# elbow pain after sparring?



## Rocco1016 (Oct 13, 2010)

After sparring, I have *SEVERE* elbow pain in both arms. I know I am not hyper extending my arms and I don't know what's causing it. The pain is so bad that it is very difficult to move them. The weird thing is that the pain goes away after 3 or 4 hours. I have done research online and have not found anything. Has anyone else experienced this and do you have any suggestions that may help with the pain? By the way, I am 29 years old and in good physical shape. Any advice is appreciated.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

What kind of sparring? Like full tilt sparring? Do you throw a lot of hooks? You might be landing them wrong. This happened to one of my sparring partners because he wasn't landing his hooks right. It could also be tendonitis (make sure you stretch really well).


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## smokelaw1 (Aug 3, 2007)

I used to spar with a guy about 7 inches shorter than me AND had stubby little arms (but he was strong as hell and fast as sin). He used to throw out jabs CONSTANTLY to keep the distance. There was enough snap and extension on them to hurt me if I didn't respect them, but they were meant purely to keep me at the right distance for him to jump in and beat me up inside (worked well) or take me down (worked embarrasingly well).

Anyway, he developed really bad elbow pain in his left arm after a long session, and the doctor told him he essentially had tennis elbow (is that tendonitis?) 

So, if you are sparring standup and throwing a ton of "long fakes" that don't connect, you may be putting strange strain on your elbows that they arent' used to. Do you develop the same pain after a heavy pad session? If not, you might be having the same problem that my buddy was.


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## Rocco1016 (Oct 13, 2010)

TraMaI said:


> What kind of sparring? Like full tilt sparring? Do you throw a lot of hooks? You might be landing them wrong. This happened to one of my sparring partners because he wasn't landing his hooks right. It could also be tendonitis (make sure you stretch really well).


It's Muay Thai Sparring. I don't throw many hooks....a lot of jabs though. I think you might be right when you say I am landing my punches wrong. Sometimes if it's a hard punch that lands, I feel almost like a shock to my elbow. When I throw hooks, I throw them with my thumb facing up (that's most comfortable for me). Do you think this could be the problem? Also, I get elbow pain in Jiu Jitsu also, but it's not nearly as bad.


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## Rocco1016 (Oct 13, 2010)

smokelaw1 said:


> I used to spar with a guy about 7 inches shorter than me AND had stubby little arms (but he was strong as hell and fast as sin). He used to throw out jabs CONSTANTLY to keep the distance. There was enough snap and extension on them to hurt me if I didn't respect them, but they were meant purely to keep me at the right distance for him to jump in and beat me up inside (worked well) or take me down (worked embarrasingly well).
> 
> Anyway, he developed really bad elbow pain in his left arm after a long session, and the doctor told him he essentially had tennis elbow (is that tendonitis?)
> 
> So, if you are sparring standup and throwing a ton of "long fakes" that don't connect, you may be putting strange strain on your elbows that they arent' used to. Do you develop the same pain after a heavy pad session? If not, you might be having the same problem that my buddy was.


I do throw a few "fakes." The only time I can make it through with just a little pain is if I take 800mg of ibuprofen before sparring. This is fine, but I don't want to keep putting that in my body. When I do pad training, it usually doesn't hurt too much. That may be because when I am sparring, I am more aggressive. Thank you for your input.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Came here to post what Smokelaw posted. You're probably over extending when you jab, happens to basically everyone when they're starting out.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Rocco1016 said:


> It's Muay Thai Sparring. I don't throw many hooks....a lot of jabs though. I think you might be right when you say I am landing my punches wrong. Sometimes if it's a hard punch that lands, I feel almost like a shock to my elbow. When I throw hooks, I throw them with my thumb facing up (that's most comfortable for me). Do you think this could be the problem? Also, I get elbow pain in Jiu Jitsu also, but it's not nearly as bad.


It's probably a mix of this and what smoke said. Overreaching on punches that miss and using fully committed feints will hurt your elbows. Landing hooking punches even slightly wrong will hurt them incredibly bad if you do it for a long period of time (it will hyper extend your elbow over and over and over). If it's mainly in your left elbow (and I'm assuming you stand orthodox) then it's probably the jab/straight extension getting to you. I'm inclined to think your body will get used to it eventually (I've never had this problem) but I'm not 100% that's the case. What I would do is have someone tap ea sparring session and then go watch it, see if you're over extending on feints/jabs/straights and correct it if you are. If you AREN'T it could be tendinitis which is fairly easily treated by stretching a lot before hand (I DID have tendinitis when I used to play drums).

Also, do you feel it around your elbow (like the top of your forearm and bottom of you biceps?) or does it feel like its INSIDE your elbow? As in the joint itself feels stiff and almost like it needs cracked like a knuckle? If it's the ladder, it's probably bursitis, which can be cured with a mild anti-inflammatory and some anti-biotics. I've gotten that before (when I first started learning BJJ and throwing triangles a lot and then again when I started doing heavy kicks) and that is a biiiiiitch.


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## Rocco1016 (Oct 13, 2010)

TraMaI said:


> It's probably a mix of this and what smoke said. Overreaching on punches that miss and using fully committed feints will hurt your elbows. Landing hooking punches even slightly wrong will hurt them incredibly bad if you do it for a long period of time (it will hyper extend your elbow over and over and over). If it's mainly in your left elbow (and I'm assuming you stand orthodox) then it's probably the jab/straight extension getting to you. I'm inclined to think your body will get used to it eventually (I've never had this problem) but I'm not 100% that's the case. What I would do is have someone tap ea sparring session and then go watch it, see if you're over extending on feints/jabs/straights and correct it if you are. If you AREN'T it could be tendinitis which is fairly easily treated by stretching a lot before hand (I DID have tendinitis when I used to play drums).
> 
> Also, do you feel it around your elbow (like the top of your forearm and bottom of you biceps?) or does it feel like its INSIDE your elbow? As in the joint itself feels stiff and almost like it needs cracked like a knuckle? If it's the ladder, it's probably bursitis, which can be cured with a mild anti-inflammatory and some anti-biotics. I've gotten that before (when I first started learning BJJ and throwing triangles a lot and then again when I started doing heavy kicks) and that is a biiiiiitch.


It's around the elbow by my forearm and bicep.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Could it be keeping your arm too tense when you throw punches? Keeping the elbow rigid and tight rather than keeping it loose?


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## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

Rocco1016 said:


> It's Muay Thai Sparring. I don't throw many hooks....a lot of jabs though. I think you might be right when you say I am landing my punches wrong. Sometimes if it's a hard punch that lands, I feel almost like a shock to my elbow. When I throw hooks, I throw them with my thumb facing up (that's most comfortable for me). Do you think this could be the problem? Also, I get elbow pain in Jiu Jitsu also, but it's not nearly as bad.


 dont know what the pain is bothering you but it bothers me when ppl dont turn their hand over on hooks, limits power, accuracy and is just straight bush league and you can hurt yourself.

Could very well be you are landing awkwardly on the pads/bags, that stuff used to hurt me when i boxed when i was younger but never to the severity you are describing.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

SonOfZion said:


> dont know what the pain is bothering you but it bothers me when ppl dont turn their hand over on hooks, limits power, accuracy and is just straight bush league and you can hurt yourself.
> 
> Could very well be you are landing awkwardly on the pads/bags, that stuff used to hurt me when i boxed when i was younger but never to the severity you are describing.



Turning your hand over in a hook isn't a black and white issue. Generally, your turn you hand over (palm facing down) for a long-range (lead) hook, in the clinching range you keep your fist vertical. Obviously still striking with your primary two knuckles.


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## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

khoveraki said:


> Turning your hand over in a hook isn't a black and white issue. Generally, your turn you hand over (palm facing down) for a long-range (lead) hook, in the clinching range you keep your fist vertical. Obviously still striking with your primary two knuckles.


 Palm is supposed to be down or at 45 degrees. Big gloves take away accuracy and smooth delivery so alot of people go thumb up and are in effect throwing a haymaker. Elbow isn't up because of open palm and if it is then you can feel your palm being up isn't natural. There will be a slight strain on the forearm. Ultimately it affects your technique.

Keep that palm down and throw the shot for accuracy. Thumb up and you are covering more surface area on the face, which shouldn't be the desired aim.

Also throwing palm down leaves your shoulder in a good spot to block or roll punches if they counter the hook.


I also believe palm down produces more power. This is what i was taught from an early age but i do know ppl hitting very heavy bags with poor technique going palm inward on big power shots are gonna hurt themselves.


Again, this is strictly boxing training, i know TS is speaking Muay Thai but i think boxing knows a bit about the left hook aswell but prob alot of defensive techniques and reasoning might not be applicable to MT or MMA so im all ears to learn a few things about why palm inward is better for close range?? i dont believe you produce more power doing it.


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## Rocco1016 (Oct 13, 2010)

LizaG said:


> Could it be keeping your arm too tense when you throw punches? Keeping the elbow rigid and tight rather than keeping it loose?


It's funny you should mention that because 2 of my instructors tell me that I'm too tense. I will remember this for Monday. Thanks.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

SonOfZion said:


> Palm is supposed to be down or at 45 degrees. Big gloves take away accuracy and smooth delivery so alot of people go thumb up and are in effect throwing a haymaker. Elbow isn't up because of open palm and if it is then you can feel your palm being up isn't natural. There will be a slight strain on the forearm. Ultimately it affects your technique.
> 
> Keep that palm down and throw the shot for accuracy. Thumb up and you are covering more surface area on the face, which shouldn't be the desired aim.
> 
> ...



My hook information is coming from a few places:

Anderson Silva's striking book page 91

Castricone Kickboxing - instructor was one of Alves' muay thai instructors back in the day

Fedor's MMA book (forgot page number)

Wand Fight Gym Muay Thai instructor


Palm vertical because you can't get any power going palm-down in very close range. Accuracy matters less in that range too.


But I've never been to a boxing gym and I know the right hook barely even exists in boxing, and the clinch-range right hook is the only time I've seen anyone tell me to do it palm vertical. Might just be a different view in boxing, with the 12-16oz gloves it would definitely be awkward to throw it palm vertical.


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## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

well i cant disagree with that many high level fighters. With boxing gloves on i do know that throwing it palm down allows more whip force as it truely gives you the angle to make it come down a bit and put more body behind it. Also in boxing you dont want to hit a bigger area of the face like palm inward does, you want to put all the force in the smallest area possible, preferably the chin and palm down makes this easier from close range.

Not to mention i just feel palm down feels biomechinally better and natural but that maybe because ive been throwing it like that since a young age. I will say i do throw palm inward hooks aswell, its always good to come from different angles and styles but if somebody were to ask me to throw my best, hardest left hook, it would always be palm down and most of my hooks that i would throw would be palm down.

Interesting, i was considering taking up Muay Thai since they teach it at my gym for no additional charge and im already doing BJJ. I fig since i have a boxing background i should do ground work 1st but perhaps its time to learn some new striking techniques. I do miss hitting bags but damn if my flexibility for kicks doesnt suck.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

SonOfZion said:


> well i cant disagree with that many high level fighters. With boxing gloves on i do know that throwing it palm down allows more whip force as it truely gives you the angle to make it come down a bit and put more body behind it. Also in boxing you dont want to hit a bigger area of the face like palm inward does, you want to put all the force in the smallest area possible, preferably the chin and palm down makes this easier from close range.
> 
> Not to mention i just feel palm down feels biomechinally better and natural but that maybe because ive been throwing it like that since a young age. I will say i do throw palm inward hooks aswell, its always good to come from different angles and styles but if somebody were to ask me to throw my best, hardest left hook, it would always be palm down and most of my hooks that i would throw would be palm down.
> 
> Interesting, i was considering taking up Muay Thai since they teach it at my gym for no additional charge and im already doing BJJ. I fig since i have a boxing background i should do ground work 1st but perhaps its time to learn some new striking techniques. I do miss hitting bags but damn if my flexibility for kicks doesnt suck.


The low kicks in muay thai are the second best stand-up tool in the world IMO and you don't need much flexibility for it. Learn them and make them fluid after your boxing combos and you've got a good striker.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

The whole debate in vertical/horizontal hooks is sort of gray area, as khov says. I tend to throw my low punches vertical as it feels more natural and the surface area really doesn't matter when you're hitting a target thats bigger than your hand no matter where you hit (AKA the surface area is the same either way). I never throw hooks to the head vertical though, but I can see how it's possible to use it in an advantageous way when thrown to the temple. The temple, being a high target, is easy to mis judge height wise. Throwing vertical gives you m ore room for error on the punch and it will still connect correctly. Using it to the jaw though means you're trying to hit more of a lateral target, so throwing it horizontal (palm down) give you more room for error. Also, as far as MMA goes, throwing them vertical makes it easier to clinch on a missed shot (like Fedor does all the time). You can throw them both with the EXACT same technique as well, the wrist is almost a completely independant joint of the elbow and if it's done correctly can it can be done with very little to no rotation on the forearm and elbow (you can throw both of them flat very easily).

EDIT: Khov, whats the first? Jab?


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> The whole debate in vertical/horizontal hooks is sort of gray area, as khov says. I tend to throw my low punches vertical as it feels more natural and the surface area really doesn't matter when you're hitting a target thats bigger than your hand no matter where you hit (AKA the surface area is the same either way). I never throw hooks to the head vertical though, but I can see how it's possible to use it in an advantageous way when thrown to the temple. The temple, being a high target, is easy to mis judge height wise. Throwing vertical gives you m ore room for error on the punch and it will still connect correctly. Using it to the jaw though means you're trying to hit more of a lateral target, so throwing it horizontal (palm down) give you more room for error. Also, as far as MMA goes, throwing them vertical makes it easier to clinch on a missed shot (like Fedor does all the time). You can throw them both with the EXACT same technique as well, the wrist is almost a completely independant joint of the elbow and if it's done correctly can it can be done with very little to no rotation on the forearm and elbow (you can throw both of them flat very easily).
> 
> EDIT: Khov, whats the first? Jab?



Jab if you're fighting a righty, cross if you're fighting a southpaw. I'm sure sonofzion would agree. :thumbsup:



edit: what Fedor does is not throw a vertical hook to clinch, he throws a casting punch, it's much different and not taught basically anywhere outside of Russia.


I can do it really well with my right hand but it's a steep curve. Until you get REALLY good at it, it's totally useless.


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