opponents and i dont believe he was asking his doctor that either.
> What i believe is that Chael wanted to be on even grounds with other athletes but as everyone knows TRT isnt an exact science and it is extremely hard to predict where your testosterone levels are going to be a week,2 weeks,3 weeks later after you take your shot. if i recall he said that they thought his testosterone would be lower then it was but it was going back down slower then expected.
> 
> Only thing i think he is guilty of is not testing his testosterone more often and being more pro active to make sure he is in normal levels.
> ...


Nate Marquardt was one of my favourite fighters while he was in the UFC. The guy improved so much from one fight to the next, he was exciting and generally seemed like a nice guy. 

Then the whole controversy came when he was pulled from the main event against Rick Story because he did not receive medical clearance. 

Since Marquardt was one of my favourite fighters and Dana would not disclose what Nate did, I went looking for the answer. I watched his interview with his manager on the MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani and was appaled to hear that Marquardt had been in fact taking testosterone prescribed by a physician to increase his own levels.

The problem I have with this is that TRT is to be used for older men who have lost the ability to get an erection and to delay the further effects of their normal aging, a disease known as hypogonadism. Additionally TRT is used for male cancer patients that have lost their testicles and whom therefore can no longer produce their own testosterone.

Are Nate Maruquardt and Chael Sonnen, 32 and 37 years old respectively, older men who have lost their ability to get an erection and suffering from other effects of low testosterone level? Have their testicles been removed because off difficult battles with cancer?

The answer to these questions is unequivocally NO! These are professional athletes, genetically superior people to the everyday man, that are using and abusing this therapy. These men are professional athletes in the prime of their lives not 60 year old men who can get it up or cancer patients that have tragically lost their testicles.

The problem I have with TRT is not it's use with in medicine for everyday people, but when professional athletes get diagnosed by quacks (yes quacks, Marquardt and his manager even stated they would never use the same doctor again) as having Hypogonadism so they can use TRT as a loop hole in the system to cheat.

Worse off, this indirect way of trying to get an advantage over opponents is really sneaky and has the cover of being diagnosed with a disease so that people sympathetically say "Oh, that fighter has hypogonadism he should be allowed to take steroids to treat his disease."

This loop hole is disgusting and fighters that take advantage of it insult the sport, the true fighters that train naturally and the fans for wasting our time.

The really sad thing is that both Chael and Nate are good fighters and their skill level has nothing to do with their steroid use. It's sad to see good talent be thrown away because of poor decision making in trying to gain a very slight competitive edge.

End of rant.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

*reads Ryan1522*

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> People like to refer to TRT as steroids. Though i get that TRT raises your testosterone levels and is considered a roid, but to think that all "Steroids" do is increase testosterone levels is a bit silly. If Chael was buying steroids from some body builder and cheating by using them the effects of that would have been alot more then what TRT can produce.


The reason people are responding to this in a negative way is that it sounds like you are trying to downplay the advantage TRT provides by saying "If Chael was buying steroids from some body builder and cheating by using them the effects of that would have been alot more then what TRT can produce".

How on earth would you know this?

Perfect example of someone trying to subtly downplay the simple fact he cheated.




Ryan1522 said:


> This loop hole is disgusting and fighters that take advantage of it insult the sport, the true fighters that train naturally and the fans for wasting our time.
> 
> The really sad thing is that both Chael and Nate are good fighters and their skill level has nothing to do with their steroid use. It's sad to see good talent be thrown away because of poor decision making in trying to gain a very slight competitive edge.


Totally agree. I find it hilarious that people actually believe Chael needs legitimate TRT. It's a loophole people. It's like getting a doctors note for medical marijuana or pain pills. All you have to do is find the *right doctor* and they will prescribe you whatever you like. It is a business. 

You wanna talk about naive? 

Naive is believing that Chael messed up his dosing.

Naive is believing Chael actually needs TRT at the age of 34.

Naive is believing that someone who has lied, cheated, and committed fraud in the past wont do it again.

"If personality is a series of successful gestures..."


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## Ryan1522 (Oct 31, 2006)

Ape City said:


> The reason people are responding to this in a negative way is that it sounds like you are trying to downplay the advantage TRT provides by saying "If Chael was buying steroids from some body builder and cheating by using them the effects of that would have been alot more then what TRT can produce".
> 
> How on earth would you know this?
> 
> ...





deadmanshand said:


> *reads Ryan1522*
> 
> Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!


Thanks guys, good to know the forum still has some knowledgeable people on it.


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## Bscoop12 (Apr 5, 2010)

Ape City said:


> The reason people are responding to this in a negative way is that it sounds like you are trying to downplay the advantage TRT provides by saying "If Chael was buying steroids from some body builder and cheating by using them the effects of that would have been alot more then what TRT can produce".
> 
> How on earth would you know this?
> 
> ...


I think we have a winner


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> Man you Chael Haters are something else alright.
> 
> I separated my answer so it was very clear where i stand on the manner. The reason it isnt as easy as Yes or No is because some things just arnt as easy as an Yes or No answer. If you cannot understand that then you have just backed up the opinion of you that was floating around my head a minute ago.


Man, I'm reading through this thread watching you get crushed around every corner. So much in fact I feel no need to discuss the details of "cheating" or "not cheating"... but I will say this.

As a Chael fan you void your right to judge anyone else and they chararcter. When you back a man like that, it completely removes your opinion from one substance... sorry but it's true.

Say that a "Chael hater" is "something else"... there is no explanation whatsover for liking Chael Sonnen, the man has zero redeemable qualities. And HE himself is the biggest "hater" in the history of MMA.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Last 2 pages are full of win.
Great to see so many good users around here.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Ryan1522 said:


> Nate Marquardt was one of my favourite fighters while he was in the UFC. The guy improved so much from one fight to the next, he was exciting and generally seemed like a nice guy.
> 
> Then the whole controversy came when he was pulled from the main event against Rick Story because he did not receive medical clearance.
> 
> ...


This was a good post.

My only question. I could be completely wrong about this, but I thought that wrestlers / fighters who have cut weight for most of their lives lose or slow the ability of their body to produce testosterone. Cutting weight is un natural and it does some pretty fucked up things to your body. Years of doing this has some bad effects on a persons body. I thought I read somewhere that low testosterone levels could be a result of this.

As a Chael fan I don't support what he did for him or anyone else. Everyone should be on a fair playing field come fight night. Whether they allow steroids for all fighters or keep them banned, I don't really care. Either way it should be fair.

I think the roids helped him in the fight with Anderson... no question about it. But I also think his best asset has always been his mental toughness, relentless pace, and olympic level wrestling. It's very naive to say that an athlete is only successful because of steroids. There is so much more that factors into it.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Dan Henderson is STILL on TRT, has been since 2007 and will continue to remain on TRT under Zuffa, where's the outrage?


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

VolcomX311 said:


> Dan Henderson is STILL on TRT, has been since 2007 and will continue to remain on TRT under Zuffa, where's the outrage?


Hendo keeps his mouth shut, and seems like a guy you can have a beer with. Thats the difference.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Hendo keeps his mouth shut, and seems like a guy you can have a beer with. Thats the difference.


That's good and fine, but being a cool guy is an irrelevant point for people who are trying to take the moral high ground on this matter. If the rationale is, "If being on TRT is cheating, then Chael's a cheat," then we can apply that same logic, "If being on TRT is cheating, then Dan Henderson...." but Hendo gets a pass because he's cool. That's not a valid difference.


----------



## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

VolcomX311 said:


> That's good and fine, but being a cool guy is an irrelevant point for people who are trying to take the moral high ground on this matter. If the rationale is, "If being on TRT is cheating, then Chael's a cheat," then we can apply that same logic, "If being on TRT is cheating, then Dan Henderson...." but Hendo gets a pass because he's cool. That's not a valid difference.


Oh I agree. Don't get me wrong. It's just easier to hate Chael because he opens his mouth for.

I am both a Chael and Hendo fan.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

VolcomX311 said:


> That's good and fine, but being a cool guy is an irrelevant point for people who are trying to take the moral high ground on this matter. If the rationale is, "If being on TRT is cheating, then Chael's a cheat," then we can apply that same logic, "If being on TRT is cheating, then Dan Henderson...." but Hendo gets a pass because he's cool. That's not a valid difference.


Quit talkin' sense.


----------



## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

I havent read all of Sideways' posts, but from the ones i have read, i gotta back him up and say i pretty much have the same standpoint.

Alot of fighters do TRT and its not to gain an advantage over their opponents, its to try and balance what they see as an imbalance. Chael just got his wrong is all.

Dont get me wrong, i think Chael is a fcuking cock-ring, but everyone thinking he did it intentionally to gain an advantage over Silva is either drunk, high, retarded, or all of the above. Sonnen knows that athletic commissions exist, and that screening is inevitable post fight.

Did Chael "cheat"? Yes. His testerone was above the accepted level.
Did he intentionally "cheat"? No, he just got it wrong is all.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Ryan1522 said:


> Nate Marquardt was one of my favourite fighters while he was in the UFC. The guy improved so much from one fight to the next, he was exciting and generally seemed like a nice guy.
> 
> Then the whole controversy came when he was pulled from the main event against Rick Story because he did not receive medical clearance.
> 
> ...


----------



## oordeel (Apr 14, 2007)

AmdM said:


> I read it, but it has too many subjective matter in it, to determine your exact opinion on the matter.
> I guess if you don't have the guts to come plain and simple with an answer, than it's because you know he cheated and don't have the manhood to admit it...
> 
> ...Chicken soup anyone?


Sigh, in about 10 or 12 years from now, when you're finally out of puberty and your brain has developed enough that it's actually matured, you might understand that not everything in the world is black and white. You might come to realize there is not black and white, just shades of gray.

Anyways, back on topic, I also believe Chael is the N# 1 contender just based on the fact that he beat up Silva (I know, I know, he tapped after 23 1/2 mins).
That said, have you guys ever been in a situation where stuff was looking so grim, basically a hail mary saved you out of that mess? How do you feel after that? I doubt anyone would go like "oh shit, let's do that again."
Maybe that's what Anderson is going through, he threw a hail Mary and is mentally not ready or prepared to be in that situation again.

This is all speculation on my part, in no way do I presume to know what's going on in Anderson's head.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

VolcomX311 said:


> Dan Henderson is STILL on TRT, has been since 2007 and will continue to remain on TRT under Zuffa, where's the outrage?


Hendo is a cheating scum bag too. He just doesn't gain as much ridiculous attention as Chael does because he is always putting HIMSELF in the limelight.

But yea, still both cheaters, both scum bags.


----------



## oordeel (Apr 14, 2007)

Ryan1522 said:


> Nate Marquardt was one of my favourite fighters while he was in the UFC. The guy improved so much from one fight to the next, he was exciting and generally seemed like a nice guy.
> 
> Then the whole controversy came when he was pulled from the main event against Rick Story because he did not receive medical clearance.
> 
> ...


Interesting way of putting it. I can agree with the sentiments you write about.


----------



## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

oordeel said:


> Sigh, in about 10 or 12 years from now, when you're finally out of puberty and your brain has developed enough that it's actually matured, you might understand that not everything in the world is black and white. You might come to realize there is not black and white, just shades of gray.


So, in your opinion, Chael cheated? Yes or no answer.



oordeel said:


> Anyways, back on topic, I also believe Chael is the N# 1 contender *just based on the fact that he beat up Silva* (I know, I know, he tapped after 23 1/2 mins).
> That said, have you guys ever been in a situation where stuff was looking so grim, basically a hail mary saved you out of that mess? How do you feel after that? I doubt anyone would go like "oh shit, let's do that again."
> Maybe that's what Anderson is going through, he threw a hail Mary and is mentally not ready or prepared to be in that situation again.
> 
> This is all speculation on my part, in no way do I presume to know what's going on in Anderson's head.


Chael, is that you?


----------



## evzbc (Oct 11, 2006)

oordeel said:


> Sigh, in about 10 or 12 years from now, when you're finally out of puberty and your brain has developed enough that it's actually matured, you might understand that not everything in the world is black and white. You might come to realize there is not black and white, just shades of gray.
> 
> Anyways, back on topic, I also believe Chael is the N# 1 contender just based on the fact that he beat up Silva (I know, I know, he tapped after 23 1/2 mins).
> That said, have you guys ever been in a situation where stuff was looking so grim, basically a hail mary saved you out of that mess? How do you feel after that? I doubt anyone would go like "oh shit, let's do that again."
> ...


He beat up Silva for 23 mins because he was jacked on drugs. So, it doesn't count. Which means he has to work his way BACK up the ladder like anyone else.

He's a cheater, but let's face it, he's DAM entertaining.

What he's doing right now is not cool. He's trying to bypass everyone else in his division which is a total dick move.


----------



## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

evzbc said:


> *He beat up Silva for 23 mins because he was jacked on drugs. *So, it doesn't count. Which means he has to work his way BACK up the ladder like anyone else.
> 
> He's a cheater, but let's face it, he's DAM entertaining.
> 
> What he's doing right now is not cool. He's trying to bypass everyone else in his division which is a total dick move.


The bold part is all speculation, not fact. Would he have done it without the drugs? I think so. Wrestling is wrestling and Andy aint good at it. Chael is.

There's no one else left in the division. Who is there to work up through? Vitor? Munoz? I sure as hell don't want to watch Andy fight either one of those guys. I wouldn't mind Chael fighting them but he'll walk right through them.


----------



## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

VolcomX311 said:


> That's good and fine, but being a cool guy is an irrelevant point for people who are trying to take the moral high ground on this matter. If the rationale is, "If being on TRT is cheating, then Chael's a cheat," then we can apply that same logic, "If being on TRT is cheating, then Dan Henderson...." but Hendo gets a pass because he's cool. That's not a valid difference.


I agree, both Hendo and Randy are cheats as well. They don't draw as much attention to themselfves tho so they get less shit, I guess it's just the natural way of things. Being a cheat is one thing, being a loudmouth cheat who claims all the crazy stuff that Sonnen does and being surrounded with as much controversy as he is will bring alot more heat on you. That's just the way it works.


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> MMA is a joke right now for allowing this. Particularly for guys like Hendo who are just using it to delay aging.


What is he using to delay aging? Sorry, i'm pretty uneducated on this particular subject, would like to know what he takes though so I can read up on it.


----------



## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> TRT is steroid injections, dude.


Over-simplification, and incorrect.



Roflcopter said:


> You clearly implied it wasn't the same thing. And stop saying "taking TRT". TRT is the name of the program that is used to combat low T. The actual program consists of a bunch of steroid injections including artificial androgen like Nadralone...which is pretty much universally banned across sport.


Wrong again. Testosterone can be taken orally, intramuscularly, or transdermally.



Liddellianenko said:


> And no one said anything about all steroids doing is raising your testosterone levels. Steroids can do a ton of things that give you an unfair advantage ... muscle building, hiking aggression levels and pain tolerance, stamina building and so on. It doesn't matter, we're not debating the technicalities of which steroid he was on, we're just saying he was on one.


I'm not sure you even know what -steroids- are and what -they- can do. I am sure I don't have enough patience to educate you. TRT, it's in the name. TRT does not stimulate an increase in the body's natural testosterone synthesis. Also, the "ton of things" that you describe "muscle building, hiking aggression levels and pain tolerance, stamina building and so on" are all an effect of testosterone.



PheelGoodInc said:


> Hendo keeps his mouth shut, and seems like a guy you can have a beer with. Thats the difference.


Ah, the difference is you like the fighter. It excuses his cheating. I imagine if the roles had been reversed and Anderson Silva had elevated testosterone levels post-fight Silva's nut-huggers would be doing the same thing Sonnen's nut-huggers are doing.




Here's the deal; 99% of you don't know what TRT is, what steroids are and aren't, or a lick about hormones so you talk out of your ass and use Google as a teleprompter.

100% of us aren't Chael Sonnen, Dan Henderson, or Nate Marquardt's doctor so we don't know anything about their medical history or current medical conditions. We don't know what legitimate medical reasoning there is behind TRT use. There are quite a lot of sanctimonious, high-handed people that are making conclusions based on conjecture and Google.


----------



## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Thales said:


> Ah, the difference is you like the fighter. It excuses his cheating. I imagine if the roles had been reversed and Anderson Silva had elevated testosterone levels post-fight Silva's nut-huggers would be doing the same thing Sonnen's nut-huggers are doing.


Ha! I was responding to the question dude. He asked a question, and I responded as to why Hendo doesn't get as much heat as Chael. It does not excuse a damn thing. I like Hendo, Sonnen, and Silva.

FYI spend less time insulting people and more time actually debating instead of "I am so smart you are so dumb but I don't feel the need to actually tell you why I'm so smart."

PS, me thinks you use steroids and therefore feel the need to defend other steroid users.

PS2. If thats a picture of you in your avatar it's super gay. Myspace was like 10 years ago dude.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Haha i love you Anderson fans soooooo much. You are incredibly passionate when it comes to Chael and his TRT BUT you could give a **** less if the TRT has anything to do with a different fighter.

You guys dont even care about the cause you guys care about insulting Chael. Thats the sole reason i cant take anything you guys take as anything more then some trash talk from some guy that knows he is behind a keyboard.


I have a mission for you Chael Haters.

*By the time i get back to this thread (1hour) i want to see another 2 pages of bias information that has already been stated in 10 other threads.

1...2...3....START!!*


----------



## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Ha! I was responding to the question dude. He asked a question, and I responded as to why Hendo doesn't get as much heat as Chael. It does not excuse a damn thing. I like Hendo, Sonnen, and Silva.


Good for you.



PheelGoodInc said:


> FYI spend less time insulting people and more time actually debating instead of "I am so smart you are so dumb but I don't feel the need to actually tell you why I'm so smart."


I've laid out why people are incorrect beyond the obvious.
Strong example: http://www.mmaforum.com/1486622-post64.html 



PheelGoodInc said:


> PS, me thinks you use steroids and therefore feel the need to defend other steroid users.


I'm not sure whether I should correct your ignorant definition of what a steroid is, then address that with "no", or just take this portion literally and say; no. 

Well, guess I just went with the latter. * Methinks* you are wrong.



PheelGoodInc said:


> PS2. If thats a picture of you in your avatar it's super gay. Myspace was like 10 years ago dude.


1) PS2 is a video game system. If you were attempting to append your previous post script with another post script it would be a post-post-script (or P.P.S.).

2) FYI, you should take your own advice and "spend less time insulting people and more time actually debating" . Insulting someone's sexuality is so droll for a self-styled debater such as you.

3)I would think having a picture of myself as -my- avatar would be narcissistic. I wouldn't consider it as borderline homosexual as including a picture of another man in your avatar or signature. I merely attribute that as idolization. However, if we're trying to discern sexual orientation from a forum profile I'd say having a picture of Rich Franklin in your signature is pretty damning.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Thales said:


> Good for you.
> 
> 
> I've laid out why people are incorrect beyond the obvious.
> ...




Naw

Your avatar is pretty gay dude.

But each his own i always say.

If that is you then you obviously work hard and why not show off a bit.
No hate here.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> MMA is a joke right now for allowing this. Particularly for guys like Hendo who are just using it to delay aging.


if everyone can do it, then it's not unfair.


----------



## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> Naw
> 
> Your avatar is pretty gay dude.
> 
> ...


No, it's more narcissistic than anything. I'd attach the label of homosexuality more readily to people who use sexual orientation as an insult, or plaster their forum profile with other shirtless men. However, I'm pretty comfortable in my sexual preference so I elect not to drag it into a debate.

As an aside to this post PheelGoodInc. has a hypocritical shirtless photo of himself on his profile.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Thales said:


> No, it's more narcissistic than anything. I'd attach the label of homosexuality more readily to people who use sexual orientation as an insult, or plaster their forum profile with other shirtless men. However, I'm pretty comfortable in my sexual preference so I elect not to drag it into a debate.
> 
> As an aside to this post PheelGoodInc. has a hypocritical shirtless photo of himself on his profile.


Im sorry but the first thing i thought when i saw your avy wasnt "oh he is so narcissistic" it was "Well that looks kind of gay, is his wifebeater wet??? no i dont think it is"

Something about that pic just says GAY. 

Dont take this as an insult though cause im really not insulting you. Im just telling you what i think about it.


----------



## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

Thales said:


> Over-simplification, and incorrect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude, instead of acting tough you should first try to actually understand the posts you respond to. Like this "TRT does not stimulate an increase in the body's natural testosterone synthesis." I don't know what point you try to make but it's true that the natural testosterone synthesis isn't increased. It actually decreases due to negative feedback. So what? As long as you count in how much the natural synthesis decreases you can still reach high body levels simply by adding more. 

No we don't know their medical conditions. We know however that there are suspect doctors who readily prescribe just about anything. So when an athlete is using banned substances which are highly controversal and refers to a doctor's note, the weight of proofing that everything is alright lies on the athlete no?


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Nomale said:


> Dude, instead of acting tough you should first try to actually understand the posts you respond to. Like this "TRT does not stimulate an increase in the body's natural testosterone synthesis." I don't know what point you try to make but it's true that the natural testosterone synthesis isn't increased. It actually decreases due to negative feedback. So what? As long as you count in how much the natural synthesis decreases you can still reach high body levels simply by adding more.
> 
> No we don't know their medical conditions. We know however that there are suspect doctors who readily prescribe just about anything. *So when an athlete is using banned substances* which are highly controversal and refers to a doctor's note, the weight of proofing that everything is alright lies on the athlete no?


The thing we are all ignoring is that Chael Sonen wasnt banned for using an illegal substance. He simply had disclosure problems.


----------



## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

Soooooo hostel up in hur. I think its kinda silly that TRT got brought up . But hey haters gonna hate


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## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> The thing we are all ignoring is that Chael Sonen wasnt banned for using an illegal substance. He simply had disclosure problems.


I probably worded it badly. I meant generally i.e. too high levels of certain substances. 
Many people think he morally has more explaining to do than refering to a doctor's note even if it would have been disclosed properly.


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## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

Nomale said:


> Dude, instead of acting tough you should first try to actually understand the posts you respond to. Like this "TRT does not stimulate an increase in the body's natural testosterone synthesis." I don't know what point you try to make but it's true that the natural testosterone synthesis isn't increased. It actually decreases due to negative feedback. So what? As long as you count in how much the natural synthesis decreases you can still reach high body levels simply by adding more.


Strong reading comprehension. The point was a refutation of: "And no one said anything about *all steroids doing is raising your testosterone levels*. " It was addressing Liddellianenko's implication that testosterone replacement therapy simply raised testosterone levels in addition to the other things he mentioned, which is a gross over-simplification.



Nomale said:


> No we don't know their medical conditions. We know however that there are suspect doctors who readily prescribe just about anything. So when an athlete is using banned substances which are highly controversal and refers to a doctor's note, the weight of proofing that everything is alright lies on the athlete no?


We know that there are suspect doctors who prescribe therapies for suspect diagnoses, but suddenly that implicates every doctor and every diagnosis as being suspect? What do you consider "alright"? Wouldn't providing documentation of a legitimate medical condition whose treatment is associated with an elevated testosterone-to-estrogen level be alright?


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

I said this in a previous thread and feel the need to repeat it here.

What if it was Silva on TRT? What if the exact same reasonings for taking the therapy applied? So, Silva has low Testosterone and needed "legit" TRT to bring him back up to normal levels, except his levels were very high after the Sonnen fight and he failed to disclose his treatment properly.

Now, with that in mind, how would Sonnen have reacted? I'll tell you how... he would have created a shit storm. He would have labelled Silva a cheating motherfucker at every opportunity. Both Sonnen lovers and haters know this would be the case 100%.

That is why Sonnen deserves trolling at every opportunity... at least, from me anyway.


----------



## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> Im sorry but the first thing i thought when i saw your avy wasnt "oh he is so narcissistic" it was "Well that looks kind of gay, is his wifebeater wet??? no i dont think it is"
> 
> Something about that pic just says GAY.
> 
> Dont take this as an insult though cause im really not insulting you. Im just telling you what i think about it.


So your first thought upon seeing my avatar on a forum populated by pictures of shirtless, sweaty, grappling men was "gay"? Interesting response.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Im sorry but the first thing i thought when i saw your avy wasnt "oh he is so narcissistic" it was "Well that looks kind of gay, is his wifebeater wet??? no i dont think it is"
> 
> Something about that pic just says GAY.
> 
> Dont take this as an insult though cause im really not insulting you. Im just telling you what i think about it.


Some one is still in the closet.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Thales said:


> So your first thought upon seeing my avatar on a forum populated by pictures of shirtless, sweaty, grappling men was "gay"? Interesting response.


Uh... yep. If you had a picture boxing someone then your avy probably wouldnt be as gay. Your avy just has a gay vibe to it.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Uh... yep. If you had a picture boxing someone then your avy probably wouldnt be as gay. Your avy just has a gay vibe to it.


Your posts in general have quite a gay vibe to them.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Your posts in general have quite a gay vibe to them.


Says the guy that is basically stalking me at this point. Lawl


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Says the guy that is basically stalking me at this point. Lawl


Can I stroke your hair?


----------



## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Really though, what does it even matter what his avatar is, whether its gay or not, or whether he's gay or not.

Just hug it out and shut the fcuk up pecking at each other like bitchy li'l schoolgirls 

:hug:


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Haha i love you Anderson fans soooooo much. You are incredibly passionate when it comes to Chael and his TRT BUT you could give a **** less if the TRT has anything to do with a different fighter.
> 
> You guys dont even care about the cause you guys care about insulting Chael. Thats the sole reason i cant take anything you guys take as anything more then some trash talk from some guy that knows he is behind a keyboard.
> 
> ...


You should respond to some of the stuff on page 4. Several reasonable arguments including mine are on that page and shockingly neither you nor anyone who supports your argument responded.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

The Lone Wolf said:


> Really though, what does it even matter what his avatar is, whether its gay or not, or whether he's gay or not.
> 
> Just hug it out and shut the fcuk up pecking at each other like bitchy li'l schoolgirls
> 
> :hug:


Im not pecking at him. I told him that nothing i am saying is ment to hate. I just told him my honest opinion on it and i even said good for him that he works so hard. He has a right to show it off. 

So im not sure what you can be referring to. I am allowed to give my opinion and it doesnt have to be taken as something offensive. Read a page back and you would see that i wasnt pecking at him.



Ape City said:


> You should respond to some of the stuff on page 4. Several reasonable arguments including mine are on that page and shockingly neither you nor anyone who supports your argument responded.


I read every post in this thread. Not a single person has said anything that i have not read before or me or someone else has not responded to before. This argument has been done a 100x before if you dont know this. Im in no hurry to waste my time repeating myself or someone else just to have to read another post that i have seen probably 100x except this time its by a different poster.

I am trying to be smart and avoid arguments with Chael haters. They lead no where except to insults and negs by cowards.


----------



## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

Thales said:


> Strong reading comprehension. The point was a refutation of: "And no one said anything about *all steroids doing is raising your testosterone levels*. " It was addressing Liddellianenko's implication that testosterone replacement therapy simply raised testosterone levels in addition to the other things he mentioned, which is a gross over-simplification.


And what implications does the underlined part give to the statement? The part you put in bold is a quote from Sideways which is simply being addressed.



> We know that there are suspect doctors who prescribe therapies for suspect diagnoses, but suddenly that implicates every doctor and every diagnosis as being suspect? What do you consider "alright"? Wouldn't providing documentation of a legitimate medical condition whose treatment is associated with an elevated testosterone-to-estrogen level be alright?


Of course it doesn't implicate everyone, but it isn't very difficult to find one. If you by "legitimate medical condition" mean something like an abnormally low testosterone level caused by this or that then I would take it seriously. But not if the real reason is "I want to be at the highest level allowed." which I think is the real reason.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Thales said:


> Over-simplification, and incorrect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your steroid worship is ridiculous, this is the second thread (http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/95734-d...chael-peoples-champ-sonnen-7.html#post1486622) you've come in with your "Steroid Ph.D." schtick so I'm going to address them both here.

Just because you've sat through some endocrinology lectures doesn't mean you're some genius that has discovered how to completely disregard the laws of the human body and turn into Captain America. 

Messing with the human body long term has consequences ... steroids aren't nutrition, your body can manufacture all the testosterone and hormones it needs, there's a reason it only produces certain levels. These things aren't magic chemicals that the body needs, these are just chemical switches that the body uses to regulate itself. You can play with the switches in case of an emergency, but the body isn't dumb that it needs you to pump it full of chemicals that it's fully capable of making mass quantities of with ease. Nutrition it needs from outside, hormones it knows how to make. If you pump it full of chemicals it already has plenty of, it'll lower it's own production over time to compensate. Sometimes permanently.

And duh I know what TRT is professor, it's when you take synthetic testosterone injections to compensate for lowered natural levels (or just to power up). I never said it raises natural testosterone production, in fact over time it lowers natural production even further and you're dependent on the injections.

I may not be "an expert" like you are because I'm not dumb enough to have taken up Endocrinology just so I could pump myself full of roids and have a jacked up Avatar pic. Don't worry, you can reuse this same gay avatar when you're joining the acne/ED forums in a year or two. 

I am well aware of what steroids are ... they are organic compounds with a similar base chemical structure, which are generally used in organisms to regulate various body functions such as growth, sexual functions, metabolism, protein catabolism, immune system control and so on. 

I'm also aware that there are many different types and not all are "body building" steroids ... some such as cholestrol are pretty mundane, and some such as corticosteroids are used more for stress response and immune response etc. 

Speaking of corticosteroids, that's what led me to my (self-researched or half-baked as you would condescend to say) knowledge of steroids. Don't know why I'm sharing, but perhaps it's relevant here ... about 5 years ago I started getting a small white itchy rash on my knee and over the months it grew a bit so I showed it to a doc and he told me it was Psoriasis. Now that's a dreaded supposedly "incurable" ailment that is apparently an auto-immune disease and can only be controlled and suppressed by corticosteroids. So of course I was all happy with my amazing rash-removing prescribed corticosteroid that got rid of the rash like it was never there. 

But a few months later, the scaly rash came back not just in the knee but on the elbows as well, and it was growing. The steroid was helping the itching but not making it go away anymore. So I go back, and of course I get prescribed a stronger corticosteroid. Same story, rash goes away but few months down, comes back stronger and more widespread. In addition, my skin thinned in many areas, I became sluggish and the smallest cuts would bleed way too long and scar easily. And worst of all the damn thing kept spreading and I feared I'd be a social outcast soon. Keep in mind this was all "prescribed" and "the only way to fight psoriasis". 

I can't remember how much time and money I wasted and how many side-effects I experienced from stronger and stronger corticosteroids before I realized my "medicine" was destroying my body. Eventually I turned to a mix of herbal essential oils for the itching, cut back on drinking, started eating some more wholesome home-cooked food and getting more veggies and fiber, and wouldn't you know it the "incurable" disease is gone. And not temporarily either ... I've been free of it for 2 freaking years now, and I don't do a damn thing, no oils, medicines nothing.

Maybe you think this is irrelevant since I'm talking of corticosteroids whereas you're mostly defending anabolics, but because of my experience I had gotten into talking to buddies and looking up online about steroids in general ... and some of them had similar experiences of having to "move up" the anabolic steroid pyramid or increase dosage in order to compensate for the side effects of the previous ones, synthetic testosterone to compensate for lowered testosterone and so on. It doesn't matter how you "balance" it, in the end you'll always lose. 

But don't listen to me, please by all means please continue with your roid love affair. Why in 6 months you'll be the most ripped dude on Jersey shore!


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> I read every post in this thread. Not a single person has said anything that i have not read before or me or someone else has not responded to before. This argument has been done a 100x before if you dont know this. Im in no hurry to waste my time repeating myself or someone else just to have to read another post that i have seen probably 100x except this time its by a different poster.
> 
> I am trying to be smart and avoid arguments with Chael haters. They lead no where except to insults and negs by cowards.





> If Chael was buying steroids from some body builder and cheating by using them the effects of that would have been alot more then what TRT can produce.


Okay but how do you know what you said in the above quote is true? How do you know it didn't give him a huge advantage?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Ape City said:


> Okay but how do you know what you said in the above quote is true? How do you know it didn't give him a huge advantage?


For me to respond to that i have to go back to the beginning which i am not willing to do.

But in a IF world where IF Chael was abusing TRT then ofcourse it would give him an advantage. I never said it wouldnt. But if someone went to the black market and bought a whole set of steroids created soley to enhance an athletes performance they would get an even bigger advantage.

I know im over simplifying it but i really am trying to avoid this argument again. I have probably spent hours arguing with people over this and i am positive alot of people on here have also because i see them bring up the same argument ever thread that involves Chael,Anderson,Soares. 
So i really dont want to get sucked in to that again.


Btw i now got curious. Do we know what exactly Chael was given?? Not everyone on TRT receives the same stuff. He was probably taking Nandrolone but other then that im not sure.


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## evzbc (Oct 11, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> For me to respond to that i have to go back to the beginning which i am not willing to do.
> 
> But in a IF world where IF Chael was abusing TRT then ofcourse it would give him an advantage. I never said it wouldnt. But if someone went to the black market and bought a whole set of steroids created soley to enhance an athletes performance they would get an even bigger advantage.
> 
> ...


Did you also believe Sean Sherk was innocent?

Chael got busted and tried to talk is way out of it ...he did a good job sounding innocent. But let's face it, that guy would lie to his mother.

And I like him! 

It's such a competitive business I'm sure most of the fighters are taking PEDs that float under then radar (HGH etc) in short cycles to get an edge. Otherwise it's back down to the minors for them.

I dislike the fighters who get busted, but that's not really fair because I'm sure there are many others who do it too and look innocent.

Back to the point though, we ALL wanna see Anderson vs Sonnen 2 (and I'm a Silva fan) but the question is, does he REALLY deserve to be calling out the best fighter in the world and trying to make Silva look like an asshole?


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## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

Liddellianenko said:


> Your steroid worship is ridiculous, this is the second thread you've come in with your "Steroid Ph.D." schtick.


Steroid worship? Don't attribute knowledge of the benefits of steroid use with "worship". 



Liddellianenko said:


> Just because you've sat through some endocrinology lectures doesn't mean you're some genius that has discovered how to completely disregard the laws of the human body and turn into Captain America.


No, I've sat through anatomy and physiology lectures concerning the endocrine system. Having endured those lectures, the required reading, and research I expressed an educated understanding of steroid use. The fact that you're using a straw-man argument to discredit me shows that you have no legitimate response. I never put forth the claim that steroids defied the "laws of the human body", though I've never been informed that the human body has physiological laws, or that taking steroids will turn someone into a super hero.



Liddellianenko said:


> Messing with the human body long term has consequences ... steroids aren't nutrition, your body can manufacture all the testosterone and hormones it needs, there's a reason it only produces certain levels. These things aren't magic chemicals that the body needs, these are just chemical switches that the body uses to regulate itself.


1) I never claimed it didn't have long term consequences, but your uneducated claims that lump every steroid into a harmful, androgenic category is just ignorant.

2) Your body can synthesize all of the steroids it needs, unless you suffer from a homeostatic imbalance which prevents the synthesis of certain hormones (androgenic or otherwise). TRT is a means of correcting a homeostatic imbalance. A doctor prescribes a synthetic testosterone to increase levels to a level consistent with physiological homeostasis. 

3) Actually, yes your body does need steroids. Are you familiar with what role steroids play in the development of primary sexual characteristics, sexual reproduction, or that cholesterol is a steroid necessary for cell mitosis?



Liddellianenko said:


> If you pump it full of chemicals it already has plenty of, it'll lower it's own production over time to compensate. Sometimes permanently.


We're talking about TRT, not the arbitrary consumption of an oral anabolic steroid to bulk up. You seem to enjoy over-generalizations.



Liddellianenko said:


> I may not be "an expert" like you are because I'm not dumb enough to have taken up Endocrinology just so I could pump myself full of roids and have a jacked up Avatar pic. Don't worry, you can reuse this same avatar when you're joining the acne/ED forums in a year or two.


1) I took anatomy and physiology (1/2 + labs) and shadow an endocrinology internist because they are required pre-requisites and increase my competitiveness for medical school.

2) I haven't juiced a day in my life, kid. I practice proper dieting, a regular exercise regiment, and a scientific approach to developing my physique. The fact that I'm 6'0 and weigh 185lbs. doesn't scream anabolic steroids. The fact that you immediately attribute my hard work to steroids is a telling sign that you lack any sort of dedication or motivation to improve, so everyone else must be cheating.

3) I always assumed there were ED support groups, but didn't know about acne support groups. I guess that makes sense.




Liddellianenko said:


> I am well aware of what steroids are ... they are organic compounds with a similar base chemical structure, which are generally used in organisms to regulate various body functions such as growth, sexual functions, metabolism, protein catabolism, immune system control and so on. I'm also aware that there are many different types and not all are "body building" steroids ... some such as cholestrol are pretty mundane, and some such as corticosteroids are used more for stress response and immune response etc.


So glad you used Google to copy and paste a definition, it's fairly obvious though. If you were aware of the above definition prior to this point you were being willfully ignorant in your posts. So, were you unaware and talking out of your ass or willfully ignorant?



Liddellianenko said:


> Speaking of corticosteroids, that's what led me to my (self-researched or half-baked as you would condescend to say) knowledge of steroids. Don't know why I'm sharing, but perhaps it's relevant here ... about 5 years ago I started getting a small white itchy rash on my knee and over the months it grew a bit so I showed it to a doc and he told me it was Psoriasis. Now that's a dreaded supposedly "incurable" ailment that is apparently an auto-immune disease and can only be controlled and suppressed by corticosteroids. So of course I was all happy with my amazing rash-removing prescribed corticosteroid that got rid of the rash like it was never there.
> 
> But a few months later, the scaly rash came back not just in the knee but on the elbows as well, and it was growing. The steroid was helping the itching but not making it go away anymore. So I go back, and of course I get prescribed a stronger corticosteroid. Same story, rash goes away but few months down, comes back stronger and more widespread. In addition, my skin thinned in many areas, I became sluggish and the smallest cuts would bleed way too long and scar easily. And worst of all the damn thing kept spreading and I feared I'd be a social outcast soon. Keep in mind this was all "prescribed" and "the only way to fight psoriasis".
> 
> ...


1) It's called the law of diminishing returns, and it applies to physiology as well as economics. Your body builds a tolerance to just about anything with time.

2) Cool story, and very convenient to your anti-all-steroids stance. I had mild psoriasis on the bridge of my nose and left cheek, I used triamcinolone acetonide cream (a corticosteroid) to clear it up right away. I also reduced my stress, increased the amount of sleep I was getting, and stopped drinking every other day. Now the only time it flairs up is after getting absolutely wasted, a bit of the prescribed cream and it's cleared up. Your point is irrelevant to TRT as a corticosteroid isn't the same as androgen, and I suspect some half-baked story you're trying to use to cover up a gaff in the other thread.

3) Again, I've never taken an androgenic steroid. Just because I can support something based on an educated opinion doesn't mean I'm willing to partake of it. I support capital punishment (death penalty) for someone who commits murder, it doesn't mean given the chance I would serve as the executioner.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> People like to refer to TRT as steroids. Though i get that TRT raises your testosterone levels and is considered a roid, but to think that all "Steroids" do is increase testosterone levels is a bit silly. If Chael was buying steroids from some body builder and cheating by using them the effects of that would have been alot more then what TRT can produce.


Bro his His Testetorone level was 4 TIMES the LEGAL LIMIT, that's A (16 TO 1 RATIO). Also why do you think a 34 year old MMA fighter is on TRT thearpy? Most experts on the subject at Bodybulding.com who have actually used steriods, will tell you-Do to former steriod use. 

I'm not trying to single Chael out, he just caught caught. I truly believe most MMA figheters roid, trt, or use HGH along with some other illegal supplement to gain an advantange. According to most experts, it's very easy to cycle off between testing and ever get caught under expert supervision.


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## samhain (Jan 8, 2007)

A lot of people seem to focus on whether or not legitimate use of TRT is cheating. I said it another thread...with regard to Chael Sonnen and Anderson Silva: They both stepped into the cage and Chael's testosterone levels were 4 times the legal limit which clearly gave him an unfair advantage.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

This is also extremely interesting because Nate Marquardt for example, failed a steroid test, and therefore according to Kizer was not eligible for a therapeutic usage exemption.

Also he talks about how you aren't allowed to "superdose" and that your doctor has to indicate that you won't be gaining any advantage for it in competition.

This is hilarious to me because people are pretending that Chael just for some extremely dubious reason "forgot" to file his paperwork correctly.

What happened was he probably was going to be denied for his TUE and tried to swindle his way into getting away with it by lying and saying he told Kizer had cleared him and that he was aware that he was going to test high.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Your posts in general have quite a gay vibe to them.





SideWays222 said:


> Says the guy that is basically stalking me at this point. Lawl


The terminology is *Cruising*, Mckeever is *Cruising* you Sideways and *cruising* you hard.

And now I've contributed to this thread, hooray for me.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

TheNinja said:


> Bro his His Testetorone level was 4 TIMES the LEGAL LIMIT, that's A (16 TO 1 RATIO). Also why do you think a 34 year old MMA fighter is on TRT thearpy? Most experts on the subject at Bodybulding.com who have actually used steriods, will tell you-Do to former steriod use.
> 
> I'm not trying to single Chael out, he just caught caught. I truly believe most MMA figheters roid, trt, or use HGH along with some other illegal supplement to gain an advantange. According to most experts, it's very easy to cycle off between testing and ever get caught under expert supervision.


16 to 1?? is 4x over the legal limit?


Also can you prove that his testosterone was 4x over the legal limit?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

> It was an interview featuring two participants (Chael Sonnen and Mauro Ranallo) that you knew, at some point, would devolve into who knows what. It inevitably reached that point of absurdity… and more.
> 
> Sonnen immediately said that he would be ‘defending his Middleweight championship’ against Brian Stann on Saturday night in Houston. When asked about what weight he’s at now and if he’ll be able to make the cut, he described it as a ‘painful, struggling challenging week for (making) weight.’ When asked why he hasn’t been publicly trash-talking Brian Stann, he quipped back with this response:
> 
> ...


It is strange that it was said his testosterone was high BUT they never charged him for it and they let him fight. 

You guys think that Chael is being shady BUT dont stop to think what is actually going on. One of the reasons you cant talk to Chael haters.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

VolcomX311 said:


> Dan Henderson is STILL on TRT, has been since 2007 and will continue to remain on TRT under Zuffa, where's the outrage?


People have criticized Hendo for it too. The threads have just been shorter and passions less inflamed.

And Sonnen has been on TRT since 2008, and very well may still be on it. So, that covers every match of his that is relevant to his contender status.



mmaswe82 said:


> I agree, both Hendo and Randy are cheats as well. They don't draw as much attention to themselfves tho so they get less shit, I guess it's just the natural way of things. Being a cheat is one thing, being a loudmouth cheat who claims all the crazy stuff that Sonnen does and being surrounded with as much controversy as he is will bring alot more heat on you. That's just the way it works.


Henderson we know is on TRT, Randy was never given an exemption to use it by any commission that I know of.



SideWays222 said:


> It is strange that it was said his testosterone was high BUT they never charged him for it and they let him fight.
> 
> You guys think that Chael is being shady BUT dont stop to think what is actually going on. One of the reasons you cant talk to Chael haters.


I'm sure in past threads you've criticized people for taking Chael's act as the truth. Yet, you present his words to the media as the truth? What makes you think that a self serving explanation to the media has any basis in fact?

Let's put a few of those claims under the truth-o-scope:



> Not only did I not have elevated testosterone (levels), I was never even accused of that. The state of California never even accused me of that. Josh Gross went on ESPN and falsely reported that. I was never even up against those charges.


The State of California never accused him of elevated testosterone levels?



> The California State Athletic Commission (CSAC) has suspended the license of Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) fighter Chael Sonnen, after Sonnen tested positive for steroids, a banned substance.
> 
> A sample from Sonnen's August 6 drug test came back with a high T/E (testosterone-to-estrogen) level, which is indicative of anabolic steroid use. CSAC learned of the results September 2 and ordered a second test, which also came back positive for steroid use. CSAC received test results from the second sample on September 14 and suspended Sonnen two days later. He is suspended for one year. Sonnen has 30 days to appeal the decision.
> 
> ...


I guess they just BSed the LA Times.



> I took testosterone and testosterone is 100% legal and shame on you as a member of the media for not coming out and not blasting the commission for that. I took testosterone, I offer no apology. Testosterone is not a banned substance in any of the 46 states that govern MMA or the two provinces in Canada. It is completely legal. They banned me for taking a legal substance and I never took an elevated amount, ever.


Testosterone is legal?



> On September 2, 2010, the Commission issued a suspension and fine to Chael Sonnen ("Petitioner") after receiving test results indicating the presence of a drug (exogenous testosterone) that licensees are prohibited from using. (Cal. Code Regs. tit. 4, § 303.)


Minutes from the CSAC hearing.



> (a) The administration or use of any drugs, alcohol or stimulants, or injections in any part of the body, either before or during a match, to or by any boxer is prohibited.
> 
> (b) A person who applies for or holds a license as a professional boxer and who has at any time had a positive drug test confirmed by any commission for any substance described in subsection (c) shall be required as a condition of licensure or renewal to provide a urine specimen. In addition, a licensed boxer shall provide a urine specimen for drug testing either before or after the bout, as directed by the commission representative.
> 
> ...


Cal. Code Regs. tit. 4, § 303

So, yeah... I'm not a doctor, but I'm guessing exogenous testosterone falls under anabolic agents.

Honestly, I (or anyone) could pick apart so much other BS he spewed in that interview, but why should I keep going when so many people have their head in the sand for this guy? So many people have pointed all these things out so many times in so many threads, and a bunch of people just keep regurgitating the same baseless, provably false lines over and over.

I just wanted to get a couple points refuted, since someone was actually taking Chael's account of the proceedings during his song and dance to the media as factual.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

SmackyBear said:


> People have criticized Hendo for it too. The threads have just been shorter and passions less inflamed.
> 
> And Sonnen has been on TRT since 2008, and very well may still be on it. So, that covers every match of his that is relevant to his contender status.
> 
> ...


You just keep proving my point that Chael haters are extremely bias and that arguing about this wont get us anywhere. Iv wasted too much of my time arguing with people as is so im not going to do the same here and explain to you why you are wrong. Il just let you know you are and move on with my life. Hopefully you will have the strength to do the same.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> You just keep proving my point that Chael haters are extremely bias and that arguing about this wont get us anywhere. Iv wasted too much of my time arguing with people as is so im not going to do the same here and explain to you why you are wrong. Il just let you know you are and move on with my life. Hopefully you will have the strength to do the same.


So, reality has an anti-Sonnen bias. I concur.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

SmackyBear said:


> So, reality has an anti-Sonnen bias. I concur.


:bored03:


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> It is strange that it was said his testosterone was high BUT they never charged him for it and they let him fight.
> 
> You guys think that Chael is being shady BUT dont stop to think what is actually going on. One of the reasons you cant talk to Chael haters.


That is if you take Sonnens words for truth, why would anyone? you have said yourself many times that one shouldn't.

Edit: after reading Smackybears post, I would really love to hear you answer that Sideways. He presents alot of good facts as usual, I just feel that when the facts get too good, the Sonnen-fans run away. This wan't meant personally towards you Sideways, I just want you to answer it since you seem to be the defending Sonnen-fan in this thread. 
Seems to be the way this works, argue argue and then "oh shit facts" *poof* Sonnen-fans gone. Every time I present something that would be hard to explain for a fan of Sonnen, I never get an answer to it. Only for them to pop up and argue in the next realated thread using the same arguments, until someone again proves them wrong and so on and so on.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

SmackyBear said:


> People have criticized Hendo for it too. The threads have just been shorter and passions less inflamed.
> 
> And Sonnen has been on TRT since 2008, and very well may still be on it. So, that covers every match of his that is relevant to his contender status.
> 
> ...


Are you saying Chael Sonnen lied? NO WAY!

That's never happened, ever.




mmaswe82 said:


> That is if you take Sonnens words for truth, why would anyone? you have said yourself many times that one shouldn't.
> 
> Edit: after reading Smackybears post, I would really love to hear you answer that Sideways. He presents alot of good facts as usual, * I just feel that when the facts get too good, the Sonnen-fans run away*. This wan't meant personally towards you Sideways, I just want you to answer it since you seem to be the defending Sonnen-fan in this thread.
> Seems to be the way this works, argue argue and then "oh shit facts" *poof* Sonnen-fans gone. Every time I present something that would be hard to explain for a fan of Sonnen, I never get an answer to it. Only for them to pop up and argue in the next realated thread using the same arguments, until someone again proves them wrong and so on and so on.


Um, no. Why are you putting this on Sonnen-fans. That's just typical of Sidewayz, he's the forum strawman and it's funny that people still debate him seriously.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

mmaswe82 said:


> That is if you take Sonnens words for truth, why would anyone? you have said yourself many times that one shouldn't.
> 
> Edit: after reading Smackybears post, I would really love to hear you answer that Sideways. He presents alot of good facts as usual, I just feel that when the facts get too good, the Sonnen-fans run away. This wan't meant personally towards you Sideways, I just want you to answer it since you seem to be the defending Sonnen-fan in this thread.
> Seems to be the way this works, argue argue and then "oh shit facts" *poof* Sonnen-fans gone. Every time I present something that would be hard to explain for a fan of Sonnen, I never get an answer to it. Only for them to pop up and argue in the next realated thread using the same arguments, until someone again proves them wrong and so on and so on.


I hate smackybear with all his facts and stuff ruining my innocence of mr sonnen I steered clear of this thread because quite frankly I don't feel like debating until the fight is confirmed and it is close to the fight date.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Did he really tried to use a Sonnen interview as a reliable source of information? :confused03:


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## Freakshow (Aug 10, 2011)

As much as I would like to add to 10+ pages of cheater/nocheater debate, i'm actually going to ask a question related to the thread topic. Sonnen states his next offer won't be so nice. What does he actually think he can do? "If you don't accept this offer, I'll make another offer that you can completely ignore with no repercussions" Any speculation on what the next "offer" might be?


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## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

Essentially CSAC is telling boxers they can't smoke, drink coffee, drink beer, take their asthma medicine, toke a little weed, or drink soda before a fight. Note it doesn't say directly before a fight, it just says before a fight. Partaking of any of those substances is egregious enough to warrant a license revocation. Way to go California! 

I would bet a hefty sum that Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, Cain Velasquez, etc. have all partaken of one of those substances before a fight. I would also bet that they have partaken of corticosteroids as prescribed by a doctor after an injury or surgery. They would be in violation of CSAC regulations.

Can someone explain to me why someone's personal choice to supplement with caffeine to cut weight prior to a fight, or smoke a fatty with friends, should be grounds for having their license revoked? I'm sure there'll be the usual countering of "It's not fair to those people who don't". Legalize substances with regulation and let the athletes decide. I sure as hell don't care if Anderson Silva smears his shoulder with a topical corticosteroid to reduce inflammation, or if Urijah Faber likes to put a litle "kush up in it" to mellow out after a long day. I also don't care if Brock Lesnar is juicing as long as anyone who wants to juice, and is aware of potential risks, can as well.

For those of you who are keen to question whether or not Chael Sonnen is still using TRT, please note he had to submit a urine specimen before his license was un-suspended.


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

Thales said:


> Essentially CSAC is telling boxers they can't smoke, drink coffee, drink beer, take their asthma medicine, toke a little weed, or drink soda before a fight. Note it doesn't say directly before a fight, it just says before a fight. Partaking of any of those substances is egregious enough to warrant a license revocation. Way to go California!
> 
> I would bet a hefty sum that Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, Cain Velasquez, etc. have all partaken of one of those substances before a fight. I would also bet that they have partaken of corticosteroids as prescribed by a doctor after an injury or surgery. They would be in violation of CSAC regulations.
> 
> ...


I dunno man.....herb, beer, coffee or cigars....all of which the "effects" wear off after 1 nights sleep. TRT or any kind of steriod or muscle growth stimulant has effects that last longer than 24 hours. Ive known men who undergo TRT and magically 3 weeks later they go from benching 180 pounds to 250.

No matter how we slice this issue up, TRT/roids give anyone an unfair advantage.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Are Silva's 24 hours up?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> You just keep proving my point that Chael haters are extremely bias and that arguing about this wont get us anywhere. Iv wasted too much of my time arguing with people as is so im not going to do the same here and explain to you why you are wrong. Il just let you know you are and move on with my life. Hopefully you will have the strength to do the same.


Dude, honestly, if you are not interested in discussing the topic why are you even posting in this thread (that you started!). Smacky just made a very valid point that he supported with evidence and you just call him a hater and egg him on with the holier than thou "strength to move on" comment.

Not exactly productive forum discussion.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

mmaswe82 said:


> That is if you take Sonnens words for truth, why would anyone? you have said yourself many times that one shouldn't.
> 
> Edit: after reading Smackybears post, I would really love to hear you answer that Sideways. He presents alot of good facts as usual, I just feel that when the facts get too good, the Sonnen-fans run away. This wan't meant personally towards you Sideways, I just want you to answer it since you seem to be the defending Sonnen-fan in this thread.
> Seems to be the way this works, argue argue and then "oh shit facts" *poof* Sonnen-fans gone. Every time I present something that would be hard to explain for a fan of Sonnen, I never get an answer to it. Only for them to pop up and argue in the next realated thread using the same arguments, until someone again proves them wrong and so on and so on.


This whole thread iv been doing my best to not get sucked in to debate. If you think that people defending Sonnen run every time the going gets tough well that just isnt true. Everything he has presented has been discussed already. Only thing that will happen if i respond is its going to lure 5 more guys to comment about how much of an idiot i am. Thanks for being polite about wanting an answer but im not going to get sucked further in to this.





Ape City said:


> Dude, honestly, if you are not interested in discussing the topic why are you even posting in this thread (that you started!). Smacky just made a very valid point that he supported with evidence and you just call him a hater and egg him on with the holier than thou "strength to move on" comment.
> 
> Not exactly productive forum discussion.


Because historically speaking Sonnen-Silva arguments have been "Productive". Ok there buddy... keep sippin the gods nectar.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> This while thread iv been doing my best to not get sucked in to debate....Everything he has presented has been discussed already.


What are you trying to do then if you don't want to debate? It is pretty easy to present your side of the story and ignore everyone elses under the facade of "everything has been discussed".

So why did you start the thread? Why are you posting here if you don't want to debate? Is debating not the primary function of an MMA forum?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Ape City said:


> What are you trying to do then if you don't want to debate? It is pretty easy to present your side of the story and ignore everyone elses under the facade of "everything has been discussed".
> 
> So why did you start the thread? Why are you posting here if you don't want to debate? Is debating not the primary function of an MMA forum?


I started the thread because i wanted to post some piece of news for the other members to read. I dont see how your going to act like thats a bad thing. Debating is fine but the Silva-Sonnen debate has been played out and at this point just leads to people calling Sonnen fans stupid. I dont have to be a part of that just because you want me to. There are plenty of other discussions that i would be open to debating. And honestly i dont really have to explain myself to someone like you. If you have a problem with me go message one of the mods... other then that im not bugging you so i dont see why the hell your bugging me.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I am simply asking you to take the time to respond properly to the people that took the time to read your posts and respond. If you don't want to do that it's fine. I won't reply or "bug" you anymore.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Ape City said:


> I am simply asking you to take the time to respond properly to the people that took the time to read your posts and respond. If you don't want to do that it's fine. I won't reply or "bug" you anymore.


If what your asking me to do wouldn't in turn get me another 3 negs and another 5 people calling me names OR if i knew there is an end to it instead of the argument going on forever then i would gladly respond. So no offense but i dont like you enough to do what your asking me to do. 

Sounds good to me.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Freakshow said:


> As much as I would like to add to 10+ pages of cheater/nocheater debate, i'm actually going to ask a question related to the thread topic. Sonnen states his next offer won't be so nice. What does he actually think he can do? "If you don't accept this offer, I'll make another offer that you can completely ignore with no repercussions" Any speculation on what the next "offer" might be?


I dont think they care much for staying on topic. theyre much more interested in bickering about something which doesnt even matter at all, and trying to claim one-upsmanship.

And not one of them wants to back down, and all of them want the last word.

Funny.


Sonnen has no other "offer" - he wants to fight Silva and thats all he *can* offer.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Ya what exactly is Sonnen going to do if Silva doesn't accept the offer? 

In all honesty though Silva has to take this rematch. Sonnen beat him up for 4 rounds and the rematch needs to happen before he retires.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Ape City said:


> Ya what exactly is Sonnen going to do if Silva doesn't accept the offer?
> 
> In all honesty though Silva has to take this rematch. Sonnen beat him up for 4 rounds and the rematch needs to happen before he retires.


It can go one of two ways.

Silva can ham up the injury and therefore Sonnen would likely have to take a number 1 contender fight with someone else.

Or 

Silva will be approached by the UFC and he will accept the fight when it is presented to him by his employers, not a loud-mouth lunatic.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

The Lone Wolf said:


> It can go one of two ways.
> 
> Silva can ham up the injury and therefore Sonnen would likely have to take a number 1 contender fight with someone else.
> 
> ...


I don't really care if Sonnen is asked to fight someone else before he gets a rematch. I've always thought two fights was pretty standard before getting a rematch with the Champ. In this case, however, it is a bit different since we had never seen Silva take a beating like that before. So I have to wonder if the UFC is willing to risk losing a very marketable fight. I feel like this will and should get pushed out asap.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Ape City said:


> The reason people are responding to this in a negative way is that it sounds like you are trying to downplay the advantage TRT provides by saying "If Chael was buying steroids from some body builder and cheating by using them the effects of that would have been alot more then what TRT can produce".
> 
> How on earth would you know this?
> 
> ...



Took the words right out of my mouth.... 100% Chael is known for finding loopholes inside and outside of MMA when it comes to his "business" its sucks people got away with it for so long, and im glad State Athletic Commission is finally cracking down on it...

And for Anderson, this guy is acting mental... Saying HE is the champ to get a rise and to try to sell this fight by acting like a lunatic. When in actuality he would of been put to sleep if he didnt tap?? Now giving him 24 hours to accept a retarded offer? I wouldnt give him the respect to reply myself either....


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## MLD (Oct 15, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> Haha i love you Anderson fans soooooo much. You are incredibly passionate when it comes to Chael and his TRT BUT you could give a **** less if the TRT has anything to do with a different fighter.
> 
> You guys dont even care about the cause you guys care about insulting Chael. Thats the sole reason i cant take anything you guys take as anything more then some trash talk from some guy that knows he is behind a keyboard.
> 
> ...


You sure choose to argue a lot. I guess it helps you jack up your post numbers...

I've always been a Chael fan, since he was a Sportfight show host here in Portland. But I won't dismiss the bad things he's done. TRT, "I didn't tap" (when he fought Filho), Real estate crimes, outlandish trash talk, etc. Yes he has done all those things, and it has caused me to 2nd guess my appreciation for him. These days, I cling on to the hope that he will be the man to beat Anderson. If he wasn't the one to likely dethrone AS, then maybe I wouldn't like him anymore at all. I don't know. Regardless, I still root for him to win when I watch him fight.

So many MMA fighters have been caught cheating, or have exploited the loop holes. It is dissapointing for sure, but it seems like it unfortunately goes with the territory in pro sports. I'd like to see random testing on everyone in pro sports. Until then, I guess I'll have to accept it for what it is. Remember when Barnett got caught when we was ready to fight Fedor? Until they implement random testing to catch the guys cheating, it will always plague sports.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MLD said:


> You sure choose to argue a lot. I guess it helps you jack up your post numbers...
> 
> I've always been a Chael fan, since he was a Sportfight show host here in Portland. But I won't dismiss the bad things he's done. TRT, "I didn't tap" (when he fought Filho), Real estate crimes, outlandish trash talk, etc. Yes he has done all those things, and it has caused me to 2nd guess my appreciation for him. These days, I cling on to the hope that he will be the man to beat Anderson. If he wasn't the one to likely dethrone AS, then maybe I wouldn't like him anymore at all. I don't know. Regardless, I still root for him to win when I watch him fight.
> 
> So many MMA fighters have been caught cheating, or have exploited the loop holes. It is dissapointing for sure, but it seems like it unfortunately goes with the territory in pro sports. I'd like to see random testing on everyone in pro sports. Until then, I guess I'll have to accept it for what it is. Remember when Barnett got caught when we was ready to fight Fedor? Until they implement random testing to catch the guys cheating, it will always plague sports.



Lawl

I choose to argue alot even though iv been avoiding to argue pretty much this whole thread.
Especially since the post you quoted has no "argument" in it. AND THEN you make a post which is solely based on the premise of arguing.

You are funny.

People not making any sense is becoming the norm around these parts. Im not even sure how to react to it tbh.


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## MLD (Oct 15, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> Lawl
> 
> I choose to argue alot even though iv been avoiding to argue pretty much this whole thread.
> Especially since the post you quoted has no "argument" in it. AND THEN you make a post which is solely based on the premise of arguing.
> ...


I rest my case.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MLD said:


> I rest my case.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Know what really bugs me about Sonnen? It's not his failed drug test, not his shady real estate dealings, not his politics, not his fighting style.

It's his complete and utter lack of respect, due respect, for the man who is UFC middleweight champion of the world, the winner of 14 straight fights and one of the greatest fighters in the history of this sport. For the man who_ beat_ him. BEAT HIM. Made him quit. Made you tap. Made you tell the referee, "I'm done. I don't want to fight anymore."

It's not about being a "hater". It's about expecting a certain level of professionalism and sportsmanship from the people who compete in this sport at _our_ whim, who have _our_ hard-earned money in their pockets. It's about not seeing MMA turn into some stupid, phoney-baloney sideshow that combines the worst of boxing and pro wrestling and leaves all the best out.

Martial arts has long had a culture of respect. It's one of the things that attracted me to this sport, and other fans, too. Yet so many people think it's OK, even funny, to watch a guy like Chael Sonnen erode that culture of respect. I don't care if he's just kidding or just doing it for attention. It's ugly and it's shameful and, for me, it takes something away from every event he's associated with. Guy's super talented, a great fighter, but I can hardly stand watching him, can't stand hearing him talk. 

I don't want him on my TV screen or my computer screen or anything else. I'm so tired of his endless stream of bullshit. I don't want it. I don't understand anyone would want it.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

vandalian said:


> Know what really bugs me about Sonnen? It's not his failed drug test, not his shady real estate dealings, not his politics, not his fighting style.
> 
> It's his complete and utter lack of respect, due respect, for the man who is UFC middleweight champion of the world, the winner of 14 straight fights and one of the greatest fighters in the history of this sport. For the man who_ beat_ him. BEAT HIM. Made him quit. Made you tap. Made you tell the referee, "I'm done. I don't want to fight anymore."
> 
> ...


Great post.


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## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

Sekou said:


> I dunno man.....herb, beer, coffee or cigars....all of which the "effects" wear off after 1 nights sleep. TRT or any kind of steriod or muscle growth stimulant has effects that last longer than 24 hours. Ive known men who undergo TRT and magically 3 weeks later they go from benching 180 pounds to 250.
> 
> No matter how we slice this issue up, TRT/roids give anyone an unfair advantage.


Which is why I'm suggesting we just legalize its' usage. It's just like pot; we know people are doing it, it's illegal and people are being punished for partaking. Do we keep wasting time/effort/money policing it when we can simply allow it and place a reasonable restriction on it? People seem to be overlooking blood doping. It's considered illegal by most governing sports groups, but we see people admitting to simulated altitude training to increase RBC levels during pre-fight shows. It's an unfair advantage to people who aren't training at altitude/simulated altitude or jacking their RBC levels artificially, isn't it? The option is on the table to blood dope, some take it others don't. TRT shouldn't even be considered illegal with proper documentation. A certain level of PEDs should be allowed as well by fighter choice.


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## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

vandalian said:


> It's his complete and utter lack of respect, due respect, for the man who is UFC middleweight champion of the world, the winner of 14 straight fights and one of the greatest fighters in the history of this sport. ...
> 
> It's not about being a "hater". It's about expecting a certain level of professionalism and sportsmanship from the people who compete in this sport at _our_ whim, who have _our_ hard-earned money in their pockets. It's about not seeing MMA turn into some stupid, phoney-baloney sideshow that combines the worst of boxing and pro wrestling and leaves all the best out.
> 
> ...


1) Anderson Silva is a beacon of sportsmanship and respect, right? As a good sport with the ability to finish a fight you; a)finish the fight and thank your opponent for the opportunity. -or- b)drop your hands, monkey around the cage, and avoid the win as a means of humiliating an opponent. Oops... guess we forgot about the Champ, and the reason so many people are clamoring for him to lose. He's arrogant, he's cocky, he's disrespectful. Does defending your belt and ranking P4P greatest give you the right to humiliate your opponent? Nope. There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance and to suggest that Chael Sonnen has destroyed the respect and sportsmanship in the UFC Middleweight division is ridiculous.

2) Martial artists aren't here to perform on your whim. They aren't gladiators. You aren't forced into ordering a PPV event, you aren't required to watch it, no one reaches into your wallet and levies a UFC tax on your paycheck. In one part of your argument you argue that the respect and sportsmanship has evaporated, but you disrespect the martial artists who elect to entertain you (by choice) by likening them to gladiatorial chattel. UFC fighters are -required- to perform according to your whim because you spent $60 on a PPV card and $20 on a UFC hat, or $200 on a ticket? No. They willingly decide to participate just as you willingly decide to spend your money, neither of you are forced into your position.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Thales said:


> 1) Anderson Silva is a beacon of sportsmanship and respect, right? As a good sport with the ability to finish a fight you; a)finish the fight and thank your opponent for the opportunity. -or- b)drop your hands, monkey around the cage, and avoid the win as a means of humiliating an opponent. Oops... guess we forgot about the Champ, and the reason so many people are clamoring for him to lose. He's arrogant, he's cocky, he's disrespectful. Does defending your belt and ranking P4P greatest give you the right to humiliate your opponent? Nope. There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance and to suggest that Chael Sonnen has destroyed the respect and sportsmanship in the UFC Middleweight division is ridiculous.
> 
> 2) Martial artists aren't here to perform on your whim. They aren't gladiators. You aren't forced into ordering a PPV event, you aren't required to watch it, no one reaches into your wallet and levies a UFC tax on your paycheck. In one part of your argument you argue that the respect and sportsmanship has evaporated, but you disrespect the martial artists who elect to entertain you (by choice) by likening them to gladiatorial chattel. UFC fighters are -required- to perform according to your whim because you spent $60 on a PPV card and $20 on a UFC hat, or $200 on a ticket? No. They willingly decide to participate just as you willingly decide to spend your money, neither of you are forced into your position.


Maia humiliated himself. His showing in the fight was bordering on pathetic. Quite frankly, if I just put in a monstrous training camp to prepare myself for a dangerous opponent, coming to take my belt, and backed by plenty of claims that he'll submit me.... only to come up against an opponent so puny and useless? Well, everybody deals with things different. To be a champion who trains HARD and to always come up against pathetic and quite useless opposition is bound to turn ANYBODY a shade arrogant. To speculatively* compare his persona to any other "respectful" fighter is completely pointless. Let me see those "other" fighters crush their division for 5 years in spectacular fashion, whilst remaining humble and sweet. Domination like that does shit to a mans persona. Till any of us have reached these heights, we don't know shit about what its like to be the king.

* the wild speculation is most entertaining tho. Thats why we're here at the end of the day. I do more then my fair share!... so, carry on.


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Thales said:


> Which is why I'm suggesting we just legalize its' usage. It's just like pot; we know people are doing it, it's illegal and people are being punished for partaking.


Weed = Gain nothing.
TRT = Get your youth back, aka cheating.

Completely different things, and allowing any level of steroids in mma is the worst idea I could think of.



Thales said:


> Do we keep wasting time/effort/money policing it when we can simply allow it and place a reasonable restriction on it?


They should do the opposite and ban all use of TRT. There would be even more money spent on policing fighters levels to make sure people aren't going over. Whereas now they just have to test for any sign of steroids.


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Thales said:


> 1) Anderson Silva is a beacon of sportsmanship and respect, right? As a good sport with the ability to finish a fight you; a)finish the fight and thank your opponent for the opportunity. -or- b)drop your hands, monkey around the cage, and avoid the win as a means of humiliating an opponent. Oops... guess we forgot about the Champ, and the reason so many people are clamoring for him to lose. He's arrogant, he's cocky, he's disrespectful. Does defending your belt and ranking P4P greatest give you the right to humiliate your opponent? Nope. There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance and to suggest that Chael Sonnen has destroyed the respect and sportsmanship in the UFC Middleweight division is ridiculous.
> 
> 2) Martial artists aren't here to perform on your whim. They aren't gladiators. You aren't forced into ordering a PPV event, you aren't required to watch it, no one reaches into your wallet and levies a UFC tax on your paycheck. In one part of your argument you argue that the respect and sportsmanship has evaporated, but you disrespect the martial artists who elect to entertain you (by choice) by likening them to gladiatorial chattel. UFC fighters are -required- to perform according to your whim because you spent $60 on a PPV card and $20 on a UFC hat, or $200 on a ticket? No. They willingly decide to participate just as you willingly decide to spend your money, neither of you are forced into your position.


Putting a lot of words in my mouth there. 

1) Never said Anderson was a picture of perfect sportsmanship. He has acted a bit silly at times, to be sure, he has clowned around a bit, and I'm not a fan of those antics, either. But he has never done or said anything even approaching what Chael Sonnen has. It's not even in the ballpark. And if he does lose, can you even imagine him walking around calling himself the "real champion?" Of course not. Because he won't. I also can't imagine him saying anything mysoginistic, homophobic or racist about his opponents, their friends or families. Yet I can imagine Chael doing so. Why? Because he already has.

2) Never said that fighters were gladiators, either, or even compared them to gladiators. I have always hated that comparison. But the fact is their sport wouldn't exist if it weren't for you and I. Guys like Anderson Silva and Chael Sonnen wouldn't have the opportunities they do have, to fight on TV, to travel, to make the money they make, if you and I didn't love the sport they compete in and hadn't nurtured it and helped it grow by supporting it in good times and bad. They couldn't choose to fight, because the choice wouldn't exist. Same goes for the people who spend their money to support the industry I work in. If I didn't keep their expectations and opinions in mind, I wouldn't be working very long.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> Maia humiliated himself. His showing in the fight was bordering on pathetic. Quite frankly, if I just put in a monstrous training camp to prepare myself for a dangerous opponent, coming to take my belt, and backed by plenty of claims that he'll submit me.... only to come up against an opponent so puny and useless? Well, everybody deals with things different. To be a champion who trains HARD and to always come up against pathetic and quite useless opposition is bound to turn ANYBODY a shade arrogant. To speculatively* compare his persona to any other "respectful" fighter is completely pointless. Let me see those "other" fighters crush their division for 5 years in spectacular fashion, whilst remaining humble and sweet. Domination like that does shit to a mans persona.* Till any of us have reached these heights, we don't know shit about what its like to be the king.*
> 
> * the wild speculation is most entertaining tho. Thats why we're here at the end of the day. I do more then my fair share!... so, carry on.


Yeah, people talk but the fact is we'll probably (use of word probably just for creating some false hope) never climb that high. 
Good post/pov.


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## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

vandalian said:


> Putting a lot of words in my mouth there.
> 
> 1) Never said Anderson was a picture of perfect sportsmanship. He has acted a bit silly at times, to be sure, he has clowned around a bit, and I'm not a fan of those antics, either. But he has never done or said anything even approaching what Chael Sonnen has. It's not even in the ballpark. And if he does lose, can you even imagine him walking around calling himself the "real champion?" Of course not. Because he won't. I also can't imagine him saying anything mysoginistic, homophobic or racist about his opponents, their friends or families. Yet I can imagine Chael doing so. Why? Because he already has.


Ah, let's excuse Anderson Silva's behavior because, in your opinion, they aren't on the same caliber as Chael's? Pray tell, where are the racist and homophobic comments from Chael about fighter's friends and families?




vandalian said:


> 2) Never said that fighters were gladiators, either, or even compared them to gladiators. I have always hated that comparison. But the fact is their sport wouldn't exist if it weren't for you and I. Guys like Anderson Silva and Chael Sonnen wouldn't have the opportunities they do have, to fight on TV, to travel, to make the money they make, if you and I didn't love the sport they compete in and hadn't nurtured it and helped it grow by supporting it in good times and bad. They couldn't choose to fight, because the choice wouldn't exist. Same goes for the people who spend their money to support the industry I work in. If I didn't keep their expectations and opinions in mind, I wouldn't be working very long.


You never explicitly stated they were gladiators, but you claim they are here to perform for your "whim". No, sorry, they aren't. Gladiators are, slaves are, UFC fighters aren't. They don't owe you a thing. If they don't fight they don't earn a paycheck, they aren't required to fight just as you aren't required to do your job. Their job description is to exhibit their combat and martial prowess in a way that entertains the masses, not your whim.



box said:


> Weed = Gain nothing.
> TRT = Get your youth back, aka cheating.
> 
> Completely different things, and allowing any level of steroids in mma is the worst idea I could think of.


Weed = up to 5x more tar than tobacco.
TRT = treating a legitimate medical condition, aka prescribed by a doctor.




box said:


> They should do the opposite and ban all use of TRT. There would be even more money spent on policing fighters levels to make sure people aren't going over. Whereas now they just have to test for any sign of steroids.


Yes, they should do the opposite. If an athlete is suffering from a condition which has caused a dramatic drop in their testosterone levels they should either have to live with it and fight with a medical disadvantage, or address their medical condition and forget fighting. That sounds fair.



Soojooko said:


> Maia humiliated himself. His showing in the fight was bordering on pathetic. Quite frankly, if I just put in a monstrous training camp to prepare myself for a dangerous opponent, coming to take my belt, and backed by plenty of claims that he'll submit me.... only to come up against an opponent so puny and useless? Well, everybody deals with things different. To be a champion who trains HARD and to always come up against pathetic and quite useless opposition is bound to turn ANYBODY a shade arrogant. To speculatively* compare his persona to any other "respectful" fighter is completely pointless. Let me see those "other" fighters crush their division for 5 years in spectacular fashion, whilst remaining humble and sweet. Domination like that does shit to a mans persona. Till any of us have reached these heights, we don't know shit about what its like to be the king.
> 
> * the wild speculation is most entertaining tho. Thats why we're here at the end of the day. I do more then my fair share!... so, carry on.


Again, being the best does not entitle you to arrogance. We're condemning Chael's immorality and excusing Anderson Silva's immoral arrogance as acceptable because, after all, if you can beat someone you should also try to humiliate and mock them along the way. It's your right since you're the best.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Holy triple post Batman


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## iSHACKABUKU (Sep 11, 2007)

> Weed = up to 5x more tar than tobacco


and this matters because.......Of course tobacco is performance enhancing, thats what race cars drive on!!!


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Thales, you're clearly an intelligent guy, so stop pretending to be so clueless. You know I'm not excusing all of Anderson Silva's behavior. I made it clear, in this thread and in others, that I am a fan of sportsmanship. Hence my issues with Chael Sonnen.

I was also pretty clear about what I meant by saying fighters were there at our "whim." If you object to that specific word, then fine. Let's set it aside. Either way, once again, my meaning is clear. 

As far as Chael's comments, Google them yourself, if you like. They're out there for all to see.


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## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

iSHACKABUKU said:


> and this matters because.......Of course tobacco is performance enhancing, thats what race cars drive on!!!


What legitimate reason is there to ban therapeutic testosterone usage? I keep seeing crap about fairness, which I've addressed, and health reasons, also addressed. What does that leave?



vandalian said:


> Thales, you're clearly an intelligent guy, so stop pretending to be so clueless. You know I'm not excusing all of Anderson Silva's behavior. I made it clear, in this thread and in others, that I am a fan of sportsmanship. Hence my issues with Chael Sonnen.
> 
> I was also pretty clear about what I meant by saying fighters were there at our "whim." If you object to that specific word, then fine. Let's set it aside. Either way, once again, my meaning is clear.
> 
> As far as Chael's comments, Google them yourself, if you like. They're out there for all to see.


No, you are excusing Silva's behavior. You seem to think that Chael Sonnen's behavior represents the definition of bad sportsmanship and, because Silva's behavior is a different flavor, it isn't on the same level. It's in your replies.

Again, your meaning is clear as water. You spelled out your feelings concerning fighters; "It's about expecting a certain level of professionalism and sportsmanship from the people who compete in this sport at our whim, who have our hard-earned money in their pockets." Now that I've pinned you in with your own posts you're going to pretend that you didn't mean that, or I read into it incorrectly, or that I'm missing some subtle nuance that is so obvious that you're spelling it out now. Take whim out, what synonym would you replace it with? Restructure the sentence without "whim" and the meaning is still clear given the context; you don't like Chael Sonnen, you think you are owed something by these fighters, and you want Chael Sonnen out. You effectively reduced them to gladiators, whether or not you're willing to admit it you have. The only person who is playing at being clueless is you.

This is why debate, rhetoric, and logic are pointless these days. If you take the opposition's words at their meaning you're accused of missing nuance, if you take them on context you're making assumptions, if you look at the implications you don't understand the meaning. It's pointless.

We crucify someone because of the crimes they've been duly punished for, and it isn't enough. We hate them for their brand of brash, self-promotion and label it as dishonorable. All the while we look the other way when those same crimes are being committed, when similarly dishonorable acts are being perpetrated, because we like to paint someone as a villain. Pathetic.

This isn't a debate, this is a blatant refusal by certain individuals to even entertain being wrong. It can't be spelled out any more clearly, it can't be made any simpler. It can be reduced to a stubborn refusal to budge even when confronted with logical refutation of your own words.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Silva clowning around and being immature at times isn't a big deal to me, he's a good guy. 

Chael is a pathological liar suffering from psychosis. **** him.


As far as the whole marijuana vs tobacco thing.

1: They literally add tar and other chemicals to commercial cigarettes to make them more addictive.

2: Most weed smokers only smoke on occasion, even heavier smoker will generally do 1 to 2 joints per day, while the cig smoker smokes a pack or maybe even two. The 4-1 doesn't mean shit then.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Thales said:


> Weed = up to 5x more tar than tobacco.
> TRT = treating a legitimate medical condition, aka prescribed by a doctor.


Ok? What in the world does Tobacco have to do with this topic? You said legalizing weed is the same as TRT. TRT helps you cheat your strength back, weed is a recreational herb that is comparable to eating a cheeseburger as far as performance enhancing goes. 

People having to use drugs to stay fit, can also be known as cheating. TRT for a normal dude is fine, he's not competing against other guys who train naturally.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

wheres guy incognito I need his lovely bill o reily gif


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

lol...its funny how human psychology works


People will hold on to foolish ideas, even in light of the facts right in front of them (Obama born in Kenya? :laugh


Chael Patrick Sonnen had 4 times the amount of normal testosterone in his system....and he used a tricky loophole to justify it: "Oh my testicles and DHT levels are outta whack... so Ill take a little bit more and use 'medical issue' as an excuse, they wont notice "


If this was baseball, football, rugby, basketball or soccer....Chael Sonnen would be a pariah


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Thales said:


> What legitimate reason is there to ban therapeutic testosterone usage? I keep seeing crap about fairness, which I've addressed, and health reasons, also addressed. What does that leave?
> 
> 
> No, you are excusing Silva's behavior. You seem to think that Chael Sonnen's behavior represents the definition of bad sportsmanship and, because Silva's behavior is a different flavor, it isn't on the same level. It's in your replies.
> ...


You know, for someone who has such a strong command of the language, you really need to have shit spelled out for you. Fine. Here you go.

Chael Sonnen's disrespectful bullshit turns me off. It makes me sick. It makes me not want to see him, not want to support him. It makes me not want to see him fight, and that's too bad, because he's one hell of a fighter. 

As a fan, I want better. I want it for myself, sure, I admit that, but I also want it for other fans and for a sport that's still trying to make its way, still trying to prove it's not a bush league for psychos and cementheads.

I also want better from Anderson Silva. Damn straight. But do I feel what Chael pulls is worse? Damn right I do.

Is that easier to understand? 

Don't give me this shit about lack of civilized debate. You were the one who went after me because you didn't like my post. You called me pathetic, stubborn, you tried to label me a hypocrite, you accused me of having a sense of entitlement. You resorted to name-calling and nitpicking.

You say I refuse to be wrong, yet all you have done in this thread is try to prove people wrong. So who's the goddamn hypocrite?


----------



## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

box said:


> Ok? What in the world does Tobacco have to do with this topic? You said legalizing weed is the same as TRT. TRT helps you cheat your strength back, weed is a recreational herb that is comparable to eating a cheeseburger as far as performance enhancing goes.
> 
> People having to use drugs to stay fit, can also be known as cheating. TRT for a normal dude is fine, he's not competing against other guys who train naturally.


Tobacco contains ~3% of the stimulant nicotine. Stimulants are a banned substance according to CSAC, on the same list as anabolic agents. That is the relevancy. If you go back a bit you'll notice that I was making light of how ridiculous the CSAC's list of prohibited substances is. Then someone made a point that marijuana is harmless by comparison to TRT, at which point I countered that marijuana contains ~4x more tar than cigarettes, and we can all agree cigarettes are unhealthy. Furthermore, I can speak from experience that people who smoke weed tend to hold the smoke in their lungs longer than cigarette smoke in an effort to increase their high. Increasing the amount of tar your lungs can accumulate.




vandalian said:


> You know, for someone who has such a strong command of the language, you really need to have shit spelled out for you. Fine. Here you go.
> 
> Chael Sonnen's disrespectful bullshit turns me off. It makes me sick. It makes me not want to see him, not want to support him. It makes me not want to see him fight, and that's too bad, because he's one hell of a fighter.


Then don't watch him. Take the good with the bad or move on. I'm not a fan of Anderson Silva's arrogance, but he's a brilliant fighter. I'm willing to endure his disrespectful, haughty nature because I realize people are imperfect. Chael Sonnen is no more a villain than Anderson Silva. People suffer from character flaws, people make mistakes, which is why punishment is levied against them. At what point are people able to square that in their head; "He made a mistake, he took his punishment." And if it isn't some boorish obsession with his past it's that his method of self-aggrandizing, outrageous promoting is robbing the UFC of a shot at mainstream legitimacy. It isn't. If anything it appeals to more people.



vandalian said:


> As a fan, I want better. I want it for myself, sure, I admit that, but I also want it for other fans and for a sport that's still trying to make its way, still trying to prove it's not a bush league for psychos and cementheads.
> 
> I also want better from Anderson Silva. Damn straight. But do I feel what Chael pulls is worse? Damn right I do.
> 
> Is that easier to understand?


Oh, I understood you just fine. Like I said before; you think Chael Sonnen's character flaws are worse than Anderson Silva's. You have made it clear that you are excusing Silva's behavior because it is comparatively minor. Don't spin your opinion as noble. If this was about the selfless enrichment of MMA/the UFC why are you discarding Silva's antics as acceptable? Because you are excusing his behavior by comparison. It's fairly obvious.




vandalian said:


> Don't give me this shit about lack of civilized debate. You were the one who went after me because you didn't like my post. You called me pathetic, stubborn, you tried to label me a hypocrite, you accused me of having a sense of entitlement. You resorted to name-calling and nitpicking.
> 
> You say I refuse to be wrong, yet all you have done in this thread is try to prove people wrong. So who's the goddamn hypocrite?


I disagreed with you, as is common in a discourse of differing opinions. Take it as me honing in on you if you'd like. I challenge you to go back into our back-and-forth and quote me name-calling. Pointing out the hypocrisy of a contradictory statement does not constitute a personal insult. As for nit-picking? I expect you to stand by what you said. You likened UFC fighters to gladiators when you declared they were subject to your whim, then backtracked as though there was any other way it could be construed. If I take your posts as they are written, which I have, it's black and white.

Why haven't I admitted I'm wrong? When have you suddenly thrust some glaring contradiction or moral double standard forward to refute a point? Why would I admit I was wrong when I'm arguing in favor of very sane, logical ideas that you seem biased against seeing? You don't seem to understand how a discussion or debate work. We have differing opinions, we discuss. If you are guilty of a logical fallacy, contradiction, or are proven wrong with a logical/factual point it is included in the discussion. You've been guilty of a logical fallacy, you've contradicted yourself, and I've presented a factual point(s). You've backtracked and refused to admit you wrote what you wrote, dismissing it as wrongly interpreted. Now you've taken to introducing anger and cursing into a discussion, congratulations.


----------



## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

.....


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Post much, say little.


----------



## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

Thales said:


> Essentially CSAC is telling boxers they can't smoke, drink coffee, drink beer, take their asthma medicine, toke a little weed, or drink soda before a fight. Note it doesn't say directly before a fight, it just says before a fight. Partaking of any of those substances is egregious enough to warrant a license revocation. Way to go California!


I concur that they should have codified which substances can be used recreationally, but couldn't be used during a fight. By regulations, they're all equal, though in practice they aren't. For instance, the CSAC still licences Nick Diaz (who they know has a prescription for, and admittedly uses, medical marijuana) but they tell him he has to test clean for it in the pre/post-fight urinalysis. I'm not sure how long he has to abstain to piss clean by fight time, though.



> I would also bet that they have partaken of corticosteroids as prescribed by a doctor after an injury or surgery. They would be in violation of CSAC regulations.


Perhaps, but not necessarily. The CSAC (and pretty much every athletic commission, USADA, and WADA) allows therapeutic use exemptions (TUEs) for athletes who report them in a timely manner. A prescription isn't necessarily an automatic pass, however.



> Can someone explain to me why someone's personal choice to supplement with caffeine to cut weight prior to a fight, or smoke a fatty with friends, should be grounds for having their license revoked? I'm sure there'll be the usual countering of "It's not fair to those people who don't". Legalize substances with regulation and let the athletes decide. I sure as hell don't care if Anderson Silva smears his shoulder with a topical corticosteroid to reduce inflammation, or if Urijah Faber likes to put a litle "kush up in it" to mellow out after a long day. I also don't care if Brock Lesnar is juicing as long as anyone who wants to juice, and is aware of potential risks, can as well.


I'm not sure why recreational use of marijuana or alcohol matters, provided the competitor doesn't come to the bout in an altered state.



> For those of you who are keen to question whether or not Chael Sonnen is still using TRT, please note he had to submit a urine specimen before his license was un-suspended.


That's not true.



> A person who applies for or holds a license as a professional boxer and who has at any time had a positive drug test confirmed by any commission for any substance described in subsection (c) shall be required as a condition of licensure or renewal to provide a urine specimen.


I assume you're referencing that, correct? But after Sonnen tested positive, he never had his CSAC license renewed. A suspension elapsing is neither a licensing nor a renewal, so he didn't provide one when his first suspension ended. His license expired while his suspension for making false statements and money laundering was still in effect. He hasn't applied for a license from the CSAC since the expiration of his previous license.



Thales said:


> Pray tell, where are the racist and homophobic comments from Chael about fighter's friends and families?


I was trying to stay out of this particular side conversation, but it's possible he may have been referring to these:



> Ed, pray to whatever Demon effigy you prance and dance in front of with your piglet tribe of savages that I decide not to CRUCIFY you.


screencap of his tweet

Ed is Ed Soares, Silva's manager.



> You're lucky your brother Joe's the matchmaker or you'd be sellin' barbecued monkey on the street in Manaus.


Link.

That insult was actually directed at Anderson Silva, but maybe he has friends in Manaus/Amazonas he feels Sonnen insulted, and Vandalian included opponents in his comment.



> Even if I could get a submission, I'm not laying under a grown man with my legs spread on worldwide TV. There are some guys who subscribe to that theory, but I'm a Republican. We don't do that.


The youtube link is broken, but you may recognize that one.

Others:



> Machida is a gentleman. MMA is very cutthroat, and it's sweet that Lyoto promised to never fight his girlfriend Anderson. That's devotion.





> On the streets of West Linn, Oregon, if you lay on your back with your legs wrapped around a man’s head for eight seconds, that does not make you a winner. That makes ... not a winner.





> Listen Wanderlei, I will do a home invasion on you. I will cut the power to your house. The next thing you'll hear is me climbing up your stairs in a pair of night vision goggles I bought in the back of a soldier fortune magazine. I'll pick the lock to the master door *Chh-chh* take a picture of you in bed with the Nogueira brothers, working on your 'Jiu-Jitsu.' I'll take said photo and post it to www-dot-dorksfrombrazil-dot-com. Password not required. Username not required. That Wanderlei is how you threaten somebody. Dummy.


I'd say there's a lot of homophobic things about friends of Anderson's generally since they do BJJ and some of his friends by name.

I'm also assuming Vandalian is using racist in the broader sense shared by many that includes ethnicity.


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Thales, I never told you to admit when you're wrong, nor even suggested it.

I pointed out your complaint that "certain individuals" can't admit they're wrong, your idea that this is all about debate, all about discussion, that it shouldn't be personal, yet you appear obsessed with being right, even to the point of insulting those you claim to be debating, calling them pathetic, accusing them of hypocrisy. And yes, that is what you accuse them of when you claim they're "excusing" Anderson Silva's behavior, which, once again, I did not, nor ever have I. It was you who brought Anderson's demeanor and behavior into this conversation, as if by criticizing Chael Sonnen I was somehow handing Anderson Silva a free pass.

The backtracking you speak of doesn't exist. I have not changed my opinion, only tried to keep out what you tried to add to it.

If there's one thing I _did _ do wrong in my original post, it was using that word "whim" which has led you to assume so much about me and my character. Perhaps "pleasure" would have been more apt, if my intention was to avoid sounding like my interest in MMA is purely the product of impulse or sudden, arbitrary desire. That isn't the case. In any case, it's much easier to see my meaning, taking my post as a whole, than you so stubbornly insist. In any case, it's true that fighters in the UFC have the dollars of fans like you and I in their pockets. That's a fact. Of course I don't consider them my personal gladiatorial slaves. If I meant that, I would have said it, and would have been justly ridiculed for saying it.

But as an MMA fan, I do have certain expectations of MMA fighters, much as you, clearly, do yourself. And one of the expectations I have is that they conduct themselves like professionals, that they show some reverence for the sport's culture of respect and give respect when it's due. Chael Sonnen refuses to do those things. That's what I don't like about him and that's what I chose to post about. To respond to that with "then don't watch him" or to "take the good with the bad and move on" is pointless. I move on every day. But once in a while, I choose to post something that's on my mind in this forum. That's what it's for.

There is no "boorish obsession" with Chael's past. I wouldn't care nearly as much about Chael's past comments if he wasn't still defending them and still saying much the same.

Edit: Nice finds, SmackyBear. And let's not forget this little gem:



> You tell Anderson Silva I'm coming over and I'm kicking down his backdoor and patting his little lady on the ass and I'm telling her to make me a steak, medium-rare just how I like it."


http://www.middleeasy.com/index.php...er-to-make-him-a-steak&catid=34:organizations


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Not only is it not true, but Chael still doesn't have a license to fight anywhere other than the joke that is the TSAC. There is a reason they are talking about Silva-Sonnen II in Cowboy Stadium. 

The UFC is playing a dangerous game by commission dodging, but unlike Sf and the Barnett situation where he could only fight in 
Texas, the UFC is always traveling to Canada and abroad to England and even Australia to basically dodge any real commission suspension/ban for the rest of his career.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Thales said:


> Again, being the best does not entitle you to arrogance. We're condemning Chael's immorality and excusing Anderson Silva's immoral arrogance as acceptable because, after all, if you can beat someone you should also try to humiliate and mock them along the way. It's your right since you're the best.


I didnt say it entitles you to arrogance. Read my post again. I said it makes arrogance understandable. If you cant understand, then I cant really argue with that. For me, human nature is a wonderous thing. People tend to complain about other peoples behaviour even though they have no clue or context. None of us know wht its like to put in these gruelling training camps over and over, expecting to fight godzilla, only to come across the equivalent of a pathetic 7 year old who you could have defeated with half the training camp you put in. Year after year after year. If that was you, can you say with all confidence that you wouldn't be a shade arrogant? If you answer yes, then I don't believe you.

Sonnen on the other hand has done f*uck all to make his arrogance understandable. The difference between them in terms achievement is night and day. Sonnens arrogance stems from well thought out offensive and sensationalist rubbish that he spouts at every opportunity. I'm 100% sure Silva doesn't sit at home concocting his next sensationalist comment in front of the mirror. With Silva, it all comes out in the moment. Sonnen contrives his shit. Thats the difference.

To be clear, I love Sonnen and his crazy shit. It makes me laugh. But, I'm not blind and im not an idiot. I know what hes up to. I can still enjoy his ramblings with a fat pinch of salt.


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

So I wonder what Sonnen's next "offer" is going to be. A last man standing match? A tables, ladders and chairs?


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

lot of love in this thread:hug:


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

oldfan said:


> lot of love in this thread:hug:









.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

oldfan said:


> lot of love in this thread:hug:


Whats funny is a dude claiming macho-ness for his increased Testosterone levels... when the reality is his levels are puny and he needs therapy to get them back up again. Then compares that to another dude, whos testosterone levels are naturally normal. ( A dude who made you quit by simply wrapping his legs around your head for a few seconds, you big pansy ) Guess which one has the smaller testicles? Guess which one gets more ladies? Simple facts are, Chael you god damn entertaining lunatic troll, that a dude in a pink T-shirt and ear-rings is more manly then you are.

Man, I wish Sonnen was my buddy. I could see us having a lot of fun over a beer or two. Ive said it before and I'll say it again... why wont anybody engage him in the banter? Why wont Silva or Soares or any of the other seriously boring Brazilians come back at him with some nice retorts. I certainly would. Sonnen would welcome it I'm sure. Instead, he keeps on prodding and poking and all he gets back are clichéd soundbites talking about respect and honour. ZZZzzzz.

I would love nothing more then to here Silva make gross comments about Sonnens mother or grandma. But it'll never happen.


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## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

I can see this is going no where. I could beat each and every one of you over the head with the truth, point out the inconsistency and inconstancy of your posts, the backtracking, the evasion of logic. Obviously the large majority of you have a very basic education when it comes to debate and discussion, and shaky reading comprehension. I guess it's my own fault for fooling myself into thinking this forum exists outside the realm of the misinformed status quo. A few of you have made fine refutations concerning specific details of Chael's suspension, otherwise it's largely been a showing of denial and ignorance. I've put on my kid gloves, even abstained from ripping apart the stupidity in several posts, ignored the personal attacks and childish "negging" for differing opinion. Live in your vacuum of dark, blissful ignorance.

-fin


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Thales said:


> I can see this is going no where. I could beat each and every one of you over the head with the truth, point out the inconsistency and inconstancy of your posts, the backtracking, the evasion of logic. Obviously the large majority of you have a very basic education when it comes to debate and discussion, and shaky reading comprehension. I guess it's my own fault for fooling myself into thinking this forum exists outside the realm of the misinformed status quo. A few of you have made fine refutations concerning specific details of Chael's suspension, otherwise it's largely been a showing of denial and ignorance. I've put on my kid gloves, even abstained from ripping apart the stupidity in several posts, ignored the personal attacks and childish "negging" for differing opinion. Live in your vacuum of dark, blissful ignorance.
> 
> -fin


:laugh:

I enjoyed that, but dude, lighten up a touch. This is a Chael Sonnen thread. This is always how it rolls.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Has 24 hours passed yet?


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## samhain (Jan 8, 2007)

Thales said:


> I can see this is going no where. I could beat each and every one of you over the head with the truth, point out the inconsistency and inconstancy of your posts, the backtracking, the evasion of logic. Obviously the large majority of you have a very basic education when it comes to debate and discussion, and shaky reading comprehension. I guess it's my own fault for fooling myself into thinking this forum exists outside the realm of the misinformed status quo. A few of you have made fine refutations concerning specific details of Chael's suspension, otherwise it's largely been a showing of denial and ignorance. I've put on my kid gloves, even abstained from ripping apart the stupidity in several posts, ignored the personal attacks and childish "negging" for differing opinion. Live in your vacuum of dark, blissful ignorance.
> 
> -fin


Thales, you appear to be intelligent and have excellent writing skills. However, going through your posts in this thread, I can't figure exactly what "truth" you are trying to put forth. I see other posters responding in a respectful manner yet you decide to finish off with this elitist romp basically portraying everyone else in this thread as ignorant rubes incapable of debating with someone as learned and enlightened as yourself.

I hope you stick around because I think you have something to offer but seriously, take it easy. This is a Mixed Martial Arts discussion forum on the internet. People from all walks of life, many with only "a very basic education when it comes to debate and discussion," come here to learn and chat with others with a similar interest.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Thales said:


> I can see this is going no where. I could beat each and every one of you over the head with the truth, point out the inconsistency and inconstancy of your posts, the backtracking, the evasion of logic. Obviously the large majority of you have a very basic education when it comes to debate and discussion, and shaky reading comprehension. I guess it's my own fault for fooling myself into thinking this forum exists outside the realm of the misinformed status quo. A few of you have made fine refutations concerning specific details of Chael's suspension, otherwise it's largely been a showing of denial and ignorance. I've put on my kid gloves, even abstained from ripping apart the stupidity in several posts, ignored the personal attacks and childish "negging" for differing opinion. Live in your vacuum of dark, blissful ignorance.
> 
> -fin


Holy Megalomania Batman! 





Just wanted to join the Holy ... Batman, boat!

:thumb02:


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

Thales said:


> I can see this is going no where. I could beat each and every one of you over the head with the truth, point out the inconsistency and inconstancy of your posts, the backtracking, the evasion of logic. Obviously the large majority of you have a very basic education when it comes to debate and discussion, and shaky reading comprehension. I guess it's my own fault for fooling myself into thinking this forum exists outside the realm of the misinformed status quo. A few of you have made fine refutations concerning specific details of Chael's suspension, otherwise it's largely been a showing of denial and ignorance. I've put on my kid gloves, even abstained from ripping apart the stupidity in several posts, ignored the personal attacks and childish "negging" for differing opinion. Live in your vacuum of dark, blissful ignorance.
> 
> -fin


I would really like to see you reply to Smackybears latest post where he quotes you.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Thales said:


> I can see this is going no where. I could beat each and every one of you over the head with the truth, point out the inconsistency and inconstancy of your posts, the backtracking, the evasion of logic. Obviously the large majority of you have a very basic education when it comes to debate and discussion, and shaky reading comprehension. I guess it's my own fault for fooling myself into thinking this forum exists outside the realm of the misinformed status quo. A few of you have made fine refutations concerning specific details of Chael's suspension, otherwise it's largely been a showing of denial and ignorance. I've put on my kid gloves, even abstained from ripping apart the stupidity in several posts, ignored the personal attacks and childish "negging" for differing opinion. Live in your vacuum of dark, blissful ignorance.
> 
> -fin


I feel your pain my friend. I remember the shock and surprise I felt when I first realized that these fools could actually see my words of genius and yet still cling to their own independent, flawed opinions.

I mean.... CAN'T THEY READ??:dunno::confused02:


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Well, thanks for going easy on us.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Thales said:


> I can see this is going no where. I could beat each and every one of you over the head with the truth, point out the inconsistency and inconstancy of your posts, the backtracking, the evasion of logic. Obviously the large majority of you have a very basic education when it comes to debate and discussion, and shaky reading comprehension. I guess it's my own fault for fooling myself into thinking this forum exists outside the realm of the misinformed status quo. A few of you have made fine refutations concerning specific details of Chael's suspension, otherwise it's largely been a showing of denial and ignorance. I've put on my kid gloves, even abstained from ripping apart the stupidity in several posts, ignored the personal attacks and childish "negging" for differing opinion. Live in your vacuum of dark, blissful ignorance.
> 
> -fin


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm thrilled that the MMAF regulars alienated and scared away another newer member who actually had an education in the topics we need clarifying the most.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> I'm thrilled that the MMAF regulars alienated and scared away another newer member who actually had an education in the topics we need clarifying the most.


please, that conceited douche had less knowledge and more smugness than ... well Chael Sonnen.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Personally i think you were all looking for your own TRT in here.

Poster 1: "*ROOAAAARR!!!*"
Poster 2: "*RROOOAAAAARRR!!!*"
Poster 1: *stands a little taller* "*RROOOOAAAAAARRRRRRRR!!!*"
Poster 2: *also stands tall* "*RRROOOOOAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR!!!*"
Poster 3: *beats chest* "*RRRRRROOOOOOOAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRR!!!*"
Everybody: "*RRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRR!!!*"

:bored04:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I don't think I've seen a member with such few posts buy a lifetime membership on here.

Fishy.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> I don't think I've seen a member with such few posts buy a lifetime membership on here.
> 
> Fishy.


me... I only had like 15 posts when I bought. :thumb02:


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> I'm thrilled that the MMAF regulars alienated and scared away another newer member who actually had an education in the topics we need clarifying the most.


I agree that dude had some good knowledge can't ya'll just be friends.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

SmackyBear said:


> I concur that they should have codified which substances can be used recreationally, but couldn't be used during a fight. By regulations, they're all equal, though in practice they aren't. For instance, the CSAC still licences Nick Diaz (who they know has a prescription for, and admittedly uses, medical marijuana) but they tell him he has to test clean for it in the pre/post-fight urinalysis. I'm not sure how long he has to abstain to piss clean by fight time, though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thales did not like being dismantled apprently.



Thales said:


> I can see this is going no where. I could beat each and every one of you over the head with the truth, point out the inconsistency and inconstancy of your posts, the backtracking, the evasion of logic. Obviously the large majority of you have a very basic education when it comes to debate and discussion, and shaky reading comprehension. I guess it's my own fault for fooling myself into thinking this forum exists outside the realm of the misinformed status quo. A few of you have made fine refutations concerning specific details of Chael's suspension, otherwise it's largely been a showing of denial and ignorance. I've put on my kid gloves, even abstained from ripping apart the stupidity in several posts, ignored the personal attacks and childish "negging" for differing opinion. Live in your vacuum of dark, blissful ignorance.
> 
> -fin


In other words, Thales stomps his feet and walks away.



He made a few good points but holy shit be less pompous and elitist and maybe reply to the one guy who picked his shit apart. Damn.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

My issue had nothing to do with how knowledgeable anyone was or wasn't. It had to do with their insulting language and tone and their insistence at putting words into other posters' mouths, followed by complaints over a lack of civilized debate in the forum.

Sorry to everyone if I got a little too worked up about it. I guess I come on a little strong sometimes.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

rygu said:


> Thales did not like being dismantled apprently.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Holy shit this is still going on?

I never even got to reply to him saying my photo taken by someone else of my after a mud run was the same thing as taking a photo of yourself after a workout in a mirror like a 13 year old from myspace. It's still gay... no matter how long his reply's are.


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## Freakshow (Aug 10, 2011)

well the 24 hours have been up for a bit. Any word on what the new "deal"?


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

The deal not happening now since its been well over the time frame he said


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## Freakshow (Aug 10, 2011)

I know that one isn't happening, but he said "My next one won't be so nice". Was wondering if there actually was a next one.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

What could it possibly be? "I challenge you to a knife fight!"?


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## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Holy shit this is still going on?
> 
> I never even got to reply to him saying my photo taken by someone else of my after a mud run was the same thing as taking a photo of yourself after a workout in a mirror like a 13 year old from myspace. It's still gay... no matter how long his reply's are.


Still hanging on my nuts, huh? Someone took a picture of you with your sister on a mud run, so your first thought was; "Man, I'd better go slap a pic of pasty, scrawny self up online so everyone can see how scrawny and out of shape I am..."? Someone's ragin' because they have the body of a 13 year old girl.

Oh, and I wasn't scared away. I just put several people on ignore. There are a few intelligent folks on this forum that I enjoy interacting with, and legitimate advice that I can provide under the Nutrition and Training sections so I'm just going to enjoy myself. Man, I have never seen so many supposedly straight men obsessed with my picture (lots of rep comments). Keep hating, it only feeds me and makes me stronger. As for the arrogance? It's hard not to be arrogant given the uneducated, weak, and catty response I've gotten. Oh, and the statistically provable fact that I'm smarter than my haters.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

You did say legalizing weed a trt were the same thing. That's grounds for questioning your "i'm smarter than my haters" fact.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Thales said:


> Still hanging on my nuts, huh? Someone took a picture of you with your sister on a mud run, so your first thought was; "Man, I'd better go slap a pic of pasty, scrawny self up online so everyone can see how scrawny and out of shape I am..."? Someone's ragin' because they have the body of a 13 year old girl.


You mad bra?



> Oh, and I wasn't scared away. I just put several people on ignore. There are a few intelligent folks on this forum that I enjoy interacting with, and legitimate advice that I can provide under the Nutrition and Training sections so I'm just going to enjoy myself. Man, I have never seen so many supposedly straight men obsessed with my picture (lots of rep comments). Keep hating, it only feeds me and makes me stronger. As for the arrogance? It's hard not to be arrogant given the uneducated, weak, and catty response I've gotten. Oh, and the statistically provable fact that I'm smarter than my haters.


Statistically proven fact? LMAO. I've probably had higher education out of high school than you did your whole life. The need to attempt to display such high intelligence behind a keyboard to a bunch of strangers says it all. Then not being able to take the slightest bit of criticism without blowing up like a teenage girl who just got her phone taken away. You got torn to shreds and ran away crying. But whatever you gotta tell yourself to sleep better at night.

The picture is still incredibly gay dude.


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## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

box said:


> You did say legalizing weed a trt were the same thing. That's grounds for questioning your "i'm smarter than my haters" fact.


No I didn't, but thanks for proving my point about reading comprehension. I said "like", as in similar. And similar in that weed is illegal but we know people partake, and TRT is illegal and we know people partake. As I said in that post.



PheelGoodInc said:


> You mad bra?


Mad that a 130lb. manlet is jealous/crushing on my picture? Not really. Flattered, yes. A little disturbed, definitely. Certainly not mad.




PheelGoodInc said:


> Statistically proven fact? LMAO. I've probably had higher education out of high school than you did your whole life. The need to attempt to display such high intelligence behind a keyboard to a bunch of strangers says it all. Then not being able to take the slightest bit of criticism without blowing up like a teenage girl who just got her phone taken away. You got torn to shreds and ran away crying. But whatever you gotta tell yourself to sleep better at night.
> 
> The picture is still incredibly gay dude.


My -whole life-? Last time I checked I'm still alive, so referring to my -whole life- past tense doesn't give much credibility to your high school education. Statistically proven fact in that 1/184,606 people have an intelligence quotient the same or higher than mine according to the Stanford-Binet scale. Given that there are ~55k people on this forum the odds aren't in your favor.

Apparently you're the expert on what is and isn't gay, since you're bringing it up on practically every page of this topic.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Thales said:


> No I didn't, but thanks for proving my point about reading comprehension. I said "like", as in similar. And similar in that weed is illegal but we know people partake, and TRT is illegal and we know people partake. As I said in that post.


Like and same are so damn close. I'm not gonna nitpick, i'll move on.


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## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

box said:


> Like and same are so damn close. I'm not gonna nitpick, i'll move on.


Not really...

Like:
in like manner with; similarly to; in the manner characteristic of;resembling.

Same:
identical with what is about to be or has just been mentioned; being one or identical though having different names, aspects, etc.


Notice similar vs. identical. You can nitpick if you'd like but it'll continue to lend weight to my argument that you have poor reading comprehension. This is the second time I've had to break something down for you "What does tobacco have to do with TRT?!" when it was staring you right in the face.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

you want me to implode like a a -bomb don't you?


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

unsubscribed


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

/thread.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

lol @ Thales neg repping me because I thought his early lifetime membership was a bit suspect. 

Some one is mad.


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## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

Mckeever said:


> lol @ Thales neg repping me because I thought his early lifetime membership was a bit suspect.
> 
> Some one is mad.


[email protected] getting neg repped and raging all the way over to the thread, thinking I'm mad.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Thales said:


> Mad that a 130lb. manlet is jealous/crushing on my picture? Not really. Flattered, yes. A little disturbed, definitely. Certainly not mad.


LOL. You obviously are. The second someone makes fun of your obviously gay photo you respond in an instance. Yet when someone tears you apart you claim to leave the thread... only to respond to anyone else that mentions your name. Obviously you're mad bra. It's cool. Just admit it.

FYI I haven't been 130 pounds since Jr High. Whatever you gotta tell yourself to feel better 



> My -whole life-? Last time I checked I'm still alive, so referring to my -whole life- past tense doesn't give much credibility to your high school education. Statistically proven fact in that 1/184,606 people have an intelligence quotient the same or higher than mine according to the Stanford-Binet scale. Given that there are ~55k people on this forum the odds aren't in your favor.


Ah there you go again with your claims and elitist attitude. This is the internet dude. You can try to sound as smart and as tough as you want. The fact is if you were half of what you claim to be you wouldn't be arguing with guys on an internet forum. You definitely wouldn't be getting this worked up on an internet forum. You damn sure wouldn't run away the first time someone tore your argument to shreds. You plain and simple are full of shit. Everyone sees it. But you think if you keep quoting people and talking a lot while using correct grammar someone will buy your bullshit. People don't. Sorry bro.



> Apparently you're the expert on what is and isn't gay, since you're bringing it up on practically every page of this topic.


No. Just with your gay avatar. Feel free to search though my posts. You were quick to search my profile which means you're obviously mad. When the majority of people agree that your avatar is gay, it's usually not the majority that's wrong; it's you. Think about that. Then make another excuse to yourself so that you can feel better about staring at gayness in every post you make.



Thales said:


> [email protected] getting neg repped and raging all the way over to the thread, thinking I'm mad.


Yet you are so fast to respond to neg reps. LOL. If only you were as fast to respond to posts that ripped you apart and dropped the elitist attitude people might have some respect for you. Unfortunately until you figure that out you will not fit in here. Except for a few of the other trolls who are well known and their opinions don't mean much. Good luck dude.

Honestly I love new gold members. Sometimes they have a lot to ******* learn though.

You can talk as much as you want about the benefits of steroids. I agree with most of it. If you weren't so fast to jump all over my posts you would have realized this. I just want an equal playing field for all athletes... steroids or not. But my opinion on the subject doesn't really matter as you find more joy in debating semantics with me than actual points.

The fact is when someone like yourself who obviously works out a lot and feels so strongly about something related to working out; it's a damn safe assumption that you yourself are on steroids. You claim you're not, yet the only topics you are interested in on a form you *paid* to be on are steroids and weight lifting. Claim all you want. 2 + 2 = 4 and this isn't the court of law. You are guilty until proven innocent. You enjoy the juice and you're too coward to admit it.

But I'm not mad bra. I will probably like you in time when you move past this steroid obsession... and if you change your avatar. Well, probably still if you don't change your avatar. I just gave you shit and you jumped. It all became too easy from there.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Lol you guys still going at it??

Sometimes i think decent discussions are dead.

Its all about who has the biggest E penis now a days. What a sad time we live in.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

According to the Soojooko scale of Lulz... this thread is 55,789 times funnier then your average thread in this forum.

I approve.

Thales... you is a bit mad... but I like you! No point getting too defensive, even if some arguments *seem* to you to be completely illogical. This is the internet baby! If we cant be absurdly ridiculous here, then where?

Let me put it this way, have you EVER found an internet forum where logic and insanity don't happily go hand in hand? If you have, I'd like a link.

Anyway, back on topic. Is your avy gay? Well, if I was gay, I would find you rather sexy. But I aint, so what do I know, right?

( by the way, I'm out of shape and look like shit. )


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Thales said:


> LO[email protected] getting neg repped and raging all the way over to the thread, thinking I'm mad.


Yea, I'm that mad I negged you back straight away, oh wait....

I think your posts are great, keep it up.


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## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

PheelGoodInc said:


> LOL. You obviously are. The second someone makes fun of your obviously gay photo you respond in an instance. Yet when someone tears you apart you claim to leave the thread... only to respond to anyone else that mentions your name. Obviously you're mad bra. It's cool. Just admit it.


Are you frightened by homosexuals? Do you think it's insulting to call someone gay? As someone who seems to be looking for the gay in everything, and is obsessed with it, I'd like to point out something; a guilty dog barks the loudest.



PheelGoodInc said:


> FYI I haven't been 130 pounds since Jr High. Whatever you gotta tell yourself to feel better


Oh, you just look like you're 5'7" and 130lbs. 




PheelGoodInc said:


> Ah there you go again with your claims and elitist attitude. This is the internet dude. You can try to sound as smart and as tough as you want. The fact is if you were half of what you claim to be you wouldn't be arguing with guys on an internet forum. You definitely wouldn't be getting this worked up on an internet forum. You damn sure wouldn't run away the first time someone tore your argument to shreds. You plain and simple are full of shit. Everyone sees it. But you think if you keep quoting people and talking a lot while using correct grammar someone will buy your bullshit. People don't. Sorry bro.


Who ran away? You have some garbage reading comprehension, kid. "-fin", as in I am done contesting the truth and debating the whole Chael Sonnen issue. Pray tell, how does one -sound- smart and tough without making a sound? 




PheelGoodInc said:


> No. Just with your gay avatar. Feel free to search though my posts. You were quick to search my profile which means you're obviously mad. When the majority of people agree that your avatar is gay, it's usually not the majority that's wrong; it's you. Think about that. Then make another excuse to yourself so that you can feel better about staring at gayness in every post you make.


The majority? 2-3 people are the majority out of ~55k users? Amazing statistical skills. Two clicks of my mouse brings up your profile, and suddenly that's considered a search and, by your illogical ignorance, I must have been mad. Guess you were raging when you went and searched through my posts. So butt-hurt that you actually used the search function. 

No, the majority is -never- wrong. Pfft.




PheelGoodInc said:


> Yet you are so fast to respond to neg reps. LOL. If only you were as fast to respond to posts that ripped you apart and dropped the elitist attitude people might have some respect for you. Unfortunately until you figure that out you will not fit in here. Except for a few of the other trolls who are well known and their opinions don't mean much. Good luck dude.


Neg reps seem to be the only thing you understand, junior. You're so concerned with what people on this forum think, living by that reputation system. It's a pathetic indication of how you live your life; begging for acceptance, living and dying by other people's opinion.



PheelGoodInc said:


> Honestly I love new gold members. Sometimes they have a lot to ******* learn though.


Honestly I love pathetic illiterates, they think they know something because they spend all of their free time on a forum.



PheelGoodInc said:


> You can talk as much as you want about the benefits of steroids. I agree with most of it. If you weren't so fast to jump all over my posts you would have realized this. I just want an equal playing field for all athletes... steroids or not. But my opinion on the subject doesn't really matter as you find more joy in debating semantics with me than actual points.


Semantics are a necessary part of language. Get over it.




PheelGoodInc said:


> The fact is when someone like yourself who obviously works out a lot and feels so strongly about something related to working out; it's a damn safe assumption that you yourself are on steroids. You claim you're not, yet the only topics you are interested in on a form you *paid* to be on are steroids and weight lifting. Claim all you want. 2 + 2 = 4 and this isn't the court of law. You are guilty until proven innocent. You enjoy the juice and you're too coward to admit it.


The fact is when someone like -you-, who obviously uses the word "gay" a lot and feels rather strongly about homosexuality, it's a damn safe assumption that you are probably gay.

Actually, that's not true. I've been commenting on nutrition, training, UFC, and off-topic subjects. Next time you are eye-banging my avatar notice my profession; personal trainer. A pretty decent explanation of why nutrition, exercise, and training are recurring topics for me. Perhaps after my graduate degree I'll dabble in some anabolics, but not right now. I've made enough gains without them and still have natural room for improvement. It's always a laugh when people have no perception of what someone on juice looks like, or assume that because their jealous of someone else's hard work they must have cheated.




PheelGoodInc said:


> But I'm not mad bra. I will probably like you in time when you move past this steroid obsession... and if you change your avatar. Well, probably still if you don't change your avatar. I just gave you shit and you jumped. It all became too easy from there.


Not sure I'm tracking... I'm obsessed with steroids because I correct people when they spread misinformation? Okay...


P.S.
What is a "jui jitsu tournament"? *Cough* Poser pretending to be into MMA *Cough*


----------



## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

I hope this fight happens as soon as possible. I'm tired of this talk. And since it's bound to happen, I'd rather it happen in Nevada than Texas or overseas. The NSAC may be a joke compared to USADA, but they're about as good as it gets for a state commission. Which is sad.



Thales said:


> Who ran away? You have some garbage reading comprehension, kid. "-fin", as in I am done contesting the truth and debating the whole Chael Sonnen issue. Pray tell, how does one -sound- smart and tough without making a sound?


I guess he's inferring from the sequence of posts that you left the Chael Sonnen discussion because you had no further support for a statement of fact that had been challenged, but you didn't want to admit you were wrong about anything.

One can try to sound smart or tough without making physical sounds by writing words meant to convey that one possesses that attribute.



> *sound *
> 
> _verb _(SEEM)
> 
> ...


Cambridge International Dictionary of Phrasal Verbs


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

:laugh:

This is the best thread in ages!


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## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

SmackyBear said:


> I guess he's inferring from the sequence of posts that you left the Chael Sonnen discussion because you had no further support for a statement of fact that had been challenged, but you didn't want to admit you were wrong about anything.
> 
> One can try to sound smart or tough without making physical sounds by writing words meant to convey that one possesses that attribute.
> 
> ...


Touche. Good to see he can fight his own battles too. Care to address his homophobia while you're at it too?


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## mmawrestler (May 18, 2008)

I normally hate "wwe" shit talk, but cheal is such an interesting personality, i like him more and more as time goes on, but silva will destroy him in the second time around


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Thales said:


> Are you frightened by homosexuals? Do you think it's insulting to call someone gay? As someone who seems to be looking for the gay in everything, and is obsessed with it, I'd like to point out something; a guilty dog barks the loudest.


Not at all. Gay is gay dude. An avatar of a picture that you took yourself posing after a workout in a sweaty t-shirt while flexing is pretty damn gay. To each their own though. Whatever makes you happy I guess.




> Oh, you just look like you're 5'7" and 130lbs.


Lulz. I was going to write my actual height and weight but then I realized I don't care what you think. You do seem to be pretty obsessed with my body size. Another overwhelmingly gay thing you keep bringing up.





> Who ran away? You have some garbage reading comprehension, kid. "-fin", as in I am done contesting the truth and debating the whole Chael Sonnen issue. Pray tell, how does one -sound- smart and tough without making a sound?


You did. The second someone dis-proved your point you make a short rant about how you're done in the thread. Only to return and address everyone except the person who proved you wrong.

What does it say about someone who resorts to constant critique of grammar / tenses on an internet forum about MMA? Probably that someone is extremely insecure. Explains why you feel the need to look at your gay avatar with every post in order to feel better about yourself.




> The majority? 2-3 people are the majority out of ~55k users? Amazing statistical skills. Two clicks of my mouse brings up your profile, and suddenly that's considered a search and, by your illogical ignorance, I must have been mad. Guess you were raging when you went and searched through my posts. So butt-hurt that you actually used the search function.


Nope. When there's 5 active participants in the thread and 2-3 have openly spoke about how gay your avatar is... and there's surely more who haven't. It does make the majority in this topic. I never searched through your posts. You were very quick tp look at my profile after going into roid rage when your sexual insecurities were brought up.



> No, the majority is -never- wrong. Pfft.


When it comes to a matter of one guy being a douche and the majority call him out on it, yeah the majority is usually right. I guess it MUST be everyone else thats out of line here, not you.




> Neg reps seem to be the only thing you understand, junior. You're so concerned with what people on this forum think, living by that reputation system. It's a pathetic indication of how you live your life; begging for acceptance, living and dying by other people's opinion.


Lulz. I'm not the one who gets a nerve struck at a single red rep and blows up and returning the rep within seconds.




> Honestly I love pathetic illiterates, they think they know something because they spend all of their free time on a forum.


Illiterate. Hah. Once again I could easily not only disprove you. I could explain that when I use my correct grammar / tenses / punctuation on a daily basis it is for far more professional and serious situations. Not some internet forum on MMA. Then I realize I don't care what you know about my personal life and I have nothing to try and prove to you. Unlike you who spends all day nitpicking at peoples typing and grammar on an internet forum while attempting to act smarter and in better shape than everyone else. You're as insecure as a 13 year old girl who just got her first period.

Dude you have some of the longest replies I've ever seen on this forum and it's all usually to people who don't like you. I'm on this forum usually a day or two a week... at most. You can't seem to leave a place where people don't even want you. Ouch. Now that's pathetic.




> Semantics are a necessary part of language. Get over it.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is when someone like -you-, who obviously uses the word "gay" a lot and feels rather strongly about homosexuality, it's a damn safe assumption that you are probably gay.


I call a spade a spade. You deny it. That simple really.



> Actually, that's not true. I've been commenting on nutrition, training, UFC, and off-topic subjects. Next time you are eye-banging my avatar notice my profession; personal trainer. A pretty decent explanation of why nutrition, exercise, and training are recurring topics for me. Perhaps after my graduate degree I'll dabble in some anabolics, but not right now. I've made enough gains without them and still have natural room for improvement. It's always a laugh when people have no perception of what someone on juice looks like, or assume that because their jealous of someone else's hard work they must have cheated.


Not jealous in the slightest of anything. If I put a gay avatar of myself like that on this forum I would have to kick my own ass. I'm extremely happy with my cardio / nutrition / training regimen at the moment. I would go into detail but again, I don't care what you think about me. I don't feel the need to go online and try to show off to strangers who don't even like me.





> Not sure I'm tracking... I'm obsessed with steroids because I correct people when they spread misinformation? Okay...


Of course you aren't. You spend hours arguing the benefits of steroids and how they should be legal. Your job is working out and showing other people how to work out. You're telling me someone who is so obsessed with legalizing steroids and works out all the time has never done steroids?

Not a chance.



> P.S.
> What is a "jui jitsu tournament"? *Cough* Poser pretending to be into MMA *Cough*


How can I pretend to me into MMA? Last I checked it's my favorite sport and I watch it regularly with a pretty good knowledge of whats going on. That seems pretty "into" MMA to me. Not sure what you're getting at here. I assume for the sake of argument that you mean I pretend to be a MMA fighter. No, not even close. I train for the sport because I grew up grappling. I do it 3-5 times a week as part of my regimen and because it's fun. You calling me a poser for working out, having fun, and enjoying a sport? Another obvious and glaring insecurity coming from you.


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## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

PheelGoodInc said:


> ...


Cliffs:
1) You have nothing to refute, so you've resorted to calling my avatar gay after making some huge assumptions.
2) You don't know what majority means.
3) You don't know how to spell jiu-jitsu, and you don't even know that you don't know how to spell it.
4) You're incapable of anything but hypocrisy. You make assumptions, then rage like a manlet when someone does the same to you.
5) You're a skinny little poser who assumes anyone who is bigger than you must either be juicing or gay. Weak cover-up for your insecurities/sexual predilections.
6) You have a low quality high school education.
7) You have no life.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)




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## Thales (Mar 7, 2011)

oldfan said:


>


Strong contribution to the thread.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Thales said:


> Cliffs:
> 1) You have nothing to refute, so you've resorted to calling my avatar gay after making some huge assumptions.
> 2) You don't know what majority means.
> 3) You don't know how to spell jiu-jitsu, and you don't even know that you don't know how to spell it.
> ...



You may have well just said "I quit" and left the thread.

It's obvious you really believe at least most of that list. That makes me laugh quite a bit. Maybe I'll catch you in another thread and we can get along.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Thales said:


> Strong contribution to the thread.


I do what I can with what I gots.

them smarter guys got it.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

This is just stupid.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

this forum is getting out of hand. People need to realize that others can have a differing opinion without neg repping every post. I see a lot of members leaving the forum for good if this doesn't slow down. I've been around for a long time and this is worst it's ever been. I have a list of neg reps saying, stupid, gtfo, gay etc. etc. for stating an opinion with zero negativity or provocation. This childish bickering is killing what should be a place to rationally discuss a sport most of us claim to love.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

Thales said:


> Touche. Good to see he can fight his own battles too. Care to address his homophobia while you're at it too?


I wasn't aware this was a private conversation. If you want to have a private discussion, I would recommend the private message function.

There are probably other forums that would be better to discuss the appropriateness of the use of the word. Hatred vs. etymological fallacy, and all that. If people think discussing Chael Sonnen draws discussion that's far too passionate, I imagine that discussion will result in a forum version of nuclear holocaust.



rabakill said:


> this forum is getting out of hand. People need to realize that others can have a differing opinion without neg repping every post. I see a lot of members leaving the forum for good if this doesn't slow down. I've been around for a long time and this is worst it's ever been. I have a list of neg reps saying, stupid, gtfo, gay etc. etc. for stating an opinion with zero negativity or provocation. This childish bickering is killing what should be a place to rationally discuss a sport most of us claim to love.


If someone is negging you and leaving insults, I think that's against the rules, and you can report it to a mod. I don't know if they look at your rep comments without someone letting them know there's something abusive in there.

I honestly don't think the tone of this thread is that bad for a thread involving a fighter who is trolling.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

PGI's cop persona comes through so much online, haha.



Also, color me surprised that Chael's real life trolling lead to internet trolling. Shocker.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Chael is a funny guy, and I like him despite his problems with honesty. It's his fans that piss me off... the ones who actually think he's serious about anything he says.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

HexRei said:


> Chael is a funny guy, and I like him despite his problems with honesty. It's his fans that piss me off... the ones who actually think he's serious about anything he says.


The thing is... his fans DONT think he is serious. Thats why they are his fans. Its the Chael haters that run around trying to find a spell to send Chael hell.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> The thing is... his fans DONT think he is serious. Thats why they are his fans. Its the Chael haters that run around trying to find a spell to send Chael hell.


I see people on both sides taking him seriously. Sure, his fans usually crack up at what he says, but plenty of them also agree, they really think he's a "gangster" for example. Or at least metaphorically. I've met Chael, we live in the same town and his family is pretty well known locally, he's about as gangster as George Bush.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

HexRei said:


> I see people on both sides taking him seriously. Sure, his fans usually crack up at what he says, but plenty of them also agree, they really think he's a "gangster" for example. Or at least metaphorically. I've met Chael, we live in the same town and his family is pretty well known locally, he's about as gangster as George Bush.


I thought George Bush was a gangster.
A real powerful one too.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

There are a lot of people who realize that it's just marketing though, so often the vocal minority make it seem as if they take him seriously. I just want to watch him fight, his jokes are interesting in that nobody else in the UFC has the ability to spew so much nonsense and get away with it. And I'd agree, George Bush kind of is a gangster, his dads involvement with the Contras, the CIA and drug smuggling in central America make him seem like a gangster.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

AmdM said:


> I thought George Bush was a gangster.
> A real powerful one too.


In a sense, you're completely right. But not the kind people think of when they think gangster.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

Chael Sonnen has gotten more attention and hype that any other fighter with a 26-11 record in the history of MMA. His career highlight so far is a fight that he lost. Maybe if he finishes a couple of top 10 fighters then he deserves attention, but for now, let's just say he knows how to promote himself.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

In defense of Ed Soares, the guy is a phenomenal manager, and really is more or less independent of Anderson Silva when it comes to his career. He doesn't have to latch on to one fighter, though Anderson is clearly his best superstar. Even if he lost Anderson as a client, he would still be one of the most influential managers in MMA today; I actually like having his opinion out there, personally.

That said, Chael is getting pretty out there. I mean, this is a got who lost *and then* tested positive for steroids. Yes, I realize that he had the best performance against Anderson that anyone else had, but I probably wouldn't want to be so vocal about asking for a rematch that reminds everyone I was juicing.

Personally, I do want to see this fight, so I hope that it happens. The hype, with Chael at the helm, will be awesome, and the fight would be fun to watch, I think. As long as Anderson doesn't go out of his way to try and prolong it, as he may have done with Maia, then I think it'll be thoroughly enjoyable for everyone.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

IronMan said:


> In defense of Ed Soares, the guy is a phenomenal manager, and really is more or less independent of Anderson Silva when it comes to his career. He doesn't have to latch on to one fighter, though Anderson is clearly his best superstar. Even if he lost Anderson as a client, he would still be one of the most influential managers in MMA today; I actually like having his opinion out there, personally.
> 
> That said, Chael is getting pretty out there. I mean, this is a got who lost *and then* tested positive for steroids. Yes, I realize that he had the best performance against Anderson that anyone else had, but I probably wouldn't want to be so vocal about asking for a rematch that reminds everyone I was juicing.
> 
> Personally, I do want to see this fight, so I hope that it happens. The hype, with Chael at the helm, will be awesome, and the fight would be fun to watch, I think. As long as Anderson doesn't go out of his way to try and prolong it, as he may have done with Maia, then I think it'll be thoroughly enjoyable for everyone.


Your posts are always well written and I usually agree with your logic and sometime even opinions, but man...I find it really hard to read in the font you insist on switching to (or maybe it is the size and my old man eyes, but my 30 inch monitor should fix that. I know it is times new roman but it just looks weird on this forum).


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Sorry to everyone else for reviving this pissing contest, but after reading my neg rep from this douche who apparently thinks that people who don't have the time to respond to his page-long retard arguments are "cowards who got owned", I'll give our friend here what he wants. 

FYI Thales, the only reason I wasn't replying was because your so called "knowledge" has already been torn apart by the likes of SmackyBear (<--- this is what real knowledge and argument looks like, which you are coward enough to run from and get owned by) and PheelGood. That and I happen to have a life and a real job, so spending hours debating with obvious roidhead nerds was not high on my priority list. But since you insist, let me tear it open a little wider for you.



Thales said:


> Steroid worship? Don't attribute knowledge of the benefits of steroid use with "worship".
> 
> 
> No, I've sat through anatomy and physiology lectures concerning the endocrine system. Having endured those lectures, the required reading, and research I expressed an educated understanding of steroid use. The fact that you're using a straw-man argument to discredit me shows that you have no legitimate response. I never put forth the claim that steroids defied the "laws of the human body", though I've never been informed that the human body has physiological laws, or that taking steroids will turn someone into a super hero.
> ...


Please don't get so cocky about your halfass pre-med droput knowledge from buttsecksville community college ... I know my science and happen to be working in Computer science research in Cambridge, one of the top 3 if not the #1 university in the world. Check the IP for any of my posts for the last 4 months if you want (not this one, I'm on vacation but any of the previous ones). 

You on the other hand are an insecure know-it-all that will amount to nothing but another heart-attack at 30 statistic, and star poster on the impotency forums. Clearly won't make much of a contribution to the MMA ones. 

I never equated corticosteroids to anabolics, something which you keep stating. That is YOUR assumption on the links I posted about steroids IN GENERAL (anabolics and corticosteroids), because you had your head too far up your lover's ass to know what my implication was. I know the difference, I've known it for years and a lot of other knowledge on the subject besides. 

I also know that they are still the same chemical group even if they have different functions ... no matter what type of steroid though, their base purpose is the same, to regulate body functions. The point I was making was that ANY messing around with the body's hormonal balances beyond emergency measures was detrimental to long term health, and so corticosteroids or any other artificial steroids fall in the same boat as anabolics in terms of upsetting the hormonal balances. 



Thales said:


> 2) Your body can synthesize all of the steroids it needs, unless you suffer from a homeostatic imbalance which prevents the synthesis of certain hormones (androgenic or otherwise). TRT is a means of correcting a homeostatic imbalance. A doctor prescribes a synthetic testosterone to increase levels to a level consistent with physiological homeostasis.


But you are advocating legalizing it for EVERYONE. EVERYONE doesn't have homestatic imbalance. Unless of course you give yourself the damn disease by using your roids in the first place. And correcting doesn't mean going 4 times over the limit PERIOD.



Thales said:


> 3) Actually, yes your body does need steroids. Are you familiar with what role steroids play in the development of primary sexual characteristics, sexual reproduction, or that cholesterol is a steroid necessary for cell mitosis?


As above, it only needs steroids it can produce on it's own from normal food and nutrition. I am well aware of all the processes in the body that are controlled by steroids and steroids are needed for, remember the whole lecture about steroids being the body's control switches and mechanisms? 

But the body makes what it needs. NO ONE needs artificial steroids. Except a small minority with homeostatic imbalance. But we're not talking about them are we? You were talking about legalizing it. And using it as a cover for healthy young athletes who gave themselves that imbalance from previous steroid use.



Thales said:


> We're talking about TRT, not the arbitrary consumption of an oral anabolic steroid to bulk up. You seem to enjoy over-generalizations.


You have many quotes defending any and all steroid use in addition to just TRT, and in any case any testosterone imbalance at such a young age is generally caused by anabolics. 



Thales said:


> 1) I took anatomy and physiology (1/2 + labs) and shadow an endocrinology internist because they are required pre-requisites and increase my competitiveness for medical school.
> 
> 2) I haven't juiced a day in my life, kid. I practice proper dieting, a regular exercise regiment, and a scientific approach to developing my physique. The fact that I'm 6'0 and weigh 185lbs. doesn't scream anabolic steroids. The fact that you immediately attribute my hard work to steroids is a telling sign that you lack any sort of dedication or motivation to improve, so everyone else must be cheating.


HAHAHA Good one roidie ... you have this gay ass flexy avatar and spend half your life trying to debate people who are laughing at your pathetic arguments, trying to convince yourself more than them that steroids are ok. Clearly you are trying to justify a personal choice.

I am not "envying" you, the only way your sad skinny little muscles approach the 185 lbs you claim is after a 10-day thanksgiving dinner binge. I've been doing weights for 10 years and practicing MMA for 5, weigh in at a cut 6'3" 195lbs and have far more of a built with natural hard work than you can achieve with your jersey shore gymrat buddies and your roids in a lifetime. If this is all you can achieve WITH roids, you must've been a wet noodle before.




Thales said:


> 3) I always assumed there were ED support groups, but didn't know about acne support groups. I guess that makes sense.


Oh come now, you've more than assumed, you're the star member. No humility now. 



Thales said:


> So glad you used Google to copy and paste a definition, it's fairly obvious though. If you were aware of the above definition prior to this point you were being willfully ignorant in your posts. So, were you unaware and talking out of your ass or willfully ignorant?


Nope, knew it all before, again you need to get that head out of aforementioned ass and understand my implication. 



Thales said:


> 1) It's called the law of diminishing returns, and it applies to physiology as well as economics. Your body builds a tolerance to just about anything with time.


Exactly, so you're aware that your body will need more and more steroids just to maintain a natural level (which it will no longer be able to make on it's own) yet you still defend it.



Thales said:


> 2) Cool story, and very convenient to your anti-all-steroids stance. I had mild psoriasis on the bridge of my nose and left cheek, I used triamcinolone acetonide cream (a corticosteroid) to clear it up right away. I also reduced my stress, increased the amount of sleep I was getting, and stopped drinking every other day. Now the only time it flairs up is after getting absolutely wasted, a bit of the prescribed cream and it's cleared up. Your point is irrelevant to TRT as a corticosteroid isn't the same as androgen, and I suspect some half-baked story you're trying to use to cover up a gaff in the other thread.


Yeah ok so I gave myself psoriasis just to "cover up" your dumbass assumptions of a gaffe. You're just too much fun, what a nutjob.

As for the triamcinolone acetonide, keep using it bro. Talk to me in 3 years when you're up to Diflorasone diacetate or Clobetasol Propionate and it's still popping up elsewhere.



Thales said:


> 3) Again, I've never taken an androgenic steroid. Just because I can support something based on an educated opinion doesn't mean I'm willing to partake of it. I support capital punishment (death penalty) for someone who commits murder, it doesn't mean given the chance I would serve as the executioner.


Again ha freaking ha pinnochio. And you advocating something for others that you would never do for yourself makes you a GIANT HYPOCRITE and a douche. Especially advocating legalizing and essentially making it mandatory (those who didn't use it would be at an unfair disadvantage then) on athletes just for your personal amusement. If I supported the death penalty, I'd be willing to swing that axe. 

Besides, if you really think steroids are so benign and so nice, then why wouldn't you use them? And why would you get so defensive and talk about "hard work" when I mentioned you using them? If there's nothing wrong with it, then why berate me for assuming something that you don't consider wrong anyway? That goes for the gay comments too, if you're not homophobic, why're you getting so mad at people for calling your avatar gay? Which it clearly is.

The fact is you know your argument is shit which is why you're so defensive. Which is why you won't respond to Smacky's dismantling. Deep down, you know you're a worthless insecure roidhead nerd hiding behind your pre-med requirement classes. -fin


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

lol jesus that took awhile to read. interesting though, sort of 

steroids are gay btw


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

I got bored with Thales' self-righteousness and threw him on my CBA list (ignore list) - So much better now. Thankyou MMAF 

Any news on Sonnens new offer anyone?


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I wonder what Chael's next move will be.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

oldfan said:


> I wonder what Chael's next move will be.


I don't know. But I hear it's not going to be nice.

FYI great post Lidel. I laughed several times. You hit the nail on the head.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> Sorry to everyone else...
> 
> ...Deep down, you know you're a worthless insecure roidhead nerd hiding behind your pre-med requirement classes.












Its moments like this I'm sad I can only rep someone once until I spread


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

lol i missed this place, thread full of win, good thing the mods let it keep going


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