# Who is the most overrated or overhyped fighter on this forum??



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

I know there are alot of guys that could be nominated for this but latley Anderson Silva is getting to get ridiculously overrated. The guy is a great fighter but he has flaws, and guess what?? He has 4 losses!! So he isnt this unbeatable monster that hes made out to be. If fights a strong grappler with good top control he will lose. Its just that he has been fed guys that he can manhandle. If he beats Henderson Ill be very impressed. But until than, I still think Hendo beats him, as does Filho and Lindland. Everyone knows matchups make fights in MMA, but with you Silva fans you seem to think he cant be beaten.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

Randy Couture, no doubt for me. Talking about him as number one p4p or even top 5, is ridiculous for me.


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## AxleZTTic (Jan 3, 2007)

filho would get destroyed. lindland might have a chance, but def. not filho <--- there's my vote for overrated fighter.


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## TeamPunishment5 (Oct 24, 2006)

BJ


He has lost to alot of names. But honestly I think he would be champ if he came in with proper conditioning no doubt.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

AxleZTTic said:


> filho would get destroyed. lindland might have a chance, but def. not filho <--- there's my vote for overrated fighter.


Filho might be overrated but he is still a bad matchup for Silva.


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## jasonc84 (Nov 9, 2007)

My vote goes to Anderson Silva, I honestly think that if Travis Lutter had made weight and his mind wasn't so all over the place he would have won that fight. He was taking Anderson down at will and i think he got caught in that triangle because his head really just wasn't in the fight due to his failure to make weight.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Filho might be overrated but he is still a bad matchup for Silva.


Its almost like you have a personal vendetta against silva.


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## dvddanny (Feb 4, 2007)

TeamPunishment5 said:


> BJ
> 
> 
> He has lost to alot of names. But honestly I think he would be champ if he came in with proper conditioning no doubt.


he has lost to GSP, Hughes, Machida, and Pulver, even if you consider that alot those are pretty much the best fighters in their weight classes. But i guess i can agree when Pen was a welterweight there was alot of undeserved nut hugging

i'd have to say filho, filho would get dominated by any top 185, it's a load of crap how high they rank this guy.


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## nickman9000 (Sep 7, 2006)

Filho and (don't hate me) Fitch.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Anderson, and BJ. It used to be Shogun, Fedor, and GSP but a lot of the fair weather Shogun fans disappered after UFC 76, Fedor hasn't fought a guy who counts in ages so some of his fans have left the forum, and GSP has almost proven that what the nuthuggers say about him is true with his performances so I wouldn't say he is overrated.

Anderson is a fighter with no great wins on his record and while his stand up game is amazing he has holes in his game and isn't unstoppable.

BJ is a guy who is really good but anyone who puts him in there top 10 LW's is overrating him.


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## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

Overrated- Fedor

Overhyped- GSP and for good reason. He's an exciting fighter



jdun11 said:


> Filho might be overrated but he is still a bad matchup for Silva.


I can't believe you can say that after his last fight


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

southpaw447 said:


> I can't believe you can say that after his last fight


Only one fight.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

southpaw447 said:


> I can't believe you can say that after his last fight


He fought a great wrestler and couldn't get him down and stay on top which is were he is dominate. 

Filho has better TD than Anderson has TDD.


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## MMAmatt (Apr 8, 2007)

southpaw447 said:


> Overrated- Fedor
> 
> Overhyped- GSP and for good reason. He's an exciting fighter
> 
> ...


Now that almost ever Pride fighter has been utterly destroyed, i can almost admit that Fedor might be over rated, but his record does stand, he always looks impressive, so i cant say your right on that one...


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## ean6789 (Nov 19, 2006)

The first thing i thought when i saw this thread was that this had Machida's name written all over it definitely. Damone has almost singlehandedly created the bandwagon for machida and the hype and even mention of him deserving a titleshot place machida as one of the most overrated fighters around.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Machida having more votes than Penn just boggles my mind. Machida's looked unstoppable ever since coming to the UFC. BJ Penn is 1-2 since coming back, and that one win was against a 145'er. Come on now, people.


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## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

GMW said:


> Only one fight.


Yes but in that one fight, he was getting manhandled on his feet and on the ground.

If that had been Anderson he wouldn't have lasted one round


Lets also remeber that his fight before that with Doerkson was originally supposed to be against Frank Trigg. And Doerkson took the fight in short notice. No only that but Filho's striking was Hermes Franca-esq and really had no form behind it just wild clubbing.

Chael had time to prepare and look what happened.

I think for the most part Filho leaving BTT was a mistake and now relying on backyard boxing and jiu jitsu and I don't think it's going to help him for very much longer. Sooner or later a better guy is going to kick him off the top.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

i have to go with BJ. but for BJ fans that get offended , there is seldom a bad fighter that gets overhyped/rated on this forum but of them i have to go with BJ


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

B.J. Penn for me I mean i love the dude and he has alot of natural talent but as Damone mentioned he hasn't done much lately to deserve the nut hugging that has been atatched to him as of late. I personally think Stevenson may expose him for being alittle old and out of the game but maybe not i dont know it's just that his performance against Jens didnt look that great to me.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

MDMA said:


> So who won last weeks episode of TUF?
> 
> Oh that's right you just started watching at TUF 6.
> 
> I suggest you go back to watching WWE not UFC with this statement, ******* noob.


 Dude get off his nuts and dont call anyone a noob when you only have 6 posts yourself, if you dont agree with his statement thats fine but dont be an ass about it when he wasnt even speaking to you.:confused03:


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

Tough call, some good choices on that list. I'm going with Silva, but a solid case can be made for Fedor, GSP, BJ, and Machida. The Spider has only fought two people in the UFC and has several losses on his record, Fedor hasn't fought anyone worth mentioning in a long time, GSP has a couple of losses in the last two years, and Machida still hasn't fought for a belt. Tough call, but I go with Anderson Silva.


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## baphamet (Jul 12, 2006)

even though i like him as a fighter a lot and think he could be one of the best in the world, it has to be fedor.

he just doesn't fight anyone worth a crap anymore and some of his best wins were against fighters who have not done so hot in the UFC.

yes he is one of the best in my book but from the way a lot of fans here put him on a pedestal, just because he hasn't lost in japan, that makes him over-rated.

if the pride guys were coming over here and dominating that would be one thing but they clearly are not.

it would not surprise me if fedor came over here and lost, which is why i think it was a smart move for fedor not to sign with the UFC.

he probably saw what was happening and was like **** that! why tarnish his legacy from what it is now? he cant go nowhere but down.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

cplmac said:


> Tough call, some good choices on that list. I'm going with Silva, but a solid case can be made for Fedor, GSP, BJ, and Machida. The Spider has only fought two people in the UFC and has several losses on his record, Fedor hasn't fought anyone worth mentioning in a long time, GSP has a couple of losses in the last two years, and Machida still hasn't fought for a belt. Tough call, but I go with Anderson Silva.


Silva has fought Lutter, Franklin, Leben, and Marquardt in the UFC thats much more than two but i do agree with others in saying that Hendo and Lindland would mess him up bigtime.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Machida for me. The guy is deserving of praise no doubt, but i think currently the hype is a bit much considering he hasn't fought anyone i would consider a real test since Franklin in 2003.


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## GKY (Jun 3, 2007)

I can't say Fedor is overrated. In a ring I would easily say he will make anyone in the UFC look like a child. He knows how to use his abilitys and adapt them with his enviroment, I don't see how he is overrated because of that. The reason people say he is unbeatable is because he has not only beaten everyone he has faced, he made then all..even the great Nog look like children. So I can't say he is overrated because I havn't seen anyone prove it yet.

I actually went with Shogun. The reason I did this isn't actually because of the Griffin fight, but rather he has a very simmilar style to many fighters. He is a strong chinch fighter, with great BJJ, but will be defeated by any great striker with good TDD (like Chuck) or any great wrestler with good sub defence(like Tito). Since I find more then one flaw, I have to say Shogun, since styles make matches afterall.


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

BJ and Machida for me, but I voted Machida. People are saying how he is going to totally going to run through the LHW division and how he doesn't have a bad matchup and how he is going to win. I mean some people even wanted him to have a title shot after beating Nakamura. The guy isn't undeafeatable, like it or not, Ortiz is a bad matchup for him.


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## bigaza (Feb 10, 2007)

i thought i was the only one who sees machida as overated but judging from the poll i was wrong. i know he has a great record and all, i just dont find him exciting 2 watch, thats why im thinking him vs ortiz is gonna be a snoozfest. they might as well grab a pillow and sleep in the octagon, that would be more exciting haha.


seriously tho i just think hes a really "careful" fighter which doesnt make for an entertaining macthup in my eyes.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Damone said:


> Machida having more votes than Penn just boggles my mind. Machida's looked unstoppable ever since coming to the UFC. BJ Penn is 1-2 since coming back, and that one win was against a 145'er. Come on now, people.


Ok but BJ is 155lber and he gave ur boy Machida a good fight. Didnt BJ win that first round?? I think he did. Machida is good and deserves the hype dont get me wrong. But I dont think you never give BJ enough credit. You say he is 1-2 but look at how he lost those 2 fights and who they were to.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I don't praise his fight with BJ for a reason and yes, jdun11, he won that first round. Machida looked really pudgy and really uninspired. Ever since coming to the UFC, he has looked great. Losing the pudge and the unibrow, plus growing out the karate kid hair, has done him wonders. Oh, and hooking up with an awesome camp. 

But come on, jdun11, Penn is 1-2 since returning.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Machida is still relatively unproven in the UFC though, where Bj has already made his mark by being a title holder and also beating some very, very tough opponents. Machida's best win in the UFC was his last fight vs a fighter with less than 10 fights. I think Machida is very good and has the best chance of winning the UFC LHW title, but he is definitely overrated on this forum.


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

Machida, before you flame me I was going to put Linland but I don't see him hyped much on this site.

Until Machida wins a belt (and most of the other fighters listed have) he is suspect. I think Machida is one of the most interesting LHW fighters and I've become a real fan of his.

Without him the division looses much of its "unknown" factor.

He has the potential to be champ but until he fights a Rampage, Shogun, Liddell, Wandy, etc and beats them convincingly, his full potential is unknown.:dunno:


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## GKY (Jun 3, 2007)

cplmac said:


> Tough call, some good choices on that list. I'm going with Silva, but a solid case can be made for *Fedor, GSP,* BJ, and Machida.


Please go right ahead


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

I think we can make a good case against Fedor. GSP is a much tougher one after his last fight.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

I think a fighter becomes overrated when excuses are made for losses, even though they may be legit. Everytime Penn's fights with Hughes and St. Pierre come up people always bring up the fact that a.)make a case for the split in the gsp fight b.) gassed in both or c.) injured against hughes (which is true). Same can be said for Couture and GSP's personal problems and Silva's injury against Lutter. Even Shogun not training enough and being hurt. That's what I hate.

I think its Fedor for me. Only because since Cro Cop he's been picking his opponents and they haven't been really worthy of fighting the number one hw in the world. Hunt maybe, but he was coming off a loss and has a very suspect ground game. I'm not saying he doesn't have skills or is all hype, but you have to test yourself. If this keeps up he'll be no different than Rickson Gracie.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I voted Fedor, my reason being is Fedor hasnt done anything in along time and yet people still talk about how great he is rather than how great he was in all honesty I feel until he does something to prove he still has it I'm just not buying it anymore especially at the rapid pace MMA fighters have been evolving .


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Filho might be overrated but he is still a bad matchup for Silva.


Yeah, he didn't look good in his last fight but his TD's and top control would give Anderson Silva fits. Silva does have a good guard and may not get submitted or finished, but he would get controlled if he got put on his back.



nickman9000 said:


> Filho and (don't hate me) Fitch.


I'd agree with you on Fitch, even though he's my boy at 170. His wrestling credentials aren't as good as everyone makes them out to be. He does have solid striking and great sub defense, but I think if he fights Hughes, Kos, or GSP...he'll spend the night on his back.



Damone said:


> Machida having more votes than Penn just boggles my mind. Machida's looked unstoppable ever since coming to the UFC. BJ Penn is 1-2 since coming back, and that one win was against a 145'er. Come on now, people.


Yeah, this astounds me too. How anyone is still trying to punch holes in Machida's game is beyond me. Tito isn't a very good match up for him and it will answer more questions, but I thought the Sokky fight would do that. People were like, "If Machida gets past Sokky, I'll buy in." And now, some of those same people are like, "He looked good vs. Sokky but now he has to fight Tito." Doesn't make sense to me.



-------------

As for this Forum, BJ Penn. Every Rankings thread people are asking where he is. Well, he's nowhere near them because he's 1-2 in his last fights and hasn't had a meaningful fight at LW in 3-4 years.

I understand he lost to Hughes and GSP, great fighters. But Rankings are based on fights, not skill. They're based on what you do, not what people believe you can do. :thumbsup:


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

Fedor for me he hasn't fought anybody lately and could of lost to Lindland if he didn't grab the rope. I think Machida will probably have a lot of success against strikers but when he starts facing GnP guys I think he will start losing.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

jasonc84 said:


> My vote goes to Anderson Silva, I honestly think that if Travis Lutter had made weight and his mind wasn't so all over the place he would have won that fight. He was taking Anderson down at will and i think he got caught in that triangle because his head really just wasn't in the fight due to his failure to make weight.


Why are down playing silva's skills as if the only reason silva won was because lutter wasn't all there?? HAHA maybe the fact that silva's bjj is better than lutter's thats why he got caught in the triangle. 

If your going to bring up that lutter had problems making weight i will bring up that silva had double knee surgury 6 weeks before the fight. HE still won!! so why are so many people hating on him??


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

Damone said:


> But come on, jdun11, Penn is 1-2 since returning.


A split decision loss to GSP doesn't warrant credit? And a fight which he took on short notice against Hughes, a fight he was clearly winning the first 2 rounds, until whatever caused his injury. Yeah... shameful losses, clearly shows he is over rated. OMG! Terry77 predicted what I was going to say! Terry77, are you like, psychic!?!?!

But my vote went to Machida for reasons listed by other users.


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## MMAmatt (Apr 8, 2007)

im suprised how many Fedor votes there are.. ive been arguing that Fedor isnt #1 now that hes not in a big org. but to say hes overrated is something completely different...


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

BJ Penn is like God to many around here, the guy hasn't done anything in so long and so many people think he deserves to be in so many rankings.

Couture is pretty over-rated. I mean, coming back from 2 KO's, then winning 2 mediocre fights suddenly warrants you a "Couture is god" argument. I need more from this dude.

I think Faber also needs a much tougher challenge to live up to the praise.

I truly don't think Filho is over-rated. Once someone doesn't get armbarred and beats the dude, then well talk.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

plazzman said:


> BJ Penn is like God to many around here, the guy hasn't done anything in so long and so many people think he deserves to be in so many rankings.
> 
> Couture is pretty over-rated. I mean, coming back from 2 KO's, then winning 2 mediocre fights suddenly warrants you a "Couture is god" argument. I need more from this dude.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on Couture and Faber. At this point I am starting to not be able to stand Faber.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

BJ, he's just so sloppy whenever I watch him fight and IMO he isnt all that good.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

I dont know how anyone can say Faber is overrated. Noone has dominated at his weight class like Faber. This dude finishes every fight he gets in. His only loss is to a great fighter at a higher weight class. Faber is a pound for pound stud. If he was 25 pounds heavier and 3 inches taller he would beat Anderson Silva's ass. So there goes ur pound for pound argument on Silva. Could you imagine a guy with Faber's skill set at 185??? That fighter would tear Silva up. Therefore Faber > Silva p4p


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

TraMaI said:


> BJ, he's just so sloppy whenever I watch him fight and IMO he isnt all that good.


How long have you been watching MMA?


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> How long have you been watching MMA?


lol, don't know why, but that just made me laugh.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

2 years? Not ALL that long but I've seen most of BJs fights. He seems like he comes in unprepaired alot and he has a lot of BJJ tech, but sometimes he just looks sloppy... might also be because he gassed :\


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

I am glad that people are with me about Machida.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> 2 years? Not ALL that long but I've seen most of BJs fights. He seems like he comes in unprepaired alot and he has a lot of BJJ tech, but sometimes he just looks sloppy... might also be because he gassed :\


Well is he isnt know for his cardio or work ethic so... But hopefully with that interview that was posted Penn has changed that.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

jdun are you crazy. Faber has 1, I repeat 1 good win. He beat Curran which was impressive but I don't see this great skill set that is better than Anderson. His stand up is decent, His ground game is very good, his wrestling is very good, and he pushes a great pace thats not a amazing skill set in fact I can come up with many guys better.


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

TraMaI said:


> 2 years? Not ALL that long but I've seen most of BJs fights. He seems like he comes in unprepaired alot and he has a lot of BJJ tech, but sometimes he just looks sloppy... might also be because he gassed :\


Well if you consider that PJ Penn became the first non-Brazilian to win a gold medal in the black belt division of the Mundial World jijitsu Championships held in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil after training for only 3 years, gave the two top middle weights (in my opinion) of all time (15 pounds above his natural fighting weight) the battles of their lives (ever see what Matt or GSPs faces looked like after the fight) I guess hes just and average joe (he also went 3 rounds at 205 with Mucheda, beat Hughes the 1st time and beat Matt Serra, the current champ).

BJ fights because he likes to fight unlike many other fighters, he comes from a very influental wealthy Hawaiian family, money is NOT an issue with BJ.


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## Anudem (Apr 22, 2007)

Where is a Liddell button?


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

Randy Courture easily.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> I dont know how anyone can say Faber is overrated. Noone has dominated at his weight class like Faber. This dude finishes every fight he gets in. His only loss is to a great fighter at a higher weight class. Faber is a pound for pound stud. If he was 25 pounds heavier and 3 inches taller he would beat Anderson Silva's ass. So there goes ur pound for pound argument on Silva. Could you imagine a guy with Faber's skill set at 185??? That fighter would tear Silva up. Therefore Faber > Silva p4p


Faber is good, but come on. He has one stand out win against Curran and some OK wins vs. an on-again off-again Krazy Horse, Charlie Valencia, and a still green Chance Farrar. He needs to be tested more before you can consider him a P4P stud.


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## fernando234 (Nov 19, 2007)

couture for me. look at his record - its not great. hes won 2 fights and hes considered better then feder by some? lol. i think randy's personality which alot of ppl like, made them place his fighting ability above what it really is.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

How is Fedor overrated? For beating everyone?


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## SuzukS (Nov 11, 2006)

Gotta go with Fedor, the fact people were listing him on top of the p4p 2007 rankings is mind-boggling when he has one of the less impressive fighters of 2007. Wins over a middleweight (talented or not, Lindland is a middleweight) and a fighter with one pro-MMA fight isn't exactly credible, the fact it is Fedor makes it even worse. Anyway, yeah, Fedor.



anudem said:


> Where is a Liddell button?


After UFC 71 and 76 his presence on the forum is nearly non-existent.


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## capt_america (Apr 16, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> How is Fedor overrated? For beating everyone?


maybe by picking his opponents..if he will not fight barnett in his next fight i will to agree with them.


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## vader (Sep 16, 2007)

A couple of months ago I would say Houston Alexander.

Now I say Lyoto. (He's good, but not that good.)


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## Z-man-mma-fan (Mar 4, 2007)

Machida takes this one easily.. Fedor is definitely not overrated, because he actually performs up to the standards people set him at. A few wins over shitty/mediocre fighters and people are acting like Machida is the baby Jeesus of MMA.. this guy is a joke.


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## Z-man-mma-fan (Mar 4, 2007)

SuzukS said:


> Gotta go with Fedor, the fact people were listing him on top of the p4p 2007 rankings is mind-boggling when he has one of the less impressive fighters of 2007. Wins over a middleweight (talented or not, Lindland is a middleweight) and a fighter with one pro-MMA fight isn't exactly credible, the fact it is Fedor makes it even worse. Anyway, yeah, Fedor.
> 
> 
> 
> After UFC 71 and 76 his presence on the forum is nearly non-existent.


If we rated fighters over only one year in their carreers that would be completely retarded. Its not for what he did in 2007 that he is so highly regarded for.

If you are new to MMA, go to YouTube and watch some of his fights before 2007. He dismantled the best heavyweight division at the time, completely. Not only that, but hes shown to have a level of resilience that so far no other heavyweight has shown. If Sylvia was dropped on his neck like Fedor was, he would be in a grave right now.


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## capt_america (Apr 16, 2007)

how can an undefeated guy who beat bj, franklin, nakamura, sokky be a joke? true hes overhyped in this forum but skillwise the guy is not overrated. They say he hasnt faught top opponents, but the real thing is he did. he made those tough opponents look like a clueless in those fights.


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## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

I'm going to go with Josh Koscheck before the GSP fight. I'm pretty sure though that Brock Lesnar is the most overrated right now, but since nobody's ever seen him fight a real opponent, it's impossible to really know yet, I guess.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

Z-man-mma-fan said:


> Machida takes this one easily.. Fedor is definitely not overrated, because he actually performs up to the standards people set him at. A few wins over shitty/mediocre fighters and people are acting like Machida is the baby Jeesus of MMA.. this guy is a joke.


Yeah...the undefeated guy with a Top 10 win and another Top 20 win is a joke. That same joke that beat Rich Franklin and a game BJ Penn. Get real. :thumbsdown:


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

Damone said:


> Machida having more votes than Penn just boggles my mind. Machida's looked unstoppable ever since coming to the UFC. BJ Penn is 1-2 since coming back, and that one win was against a 145'er. Come on now, people.



agreed, and as for silva - pointing out his four losses or a fight from years ago adds no weight, your only as good as your last fight(s)

maybe Randy if anyone on that list....


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## Cartheron (Sep 5, 2007)

The Legend said:


> Fedor for me he hasn't fought anybody lately and could of lost to Lindland if he didn't grab the rope. I think Machida will probably have a lot of success against strikers but when he starts facing GnP guys I think he will start losing.


Could of lost to Liindland if he didn't grab the rope? :laugh: Yeah, 'cos Fedor's guard and ground game sux that bad. He's never submitted anyone from the bottom or reversed anyone on the ground. Wait a sec. . . :confused03: 

Anyway it's Couture for me. When you lose to guys like Enson Inoue and Valintijn Overeem you are not the greatest ever. Similarly when you get beaten at your own weight class and a lower weight class when you drop down doesn't equal the greatest ever in my book. :confused03:


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

Emericanaddict said:


> Silva has fought Lutter, Franklin, Leben, and Marquardt in the UFC thats much more than two but i do agree with others in saying that Hendo and Lindland would mess him up bigtime.


Yeah I don't count Lutter and I forgot about Leben. And Hendo or Lindland would mess him up.


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## leew11k (Nov 19, 2006)

on the list id say randy coming back from 2 kos then moves up to hw to win 2 in a row and everbody saying he can beat fedor,nog,he is no god.
cant belive most people are saying machida he just beat a guy who demolished 2 world class fighters in just a few mins and machida pretty much destroyed sokky.even if machida beats a guy like tito i still dont think he will get the recognition he deserves.


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

JWP said:


> agreed, and as for silva - pointing out his four losses or a fight from years ago adds no weight, your only as good as your last fight(s)
> 
> maybe Randy if anyone on that list....


Well make up your mind, your either only as good as your last fight or not, but what you just said was a total contradiction.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Couture is overrated for me. That isn't to say he isn't good, he is and he has beaten some quality opponents but when you consider his w-l record, dropping down a division and still losing fights, and winning the title against a cripple then he looks less impressive than most people make him out to be.

Look at his record compared to other UFC champs.

GSP 15-2
Jackson 28-6
Silva 20-4
Couture 16-8

Etc.

I don't think most people realize that Silvia shouldn't have been fighting at all when Randy beat him. I suspect that because Randy is a nice guy and Tim is a dick that it gets overlooked but Silvia had a herniated disc in his back, _the exact same injury that Serra just pulled out of a fight with_. 

Any injury to your core (ribs, back) is a devastating injury because it affects everything you do. By comparison a broken arm (ZOMG Randy beat Gonzaga even with a broken arm!) is a trivial injury, especially if the bone isn't displaced. Silvia didn't throw a single kick in 5 rounds against Couture, that isn't normal for him. I think Silvia would easily beat Couture if they fought when Silvia was healthy and Randy would have gone back into retirement.

Drogo


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Couture and Shogun. Couture because people make him #1 just because he wins when people don't expect him too. I mean he's awesome, but people seem to forget the mad raping guys like Liddell and Ricco have put on him. And yeah, his win/loss ratio is 2:1 which isn't that impressive for a top fighter (granted most of his losses were top compeition) .. he's great and can beat pretty much anyone on his night, but people on this forum rate him as some sort of god.

Shogun is another bust.. I remember people rated him as the #1 LHW in the world. Right before his debut, people here were laughing at how none of the UFC guys would ever win again.. Shogun would just run through the division. He was the biggest disappointment of all the pride superstars IMO. At least CroCop dominated a mid-level HW in Eddie Sanchez, Hendo and Wandy put up wars of fights, and Nog scraped through a victory. Shogun went from being the #1 LHW straight to being dominated by a mid-level fighter coming off a devastating loss himself. Noone could be more overhyped.


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## joho5 (Jul 16, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> I know there are alot of guys that could be nominated for this but latley Anderson Silva is getting to get ridiculously overrated. The guy is a great fighter but he has flaws, and guess what?? He has 4 losses!! So he isnt this unbeatable monster that hes made out to be. If fights a strong grappler with good top control he will lose. Its just that he has been fed guys that he can manhandle. If he beats Henderson Ill be very impressed. But until than, I still think Hendo beats him, as does Filho and Lindland. Everyone knows matchups make fights in MMA, but with you Silva fans you seem to think he cant be beaten.


like nate the great, or travis lutter.

these are normally strong grapplers that have good top control. yes, he has lost, but not in a long while. nobody says he CANT be beaten, but he has just walked through people that were tough level fighters. all of a sudden since he beats them, they are now shit. rich was a champion, now he is shit. travis lutter was a submission specialist, now he is a dehydrated blob that cant make weight. chris leben had an iron chin, now he is just a piece of shit. just understand that anderson silva is a very good fighter that is very long, quick, technical, and elusive. having those traits makes a good fighter and thats why he wins. im not saying hendo will not win this fight, but the only way i think he can win is by making the fight very boring.


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## PrideFan123 (Apr 8, 2007)

Machida is a bit overhyped in my opinion. I'm excited to see a good fighter begin to emerge, but we haven't seen him face a seasoned wrestler or any top competition in the LHW division and people are talking about him taking the belt this year. He deserves praise no doubt, but I think he gets a little more credit than he deserves.

BJ and Couture are who I would say are overrated. Couture is a talented HW, but I don't understand how people would consider him a top p4p fighter. As for BJ, I think he's a very well-rounded fighter who knows his MMA, but I think he's overrated and undeserving of a title shot considering his last fights.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> I know there are alot of guys that could be nominated for this but latley Anderson Silva is getting to get ridiculously overrated. The guy is a great fighter but he has flaws, and guess what?? He has 4 losses!! So he isnt this unbeatable monster that hes made out to be. If fights a strong grappler with good top control he will lose. Its just that he has been fed guys that he can manhandle. If he beats Henderson Ill be very impressed. But until than, I still think Hendo beats him, as does Filho and Lindland. Everyone knows matchups make fights in MMA, but with you Silva fans you seem to think he cant be beaten.


Yeah Anderson has four losses.. but i'd say realistically, he has only two. His last loss was a DQ for kicking the shit out of Okami's face with an illegal kick and knocking him out.. if anything it makes Anderson more dangerous, depending on the rules of the venue. His other loss before that was by "Flying scizzor heel hook" by Ryo Chonan. If you haven't seen that, you need to.. it is the most insane submission ever seen in MMA. More to the point though, it was lucky as hell for Chonan to land that .. 9 times out of 10, he'd just fall on his ass and get stomped. Chonan was getting completely dominated before that.. this loss again does not demonstrate a vulnerability in Silva's game.

That leaves his two other losses.. one of them was his mma DEBUT all the way back in 2000! IMO a debut is the least reflective bout of an mma fighter's potential, the guy has no real experience and has fight jitters from something completely new to him. Leaving only his 2003 loss to Takase via triangle.. that's the only real loss we can consider as a vulnerability, and that was 4 1/2 years and 13 fights ago. Since then, he has never been in the least bit of trouble in a fight and has ended all but two of them in a devastating fashion. Beating down all the top contenders in his division. Yeah, he's definitely overrated. The only reason he's even on this list is because he's the guy to hate right now for being so damn good.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

PrideFan123 said:


> Machida is a bit overhyped in my opinion. I'm excited to see a good fighter begin to emerge, but we haven't seen him face a seasoned wrestler or any top competition in the LHW division and people are talking about him taking the belt this year. He deserves praise no doubt, but I think he gets a little more credit than he deserves.


machida is a really awesome fighter but people on this forum were taking it way to far despite him not facing a top 10 lhw (this is b4 the sokky fight)....damone was saying he was the 2nd lhw rankings wise prior to his last fight which is outright ludicrus...fact is you can't make a statement like that until he fights a top 10 205er..and he did...he stopped him...now the claim that he is the #2 ranked guy in the world is feasible (debateable whether it's correct tho)...


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> Chonan was getting completely dominated before that.. this loss again does not demonstrate a vulnerability in Silva's game.


Have *you* seen that fight? Or are you just looking at his record? Chonan was not getting dominated by any means, nor was he even really losing. That fight was very close going into the 3rd round. Chonan was also working that leg with inside and outside leg kicks the entire fight


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

As much as a respect the guy, Fedor gets my vote. Tied with Couture.


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## Tommy08 (Feb 2, 2007)

Anderson Sylva is not overrated. His losses were quite a while ago- and no it seems he has gained enough expewrience and skill to really coe out.

Couture's record is what it is because he switched from wrestling to MMA without ever really training for it. His game has improved incredibly from where he started, and he is nowhere near the same fighter.

So I don't think those 2 are overrated.

I think Fedor is overhyped in this forum. 0 losses- sure, but he hasn't fought anyone until recently, and before that he hasn't fought anyone decent in a long time.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

I like the guy but I have to go with BJ Penn. He's fun as hell to watch, but isn't consistent enough to be what everyone thinks he is.

I also agree with Machida. While I do think he is overrated, I also think he has the potential to be a monster. Were he to stop fighting for points and a decision, and develop a tactic that could finish his opponents, he could be a force. I say this because he is so smart at making a gameplan to defeat his opponents after 3 rounds that were he to focus that energy on finishing a fight, has the potential to be Randy Couture like. Like Couture, though, this strategy has a higher potential for being KO'd. But hey, you've got to lay it all on the line if you want to gain a strong fan following.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> Have *you* seen that fight? Or are you just looking at his record? Chonan was not getting dominated by any means, nor was he even really losing. That fight was very close going into the 3rd round. Chonan was also working that leg with inside and outside leg kicks the entire fight


Actually I have.. but you're right, maybe dominated was too strong a choice of wrods. He was still clearly losing though, Anderson WAS getting the better of the stand-up.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Liddellianenko said:


> Actually I have.. but you're right, maybe dominated was too strong a choice of wrods. He was still clearly losing though, Anderson WAS getting the better of the stand-up.


Ehh, I think the fight was even before Chonan busted out the heel hook. If anything Chonan was winning, no way was Silva dominating.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

kds13 said:


> Faber is good, but come on. He has one stand out win against Curran and some OK wins vs. an on-again off-again Krazy Horse, Charlie Valencia, and a still green Chance Farrar. He needs to be tested more before you can consider him a P4P stud.


I cant wait till he get shis showdown with Kid. I really cant wait.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Ehh, I think the fight was even before Chonan busted out the heel hook. If anything Chonan was winning, no way was Silva dominating.


From Josh Barnett:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUltqxzYOb4



> *Do you want to return to Pride or do want to stay in UFC?*
> I don't want to come back to Pride. I already proved everything there. PrideFC didn't want me there, so for me now I am in the right place, showing my job. I think that I already did everything in Japan. If I had to return to somewhere, I would return to K-1.
> 
> *You had already faced Chonan and you saw how his game is. What do you think about his fight against Paulão?*
> ...


Source: http://www.subfighter.com/article2563.html


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## Cartheron (Sep 5, 2007)

Barnett is talking crap there. Apart from the first two minutes Chonan was winning that fight everywhere it went. You even hear it from Bas and Mauro (the commentary you hear there is from the first two minutes) who are really surprised that Chonan is taking Silva to school with leg kicks, GnP (LOL btw) and trading standing up. He was going to win the decision easily. 

The only reason people say that Chonan turned it around with a miracle submission is to hype that submission, because it was so fkin crazy.


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Anderson, and BJ. It used to be Shogun, Fedor, and GSP but a lot of the fair weather Shogun fans disappered after UFC 76, Fedor hasn't fought a guy who counts in ages so some of his fans have left the forum, and GSP has almost proven that what the nuthuggers say about him is true with his performances so I wouldn't say he is overrated.
> 
> Anderson is a fighter with no great wins on his record and while his stand up game is amazing he has holes in his game and isn't unstoppable.
> 
> BJ is a guy who is really good but anyone who puts him in there top 10 LW's is overrating him.


I agree in regards to the shogun comments. The comments were getting ridiculous and then 76 came along and haven't heard a peep.


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

Cartheron said:


> Barnett is talking crap there. Apart from the first two minutes Chonan was winning that fight everywhere it went. You even hear it from Bas and Mauro (the commentary you hear there is from the first two minutes) who are really surprised that Chonan is taking Silva to school with leg kicks, GnP (LOL btw) and trading standing up. He was going to win the decision easily.
> 
> The only reason people say that Chonan turned it around with a miracle submission is to hype that submission, because it was so fkin crazy.


Uhh watch that fight again...you couldn't be more wrong.


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

In regards to people talking about Chonan winning that fighting before landing that sub...watch this please, and listen as well.

http://www.mmatko.com/anderson-silva-vs-ryo-chonan-video-the-flying-scissor-heel-hook/

I just don't get how you can say Chonan was anywhere close to winning that fight before that.

What reason does Barnett have to not give his honest opinion of the fight?


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## Cartheron (Sep 5, 2007)

All_In_GSP said:


> In regards to people talking about Chonan winning that fighting before landing that sub...watch this please, and listen as well.
> 
> http://www.mmatko.com/anderson-silva-vs-ryo-chonan-video-the-flying-scissor-heel-hook/
> 
> I just don't get how you can say Chonan was anywhere close to winning that fight before that.


lol that's the same snippet and commentary as the above link. So see my comment above, Barnett is talking bs to hype the submission. I have the _whole_ fight on my pc. ;p


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

I have watched the fight plenty of times and silva had more offensive then ryo had and was pushing the pace. Chonan was backing up alot and didn't land many offensive strikes except for leg kicks.


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## Cartheron (Sep 5, 2007)

yorT said:


> I have watched the fight plenty of times and silva had more offensive then ryo had and was pushing the pace. Chonan was backing up alot and didn't land many offensive strikes except for leg kicks.


Then maybe you need to watch it again. 

Someone kindly uploaded it here


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

kds13 said:


> Faber is good, but come on. He has one stand out win against Curran and some OK wins vs. an on-again off-again Krazy Horse, Charlie Valencia, and a still green Chance Farrar. He needs to be tested more before you can consider him a P4P stud.


I would have to agree with both of you in a way. IMO Faber is a rare talent, and I event put him at 5 on my P4P rankings that I later thought of reconsidering...because he hasn't had the same tests a lot of the other fighters I had selected had. A MW with his skills would be a bad match-up for A. Silva IMO, but to say if he gained 25 pounds and 3 inches that he would beat him, and therefore is a better p4p fighter doesn't hold much merit. I really don't see the validity in saying either of them are over-hyped: Silva doesn't choose who the UFC puts in front of him (if they happen to choose fighters he picks apart, how is that any fault of his own?) and Faber can't be held accountable that he hasn't had the same kind of tests as many other fighters have.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

Cartheron said:


> Then maybe you need to watch it again.
> 
> Someone kindly uploaded it here


I have watched it, the strikes chonan was doing was not doing as much damage as silvas. Chonan was more defensive than offensive, and if he was winning why would he go for a submission that prob only works 5% of the time if that?

I watch the fight with no sound so the commentators don't sway my decision on the fight.


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

Cartheron said:


> Then maybe you need to watch it again.
> 
> Someone kindly uploaded it here


I still don't see why what Josh had to gain by hyping that fight up, or how Chonan WON - you seem to only talk of him neutralizing Anderson - that isn't winning! 

But just for you I will watch this video for about the 90th time when I get home!


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

This fight depends entirely on which scoring system you use IMO. If it's UFC, I say Chonan would've had 1 and maybe 2. But it wasn't UFC...

Round 1: That round appeared even to me. IMO Chonan didn't do much at all. He had top position more than Silva but in the end his face appeared more battered. And Silva getting the yellow-card was pretty confusing...if anything it was Chonan not working enough for a finish. The combo by silva in the beginning was pretty tight though, and those were definitely the most effective strikes of the match.

Round 2: Silva starts with bombs. Just because Chonan can take a punch, doesn't mean they aren't being delivered effectively. Good striking and solid knee by Silva, but he is taken down. Silva is landing just as many strikes as Chonan here, and is going for subs. I'd give this round to Silva. 

Round 3: Again better striking from Silva. Chonan has one hell of a chin and some nice leg kicks. And there's the crazy submission.

IMO Chonan wasn't winning that fight - only offense he scored was top-control with very few solid strikes and leg-kicks, but you're right, Barnett did over-hype that for some reason. And honestly, minus the two strings of combinations where silva smelled blood and wanted a finish, he didn't do that much to win the fight either.


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## FlawlessFighter (Jan 6, 2008)

it has to be Couture,im sure hes a great guy but he is problly the most successful fighter with 8 losses, which just shouldnt happen


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## Cartheron (Sep 5, 2007)

All_In_GSP said:


> This fight depends entirely on which scoring system you use IMO. If it's UFC, I say Chonan would've had 1 and maybe 2. But it wasn't UFC...
> 
> Round 1: That round appeared even to me. IMO Chonan didn't do much at all. He had top position more than Silva but in the end his face appeared more battered. And Silva getting the yellow-card was pretty confusing...if anything it was Chonan not working enough for a finish. The combo by silva in the beginning was pretty tight though, and those were definitely the most effective strikes of the match.
> 
> ...


Indeed, it's a pretty meh fight. I just hate it when people say Chonan is getting owned then does some miracle sub to win. I would have scored it for Chonan, but it's neither here nor there. Crap all damage is being done really, I figure slightly more to Silva because he is forced to change stance due to leg damage and Chonan doesn't really seem to bothered about being tagged on the face a little. Then factoring the yellow card I see it as Chonan winning. Then comes the bad-ass submission which stops it from going to the judges anyways.


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## bigaza (Feb 10, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> How is Fedor overrated? For beating everyone?


his competition was not as good as randy coutures, he hasnt faced the top notch fighters that would make me beleive he is the best fighter. [with the exception of cro cop back then]


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

bigaza said:


> his competition was not as good as randy coutures, he hasnt faced the top notch fighters that would make me beleive he is the best fighter. [with the exception of cro cop back then]


So you're saying Couture has faced tougher competition than Fedor? Or do you mean as of late?



> This fight depends entirely on which scoring system you use IMO. If it's UFC, I say Chonan would've had 1 and maybe 2. But it wasn't UFC...
> 
> Round 1: That round appeared even to me. IMO Chonan didn't do much at all. He had top position more than Silva but in the end his face appeared more battered. And Silva getting the yellow-card was pretty confusing...if anything it was Chonan not working enough for a finish. The combo by silva in the beginning was pretty tight though, and those were definitely the most effective strikes of the match.
> 
> ...


Nice write up, but I think you're leaving out some crucial parts, such as Chonan dodging like 99 headkicks, and also landing a bunch of low kicks himself. A. Silva had trouble with Chonan in this fight, and it's pretty evident with a lot of his wild strikes that were pretty inaccurate. 

Also, Quadros(I think) asks Bas what Chonan should do better in the 2nd round and he says something like: "Nothing, he should just keep doing what he's doing"

In conclusion, if Bas Rutten says Chonan was winning, then Chonan was definitely winning.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

Kind of surprised to see Machida get so many votes. There are probably only a handful of Machida nuthuggers on this forum. =\


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## bigaza (Feb 10, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> So you're saying Couture has faced tougher competition than Fedor? Or do you mean as of late?


yeah as of late fedors opponents have been of lower calibur as far as mma ability goes, mark hunt is a kickboxer with limtited ground skills and even he almost finished fedor with that armbar.

i suppose matt linland isnt 2 bad competition but rampage beat him. 

and who really expected that big korean dude 2 beat fedor!?


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

Most overrated has to be Anderson Silva! People treat him like he is the second coming of Fedor. The man got dominated by Daiju Takase for crying out loud! Takese is practically a stepping stone for the top competitiors!


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## infamous2117 (Feb 9, 2007)

wow 27 per cent 4 fedor i didnt see that coming i mean id definetley put machida more overated than fedor.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

infamous2117 said:


> wow 27 per cent 4 fedor i didnt see that coming i mean id definetley put machida more overated than fedor.


I'm surprised too. I know he hasn't fought any top fighters in the last year or two, but man, he's 26-1! And has looked awesome in every fight he has been in. When has Fedor ever looked bad? I really disagree with Fedor being the most overrated fighter in MMA


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## infamous2117 (Feb 9, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> I'm surprised too. I know he hasn't fought any top fighters in the last year or two, but man, he's 26-1! And has looked awesome in every fight he has been in. When has Fedor ever looked bad? I really disagree with Fedor being the most overrated fighter in MMA




just on that comment about fedor ever looking bad, have u seen the fujita fight? but ye i totally agree i think people just really want to see fedor lose due to his lack of quality opponents as of late.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> I'm surprised too. I know he hasn't fought any top fighters in the last year or two, but man, he's 26-1! And has looked awesome in every fight he has been in. When has Fedor ever looked bad? I really disagree with Fedor being the most overrated fighter in MMA


They rather he look awesome against the top fighters instead of lower tier ones! Otherwise he'll start looking like Frank Shamrock in their eyes!


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

infamous2117 said:


> just on that comment about fedor ever looking bad, have u seen the fujita fight? but ye i totally agree i think people just really want to see fedor lose due to his lack of quality opponents as of late.


Yes. He got rocked very bad, then grabbed the clinch, got taken down, controlled his opponent and regained his composure, stood back up, and won the fight. I actually just watched this fight yesterday and Rampage's comment after the fight was this: "Now that's a champion right there." Fedor almost lost, yes, but his ability to recover is one of his many talents.


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## infamous2117 (Feb 9, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> Yes. He got rocked very bad, then grabbed the clinch, got taken down, controlled his opponent and regained his composure, stood back up, and won the fight. I actually just watched this fight yesterday and Rampage's comment after the fight was this: "Now that's a champion right there." Fedor almost lost, yes, but his ability to recover is one of his many talents.



yes i agree with recovering ability but another reason why he deserves to be in this thread is because he almost got tapped by a kickboxer.(mark hunt) i mean i know he looked comfortable down there but another couple of centimetres and that shoulder would have popped.


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## AtomDanger (Oct 7, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> I know there are alot of guys that could be nominated for this but latley Anderson Silva is getting to get ridiculously overrated. The guy is a great fighter but he has flaws, and guess what?? He has 4 losses!! So he isnt this unbeatable monster that hes made out to be. If fights a strong grappler with good top control he will lose. Its just that he has been fed guys that he can manhandle. If he beats Henderson Ill be very impressed. But until than, I still think Hendo beats him, as does Filho and Lindland. Everyone knows matchups make fights in MMA, but with you Silva fans you seem to think he cant be beaten.


Thank you for the good laugh.
I don't think Anybody in MMA is unbeatable. But come on.
You honestly think LINDLAND would beat Anderson lol


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

infamous2117 said:


> yes i agree with recovering ability but another reason why he deserves to be in this thread is because he almost got tapped by a kickboxer.(mark hunt) i mean i know he looked comfortable down there but another couple of centimetres and that shoulder would have popped.


I recall it actually being an americana, in which place his elbow or wrist was in danger, not really his shoulder. An americana(IMO) is a pretty easy submission to get out of and it's easy to throw on someone as well. Putting their arm straight and working the kimura is a lot more difficult.


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## infamous2117 (Feb 9, 2007)

like a keylock ye........ i always thought it focused on the shoulder but then again ive never been on the recieving end lol.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

GMW said:


> Randy Couture, no doubt for me. Talking about him as number one p4p or even top 5, is ridiculous for me.


DING DING DING!


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

Bonnar426 said:


> Most overrated has to be Anderson Silva! People treat him like he is the second coming of Fedor. The man got dominated by Daiju Takase for crying out loud! Takese is practically a stepping stone for the top competitiors!


What you don't think silva should be the number 1 mw in the world? Who else should be there, rich franklin?

First of all he didn't get dominated by Daiju Takase he simply got submitted by him.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

He got completely grapplehumped by Takase.

However, that was about 5 years ago and has no merit nowadays.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Having him as the #1 MW makes sense having him #1 P4P over GSP and JZ doesn't IMO.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Damone said:


> He got completely grapplehumped by Takase.
> 
> However, that was about 5 years ago and has no merit nowadays.


I think you mean he got Filho'd!! If Takase could do that than Paulo should be able to.


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## ezcw (May 9, 2007)

I was torn between voting for Machida and Anderson Silva, so I went with Silva just because he had fewer votes.

(Not to mention the cumulative weight of all the people hanging from his nuts is about to force him to bump up to LHW)


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## sub fan (Jan 11, 2008)

I chose Fedor, He has good striking power and good submissions but if a strong wrestler like Randy got a hold of him and put him on his back he would get pounded, standing he doesn't even keep his hands up, he relies on being able to take a punch and delivering a counter that does more damage...brawler style.

I don't know how people can say Machida is overrated he doesn't even get any exposure so how is he overrated? Somebody also said Fitch?! You must be joking....


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

I just don't get will all the silva hate and that he is overrated? IMO philo is overrated, he is just a one dimentional bjj fighter and he hasn't even fought a top level mw so what makes you think he is going to beat the #1 mw in the world?


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

sub fan said:


> I chose Fedor, He has good striking power and good submissions but if a strong wrestler like Randy got a hold of him and put him on his back he would get pounded, standing he doesn't even keep his hands up, he relies on being able to take a punch and delivering a counter that does more damage...brawler style.


Ya man, Fedor sucks from his back!!!!!! And wrestlers are definitely his weak point!


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## mascher (Aug 27, 2007)

Where's the Forrest Griffin and Rampage option?


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## CroCopPride (Jan 13, 2007)

Fedor... r u fcking joking


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

cplmac said:


> Well make up your mind, your either only as good as your last fight or not, but what you just said was a total contradiction.



i will clarify. the most recent fight would be the most pertinant. followed by the next and so on and soforth.

like GSP he is improving to a point where he has made one of your all-american great fighters look average

now do you get what im saying?


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

Damone said:


> He got completely grapplehumped by Takase.
> 
> However, that was about 5 years ago and has no merit nowadays.


Lol, grapplehumped...nice. I watched that fight yesterday...that didn't look like today's Silva at all.


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

Cartheron said:


> Indeed, it's a pretty meh fight. I just hate it when people say Chonan is getting owned then does some miracle sub to win. I would have scored it for Chonan, but it's neither here nor there. Crap all damage is being done really, I figure slightly more to Silva because he is forced to change stance due to leg damage and Chonan doesn't really seem to bothered about being tagged on the face a little. Then factoring the yellow card I see it as Chonan winning. Then comes the bad-ass submission which stops it from going to the judges anyways.


Sorry for posting on something not relevant to the thread, but...

Yeah, Chonan was definitely more than holding his own in that fight. I still can't figure out why Silva was having so much trouble with his striking with that definitive reach advantage. I heard a rumor that Silva's foot (the one that got the lock) was broken prior to the fight - don't know though. I guess when I watched the fight so many other times, I skipped ahead just knowing that the first two rounds were rather uneventful, and that the third contained one of the nastiest subs I've ever seen. And by doing that, all you really see is Silva tag him a couple times pretty hard and then the sub. I'd like to think if that fight happened now it would end a little differently. On second thought...


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## joker684 (Oct 17, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> I know there are alot of guys that could be nominated for this but latley Anderson Silva is getting to get ridiculously overrated. The guy is a great fighter but he has flaws, and guess what?? He has 4 losses!! So he isnt this unbeatable monster that hes made out to be. If fights a strong grappler with good top control he will lose. Its just that he has been fed guys that he can manhandle. If he beats Henderson Ill be very impressed. But until than, I still think Hendo beats him, as does Filho and Lindland. Everyone knows matchups make fights in MMA, but with you Silva fans you seem to think he cant be beaten.


haha 4 loses 2 from how many years ago that no one has seen and one DQ loss and one fluke ass flying leg scissor heel hook to chonin yeh he's real overrated...NOT Franklin dominated that division and can't last more than a few minutes with Silva plus o yeah Silva has knocked everone the **** out...exciting. Shogun is overrated... he is not gonna be champ and I dunno if he can pull off a big win in UFC anytime soon, him and Chuck would be a sick match-up definately main or co-main event worthy


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

All_In_GSP said:


> Lol, grapplehumped...nice. I watched that fight yesterday...that didn't look like today's Silva at all.


I believe that tiny Asian men make Silva fight all non-Spider-like.


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## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> Anderson, and BJ. It used to be Shogun, Fedor, and GSP but a lot of the fair weather Shogun fans disappered after UFC 76, Fedor hasn't fought a guy who counts in ages so some of his fans have left the forum, and GSP has almost proven that what the nuthuggers say about him is true with his performances so I wouldn't say he is overrated.
> 
> *Anderson is a fighter with no great wins on his record and while his stand up game is amazing he has holes in his game and isn't unstoppable.*
> 
> BJ is a guy who is really good but anyone who puts him in there top 10 LW's is overrating him.


Woah. That is pretty crazy right there. How about Rich Franklin x2. Basically before the Silva fight, Franklin was considered top 5, if not top 3, P4P by basically everyone. Not to mention devastating wins over Nathan Marquardt and Travis Lutter. 

Honestly, I don't think Anderson is overrated. I think people just like to hate or love him. It has nothing to do with his skills.

The fact that Fedor is on this list shows that this forum has too many fans who have recently gotten into the sport, and with their UFC Hype wagon brainwashed knowledge are trying to put up a strong front for Fedor sucking. Fedor doesn't suck people, get over it.

Most overrated/over hyped on this forum is quite honestly Frank Shamrock. I mean, everyone loved Frank, but now he needs to stop talking, make his money of his big money, yet pointless fights, and then retire.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

> Most overrated/over hyped on this forum is quite honestly Frank Shamrock.


I am quite saddened by this.


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## MC_chillzilla (Jan 10, 2008)

id love to see frank fight rich franklin.


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

MC_chillzilla said:


> id love to see frank fight rich franklin.


Why so Frank could put his ass to sleep like he did Baroni?


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## MC_chillzilla (Jan 10, 2008)

your opinion doesent count b/c you have a picture of brock lesner in his underwear


btw baroni isnt rich franklin.


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## Vrang (Nov 11, 2007)

Were is Alexander Houston on your poll? 
The man was a big joke ho only got his 15 seconds of fame because he was the american dream and on almost evry MMA forum people talked about how good he was and that he was the new up and comming.


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## AceFranklin88 (Apr 21, 2007)

IcemanCometh said:


> Why so Frank could put his ass to sleep like he did Baroni?


Put him to sleep? Haha before I start, let's note that I'm obviously a Franklin nut-hugger. But let's be serious for a second. Frank Shamrock, as great as he may have been, will never return to his legendary superstardom that he once basked in while fighting for the UFC. He couldn't avoid being taken down by Renzo Gracie in their fight and Rich is MUCH stronger than Renzo. Franklin would have no problem pounding Shamrock's face in. Much like he did to Frank's brother. On another note, Baroni is a joke at this point. So that victory didn't mean as much as you may think it did. And Frank wouldn't have much success in taking Rich down and I don't even see Frank out-striking Rich. So let's just wait and see how Frank's next few fights turn out before we make such wild assumptions...Much like you should do with being a Lesnar fan.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I actually think that Frank Shamrock would beat Rich Franklin.

Frank's stand-up is better, and his ground game is about on par with Rich's. Rich likes to stand anyway, so it doesn't matter. Frank's chin is rock solid, while Rich's is not that solid.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

You think Frank's stand up is better? I would have to disagree. I think Frank is a good striker but so is Rich Franklin. Also, Frank had trouble with Renzo Gracie, who has terrible stand up.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Frank was tooling Renzo in the stand-up department. 

Frank's stand-up is incredibly crisp, very technical.

Franklin's a good striker, but he's not really crisp, not really technical. He is competent, he hits pretty hard, but he's not on Frank Shamrock's level. Frank learned from a great striker in Mo Smith.


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

Edit: I figured Damone was gonna in this before me as I was writing my response I had to field a phone call.


MC_chillzilla said:


> your opinion doesent count b/c you have a picture of brock lesner in his underwear
> 
> 
> btw baroni isnt rich franklin.


Nah Baroni is better than Franklin



AceFranklin88 said:


> Put him to sleep? Haha before I start, let's note that I'm obviously a Franklin nut-hugger.


I won't hold that against you. 


> But let's be serious for a second.


K. 


> Frank Shamrock, as great as he may have been, will never return to his legendary superstardom that he once basked in while fighting for the UFC.


Matter of opinion. 


> He couldn't avoid being taken down by Renzo Gracie in their fight and Rich is MUCH stronger than Renzo.


From what I saw of that fight he looked fine once it hit the ground...the illegal back of the head blows are questionable at best. 



> Franklin would have no problem pounding Shamrock's face in.


And your basing that off what? Franklin's great wrestling?



> Much like he did to Frank's brother.


Cheap shot...but seriously what does Ken have to do with Frank in relation to his training, fights, or life in general? Oh yeah, *nothing*.



> On another note, Baroni is a joke at this point. So that victory didn't mean as much as you may think it did.


I could argue a guy with a win over Kondo, and taking Kazuo Misaki to a decision isn't total garbage.



> And Frank wouldn't have much success in taking Rich down and I don't even see Frank out-striking Rich.


I don't see any reason why Frank would want to take Franklin down. If you look at Franklin's fights and listen to his interviews he wants to stand and bang, which plays into Frank's hands, IMO. Lets face it, Franklin cannot hang with good strikers and I feel Shamrock is a better striker, his boxing is better, he uses leg kicks to great effect and shots to the body as well, his clinch against Baroni was ******* brutal. What happened to Rich when he got aplumbed and kneeded in the face? Oh yeah he got KO'ed. Furthermore, don't forget Frank was fighting with really screwed up knees and looked great regardless.



> So let's just wait and see how Frank's next few fights turn out before we make such wild assumptions.


I agree with you here, his fight Cung Le will answer a lot of questions.




> Much like you should do with being a Lesnar fan.


Wow another cheap shot...oh well, I guess being a Franklin fan is hard right now considering his fall from greatness. Also so what I like a guy that is a ******* beast at HW surprised you didn't mention the Syliva in my sig.


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## AceFranklin88 (Apr 21, 2007)

Haha I actually like Sylvia. He's a good fighter and I respect that in him. But Lesnar is untested. I need to see some more fights before I respect him. But it's very bold of you to be on his bandwagon this early. lol And about Franklin fighting Shamrock, I'll stop for now. I need to see Frank's next fight. If he looks great against Cung Le, I might think otherwise. :thumb02: But for now, I'm sticking to my original opinion.


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

AceFranklin88 said:


> Haha I actually like Sylvia. He's a good fighter and I respect that in him. But Lesnar is untested. I need to see some more fights before I respect him. But it's very bold of you to be on his bandwagon this early. lol And about Franklin fighting Shamrock, I'll stop for now. I need to see Frank's next fight. If he looks great against Cung Le, I might think otherwise. :thumb02: But for now, I'm sticking to my original opinion.



I can totally respect that dude. As for Lesnar I am driving the bus as far as this forum goes. I am a Steelers fan too so I know the world of ups and downs.


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## AceFranklin88 (Apr 21, 2007)

IcemanCometh said:


> I can totally respect that dude. As for Lesnar I am driving the bus as far as this forum goes. I am a Steelers fan too so I know the world of ups and downs.


Haha wow I'm in the same boat as you then. I'm a Giants fan so I know what it feels like too. :laugh:


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

Well, all I gotta say is they're in for a big test this weekend.


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## AceFranklin88 (Apr 21, 2007)

Yea that's definitely true. But hey, nobody thought they would beat the Cowboys. I'm just hoping that we don't have a repeat of the 2000 season...They made it all the way to the Superbowl only to get destroyed by the Ravens. THE RAVENS!!! Ahh that was a sad day at my house indeed...


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Damone said:


> Frank was tooling Renzo in the stand-up department.


Hm, maybe I should re-watch the fight because I definitely don't remember Frank tooling Renzo. I remember being let down by Frank's performance in the Renzo fight:dunno:


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> Hm, maybe I should re-watch the fight because I definitely don't remember Frank tooling Renzo. I remember being let down by Frank's performance in the Renzo fight:dunno:


I was too. I wouldn't say tooling, but I would definitely give the stand up to Shamrock. He was killing him with leg kicks but he really only landed one good combo: he shrugged off a takedown, threw an inside knee and followed with an overhand right. Frank looked good standing, but it doesn't help him that the fight was only standing for a few minutes.


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## MC_chillzilla (Jan 10, 2008)

wukkadb said:


> Hm, maybe I should re-watch the fight because I definitely don't remember Frank tooling Renzo. I remember being let down by Frank's performance in the Renzo fight:dunno:






renzo was taking him down and not doing anything.

Frank was def tooling him in the standup department.


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## sub fan (Jan 11, 2008)

If Frank is as good as some people are saying on this post then why is he not in the UFC? He was just running a group in the IFL and most of those guys are B level fighters at best. I really don't think Frank is even in the top 20 to be honest.


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## AceFranklin88 (Apr 21, 2007)

sub fan said:


> *If Frank is as good as some people are saying on this post then why is he not in the UFC? *He was just running a group in the IFL and most of those guys are B level fighters at best. I really don't think Frank is even in the top 20 to be honest.


Well that's not a very intelligent post at all. There's some mystery behind as to why he's not in the UFC. Frank says that he wants to come back, but Dana won't let him. Yet Dana says that he's invited Frank back, but Frank said no. But putting all that aside, how is he not even top 20 material? Because he's not in the UFC? Care to elaborate? :confused02:


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## dvonfunk (Oct 31, 2007)

The Fedor nuthuggery is pretty much out of control but has subsided slightly and is basically warranted based on his record. 

The Penn nuthuggery is a close second but his talent is undeniable. If he gets his conditioning right, who knows?

Randy being overrated is ridiculous. Who else has done what he has at this level and at his age? 

Therefore my answer is Machida. The man is undefeated and has beaten some real names but Rampage would throw him around the octagon. Give him a real test first and then we can talk about contendership.

As for Shamrock, who has he beaten lately that's even been relevant? Phil Baroni? Come on.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

dvonfunk said:


> The Fedor nuthuggery is pretty much out of control but has subsided slightly and is basically warranted based on his record.
> 
> The Penn nuthuggery is a close second but his talent is undeniable. If he gets his conditioning right, who knows?
> 
> ...


Cause randy beat Tim and GG at 44 means that he isn't overrated? He doesn't have nearly a good record as Fedor or Nog nor the level of competition that fedor or Nog has beaten, unless you think is 16-8 record is awesome.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

When Frank taps Cung, people will re-hop back on the bandwagon. It's okay, we have enough room. Me & one other person will scoot over so that all of you can pile in.


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## TKOSPIKE (Jul 7, 2006)

Damone said:


> When Frank taps Cung, people will re-hop back on the bandwagon. It's okay, we have enough room. Me & one other person will scoot over so that all of you can pile in.


that "one other person" is me


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## Cartheron (Sep 5, 2007)

TKOSPIKE said:


> that "one other person" is me


Wish you would let me out of the trunk once in awhile. :<


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## TKOSPIKE (Jul 7, 2006)

Cartheron said:


> Wish you would let me out of the trunk once in awhile. :<


i thought u were in the backseat?:dunno:


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## Cartheron (Sep 5, 2007)

Upgrade!


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