# Thiago Silva "Machida runs more then he fights"



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

http://mmamania.com/2008/12/08/thiago-silva-lyoto-machida-runs-more-than-he-fights/


> “The opponents who have faced him attacked and stopped; I’ll have a different gameplan. I want to see how he deals with someone who’s in very good shape and attacks him for five minutes over three rounds. I’m not underestimating him. He’s a great fighter, but I’d bet on me. I’m not here to joke around. I have my goals, and I’m ready to beat Lyoto…. It will be a knockout in the first round … there aren’t any of his fights I really like. Lyoto’s a fighter who runs more than he fights. He’s not a fighter who will knock me out easily. He scores points, and I’ll make it hard for him to score. I already faced the toughest fighters. I believe it will be more of a psychological fight than a physical fight for me.”


Well Thiago has the gameplan I think he should and he's certainly confident in himself.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> http://mmamania.com/2008/12/08/thiago-silva-lyoto-machida-runs-more-than-he-fights/
> 
> 
> Well Thiago has the gameplan I think he should and he's certainly confident in himself.


Just run in there and punch him in the face Thiago!!!!! Make the Machida train crash!!!


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## imrik32 (Dec 31, 2006)

What a moron. He's going to counter the fact that machida counter attacks by...attacking...Yeah that'll work!

Machida's got this hands down.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

> "I already faced the toughest fighters."


No, you really haven't. You almost got your block knocked-off by Antonio "The Child Molester" Mendes, I expect Lyoto to make you look as over-rated as I think you are.


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## Split (Sep 28, 2006)

imrik32 said:


> What a moron. He's going to counter the fact that machida counter attacks by...attacking...Yeah that'll work!
> 
> Machida's got this hands down.


If he fights like he says he will, not so sure. To beat those kind of fighters, i think its either all in, or all out. Go for the kill, or be very patient and wait for Machida to stop stepping out of range.

However, you are(well the rest of Machida fans as well) counting on the fact that machida's counterstriking is perfect and unbeatable. Sokoudjou managed to land a few hard shots before he was down and dominated. 

Im not saying Thiago has any kind of striking power or speed like Sokoudjou , but his gameplan is not a bad idea, IF he has the tools to actually do it.. 

But in any case, i see this fight going down more than once.. if Machida has too much pressure, he will clinch, takedown, LnP and wait for a moment to pass and try submissions. 

I also see Machida winning, but i honestly dont care about this fight, i dont know much about Thiago Silva, only what kind of fighter he is, and he is cocky. He can be undefeated as well, but his resume is not as good in my opinion.

Just look a little more about his interviews.. says Houston Alexander and James are harder opponents than Machida, something like that. I guess he just meant though as in dangerous at being hurt. It would be ridiculous of him to get a title shot, i have no idea what he is talking about. Same for Machida.


And its not like he traded much with Houston Alexander either, he just put him down and finished him.


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## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> No, you really haven't. You almost got your block knocked-off by Antonio "The Child Molester" Mendes, I expect Lyoto to make you look as over-rated as I think you are.


You beat me to it. I would rep you if I could.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I think Thiago will push the pace get this to the ground and win the fight from there.

Thiago is really skilled on the ground and he trains at a fantastic gym where his striking will keep improving.

Sitting on the outside and waiting for Machida is retarted so this idea is much smarter.


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

I'm definately going to be looking forward to this fight. Thiago has quite the resume although he hasn't beaten anyone worthy of mention. I see Lyoto frustrating him and subbing him in the third round.


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## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> Just run in there and punch him in the face Thiago!!!!! Make the Machida train crash!!!


Sweet.....sick him silva sick him boy:thumb02:


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## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Just run in there and punch him in the face Thiago!!!!! Make the Machida train crash!!!


Does it not occur to anyone that this is what most of Machida's opponents planned to do before they actually got into the cage with him?


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Tito wanted to take him down.

Nakamura didn't really have a gameplan.

Sokky had this strategy but he also has a shit ground game.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Damn do I really hope Thiago pulls this off.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> No, you really haven't. You almost got your block knocked-off by Antonio "The Child Molester" Mendes, I expect Lyoto to make you look as over-rated as I think you are.


Finally this fight is going to happen and I can stop arguing with you about it .


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## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Tito wanted to take him down.
> 
> Nakamura didn't really have a gameplan.
> 
> Sokky had this strategy but he also has a shit ground game.


What I'm saying, though, is that every fighter that has watched tape on him knows what he does to some extent.

And I'm sure it ESPECIALLY crossed Tito's mind to be ultra-aggressive and not allow Machida to do what he does.

Regardless of trying to read past Machida opponent's minds, it seems to me that everyone wants to push the pace on Machida. But when they do and get a taste of what many on this board call "pitty-pat punches" that Machida throws, I think it hurts. And as a result, they have to be careful moving forward.

No one has gone against Machida saying "Okay, I'm going to let this be a boring fight"

So having a guy say "I'm going to do something no one else has done... I will move forward aggressively on Machida and not let him do what he does." doesn't hold a whole lot of weight with me.

Especially a guy that hasn't fought any top competition (make the excuses you want about Machida, but he has faced tougher competition than Silva has) and has been rocked pretty badly as recently as his last fight.

We'll see come fight night, but I'm all in on Machida.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Split said:


> If he fights like he says he will, not so sure. To beat those kind of fighters, i think its either all in, or all out. Go for the kill, or be very patient and wait for Machida to stop stepping out of range.
> 
> However, you are(well the rest of Machida fans as well) counting on the fact that machida's counterstriking is perfect and unbeatable. Sokoudjou managed to land a few hard shots before he was down and dominated.
> 
> ...


sokky has small, fast, powerful combos.

T.Silva will throw hard an entire fight. Sokky might be more powerful for a few combos but outside of the first round T.Silva is far more powerful.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

I think Machida will beat Silva pretty convincingly. Thiago hasn't done anything to make me believe he can beat Machida.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

stitch1z said:


> What I'm saying, though, is that every fighter that has watched tape on him knows what he does to some extent.
> 
> And I'm sure it ESPECIALLY crossed Tito's mind to be ultra-aggressive and not allow Machida to do what he does.
> 
> ...


No one has really pushed the pace on Machida in the UFC besides Sokky.

So I hae no clue what you are talking about. Tito did it in the third round and while he got rocked with a knee he also got the fight to the ground and almost won.

Two fighters have really pushed the pace on Machida in the UFC and both had the fight hit the ground that's what Thiago wants. I'm not understanding how pushing the pace against Machida is the wrong gameplan for Thiago?

I understand if you don't think he will win but it is the gameplan that gives him the best chance to win.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

i am soo ******* tired of mahidas bandwagon ... hope it gets smashed by thiago


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

imrik32 said:


> What a moron. He's going to counter the fact that machida counter attacks by...attacking...Yeah that'll work!


Should he counter by countering? *Someone* has to attack, and it sure won't be Lyoto "The Snooze" Machida...


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## Split (Sep 28, 2006)

stitch1z said:


> What I'm saying, though, is that every fighter that has watched tape on him knows what he does to some extent.
> 
> And I'm sure it ESPECIALLY crossed Tito's mind to be ultra-aggressive and not allow Machida to do what he does.
> 
> ...



Agree with you there. Hence why you cant go half in, its do or die. Tito probably never had the tools to do it. His striking is not bad, but hes not striker really.

About Machida hurting or not, its really relative.. if you say Machida hurts, then a guy like Quinton Jackson must F*CKING hurt, see what i mean? Anybody who has taken a punch in the face knows its not confortable(even with gloves..), but i am guessing for a real fighter, he can take it. Punches on the chin is completly different however, and thats how Machida has dropped people in the past(and people moving on the punches).

Like i said earlier, that gameplan works if you have the tools. And for this guy, i doubt it, but again, i dont know much, i have seen i think 3 fights of him, and i barely remember.



69nites said:


> sokky has small, fast, powerful combos.
> 
> T.Silva will throw hard an entire fight. Sokky might be more powerful for a few combos but outside of the first round T.Silva is far more powerful.


I see what you mean, but my point was that Machida is not untouchable. Also, like you said, Thiago can probably throw for a lot longer than Sokoudjou, but my point was rather that Sokoudjou might of had what it took to hit Machida,even if its for the first few mins, while im not sure if Thiago can hit him at all. Against Machida, its more speed and combos that will do the trick, not hitting harder(gotta connect to hit hard  ).

I am hoping for T.Silva's prediction, a quick KO so the card can move on.

Or for a sudden machida wake up call and he suddenly starts being offensive, that would be insane. I would jump on his train in that case.


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## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

The only way i see Silva winning is by turning the fight into an ugly brawl, if you get my meaning, Machida is a "dancer" and will quite happily stay on the outside and pick Silva apart, where as Sivas only real hope in a 3 round fight is literally to stand toe to toe and make it a real ugly brawl.


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## Split (Sep 28, 2006)

oh and just for fun, i would like to see Thiago dance around for the first 5 mins, to see if we can beat the record of less strikes thrown for a full round... or if the ref will give point deduction for not engaging :thumb02:


(Im kidding..)


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

WoW....so Thiago is gonna implement a strategy that hasnt been successful up to this point.......Sweet...another win for Lyoto.........:thumb02:


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## Uchaaa (Apr 22, 2007)

stitch1z said:


> What I'm saying, though, is that every fighter that has watched tape on him knows what he does to some extent.
> 
> And I'm sure it ESPECIALLY crossed Tito's mind to be ultra-aggressive and not allow Machida to do what he does.
> 
> ...



Thats what I think too. Everyone says I will press the action against machida. But in the cage they dont do it. Because everytime you attack machida, you get hit.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Funny thing Thiago comes from Chute Boxe those guys love to be hit lol.

Look at Shogun, Ninja, Wandy, and Cyborg.

I doubt he will curl into a ball so he can avoid getting hit by Machida.

Thiago will come foward and their is a chance he gets knocked out but I doubt he will be scared to push the pace.


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## chuck fan (russ) (Nov 13, 2006)

I think machida will pick silva apart from the start, although people call machida's evasive syle 'running away' its beside the point that a good fighter knows how to counter punch and avoid getting hit. Surely to me this is a better option than hitting a guy and then letting them have there turn ( a kind of old style musketeer battle if you know what i mean? )


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> No, you really haven't. You almost got your block knocked-off by Antonio "The Child Molester" Mendes, I expect Lyoto to make you look as over-rated as I think you are.


Exactly, the toughest fighter he has faced was Houston Alexander. Houston "My chin is made of fine china and my ground game sucks" Alexander. THiago Silva will get whomped in this fight. Machida will make him look extremely bad.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

there are fighters that are afraid to take a punch to get to the inside (almost everyone machida has faced) and then there's people who say "lyoto isn't knocking me out, what the hell should I be afraid of?".

You guys can say machida's better all you want, a guy who's willing to walk through machida's counters is the guy that can hit him in the face.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Machida's been hit in the face by Sam freakin' Greco. Dude's chin is solid.

Also, it's going to be tough to hit Lyoto when you're constantly getting punched and kneed in the face.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Damone said:


> Machida's been hit in the face by Sam freakin' Greco. Dude's chin is solid.
> 
> Also, it's going to be tough to hit Lyoto when you're constantly getting punched and kneed in the face.


machida tries to throw knees and he's deffinatly going to the ground. Without question. and you don't want to be there with Thiago on top of you.

thiago has yet to fight anyone without leaving them in a doctor's care, I don't expect this fight to be any different.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

You're forgetting that Machida's a BJJ blackbelt himself, and has some excellent sweeps.

People, Lyoto Machida is not a one-dimensional striker. The guy knows his ground stuff.


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## Uchaaa (Apr 22, 2007)

The worst thing about this fight is that I have to wait so long to see it


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Damone said:


> You're forgetting that Machida's a BJJ blackbelt himself, and has some excellent sweeps.
> 
> People, Lyoto Machida is not a one-dimensional striker. The guy knows his ground stuff.


I'm well aware of his ground game. Silva has good enough jitz to keep him safe from submission but his GnP is seriously destructive. As long as he stays on top he has a clearcut advantage. Machida's best chance is to keep it standing and do what he does best.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Villian said:


> All jokes aside thiago is right about machida running more than fighting and i really think the state athletic commission should get involved.machida is in violation of the rules set forth. see below
> 
> Rule 16:*Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent*, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.


 
you better tell Dan Henderson his win over pallhares and Mike Bisbing's win over Leben dont count either then....lol

If you are serious you really need to examine your definition of a fight....they both were locked in a cage and only one could win and your gonna try to make a case that an elusive guy like Machida is cheating or worthy of getting the Athletic Commission involved.......do you realize how stupid you sound???:dunno:

Next time any fighter moves outta the way of a punch he is cheating for *avoiding contact with opponent....*

Hillarious....think bro


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

coldcall420 said:


> you better tell Dan Henderson his win over pallhares and Mike Bisbing's win over Leben dont count either then....lol
> 
> If you are serious you really need to examine your definition of a fight....they both were locked in a cage and only one could win and your gonna try to make a case that an elusive guy like Machida is cheating or worthy of getting the Athletic Commission involved.......do you realize how stupid you sound???:dunno:
> 
> ...


people could get rule 16 pulled on machida if they moved forward but never tried to strike at machida. Because they are moving forward they won't be penalised but since machida won't strike without someone else throwing first he's looking at getting the rulebook pulled on him.

It would be a major bitch move tho. I guess no more of a bitch move than Machida playing the point game tho.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

If that's his game plan, easy win for Machida. He waits for people to make mistakes and Thaigo will leave something open while trying to empose his gameplan.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

yorT said:


> If that's his game plan, easy win for Machida. He waits for people to make mistakes and Thaigo will leave something open while trying to empose his gameplan.


the thing about that is machida "punishes" like a parrent spanking their children. It only works if the kid's afraid of it because it damn sure doesn't hurt .


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

69nites said:


> people could get rule 16 pulled on machida if they moved forward but never tried to strike at machida. Because they are moving forward they won't be penalised but since machida won't strike without someone else throwing first he's looking at getting the rulebook pulled on him.
> 
> It would be a major bitch move tho. I guess no more of a bitch move than Machida playing the point game tho.


How many switch-kicks did he land on Tito? He definitely threw those withouta strike thrown by Tito. He will likely work the same kind of stuff in this fight.

I want Thiago to win this, but I just don't see it happening...


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

All_In_GSP said:


> How many switch-kicks did he land on Tito? He definitely threw those withouta strike thrown by Tito. He will likely work the same kind of stuff in this fight.
> 
> I want Thiago to win this, but I just don't see it happening...


for the record, those kicks looked about as hard as his punches.

he even threw a BS double kick.


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## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> No one has really pushed the pace on Machida in the UFC besides Sokky.
> 
> So I hae no clue what you are talking about. Tito did it in the third round and while he got rocked with a knee he also got the fight to the ground and almost won.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying it's the wrong gameplan. I'm just saying that it's also kind of a no-brainer. When has Thiago's gameplan not been to be ultra-aggressive and really go after the other guy?

To consolidate the point I was trying to make:
It's pretty likely that all of Machida's opponents (including pre-UFC) have planned to keep it coming and not let him implement his gameplan of basically not getting hit.

When they actually try to implement that, it seems they get punished everytime they try to close the distance. So much so, that it becomes less attractive to go after him like that once they are actually in the fight.

I don't know who I'd give the edge to on the ground (and I agree with you, that's where this fight will most likely end up), but Machida's definitely no slouch. He almost got subbed by Tito, but literally no one could have seen that coming. And more importantly, he didn't get subbed.


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## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

69nites said:


> the thing about that is machida "punishes" like a parrent spanking their children. It only works if the kid's afraid of it because it damn sure doesn't hurt .


Ask Tito if that body kick in the 3rd round felt like a little spankin. Sure looked like it did some damage to me...

:dunno:


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## Split (Sep 28, 2006)

TeamNogpwns said:


> Ask Tito if that body kick in the 3rd round felt like a little spankin. Sure looked like it did some damage to me...
> 
> :dunno:


yeah it was such a hard body kick that it actually wasnt one.

meh i had enough of talking about Machida, its all been talked about before, no need to repeat.


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## randyspankstito (Sep 25, 2006)

Win lose or Draw, with that strategy, Thiago's face is going to look like a map of the amazon when the fights over. 

It's the classic brawler vs. boxer matchup, and the boxer usually wins. 

Though, it will be entertaining to watch for sure, as Thiago is anything but a boring fighter, I just see him getting picked apart as he wades in there, over and over again for three rounds.


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## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

randyspankstito said:


> Win lose or Draw, with that strategy, Thiago's face is going to look like a map of the amazon when the fights over.
> 
> It's the classic brawler vs. boxer matchup, and the boxer usually wins.
> 
> Though, it will be entertaining to watch for sure, as Thiago is anything but a boring fighter, I just see him getting picked apart as he wades in there, over and over again* for three rounds*.


I personally think Machida's going to KO silva.


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## randyspankstito (Sep 25, 2006)

stitch1z said:


> I personally think Machida's going to KO silva.


That could happen too.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

stitch1z said:


> I personally think Machida's going to KO silva.


what makes you think that?


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

TeamNogpwns said:


> Ask Tito if that body kick in the 3rd round felt like a little spankin. Sure looked like it did some damage to me...
> 
> :dunno:


That was about the only hard thing Tito took. And Tito's triangle was a lot closer to finishing the fight than Lyoto's kick. In fact, his triangle had a better chance of finishing the fight than ALL of Lyoto's strikes put together.


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## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

69nites said:


> what makes you think that?


I think Thiago will make good on his promise of continually coming forward and he will find out why everyone else abandoned that gameplan once they tasted some of Machida's "BS" counter-punches.

Watch any of Machida's fights. When you close the distance, you get punished.


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

stitch1z said:


> Watch any of Machida's fights. When you close the distance, you get punished.


I feel like I'M being punished every time I watch any of Machida's fights.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

stitch1z said:


> I think Thiago will make good on his promise of continually coming forward and he will find out why everyone else abandoned that gameplan once they tasted some of Machida's "BS" counter-punches.
> 
> Watch any of Machida's fights. When you close the distance, you get punished.


I watch machida's fights. I don't see any real punishment. Post fight I see little bruising (if any) on the faces of his opponents. on the other hand if you look at thiago's opponents they're usually being cared for by the ringside doctor and loaded into an ambulance...

Thiago Silva has taken harder shots than Machida has thrown in his entire career (not an exaggeration) on the button and kept moving forward to KO his opponent...


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## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

69nites said:


> I watch machida's fights. I don't see any real punishment. Post fight I see little bruising (if any) on the faces of his opponents. on the other hand if you look at thiago's opponents they're usually being cared for by the ringside doctor and loaded into an ambulance...
> 
> Thiago Silva has taken harder shots than Machida has thrown in his entire career (not an exaggeration) on the button and kept moving forward to KO his opponent...


I'm not going to argue with you or try to convert you. After the fight we will see. 

But personally, my prediction is that Silva gets rocked by Machida and pounded out.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

I love all the love people wanna give Thiago Silva and how sure they are that Lyoto will get walked through and Thiago's most notable win is over who again....??? Im not saying that as if lyoto has fought the top talent but people on this thread speak of Silva like he's a dominant force but the guy is yet to fight a top tier guy.....I'm not sold yet and Im not saying lyoto will def win in this case but stop anointing Silva till he does somthing to deserve it.....


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

stitch1z said:


> I'm not going to argue with you or try to convert you. After the fight we will see.
> 
> But personally, my prediction is that Silva gets rocked by Machida and pounded out.


::shrugs:: 2 options for the end of this fight; thiago by (T)KO in any round but most likely the first or second or Machida by decision.

Machida doesn't have the tools to finish thiago if you don't see it you're blind.


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## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

69nites said:


> ::shrugs:: 2 options for the end of this fight; thiago by (T)KO in any round but most likely the first or second or Machida by decision.
> 
> *Machida doesn't have the tools to finish thiago if you don't see it you're blind.*


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

coldcall420 said:


> I love all the love people wanna give Thiago Silva and how sure they are that Lyoto will get walked through and Thiago's most notable win is over who again....??? Im not saying that as if lyoto has fought the top talent but people on this thread speak of Silva like he's a dominant force but the guy is yet to fight a top tier guy.....I'm not sold yet and Im not saying lyoto will def win in this case but stop anointing Silva till he does somthing to deserve it.....


I'm with you on that. BUT I just think that the only reason lyoto has been successful is because no one has found the way to beat him and that after someone does his career is over because he poses no real danger to any fighter.

Thiago's weaknesses are out there waiting to be capitalized on and he continues to win in devastating fashion.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

69nites said:


> ::shrugs:: 2 options for the end of this fight; thiago by (T)KO in any round but most likely the first or second or Machida by decision.
> 
> Machida doesn't have the tools to finish thiago if you don't see it you're blind.


Man I was the first Thiago Silva fan on this forum. I love the guy.

I dislike Machida as well but are you serious come on now.

Thiago gets rocked a good amount and Machida's not exciting but he is very skilled.

With Thiago's gameplan it's very possible he loses by TKO.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> Man I was the first Thiago Silva fan on this forum. I love the guy.
> 
> I dislike Machida as well but are you serious come on now.
> 
> ...


he gets rocked by HARD shots. the likes of which happen 0-1 time on average in Machida's fights.

and while he is rocked he always seems to do damage himself as opposed to taking it.


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## Where'stheCrow? (Nov 28, 2007)

69nites said:


> ::shrugs:: 2 options for the end of this fight; thiago by (T)KO in any round but most likely the first or second or Machida by decision.
> 
> Machida doesn't have the tools to finish thiago if you don't see it you're blind.


That's not necessarily true. If Silva over commits and walks into one of Machida's punches, I could see him going down because of Machida's accuracy. He doesn't have to hit like a fuckin tank to knock someone out. I'm not sure why you're so quick to say he doesn't have the tools to finish Thiago...even if it does seem unlikely to you.

I actually think Machida will win by TKO.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Where'stheCrow? said:


> That's not necessarily true. If Silva over commits and walks into one of Machida's punches, I could see him going down because of Machida's accuracy. He doesn't have to hit like a fuckin tank to knock someone out. I'm not sure why you're so quick to say he doesn't have the tools to finish Thiago...even if it does seem unlikely to you.
> 
> I actually think Machida will win by TKO.


I don't see him pulling a kimbo and diving onto a jab landing chin first. Tho that is probably the only way I see Machida knocking him out.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Thiago does a great job of recovering and doing damage no doubt but against Machida there is a good chance he gets rocked and he gets TKO'd not due to damage but from just not being able to protect himself.

I think Thiago will win but he's clearly the underdog and he should be but his strategy gives him a shot at getting it down and winning.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

69nites said:


> Finally this fight is going to happen and I can stop arguing with you about it .


I can't wait either, because I'm tired of having to tell you you're wrong all the time, so Machida will for me. :thumbsup:



bbjd7 said:


> So I hae no clue what you are talking about. Tito did it in the third round and while he got rocked with a knee he also got the fight to the ground and almost won.


I don't understand this part of what you said, Tito didn't get the fight to the ground, he was dropped by a body shot and Lyoto chose to follow him down there. Tito followed Machida around, but in no way was he pushing the pace of the fight. :dunno:



Damone said:


> Exactly, the toughest fighter he has faced was Houston Alexander. Houston "My chin is made of fine china and my ground game sucks" Alexander. THiago Silva will get whomped in this fight. Machida will make him look extremely bad.


My thoughts exactly. 

Machida trains with Anderson Silva and Rogerio, does anyone realistically believe he's not going to be prepared for Thiago's aggressive Chute Boxe style? As I've said time and time again, Thiago's style is tailor-made to lose to Machida, unless he makes this a grappling match. Even then, Tito's a better wrestler than Thiago and Tito couldn't get Lyoto on his back.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> I don't understand this part of what you said, Tito didn't get the fight to the ground, he was dropped by a body shot and Lyoto chose to follow him down there. Tito followed Machida around, but in no way was he pushing the pace of the fight. :dunno:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What I was saying is by pushing the pace he got dropped but the fight also went to the ground. It's not like it was his intent but fast paced fights usually hit the ground.

I think Thiago will try to turn this into a ground fight which is why I'm picking him and the difference between him and Tito is Tito was shooting from the outside I think Thiago will close the distance and get him down.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> What I was saying is by pushing the pace he got dropped but the fight also went to the ground. It's not like it was his intent but fast paced fights usually hit the ground.


Well what you said was he got the fight to the ground, which he didn't do voluntarily. You make it sound like he got it there from a takedown, when in actuality it was him getting rocked by a body shot that got the fight there. In any case, the whole last minute of Machida/Ortiz was amazing.



bbjd7 said:


> I think Thiago will try to turn this into a ground fight which is why I'm picking him and the difference between him and Tito is Tito was shooting from the outside I think Thiago will close the distance and get him down.


From what I've seen Thiago's glaring weakness is his wrestling, even Houston Alexander chokeslammed him to the ground. Lyoto's shown a wider array of skills than Thiago has, and he's looked better doing it against tougher competition.


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## Danomac (Oct 15, 2006)

Seems to me like the people picking Silva are more Lyoto haters than Silva fans.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

K my mistake I meant he picked up the pace and the fight got to the ground.

Also While Thiago's wrestling isn't fantastic I think his pace will get him his takedown if not in the first round in the 2nd because if Thiago really pushes the pace Machida is going to be doing a lot of moving early on to counter Thiago's pace.

Danomac I love Thiago I liked the guy before he even made his UFC debut back when I liked every guy (besides Fabio Silva) to come out of Chute Boxe.


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## Split (Sep 28, 2006)

Danomac said:


> Seems to me like the people picking Silva are more Lyoto haters than Silva fans.


duh


Just like all the new Machida fans were mostly Ortiz haters.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

Gluteal Cleft said:


> That was about the only hard thing Tito took. And Tito's triangle was a lot closer to finishing the fight than Lyoto's kick. In fact, his triangle had a better chance of finishing the fight than ALL of Lyoto's strikes put together.





69nites said:


> I watch machida's fights. I don't see any real punishment. Post fight *I see little bruising (if any) on the faces of his opponent*s. on the other hand if you look at thiago's opponents they're usually being cared for by the ringside doctor and loaded into an ambulance...
> 
> Thiago Silva has taken harder shots than Machida has thrown in his entire career (not an exaggeration) on the button and kept moving forward to KO his opponent...


This is just the Tito fight: (Doesn't the doc know there is no damage on Tito's face)








He's hiding his face well but you can see bruising under is right eye and on his nose.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Danomac said:


> Seems to me like the people picking Silva are more Lyoto haters than Silva fans.


Hehe, that's because Lyoto is a pain in the ass for many fans and also for the UFC management because he's not "spectacular"/marketable but still wins all his fights. If he doesn't win his next couple of fights in a spectacular fashion, a la Evans, I don't see him getting his shot anytime soon.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Danomac said:


> Seems to me like the people picking Silva are more Lyoto haters than Silva fans.


nah I'm a Silva fan.

I don't really mind lyoto just think he's still unproven and sick of people thinking he's the best guy in the division. I blame Tito just as much for that particular fight being boring and don't really find the rest of lyoto's fights so bad at all.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

69nites said:


> nah I'm a Silva fan.
> 
> I don't really mind lyoto just think he's *still unproven* and sick of people thinking he's the best guy in the division. I blame Tito just as much for that particular fight being boring and don't really find the rest of lyoto's fights so bad at all.


Yet you're supporting Thiago who is even less proven? :confused02:


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

To be fair Fedor>ALL Thiago gets way less love around here then Lyoto although you have a valid point.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> Yet you're supporting Thiago who is even less proven? :confused02:


that's because thiago's ridiculously UNDERrated . Not to mention I'm a big fan of his . And not much less unproven.


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

demoman993 said:


> I'm definately going to be looking forward to this fight. *Thiago has quite the resume although he hasn't beaten anyone worthy of mention.* I see Lyoto frustrating him and subbing him in the third round.


Yes, totally unlike Machida who has beaten the people like umm... err... nevermind.

I find both of them overrated, but because I find Silva more entertaining than Machida I hope his game plan works and he messes Machida up. Should put more meaning into Machida's "Im like a ghost" -quote when his title shot dreams die. ^^


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

69nites said:


> that's because thiago's ridiculously UNDERrated . Not to mention I'm a big fan of his . And not much less unproven.


He's not under-rated, he is what he is. A solid fighter who hasn't faced anyone that poses a significant threat to him.  He had a hell of a time with Tomasz Drwal and Antonio Mendes who aren't that great of strikers compared to Lyoto. 

Under-rated is someone like Jon Fitch, who faced and beat really good competition with little to no attention.  Thiago hasn't faced and beaten anyone warranting any praise, he's a middle of the pack LHW, neither under-rated or over-rated.


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> He's not under-rated, he is what he is. A solid fighter who hasn't faced anyone that poses a significant threat to him.  He had a hell of a time with Tomasz Drwal and Antonio Mendes who aren't that great of strikers compared to Lyoto.
> 
> Under-rated is someone like Jon Fitch, who faced and beat really good competition with little to no attention.  Thiago hasn't faced and beaten anyone warranting any praise, he's a middle of the pack LHW, neither under-rated or over-rated.


But, but, but, his last name is Silva. :dunno:


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

^And he does that throat cutting thing it's awesome.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> He's not under-rated, he is what he is. A solid fighter who hasn't faced anyone that poses a significant threat to him.  He had a hell of a time with Tomasz Drwal and Antonio Mendes who aren't that great of strikers compared to Lyoto.
> 
> Under-rated is someone like Jon Fitch, who faced and beat really good competition with little to no attention.  Thiago hasn't faced and beaten anyone warranting any praise, he's a middle of the pack LHW, neither under-rated or over-rated.


not vere off track, but i'd say the opposite...jon fitch is overrated...he has a bloated record full of mediocore fighters and the only top fighter he beat when he fought them was diego and it was a controversial split decision with fitch doing no damage for 15 minutes...aside from that he really has no wins that stand out to me and go 'wow'..kinda like joe daddy was b4 he got exposed....he fought mediocore fighters and beat them...big deal

on track however, it's about time thiago silva is facing an opponent who doesn't fold like a paper airplane and get mounted at will on the ground...


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Chrisl972 said:


> But, but, but, his last name is Silva. :dunno:


Touché.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> He's not under-rated, he is what he is. A solid fighter who hasn't faced anyone that poses a significant threat to him.  He had a hell of a time with Tomasz Drwal and Antonio Mendes who aren't that great of strikers compared to Lyoto.
> 
> Under-rated is someone like Jon Fitch, who faced and beat really good competition with little to no attention.  Thiago hasn't faced and beaten anyone warranting any praise, he's a middle of the pack LHW, neither under-rated or over-rated.


I sense a zinger about my overuse of the  smiley here....

Silva has destroyed everyone he's faught. Lyoto doesn't have much in the way of impressive victories and was only the underdog in the fight against Sokki (in the ufc). Silva has pretty much been rated a coin flip with everyone and destroyed them...


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

69nites said:


> I sense a zinger about my overuse of the  smiley here....


GADZOOKS, NOT A ZINGER!




69nites said:


> Silva has destroyed everyone he's faught.


He hasn't been fighting guys anywhere near his talent though, so to me those wins are worthless beyond padding his stats. 




69nites said:


> Lyoto doesn't have much in the way of impressive victories and was only the underdog in the fight against Sokki (in the ufc).


His wins are impressive in different ways. He doesn't just pick his opponents apart physically, mentally destroys them. They never know what to do, or what's coming next. He's fought more guys that he has been ranked in-line with than Thiago.



69nites said:


> Silva has pretty much been rated a coin flip with everyone and destroyed them...


Please tell me you're kidding. Silva has been the favourite in all of his UFC fights except the Houston Alexander fight (which was just plain stupid on the part of the odds-makers), are you sure you're a Silva fan?


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

He wasn't a favorite over Houston Alexander in fact most people where picking against him.

He was a favorite over Mendes that's it.

He was about even with Drwal because he got rocked in his fight with Irvin.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> He wasn't a favorite over Houston Alexander in fact most people where picking against him.
> 
> He was a favorite over Mendes that's it.
> 
> He was about even with Drwal because he got rocked in his fight with Irvin.





F>A said:


> Please tell me you're kidding. Silva has been the favourite in all of his UFC fights except the Houston Alexander fight (which was just plain stupid on the part of the odds-makers), are you sure you're a Silva fan?


bbjd7 said it all.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> He wasn't a favorite over Houston Alexander in fact most people where picking against him.
> 
> He was a favorite over Mendes that's it.
> 
> He was about even with Drwal because he got rocked in his fight with Irvin.


Go look at some of the betting odds bbjd, Houston Alexander was a favourite for some of them.

Thiago was the favourite against Mendes.

It's unknown with the Drwal match because there weren't betting odds for that fight (due to its undercard status).



69nites said:


> bbjd7 said it all.


He said nothing at all that helped your nonsensical statement. :dunno:

The point still stands, Thiago hasn't fought anyone on the same level as him, he's been matched-up against guys that were clearly easy style match-ups for him and he struggled against 2/3 of them.


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## BJJ Fight Team (Nov 19, 2008)

:confused02: im not here to talk odds and ends. im here to say thiago will win this fight! it's a lock if you bet bet on it.


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## The Finisher (Mar 23, 2008)

I can't wait until this Machida nonsense is over. I hope Silva KOs his A$$.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> Go look at some of the betting odds bbjd, Houston Alexander was a favourite for some of them.
> 
> Thiago was the favourite against Mendes.
> 
> ...


sorry

Mendez was the only fight where thiago was a favorite and he wasn't a heavy favorite either by my recollection.... while there were no betting odds prior to the drwal matchup he wasn't favored to win in most people's predictions.

if by struggle you mean win by TKO/SUB as opposed to eeking out 30-27 decisions and getting a sub on (surprise surprise) a gassed in the second round Sokoudjou.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

No offense Fedor>All but what betting place had Thiago as the favorite over Houston? I remember betting on MMAplayground and getting crazy odds on Thiago.

I'm not disagreeing with you too much on this just the fact Thiago was the underdog in 1 of his fights, and the favorite in the other.


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## BJJ Fight Team (Nov 19, 2008)

The Finisher said:


> I can't wait until this Machida nonsense is over. I hope Silva KOs his A$$.


:thumb02:


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

I don't see any reason to think that Thiago Silva will be able to do what nobody else has been able to do.

Thiago Silva is good, but he hasn't beaten anybody good enough to make me believe that he'll be able to stop Machida.


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## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

I think this is the exact game plan that Thiago needs to have to win this fight. Unfortunately Machida is the man at making people fight his fight so well see if Thiago can actually stick to it.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

Davisty69 said:


> I don't see any reason to think that Thiago Silva will be able to do what nobody else has been able to do.
> 
> Thiago Silva is good, but he hasn't beaten anybody good enough to make me believe that he'll be able to stop Machida.


That's cause he isn't. People will realize after this fight just how technical Machida is.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> No, you really haven't. You almost got your block knocked-off by Antonio "The Child Molester" Mendes, I expect Lyoto to make you look as over-rated as I think you are.


Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> No offense Fedor>All but what betting place had Thiago as the favorite over Houston? I remember betting on MMAplayground and getting crazy odds on Thiago.
> 
> I'm not disagreeing with you too much on this just the fact Thiago was the underdog in 1 of his fights, and the favorite in the other.


Ask and ye shall receive an answer! Also, MMAPlayground does not use Vegas bookie odds, favourites are picked moreso by hardcore MMA guys that know what they're talking about.




> Also on the card, Thiago Silva will face Houston "The Assassin" Alexander in what will be another stellar heavyweight fight. Silva enters the Octagon at an impressive 11-0 but oddsmakers aren't showing him much respect, as UFC odds display him the underdog of +110.
> 
> He'll look for the mild upset with aggressiveness and solid striking skills, which he used on Sept. 8 in UFC 75 to produce a technical knock out over Tomasz Drwal in his last fight.
> 
> ...


http://www.betus.com/sports-betting/ufc/articles/bet-on-ufc-ufc-78-validation/


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I am starting to think more people care about this fight than any other fight this monty, which says a lot for a fight that is not (no guarantee) going to determine the next person to fight the 205 champ.


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

I have Machida by (t)ko.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Interesting much closer then I remembered.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I love everyone on this thread saying Machida has no power and can't knock Thiago out and can't "punish" him, or anyone for that matter. 

Tell me, if this is the case, why exactly do people stay away from him to avoid getting hit? I mean, if he has no knockout power, no ability to punish people, why didn't Tito just run in there and attack without trying to avoid anything?

I mean, if Machida can't hurt you, punish you, knock you out, why not just open your hands and throw some bombs and catch him, full pace. It's not like you'll get hurt or punished at all.

The length that people will go to, to try and bring down a skilled fighter based on the fact that they don't like his figthing style, is ridiculous.


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## Suizida (Feb 29, 2008)

Machida will wreck Thiago.....and im leading the wagon for Machida


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

Davisty69 said:


> I don't see any reason to think that Thiago Silva will be able to do what nobody else has been able to do.
> 
> Thiago Silva is good, but he hasn't beaten anybody good enough to make me believe that he'll be able to stop Machida.


I don't see any reason to think that Lyoto Machida will be able to do what nobody else has been able to do.

Lyoto Machida is good, but he hasn't beaten anybody good enough to make me believe that he'll be able to stop Silva.

:thumb02:

The Machida hype is getting crazy. Its 1 thing to be undefeated while fighting top competion (Fedor, Rashad) and being undefeated fighting non top 10 guys. Machida might indeed be the next champ, but before that he has to earn the damn shot by beating some top 5 guy(s) like Forrest and Rashad did, then beat whoever has the belt at that point.

I even see people ranking Machida as high as top 5 on their p4p rankings. How on earth a guy whose only noticeable win is against Tito Ortiz (after his prime years) can be even close to top 10 p4p rankings? Mind boggling and insulting towards other LHWs.


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## cezwan (Dec 7, 2007)

To be honest, this fight doesn't do anything for me. I don't mind either fighter but i can see this becoming another 'Machida via decision' fight..

Good luck to Silva though, i hope this fight turns out to be a war.


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

I hope that even though both are over rated that the machida machine will die a horrible horrible death


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

Being a practioner in Karate before MMA, we do very well when people consistently attack us or rush us.

Many people are forgetting his Karate style and that fighting on the defensive is our bread and butter.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> not vere off track, but i'd say the opposite...jon fitch is overrated...he has a bloated record full of mediocore fighters and the only top fighter he beat when he fought them was diego and it was a controversial split decision with fitch doing no damage for 15 minutes...aside from that he really has no wins that stand out to me and go 'wow'..kinda like joe daddy was b4 he got exposed....he fought mediocore fighters and beat them...big deal


Way to ignore Chris Wilson and your own boy Alves who is also a top WW fighter. So is Alves "mediocre" then? Make your mind up.




69nites said:


> sorry
> 
> Mendez was the only fight where thiago was a favorite and he wasn't a heavy favorite either by my recollection....


Even bbjd disagrees with you and he's a big Thiago fan. You don't seem to have a very good memory.




69nites said:


> while there were no betting odds prior to the drwal matchup he wasn't favored to win in most people's predictions.


Provide some links instead of rewording your opinion and assuming that's what everyone else thought. I've read your opinion on top 10 lists, so I know that your ass is a frequent source of information. 




69nites said:


> if by struggle you mean win by TKO/SUB as opposed to eeking out 30-27 decisions and getting a sub on (surprise surprise) a gassed in the second round Sokoudjou.


No, by "struggle" I mean he couldn't put on dominating performances or he was on the brink of defeat. The Drwal fight was close until Drwal gassed. Mendes dropped Thiago with a head kick early in the first round, and Houston Alexander had Thiago shitting bricks in the clinch. I'm really starting to wonder if you even watched these fights.

And "eeking" out decisions isn't giving Machida the credit he deserves. They weren't even close decisions, and before Machida fought Sokoudjou nobody knew what his cardio was like, so it's easy to play the hindsight game and be critical of Sokky.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> Way to ignore Chris Wilson and your own boy Alves who is also a top WW fighter. So is Alves "mediocre" then? Make your mind up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


EDIT: here it is!!! the thread on sherdog about the Drwal fight.

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/ufc-75-thiago-silva-vs-tomasz-drwal-630770/


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Diokhan said:


> I don't see any reason to think that Lyoto Machida will be able to do what nobody else has been able to do.
> 
> Lyoto Machida is good, but he hasn't beaten anybody good enough to make me believe that he'll be able to stop Silva.
> 
> ...


I'm not a Machida nuthugger... I think he is fantastic, but fairly un-entertaining. 

But... I will no way confuse
Antonio Mendes 
Houston Alexander 
Tomasz Drwal 
James Irvin...

with Tito Ortiz 
Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou
Kazuhiro Nakamura
David Heath 

They just simply aren't comparable...

Plus, nobody has some close to beating Machida (besides tito and that lucky triangle) like Mendes did to Silva. 

Silva will lose like all the rest.

And I'll take a sig bet on that if you want


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Davisty69 said:


> I'm not a Machida nuthugger... I think he is fantastic, but fairly un-entertaining.
> 
> But... I will no way confuse
> Antonio Mendes
> ...


For the record I think Mendes could (fairly easily) beat Sokoudjou. And Drwal and Sokoudjou are pretty much birds of a feather. Dangerous strikers that gas early.

and a win against tito hasn't meant anything for a really really long time. At least Irvin is the gatekeeper. All Ortiz had been doing is keeping Ken Shamrock at bay.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Your joking right? Sokky is 10x the fighter Drwal or Mendes is it's not even close.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Your joking right? Sokky is 10x the fighter Drwal or Mendes is it's not even close.


Agreed... People are seeing how bad tito and Sokky did against Machida and thinking they are crap. Machida would have mopped the floor wed Mendes, as well as Drwal.

This is just dumb... I don't even like Machida, but I can clearly see that he has a style that his opponents cannot figure out. There is no reason to think that Silva will be able to figure is out.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I agree with that I don't think Thiago will figure Lyoto out.

But by using pace you can beat opponents who are better then you skill wise and I think Thiago will do that.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Davisty69 said:


> Agreed... People are seeing how bad tito and Sokky did against Machida and thinking they are crap. Machida would have mopped the floor wed Mendes, as well as Drwal.
> 
> This is just dumb... I don't even like Machida, but I can clearly see that he has a style that his opponents cannot figure out. There is no reason to think that Silva will be able to figure is out.


Sokky got exposed for his weakness and is no longer competative. 

Tito hasn't had a substancial win since 05.

those are the reasons people think they're crap. It has nothing to do with machida.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

69nites said:


> EDIT: here it is!!! the thread on *sherdog* about the Drwal fight.
> 
> http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/ufc-75-thiago-silva-vs-tomasz-drwal-630770/


:laugh:

I rest my case.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> :laugh:
> 
> I rest my case.


Came up first on google and at least they had a thread specific to the fight!

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/18255-ufc-75-champion-vs-champion-discussion-thread.html

you can sift through this and see the picks were about half and half for it but that's 18 pages'o'fun mostly unrelated.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Bro stop Thiago wasn't the underdog trust me I was here talking about him.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Seriously, link me to a source beyond a forum that suggests Drwal was the favourite to win.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

did I miss something?


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Nah I thought you guys were talking bout Houston you got the right card nevermind.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

I never said he was an underdog. I said it was a coinflip...

and there's not much for sources outside of forums for prelim fights. it's not like they get much press coverage...


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

69nites said:


> I never said he was an underdog. I said it was a coinflip...
> 
> and there's not much for sources outside of forums for prelim fights. it's not like they get much press coverage...



I actually went through that thread you suggested and I've determined that I can't take anything you say seriously. 

You're a liar, out of the posts prior to UFC 75 only 2/4 posters picked Drwal to win, ONE of them has three posts EVER on the forum, with TheJame being the only legitimate poster believing Drwal was going to win.

These are the people out of that thread who picked Silva to win:

6sidedlie 
Damone

Those are two VERY credible members versus one, and a complete anomaly on the forum. 

You were wrong, plain and simple. Next time don't waste my time with useless threads that only prove my point.


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## Suizida (Feb 29, 2008)

Can we please get back on discussion about the present fight
Thiago is going to fall victim to Machida's awesomeness. Thiago will realise during the fight that his gameplan, like the rest of the opponents, simply have no answer to Machida's strategy, but it will be an interesting fight as Thiago does like to push the fight. When Sokky pushed the fight it ended with him getting subbed, and personally i think we are going to see a TKO from Machida, as Thiago pushes the pace but has a better top and bottom ground game then Sokky. I also think that Thiago will be *not** able to take Machida down and if he can keep him there. He showed he's been working on his TDD in the Tito fight and he "is masterful at spinning away" and anytime he is ever on his back in the UFC he just sweeps them (Hoger and Sokky fight). Furthermore, the cage really is an advantage to Machida as it is a lot harder to cut off his angles from his footwork and box him into a corner as if he were in a ring, Machida uses the cage very well in making sure he is never really backed up. 

Anyway, sorry 69nites, but i dont see Thiago as much of a test for Machida, i wanted to see Machida fight a top 5 fighter like Rampage, or possibly Shogun, so he has a truly credible name to his list, because ppl look at his resume and say "well they aren't that good" but some people dont realise (because they dont watch his fights) how much he schools his opponents.

In summation, Machida by TKO, if not UD, then to fight for no.1 spot or straight for the title, depending on the outcome of the fight (like Rashad when he KO'ed chuck)


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> I actually went through that thread you suggested and I've determined that I can't take anything you say seriously.
> 
> You're a liar, out of the posts prior to UFC 75 only 2/4 posters picked Drwal to win, ONE of them has three posts EVER on the forum, with TheJame being the only legitimate poster believing Drwal was going to win.
> 
> ...


http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/18255-ufc-75-champion-vs-champion-discussion-thread-5.html#post323089

and I took this as a pick as well

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/18255-ufc-75-champion-vs-champion-discussion-thread-5.html#post318676

and this guy said his buddy picked Drwal.
http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/18255-ufc-75-champion-vs-champion-discussion-thread-10.html#post326778

I guess you've got a wicked case of selective reading. MMA forum was half and half and sherdog was pretty heavy toward Drawl. I'm pretty sure that's decent evidence that it was a coinflip...


----------



## Split (Sep 28, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> I love everyone on this thread saying Machida has no power and can't knock Thiago out and can't "punish" him, or anyone for that matter.
> 
> Tell me, if this is the case, why exactly do people stay away from him to avoid getting hit? I mean, if he has no knockout power, no ability to punish people, why didn't Tito just run in there and attack without trying to avoid anything?
> 
> ...


Not seeing how Machida 'generates' power ,thats ridiculous.


Since when do people 'stay away' from Machida? If anything, Machida is the one moving backwards. 

the definition of counterstriking is hitting when the other guy moves forward, hence he can just, at the limit, put his hand and the other guy runs towards it, he will get Koed.

Your logic makes no sense whatsoever, and im not picking on you, this is for all the fans that are as ridiculous as the pure haters of Machida.

You can argue all you want that Machida is so incredible, but dont go saying he has KO power or anything close, esp not with his hands.. When he started his career, he actually had a decent stance with hands close enough to his body to generate power.. now with his legs wide ready to sidestep with balls open to be hit, and hands on the side high and in front(like Ninja, but with hands more in front), and looking to loop some punches but he doesnt, so no power at all, its like watching Royce Gracie combined with Shungo Oyama standing, except Machida actually does it on purpose.

You can say hes a great counterstriker, thats granted, but not some incredible striker.. He is not some Anderson Silva who is dancing on the outside and stepping in whenever he wants. 

How many times did he knock down somebody without Koing him, or finishing him? That simply answers the question of if he has KO power or not.

And after all that, then the argument will be changed to 'why does it matter if he cant hurt people bad?', but the fact will remain the same, Machida does not hit hard.. 

It doesnt make him a kitty cat striker either, precise shots on the chin and kicks still hurt.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Split said:


> Not seeing how Machida 'generates' power ,thats ridiculous.
> 
> 
> Since when do people 'stay away' from Machida? If anything, Machida is the one moving backwards.
> ...


Machida having KO power is only one section of what I was talking about. 

I have seen posts in this thread alone that state that Machida cannot "punish" or "hurt" anyone. The fact is he Can hurt and punish, if he couldn't, no one would bother protecting their face. Tito was even bleeding at the end of their fight.

You saying the argument will go to "why does it matter if he can't hurt people bad?" is wrong, I won't change it to that because that's the complete opposite of what I'm saying. What I'm saying is Machida Can hurt people bad, he has dropped more fighters than just Tito(knee to the body). His hands? People aren't protecting their face for nothing. Having KO power the way he fights now is debatable, but him being able to punish you when you try to get inside is not. There is more to "punishment" than with your fists.

My post is pointed towards the ones that actually believe he is not doing any damage, not putting on any pain, is only landing baby shots and moving. When in reality, he has hurt and put people down before. 

KO? That's just one part of the post I made, and that is debatable.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

This Machida hate is getting ridiculous, no matter who Machida beats, it's always "he hasn't proven himself". 

Gripe #1: He hasn't beaten any top 10 fighters - Ortiz was easily top 10 still when he fought Machida. He's not "over the hill" in just his early 30s, he essentially beat everyone's favorite new LHW posterboy Rashad right before he fought Machida. If it wasn't for the fence grabbing point. Even if he hadn't, Tito has shown enough of a ground game for me to think that he might even have subbed Rashad. Heck, Tito still beats half this LHW div easily, he just doesn't match well against great counterstrikers with stellar TDD like Chuck and Machida. Also, Sokky was top 10 too.. his wins weren't flukes, and IMO his losses Machida and Banha are both the upcoming #1 and #2 in this LHW division. Banha would tear apart Thiago too, he's won his fights far more calmly and convincingly than Thiago's struggles against tier 2 opponents. Also, Franklin is a top 10 LHW, regardless of him "not proving" himself at LHW. He has only one loss at LHW and that is to Machida. His only other losses in his entire career are to the #1 p4p fighter in the UFC. Rich's amazing legacy and ability shown at MW doesn't magically disappear just because he cuts 20 lbs less, it's still the same guy.

Gripe #2: Machida's attacks have no power / his opponents faces don't look damaged after the fights:
look at the pics attached.
And Tito's already been posted. 

Gripe #3: Machida just runs away. 
Look at the pics again. Watch his fights. He DOMINATES his opponents. Unlike Thiago, who loses until he manages to get mount.

Thiago is gonna get his ass TKOd back down the ladder where Banha will slide him down a little further.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

69nites said:


> http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/18255-ufc-75-champion-vs-champion-discussion-thread-5.html#post323089
> 
> and I took this as a pick as well
> 
> ...


Your links just send me to page 5, where neither Tomasz Drwal or Thiago Silva's names are mentioned. I wasn't lying when I told you I already went through that thread. I even counted the person with 3 posts as a vote for Drwal, despite all he said is "Drwal is on a roll lately".




69nites said:


> I guess you've got a wicked case of selective reading. MMA forum was half and half and sherdog was pretty heavy toward Drawl. I'm pretty sure that's decent evidence that it was a coinflip...


If I had selective reading, I wouldn't direct every single comment made towards me in every single thread that I post in. I address everyone's points, I questioned your position based-on things you said, and you couldn't supply me anything to back-up your claims. Whereas I was able to provide proof through specific examples (the DIRECT links to betting odds sites) that Thiago was the underdog against Houston.

Seriously, if you're going to make fallacious claims, I expect you to cite your sources, and as soon as I read sherdog forums as a source then I'm obviously going to question how serious you are being.


----------



## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> so I know that your ass is a frequent source of information.





Fedor>all said:


> I'm really starting to wonder if you even watched these fights.


:laugh:



Back to studying for these ******* finals.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Good luck with that shit man. I just finished mine today, hand is still killing from the frantic pace I was writing at haha.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Chrisl972 said:


> I feel like I'M being punished every time I watch any of Machida's fights.


LOLOLOLOLOL

hahahhaha
great post
so true

Machida is a pain in everyones ass. The ufc, the fighters, the majority of mma fans.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Machida isn't as bad as everyone makes him out to be. However this is a perfect matchup. Complete opposite fighters in style and mind set. Thiago better be in great shape cuz he's going to be expending a lot of energy chasing him down.


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## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

Wow, this fight is getting a lot of attention already considering there are four UFCs before it and it isn't even the main event on January 31st! Nice to see I'm not the only one who's excited about this fight.:thumbsup:

I think Machida is going to take it standing up, but I don't know enough about either guy's ground game to know who's better there... Machida seems pretty sloppy for a BJJ black belt though from what I've seen.


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## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

Lyoto wins this fight easily, and the hate will continue...


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## ZeroPRIDE (Apr 12, 2006)

is it possible to win a fight before it happens? because hes already playing right into machida hands.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> Your links just send me to page 5, where neither Tomasz Drwal or Thiago Silva's names are mentioned. I wasn't lying when I told you I already went through that thread. I even counted the person with 3 posts as a vote for Drwal, despite all he said is "Drwal is on a roll lately".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it should take you direct to the posts but they are by the users; TheJame, nickyj, and pibmac.

I did cite. You failed to have the reading comprehension skills to see it. Hell I linked you direct to the posts but you couldn't get that right... You can tell by the fact that the links have the post number in them .

and here's some more links direct to the posts.
http://www.mmaforum.com/323089-post99.html
http://www.mmaforum.com/318676-post83.html
http://www.mmaforum.com/326778-post194.html


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

69nites said:


> it should take you direct to the posts but they are by the users; TheJame, nickyj, and pibmac.


The links you provided didn't do that.



69nites said:


> I did cite. You failed to have the reading comprehension skills to see it. Hell I linked you direct to the posts but you couldn't get that right... You can tell by the fact that the links have the post number in them .


It has nothing to do with reading comprehension, it has to do with your ineptitude towards providing concise links. The ones you provided below (which are completely different links) actually work, congratulations. I'm shocked.




69nites said:


> and here's some more links direct to the posts.
> http://www.mmaforum.com/323089-post99.html
> http://www.mmaforum.com/318676-post83.html
> http://www.mmaforum.com/326778-post194.html


lol, you really think that indicates it was a coinflip? One guy who trusted his friend (a friend who probably posts on sherdog like you) and another guy with 3 posts ever here. 

The only legitimately knowledgable MMAforum poster that picked Drwal was TheJame.

Once again, provide me some concrete information by the media that indicated it was a "coinflip". Thiago entered the favourite bud, you're really the only person that is arguing he didn't which says a lot.


----------



## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> The links you provided didn't do that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


one of the picks for silva in tha thread is forwarded with "I don't pretend to know much about the fighters" and you're going to get picky about a guy with 3 posts and someone who actually saw a Drwal fight prior to his fight with silva?

All I personally said was that the picks were half and half in that thread. You called me a liar.


----------



## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

Man, I'm tired of watching this bickering. 

Here's a link to the undercard betting lines for UFC 75. 

http://zewkey.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/ufc-75-champion-vs-champion-fight-betting-line-analysis/


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

69nites said:


> one of the picks for silva in tha thread is forwarded with "I don't pretend to know much about the fighters" and you're going to get picky about a guy with 3 posts and someone who actually saw a Drwal fight prior to his fight with silva?


I picked out the selections for Silva based-on forum credibility. I only pointed out Damone and 6sidedlie because those guys know their stuff, they understand the concept of favourites, unlike you and the guys you cited as credible sources on sherdog (LOL).




69nites said:


> All I personally said was that the picks were half and half in that thread. You called me a liar.


You still haven't provided me with a legit source to back your claim.



Chrisl972 said:


> Man, I'm tired of watching this bickering.
> 
> Here's a link to the undercard betting lines for UFC 75.
> 
> http://zewkey.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/ufc-75-champion-vs-champion-fight-betting-line-analysis/





> Thiago Silva (-325) Vs. Tomasz Drwal (+265)
> 
> We hoped to see just exactly what Silva could bring to the table in his UFC debut. Although he got the victory, it was mainly due to a freak injury to the knee of James Irvin. The same questions still surround Thiago: Just how good he can be? Is he indeed the next generation of Chute Box? Following in the footsteps of Wanderlei Silva, Mauricio “Shogun” Rua, and a host of others, Thiago remains unbeaten and poised to take the UFC by storm. Opposing him Is Drwal, who sports an impressive 14-1 record, but has certainly not fought fighters the caliber of Silva thus far in his career. Look for Silva to make his presence known in the UFC with an exciting win.


Thanks for the link Chris, I knew I wasn't crazy.


----------



## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

You're very welcome F>A, but I still want to see Machida lose. :dunno:


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Chrisl972 said:


> You're very welcome F>A, but I still want to see Machida lose. :dunno:


Wouldn't you rather see him finish?


----------



## SlaveTrade (Apr 27, 2007)

Chrisl972 said:


> You're very welcome F>A, but I still want to see Machida lose. :dunno:


You're going to be waiting for a while.


----------



## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

I want Thiago to win because, Thiago vs. Rashad/Forrest is much more interesting then Machida vs. Rashad/Forrest. Also, just in case..

Thiago Silva vs. Rampage/Wandi would be a dynomite fight!


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> Wouldn't you rather see him finish?


If it meant a complete change of Lyoto's fighting style, then yes. I would love to see that. 

But I don't think it would, I think he would still be out there trying not trying to finish fights. 

I've said on many occasions, that I think Lyoto is a very skilled fighter, but he lacks the entertaining qualities that I look for. In my eyes, a crushing defeat would get him past trying to stay unbeaten and let him be more free as a "fighter".


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> I picked out the selections for Silva based-on forum credibility. I only pointed out Damone and 6sidedlie because those guys know their stuff, they understand the concept of favourites, unlike you and the guys you cited as credible sources on sherdog (LOL).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I gotcha you just feel that you can ignore the fact that 3/5 picks in the thread favored Drwal.

The betting odds have corrected me, you on the other hand haven't. I didn't see any betting odds prior to the fight, tho with those odds I probably wouldn't have touched it anyway, and made my observations by what people were talking about in the MMA community, which is only supported by the fact that the picks on this very forum were half and half.

I continually provided more proof as to my position and you just sat there shaking your head yelling nuh uhh ignoring fact and attempting personal attacks (you know when you called me a liar despite 3/5 picks in the thread picking Drwal) to attempt to further your cause.

Last I checked it's your behavior that imitates the demeanor of the fine folks at Sherdog, perhaps you'd be more comfortable there.

Hopefully this will be the last post of the derail. WAR THIAGO!


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Bro Thiago wasn't the underdog for his fight with Drwal. Chris found the odds and I was on the forum at that time.

Most people were picking Thiago except for a couple of guys from Europe who really just wanted to support a fellow European.

Thiago wasn't the underdog in any of his fights beside his fight with Houston


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Many people were picking Houston except me, bbjd7 and possibly F>A. Alexander was definitely seen as the favorite.


----------



## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

stitch1z said:


> Does it not occur to anyone that this is what most of Machida's opponents planned to do before they actually got into the cage with him?


Pushing the pace against Machida? How could you NOT win by that strategy? :thumb02:


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

It sure worked for Rich Franklin!


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> Bro Thiago wasn't the underdog for his fight with Drwal. Chris found the odds and I was on the forum at that time.
> 
> Most people were picking Thiago except for a couple of guys from Europe who really just wanted to support a fellow European.
> 
> Thiago wasn't the underdog in any of his fights beside his fight with Houston


I stopped disputing that...

my entire post was really more related to the mannor in which F>A conducted his portion of the debate and reminding him that he never made a valid counterargument (at almost any point). Like when he called me a liar instead of trying to point out that the picks for Silva were by respected members and the ones for Drwal weren't. You know like you would in any intelligent debate. Chris corrected me with something to actually back it up.

You say "around here" like MMA revolves around MMAforums. Only one person on this forum made an educated pick for silva. The other person said his picks were ignorant prior to making them.

The talk was pretty similar to the talk prior to this fight actually. 2 guys with similar records, one guy with what the consensus is to be better wins but in reality picks are going both ways.

But it's not the talk that determines who's an underdog it's the betting odds. which no one in the thread thought to exist prior to Chris posting them. I've been corrected and previously acknowledged this.

EDIT I'm going to stop cluttering up this thread with this, If anyone wants to discuss it further I think the best venue might be PM.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Damone said:


> Many people were picking Houston except me, bbjd7 and possibly F>A. Alexander was definitely seen as the favorite.


Yep I do seem to remember you being with me on the Thiago bandwagon early on.

BTW 69nites While MMA doesn't revolve around this forum. This forum doesn't revolve around that one thread you posted. I picked Thiago a number of times.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> BTW 69nites While MMA doesn't revolve around this forum. *This forum does revolve around MLS*


I hear that.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MLS said:


> I hear that.


What... i thought this forum revolved around you.... :confused02: :confused02: :confused02: :confused02: :confused02: :confused02:


----------



## FedorsFan (Jul 19, 2008)

Can't say I disagree with Thiago


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

69nites said:


> I gotcha you just feel that you can ignore the fact that 3/5 picks in the thread favored Drwal.


You picked a single thread out of a bunch.


Check out these:
http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/22582-seriously-watch-out-tomasz-drwal-tomorrow-night.html

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/22519-ufc-75-fight-breakdown-winner-selection.html




69nites said:


> The betting odds have corrected me, you on the other hand haven't. I didn't see any betting odds prior to the fight, tho with those odds I probably wouldn't have touched it anyway, and made my observations by what people were talking about in the MMA community, which is only supported by the fact that the picks on this very forum were half and half.


Out of all these threads:

*For Silva:*

Arlovski_Fan
bbjd7
Kirkardo
Damone
6sidedlie
e-thug
imrik32 (judging by his negativity towards Tomasz's style)
Fedor>all (me)


*For Drwal:*

anton
nickyj
TheJame
pibmac


That gives a better MMAForum consensus idea than your single thread. 8 to 4 Silva. 



69nites said:


> I continually provided more proof as to my position and you just sat there shaking your head yelling nuh uhh ignoring fact and attempting personal attacks (you know when you called me a liar despite 3/5 picks in the thread picking Drwal) to attempt to further your cause.


You used a single thread to prove your entire point, ignoring the other threads where more people were picking Silva. You accuse me of selective reading, yet you exercised that to a tee with your lackluster argument.



69nites said:


> Last I checked it's your behavior that imitates the demeanor of the fine folks at Sherdog, perhaps you'd be more comfortable there.


My demeanor? I got aggrivated with the fact you were trying to back up your wrongful claim with links that didn't work, or weren't specified. You're not a "liar", so I apologize for calling you that, but your argument was severely flawed. I'd just prefer that if you were going to argue with me, that you'd offer specific links and explain how they're significant rather than encouraging me to read through pages upon pages to see what the point is.



bbjd7 said:


> Bro Thiago wasn't the underdog for his fight with Drwal. Chris found the odds and I was on the forum at that time.
> 
> Most people were picking Thiago except for a couple of guys from Europe who really just wanted to support a fellow European.
> 
> Thiago wasn't the underdog in any of his fights beside his fight with Houston


Exactly, well said bbjd.


Anyway, this is retarded. I'm not wasting anymore time over a claim that has been entirely disproved.


----------



## evilappendix (Jan 4, 2007)

If Silva can put his money where his mouth is, then he can probably beat Machida. The two best ways to stop a counter happy fighter are to either overwhelm him with your strikes and ability to absorb his(which you will eat a lot of using this tech) or to simply back off and force him to come at you. An example of the latter(and more intelligent technique) being when Rampage drops his hands and shrugs at Chuck, goading him into being the aggressor, which counter punchers have less experience with. While I believe the smarter way to fight a guy like Machida would essentially be to dose him with his own medicine, I don't see Silva following this strategy, obviously because he has stated he intends to do just the opposite. Silva can throw down, we've seen that. The question will be how resilient he is, and how much abuse he'll be willing to take to wade in there and duke it out. I still think Machida lacks the fire power to put away a really good brawler with a strong chin, but he can easily take this fight to the ground if things get hairy. In all, I think Machida is the more competent of the two fighters and has more martial prowess. So as much as I'd like to see Thiago win, I say Machida has this one.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

evilappendix said:


> If Silva can put his money where his mouth is, then he can probably beat Machida. The two best ways to stop a counter happy fighter are to either overwhelm him with your strikes and ability to absorb his(which you will eat a lot of using this tech) or to simply back off and force him to come at you. An example of the latter(and more intelligent technique) *being when Rampage drops his hands and shrugs at Chuck, goading him into being the aggressor, which counter punchers have less experience with.*


Tito actually tried taunting Machida and he ended up getting struck in the face which pissed him off a fair bit lol. 

Other than that though, I agree with you. Good post man.

Machida's constantly thinking, the guys who have caught Thiago have gone wild. An example of Machida's methodical nature is evident when he dropped Tito with the body shot. Instead of running straight at Tito and swinging, he ran AROUND Tito, so that he wouldn't risk being placed inside Tito's guard. Small things like that just illustrate how Lyoto's constantly thinking and in control, something Thiago's previous opponents haven't shown.


----------



## Suizida (Feb 29, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> Tito actually tried taunting Machida and he ended up getting struck in the face which pissed him off a fair bit lol.
> 
> Other than that though, I agree with you. Good post man.
> 
> Machida's constantly thinking, the guys who have caught Thiago have gone wild. An example of Machida's methodical nature is evident when he dropped Tito with the body shot. Instead of running straight at Tito and swinging, he ran AROUND Tito, so that he wouldn't risk being placed inside Tito's guard. Small things like that just illustrate how Lyoto's constantly thinking and in control, something Thiago's previous opponents haven't shown.


As much i luv Machida and Fedor>All , im gonna disagree with you. My main (and possibly only) critique of Machida is when he rocks fighters he jumps straight into their guard as oppose to changing positions. When Machida rocked Tito i believe he didn't realise straight away and kept moving out of range, and then jumped in when he realised what was going on he started to tee off. But the critique i have of Machida is when he rocks or judo trips people, he dives right into their guard as oppose to sweeping the legs to a side and going in, if Machida did that he could have finished a lot more fights. (+ Machida should use more elbows on the ground, he has some serious elbows)


----------



## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

It's funny how everyone says they're going to push the pace against Machida "unlike his other opponents" yet they suffer the same fate.


----------



## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> It's funny how everyone says they're going to push the pace against Machida "unlike his other opponents" yet they suffer the same fate.


Kind of reminds me of Cote when he said that he was going to walk straight forward and rely on his chin(or something like that.) He didn't do it, but it would have been funny if he had. 

Same idea here with Machida.


----------



## 2 Clean Knees (Jan 7, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> LOLOLOLOLOL
> 
> hahahhaha
> great post
> ...


Gotta say I don't agree with that Statement, not having a pop or anything just saying.

Machida is a joy to watch and he has beaten good opponents ... not just cans. MMA needs fighters like him to counter balance the wrestlers, the sluggers, the BJJ guys etc. He helps make the sport more interesting cause he's fairly unique in his style. Love him or hate him you gotta give him credit for that and what it brings to MMA in general, The guy can fight, just not to everybodys taste.

His movement is amazing, he thinks on his feet and is so calm during the fight. Completely in control. His striking is interesting to watch, he can vary it up and he's not an arrogant prick. Also he probably hits harder than this board gives him credit for...just ask Tito or Franklin!


----------



## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> I agree with that I don't think Thiago will figure Lyoto out.
> 
> But by using pace you can beat opponents who are better then you skill wise and I think Thiago will do that.


You've obviously never been a practioner of Karate.

We use someone's pace against them to win.

No matter what Thiago does, he will be confused. If Thiago sets a high pace, that is a bad thing for him.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

No I've practiced BJJ and MMA though.

In MMA when you push the pace fights hit the ground.


----------



## Split (Sep 28, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> Machida having KO power is only one section of what I was talking about.
> 
> I have seen posts in this thread alone that state that Machida cannot "punish" or "hurt" anyone. The fact is he Can hurt and punish, if he couldn't, no one would bother protecting their face. Tito was even bleeding at the end of their fight.
> 
> ...


And where is the rest.. anyways thats the last time im talking about Machida until the fight, its pointless, i say something, and nobody argues on anything, they just say their point of view.

its ridiculous to say, because people have their hands up, Machida hurts. OBVIOUSLY he hurts people ,he is still a fighter, else he wouldnt even have a single fight in MMA. Its all relative, its like saying Andy Wang sucks : It doesnt mean I will go around him and start poking his eyes to get into a fight. Comparing to any other credible LHW, he has no striking power at all. 

Besides, except Chris 'im retarded' Leben, few fighters have their hands down to let the other guy hit, no matter who he is. You dont spend 5+ years fighting to learn how to keep your hands down. 

He has hurt many people 'bad'? just read my post again, i dont want to write it again. Besides, those 'many' 'people' are not guys that were supposed to be a serious threat anyways, and i know Rich Franklin is popping right now, and he wasnt hurt 'bad' in any way at any time, except when that weird leg move went on his head. Franklin was just gassed after 3 minutes, and it certainly wasnt the high pace that caused that. 

Having KO power the way he fights is not debatable, its simply possible. Best example is Anderson Silva. Theres no problem in having a slow pace and moving a lot, as a counterstriker ,it works. You just need an explosion to do something with the openings you see, else it just becomes a score points contest. 



Liddellianenko said:


> This Machida hate is getting ridiculous, no matter who Machida beats, it's always "he hasn't proven himself".
> 
> Gripe #1: He hasn't beaten any top 10 fighters - Ortiz was easily top 10 still when he fought Machida. He's not "over the hill" in just his early 30s, he essentially beat everyone's favorite new LHW posterboy Rashad right before he fought Machida. If it wasn't for the fence grabbing point. Even if he hadn't, Tito has shown enough of a ground game for me to think that he might even have subbed Rashad. Heck, Tito still beats half this LHW div easily, he just doesn't match well against great counterstrikers with stellar TDD like Chuck and Machida. Also, Sokky was top 10 too.. his wins weren't flukes, and IMO his losses Machida and Banha are both the upcoming #1 and #2 in this LHW division. Banha would tear apart Thiago too, he's won his fights far more calmly and convincingly than Thiago's struggles against tier 2 opponents. Also, Franklin is a top 10 LHW, regardless of him "not proving" himself at LHW. He has only one loss at LHW and that is to Machida. His only other losses in his entire career are to the #1 p4p fighter in the UFC. Rich's amazing legacy and ability shown at MW doesn't magically disappear just because he cuts 20 lbs less, it's still the same guy.
> 
> ...



#1 : Sokoudjou top 10? hum he was as much top 10 as Cheick Kongo was suddenly after beating CC, and look where both are now. Guys who pop out of nowhere ALWAYS, without exception, end up overrated in rankings, at least it was like that. Then after their loss, they drop, and then they prove themselves to become solid contention. Just like Gonzaga. As for Tito, not over the hill, he wasnt at the top of the top either, even after his draw to Rashad Evans. His inactivity certainly could not keep him top 10 for that long, i failed to find any credible rankings at that time however.

But in any case, if you are comparing to Thiago, no doubt, not a single one, Machida has fought way better. 

To compare, look at what some fighters had to go tru to get a tile shot..Forrest Griffin had to go tru Hector ramirez(decent but not that great fighter), then Shogun, at the time rumored as the 'real' #1 LHW in the world.

Rampage, although in the UFC faced nobody interesting and 1 fight only, got his shot against Liddell for his career in Pride. No need to say who he faced, he faced almost everybody, and add Lindland as well. Also its to notice that i think Dana wanted Chuck to win, so he threw rampage right in the mix.. but thats another story.

Rashad was undefeatable, granted, not against all top fighters, then draws, then KOs Liddell.

Machida,providing he wins, wont have a record anywhere near the list of fighters of the 3 contenders above. Add the fact that he doesnt draw attention that much(although its not always his fault.. not given the proper marketing, although its pretty hard as well), i dont think he should get a title shot, and if he does, its 'by default' more than anything else, lack of successful winning streaks by the others not caused by him.

#2 I could not care less how their face looks, he has no power. Putting some pictures up doesnt prove anything, there is countless pictures of fighters after a fight, just compare them, you will see. And since when are cuts and bruises proving anything more than knowing Machida actually connected? We can see the fight, no need to see the guy's face. You dont see a dislocated jaw on a picture either, but you see it in the action.

#3 Why look at pics when you watch the fights? And man, if i really wanted to, i could snapshot some stupid looking machida pictures when he has his hands way up not ready to strike.. reminds me of Matt Hughes when he fought GSP sometimes. And LnP can be called dominated as well then, since the opponent can do sh*t and you score.(Although i still prefer Machida's way  )




Im done now, cant wait for the Machida to actually fight and end this.I pick him to win however, but thats based on nothing, i know so little about silva and he doesnt really appeal to me as a great fighter. 

Either way, Machida fans will have an escape route, no matter what happens, with his style. He gets KTFO, its a lucky shot..

My hope is a decision for Thiago, not a KO, just a decision, it can be boring or not, i wont even be watching it live, ill probably go get a beer(or more, if needed) during that fight, and wait for GSP vs BJ.

My prediction is decision for Machida, maybe a tko if Thiago runs after Machida like he said he would, but he might gas easy, thats what usually happens at least.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> No I've practiced BJJ and MMA though.
> 
> In MMA when you push the pace fights hit the ground.



Yes, but in MMA, the fight has to hit the ground. It always starts up standing and if Thiago pushed the pace and kept a fast one, he should be countered to shit and picked apart from the range.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Suizida said:


> As much i luv Machida and Fedor>All , im gonna disagree with you. My main (and possibly only) critique of Machida is when he rocks fighters he jumps straight into their guard as oppose to changing positions. When Machida rocked Tito i believe he didn't realise straight away and kept moving out of range, and then jumped in when he realised what was going on he started to tee off. But the critique i have of Machida is when he rocks or judo trips people, he dives right into their guard as oppose to sweeping the legs to a side and going in, if Machida did that he could have finished a lot more fights. (+ Machida should use more elbows on the ground, he has some serious elbows)


That could be the case. Also, he used elbows on Tito in the first round. 



Split said:


> #1 : Sokoudjou top 10? hum he was as much top 10 as Cheick Kongo was suddenly after beating CC, and look where both are now. Guys who pop out of nowhere ALWAYS, without exception, end up overrated in rankings, at least it was like that. Then after their loss, they drop, and then they prove themselves to become solid contention. Just like Gonzaga.


I hate to de-rail the topic's originally intended direction again, but no matter how much you want to deny Sokoudjou's top 10 status prior to facing Machida, you're not changing the fact he was. 

He beat two guys in the top 10 in succession. He may have been exposed by Lyoto, but to look back with hindsight and say he wasn't top 10 is silly. Jardine was catapulted into the top 10 with a win over Chuck, so why shouldn't the same happen for Sokoudjou? Let's not downplay a solid win for Lyoto, simply because Sokoudjou didn't maintain his ranked status.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

milkkid291 said:


> Yes, but in MMA, the fight has to hit the ground. It always starts up standing and if Thiago pushed the pace and kept a fast one, he should be countered to shit and picked apart from the range.


Of course he will but luckly for him Machida isn't a knockout striker and by pushing the pace Thiago can get the fight down.

You can't back up forever when someone press foward either you knock your opponent down or your going to hit the ground.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Split said:


> #1 : Sokoudjou top 10? hum he was as much top 10 as Cheick Kongo was suddenly after beating CC, and look where both are now. Guys who pop out of nowhere ALWAYS, without exception, end up overrated in rankings, at least it was like that. Then after their loss, they drop, and then they prove themselves to become solid contention. Just like Gonzaga. As for Tito, not over the hill, he wasnt at the top of the top either, even after his draw to Rashad Evans. His inactivity certainly could not keep him top 10 for that long, i failed to find any credible rankings at that time however.


Ok, maybe the top 10 rankings are debatable, but they're still plausible, going back to the time. Sure, Sokky has had 2 losses and 1 Win since then and could be written off as overrated, but then so could CroCop, Liddell, Wanderlei, Jardine and just about half this LHW div. There's no doubting though that, without knowing the future, the argument for Sokky being rated top 10 after rolling over Lil Nog and Arona was very good. And like you said, they certainly are 10X better than the likes of Thiago's opponents like Houston Alexander, James Irvin (who he didn't actually beat anyway), Drwal and Mendes. None of these guys had beaten any top LHWs or gone up against any top competition, two were actually debuting in the UFC and didn't have any other big org like PRIDE experience either.



Split said:


> To compare, look at what some fighters had to go tru to get a tile shot..Forrest Griffin had to go tru Hector ramirez(decent but not that great fighter), then Shogun, at the time rumored as the 'real' #1 LHW in the world.
> 
> Rampage, although in the UFC faced nobody interesting and 1 fight only, got his shot against Liddell for his career in Pride. No need to say who he faced, he faced almost everybody, and add Lindland as well. Also its to notice that i think Dana wanted Chuck to win, so he threw rampage right in the mix.. but thats another story.
> 
> ...


Lol, look at your own list again. Besides one big name, none of the other contenders faced anything but cans, not even like tier 2 competition. Griffin had the easiest road of them all... Hector freakin Ramirez, are you kidding me? That guy is the same level as Sam Hoger and the earlier guys that Machida faced. He's 0-2 in the UFC and lost soundly to Rashad before that. And before that, Forrest had guys with < 50% win records like Elvis Sinosic or losses to Ortiz and Jardine. Shogun was his first and only test (that he passed) before the title, and that was the worst Shogun in the history of Shoguns. I'm not grudging him his title, he did out-strategize and beat a Rampage at the top of his game. But to compare his road to the title as better than Machida's is laughable. 

Rashad has a slightly better case, with a W over Bisping and then Liddell. But he barely scraped through against Bisping with a split decision, got a lucky draw against Ortiz who he should've lost to, and then got his one big win. Before that, he had barely scraped by split decisions against Bonnar, Imes and Hoger, two of which (Bonnar and Hoger) Machida had absolute dominations over. How is his road to the title better than Machida's again? 

Really, the only difference they have is that one "big" win, both of which are arguably against guys either out-of-form (Shogun) or currently waning in their career (Liddell). Much the same as Machida's win against Ortiz. And Machida has challenged half those big names and THEY chickened out, seeing his impenetrable style. This isn't speculation, it's been confirmed through interviews. Bottom line, Machida is the most deserving oontender in the LHW div right now, and people can hate him for being "boring", but their hissy fits have nothing to do with his talent, credentials or fairness. 



Split said:


> #2 I could not care less how their face looks, he has no power. Putting some pictures up doesnt prove anything, there is countless pictures of fighters after a fight, just compare them, you will see. And since when are cuts and bruises proving anything more than knowing Machida actually connected? We can see the fight, no need to see the guy's face. You dont see a dislocated jaw on a picture either, but you see it in the action.
> 
> #3 Why look at pics when you watch the fights? And man, if i really wanted to, i could snapshot some stupid looking machida pictures when he has his hands way up not ready to strike.. reminds me of Matt Hughes when he fought GSP sometimes. And LnP can be called dominated as well then, since the opponent can do sh*t and you score.(Although i still prefer Machida's way  )


You're grasping at straws man.. Machida damages his opponents and you have proof right there. Who's jaw has Forrest dislocated with his pillow punches may I ask? Also, LnP is not and will never be considered domination because the guys don't buckle over in excruciating pain at the end with a smashed liver, or 12 smashing knees to the face, lying on the floor senseless in a KO, or bleeding like a stuck pig. 

As far as you watching the fights instead of looking at the pictures, please go ahead and do that. Because your statements seriously come across as having been staring at the wall during those fights. Machida started off slow and methodical against all his opponents, but he eventually *rocked* most of them. All of them were lying on the ground desperately trying to recover at some point. Heath after his 12 knees, Tito after his fcked liver, Hoger a couple of times, Nakamura after the punch/sweeps, and Sokky after the punch/sweep. If only Machida had better GnP, he'd have finished them all and shut everyone's mouths. Unfortunately, that is the one aspect of MMA in which he's weak, and that provides fuel for all the irrational hate.

[/QUOTE]



Split said:


> Im done now, cant wait for the Machida to actually fight and end this.I pick him to win however, but thats based on nothing, i know so little about silva and he doesnt really appeal to me as a great fighter.
> 
> Either way, Machida fans will have an escape route, no matter what happens, with his style. He gets KTFO, its a lucky shot..
> 
> ...


Great, I'm done too, this defending an obviously skilled fighter against style bias gets old. In spite of all your arguments, you still make a prediction for a Machida UD/TKO... shows something doesn't it? You know this guy's talent, just don't like to admit it.


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## Harms (Dec 10, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> Ok, maybe the top 10 rankings are debatable, but they're still plausible, going back to the time. Sure, Sokky has had 2 losses and 1 Win since then and could be written off as overrated, but then so could CroCop, Liddell, Wanderlei, Jardine and just about half this LHW div. There's no doubting though that, without knowing the future, the argument for Sokky being rated top 10 after rolling over Lil Nog and Arona was very good. And like you said, they certainly are 10X better than the likes of Thiago's opponents like Houston Alexander, James Irvin (who he didn't actually beat anyway), Drwal and Mendes. None of these guys had beaten any top LHWs or gone up against any top competition, two were actually debuting in the UFC and didn't have any other big org like PRIDE experience either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






I'm not really sure you can compare Chuck to Tito like you did. Chuck did come off of a solid win over Wandy and Tito looked rather average against Rashad. Sure you can say it was the worst Shogun of any Shogun seen, but the fact of the matter is, it was still Shogun. Sok, on the other hand, always seemed to have a question mark on how good he really was. He beat Lil Nog and Arona impressively in Pride, but even going into the Machida fight, most people still questioned how good he really is with such a small track record. Seems like after the Cane fight, Sok seems pretty average now. So one of the only things (which is a big win as you put it) is a really big only thing. Essentially, Machida really hasn't beaten anyone worth noting while Rashad and Forrest have. That and the simple fact that people want to see Rashad and Forrest and alot of people don't want to see Machida. This is also a big thing to Dana apparently, since he gave the title shot to Brock after going 1-1 while more deserving fighters were out there.


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## koito (Dec 5, 2008)

*smart fighter*

machida is a smart fighter i think tiago machida would be an interesting fightkeeping in mind that machida is a smart fighter not just an over confident fool which is what tiago is an over confident dumm as who will get his ass wooped soon he has not faced strong competion yet hughes is out of his prime, Koscheck not even on the top ten contenders,DeSouza no standup, st pierre would make him his bitch and even that fool peen would make him eat shit....


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

> As much i luv Machida and Fedor>All , im gonna disagree with you. My main (and possibly only) critique of Machida is when he rocks fighters he jumps straight into their guard as oppose to changing positions. When Machida rocked Tito i believe he didn't realise straight away and kept moving out of range, and then jumped in when he realised what was going on he started to tee off. But the critique i have of Machida is when he rocks or judo trips people, he dives right into their guard as oppose to sweeping the legs to a side and going in, if Machida did that he could have finished a lot more fights. (+ Machida should use more elbows on the ground, he has some serious elbows)


He always throws a big punch that usually connects b4 falling into guard though. How is that a bad thing? He punches a guy, sweeps him down, lands a big punch, and then is on top? I approve personally


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## Hazflo (Oct 17, 2007)

pushing the pace with machida is about all he can do everthing ever1 else has done failed so y not, who knows MABEY he can crack machida under the constant assult and if he dosen't a least we can see machida in a exciting fight for once mabey machida will even finish this fight:confused02:


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## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

If you throw more punches than you do moving around with good footwork then your standup wouldn't be good in the first place.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

This is my most anticipated fight since god knows when, i just cant wait to see what happens. Hopefully its Machida knocked clean out on the mat, not that i dont like him its just Thiago is one of my favorite fighters.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> “The opponents who have faced him attacked and stopped; I’ll have a different gameplan. I want to see how he deals with someone who’s in very good shape and attacks him for five minutes over three rounds. I’m not underestimating him. He’s a great fighter, but I’d bet on me. I’m not here to joke around. I have my goals, and I’m ready to beat Lyoto…. It will be a knockout in the first round … there aren’t any of his fights I really like. Lyoto’s a fighter who runs more than he fights. He’s not a fighter who will knock me out easily. He scores points, and I’ll make it hard for him to score. I already faced the toughest fighters. I believe it will be more of a psychological fight than a physical fight for me.”


Thiago is a skilled talanted fighter, but I don't think he will beat Lyoto at this point of his career. Although, I like Silva more than Machida: he went to the distance just once in his career, not to mention that he's a knockout artist, Machida is more of a "unanimous decision" artist + he's a bit boring and has no charisma whatsoever... Nevertheless, I'm rooting for Lyoto here.


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## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

Lyoto Machida is all about winning fights. His style is very difficult to figure out, and although he seems to be running away his opponents are eating kicks, punches, and knees. I'm not an MMA artist, but I would think landing strikes and not taking them is the way to go. Machida eta ochi horosho!


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

TeamNogpwns said:


> Lyoto Machida is all about winning fights. His style is very difficult to figure out, and although he seems to be running away his opponents are eating kicks, punches, and knees. I'm not an MMA artist, but I would think landing strikes and not taking them is the way to go. Machida eta ochi horosho!


Yeah, you're right, Machida - это очень хорошо!


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