# Jake Sheilds Takes All Challenges Even At 185.



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> “I’m not satisfied yet,” Shields stated. “I’ve got a ways to go, won the Elite (XC) title that I’m very proud of, but I want to be considered the best and I know there’s some fighters out there ranked above me and I’m not going to be satisfied until I beat them





> “I’m willing to fight up a weight,” said Shields. “I’d fight Robbie Lawler, Frank Shamrock, if Elite wants me to do something like that, I’d be happy to do that.”


http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=6788&zoneid=13

Sheilds is an ambitious fighter. He has a bright future in my opinion.


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## Hett (Apr 30, 2007)

Good for him, I'd like to see him fight Lawler. But he'll probably platue with EliteXC in a year.


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## coo1beans (Mar 3, 2008)

J.P. said:


> http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=6788&zoneid=13
> 
> Sheilds is an ambitious fighter. He has a bright future in my opinion.



BLAHBLAHBLAH What was the point of that statement? honestly who cares. Everyone and definately Jakes Shields KNOWS... if he wants to fight better fighters, go to the UFC. Middleweight and Welterweight divisions are garbage in EXC.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

coo1beans said:


> BLAHBLAHBLAH What was the point of that statement? honestly who cares. Everyone and definately Jakes Shields KNOWS... if he wants to fight better fighters, go to the UFC. Middleweight and Welterweight divisions are garbage in EXC.



If you make a habit of not taking under consideration idiodic mannerisms than I understand your standpoint and behavior.

Slow people are not stupid so don't beleive it when others say such. I think you are merley special!!!:thumbsup:


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## coo1beans (Mar 3, 2008)

J.P. said:


> If you make a habit of not taking under consideration idiodic mannerisms than I understand your standpoint and behavior.
> 
> Slow people are not stupid so don't beleive it when others say such. I think you are merley special!!!:thumbsup:


No you are not understanding me. The statement I am talking about is Jake Shield's. His statement almost seems to neglect the existence of GSP. Yes I know gsp is not in EXC. Him saying he wants to fight better people because they're higher ranked than him, and him willing to go to 185 to find them. All he has to do is finish his contracted number of fights with EXC on a winning note, then go and sign with the UFC and he will find some better competition. 

So... bottom line, whatever jake shields said is pointless because we all know where there is competition for him. And obviously he knows too.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

GSP won't fight Shields not the other way around.

I'm sure if Shields could fight GSP he would but GSP is locked into an exclusive contract and Shields can't fight him.

So you know what Shields wants to fight other top guys so he will go to 185 where a lot of the top guys aren't in the UFC.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Sheilds is disgustingly underated. He's currently riding a 10 fight win streak.


He holds a WW title, he defeated the #1 UFC WW contender in a gracie Jiu Jitsu tournament.

He's defeated WEC WW champion Carlos Condit.
He's also defeated UFCs Yushin Okami.

He's more dangerous than alot of people give him credit for. At MW he'd be an interesting fighter.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Look Shields can make all the claims about wanting top competition he wants. There is only 1 other top ten fighter in the circus known as elite xc, Robbie Lawler. If he beats him, there is no one else. Other than Condit and Shields, the entire top ten are in the UFC. There are about four guys in the top ten at 185 that aren't in the UFC. You've got Filho who's locked into a WEC contract. There's Misaki and Akiyama who have never fought in the US and I don't see them coming to Elite XC if they chose to come over. The only other guy at 185 is Lindland. Shields is way too small for Lindland. Shields shot himself in the foot when he decided to take the money Elite XC was offering rather than get respect by fighting the best in the UFC. He simply needs to ride out his contract, and then go fight with the big boys.


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## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

Rockybalboa, you do make a fine point, but I think it is quite clear why Shields doesn't go to the UFC. They won't give him as much money as he thinks he deserves and he'll be wrapped up in long term contract and won't be able to fight wherever he wants. Furthermore, he might get "Arloski'd" or "Tito'd" near the end of his contract.

I'd like to see Shields fight Kikuchi again. That would be an awesome fight for him. Eddie Alvarez, Drew Fickett, Robbie Lawler, Mayhem Miller, Denis Kang, Frank Shamrock, Cung Le, Frank Trigg, Misaki, Aoki and Paul Daley are all big fights for him.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Sadly brownpimp88, Yoshiyuki Yoshida stole Akira Kikuchi's soul and he made Kikuchi retire from MMA after whomping him. I also would dig a third fight between those 2.

Hector mother freakin' Lombard should fight Shields next. Dude is an animal. Judo, gotta love it.


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## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

Damone said:


> Sadly brownpimp88, Yoshiyuki Yoshida stole Akira Kikuchi's soul and he made Kikuchi retire from MMA after whomping him. I also would dig a third fight between those 2.
> 
> Hector mother freakin' Lombard should fight Shields next. Dude is an animal. Judo, gotta love it.


Coincidently Moner, I just watched that fight. It was a sad sight. But Yoshida looks impressive as hell. I'm going to keep my eye on this guy.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Yep, definitely keep an eye on Yoshiyuki Yoshida. That guy is going to be a contender soon, but I can't root for him against Karo. Still, his judo is amazing, as is his sub game. Oh, and he can elbow a fool. Ah yeah, brownpimp88, he's a manly man.

Shields vs Daley would be really fun.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Damone said:


> Hector mother freakin' Lombard should fight Shields next. Dude is an animal. Judo, gotta love it.



I wouldn't be surprised to see that one. Lombard isn't very well known and he is signed to EliteXC so now I got another fight that I wanna see. 

I can't beleive I overlooked that one.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Shields vs Lombard would be interesting.

BTW 2 whoever said Misaki has never fought in the US you may be right but Misaki has signed a contract with Strikeforce so he will be fighting in the US at some point.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> Look Shields can make all the claims about wanting top competition he wants. There is only 1 other top ten fighter in the circus known as elite xc, Robbie Lawler.


Eddie Alvarez is a top ten fighter what are you talking about? 

And after Japan, he should be top 5 in my opinion. It's also funny how Nick Diaz isn't top 10 or K.J. Noons. EliteXC is less a circus and more a thorn in your side.

Sheilds isn't making "claims" he really wants to fight the best. 

He isn't however going to sell his soul to Dana and the Fertitas for less money and a locked up contract. He's definatly smart. Why can't GSP come play? Because his daddy Dana says no?:cheeky4:

This circus you speak of respects it's fighters with respectable contracts and a decent payday. How bout that?



> There are about four guys in the top ten at 185 that aren't in the UFC.


One of the top 10 in the UFC is named Yushin Okami. He got his ass handed to him by EliteXCs Jake Sheilds.



> You've got Filho who's *locked into a WEC contract.*


And you want Sheilds to work for the Fertitas? Is there a fighter under Zuffa who isn't locked down?




> There's Misaki and Akiyama who have never fought in the US and I don't see them coming to Elite XC if they chose to come over.


"bbjd7" ansered you on this. Misaki is signed with Strikeforce so you'll be seeing him in an EliteXC cage soon enough. Add another 10er to the mix.

So not only are your facts wrong here but so is your prediction.



> The only other guy at 185 is Lindland. Shields is way too small for Lindland.


Sheilds has expressed his willingness to move up in weight. Thus they'd weigh in the same. You just really think Sheilds isn't good don't you?




> Shields shot himself in the foot when he decided to take the money Elite XC was offering rather than get respect by fighting the best in the UFC. He simply needs to ride out his contract, and then go fight with the big boys


Again you are wrong. In my opinion Jake is better than John Fitch. I know his Jiu-Jitsu is. And his striking is pin point. Ride out his contract? Looks as if the UFC has an issue with their own fighters riding out their contracts......and leaving.

Looks like your circus has it's fighters respect. And that counts more than your ill informed opinions.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Yeah, Jake will fight at either 170 or 185; he doesn't really care, he just wants to fight solid guys.

Okami didn't really get his ass handed to him by Shields. That was a close fight, and many thought Okami won.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Damone said:


> Yeah, Jake will fight at either 170 or 185; he doesn't really care, he just wants to fight solid guys.
> 
> Okami didn't really get his ass handed to him by Shields. That was a close fight, and many thought Okami won.


It looked as if Sheilds had him standing and on the ground. Yushin had a good TDD I'll give him that, but he wasn't aggressive at all and that was the deciding factor. I don't see how people can think Okami won.


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## Hett (Apr 30, 2007)

J.P. said:


> EliteXC is less a circus and more a thorn in your side.


are you Frank Shamrock??


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Hett said:


> are you Frank Shamrock??


No, are you the guy in your avatar?


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I was bored, so I re-watched Shields vs Okami.

Rd 1.

Okami controlled the clinch game. Jake tries like hell to take Okami down, gets him down but Yushin gets back up. They start trading a little, and Yushin lands a really nice body kick. They both try for a takedown, Jake goes for a leg-lock, Okami gets out and Jake lands some knees. 

10-9 Shields, based on actually trying to work. Hardly an asskicking in that round.

Rd 2.

Jake tries to take Okami down and starts kicking air. Nice body kick from Yushin. Jake works like hell for a takedown. Nice takedown defense from Okami. They break up and Shields lands a nice leg-kick and goes for yet another takedown. Jake gets him down, but Okami is trying to get back up. Jake gets Okami's back but Yushin shows excellent defense and actually attempts a kimura. More defending of the takedown from Okami. Okami lands some nice shots to Shields head. I kind of yawn. They stand and trade, nobody lands anything of note. Round over.

10-9 Shields, based on actually trying to, you know, do something.

Rd 3.

Jake goes for a sloppy takedown and Okami sprawls. More shooting, more sprawling. Jake pulls guard. Okami in half-guard, showing great control. Okami unleashes some nice GnP. Jake is doing nothing but defending. Okami is smoking Shields on the ground, which I find funny, since you said Shields had it on the ground. Okami gets his back and Shields gets up. Shields is bleeding. Yushin lands some nice punches standing. Shields' ear is bleeding and the ref stops to check the cut and bloody nose. Shields tries to kick and panics. Nasty body kick from Okami. Shields had him standing, you say? 

10-9 Okami, based on basically destroying Jake Shields.

29-28 for Shields using the 10-9 scoring system. Using the Pride system, the winner was easily Yushin Okami. I could see how many thought Okami won, since he made Shields fight his fight and had that huge third round. You are too biased towards Jake Shields.


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## Hett (Apr 30, 2007)

J.P. said:


> No, are you the guy in your avatar?


Nope, just wondering because you seem to have a completely overinflated opinion of and vested interest in ELITEXC's success. A thorn in someone's side? Are you serious? Nobody watched and even less went to the last show. Affliction is a thorn in the side of UFC, I'm sure UFC will be there to sign a few of ELITEXC's good fighters when they collapse in the next year or so.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Damone said:


> I was bored, so I re-watched Shields vs Okami.
> 
> Rd 1.
> 
> ...



There is also a moment in round 1 when Okami actually reversed a TD attempt by Jake and took Jake down, Jake immeadiatly scrambled up. I'm not making a point with that I just thought it was a good back and fourth.

In the last round when the refs checked Shields cut, Sheilds attempted a flurry, more than Okami ever attempted.

I don't think Okami made Sheilds play his game since for about 11 out of 15 minutes Sheilds was grappling for TDs and Okami was stuck defending.

Okami was actually on top of Shields because Shields pulled guard from a standing position. 

I think effective aggression was in Sheilds favor the entire time.

When Okami was on top he was getting some work in. I'll give him that. But what was it 1 and a half minutes tops?

Out of 15 minutes.

I think Jake pushed the pace and was doing more to impose his will.



> Hett





> Nope, just wondering because you seem to have a completely overinflated opinion of and vested interest in ELITEXC's success. A thorn in someone's side? Are you serious? Nobody watched and even less went to the last show. Affliction is a thorn in the side of UFC, I'm sure UFC will be there to sign a few of ELITEXC's good fighters when they collapse in the next year or so.


I don't see EliteXC folding as quick as some of you guys do. And I could ask if you are Dana because of your last sentence. But I know that you're not so it would not be an effective discussion method in regards to this issue.

I am a fan of EliteXC and I think that a few changes with marketing along with some other things would help EliteXC flourish.

I also beleive that alot of EliteXCs fighters are underated. Fighters such as Jake, Drew Fickett, Antonio Silva, Nick Diaz, K.J. Noons, and a few more. Furthermore they have some great up and comers like Rafael Feijao, Hector Lombard, Joey Villasenor, Conor Huen and alot more all with great records.

With a few changes it is a likley probability that this org will succeed.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

J.P. said:


> Eddie Alvarez is a top ten fighter what are you talking about?
> 
> And after Japan, he should be top 5 in my opinion. It's also funny how Nick Diaz isn't top 10 or K.J. Noons. EliteXC is less a circus and more a thorn in your side.
> 
> ...



First of all mmaweekly, yahoo sports, sherdog.com, and tapout magazine don't have Alavarez in the top ten, so he's not top ten just because you say so. Also he only has fought under the proelite banner once. He is not under contract, therefore isn't even their fighter. As far as selling his soul to go the UFC, I don't know why you hate the UFC so much. Maybe, you really are Frank Shamrock. Maybe you work for Proelite. Any way it goes Jake Shields remaining in Elite XC, is like a great basketball player passing up the NBA to play in Europe. It doesn't matter if he likes the company or not, they are the top company with the top fighters. The reason to get locked down in a contract with the Ferritas is so that he can spend the next three years fighting the best competition and procing himself. As far as Jake being better than Fitch, you're the only one I've ever heard say that. Fitch is the consensus number 2 in the world. Also if you honestly think that Jake won't spend his entire fight with Lindland getting pounded, then you haven't seen Lindland fight. They won't weigh the same. Shields won't have to cut weight and will weigh about 185. By fight time Lindland could weigh about 200. Elite XC is a thorn in the UFC's side, one that is going to be easily pulled out and thrown in the garbage. They already have had the heads of the company step down. They are losing so much money, they need a miracle to save the company.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Anyone who doesn't have Alvarez in their top 10 is dumb and hasn't been watching his fights.

The guy isn't only top 10 he's top 5 atm.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Alvarez is definitely a top 10 LW.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> First of all mmaweekly, yahoo sports, sherdog.com, and tapout magazine don't have Alavarez in the top ten,


What a joke. I'm telling you, EliteXC fighters are not rated correctly. 



> Also he only has fought under the proelite banner once. He is not under contract, therefore isn't even their fighter.


You're wrong here, EliteXC has allowed him to compete in Japan. Who told you this lie? They should be punished :thumbsdown:

http://www.mmaringreport.com/elitexc-news/elitexc-news/eddie-alvarez-signs-with-elite-xc.html


http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/01...-elitexc-will-headline-shoxc-event-on-jan-25/

http://www.themmadigest.com/2008/01/elite-xc-signs-eddie-alvarez-to-long-term-deal/



> As far as selling his soul to go the UFC, I don't know why you hate the UFC so much. Maybe, you really are Frank Shamrock.


I don't hate any MMA org, nor will you find a post of mine that says such. Don't put words in my mouth. It discredits you.



> Maybe, you really are Frank Shamrock.


Um, yeah.......



> Maybe you work for Proelite.


Ya got me! 



> Any way it goes Jake Shields remaining in Elite XC, is like a great basketball player passing up the NBA to play in Europe.


It's not that simple. It's becoming common knowledge that alot of fighters in the UFC have had money and contract issues with Dana. Why would an intelligent fighter place himself in that situation?



> The reason to get locked down in a contract with the Ferritas is so that he can spend the next three years fighting the best competition and procing himself.


Alot of great fighters have left the UFC. Maybe it's not the best place right now. 



> As far as Jake being better than Fitch, you're the only one I've ever heard say that. Fitch is the consensus number 2 in the world.


I do think he's better than Fitch. *Especially* his Jiu-Jitsu.

As far as your consensus is concerned I can't put my trust in people who wouldn't put Eddie Alvarez in the top 10. Or when they rank Carlos Condit over Jake Shields when Sheilds has defeated Condit.



> Also if you honestly think that Jake won't spend his entire fight with Lindland getting pounded, then you haven't seen Lindland fight.


Says you. I've seen alot of Lindland. Have you really studied Shields?




> They won't weigh the same. Shields won't have to cut weight and will weigh about 185. By fight time Lindland could weigh about 200.


That's possible, It would be a good fight. I think Shields would be very compeditive.



> Elite XC is a thorn in the UFC's side, one that is going to be easily pulled out and thrown in the garbage. They already have had the heads of the company step down. They are losing so much money, they need a miracle to save the company.


Only time will tell, Shaw stepping down was more than likley not of his own will. I think you're very wrong about 80% of your post.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

J.P. said:


> What a joke. I'm telling you, EliteXC fighters are not rated correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So you don't hate any promotion, but working for one is selling your soul? Seems to be a contradiction. According to you Elite XC fighters aren't ranked properly. It's too bad you can't find one legitimate sports writer or expert who agrees with you. I'm sure you're right though. You must know better than people who are considered experts, and get paid for their knowledge about MMA. Oh also none of these organizations have Condit ahead of Shields, so I don't know where that came from. As far as fighters leaving the UFC, Randy, Arlovski, and Sylvia all left to fight Fedor. What other top level fighters have they lost? I have seen many of shields fights, I simply don't think he has the power as a small 170 fighter to tangle with the world class wrestling talent of Matt Lindland, who is a big 185 fighter. As far as not putting himself in a bad monetary situation, guys like GSP and Anderson Silva are making huge amounts of money. If Shields is as good as you say so would he. I agree that Shields Jiu-Jitsu is better than Fitch. However, I think Fitch's wrestling would be too much for shields to handle. I agree Shaw stepping down was not of his own will. The company is in trouble, so he was forced out. The stock is plummeting, the ratings are dropping, and they are hemorrhaging money. Do you honestly think they will keep the CBS deal if the ratings continue to be poor? You were right about Alvarez being under contract. I was wrong; I'm not above admitting when I'm wrong. You should give it a try sometime. If Alvarez wants to continue to fight mid level fighters that Elite XC can scrounge up, good for him.


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## Hett (Apr 30, 2007)

J.P. said:


> It's not that simple. It's becoming common knowledge that alot of fighters in the UFC have had money and contract issues with Dana. Why would an intelligent fighter place himself in that situation?


You'll have a hard time finding any person who doesn't have pay issues with their boss. Money isn't always the only or most important factor when one works for a company. If Shields really wants to be considered the best, he'll go to UFC when he can. It's not like he couldn't make more or close to the same with the UFC, not too mention I'm sure his sponsorships could increase because more people watch UFC than EliteXC. Shields will NEVER be considered the best if he doesn't defeat the WW's in the UFC. So what is more important for Shields? Money or being the best? But like I said, it's logical that Shields would make more money in the UFC. Shields sounds like to me he wants to stay the big fish in the little pond that is EliteXC





> Alot of great fighters have left the UFC. Maybe it's not the best place right now.


Besides HW's, who? Of those, Couture is the only one they tried to keep. AA and Sylvia were practically pushed out. 




> Or when they rank Carlos Condit over Jake Shields when Sheilds has defeated Condit.


That was two years ago and since then, Condit has beaten better opponents I think. But the rankings I'm looking at have Shields well ahead of Condit.

http://zewkey.com/rankingstest.htm

But no ranking in sports is going to make everyone happy.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> Hett





> You'll have a hard time finding any person who doesn't have pay issues with their boss.


I haven't heard one member of Affliction, EliteXC, or Strikeforce complain.



> Money isn't always the only or most important factor when one works for a company.


Neither is popularity. Drew Fickett has beaten Kenny Florian and Josh Koscheck. Both ranked top 10. Drew's not ranked. Looks like EliteXC ain't the most popular bunch. 



> If Shields really wants to be considered the best, he'll go to UFC when he can.


Says you. He's got some good oppourtunities at WW and MW.
And since Alvarez moves between LW and WW I'd love to see that one. If the money is right it is a possibility.



> It's not like he couldn't make more or close to the same with the UFC,


The Jury is still out on that one.



> not too mention I'm sure his sponsorships could increase because more people watch UFC than EliteXC.


Very true, I agree with you on this. 



> Shields will NEVER be considered the best if he doesn't defeat the WW's in the UFC.


It matters how stable the UFCs WW division stays, and which WW fighters EliteXC brings in. Affliction, and DREAM are young and building also. If they sign WW power you can bet that Shields will play in their yard. 



> So what is more important for Shields? Money or being the best?


I would honestly assume that it's a little bit of both.



> Shields sounds like to me he wants to stay the big fish in the little pond that is EliteXC


Or maybe as Roger Huerta recently put it "be loyal to an organization who will be loyal to him".



> Besides HW's, who? Of those, Couture is the only one they tried to keep.


If it wasn't for the money issue they would have kept Tito Ortiz.



> That was two years ago and since then, Condit has beaten better opponents I think. But the rankings I'm looking at have Shields well ahead of Condit.


You're right about this.



> But no ranking in sports is going to make everyone happy.


I think Eddie Alvarez deserves top 5 rank.


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## mtt_c (Jun 15, 2008)

I eventually would like to see Shields go into the UFC before he's 30. He's skilled enough and is dominant enought to do well there-not saying the UFC is the end all be all-but right now the top flight guys are there. LINDLAND has already said the UFC has no interest in him and I think it would benefit EliteXC to go after him. Affliction seemed to go after the guys they wanted. UFC seems to have majority of the up and comers seeking them out (especially US fighters) and WEC is UFC light. I would love to see Shields vs. Penn or GSP.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

J.P. said:


> I haven't heard one member of Affliction, EliteXC, or Strikeforce complain.


Of course you haven't heard Affliction guys complain. They had one PPV, in which they paid their fighters so much that they lost money on the PPV. 




J.P. said:


> Neither is popularity. Drew Fickett has beaten Kenny Florian and Josh Koscheck. Both ranked top 10. Drew's not ranked. Looks like EliteXC ain't the most popular bunch.


Yes Fickett beat these guys YEARS ago. This was in their 5th and 3rd fights respectively. Since then he has lost to Parisyan, Burkman, and Richard Villes (who?).




J.P. said:


> It matters how stable the UFCs WW division stays, and which WW fighters EliteXC brings in. Affliction, and DREAM are young and building also. If they sign WW power you can bet that Shields will play in their yard.


Yes the UFC WW division is the one that's going to drop off. Not the companies that can't turn a profit like Affliction. Why would shields go to DREAM where he would make significantly less money? American fighters don't make big money in dream. 




J.P. said:


> Or maybe as Roger Huerta recently put it "be loyal to an organization who will be loyal to him".


Do you honestly think Huerta deserves the money he's asking for? If Huerta was claiming to be a top LW, you'd attack him. Since he fits your argument you decided to use him. Huerta will lose to Florian, and then sign for less money. 




J.P. said:


> If it wasn't for the money issue they would have kept Tito Ortiz.


I am a Tito Ortiz fan, but he's not a top fighter anymore. He's a top name, but not at the level he use to be at. He's like many great fighters, and he doesn't know when to quit.




J.P. said:


> I think Eddie Alvarez deserves top 5 rank.


Once again no one that matters agrees with you. Maybe it's good that it doesn't matter what you think.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Shields, I believe, was supposed to fight Josh neer at UFC 62, but he dropped out and Nick Diaz took his place. he was also rumored to take on Karo, but it ended up being Drew Fickett.


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## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

RockyBalboa, you do understand that the UFC didn't turn profits on their gates until last year, right?


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

brownpimp88 said:


> RockyBalboa, you do understand that the UFC didn't turn profits on their gates until last year, right?


I'm not just talking about the gate. I'm also figuring the PPV buys. Affliction still lost money. So you're wrong UFC 60 generated over 23 million dollars for the company. That's just one example.


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## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

rockybalboa25 said:


> I'm not just talking about the gate. I'm also figuring the PPV buys. Affliction still lost money. So you're wrong UFC 60 generated over 23 million dollars for the company. That's just one example.


Gates and buys included, the UFC didn't have an annual profit until last year. UFC 60 may have had profits, but I am speaking annually. Keep this information in mind when looking at Affliction, and you will realize that they did incredible for their first show with pretty much no sponsors aside from Trump.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> rockybalboa25





> Of course you haven't heard Affliction guys complain. They had one PPV, in which they paid their fighters so much that they lost money on the PPV.


They pay their fighters well? Good for them.:thumbsup: Probably keeps the morale up. And hey, these are the men doing combat in the cage, they are the reason that these orgs make any money at all. It's good to hear that they're being taken care of.



> Yes Fickett beat these guys YEARS ago. This was in their 5th and 3rd fights respectively. Since then he has lost to Parisyan, Burkman, and Richard Villes (who?).


The Villes loss was what a week ago? Before That loss he was on a 5 fight win streak with a 34-5 record, wins over Josh Koscheck and Kenny Florian. Still wasn't ranked.



> Yes the UFC WW division is the one that's going to drop off.


The question is where will their fighters be ranked next year, 1 or 2 losses from key guys throw off rankings quite effectivly. 



> Not the companies that can't turn a profit like Affliction. Why would shields go to DREAM where he would make significantly less money? American fighters don't make big money in dream.


Wow! Aren't you the same guy who said "Sheilds shot himself in the foot when he deciced to take the money EliteXC offerd him........rather than fighting the best...

So now you're saying that he should be concerned with money?





> Do you honestly think Huerta deserves the money he's asking for? If Huerta was claiming to be a top LW, you'd attack him. Since he fits your argument you decided to use him. Huerta will lose to Florian, and then sign for less money.


If you're asking what I honestly think about Huerta and his ambitions.........Well he is 6-0 in the UFC. Now according to you, only the best fight in the UFC. So he's looking pretty valuable to me.

As far as him signing for less money...... I don't know man, he sounds like he wants a raise.



> I am a Tito Ortiz fan, but he's not a top fighter anymore. He's a top name, but not at the level he use to be at. He's like many great fighters, and he doesn't know when to quit.


Maybe you should tell him so. He does hold a victory over the UFCs current LHW champion in Forrest Griffen.



> Once again no one that matters agrees with you. Maybe it's good that it doesn't matter what you think


If it doesn't matter what I think than why do you continue to engage in this debate? Sounds to me like it matters to you.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

brownpimp88 said:


> Gates and buys included, the UFC didn't have an annual profit until last year. UFC 60 may have had profits, but I am speaking annually. Keep this information in mind when looking at Affliction, and you will realize that they did incredible for their first show with pretty much no sponsors aside from Trump.


Not that I'm surprised, but you are wrong again. The UFC did not have one PPV in 2007 that did not show a profit. However the company's profits were almost nonexistent. This is because of the huge payout in the purchase of PRIDE. Ever since 2004 the UFC has been in the black as far as profit margins. Pulling a year end profit margin figure does not rate the success of a company, especially when they have gone through a major merger. The company's success can be shown in whether their product is making a profit, which the selling of PPV's were.



J.P. said:


> They pay their fighters well? Good for them.:thumbsup: Probably keeps the morale up. And hey, these are the men doing combat in the cage, they are the reason that these orgs make any money at all. It's good to hear that they're being taken care of.


First of all Affliction doesn't fight in a cage. Second of all I am all for fighters making this kind of money. The problem is that no company can afford to pay them that amount of money, including Affliction. If Affliction keeps paying these kind of salaries they will go out of business.




J.P. said:


> The Villes loss was what a week ago? Before That loss he was on a 5 fight win streak with a 34-5 record, wins over Josh Koscheck and Kenny Florian. Still wasn't ranked.


I'd say the losses to Parisyan and Burkman probably had something to do with that. Also the fact the five wins were not against top fighters. 




J.P. said:


> The question is where will their fighters be ranked next year, 1 or 2 losses from key guys throw off rankings quite effectivly.


A loss to a top fighter doesn't drop a fighter out of the rankings. In order for that to happen another fighter has to beat him that isn't in the rankings. For example should Rampage not be considered LHW elite, because of his loss to Griffin. Should Arlovski or Barnett drop out of the top 10 heavyweights after one of them loses to the other. 




J.P. said:


> Wow! Aren't you the same guy who said "Sheilds shot himself in the foot when he deciced to take the money EliteXC offerd him........rather than fighting the best...
> 
> So now you're saying that he should be concerned with money?


No what I am saying is moving to DREAM wouldn't move him up in the rankings or benefit him financially, so why go?



J.P. said:


> If you're asking what I honestly think about Huerta and his ambitions.........Well he is 6-0 in the UFC. Now according to you, only the best fight in the UFC. So he's looking pretty valuable to me.


I'll be the first to admit that UFC protects certain fighters. Huerta is one of those guys, by not fighting top guys. Mostly they didn't want the Sports Illustrated Cover boy to lose. Don't get me wrong his win over Guida was impressive, but he's not a top 10 guy. I think after a loss to Florian, he'll have to accept less. If he does pull out the upset, the UFC will have to get out their checkbook.






J.P. said:


> Maybe you should tell him so. He does hold a victory over the UFCs current LHW champion in Forrest Griffen.


You right he did win a controversial decision 2 years ago. Unfortunately Forrest Griffin (spelled correctly) has grown exponentially as a fighter since then, and Tito's skills have diminished. He just looks flat in the cage. He doesn't have the explosiveness, that he used. 





J.P. said:


> If it doesn't matter what I think than why do you continue to engage in this debate? Sounds to me like it matters to you.


I'm really bored. That's why.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> rockybalboa25





> First of all Affliction doesn't fight in a cage.


Your knowledge is endless.



> Second of all I am all for fighters making this kind of money. The problem is that no company can afford to pay them that amount of money, including Affliction.


They just did.



> I'd say the losses to Parisyan and Burkman probably had something to do with that.


Taken out of the top ten, with his record. Parisyan and Burkman losses. Victories over Kenny Florian and Josh Koscheck......out of the top ten? Sure that makes perfect sense.



> A loss to a top fighter doesn't drop a fighter out of the rankings.


Not even a 10er? Like say.....Mat Serra?



> For example should Rampage not be considered LHW elite, because of his loss to Griffin.


No, absolutly not. I would say Rampage is LHW top 5.



> Should Arlovski or Barnett drop out of the top 10 heavyweights after one of them loses to the other.


No, they should however drop a few down though. A loss is a loss.



> No what I am saying is moving to DREAM wouldn't move him up in the rankings or benefit him financially, so why go?


No, what you said was why should he fight in Japan, American fighters don't get paid well over there. Your words not mine. 



> I'll be the first to admit that UFC protects certain fighters. Huerta is one of those guys, by not fighting top guys.


Are you in essence saying that they through media and fight timing create top fighters?

These Best as you call them are being protected until the time is right?



> Mostly they didn't want the Sports Illustrated Cover boy to lose.


They gave him Guida after S.I. That is not protection.



> Don't get me wrong his win over Guida was impressive


You don't have to tell me, I watched the fight.



> I think after a loss to Florian, he'll have to accept less. If he does pull out the upset, the UFC will have to get out their checkbook.


I think Roger wants a raise. I'm pretty sure even with a loss to Kenny if such should happen, that other orgs will still shell out a hell of a lot for Huerta. He's got one fight after this one. They may have a standoff on it. 



> *You right he did win * a controversial decision 2 years ago.


I am aware that he won. That's why I said such.



> Unfortunately Forrest Griffin (spelled correctly)


Don't attack grammar, you don't have a leg to stand on in that dept.



> grown exponentially as a fighter since then, and Tito's skills have diminished.


If Forrest lost to Machida would you say the same about him? Bottom line is that the UFC would have kept Tito had he not demanded so much money. You make petty excuses.



> I'm really bored. That's why


I find that hard to beleive.


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## SOTAK (May 2, 2008)

rockybalboa25 said:


> First of all mmaweekly, yahoo sports, sherdog.com, and tapout magazine don't have Alavarez in the top ten, so he's not top ten just because you say so. Also he only has fought under the proelite banner once. He is not under contract, therefore isn't even their fighter. As far as selling his soul to go the UFC, I don't know why you hate the UFC so much. Maybe, you really are Frank Shamrock. Maybe you work for Proelite. Any way it goes Jake Shields remaining in Elite XC, is like a great basketball player passing up the NBA to play in Europe. It doesn't matter if he likes the company or not, they are the top company with the top fighters. The reason to get locked down in a contract with the Ferritas is so that he can spend the next three years fighting the best competition and procing himself. As far as Jake being better than Fitch, you're the only one I've ever heard say that. Fitch is the consensus number 2 in the world. Also if you honestly think that Jake won't spend his entire fight with Lindland getting pounded, then you haven't seen Lindland fight. They won't weigh the same. Shields won't have to cut weight and will weigh about 185. By fight time Lindland could weigh about 200. Elite XC is a thorn in the UFC's side, one that is going to be easily pulled out and thrown in the garbage. They already have had the heads of the company step down. They are losing so much money, they need a miracle to save the company.



You seem to really like elitexc:thumb02: TROLL!!:thumb02:


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

J.P. said:


> Your knowledge is endless.


I am well aware of that.




J.P. said:


> They just did.


 The point is they can't afford to continue to do so. Their own president said that fighters are going to have to make some monetary concessions. They paid big salaries in their first event to get a lot of big name heavyweights. However they are not going to be able to stay in business if they continually lose money.



J.P. said:


> Taken out of the top ten, with his record. Parisyan and Burkman losses. Victories over Kenny Florian and Josh Koscheck......out of the top ten? Sure that makes perfect sense.


Unfortuanately rankings are what you have done recently not 2 years ago. After the loss to Parisyan, Drew went on a five fight win streak against a bunch of journeymen. None of them were quality opponents. Also a win over Florian at 170 isn't as impressive as one at 155. 




J.P. said:


> No, what you said was why should he fight in Japan, American fighters don't get paid well over there. Your words not mine.


This is what I am saying: Since American fighters aren't paid well in DREAM and going there wouldn't help his rankings, why would he go there?




J.P. said:


> Are you in essence saying that they through media and fight timing create top fighters?
> 
> These Best as you call them are being protected until the time is right?


Really Huerta is the only fighter I can think of that won five in a row before facing a real high quality opponent in the UFC. There is a timing examples, Fitch was the #2 WW and ready to face GSP. However GSP had to face Matt Serra. So instead of putting him against a top fighter the UFC protected their #1 contender by having him face Chris Wilson. It was a tune up fight. Boxers have them all the time.



J.P. said:


> I think Roger wants a raise. I'm pretty sure even with a loss to Kenny if such should happen, that other orgs will still shell out a hell of a lot for Huerta. He's got one fight after this one. They may have a standoff on it.


I don't see any other organization having the money to shell out for what Huerta wants. Affliction is trying to maintain their Heavyweight roster and woo Ortiz. Elite XC doesn't have the money right now available. The UFC's offer currently is more than most guys make.



J.P. said:


> I am aware that he won. That's why I said such.


My point was that it was a controversial loss.




J.P. said:


> If Forrest lost to Machida would you say the same about him? Bottom line is that the UFC would have kept Tito had he not demanded so much money. You make petty excuses.


No they would have paid Tito the money he was asking for if he was a top level fighter. It wasn't that Tito lost to Machida; it was the way he lost. He fought with no energy. I just don't think a guy who over the past two years has lost twice, had a draw, and wins against over the hill Shamrock deserves the deal he wanted. He was asking for a salary that would have made him the highest paid fighter in the company. Do you think Ortiz deserves to the highest paid fighter in the company?


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

SOTAK said:


> You seem to really like elitexc:thumb02: TROLL!!:thumb02:


I don't hate Elite XC. I dislike some of the things they do like promote Kimbo. MMA is in need of minor league organizations like this. The problem is when people start seeing them as actually being Elite. They do have some top level fighters like Lawler and Shields. The problem is people saying that the UFC needs to allow their fighters to come to Elite XC to come fight their top fighters. Would Elite XC allow their fighters to fight for the UFC? I do watch Elite XC when it is on. I simply think fighters like Shields need to swim in bigger waters in order to achieve top level status. In this case it is the UFC. If he was a heavyweight, it would be Affliciton.


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