# Fighter and Ref argue over whether opponent is "out" after choke.



## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

Chad George puts his opponent to sleep using a Von Flue Choke and has to argue with the ref that he is out.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Strange one that.

You can forgive the ref to immediately recognising that he was out, but one George said he was out, it was clear he was - just laying there not doing anything.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

He might have been right but he should have held the choke a little longer no way could the ref determine if Ward was out at that point.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

John8204 said:


> He might have been right but he should have held the choke a little longer no way could the ref determine if Ward was out at that point.


What¿ Dude's primary objective was to get his own head free. Only after he got it free and was going knee on belly he realised his opponent was out.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Voiceless said:


> What¿ Dude's primary objective was to get his own head free. Only after he got it free and was going knee on belly he realised his opponent was out.


The primary objective is to win the fight if you have a guillotine or von flue choke in you wait for the ref. This can set a very dangerous precedent with fighters trying to argue their opponent is out to either get a cheap win or get themselves hurt arguing with the ref and taking their eye off the opponent.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

John8204 said:


> The primary objective is to win the fight if you have a guillotine or von flue choke in you wait for the ref. This can set a very dangerous precedent with fighters trying to argue their opponent is out to either get a cheap win or get themselves hurt arguing with the ref and taking their eye off the opponent.


The reason the ref couldn't determine he was out was because he was at the wrong angle to see his right arm flop - thats forgivable, not realising he was out when the other guy said he was is not.

Fighters know when their opponent goes out, better than a ref does, they feel it. He absolutely did the right thing by releasing the choke.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Voiceless said:


> What¿ Dude's primary objective was to get his own head free. Only after he got it free and was going knee on belly he realised his opponent was out.


This is correct. George got his head out, got his knee on top, and looked like he was about to start punching when he realized that Vorgeas was totally out. That was some good sportsmanship, if anything. The ref wasn't sure at first because Vorgeas' limp body still moved a bit at first - looks like it may have been because of George still being in contact & moving his limp body himself a little bit.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Feels like seeing someone going for the Von Flue choke and not hearing Joe Rogan explain that someone is going for the Von Flue choke.


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## Ricardinho (Jun 6, 2009)

Wow never saw this before!


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