# ***OFFICIAL*** - Mauricio Rua vs. Forrest Griffin DISCUSSION THREAD (pre/post)



## T.B. (Jul 4, 2006)

Conduct all discussion on Mauricio Rua vs. Forrest Griffin in HERE, ALL other threads *WILL BE DELETED*.

- *T.B.*


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## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

On one hand I love Forrest. On the other hand I dont want to hear about how all the hype was worthless if Shogun loses. I still see Forrest getting taken down and Shogun controlling the fight on the ground. Shogun by decision.


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## Nate6000 (Mar 31, 2007)

I really hope that forest wins buti dont know, That would be awsome if they had a brawl!


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## l3ft3lbow (Sep 18, 2007)

I'm not going to count Forrest out. You have to respect the guy for stepping up and requesting the fight in the first place. I think it's going to be a helluva fight.


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## royalking87 (Apr 22, 2007)

i think shogun is just to good for griffin i see shogun by tko round 2


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## gillpad (Sep 25, 2006)

I honestly don't know much about Shogun, but if he has any ground skills at all, this fight shouldn't hold much excitment. I am amazed that Forest continues to get good fights -- since he's low on skill; he seems to thrive on goofiness. I guess it's his ability to absorb impact; he seems to be fueled by it, as long as it doesn't kill him! He's really not much to watch, other than his uncanny ability to take punishment and and brawl...


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## hommage1985 (Apr 22, 2007)

Shogun by 2nd round KO


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

I bet points on Forrest, and was convinced he was going to pull an upset, and then I saw Shogun at the weigh in's. I don't know what got into me, but it's like just seeing Shogun live caused all those memories of him pwning fools to come flooding back. Now I regret betting on Forrest. =( I'm hoping Forrest still wins, but now I'm worried. Forrest may look super cut, but to me he doesn't look like he's got the muscles he needs.


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## TerribleOne (Jul 12, 2007)

Shogun looked great at weigh-ins. Looked to be in great shape, and returning to his old hairstyle really got my pumped 

He also looked very gracious and ready to fight.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

TerribleOne said:


> Shogun looked great at weigh-ins. Looked to be in great shape, and returning to his old hairstyle really got my pumped
> 
> He also looked very gracious and ready to fight.


I agree. I was a little confused because in a lot of the prefight media he looked to be a porkster, but he obviously shaped back up in time for the fight. =)


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

I got it either Shogun 3rd rd. T/KO or DEC. Was anybody esle surprised that he was introduced first? I was at first but then realized they are probably letting Forrest get some spotlight.


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## livewire42 (Sep 19, 2007)

well, i don't think forrest has a good shot at winning this. obviously, sports aren't played on paper so nothing is a lock. i don't think either guy as KO power in their hands so i don't see a flash KO. i hope forrest doesn't try to clinch with shogun ala randy cuz i like the guy (even though i like shogun more). i see this as a fight where forrest does everything he can to stay out of the thai clinch and gets taken down and eventually subbed in the 2nd round.


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## chaoyungphat (Apr 8, 2007)

Shogun wins this fight TKO in 2nd round.


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## hommage1985 (Apr 22, 2007)

I just seen Randys picks now im not putting money on Shogun to win.


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## esv (Oct 4, 2006)

shogun by tko in the 2nd round


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## snoozer (Sep 9, 2007)

Forrest has requested his death bed! This fight won't even be close - IMO Shogun will destroy him.


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## T.B. (Jul 4, 2006)

Even though I'm not the biggest Shogun mark on this site, his debut in the UFC is going to be something to see. Should be an awesome war between him and The Monkey Boy.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Shogun by Fatality in the first.

I really need to declare my absolute fanboyism of Shogun before he takes over the LHW division and becomes really popular.

So yeah, I liked shogun before you! Get your own devilishly handsome brazilian headstomper TUF noobs!
:thumb02:


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## Arlovski_Fan (Apr 25, 2007)

I really like both fighters, so I'm happy with whomever wins. I am kinda leaning more towards Shogun just because he stands a better chance against Rampage, and I really can't wait for that dethronement. :thumb02: 

I see this being FOTN, lasting at least 2 rounds, probably going to a UD:dunno:


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Calibretto9 said:


> I bet points on Forrest, and was convinced he was going to pull an upset, and then I saw Shogun at the weigh in's. I don't know what got into me, but it's like just seeing Shogun live caused all those memories of him pwning fools to come flooding back. Now I regret betting on Forrest. =( I'm hoping Forrest still wins, but now I'm worried. Forrest may look super cut, but to me he doesn't look like he's got the muscles he needs.


IMO forest would need a gun to win this lol.


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

TREY B. said:


> Even though I'm not the biggest Shogun mark on this site, his debut in the UFC is going to be something to see. Should be an awesome war between him and The Monkey Boy.


Yeah I agree some people are being a little too quick to count out Forrest but he's still going to lose sometime in the 3rd rd or by DEC, and I want too see how the fans treat him going into the octagon as well.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

The Legend said:


> Yeah I agree some people are being a little too quick to count out Forrest but he's still going to lose sometime in the 3rd rd or by DEC, and I want too see how the fans treat him going into the octagon as well.


I honestly don't know why anyone thinks he can last that long.


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## Kameleon (Apr 20, 2006)

*I wonder if Silva will be in Shoguns corner tonight? Anyways, WAR Rua!*


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## evilmatt535 (Sep 20, 2007)

I see Shogun dominating Griffin. Thats not taking anything away from Griffin cause i also see him dominating the lhw division but thats just a fans bias. who knows i thought Ninja was gonna successfully defend his title and i was wrong thats why i love mma over boxing you just never know. 1st round tko shogun


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## jamlena (Oct 15, 2006)

Calibretto9 said:


> I bet points on Forrest, and was convinced he was going to pull an upset, and then I saw Shogun at the weigh in's. I don't know what got into me, but it's like just seeing Shogun live caused all those memories of him pwning fools to come flooding back. Now I regret betting on Forrest. =( I'm hoping Forrest still wins, but now I'm worried. Forrest may look super cut, but to me he doesn't look like he's got the muscles he needs.


I have points on Forrest as well and I gotta be honest, there is a little doubt in the back of my mind...


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## toddy95 (Mar 4, 2007)

It is gonna be a very lop sided fight.I love forest hes a great guy but shogun is unbelievable.I htink shogun is gonna be the next ufc champion with out a doubt.Shogun knocks out griffin 1st round.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Forrest CAN win this, but I see this Shogun taking the decision. Alot of fights going the distance tonight in my eyes.


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## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

Forrest is a tough guy will heart and loves a close fight but I think Shogun will come out and make an impressive UFC debut and will show some excellent Muay Thai in the ring. Forrest has proved he is a good stand up fighter and is training will a world class Boxing instructor but as I said before I think Shogun’s Muay Thai will be to much for him. I think Shogun will get a good clinch and…

Mauricio “Shogun” Rua via KO, Rd 1


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## tvn4eva (Oct 15, 2006)

we'll see how much mauricio adapts now that he cant do soccer kicks n stomps.


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## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

It is time. The fight is upon us bitches. WAR SHOGUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## EvilPrime (Jun 20, 2007)

Well one of my favorite fighters has just been defeated (Diego Sanchez), now I hope Forrest doesn't lose as well. He has one heck of a challange in front him. GO FORREST!!!!!!!


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## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

War Shogun!!!!!


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

Fight is about to start 

I just wanted to say I think Forrest will win this


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## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

Shogun will KO Forrest(Knees from clinch)IMO or atleast that will be the "ending" in the fight.


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## esv (Oct 4, 2006)

go shogun!


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## Uchi (Oct 15, 2006)

honestly i have a bad feeling about this. I fear Shogun may lose.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

wow... personally i give rd 1 to Forest


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## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

Uchi said:


> honestly i have a bad feeling about this. I fear Shogun may lose.


Yeah, I am not watching it but i knew Forrest had improved alot since his last fight but i didn't think as good as i think he has.


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## ezcw (May 9, 2007)

Shogun is giving up the back way too much


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## Uchi (Oct 15, 2006)

wtf shogun is gassing?


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

Dude this is looking like Lawler v Ninja!!!!!!


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## Uchi (Oct 15, 2006)

WTF SHOGUN? DID U train?


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## ezcw (May 9, 2007)

doesnt even have his hands up anymore. forrest is putting a whoopin on now.


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## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

I am seriously getting pissed over the PRIDE guys not treating the UFC as seriously as they should.

The only one who did was Rampage and hes the LHW champ.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Shogun's hands weren't the best, but at least he let them go. He looks like crap in this fight. I'm waiting for Rogan to tell him to cut to 185


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## Uchi (Oct 15, 2006)

Man shogun is pissing me off, shit all the pride fighters are. Wanderlei won't disapoint me tho 

yea forrest wins..


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Judoka said:


> I am seriously getting pissed over the PRIDE guys not treating the UFC as seriously as they should.
> 
> The only one who did was Rampage and hes the LHW champ.


Same here. He's gassed on Ninja levels.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

Yeeeesssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Judoka said:


> I am seriously getting pissed over the PRIDE guys not treating the UFC as seriously as they should.
> 
> The only one who did was Rampage and hes the LHW champ.


Same here. He's gassed on Ninja levels. 

Forum is about to crash...


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Uchi said:


> WTF SHOGUN? DID U train?


Shogun's nuts will be pretty lonely for awhile now.


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## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

Wow, just wow. Forrest by RNC

The year of the upset continues and Pride fighters aren't living up to the hype. This intrigues and disappoints me at the same time.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

HA Ha Ha Shogan meet our Reality Show Star


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## EvilPrime (Jun 20, 2007)

Forrest Is The Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I can't stop laughing. Forrest rules, and I have no clue why people thought that Shogun was going to steamroll through him.

This is awesome and hilarious.


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## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

I'm speechless. WTF! I'm still on his nuts though


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Shogun = Ninja


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## Danomac (Oct 15, 2006)

Dude. Forrest is the man. That was beautiful. Top 10 no ******* doubt. That was genius.


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## ezcw (May 9, 2007)

"It wasn't even that good of a choke, but fatigue is a son of a bitch"


lol


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

how many suicides are we gonna have tonight?!?!?


Shogun Overrated????


hehe j/k


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## Freeway.86 (Aug 26, 2007)

I thought Forrest would win, but I never thought he would make Rua tap. This is awesome.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Forest pulled it off. gotta love his attitude all the time to, i'd like to see him get that title shot to see what he can do with it. They both gassed hard in the second round, Shogun walking around hands down, i mean he didn't look in shape at all, but still had heavy hands, and that was a heck of a elbow that cut forest. All around good fight, it made up for the sanchez fitch let down.


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## Slug (Apr 8, 2007)

I KNEW IT! I was rooting for Forrest. Something deep inside me told me that he would get the upset. Forrest looked real determined when I saw him on all access and it looked like he was really improving. Haven't seen the fight, but I can't wait for it!!!

I read the play by play and the fight sounds so freaking exciting. Man, I am anticipating this more than the Chuck/Jardine fight.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

Damn! I had a feeling Forrest would win but not like that!raise01: 

Does this mean Rampage is the No.1 Lightheavyweight?:confused02:


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## tvn4eva (Oct 15, 2006)

wow.i guess stomps and soccer kicks do make a difference.cheers to griffin though.


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## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

JuggNuttz said:


> how many suicides are we gonna have tonight?!?!?
> 
> 
> Shogun Overrated????
> ...


1, but ill take down as many i can before i do it.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Oh phuck.. did it really happen?

This is terrible, time to let go of his nuts a little.

Not much.. but a little.


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## DanMMAFan (Apr 13, 2006)

Awesome fight! Way to go Forest!!!


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Forrest's ground game won't be so underrated anymore.


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## livewire42 (Sep 19, 2007)

wow. i really didn't see this one. i thought that the only way forrest would win is by decision... shows how much i know, lol. the year of the upset indeed. shogun gassed real quick, but forrest took it to him the whole fight.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

I'm curious to see the difference in pay between the two. TUF 1 guys ain't gettin dat cheddaaaa


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## nightmare (Feb 8, 2007)

shogun looked pretty bad, props to forrest he had a great fight, shogun will come back strong. even though he looked really gassed shogun kept moving forward, awesome fight to watch.


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## Danomac (Oct 15, 2006)

Shogun lost but still he is now #2 in the world.

But seriously guys, what's up with the PRIDE guys honking it? Cro Cop seems to be choking or something. And then Shogun seems like he trained for like 10 minutes a day.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Damone said:


> Forrest's ground game won't be so underrated anymore.


And not overrate Shogun's standup? He was shooting desperately on the end of it.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

Haha, I laugh at all those nuthuggers who claimed that Forrest was going to get destroyed by Shogun. I knew this fight was going to be close and I'm not surprised that Forrest won (although I'm surprised that he finished Shogun).


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## Danomac (Oct 15, 2006)

Well I suppose he had no choice. He knew he wasn't doing any good standing. Why not try and GnP the guy. Hell, nothing was working for Shogun. It was rather pathetic to be honest.


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## green teabagger (Mar 4, 2007)

i honestly thought Shogun was hurt, if not that was a sad showing in the later rounds.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Terry77 said:


> And not overrate Shogun's standup? He was shooting desperately on the end of it.


Well yeah, but I've been saying that Shogun's stand-up isn't that great. I just hope that people realize this now.


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## rogi (Aug 26, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> I honestly don't know why anyone thinks he can last that long.



Really? do u see anything now?


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## RWGreen (May 3, 2007)

Says Forrest regarding his state of mind after the Jardine loss: "I got depressed and ate a lot of cookies." I seriously think that comment made him my favorite fighter.


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## canadiangiant (Sep 23, 2007)

*Doggie style*

What was shogun doing? looked like he was trying to hump forrests leg...:thumbsdown:


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## TheGreg (Apr 29, 2007)

hahahaha all the pre fight posts = total 0WNAGE. It's hilarious to read.


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## Asian Sensation (Oct 9, 2006)

wow forrest gassing shogun then finishing him with a RNC WHO THE **** SAW THAT COMIN:eek03:


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## cage of death (Mar 4, 2007)

wow. just wow.

Griffin totally controlled Shogun in every aspect, he also dictated the pace of the fight which is what ended up gassing shogun. Total domination. Griffin should be in line for a title shot.

Despite getting decimated, Shogun is still one of the best in the world at 205. Just not tonight i guess


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

THIS is the reason I make my bets at least a week before the fight. Leading up to this fight I was convinced that Forrest would take it. Then, the night of the weigh in's, I got scared because I saw Shogun in all his scariness. =P Luckily for me, I had already made my bets when I was thinking logically and man did Forrest do good! I'm very glad I stuck to my guns and bet on him, even if I do admit I doubted him (You can see me doubting early in this thread). I was so nervous but he looked absolutely great. 

In other news, I highly regret betting on Diego (Even though I thought Fitch would win) and Liddell. Whoops. =(


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## RWGreen (May 3, 2007)

It's interesting reading the thread for this fight on Sherdog. Many people seem to think that the majority of Pride fighters were on 'roids and are now shadows of their former selves.


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## cage of death (Mar 4, 2007)

RWGreen said:


> It's interesting reading the thread for this fight on Sherdog. Many people seem to think that the majority of Pride fighters were on 'roids and are now shadows of their former selves.


im not going to say thats bull or not, but its a distinct possibility. As soon as Shogun took his shirt off, i said to myself "damn, he looks a little out of shape".


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## Tommy08 (Feb 2, 2007)

I don't think was an upset. We never had a chance to compare the 2 in the same organizations, so everything was just based on assumption. And usually upsets are very clear-like when a top guy just goes down round 1 without doing anything.

The question now is- is Forrest really top tier, or still mid-tier? I mean seriously, what if the #1 ranked LHW is only mid tier in the UFC? The RNC makes me even consider that, because Griffin is not exactly known for his submission skills. But I will say his ground defense is now simply amazing. 

Both fighters were gassed, either because they went B**ls to the wall round one, or the tension of a really high profile match got too both of them. Tension does cause fatigue, ironically being relaxed in a fight helps prevent fatigue. For example: You have to run at school/practice/whatever and it feels crappy you are tired. You got out to a club dance with a hot chick for quite a while and you burn more calories then on that run, but you just don't get gassed. Part of the mental game.


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## RWGreen (May 3, 2007)

cage of death said:


> im not going to say thats bull or not, but its a distinct possibility. As soon as Shogun took his shirt off, i said to myself "damn, he looks a little out of shape".


I wouldn't have called him "out of shape," but he certainly did not look muscular or cut. I guess you could say he looked "soft." In fact, he looked like he could probably fight at 185.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

RWGreen said:


> It's interesting reading the thread for this fight on Sherdog. Many people seem to think that the majority of Pride fighters were on 'roids and are now shadows of their former selves.


That's what I've been thinking, and while I recognize there's no proof available, I still have that hunch. There are guys getting caught left and right for it in the UFC, and it's not even legal there. How much worse could it be in an organization who doesn't care whether you do or not? 

I don't think all of them did, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to hear that several major fighters were using them. Heck, where did guys like Barnett and Randleman go after the UFC? Both of those guys are juicers and both went to Pride. I'm not saying that that proves anything, but it's all been very coincendental. To see Shogun's cardio taper off that drastically is very suspicious to me.


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## raul21 (Dec 31, 2006)

an unexpected outcome, well that's mma= everything can happern


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

WTF HAPPENED!!!!

Seriously, they were bangin and fighting real good in the second, I went to go get the door, as soon as I come back Forrest looks like Carrie and Shoguns gassed beyond recognition!

I thought Shogun had a legendary gas tank, WTF HAPPENED!!!


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## Wayneraltman (Aug 27, 2007)

*Let me be the ONE to tell you what happened*



plazzman said:


> WTF HAPPENED!!!!
> 
> Seriously, they were bangin and fighting real good in the second, I went to go get the door, as soon as I come back Forrest looks like Carrie and Shoguns gassed beyond recognition!
> 
> I thought Shogun had a legendary gas tank, WTF HAPPENED!!!



PRIDE fighters are worthless!! Forrest Griffen just whooped the shit out of shogun. He TAPPED OUT fuckers!!!

Rua is a PUNK!!! You PRIDE nut huggers need to STFU we saw the REAL DEAL tonight. *OMG that was a wake the **** UP call *

HELLO FEDOR!!! Were you watching? :thumb02: 

Come get some UFC dude!!!!:thumb02:


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## Wayneraltman (Aug 27, 2007)

*Sorry I expected that dude*



raul21 said:


> an unexpected outcome, well that's mma= everything can happern


I am so sorry but I expected that to happen, I predicted it to happen. 

:thumb02:


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

Wayneraltman said:


> PRIDE fighters are worthless!! Forrest Griffen just whooped the shit out of shogun. He TAPPED OUT fuckers!!!
> 
> Rua is a PUNK!!! You PRIDE nut huggers need to STFU we saw the REAL DEAL tonight. *OMG that was a wake the **** UP call *
> 
> ...


Wow, how did I ever expect you to come back with a mature response, silly me...


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## x X CLoud X x (Oct 15, 2006)

Thank God we still have 2 Pride/UFC Champs- Rampage and Anderson Silva


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## Wayneraltman (Aug 27, 2007)

*Whaaaa!!!!*

:thumb02:


plazzman said:


> Wow, how did I ever expect you to come back with a mature response, silly me...


I am just so sick of the PRIDE nutthuggers I got out of hand... 

Sorry but I do not see any apologies so f it. All I am asking is HUA?

LOLOLLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLO :thumb02:


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

dude, theres like 200 people on right now, threads are flooding and in some unknown thread, theres actual and interesting arguments happening. We dont need you coming in again and acting like a 5 year old.


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## Wayneraltman (Aug 27, 2007)

plazzman said:


> dude, theres like 200 people on right now, threads are flooding and in some unknown thread, theres actual and interesting arguments happening. We dont need you coming in again and acting like a 5 year old.


You are an example of someone who does not know jack about MMA.. Please do not repond to me at all. You are so unqualified it is not funny. 

Just stop ok?:thumb02:


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

Damone said:


> Well yeah, but I've been saying that Shogun's stand-up isn't that great. I just hope that people realize this now.


Oh me too! I gotta get in on this too man...

Forrest beating Shogun seriously made me so happy that my face is sore right now from smiling...I was so excited to come on here and tell everyone I TOLD YOU SO!...then the Chuck fight came on...:confused05: 


Forrest vs Shogun = BEST FIGHT OF ALL TIMES...I will be watching this fight every day for the next 60 years and smiling every time.


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

Wayneraltman said:


> You are an example of someone who does not know jack about MMA.. Please do not repond to me at all. You are so unqualified it is not funny.
> 
> Just stop ok?:thumb02:


Does anyone want to agree with that?


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## cage of death (Mar 4, 2007)

Calibretto9 said:


> That's what I've been thinking, and while I recognize there's no proof available, I still have that hunch. There are guys getting caught left and right for it in the UFC, and it's not even legal there. How much worse could it be in an organization who doesn't care whether you do or not?
> 
> I don't think all of them did, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to hear that several major fighters were using them. Heck, where did guys like Barnett and Randleman go after the UFC? Both of those guys are juicers and both went to Pride. I'm not saying that that proves anything, but it's all been very coincendental. To see Shogun's cardio taper off that drastically is very suspicious to me.


It definatly wasnt all of them (if any, cos like you said there is no proof). Guys like Fedor who were not as cut as some people may have been all natural. Seeing how much less cut and defined Shogun was, was pretty staggering to me.


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## Wayneraltman (Aug 27, 2007)

*Sound of silence*



plazzman said:


> Does anyone want to agree with that?


The sound of your support is deafening. Do not respond to another of my posts just quit man. 

:thumb02:


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

Yes because your posts really bring out the intelligence that you posses.

Wow I really see alot of people actualy respecting and agreeing with your posts. Do you know how many people just scroll past your posts?

Youve said like 1 intelligent thing since youve been here


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## WestCoastPoutin (Feb 27, 2007)

I agree. 100%. Yes. Positive feedback.

FORREST WINS!!


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## 2-D (Sep 9, 2007)

plazzman said:


> I thought Shogun had a legendary gas tank, WTF HAPPENED!!!


the price of gas is more expensive in the USA compared to Brazil.


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## TerribleOne (Jul 12, 2007)

1. Props to Forrest, big win for him.

On to Shogun. Shogun is my favorite fighter of all time, I will be all over his nuts forever. That isnt to say I would make excuses for him, or be afraid to criticize.

Shogun was a number 1 205lb fighter. Its obvious that it either got to his head, or he hasnt been motivated. Seeing those earlier interviews he was nothing short of chubby which implies that he wasnt training too hard previously. Now while he looked good coming into the fight, it became obvious that he didnt bother to train. To be honest it looked like he spent all his time training with his brother, you have to train with one of the best to be the best.. where was Wand?

Shogun didnt take the UFC serious, he didnt take Forrest serious and he made a HUGE mistake. Not to say Forrest wouldnt have beaten Shogun in his prime, Forrest has come a long way and matched up very well. But when Shogun Gases after 4 minutes and looks like a complete flop, you know he wasnt ready for the UFC yet. 10 minute 1st rounds in Pride were tough, Shogun went the distance with Nog and looked great the whole fight.. 

Back to square 1 for Shogun.. He is going to have to work if he want that number 1 spot back, and in order to get it he is going to have to be holding the belt. Time to get a new base, change up the way you train and work your way back up to the top.


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## SuzukS (Nov 11, 2006)

Jesus FN Christ!! Forrest by RNC who would have actually predicted that!?


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## ozz525 (Oct 5, 2006)

This is some crazy shit. I am picking the underdog everytime from now on.


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## sillywillybubba (Oct 15, 2006)

I havnt got that excited over a fight in some time. i was so glad that forrest was able to make him tap, and not let it go to the judges. After the bisping hamel fight i feel that any decision is suspect. i was waiting for liddel to get the desision in his fight, even though it was clear he lost.


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## flm74 (Oct 16, 2006)

Man, I really don't think people are giving Forrest the credit he deserves for this fight. Too many people are looking at Shogun gassing or supposedly not taking the fight seriously. I think that's a load of horse shit. People always talk about Shoguns gas tank but no one ever mentions Forrests. The dude is always in shape and ready to fight an action packed 3 round war. Not once have I seen that dude not be able to put up a fight in the late rounds. Even in the TUF1 Finale where he was definitely gassing he just kept coming forward. I said in a thread a few weeks ago that people are really doing a disservice to Forrest by thinking Shogun would walk through him, the guy is a fierce competitor and gives it everything for every fight. His two losses in the UFC were against quality opponents, and he was beating one (Jardine) before the knock out and he arguably beat Ortiz. He isn't a joke or a reality show fluke.

All of that aside I still thought Shogun would win, not by domination but in a 3 round war. I love the fact that Forrest tried the best he could to take it out of the judges hands, he could have stopped fighting with about 2 minutes to go and still won that fight. I'm a big fan of both, more-so Forrest because he is always discredited as a reality show star and not a real fighter, so I'm just glad that is was an exciting fight.


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## murrayjb (Oct 17, 2006)

Man, oh man. Xtreme Couture is the fuckin place to be....


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## wafb (May 8, 2007)

lol, now everybody's saying I told you so and picked Forrest to win but when you go to vbookie you can see they bet a ton on Shogun.:confused03:


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## tomjones (Mar 18, 2007)

I was shocked at the size difference.... Forrest looked huge. They didnt even look in the same weight class.


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## esv (Oct 4, 2006)

this is horrible.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Forrest looked really good in this fight. I knew he would come in 110% and I knew he was training very hard for this fight, and it definitely showed. I don't think Pride superstars doing bad reflects on their skill, but rather their training. I don't think Shogun took this fight as serious as Griffin, and definitely didn't train as hard. I'm very surprised Shogun gassed though, I always thought the #1 aspect of Shogun was his gas tank that never ran out. I can't think of how many times Bas has commented on the amasingness of it, guess Bas was mistaken


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

Well not sure if anyone mentioned this, but shogun just got married and i am not sure if that affected his training. But it was obivous he didn't have the cardio which is suprising because the fist round in pride is waht 15 mins long (correct me if i am wrong). Hopefully he learns from this and props to Forrest for out battling him.


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## Robb2140 (Oct 21, 2006)

double post


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## Robb2140 (Oct 21, 2006)

I love how everyone said Forrest had no chance at beating Shogun It looks like all the diehard Shogun fans forget thier passwords:dunno: . 

Forrest is a a gamer, he rises to his competition.


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## bedcommando (Oct 16, 2006)

the outcome surprised the hell outta me... i haven't watched it yet but wow... thats gotta be good for forrest's future in ufc... as for shogun hopefully he bounces back and wakes up and doesn't end up on a bench with crocop... maybe a crocop vs shogun? haha


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## e-thug (Jan 18, 2007)

Mad props to Forrest man! ya cant take anythin away from Forrest...

Im not gonna let Shogun get away with any excuses...seems like he took Forrest a tad bit lightly and didnt train as hard as he usually does and paid the ultimate price.

Shogun is only 25 though, its a setback but he shall be back!


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## UFCfan610 (Mar 28, 2007)

WAR FORREST!!!! Forrest won me a lot of points last night.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> Forrest looked really good in this fight. I knew he would come in 110% and I knew he was training very hard for this fight, and it definitely showed. I don't think Pride superstars doing bad reflects on their skill, but rather their training. I don't think Shogun took this fight as serious as Griffin, and definitely didn't train as hard. I'm very surprised Shogun gassed though, I always thought the #1 aspect of Shogun was his gas tank that never ran out. I can't think of how many times Bas has commented on the amasingness of it, guess Bas was mistaken


Shogun had a Ninja like gas tank last night. Forrest was too big and out boxed him. When Rua got gassed he couldn't take him down or control him once it got there. I was surprised with how cautious he was. Balls to the wall Shogun.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Shogun said he repected Forrest as a fighter, but do you think he really did?


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## TerribleOne (Jul 12, 2007)

mlsman23 said:


> Shogun said he repected Forrest as a fighter, but do you think he really did?


Im sure he respected him as a fighter, Nothing about Forrest is disrespectful soo..

But respecting a fighter, and believing too much in your own talent are two different things. Forrest wanted that win, and got it.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Terry77 said:


> Shogun had a Ninja like gas tank last night. Forrest was too big and out boxed him. When Rua got gassed he couldn't take him down or control him once it got there. I was surprised with how cautious he was. Balls to the wall Shogun.


I know. He came in looking for the TD and tried to GnP his way to victory, basically he tried to take the safer route to winning the fight. That sure back fired on him:sarcastic01:


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Shogun's only 25 and already has an amazing resume. He'll be back stronger and better. The ufc loses a contender in the short term, but gains a star in the long run.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> He came in looking for the TD and tried to GnP his way to victory


You mean like he always does?


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## -Lukas- (Feb 21, 2007)

plazzman said:


> Does anyone want to agree with that?


No, the guy's a *** and a troll, ignore him


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## flawed888 (Apr 11, 2007)

why are you talking to the trolls plazzman?


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## jehu pitchfork (Feb 4, 2007)

mlsman23 said:


> Shogun said he repected Forrest as a fighter, but do you think he really did?


i think he absolutely did. it SEEMS he just underestimated him & didn't take into account forrests' growth as a well rounded fighter w/ every fight he takes on. tough shit for shogun. he's fought AMAZING fighters & should have NEVER gassed THAT bad, imo.

forrest owned that fight & earned every bit of his accolades for this victory.


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

Im not, just look at my first post in this thread and then look at the immediate response


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## chaoyungphat (Apr 8, 2007)

Even though shogun said he respected him, it showed in his performance that he underestimated him a lot. He couldn't even last the 2nd round without getting tired. In pride he attacked his opponents relentlessly in a 10min round. In the fight against Griffen, he had a min break and still got tired. That shows how he didn't prepare well enough for this fight.


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## Wayneraltman (Aug 27, 2007)

*Overated*

Shogun was OVERATED plain and simple. Read this thread (and many others) from before the fight. To say Shogun was heavily favored is being kind. 

I would not be the one to say PRIDE fighters were juicing, for one because I do not think they were better anyway. 

Nick Diaz is a great example... He went to PRIDE and beat the hell out of his opponent GOMI. It was only overturned because he smoked some weed. (I am sure no one in here does that) 

This has happend several times and several times fighters have gone from PRIDE and gotten thier asses kicked in the UFC. 

Time to put away PRIDE and just see how the fighter does in the organisations that still exsist.:thumb02:


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## jeepersd (Feb 2, 2007)

2-D said:


> the price of gas is more expensive in the USA compared to Brazil.



Funny stuff man,never thought of that!!Ha ha ha ha


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## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

robb2140 said:


> I love how everyone said Forrest had no chance at beating Shogun It looks like all the diehard Shogun fans forget thier passwords:dunno: .
> 
> Forrest is a a gamer, he rises to his competition.


Well I didnt forget my password. Im not a die hard Shogun fan, but I did have him rated really high. It takes a real man to admit that hes wrong, and I am that man. I just honestly dont know what the deal was with his gas tank last night.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Awesome fight. Forrest dominated Shogun. I havent been that excited since Serra KOed GSP! 

As posted on 09-21-2007, 09:47 PM



Flak said:


> I think its going to be all forrest all night.
> 
> Different rules, cage, elbows, jitters, size of the octagon...all things forrest is used to dealing with and shogun isn't. Not to mention that Forrest is a good fighter who really wanted this fight.


I honestly think the Pride guys get padded a lot. They often fight less than top contender guys and ofcourse look amazing killing them. I think the top Pride guys are equal to the top UFC guys, but the UFC divisions are much deeper overall, and i think we're starting to see Pride exposed a little bit.

Shogun got schooled, and that should be seen as a wakeup call for the rest of the Pride guys. You will not walk through the UFC on your way to the title. You need to take it seriously and train hard.

I also hope this puts Fedor on notice. You can no longer assume dominance in Pride = dominance in the UFC. You better come on over and prove yourself big boy.


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## flm74 (Oct 16, 2006)

asskicker said:


> Well I didnt forget my password. Im not a die hard Shogun fan, but I did have him rated really high. It takes a real man to admit that hes wrong, and I am that man. I just honestly dont know what the deal was with his gas tank last night.


What happened to his gas tank is Forrest pushing the pace and never letting up.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

IMO he gassed so fast because he normally does roids, and now he had to come in clean. People will say "roids don't help your cardio you n00b"....but listen up. For one there are roids out there that specifically work on your cardio. For another, if he was taking roids for training, means he could train longer and harder, and be in better shape come fight time. Without the roids his training had to be slowed down, in the event of overtraining. So, this is what Shogun and other PRIDE fighters look like when they don't use roids while training for a fight.

IMO.


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## Robb2140 (Oct 21, 2006)

asskicker said:


> Well I didnt forget my password. Im not a die hard Shogun fan, but I did have him rated really high. It takes a real man to admit that hes wrong, and I am that man. I just honestly dont know what the deal was with his gas tank last night.


I wasn't directing my post at you.

More so at the Shogun fans that could not grasp the concept that Shogun could...*gasp* actually lose and that despite that Griffen was on TUF he is actually a very good fighter.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> IMO he gassed so fast because he normally does roids, and now he had to come in clean. People will say "roids don't help your cardio you n00b"....but listen up. For one there are roids out there that specifically work on your cardio. For another, if he was taking roids for training, means he could train longer and harder, and be in better shape come fight time. Without the roids his training had to be slowed down, in the event of overtraining. So, this is what Shogun and other PRIDE fighters look like when they don't use roids while training for a fight.
> 
> IMO.


Be honest man, it felt good to say that didn't it? :laugh: 

I'm very happy Forrest picked up the win, I think hes developing into a true contender and last night showed that.

No one has told me what he said in his post fight interview though yet, someone give me details!


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

robb2140 said:


> I wasn't directing my post at you.
> 
> More so at the Shogun fans that could not grasp the concept that Shogun could...*gasp* actually lose and that despite that Griffen was on TUF he is actually a very good fighter.


Yep, and I still don't get why people think this is that big of an upset. It was actually a pretty even fight. Forrest is a really good fighter, and I guess it took him schooling Shogun to prove that. Oh well, at least people know now. To me, and a few others, this wasn't that big of an upset.

But, there were Shogun fans who actually thought he was a great striker. Actually, I remember some people (Not on this board) actually saying that Nakamura was a great striker and that he was going to school Machida in the stand-up department. Why? Because Nak outstruck Shogun. I just about died laughing.

So yeah, I'm glad Shogun lost, and this is coming from a Shogun fan. Then again, I'm also a Forrest fan.


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## wafb (May 8, 2007)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> IMO he gassed so fast because he normally does roids, and now he had to come in clean. People will say "roids don't help your cardio you n00b"....but listen up. For one there are roids out there that specifically work on your cardio. For another, if he was taking roids for training, means he could train longer and harder, and be in better shape come fight time. Without the roids his training had to be slowed down, in the event of overtraining. So, this is what Shogun and other PRIDE fighters look like when they don't use roids while training for a fight.
> 
> IMO.



Boldenone was great for endurance but made me hungry a lot. Fina made my body look great but I was huffing and puffing the whole time I was on it. Steroids are great when you're on it but when you get off you feel like a mere mortal. I guess that's why a lot of people never get off of it.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

wafb said:


> Boldenone was great for endurance but made hungry a lot. Fina made my body look great but I was huffing and puffing the whole time I was on it. Steroids are great when you're on it but when you get off you feel like a mere mortal. I guess that's why a lot of people never get off of it.


Yea there are other hormones you can take that specifically target your red blood cells and give you more endurance. People piss me off when they say "you take roids to build muscle n00b, if anything it HURTS their cardio, get your facts straight"...those people can SMD.


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## Robb2140 (Oct 21, 2006)

Damone said:


> Yep, and I still don't get why people think this is that big of an upset. It was actually a pretty even fight. Forrest is a really good fighter, and I guess it took him schooling Shogun to prove that. Oh well, at least people know now. To me, and a few others, this wasn't that big of an upset.
> 
> But, there were Shogun fans who actually thought he was a great striker. Actually, I remember some people (Not on this board) actually saying that Nakamura was a great striker and that he was going to school Machida in the stand-up department. Why? Because Nak outstruck Shogun. I just about died laughing.
> 
> So yeah, I'm glad Shogun lost, and this is coming from a Shogun fan. Then again, I'm also a Forrest fan.



This was a big eye opener for those people who think that any fighter is invincible. According to Vegas I believe Griffen was +250, which made him an underdog but not a ridiculis one. Matt Serra was +650 in his fight with GSP, now that is a heavy heavy underdog.

I give alot of credit to forrest, he came prepared and finished the #1 ranked LHW in the world in convincing fashion. 

This made me very happy as well, I like both fighters, but I was glad to see Griffen silence all the Shogun nutthuggers, who IMO were some of the most unreasonable, irrational, unrealistic fans who would go with thier heart rather than thier brains.

I don't mean all Shogun fans, just the ones who thought that he didn't have any weaknesses and was unbeatable.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

You're talking about blood doping WL2FU. They take your own blood, extract the blood cells and reinject them. Gives you a high hemocrite level which allows better oxygen intake/distribution which has a direct effect on fatigue.
Then you have things like EPO that help endurance too. Its no mystery that doping improves endurance. Ask a pro cyclist. It’s not always straight testosterone, although that works too….ask Floyd Landis.

That said, lack of doping doesn't produce what we saw. It contributed (if he did actually dope before), but Forrest pace and pressure was the primary cause. He can bring it, we all knew that (well some of us did apparently), and he's used to working while he's fatigued from his training. Clearly, Shogun is not.


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## teachbug (Sep 18, 2007)

I'm so proud of Forrest, hes a good guy. I would like to see him with the belt...it would be doubtful, but then everyone thought that shogun cat was unbeatable as well.
The way stuff is working out I wouldn't count out anyone in an underdog role.:thumbsup:


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## iSHACKABUKU (Sep 11, 2007)

This for me, was one of the best fights EVER, my favourite fighter calls out shogun and wins. wow


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

Flak said:


> You're talking about blood doping WL2FU. They take your own blood, extract the blood cells and reinject them. Gives you a high hemocrite level which allows better oxygen intake/distribution which has a direct effect on fatigue.
> Then you have things like EPO that help endurance too. Its no mystery that doping improves endurance. Ask a pro cyclist. It’s not always straight testosterone, although that works too….ask Floyd Landis.
> 
> That said, lack of doping doesn't produce what we saw. It contributed (if he did actually dope before), but Forrest pace and pressure was the primary cause. He can bring it, we all knew that (well some of us did apparently), and he's used to working while he's fatigued from his training. Clearly, Shogun is not.


You are 100% right. EPO is what I was hinting at. And yea, Griffin beat him fair and square. You won't hear me downplaying his achievement, I was one of the few who thought he would be a horrible matchup for Shogun, and I was right...so I'm happy :thumb02:


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## wafb (May 8, 2007)

Is EPO on the banned list in the UFC?


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

wafb said:


> Is EPO on the banned list in the UFC?


Good question...I personally have absolutely no clue...but I assumed it was. Nandrolone is, and that's a natural chemical produced by your body as well. :dunno:


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

I'm sure it is. It's a fairly well known drug and its effects are well documented at this point.


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## TerribleOne (Jul 12, 2007)

How is it Forrest Griffin can keep wind that entire fight without taking steroids? You fools are all saying Shogun and Cro Cop took steroids for their conditioning, I cant seem to understand where you come off..

How can certian fighters get lots of praise for their conditioning, and pass steroid tests? They work their asses off and train very hard on their endurance! You can have great cardio without taking illegal supplements. How is it some people cant believe shogun had great cardio from great training just like any other Flavor of the Month fighter?

Fact. You can have great cardio by focusing exercises on your cardio. BUT your cardio can severely diminish if you stop working on it, and if you change up the style of your living.

Only Shogun knows the true reason for his cardio decline, but jumping and saying its because he used to take steroids for his cardio is ludicrous. His cardio back in Pride was great, but I still wouldnt consider it up to the cardio of the 44 year old Randy Couture who achieves it through hard work.

I honestly wonder how the world survive if Randy gets tired, or loses a match. There will be so many people turning around, it will effect the earths orbit.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

What I was getting at is Shogun is used to using roids IN MY OPINION and the lack of them during training this time made him suffer. I'm not saying Forrest isn't on roids, but I'm also not saying I think he is. In my opinion Shogun was on roids while in PRIDE. I'm not bashing him for it though, so don't get me wrong. If it wasn't enforced in PRIDE then I don't think there is anything wrong with using, you would almost be dumb not to. It made fights more exciting and it doesn't affect or hurt me in any way so I don't care. I just wish people would not be so defensive about it.


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## Randy GNP (Nov 24, 2006)

I can't believe how many people are making excuses for Shogun (no wait, I can). You pride nut huggers just got your nuts squished. Shogun didn't gas, he did take the fight seriously. He was using elbows (not alowed in pride) wich shows he trained pretty seriously.

I think Forrest showed he was the better fighter (at least that night) and you guys should stop trying to take it away from him. He didn't gas, he was rocked by forrest's huge punches. Those shots made him look tired, but it was just that he was wobbly.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

He may or may not have doped in Pride, but i think his lack of conditioning last night was a result of a lack of training.

Forrest came in good shape, Shogun didn't. I see no reason to overlook this simple answer in favour of a complicated one (roids).


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## Robb2140 (Oct 21, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> What I was getting at is Shogun is used to using roids IN MY OPINION and the lack of them during training this time made him suffer. I'm not saying Forrest isn't on roids, but I'm also not saying I think he is. In my opinion Shogun was on roids while in PRIDE. I'm not bashing him for it though, so don't get me wrong. If it wasn't enforced in PRIDE then I don't think there is anything wrong with using, you would almost be dumb not to. It made fights more exciting and it doesn't affect or hurt me in any way so I don't care. I just wish people would not be so defensive about it.



exactly, if they are'nt testing and everybody else is diong it then you would be a fool not to juice. These guys make thier living fighting and in the fickle world of MMA, your only as good as your last couple of fights. Losing 3-4 fights in a row is devastating for a fighters career. Alot of these guys don't know how to do much else and this sport is getting more and more lucrative every year.


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## UFCfan610 (Mar 28, 2007)

TerribleOne said:


> How is it Forrest Griffin can keep wind that entire fight without taking steroids? You fools are all saying Shogun and Cro Cop took steroids for their conditioning, I cant seem to understand where you come off..
> 
> How can certian fighters get lots of praise for their conditioning, and pass steroid tests? They work their asses off and train very hard on their endurance! You can have great cardio without taking illegal supplements. How is it some people cant believe shogun had great cardio from great training just like any other Flavor of the Month fighter?
> 
> ...


no testing in Japan.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

I honestly don't see how anyone can jump to the conclusion that Shogun was a roid monkey.

He didn't look in as good of shape as he did in his Pride days, but that doesn't surprise me seeing as he hasn't fought in 6 months.


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## teachbug (Sep 18, 2007)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> What I was getting at is Shogun is used to using roids IN MY OPINION and the lack of them during training this time made him suffer. I'm not saying Forrest isn't on roids, but I'm also not saying I think he is. In my opinion Shogun was on roids while in PRIDE. I'm not bashing him for it though, so don't get me wrong. If it wasn't enforced in PRIDE then I don't think there is anything wrong with using, you would almost be dumb not to. It made fights more exciting and it doesn't affect or hurt me in any way so I don't care. I just wish people would not be so defensive about it.


If they havent been caught in a UFC fight, then they havent done it. Where do you get the roids thing? nothing leads to roids.
so far ONLY sherk has roided out.


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## Wayneraltman (Aug 27, 2007)

*Very good post*



Randy GNP said:


> I can't believe how many people are making excuses for Shogun (no wait, I can). You pride nut huggers just got your nuts squished. Shogun didn't gas, he did take the fight seriously. He was using elbows (not alowed in pride) wich shows he trained pretty seriously.
> 
> I think Forrest showed he was the better fighter (at least that night) and you guys should stop trying to take it away from him. He didn't gas, he was rocked by forrest's huge punches. Those shots made him look tired, but it was just that he was wobbly.


Pos Reppedraise01: :thumb02: 

That was nicely done..


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## AnMMAFan (Jan 4, 2007)

Forrest was awesome, Rogon had it right when he said Forest is that good, the guy just gets better and better. And what a great finish, he must have known he was up on the cards but why not take out Shogun with a RNC with 15 seconds left, awesome :thumb02:


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## wafb (May 8, 2007)

teachbug said:


> If they havent been caught in a UFC fight, then they havent done it. Where do you get the roids thing? nothing leads to roids.
> so far ONLY sherk has roided out.


uhm, tim sylvia, hermes franca, bonnar. Although I don't blame Bonnar since he bought the supplement at GNC,LOL.


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## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

teachbug said:


> If they havent been caught in a UFC fight, then they havent done it. Where do you get the roids thing? nothing leads to roids.
> so far ONLY sherk has roided out.


I dont get whats so hard to understand here. People arent saying Shogun cheated against Forrest. Their trying to find an explanation as to why Shoguns cardio was top of the line in Pride and awful in his UFC debut. Since Pride didnt test for steroids its possible he used them then and doesnt anymore, resulting in poor cardio.

No Shogun hasnt been caught doing anything illegal but that doesnt mean we cant discuss possible explanations as to why he looked so much different. Thats kinda the point of a forum afterall.


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## ego247 (Sep 24, 2007)

*Shoguns Cardio*

If you noticed in pride Shogun would KO most of his opponents in the first round or early second. The tools Shogun uses to KO his opponents aren't available to him under the current rules of UFC. Read below my complaint letter that I just sent to the UFC:





This is going to be a long email and I hope the proper people will take the time to read it.

I have never been a fan of the UFC. I am however a very large fan of MMA. I was dedicated to watching PRIDE FC. I do understand now that the majority owners of UFC have purchased PRIDE and that their return is unlikely since the UFC has started acquiring their best fighters. 

Here's my argument. The reason PRIDE was better in my mind as well as many others was because of the excitement. It’s as simple as that. There are only a few rule adjustments that you could implement to make UFC unbelievably exciting. 

14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent. 

You wonder why Shogun, one of the most entertaining fighters anyone has ever seen and reputed by many as the best light heavyweight in the world was moderately boring and even lost on the 22nd? Those 3 rules are his weapons. They make him the feared dangerous fighter that all your fans would not hesitate paying to see. 

I understand you offer legal elbows and since he is a great fighter he studied the rules and did use elbows effectively against his opponent but do you understand how vastly more entertaining that fight would have been if Shogun could have started one of his stomping and soccer kicking rampages? It would have been an all time UFC classic!! Elbows hurt, yes the fans understand that but for the fans, the consumers of the product that UFC is selling, those elbows do not provide the same entertainment as a soccer kick to the head or a flying stomp while the opponent is on the ground.

I've tried to watch the UFC since it's purchase of PRIDE FC but I'm only minimally entertained at best. I've decided to watch old recorded PRIDE fights until another MMA provider offers the rules of entertainment that make MMA exciting again.

If you read all of this thank you for the consideration.

Shawn M. Crim


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## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

Dont waste your time the UFC doesnt make the rules the Nevada State Athletics Commision does


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## Zemelya (Sep 23, 2007)

Not trying to make any excuses for Shogun, though i just recently downloaded watched his whole career, from ValeTudo (i think) to Pride... he lost 1 fight in begining of career to grapling specialist with mucho experience, and all of his Pride fights are adrenaline and power packed as hell. after watching how he does spinning head kicks and flying knees in second round with good damage received already, it's very hard to see and even believe his gasing out in 2nd round (which would be still 1st in Pride). 
and just like his brother in EliteXC, he gassed out basically only because of punching he did with no real damage. and now look at other UFC76 fights -> nobody else gassed out for some reason, not the smaller less experience dudes and not big fellas like Chuck and Keith who had their asses kicked good during all 3 rounds.

In EliteXC they said that Shogun got married recently, maybe whole ChuteBox is on the drinking spree ?


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

I figured a reason why he might of lossed! He used the same entrance song as Ken Shamrock did for his last two fights with Tito:laugh: 



ego247 said:


> If you noticed in pride Shogun would KO most of his opponents in the first round or early second. The tools Shogun uses to KO his opponents aren't available to him under the current rules of UFC. Read below my complaint letter that I just sent to the UFC:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


UFC doesn't make the rules and I don't think the rule changes hurt him all that bad, did you see that elbow he opened up Forrest with, but I actually think Forrest ended up smiling. So stop using the rules as an excuse he lossed to a TUF fighter get over it. He'll live to fight another day and if you're whining about losing money it's not like you're the only one that did either.


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## Adrnalnrsh (Jul 18, 2006)

*Joe Rogan - Called Shogun*

Ninja twice in the beginning of the fight, shouldn't that have been Goldie's mistake?


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

No? He said the wrong word and acknowledged it.


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## mercom (Jun 16, 2007)

is there a point to this?


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## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

People mistake the two all the time. Announcers have called Ninja Shogun and vice versa time and time again. *shrug*


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## Adrnalnrsh (Jul 18, 2006)

Lets see, watch the fight again and you'll see he did it twice, and acknowledged it after doing it the second time. 

Now for someone who was excited to see Shogun come to the UFC, you'd think he wouldn't make a mistake like that. I am thinking someone that familiar with MMA from a fans perspective wouldn't do that. Hence why I said Goldie should of been the one.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

Adrnalnrsh said:


> Lets see, watch the fight again and you'll see he did it twice, and acknowledged it after doing it the second time.
> 
> Now for someone who was excited to see Shogun come to the UFC, you'd think he wouldn't make a mistake like that. I am thinking someone that familiar with MMA from a fans perspective wouldn't do that. Hence why I said Goldie should of been the one.


 He probably watched Ninja get knocked out last week. He probably kept seeing Ninja in Shogun's corner. It probably has absolutely nothing to do with a lack of knowledge on Rogan's part. 

After all, this is the same guy that called Cro Cop Fedor a couple of weeks earlier. It's nothing new.


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## ego247 (Sep 24, 2007)

I know UFC doesn't make the rules but they did have the ability to keep a MMA organization in the country of Japan where the rules are way more relaxed. 

I was never saying that the PRIDE fighters or organization were any better then UFC but they had better rules implied which will in the long run make their fights more exciting. UFC could continue with a branch off in Japan were there already is a heavy fan base in addition to great pay per view revenue.

There were several times in the Shogun fight were he would have Forrest in a closed guard and he would manipulate him to the point were he'd stand up and you know he wanted to step on his head. That's what made Shogun famous. His head stomps.


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## Wayneraltman (Aug 27, 2007)

*Happens all the time*



jasvll said:


> He probably watched Ninja get knocked out last week. He probably kept seeing Ninja in Shogun's corner. It probably has absolutely nothing to do with a lack of knowledge on Rogan's part.
> 
> After all, this is the same guy that called Cro Cop Fedor a couple of weeks earlier. It's nothing new.



I have two kids, I live with those kids everyday. I mix up thier names everyday. 

Joe Rogan is by far the best announcer in MMA, much better than Bas "Mush Mouth" Ruttan, Frank "Evil Kenival" Mir, or the Yahoos they have on BODOG. Plus he is funnier than hell in his stand up act. :thumb02:


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## Wayneraltman (Aug 27, 2007)

*Do not need new rules*



ego247 said:


> I know UFC doesn't make the rules but they did have the ability to keep a MMA organization in the country of Japan where the rules are way more relaxed.
> 
> I was never saying that the PRIDE fighters or organization were any better then UFC but they had better rules implied which will in the long run make their fights more exciting. UFC could continue with a branch off in Japan were there already is a heavy fan base in addition to great pay per view revenue.
> 
> There were several times in the Shogun fight were he would have Forrest in a closed guard and he would manipulate him to the point were he'd stand up and you know he wanted to step on his head. That's what made Shogun famous. His head stomps.


That is the point I think, Why have several different sets of rules? If it was that much better to have Pride rules, the UFC would never have been able to run PRIDE into the ground in the first place. 

Shogun lost because he went up against a much much better fighter. He was out of shape, and was not as skilled as his opponent. It was painfully apparent to anyone watching that Rua either did not take this fight seriously, or was highly overrated, or both. 

Dana White is correct, PRIDE is the very first organization I can think of that had a fan base. Most organizations have fighters who have fans, but PRIDE had it's own fans. How in the WORLD they went BK with so many fans is beyond me.:thumb02:


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## AnMMAFan (Jan 4, 2007)

Wayneraltman said:


> I have two kids, I live with those kids everyday. I mix up thier names everyday.
> 
> Joe Rogan is by far the best announcer in MMA, much better than Bas "Mush Mouth" Ruttan, Frank "Evil Kenival" Mir, or the Yahoos they have on BODOG. Plus he is funnier than hell in his stand up act. :thumb02:


Rogan does a stand up act? I gotta check out Youtube and find me some of that :laugh:

I appreciate Rogan's knowlege of BJJ. One thing he should drop though is yelling "unbeleivable!" after most fights. He might not mean to but it makes it sound like the winning fighter had no chance going in. He yelled that after Randy beat Gonzaga. Well maybe he did count out Randy... Not me!

P.s. The Bodog/boxing commentator the "colonel" especially sucks calling mma.


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## Wayneraltman (Aug 27, 2007)

*Myspace*



AnMMAFan said:


> Rogan does a stand up act? I gotta check out Youtube and find me some of that :laugh:


Go to his MYSPACE page, he is a very funny MOFO...

Check out him bashing the **** out of Carlos Mencia:thumb02: 

Carlos is a joke thief and has this huge group of comedians after him, but afraid of saying anything. Joe Rogan is the ONLY one going after him, and it is funny as ****. :thumb02:


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## Adrnalnrsh (Jul 18, 2006)

Watch his Noah's Ark video on Myspace.


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## AnMMAFan (Jan 4, 2007)

Wayneraltman said:


> Go to his MYSPACE page, he is a very funny MOFO...
> 
> Check out him bashing the **** out of Carlos Mencia:thumb02:
> 
> Carlos is a joke thief and has this huge group of comedians after him, but afraid of saying anything. Joe Rogan is the ONLY one going after him, and it is funny as ****. :thumb02:





Adrnalnrsh said:


> Watch his Noah's Ark video on Myspace.


Thanks guys gonna check these out tonight :thumb02:


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## benn (Dec 4, 2006)

I hope Shogun learned a lot from that fight.
He is after all one of the best LHW fighters in the world at only 25 yrs. old. I to thought he would win against Forrest.
Big props to Forrest for asking for this fight and actually winning.

Anyone who beats Shogun should be considered top 5 fighters in the world IMO.


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## Wayneraltman (Aug 27, 2007)

*Gotta side with Joe*



AnMMAFan said:


> Rogan does a stand up act? I gotta check out Youtube and find me some of that :laugh:
> 
> I appreciate Rogan's knowlege of BJJ. One thing he should drop though is yelling "unbeleivable!" after most fights. He might not mean to but it makes it sound like the winning fighter had no chance going in. He yelled that after Randy beat Gonzaga. Well maybe he did count out Randy... Not me!
> 
> P.s. The Bodog/boxing commentator the "colonel" especially sucks calling mma.


I do not think he means it like that. PLUS I LOVE the fact he is excited as I am about these fights. 

I agree the Colonel sucks balls, I watch Bodog with the sound down, and Frank Mir is just irritating to watch... the quirky SOB. 

I want Mike Goldberg dead, just put Randy Couture, and Joe Rogan together, tell them to only speak if it is IMPORTANT, and let's call it even. :thumb02:


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## AnMMAFan (Jan 4, 2007)

Wayneraltman said:


> I do not think he means it like that. PLUS I LOVE the fact he is excited as I am about these fights.
> 
> I agree the Colonel sucks balls, I watch Bodog with the sound down, and Frank Mir is just irritating to watch... the quirky SOB.
> 
> I want Mike Goldberg dead, just put Randy Couture, and Joe Rogan together, tell them to only speak if it is IMPORTANT, and let's call it even. :thumb02:


I know we're getting off topic here but to set the record straight, I do think Rogan is an awesome mma commentator and you're right his excitement is genuine. :thumbsup: The "unbeleivable!" thing was my only minor complaint and yeah I think you're right I doubt he really means he counted out the fighter. Looking forward to seeing that guy's whacky humor. :laugh:


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## Dozi (Sep 24, 2007)

I kinda like Goldie hehe, but yes Randy would be a much better full time guy.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

wafb said:


> lol, now everybody's saying I told you so and picked Forrest to win but when you go to vbookie you can see they bet a ton on Shogun.:confused03:



ehhh I bet the odds and make safe bets when it comes to betting but in any thread you will ee I said forrest would win heck even this one go back and you will see :thumb02:


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## ego247 (Sep 24, 2007)

You are right that PRIDE had it's own fan base. But it works a lot like baseball. PRIDE never had the finances that UFC had. Eventually the fighters will go to the team that offers them more money. There is no salary cap so therefore the chances of your team winning when competing against someone with way more resources are slim to none.

PRIDE didn't go bankrupt though. They were simply offered more money than they knew what to do with and I guess there actual pride was put on the shelf. They sold out.

There is nothing stopping Zuppa from continuing to compete in Japan using what you have to admit is a more entertaining rule base.


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## Breda (Sep 24, 2007)

Hey I hope this hasn't been posted yet. I checked this thread and couldn't find it but I'm a little short on time. Anyways....

Does anyone have the quotes from Forrest after his fight on Saturday? The ones right after the fight when Joe interviews him. I wasn't at my place so I don't have it tivoed and I want to remember what he said because I remember cracking up over something he said. I was too drunk to remember what he said. But anyways, does anyone have those quotes? Thanks.


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## Andrist (Sep 13, 2007)

Goldberg's persona (real or affected) is a bridge for a large portion of the UFC's fanbase. There's actually a point to having Rogun explain stuff throughout the fight. I can't decide if they're annoying or comical most of the time. 

I'd like more mics in/around the ring so the announcers don't drown out so much of the fighting.

oh and headstomps are bad mkay


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## AnMMAFan (Jan 4, 2007)

Andrist said:


> I'd like more mics in/around the ring so the announcers don't drown out so much of the fighting.


YES, notice there was a problem on Spike and no announcer audio for the first 15 minutes of the recent UFN on Spike? I remember during that time, first round, punches and kicks sounded like bats hitting sides of beef, just brutal :eek03:, really put you inside that Octogon. Then after the commercial break, announcer audio was fixed. It was pretty cool, more mics to pick up sounds of the fight would be a good idea. :thumbsup:


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