# Can a lightweight knockout a heavyweight?



## LightweightFighter (Jul 10, 2006)

If he got a free shot.

For example take someone like BJ Penn, and someone like Frank mir (I choose Frank Mir because Lesnar hasn't been KOed yet). If BJ got a free shot or two at Frank Mir would it knock hm out.

Or does size also give a better chin. I think lightweights punches aren't as heavy but I think all size chins are the same? Am I right?


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## CroCopPride (Jan 13, 2007)

a free shot?
what a stupid thread


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## giga191 (Jul 13, 2009)

I think so, just gotta hit the temple or hit the jaw in such a way that it maximizes the force transferred the skull


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

I say yes a lightweight could knock out a heavyweight with a free shot. I'm not positive but I think a HW isn't actually suppose to be able to take a hit a lot better. They can (on average) take a bigger hit but its not a huge difference. I believe the difference in average punching power is suppose to be more than ability to take a hit. Thats why you get more knockouts in higher weight classes.


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## FredFish1 (Apr 22, 2007)

I'm inclined to say no, however if he connects right on the nerve in the chin it could be lights out. I'd say it also depends on the chin, a year or two ago I would have bet Mark Hunt could take 50 free shots from any lightweight.

I'd actually love to watch a ridiculos stunt, like have brock Lesnar run forward as fast he can, and using his forward momentum any light weight gets one free shot for a flash K.O. 

I can't wait for the day Lesnar get's ko'd. Don't think it's coming any time soon though.


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## giga191 (Jul 13, 2009)

FredFish1 said:


> I can't wait for the day Lesnar get's ko'd. Don't think it's coming any time soon though.


Mir's already rocked him pretty good. Too bad Brock fell on top of him.


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## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

A free shot?

No - the increased weight includes bigger muscles and bones. Increased size normally comes from increased testosterone/ growth hormone, which also relates to a bigger chin/ jaw.

Though if the hw was James Thompson, then yes lol.


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## whynotme (May 26, 2009)

And by the law of conversation of momentum at the impact, the energy would likely transfer more to the lighter object. So even the HP of the HW is the same of the LW, the same punch to HWs face would done less damage.


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## King Koopa (Jun 28, 2009)

if the heavyweight was arlovski,then definently


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

name goes here said:


> A free shot?
> 
> No - the increased weight includes bigger muscles and bones. Increased size normally comes from increased testosterone/ growth hormone, which also relates to a bigger chin/ jaw.
> 
> Though if the hw was James Thompson, then yes lol.


Where did you get any of this infortmation? Sorry, but coming from someone who knows a little about how the body grows, and has family in medicine, your take is a bit wonky.


Increased size does not "normally" come from testosterone, but always comes growth hormone you refer to that is secreted from the pituitary gland. 

Lastly I am a bit confused how you draw the final conclusion. Really all you are saying is bigger person = bigger jaw. In reality the structure of someones facial bones have everything to do with genetics and very little to do with the size of their body. Is their head generally bigger? yes. Always? no.

Let's take Cro Cop, Fedor, and Arlovski, as examples. They are bigger than Hendo, Rampage, and Wanderlei Silva. But I think you can agree by looking at the square blocks attached to Hendo/Page/Silva's face that they call chins and agree that these guys have physically much bigger chins. Especially Cro Cop with that tiny thing he calls a jaw.

In short, being a big guy will usually make your chin bigger, but won't neccesarily give you that solid square jaw that protects from KO.

So could BJ knock out a HW? Like some have said, if it was AA or Thompson I think so.


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

Penn would drop Kimbo with just a jab, but any top 10 HW could prolly take the hit.


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## SpecC (Nov 18, 2007)

Ape City said:


> Where did you get any of this infortmation? Sorry, but coming from someone who knows a little about how the body grows, and has family in medicine, your take is a bit wonky.
> 
> 
> Increased size does not "normally" come from testosterone, but always comes growth hormone you refer to that is secreted from the pituitary gland.
> ...


+1

In addition, it's pretty obvious what the answer should be. We are all human. Unless someone has some strange mutation in which they have better brain protection, being hit on the right spot will make even the biggest people tumble. 

Now if you're asking in a fight, that's a different question. I think we'll have to call Manny Pacquiao to try this on Brock or even Carwin. Or we'll just let BJ Penn do his thing, and challenge the HWs in his squeaky voice.


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## Kodiac26170 (Jul 30, 2009)

I have knocked out guys 50 pounds heavier than me. KOed one fellow who was 85 pounds heavier than me, but he was just fat. Anyone can KO anyone with the right shot. There is clips on the internet of girls knocking out men.


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## TimeStalker (Sep 6, 2009)

Of course. All it takes is one punch on the button.


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## DahStoryTella (Jul 11, 2009)

probably.

especially if that heavyweight is named Andrei Arlovski or James Thompson.


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## TimeStalker (Sep 6, 2009)

DahStoryTella said:


> probably.
> 
> especially if that heavyweight is named Andrei Arlovski or James Thompson.


LOL. That was harsh dude.


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## turbohall (Aug 6, 2009)

If a man's jaw is opened enough and takes a hit on his chin you can knock him out. If you hit a man in the temple just right you can knock him out, hell if you hit a man in the temple hard enough and right you can kill him. Any man can knock any man out with the direct hit on the chin or temple. Now if you hit like a GIRL and trying to do it maybe not. I am sure nobody in the UFC hits like a girl. I would put money on it that Dan Henderson, Chuck Liddel, and A. Silva could knock out any Heavyweight with a good direct hit. But it goes the same way any Heavyweight could knock out that Lightweight guy.


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## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

It seems you quoted me to say, generally yes but not always so. I never said it was always so, I gave an example of a big person with a small chin. 
I imagine there are small people with large hands and feet. But typically short people have small hands and feet - tall people the reverse. Women typically have smaller hands and feet, men larger - though yes amazingly enough you can find people who are different! Along with hands and feet, other masculine features tend to be related to size. 

Also using mma fighters as examples is misleading, people attracted to mma will not be typical, plus a large proportion will be using 'supplements'. Also a small selection of people merely shows you are right, generally is not the same as always.



















Though yes, big chin v small guy could still leave the big chin guy getting knocked out. Hunt used to have an awesome chin, now not, and a person off guard is more vulnerable etc etc.



Ape City said:


> Where did you get any of this infortmation? Sorry, but coming from someone who knows a little about how the body grows, and has family in medicine, your take is a bit wonky.
> 
> 
> Increased size does not "normally" come from testosterone, but always comes growth hormone you refer to that is secreted from the pituitary gland.
> ...


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Can we at least see a LW knock out another LW a little more frequently before we start asking questions about the HW's?


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## turbohall (Aug 6, 2009)

If a woman can knockout a man then a MMA fighter could knockout anyone.

Fixed - Davisty69


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Short answer... Yes

Long answer... Yeeeeeees.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

name goes here said:


> It seems you quoted me to say, generally yes but not always so. I never said it was always so, I gave an example of a big person with a small chin.
> I imagine there are small people with large hands and feet. But typically short people have small hands and feet - tall people the reverse. Women typically have smaller hands and feet, men larger - though yes amazingly enough you can find people who are different! Along with hands and feet, other masculine features tend to be related to size.
> 
> Also using mma fighters as examples is misleading, people attracted to mma will not be typical, plus a large proportion will be using 'supplements'. Also a small selection of people merely shows you are right, generally is not the same as always.
> ...


No, I quoted you to say that the size of a fighters chin is much less important than the structure of it. 

A HW with a bad jaw structure would get knocked out more easily than a LW with perfect structure as long as the punch was equal. I am sure that a LW with a bad jaw would get knocked out more easily than a HW with a bad jaw as well.

You clearly missed the point as is evident of you posting a picture of Giant Silva, who despite his giant head has been tkod 4 times in his 2-6 record.

In your last paragraph you are addressing my actual point. That a big 300 pound guy with a badly shaped/structured chin is going to get knocked out alot more easily than Dan Henderson. But again, it isn't about sheer size, like Giant Silva, but structure, like Hendo. Squared off chin/jaw is a good thing in combat sports.

And why wouldn't I use fighters as examples? that is all we are talking about. No one asked if a 155 lb guy who can't fight can knock out a 300 pound guy who can't fight.

And where does that steroid comment come from? Because using steroids makes you less likely to have your brain rattle in your head from a shot to the jaw causing loss of balance and possibly consciousness?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

knock out I'm not sure but I am positive that they can make Bo Cantrell tap from strikes.


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## AceCombat (Mar 6, 2007)

Wow haha interesting thread..

I mean the answer to this question is surely circumstantial; Most of getting knocked out is more in the person getting hit than the person giving the punch (i.e. Do they see the punch? Is there jaw open? What is their state of mind before the punch?).

But if you take BJ, I use him specifically bacause of his shoulder : back : tricep ratio to the rest of his body, and allow him to connect flush on the jaw, temple, or especially the back of the head i'd sasy the majority of the time the fighter on the recieving end is going down even if there as big as 240 lbs.


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## Anudem (Apr 22, 2007)

ITT people suddenly becoming experts in human anatomy.

Anyways, a KO isn't determined by the weight, size, or muscle structure of the person you punch. A KO is a result of the brain "shutting off" due to trauma, in this case hitting or bouncing off the skull due to a punch or kick. There really isn't much muscles can do to prevent that, your head and neck have some decent strap muscles but nothing too strong. I do believe that bone thickness/structure has a factor in the ability to take a punch, or where you take a punch to the head greatly factor in (your forehead being way better in taking a punch than a shot in the temple).

We see more KO's in the heavier wt. classes because of the amount of energy that is transferred due to size/weight/muscle strength. 

TL/DR Yes I think a LW could potentially KO a heavyweight with a free shot (or two), but they would have to be really heavy handed.

EDIT: Fixed a typo


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Anyone with KO power can knock out anyone. There are some variables here tho for sure.


If the lightweight has a small reach and is relatively short, I don't know if they could reach the chin of a larger HW fluidly enough to connect.

If you're punching straight up at an awkward angle it'll sacrifice a lot of your power and accuracy, unless you train your punches specifically to hit someone out of your reach.


Body shots on the other hand, are probably not too effective from a LW against a HW. Too much muscle mass on the HW, and not enough weight/momentum from the LW.


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## -Jesus- (May 20, 2009)

LightweightFighter said:


> If he got a free shot.
> 
> For example take someone like BJ Penn, and someone like Frank mir (I choose Frank Mir because Lesnar hasn't been KOed yet). If BJ got a free shot or two at Frank Mir would it knock hm out.
> 
> Or does size also give a better chin. I think lightweights punches aren't as heavy but I think all size chins are the same? Am I right?


Yes, A LW can knock out a HW.
Have the HW look to the right, and have LW take an angle hit.

Knock out will occur because the neck can't strech that far, (which in fact makes you black out) Knock out.


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## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

Ape City said:


> No, I quoted you to say that the size of a fighters chin is much less important than the structure of it.
> 
> A HW with a bad jaw structure would get knocked out more easily than a LW with perfect structure as long as the punch was equal. I am sure that a LW with a bad jaw would get knocked out more easily than a HW with a bad jaw as well.
> 
> ...


Yes I did miss that I thought you were just saying person size and chin size weren't related. Because all I was saying was chin size is relevant and related to person size. Other factors that you mentioned, I didn't, positively or negatively, so I don't know why you quoted me. Except to disagree with me over things I wasn't addressing. Though your ability to strawman will win you the internet.


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## jennathebenda (Jul 24, 2009)

All you need to do is hit the "Big Kobash"


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## FredFish1 (Apr 22, 2007)

Haha some one neg repped me for no reason. Unless they were a serious brock nut hugger  Leave a reason next time coward, 

Let me reiterate. The answer is yes, a LW can KO a HW. Unlikely, but possible.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Yes. As long as the LW has heavy hands.

Because no matter how big the other guys is.

His head and brain are physically structured the same as anyone elses.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

You are underestimating the stregnth of a 170lb pound man come fight time. Your telling me if Randy Couture put his hands behind his back and said Melvin Guillard, give me your best shot Randy wouldnt get put to sleep? Of course he would.

I can think of numerous times where I have seen small tuff scrappy dudes KO these big ass mean looking dudes on the street with one shot.

It dont matter how big you are, if you get hit on the button, your out!


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

jdun11 said:


> It dont matter how big you are, if you get hit on the button, your out!



That about sums up.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

name goes here said:


> Yes I did miss that I thought you were just saying person size and chin size weren't related. Because all I was saying was chin size is relevant and related to person size. Other factors that you mentioned, I didn't, positively or negatively, so I don't know why you quoted me. Except to disagree with me over things I wasn't addressing. Though your ability to strawman will win you the internet.





name goes here said:


> A free shot?
> 
> No - the increased weight includes bigger muscles and bones. Increased size normally comes from increased testosterone/ growth hormone, which also relates to a bigger chin/ jaw.
> 
> Though if the hw was James Thompson, then yes lol.


I originally quoted you because this post, your first post, said "No" to the answer which I disagree with.

All I was pointing out is that I disagree with your view that bigger person = better chin. Jaw structure is the important factor, as we discussed with Giant Silva. He has a freaking huge chin just due to his massive size, but still get's tkod. 

You also used testosterone incorrectly as a reason for someone being bigger. It isn't. I was just correcting you, not trying to start anything.

I am not trying to argue over nothing, but you are acting like we have nothing to discuss when we disagree on the fundamental point. I don't understand.


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

Ape City said:


> I originally quoted you because this post, your first post, said "No" to the answer which I disagree with.
> 
> All I was pointing out is that I disagree with your view that bigger person = better chin. Jaw structure is the important factor, as we discussed with Giant Silva. He has a freaking huge chin just due to his massive size, but still get's tkod.
> 
> ...


I'm shocked you two are still going at it lol

But back on topic, I say YES someone in the LW devision with some heavy hands can KO a HW.

A few of you mentioned this already but I've seen guys smaller than me (and i'm not a big dude) completely KO some guys that were huge, like 6'4 buff guys in front of night clubs.


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## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

_Ape City;_
I originally quoted you because this post, your first post, said "No" to the answer which I disagree with.

*No with an exception given. A more complete answer would have been it's unlikely but can happen. But not expecting the spanish inquistion my original post was less than 4 lines.*

All I was pointing out is that I disagree with your view that bigger person = better chin. Jaw structure is the important factor, as we discussed with Giant Silva. He has a freaking huge chin just due to his massive size, but still get's tkod. 
*
You don't disagree that bigger person equals bigger chin. Which was my point. You are arguing bigger is not the same as better. I say it is a factor. Yes there are other factors, but my not mentioning them in my original 4 line post does not mean I said they don't exist. A 6'6 Hendo would be hard for a 5'7 Hendo to ko. *

You also used testosterone incorrectly as a reason for someone being bigger. It isn't. I was just correcting you, not trying to start anything.
*
Testosterone means more muscle means bigger and heavier. You are reading too much into my post to assume I meant testosterone causes chin growth*

I am not trying to argue over nothing, but you are acting like we have nothing to discuss when we disagree on the fundamental point. I don't understand.
*
We have nothing to discuss. I do think pure size alone is not the majority determinator of the ability to take a punch. I just didn't go into the other variables as I thought 1 was enough. Size does make a difference. So does past damage. So does shape. So does the attitude of the person getting hit. So does movement (if not discounted by the 'free shot'). Neck muscles probably help. So do many other factors. 
You are just quibbling making up that I am disagreeing with you, even though you posted after me. I said James Thompson would get ko'd - I was agreeing with your following post that being big alone is not a guarantee. 

MY stance is that it is hard but not impossible for a lw to ko a hw. Is that not your stance too?! 


I am in agreement with your points fool. It is not a yes no question, it is a likely/ unlikely question, we both say it is unlikely*


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

A LW can definitely knock a heavyweight out, it's just a matter of "who". I mean, if you put say.. Florian infront of a guy like Hunt(when Hunt could take a serious shot), I would not see it happening, at least not often.

However, if you slapped Melvin or B.J in there with say Randy, then a knockout I can see happening.

So, it all depends on who is in there, as some guys really don't have that much power, and some guys can really take a hard shot.


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## LightweightFighter (Jul 10, 2006)

Oofph.. I think my question was a little confusing but I found a better way to ask it. What I really mean is that:

Is a heavyweight's chin usually tougher than a lightweight's chin?

Cause we all know that size matter and that is why there are weight classes. Does size matter only because that the heavier guys will have more mass and thus can generate more power than the lighter guys or is it that AND their chins have different tolerance to punches i.e. heavyweight chin can usually take harder hits?


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

turbohall said:


> If a woman can knockout a man then a MMA fighter could knockout anyone.
> 
> Fixed - Davisty69


epic fail. that's a tranny.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

name goes here said:


> _Ape City;_
> I originally quoted you because this post, your first post, said "No" to the answer which I disagree with.
> 
> *No with an exception given. A more complete answer would have been it's unlikely but can happen. But not expecting the spanish inquistion my original post was less than 4 lines.*
> ...


1) And I disagreed with what you said, so I responded. I thought you were wrong in both your initial answer and your briefly described exception. This is a discussion forum, if you don't want to back up your points gtfo.

2)But I DO disagree with your arguement and you described why. Bigger =/= better. Now you are bringing how hard the person is getting hit into this. But whatever if it makes you happy I can agree that a 6'6 Hendo would hit harder than a 5"7 Hendo. 

3) Please go read up on testosterone. You are making yourself sound ignorant. You know nothing on the subject, clearly. 

4) One incorrectly used variable is not enough. You just picked the most commonly misunderstood variable and used that, and it was completely wrong. That is why is responded to you in the first place. You have slowly been adding to your arguement until it sounds more reasonable instead of just admitting your first post rushed and incorrect.

My stance is that too many factors come into play to use weight as the factor. Low and behold in your very last post you are getting close to saying this too. 

*Your first post could have been just as short and instead of saying "No/Weight matters/ there are exeptions" you could have said "yes/ weight doesn't matter when taking a punch/ many factors that have nothing to do with weight come into play". That is my stance. Your first post had nothing to do with that. Now you are completely altering what you said so that you can say we have nothing to discuss. The only post of yours I ever challenged was the first. 

By adding in all those other factors we have very little to discuss. But that is what I was critisizing you for in the first place! I think all those other factors are more important. If you think so too then next time why not post how you really feel the first time*.

I guess this is why I hardly post here anymore. Can't have an intelligent discussion with most members on this forums without them stooping to tossing insults around.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Floyd Mayweather supposedly beats up guys in the 250 range at the bar when they don't know who he is and they start a fight with him. I think a barrage of punches can knock out a heavyweight but not a single punch, there just isn't enough force in a single punch from a lightweight unless you hit them in the back of the head or right on the nerve in the jaw, both extremely unlikely circumstances unless you are arlovski


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## Baby Jay D. (Apr 25, 2008)

James Thompson immediately came to mind when I read the thread title. I definately think it's possible but the vast majority of HWs would take the first shot easily imo.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

rabakill said:


> Floyd Mayweather supposedly beats up guys in the 250 range at the bar when they don't know who he is and they start a fight with him. I think a barrage of punches can knock out a heavyweight but not a single punch, there just isn't enough force in a single punch from a lightweight unless you hit them in the back of the head or right on the nerve in the jaw, both extremely unlikely circumstances unless you are arlovski


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## yourtenderloins (Aug 26, 2009)

The answer is yes. 100% yes. Hit him in the jaw or temple and it's lights out. A shot to the jaw twists the head in a jerking motion that pinches a nerve in the back of the neck that temporarily cuts off blood to the brain. In other words, lights out. 

The temple is similar it just doesn't require and twisting force. There are plenty of guys that punch hard enough to take down a heavy. Hell Mike Brown at 145 could ko a guy like Gonzaga or Lesnar.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

yourtenderloins said:


> The answer is yes. 100% yes. Hit him in the jaw or temple and it's lights out. A shot to the jaw twists the head in a jerking motion that pinches a nerve in the back of the neck that temporarily cuts off blood to the brain. In other words, lights out.


Exactly. Especially considering the OP was worded "free shot".


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## chuck fan (russ) (Nov 13, 2006)

King Koopa said:


> if the heavyweight was arlovski,then definently


Haha 100% agreed, I love Arlovski but he seriously can't take a punch on that glass jaw of his.


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