# Just watched Kid 's fight, Im sorry but Faber would KILL him!



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Did you see the size difference Yahya and Kid?? And Rani is a freakin Bantamweight. Not to mention Rani has ZERO wrestling skills, and ZERO striking skills. But still he managed to get in some decent shots on Kid in the striking department which was shocking to me. Yahya is the perfect matchup for Kid and even though he won by KO, I wasnt impressed. If he came to the WEC and faught Faber like that, he would get beaten up.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

I think Shoguns loss seems to have affected your head.....I don't remember you being incredibly stupid in regards to MMA before. Faber is a wrestler. Kid is a better wrestler. You think Faber is gonna beat up Kid and you think Chuck Lidell has better striking than Lyoto Machida..........what the hell?


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

TheNegation said:


> I think Shoguns loss seems to have affected your head.....I don't remember you being incredibly stupid in regards to MMA before. Faber is a wrestler. Kid is a better wrestler. You think Faber is gonna beat up Kid and you think Chuck Lidell has better striking than Lyoto Machida..........what the hell?


Did you watch any of the fights this past weekend?? Im pretty sure Machida beat Sokky with his GRAPPLING not striking. He is a good striker but I dont think he would be able to deal with Chuck when he is on.

What makes you believe Kid is the better wrestler?? Cuz he made the Japanese Olympic team?? I dont know how many times Ive said this but American wrestling is way more competitive than it is in Japan.


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## pauly_j (Nov 28, 2006)

You're digging a hole djun. No way is Chuck a better striker than Machida.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

Jdun, I'd assume you no longer think Paulo Filho has any shot at Anderson Silva, right?


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Did you watch any of the fights this past weekend?? Im pretty sure Machida beat Sokky with his GRAPPLING not striking. He is a good striker but I dont think he would be able to deal with Chuck when he is on.
> 
> What makes you believe Kid is the better wrestler?? Cuz he made the Japanese Olympic team?? I dont know how many times Ive said this but American wrestling is way more competitive than it is in Japan.


What does Lyoto beating Sokky with grappling have to do with either Chuck or Machidas striking ability?

Yes, I do believe Kid is a better wrestler than Faber, and yes, partly because Kid made the japanese Olympic team.
I also believe Kid is plain and simple a better MMA fighter than Faber.

Seriously...you are basing your argument about Faber beating Yamamoto on Kid KTFOing someone, because the guy managed to land a few shots. Did Kid ever look in the least bit of trouble in that fight? No he did not, which is more than we can say for Faber in his last match.

Also, on Yahya beaing a Bantamweight, you do realise how small Kid is don't ya?


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

TheNegation said:


> What does Lyoto beating Sokky with grappling have to do with either Chuck or Machidas striking ability?
> 
> Yes, I do believe Kid is a better wrestler than Faber, and yes, partly because Kid made the japanese Olympic team.
> I also believe Kid is plain and simple a better MMA fighter than Faber.
> ...


You just made my point for me. Kid is TINY!! Faber is too strong and his cardio would eventually win him the fight. BTW Faber finished Curran in the 2nd round. When did Kid finish him? Oh ya I forgot. He didnt.

Look at the list of guys Chuck has either outstruck or knocked out.
Mezger
Silva- alll time great
Overeem-world class striker
Ortiz
Couture
Babablu
Randleman
Horn

Machida
Penn
Bonnar
Hogar
Franklin

Yea Id say Machida has a much better resume pfff


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

Who would argue who has the better resume, liddell or machida? It's obviously Liddell, but that isn't what we were discussing. It was the more skilled striker which is Machida.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

GMW said:


> Jdun, I'd assume you no longer think Paulo Filho has any shot at Anderson Silva, right?


Yes, he would maul Silva. Im sure of it.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Yes, he would maul Silva. Im sure of it.


Filho would maul Silva? But in his last fast he was getting beat badly until he pulled off the armbar. How is this different then what Kid did?


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

GMW said:


> Who would argue who has the better resume, liddell or machida? It's obviously Liddell, but that isn't what we were discussing. It was the more skilled striker which is Machida.


Based on what? He was afraid to strike with Sokky, why would he want trade with Chuck?? If he stood and traded with Chuck he would eventually get knocked out. Thats what would have happened against Sokky and he knew it so he took him down. He wouldnt be able to take Chuck down.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Based on what? He was afraid to strike with Sokky, why would he want trade with Chuck?? If he stood and traded with Chuck he would eventually get knocked out. Thats what would have happened against Sokky and he knew it so he took him down. He wouldnt be able to take Chuck down.


He sure didn't look afraid to strike with sokky, he looked very comfortable actually. So I don't see a reason to assume he'd get KO'd by Liddell since sokky didn't even come close. 
He probably wouldn't be able to take Liddell down, but to be fair, isn't Sokky incredibly skilled with Judo and Machida was able to take him down?


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## Asian Sensation (Oct 9, 2006)

i remeber lyoto rocking soko with a huge punch before finishing him on the ground:dunno:

and i never saw kids last fight could someone please post the fight or tell me in detail what happened to make you believe that kid is inferior to faber 

btw jdun im one of the few on this forum that believe as well as you do that filho is a bad match up for silva:thumbsup:


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> You just made my point for me. Kid is TINY!! Faber is too strong and his cardio would eventually win him the fight. BTW Faber finished Curran in the 2nd round. When did Kid finish him? Oh ya I forgot. He didnt.


Faber got himself in a world of trouble a couple times in that fight. Kid sat on Curran and punched him in the face for the entire match, made him look like nothing. Why is everyone so obsessed with fights finishing......

Faber is too strong for Kid? Which one of these guys has spent most of their career mauling people froma higher weight class than them? Oh yeah that'd be kid.



jdun11 said:


> Based on what? He was afraid to strike with Sokky, why would he want trade with Chuck?? If he stood and traded with Chuck he would eventually get knocked out. Thats what would have happened against Sokky and he knew it so he took him down. He wouldnt be able to take Chuck down.



Machida got taken down by Sokky in the first, and in the 2nd took him down by punching him in the face and kicking his leg out from unde him. What match did you see where Machida wouldn't trade with Sokky? Sokky was the one trying to take Machida down.

Also, believe if you want that Machida can't take Liddell down, but liddell has never faced anyone like Machida before. He is npt gonna shoot in with a double or single. Look at the leg sweep takedowns he executed on Nakamura and Sokky. Chuck has never dealt with someone who takes people down like that.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Mauling guys from another weight class?? Kid has like 2 solid wins in his career. Honestly I used to think the talent of all the fighters that fight out in Japan(Pride,K-1, Shooto ect) were so much better than what we had to offer over in the UFC and WEC. But Im no longer a believer in that. I think we tend to underrate the guys we see most often and overrate foreign organization fighters.

Im not saying Chuck would totally outclass Machida standing. I just think if Machida traded with Chuck all 3 rounds he would eventually get caught with something. Chuck Liddell is no Sam Hogar.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Yes, mauling guys from another weight class. He fought most of the time at 155, he doesn't even *walk around* at that weight.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

TheNegation said:


> Yes, mauling guys from another weight class. He fought most of the time at 155, he doesn't even *walk around* at that weight.


Ya he was mauling tomato cans. Only solid wins are Genki and Curran.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Mauling guys from another weight class?? Kid has like 2 solid wins in his career. Honestly I used to think the talent of all the fighters that fight out in Japan(Pride,K-1, Shooto ect) were so much better than what we had to offer over in the UFC and WEC. But Im no longer a believer in that. I think we tend to underrate the guys we see most often and overrate foreign organization fighters.
> 
> Im not saying Chuck would totally outclass Machida standing. I just think if Machida traded with Chuck all 3 rounds he would eventually get caught with something. Chuck Liddell is no Sam Hogar.


That's the thing, Machida doesn't trade. He strikes and evades, strikes and evades. When has he been caught flush? When has he been busted open? He's just as elusive and quick as Anderson Silva. Chuck has a problem with strikers that are technically more proficient than him.

Unorthodox strikers like Chuck and Rich Franklin tend to get absolutely raped standing against more technical strikers such as Rampage and Anderson Silva. 

Lyoto Machida is essentially the LHW version of Anderson Silva, his striking is crisp and he hardly ever takes damage, and really, he's a terrible match for Chuck. Hell, he's a bad match for anyone, anywhere (whether on the ground or standing) in the division.

As for Yamimoto/Faber, that's a fight that needs to happen. I think Faber has a better chance than most think, but I'd honestly need to watch more of their fights to really come to a conclusive prediction. 

Could someone please suggest me both fighters' best scraps?


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Ya he was mauling tomato cans. Only solid wins are Genki and Curran.


Lol, and Faber beat cans in his own weight class, clearly better. In fact, the only top competition he fought, he got his ass kicked. I do believe the only time Yamamoto ever got his ass kicked was facing Mike Freaking Zambidis in a kickboxing match.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Ok ok, you guys might have won me over a lil bit on the Chuck/Lyoto fight. Im not saying Machida would win but you guys made some good points and made me think. Chuck has never really faught a technical striker though. I consider Overeem to be the best and most technical striker in LHW division and Chuck KO'd him. He has a totally different style than Lyoto but still thats an impressive win for Chuck. Its one that often gets overlooked.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

TheNegation said:


> Lol, and Faber beat cans in his own weight class, clearly better. In fact, the only top competition he fought, he got his ass kicked. I do believe the only time Yamamoto ever got his ass kicked was facing Mike Freaking Zambidis in a kickboxing match.


I think you need to watch that fight cuz Tyson did not kick Faber's ass. It was actually a very competitve fight. Tyson would pound Kid too, so whats your point??


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Ok ok, you guys might have won me over a lil bit on the Chuck/Lyoto fight. Im not saying Machida would win but you guys made some good points and made me think. Chuck has never really faught a technical striker though. I consider Overeem to be the best and most technical striker in LHW division and Chuck KO'd him. He has a totally different style than Lyoto but still thats an impressive win for Chuck. Its one that often gets overlooked.


I thought Overeem was winning the stand-up until he completely forgot the technical aspect of his striking and started throwing wildly, falling into Chuck's gameplan. I'd say Chuck has fought a technical striker in Rampage. Rampage's boxing is impeccable, I'd definitely call it technical.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> I thought Overeem was winning the stand-up until he completely forgot the technical aspect of his striking and started throwing wildly, falling into Chuck's gameplan. I'd say Chuck has fought a technical striker in Rampage. Rampage's boxing is impeccable, I'd definitely call it technical.


Ehh, Rampage is more of a brawler. He has nice hands but I dont think he is very technical.


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## Arlovski_Fan (Apr 25, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Look at the list of guys Chuck has either outstruck or knocked out.
> Mezger
> Silva- alll time great
> Overeem-world class striker
> ...


Not to mention Penn and Franklin are not LHW's lol

Personally, I think Kid would beat Faber, but it doesn't matter because this fight will NEVER happen. Kid probably will never fight for Zuffa and Zuffa will never let Faber go to Heros/anywhere else.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Ehh, Rampage is more of a brawler. He has nice hands but I dont think he is very technical.


I don't know if I'd call him a brawler, I'd reserve that title for the likes of Tank Abbott, Cabbage, and Kimbo Slice.

Rampage is great at cutting off the octagon, he's great at covering up, he's great at countering, and he just uses angles really well. Rampage completely avoided getting into wild exchanges and picked his shots perfectly, as seen in the fact Chuck went for the left straight to the body and Rampage followed it up with the perfect response.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Ehh, Rampage is more of a brawler. He has nice hands but I dont think he is very technical.


Jackson has great Boxing, he fought Abidi twice in K1 and beat his ass both times. 

I can't argue about this with you anymore, both Faber and Kid fought cans yes, but Kid fought bigger cans and has some wins which are more impressive than Fabers. PLus, I just think he is by far a better fighter. Eventually, this fight will probably happen, and I predict you will eat your words.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

SIG BET, SIG BET, SIG BET!

/Jerry Springer rhythm


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

TheNegation said:


> Jackson has great Boxing, he fought Abidi twice in K1 and beat his ass both times.
> 
> I can't argue about this with you anymore, both Faber and Kid fought cans yes, but Kid fought bigger cans and has some wins which are more impressive than Fabers. PLus, I just think he is by far a better fighter. Eventually, this fight will probably happen, and I predict you will eat your words.


Im not saying Rampage isnt a good striker. He is a very good striker. But I just dont think of him as being a technician. I put him more along the line of Lawler, Wandy, Baroni, Liddell type of striker. I consider technical strikers to be guys like Anderson, Machida, Stout, Crocop.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Im not saying Rampage isnt a good striker. He is a very good striker. But I just dont think of him as being a technician. I put him more along the line of Lawler, Wandy, Baroni, Liddell type of striker. I consider technical strikers to be guys like Anderson, Machida, Stout, Crocop.


The point is though, is that he is a more technical boxer than Chuck Liddell.


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## pauly_j (Nov 28, 2006)

He wasn't technical before he moved camps. Now he has an awesome boxing coach and his boxing in the ufc has been brilliant.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

pauly_j said:


> He wasn't technical before he moved camps. Now he has an awesome boxing coach and his boxing in the ufc has been brilliant.


It doesn't hurt to train your boxing skills alongside Shane Mosley.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Did you watch any of the fights this past weekend?? Im pretty sure Machida beat Sokky with his GRAPPLING not striking. He is a good striker but I dont think he would be able to deal with Chuck when he is on.
> 
> *What makes you believe Kid is the better wrestler?? Cuz he made the Japanese Olympic team?? I dont know how many times Ive said this but American wrestling is way more competitive than it is in Japan.*


How many times have you been corrected on that? KID was State Champ in Arizona 3 times where he went to high school. Is that American enough for you????


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## MetalMunkey (Oct 14, 2006)

kds13 said:


> How many times have you been corrected on that? KID was State Champ in Arizona 3 times where he went to high school. Is that American enough for you????


I'm thinking he's talking a little higher level of wrestling. 3 time Arizona State Champ does not equal Olympian.

Anyways, nothing about that fight, Kid-Yahya, showed me that Faber would kill him. I do, however, think it would be a good fight.


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## Asian Sensation (Oct 9, 2006)

i just watched the figh yahya got a few good shots in with his wild swinging but thats about it nothing really rocked kid but kid rocked him a few times and ofcourse ended up getting the knock out i dont see how this performance would show you that faber would beat kid since fabers own stand up isnt that great and kids fight with yahya never hit the ground


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

kds13 said:


> How many times have you been corrected on that? KID was State Champ in Arizona 3 times where he went to high school. Is that American enough for you????


Am I supposed to be impressed by that??


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Asian Sensation said:


> i just watched the figh yahya got a few good shots in with his wild swinging but thats about it nothing really rocked kid but kid rocked him a few times and ofcourse ended up getting the knock out i dont see how this performance would show you that faber would beat kid since fabers own stand up isnt that great and kids fight with yahya never hit the ground


That fight went WAYYY longer than I thought it was gonna. I didnt see anyway Yahya could beat Kid. It was just a horrible matchup for him. But he did alot better than I thought he could.


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## Stratisfear (Oct 16, 2006)

That fight was total domination. No idea what you mean.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

Well you keep saying Olympic wrestling in Japan is different than in the US...KID learned in the US. He has a US wrestling background. 

Plus, how'd you see anything wrong with Yamamoto in that fight? He tooled Yahya.


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## Asian Sensation (Oct 9, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> That fight went WAYYY longer than I thought it was gonna. I didnt see anyway Yahya could beat Kid. It was just a horrible matchup for him. But he did alot better than I thought he could.


yahya has a good chin he was rocked a couple of times but managed to recover and kid wasnt was aggressive as usual a bit more of a counter fighter this time. overall kid still tooled yahya


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

kds13 said:


> Well you keep saying Olympic wrestling in Japan is different than in the US...KID learned in the US. He has a US wrestling background.
> 
> Plus, how'd you see anything wrong with Yamamoto in that fight? He tooled Yahya.


Maybe Im being a little hard on Kid. He did dominate the fight and maybe I didnt give him his due. But people on here make it seem like he is on another level than Faber and I just dont see it. Faber is a beast at 145 and so is Kid. Shoudlnt that make for a great fight?? I would think so.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Asian Sensation said:


> yahya has a good chin he was rocked a couple of times but managed to recover and kid wasnt was aggressive as usual a bit more of a counter fighter this time. overall kid still tooled yahya


I thought he looked a little rusty. If he faught Faber that night, Faber beats him.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Maybe Im being a little hard on Kid. He did dominate the fight and maybe I didnt give him his due. But people on here make it seem like he is on another level than Faber and I just dont see it. Faber is a beast at 145 and so is Kid. Shoudlnt that make for a great fight?? I would think so.


Oh I agree it would be a good fight, but I think KID's wrestling is just as good as Faber's and his stand up is better. As far as his JJ, he defended plenty of sub's in the Bibiano fight and Faber doesn't really look for sub's either.

I just think with even wrestling and KID having better stand-up, he'd take a pretty entertaining fight.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

kds13 said:


> Oh I agree it would be a good fight, but I think KID's wrestling is just as good as Faber's and his stand up is better. As far as his JJ, he defended plenty of sub's in the Bibiano fight and Faber doesn't really look for sub's either.
> 
> I just think with even wrestling and KID having better stand-up, he'd take a pretty entertaining fight.


On paper you breakdown makes 100% sense. But its isnt always clear cut. For instance Curran is better at bjj than Faber but Faber submitted him. And in the Randy/Tim fight, Tim is obviously the better striker but Randy outstruck him. I just think Faber gives you so much to worry about that it poses alot of problems. Throw in the fact that he is a cardio freak and I see Faber winning this fight. I have no idea how it would go I just think he finds a way to win.

P.S. Im assuming this fight is in the WEC. Kid would def have the advantage in a ring with no elbows.


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## Asian Sensation (Oct 9, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> I thought he looked a little rusty. If he faught Faber that night, Faber beats him.


i dunno if you could really say that since faber wouldnt be looking to strike with kid but instead take him down and kid didnt get taken down in this fight


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Asian Sensation said:


> i dunno if you could really say that since faber wouldnt be looking to strike with kid but instead take him down and kid didnt get taken down in this fight


I think Faber is much better in the clinch.


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## Asian Sensation (Oct 9, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> I think Faber is much better in the clinch.


hmmm i dunno i havent really seen that great clinch work from either fighter


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

Damn, crazy thread here.

OK so here's my thoughts on the Yahya/Yamamoto fight. I thought Kid looked a tiny tiny bit rusty/nervous....but other than that I think it was a good old fashioned tooling. Kid looked like he was kinda waiting for the TD the entire fight, his stance was a lot different than normal. He probably didn't expect Rani to try and trade with him basically the whole fight. But, he stuffed all his takedowns, punched him in the face a few dozen times, rocked him a good 5 or 6 times, threw him around like a ragdoll, and then KTFOed him convincingly.

In a fight with Faber, Faber would lose in the striking, and the wrestling would be really close but I just have never seen Kid on his back for more than 2 seconds in all his fights I find it hard to believe this one will be any different. If some 155'ers can't keep him on his back I dunno how a 145'er in Faber is gonna. Kid's shown in a few fights now that he can escape submissions like they're nothing. The Bibiano Fernandes fight is a good example, even with the ring rust. Bibiano's BJJ credentials are world-class, whereas Faber's isn't even nationally recognized. I think in a fight with Faber, the standup would be kinda close but with Kid landing more quantity and quality strikes, and I think he would stuff 80% of Faber's takedown attempts as Kid's sprawl is ridiculous. And if Faber DID happen to get him on the ground I just don't see him keeping top position on Kid for very long at all.

I think this fight is similar to the 2nd and 3rd Liddell/Couture matchups. Kid is Liddell, with fearsome striking and a great sprawl, and even better wrestling abilities. And Faber is Couture, not known for his striking a whole lot but more for his wrestling/grappling. I see Kid stuffing takedowns and scoring his way to a late T/KO or a decision win.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> Damn, crazy thread here.
> 
> OK so here's my thoughts on the Yahya/Yamamoto fight. I thought Kid looked a tiny tiny bit rusty/nervous....but other than that I think it was a good old fashioned tooling. Kid looked like he was kinda waiting for the TD the entire fight, his stance was a lot different than normal. He probably didn't expect Rani to try and trade with him basically the whole fight. But, he stuffed all his takedowns, punched him in the face a few dozen times, rocked him a good 5 or 6 times, threw him around like a ragdoll, and then KTFOed him convincingly.
> 
> ...


Great breakdown man, I see what your saying. I get the Chuck and Randy comparison too. But you seemed to have left out the fight where Randy beat Chuck. The Kid/Faber fight could play out the same IMO. But for some reason I see this fight ending in a guillotine, maybe cuz Kid's shorter and I could see him just pulling guard and jumping on Kid's neck. I dunno lol


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

If Faber does finish Kid, it would definately be a guillotine in my mind as well. Just because of the way they are both built, that just seems like a death trap for Kid's little head. I just want this fight to happen so freakin bad. Zuffa lended Yahya to K-1 now I think K-1 should lend Kid to Zuffa. It's only fair! It would be like the first WEC Pay-per-view headline. WEC's never on PPV is it?


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

*This thread is so f*cking confusing....*



jdun11 said:


> Did you watch any of the fights this past weekend?? Im pretty sure Machida beat Sokky with his GRAPPLING not striking. He is a good striker but I dont think he would be able to deal with Chuck when he is on.
> 
> What makes you believe Kid is the better wrestler?? Cuz he made the Japanese Olympic team?? I dont know how many times Ive said this but American wrestling is way more competitive than it is in Japan.


Actually, Lyoto beat Sokky standing just as bad as he did on the ground, it just so happened he finished the fight on the ground, which kinda shows that this dude is serious on the ground and can take down even one of the best Judokas.

Uh dude, the Japanese are actually very serious with their wrestling, plus, how does it make sense for you to compare Japanese wrestling to American? US has probably the best and most competitive, but Japan is also up there with the leaders. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Faber has aquired the best of American wrestling, wheres his credentials? Atleast KID has some. Plus, as kds13 said, he learned his shit in the US, so wheres your point?



jdun11 said:


> You just made my point for me. Kid is TINY!! Faber is too strong and his cardio would eventually win him the fight. BTW Faber finished Curran in the 2nd round. When did Kid finish him? Oh ya I forgot. He didnt.


I think you should go watch Ishida vs Melendez, you know from this weekend. You can see that the MUCH smaller guy absolutely tooled the bigger dude in the grappling dept.

And believe me, height has nothing to do with strength.

What does finishing a fight have anything to do with skill or how the entirity of the fight will turn out? Randy barely ever finishes a fight, and hes considered god, Houston Alexander has more finishes than Couture, is H.A better?

And how can you seriously compare a resume of 21-5 to 12-0? Come on, you need a better argument than that...



jdun11 said:


> Ya he was mauling tomato cans. Only solid wins are Genki and Curran.


Caol Uno is no can



jdun11 said:


> Ok ok, you guys might have won me over a lil bit on the Chuck/Lyoto fight. Im not saying Machida would win but you guys made some good points and made me think. Chuck has never really faught a technical striker though. I consider Overeem to be the best and most technical striker in LHW division and Chuck KO'd him. He has a totally different style than Lyoto but still thats an impressive win for Chuck. Its one that often gets overlooked.


Guy Mezger is a technical striker, as is Overeem and Rampage.

And as mentioned, Overeem was tooling Chuck before the over-hand right.

In fact, I think all of those guys are much more technical than Chuck.


jdun11 said:


> Ehh, Rampage is more of a brawler. He has nice hands but I dont think he is very technical.


WHAT, what the hell are you talking about. Rampage has some of the best boxing in the division, and his had that for a while!. How many fights can you name that he has just swung for the fences with no regard for defense and technicality? 


jdun11 said:


> Im not saying Rampage isnt a good striker. He is a very good striker. But I just dont think of him as being a technician. I put him more along the line of Lawler, Wandy, Baroni, Liddell type of striker. I consider technical strikers to be guys like Anderson, Machida, Stout, Crocop.


You've got to be kidding me, so all Rampage does is through loopy hooks and dumb straights? Come on how can you compare Rampage and Wandy's boxing. Wandy has almost NO boxing skills.


jdun11 said:


> That fight went WAYYY longer than I thought it was gonna. I didnt see anyway Yahya could beat Kid. It was just a horrible matchup for him. But he did alot better than I thought he could.


So what, the fight went longer than you wanted it, how does KID suck for that? Do you want me to name all the great fighters bouts that went the limit or do you catch my drift?


jdun11 said:


> I thought he looked a little rusty. If he faught Faber that night, Faber beats him.


Man who actually didn't look rusty that night. I think the crispest fighter that night was Ishida of all people.



jdun11 said:


> On paper you breakdown makes 100% sense. But its isnt always clear cut. For instance Curran is better at bjj than Faber but Faber submitted him. And in the Randy/Tim fight, Tim is obviously the better striker but Randy outstruck him. I just think Faber gives you so much to worry about that it poses alot of problems. Throw in the fact that he is a cardio freak and I see Faber winning this fight. I have no idea how it would go I just think he finds a way to win.


Paper-break downs mean shit, therefore, all your talk about how Faber is a better wrestler and much stronger, yada yada, doesnt mean shit till the fight happens. You never know, it could be a 1 punch KO from either dude, or a 15 dry humping session. Such strong assumptions are idiotic when the fight is no where near happening.


I still love ya though...


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

All I gotta say is I completely disagree with the myth that Overeem was tooling or even so much as beating Chuck at any point during that fight.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

On the scorecards at least he was winning, he was landing more shots, doing more damage, etc. How could you say he wasn't winning?


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> All I gotta say is I completely disagree with the myth that Overeem was tooling or even so much as beating Chuck at any point during that fight.


He was winning very early on until Chuck got him in the North/South position than they stood up and Chuck KO's him. I havent seen this fight in awhile but I think it goes sumthing like that.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

Chuck dodged like 90% of Overeem's strikes in that fight, Chuck worked him on their feet and landed more solid blows, then worked him on the ground and kneed the shit out of him, then proceeded to KTFO him. I don't see how Overeem was winning more than 5 seconds of that fight. He threw a lot, but nothing ever landed.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

Chuck landed some shots and avoided a lot but Overeem was pushing the pace and being very aggressive, and was definitely landing more shots in the stand up. Once it got to the ground it was all Chuck.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> Chuck dodged like 90% of Overeem's strikes in that fight, Chuck worked him on their feet and landed more solid blows, then worked him on the ground and kneed the shit out of him, then proceeded to KTFO him. I don't see how Overeem was winning more than 5 seconds of that fight. He threw a lot, but nothing ever landed.


I think Chuck gets cut on the top of his head from one of those nasty Overeem knees.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Chuck took control of that fight when it hit the ground. He did some real damage and Overeem being the dumb shit he is started swinging for the fences. Before it hit the ground Overeem was winning that fight standing IMO.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

As far as Kid vs Faber goes neither has fought top fighter at 145 but it's not a very deep divison. I think Kid would win just due to being more well rounded and using the fact Faber finished Curran and Kid didn't makes no damn sense since Curran got beat far worse by Kid than Faber.


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## Thumper75 (Nov 13, 2007)

On the whole who has better wrestling thing. i can tell you from experience that there are some years where a weight class in a specific state(nation, whatever) aren't nearly as deep talent wise as other years. I know of several very good wrestlers that never made it out of regionals after placing in state the years prior. I have also seen hacks take state, get scholarships, you name it. So take the whole credentials thing with a grain o' salt eh. 

You know what they call a Dr. with a 2.0 GPA don't ya?

Doctor....


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> All I gotta say is I completely disagree with the myth that Overeem was tooling or even so much as beating Chuck at any point during that fight.


We settled this a long time ago, and I'm pretty sure we came to the conclusion that Chuck wasn't getting tooled by Overeem(like I claimed), but nor was Chuck tooling Overeem(what you claimed). That fight was pretty even with both men getting dinked up before the huge overhand right to the forehead


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> We settled this a long time ago, and I'm pretty sure we came to the conclusion that Chuck wasn't getting tooled by Overeem(like I claimed), but nor was Chuck tooling Overeem(what you claimed). That fight was pretty even with both men getting dinked up before the huge overhand right to the forehead


Yea I remember that haha. I think you're right but I can't find the damn fight anywhere to watch it! You're probably right I don't think Chuck was tooling him but I definately don't see how Overeem was tooling him. Fuckitanyway.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> Yea I remember that haha. *I think you're right but I can't find the damn fight anywhere to watch it!* You're probably right I don't think Chuck was tooling him but I definately don't see how Overeem was tooling him. Fuckitanyway.


Overeem starts with a knee, Chuck counters with a right. Right hook from Alistair followed by a big left that actually drops Chuck to one knee, forcing him to shoot. Overeem defends it, they get back up both in a body lock. When they seperate, Liddell is cut.

Some wild punches miss and Chuck takes Overeem down. Thats when Liddell took over, throwing knees from the North/South position. When they get back up, Overeem throws wildly while Chuck picks him apart. Overeem does connect with a really good knee to the body, followed by a right hook, left hook combo that puts Chuck in the corner. 

Nothing significant lands for the next 15-20 seconds, till Overeem lands a good left, right combo. Overeem whifs on a high kick and instantly gasses, inexplicably. Chuck rocks him with a few punches then lands a big looping overhand right. The end combo follows.


Overeem was winning the first, eh, 55 seconds. Then he got taken down and kneed in the head. I think its hard to say either fighter dominated that fight, or was clearly winning the round, cause both were landing pretty good stuff in spurts.


Check it out: http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/137556/Chuck_Liddell_vs_Alistair_Overeem.html


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## thedude86 (Jun 22, 2007)

I dont know i think Kid did alright. I mean Yahya doesnt just give fights away, he fights to the bitter end whether he wins or loses. Its hard to fight someone who just flails out those girl punches like Yahya did too. But i agree that Kid would be in trouble with Faber, cause faber would push the pace alot more.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

GMW said:


> Jdun, I'd assume you no longer think Paulo Filho has any shot at Anderson Silva, right?


And I also assume that you now think that Nate Marquardt has a good shot at beaten Paulo Filho.

I hate to bring this topic back from the dead, as if it were a zombie in a Fulci film, but man, I finally got around to watching Kid's fight with Yahya after putting it off, and Kid looked pretty freakin' bad. He was slow, sluggish, and he was getting outstruck by Rani freakin' Yahya, which is hilarious given how terrible Rani is standing up. He beat him, sure, but I wasn't impressed. Kid needs to get serious, because ever since killing Miyata with that knee, he has looked totally unimpressive.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

Damone said:


> And I also assume that you now think that Nate Marquardt has a good shot at beaten Paulo Filho.


I'm afraid I don't understand your point here, I never said Nate marquardt didn't have a shot.


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## Asian Sensation (Oct 9, 2006)

Damone said:


> He was slow, sluggish, and he was getting outstruck by Rani freakin' Yahya.


what fight were you watching? i can argee with the fact that kid didnt look as good as he usually does this fight but by no means was he being outstuck by yahya kid rocked him like 3-4 times before finishing him whle yahya got a few decent shots in they were all wild throws and none did serious damage


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

Asian Sensation said:


> what fight were you watching? i can argee with the fact that kid didnt look as good as he usually does this fight but by no means was he being outstuck by yahya kid rocked him like 3-4 times before finishing him whle yahya got a few decent shots in they were all wild throws and none did serious damage


I agree with this. I didn't think Kid looked as great as usual out there and I remember Yahya throwing some crazy wild shit I think he was just catching Kid off guard and surprising him. If you look at how Kid stands the whole fight its different than he normally stands, he looked like he was anticipating the TD the whole time, not expecting Yahya to trade with him like he did.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

Asian Sensation said:


> what fight were you watching? i can argee with the fact that kid didnt look as good as he usually does this fight but by no means was he being outstuck by yahya kid rocked him like 3-4 times before finishing him whle yahya got a few decent shots in they were all wild throws and none did serious damage


Yeah, all I saw was a few wild shots from Yahya land, but Kid followed all of them up right away. He had Rani rocked throughout the fight before finishing him off. It wasn't Yamamoto's most impressive performance, but he dominated the majority of that fight.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Damone said:


> And I also assume that you now think that Nate Marquardt has a good shot at beaten Paulo Filho.
> 
> I hate to bring this topic back from the dead, as if it were a zombie in a Fulci film, but man, I finally got around to watching Kid's fight with Yahya after putting it off, and Kid looked pretty freakin' bad. He was slow, sluggish, and he was getting outstruck by Rani freakin' Yahya, which is hilarious given how terrible Rani is standing up. He beat him, sure, but I wasn't impressed. Kid needs to get serious, because ever since killing Miyata with that knee, he has looked totally unimpressive.


So do you agree with me when I said that if Kid had faught Faber that night instead of Rani he would have lost??


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

GMW said:


> I'm afraid I don't understand your point here, I never said Nate marquardt didn't have a shot.


Actually, I was referring to Jdun, but quoted your post towards him about his "Paulo Filho will beat whoever" ramblings.



> what fight were you watching? i can argee with the fact that kid didnt look as good as he usually does this fight but by no means was he being outstuck by yahya kid rocked him like 3-4 times before finishing him whle yahya got a few decent shots in they were all wild throws and none did serious damage


I was watching the fight that had an overrated (currently) 145'er (& 155'er) have trouble with a guy who previously fought at 135 standing. What fight were you watching?

That performance was awful, and people who suck Kid off as being the guy he once was are either delusional or insane, or even both.



> So do you agree with me when I said that if Kid had faught Faber that night instead of Rani he would have lost??


Definitely, and I'm actually baffled at the people who bashed you for saying that. Completely baffled.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

I DO NOT think Filho would beat everyone at 185. I think Hendo would knock him out and Lindland would beat him up as well. Even a guy like Franklin would give him trouble, possibly even knock him out. I think Rich has a better sprawl than Silva does which could help him aginst Filho.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I see you've changed your tone ever since Sonnen damn near beat dude down.

Do you think that Filho would beat Marquardt? If so, why?


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

I think Filho will beat almost any fighter... as long as he gets the fight to the ground. His black belt in Judo and good wrestling base really helps with this though, Sonnen just happened to be a terrible style match up for Filho


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

Damone said:


> I was watching the fight that had an overrated (currently) 145'er (& 155'er) have trouble with a guy who previously fought at 135 standing. What fight were you watching?
> 
> That performance was awful, and people who suck Kid off as being the guy he once was are either delusional or insane, or even both.


I like Yamamoto a little cause he's exciting, but the thing that turns me off is his somewhat cocky/unsportmanlike nature. But even I can't help but defend him here.

Yeah, lets get down on KID for fighting someone from a lower weight class when he's been fighting guys who weigh more than him most of his career. Oh, and he's dominated those guys who weighed more, too. 

I fail to see how someone 17-1 with wins over Curran, Gracie, Uno, Sudo, and Yahya is overrated.

As far as his performance...not his best. But awful? Oh my God, what a gross overstatement. He had Yahya rocked 7 seperate times in the fight before finishing him off, and yes, I counted. 

He avoided getting pulled into guard twice, his kicks were sharp, he used the clinch and threw some knees when Yahya was throwing those meatcleavers around, when Yahya ran in at him he just hipped tossed him aside in the 2nd Round.

Show me one punch from Yahya that didn't have all his strength behind it AND he wasn't looking at the floor. Kid stood in the pocket and took them and never stopped throwing himself. 

Kid looked fine.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Damone said:


> I see you've changed your tone ever since Sonnen damn near beat dude down.
> 
> Do you think that Filho would beat Marquardt? If so, why?


Hmmmm thats tough. It all about if he can get the takedown or not. Nate seemed to have a pretty good sprawl against Lister. But Filho has better TD's than Lister so Im not sure. Nate would pick Filho apart on the feet until Filho got the fight to the ground. Im sure Filho could eventually get a TD but would he finish him?? I dont think so. I would favor Nate slightly. But wouldnt be shocked if either fighter won.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

> Yeah, lets get down on KID for fighting someone from a lower weight class when he's been fighting guys who weigh more than him most of his career. Oh, and he's dominated those guys who weighed more, too.


I think you are misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. I am not getting down on Kid fighting in those weight classes. I'm getting down on him for this, his other performance, and the fact that he hasn't beaten anyone really solid since Genki Sudo. But, of course, I am pissing on the Kid Yamamoto name and what it stands for.



> I fail to see how someone 17-1 with wins over Curran, Gracie, Uno, Sudo, and Yahya is overrated.


Did you miss how I put "currently"? Because, I am in no way saying that his whole career is overrated. When people still put him as number 1 P4P, number 1 145, whatever, when he hasn't even beaten the guys that would get him in those spots, that, to me, is being overrated. Maybe not to you, but to me, it is. 



> As far as his performance...not his best. But awful? Oh my God, what a gross overstatement. He had Yahya rocked 7 seperate times in the fight before finishing him off, and yes, I counted.


Slow, not at all explosive, having trouble standing with a guy whose best known stand-up technique is the bull charge, sloppy, totally uninspired, etc. He was not the guy who I remembered him being, and definitely not the guy who would, "OMG KILLZ FABERZ LOLZZZZ!!!11" Yamamoto should've had no trouble with Rany Yahya, since that's the perfect match-up for him, but man, he was having trouble standing with the guy. 

He looked far from fine.


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## Asian Sensation (Oct 9, 2006)

damone i still dont understand how you think yahya was winning on the feet he didnt land a single shot that rocked or even dazed kid and all he was throwing were wild shots and like kds said kid rocked him many times and eventually knocked him the **** out. As for faber beating kid, what evidence do you have that if faber fought him that night he'd lose? Kid didnt really even show his TDD much and thats what faber does look for the takedown and get some GnP or possibly a sub. On the feet faber is far from impressive and if yahya in your mind was "outstriking" kid in that fight, in a fight with faber on the feet he'd knock him out.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Kid was sluggish, disinterested, and lacked the explosiveness he usually possesses. 

Faber, on the other hand, is extremely explosive, determined, and fast. On top of that, his sub game is quite good, and his striking's not really that bad. Also, he'd press that Kid Yam against the fence, take him down, and pound him out. Kid needs to actually fight relevant guys, because these gimme fights that Hero's keeps setting up ain't cutting it. Kid just doesn't look like he even cares. Faber, on the other hand, couldn't be anymore focused. He looked really, really good against Curran.

And I don't even care for Urijah Faber. Actually, I'm a bigger Kid Yam fan than I am a Faber fan.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

Again, show me a punch Yahya threw that wasn't an all-out power punch without his head down. Kid had no problem with him standing. Is having trouble striking rocking your opponent 6 or 7 times and then flatlining him???



EDIT: Please rewatch the Faber vs. Curran fight. 
http://www.mmatko.com/urijah-faber-vs-jeff-curran-fight-video-wec-31/

Curran got the leg sweep right off the bat and put Faber on his back. Curran immediately passes to side control. Oh look...Curran mounts Urijah...20 SECONDS INTO THE FIGHT. Curran had his back the entire first round...


I just don't see how Kid looked bad against Yahya and Faber looked "really, really good" against Curran.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I take it you missed the second round of the Faber vs Curran fight.

Choking out a really, really good jitz guy like Curran, not to mention finishing him, is quite simply amazing. Jeff Curran usually doesn't get finished. Jeff Curran doesn't usually get subbed.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

Damone said:


> I take it you missed the second round of the Faber vs Curran fight.


The one where Faber messed up his judo throw and landed on bottom, got his back taken again, but then finally kicked in gear and dominated the latter half?

No, I saw that too. The first two minutes of Round 2 were even.


Kid showed more dominance vs. Yahya than Faber did vs. Curran, personally.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Did Curran ever come close to choking him out though? It's pretty difficult to choke someone out at the very start of a fight, especially with both guys not sweating, not gassed, and wearing MMA gloves.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Rani hit some nice leg-kicks, a nice body kick, a nice head-kick (Which was followed up with a nice flurry), a nice counter, some wild strikes that connect, a nice uppercut, nice shot by Yahya after that wild flurry in the first, Superman punch connects, too bad that Rani is a dumbshit, Another wild flurry (Shots do connect, and yes, Kid's in there throwing wild, too), holy shit, someone pinch me, Rani is actually utilizing dirty boxing. Round over. Oooh, that dude in the middle of those 2 chicks is, like, so the pimp daddy. Wild flurry connects, Rani, do not match power. whoa, wild flurry and Rani unleashes 2 nice uppercuts, nice shot after eating a ton of shots, nice highkick, nice legkick, nice highkick, nice legkick.

Either Kid Yamamoto looked pretty meh, or Rani Yahya is making a Frank Shamrock-like improvement. 

Also, kid was sloppy as shit here, willing to throw wildly with Yahya. If Yahya had Kid's power, then Kid would've been rocked, as well. Kid got his shots in, of course, but I don't know, something was off. I felt the same way in his last fight. He needs to fight guys like Pato, Takaya, Tamura, & Lion. Guys that would actually test him. K-1 Hero's wants to please him, and that's fine, but people need to realize that Faber would actually stand a good chance against him.



> Kid showed more dominance vs. Yahya than Faber did vs. Curran, personally.


Kid was taking shots from a grappler. Faber got his back taken by a great jitz player. Kid stopped a grappler. Faber choked out a great jitz player, who happens to be damn near impossible to finish.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

Damone said:


> Rani hit some nice leg-kicks, a nice body kick, a nice head-kick (Which was followed up with a nice flurry), a nice counter, some wild strikes that connect, a nice uppercut, nice shot by Yahya after that wild flurry in the first, Superman punch connects, too bad that Rani is a dumbshit, Another wild flurry (Shots do connect, and yes, Kid's in there throwing wild, too), holy shit, someone pinch me, Rani is actually utilizing dirty boxing. Round over. Oooh, that dude in the middle of those 2 chicks is, like, so the pimp daddy. Wild flurry connects, Rani, do not match power. whoa, wild flurry and Rani unleashes 2 nice uppercuts, nice shot after eating a ton of shots, nice highkick, nice legkick, nice highkick, nice legkick.
> 
> Either Kid Yamamoto looked pretty meh, or Rani Yahya is making a Frank Shamrock-like improvement.
> 
> ...


Thats all Yahya did, was throw power shots and they had a ton of steam on them. Kid took them as if they were nothing. I also notice the lack of account for how many times Rani was rocked. He even turned his back on Yamamoto once, and I thought it should have been stopped then.

As far as Faber getting his back taken by a jitz dude, yes thats true. But how'd he get outwrestled too??? Curran leg sweeped him at the outset of the fight and took his back. Round two, Curran stuffed Faber's throw...not very impressive from someone who is considered an explosive wrestler.

I'll admit, that was not Kid's best performance, but it wasn't horrid. Just the same as Urijah's wasn't "really, really good" against Curran.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

See, I thought Faber looked really good vs Curran. Getting put into a terrible position, defending it perfectly, then going back and doing the same thing to that person is, in my opinion, doing a really good job. It's more impressive for me to see someone handle adversity and difficult positions and still pull off the victory rather than just winning a one-sided fight.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> See, I thought Faber looked really good vs Curran. Getting put into a terrible position, defending it perfectly, then going back and doing the same thing to that person is, in my opinion, doing a really good job. It's more impressive for me to see someone handle adversity and difficult positions and still pull off the victory rather than just winning a one-sided fight.


Coming back from a bad spot is impressive, but how is it more dominant than winning a one-sided fight? :confused03:


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

kds13 said:


> Coming back from a bad spot is impressive, but how is it more dominant than winning a one-sided fight? :confused03:


Well I actually said impressive, not dominant. You can look good offensively *and* defensively in a fight


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

It was impressive because Faber came back after being in trouble, and completely smoked Jeff Curran, who has been in there with guys like Kid, Serra, Pato, Fabiano, and others. Get this, Faber choked out a great jitz fighter. That is impressive, and that's way more impressive than stopping a guy you should've been able to stop in the first place.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

kds13 said:


> *Kid showed more dominance vs. Yahya than Faber did vs. Curran, personally.*





wukkadb said:


> Well I actually said impressive, not dominant. You can look good offensively *and* defensively in a fight


Thats the argument I'm making. Kid was more dominant vs. Yahya than Faber was vs. Curran...yet Kid looked bad for some reason...:confused02:



Damone said:


> It was impressive because Faber came back after being in trouble, and completely smoked Jeff Curran, who has been in there with guys like Kid, Serra, Pato, Fabiano, and others. Get this, Faber choked out a great jitz fighter. That is impressive, and that's way more impressive than stopping a guy you should've been able to stop in the first place.


Its impressive in the finish, not how the whole fight went. He lost Round 1 pretty decisively. I wasn't arguing that Faber wasn't impressive, because he was. But Kid was much more dominant in his fight than Faber was.

Curran is a better opponent, but you're really knocking on Yahya here. He is one fight removed from fighting for a WEC title.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

kds, Curran is a way better fighter than Yahya. That pretty much ends the argument your trying to make. Yahya is a HORRIBLE striker and has crappy TD's. With Kid's godlike wrestling and K-1 level striking, shouldnt he have been able to finish a fighter like Yahya quicker than he did.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

kds13 said:


> Thats the argument I'm making. Kid was more dominant vs. Yahya than Faber was vs. Curran...yet Kid looked bad for some reason...:confused02:
> .


Ahh, I see. I just thought you weren't giving credit to Faber when due so I was backing him up


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> kds, Curran is a way better fighter than Yahya. That pretty much ends the argument your trying to make. Yahya is a HORRIBLE striker and has crappy TD's. With Kid's godlike wrestling and K-1 level striking, shouldnt he have been able to finish a fighter like Yahya quicker than he did.


He had him on the ropes the entire fight, had him rocked several times and absolutely FLATLINED Yahya in Round 2. Could he have finished him off one of the times he had Rani rocked? Yes. I'm not arguing that this is Kid's greatest fights ever, I am arguing that he didn't look awful.

Get me? 



wukkadb said:


> Ahh, I see. I just thought you weren't giving credit to Faber when due so I was backing him up


Its cool. I was just trying to make the point that Kid looked more dominant than Faber, but as far as impressive victories go...Faber looked more impressive by coming back from losing Round 1 and submitting a great JJ player. Dominant is a different thing than impressive, at least to me.

:thumbsup:


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I also watched Hansen vs Miyata, and holy hell, that was one awesome finish. Hansen is back, and I, for one, am happy to see that. How come that RNC gets no love? That shit was awesome.

Carry on.


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## Asian Sensation (Oct 9, 2006)

Damone said:


> I also watched Hansen vs Miyata, and holy hell, that was one awesome finish. Hansen is back, and I, for one, am happy to see that. How come that RNC gets no love? That shit was awesome.
> 
> Carry on.


kinda random


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

Damone said:


> I also watched Hansen vs Miyata, and holy hell, that was one awesome finish. Hansen is back, and I, for one, am happy to see that. How come that RNC gets no love? That shit was awesome.
> 
> Carry on.


I've always thought Hansen has the best transitions to subs, they always look magical. People like Aoki have these slick subs that are easy on the eyes while looking awesome, but when I see Hansen in the middle of flipping a guy over for a RNC I feel like a excited little girl on the inside.


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