# why aren't there more top black MMA fighters?



## Royce (Nov 10, 2008)

i was wondering about this and would like to hear what u think.

the way i see it - blacks are dominating many sports that requires great athletiscism such as : basketball,football, athletics and good old boxing.blacks are a bit better genetically suited to excel in those fields. 

<of course that doesn't mean there cant be great champions from other races in those fields..it just means that blacks are likely to do better than their pure percentage in the general population>.

to my point - the only top MMA black fighters i can think of are Rashad Evans..Rampage Jackson and of course Anderson silve.<whice is brazilian..so it might be abit diffrent culturally>.

im probablly forgeting someone <and im sure u will soon remind me  > but still - i would expect to see much more than those 3 or 4 or 5 - due to the reasons i talked about before.

why do u think blacks aren't dominating in MMA as much as they are in other sports?


<bonus question - why are brazilians doing so great in MMA ? >

i do have a little theory but i would to hear what u think..

p.s- i know it might be abit of asensitive subject but i think it could be an intresting debate and we are all mature enought to keep it classy


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

The racism in this post is impressive, but I know you didn't mean it. One could argue that _some _ black people don't have the economic means to train in a real gym, which could be said for any other race, but to be honest, if you're good enough, I don't know why a gym wouldn't except you. There are so many other factors than race, that in the end, I don't really think it makes a difference.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Melvin Manhoeff

Melvin Guillard was considered, but certainly not top tier. He is in the UFC though and that means something. 

But mostly because training for MMA is expensive most likely. Lots of african american families come from poverty. MIght also have to do with being given a chance or being marketed or represented by the right people. Also, lots of kids view training in fighting as being a p*ssy. Not sure how blacks feel about that, but I would assume that is a non-race specific thought for younger kids and teenagers. 

Any theory on why there aren't more involved at the top level may be construed as racist, but I certainly hope that isn't the case here. I just threw my opinion out there on it. Hoep it wasn't offensive, certainly not intended to be.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Tread carefully in this thread- very carefully.

Why are Brazilians so good at soccer...hmmm?​


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## Royce (Nov 10, 2008)

CornbreadBB said:


> The racism in this post is impressive, but I know you didn't mean it. One could argue that _some _ black people don't have the economic means to train in a real gym, which could be said for any other race, but to be honest, if you're good enough, I don't know why a gym wouldn't except you. There are so many other factors than race, that in the end, I don't really think it makes a difference.


 :confused02: 

sorry but you're being ridiculuos..what is racist about it?
there are many scientific studies that show that blacks are better athletes.<and u can just look at any roster in the sports i mentioned>..

and i dont think training cost that much either.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Royce said:


> and i dont think training cost that much either.


Wow..you must have never trained. And you try adding $400/month at the novice stage to an already tapped budget.


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## nevrsummr13 (Mar 5, 2008)

I would have to say Brazilians are doing so well because it was really the birthplace of MMA so they kind of started before everyone and have stayed slightly ahead


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

Royce said:


> what is racist about it?
> there are many scientific studies that show that blacks are better athletes


Putting any race before another because they're that race is racist. (WHOA.)


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

CornbreadBB said:


> Putting any race before another because they're that race is racist. (WHOA.)


Correct, but doesn't always have to be a negative though. Just a stereotype sort of thing. It wasn't like he was promoting them as inferior or superior. Which would be hate speech. And that would be definition #2,3,4, & 5 of racism which is frowned upon.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

Royce said:


> :confused02:
> 
> sorry but you're being ridiculuos..what is racist about it?
> there are many scientific studies that show that blacks are better athletes.<and u can just look at any roster in the sports i mentioned>..
> ...


training cost shit load of money


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## Royce (Nov 10, 2008)

to be clear..i think it acultural thing..probablly has to do with the places fighters come from < almost nobody from a big city..did u notice that?..many from farms..>..tradition...what is considers 'cool"...and some more factors like that..i dont any time to elaborate right now.

anyway..if i underestimate the sensitivity of the subject a mod can just delete it..i dont see how racism has anything to do with it...but maybe some can get hurt by it and that wasnt my intention..


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Royce said:


> to be clear..i think it acultural thing..probablly has to do with the places fighters come from < almost nobody from a big city..did u notice that?..many from farms..>..tradition...what is considers 'cool"...and some more factors like that..i dont any time to elaborate right now.
> 
> anyway..if i underestimate the sensitivity of the subject a mod can just delete it..i dont see how racism has anything to do with it...but maybe some can get hurt by it and that wasnt my intention..


To say it's a cultural thing is getting close to racism and the farms thing is totally off-base. Then the "cool" factor is even worse- if I follow what you are implying.

This might be a decent discussion minus the gross stereo-types.​


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

Royce said:


> to be clear..i think it acultural thing..probablly has to do with the places fighters come from < almost nobody from a big city..did u notice that?..many from farms..>..tradition...what is considers 'cool"...and some more factors like that..i dont any time to elaborate right now.


I know what you mean and I know you were deff not trying to be racist (no sarcasm), but it still comes off that way. But I mean people like Phillipe Nover who are from Brooklyn completely wreck that point. It really depends on the person, not where they were raised.



ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Correct, but doesn't always have to be a negative though. Just a stereotype sort of thing. It wasn't like he was promoting them as inferior or superior. Which would be hate speech. And that would be definition #2,3,4, & 5 of racism which is frowned upon.


I know, I know, but a stereotype is still a stereotype even if it is positive. I may or may not agree with this D) but it is still not true for every person in that ethnic group to be that way is still a silly thing to say.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Serra and his whole team are from NY (13 million)...Guillard is from New Orleans 500K)...Houston Alexander is from St. Louis...Aurelio is from Fortuleza (3.4 million)...Bisping from Cyprus (800K)...A. Silva from Curitiba (1.8 million)...Shane Carwin from Denver (2.4 million)...Couture from Seattle (20 miles north actually but close enough) (3.4 million)...Rashad Evans from Detroit (4.4 million).

I could go on, but it really is a waste of time. Good fighters come from all over.


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

It seems like most combat sports that go into mma are not black dominated either (except boxing). BJJ is not a sport that I have noticed a lot of blacks doing and wrestling is white dominated even though there are definately some great black wrestlers out there. Judo, muay thai, kickboxing just seem to be more white or non-black sports in general which leads to mma being the same. There are def. some great black participants in every combat sport but they seem to be more in the minority. It has nothing to do with them being unable to or anything, trust me I train with some bad ass black dudes, just watch out for Neal "The Rhino" Craft. Anyway I think its just combat sports in general are not as black dominated as like football, basketball, etc...


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## Satori (Sep 18, 2008)

I agree--- you do not see any Mexican MMA fighters either (FROM MEXICO not from Mexican descendants) Puerto Rico is RENOWNED for there great boxers yet they do not have any MMA fighters either--- actually now that I come to think of it except from Brazil there are no Central or South American MMA fighters or fighters from the Caribbean either---

Ricco Rodriguez is an American MMA of Puerto Rican and Mexican descent
Roger Huerta is from Austin Texas of Mexican decent.
Tito Ortiz is from Huntington Beach California and of Mexican decent.
Diego Sanchez is a Mexican American from Albuquerque New Mexico

See what I mean?


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

kamikaze145 said:


> It seems like most combat sports that go into mma are not black dominated either (except boxing). BJJ is not a sport that I have noticed a lot of blacks doing and wrestling is white dominated even though there are definately some great black wrestlers out there. Judo, muay thai, kickboxing just seem to be more white or non-black sports in general which leads to mma being the same. There are def. some great black participants in every combat sport but they seem to be more in the minority. It has nothing to do with them being unable to or anything, trust me I train with some bad ass black dudes, just watch out for Neal "The Rhino" Craft. Anyway I think its just combat sports in general are not as black dominated as like football, basketball, etc...


Yeah I think his OP was more of why is this the case? sort of thing


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

Well heres another theory. Combat sports and mma in general are heavily technique based sports and although pure athleticism is very useful its all about technique so it depends entirely on an individual's aptitude for fighting and dedication to pick it up the skills needed for success. So blacks being "better athletes" may not be quite as valid a point in a technique based sport as more of a speed/power based sport as like football is IMO.


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## ID06 (Dec 31, 2006)

I've just never met a black person that was good at BJJ, of course there are exceptions but they seem like they just want to hit someone, the same could be said about some of the ******** that come in to our gym.


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## sicc (Mar 4, 2007)

Royce said:


> :confused02:
> 
> sorry but you're being ridiculuos..what is racist about it?
> there are many scientific studies that show that blacks are better athletes.<and u can just look at any roster in the sports i mentioned>..
> ...


Nothing is racist about it, people have had the shit beat into their brains that anytime a white male asks about something to do with blacks that it's automatically racist. Common kneejerk reaction, kind of pathetic IMO.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

kamikaze145 said:


> Well heres another theory. Combat sports and mma in general are heavily technique based sports and although pure athleticism is very useful its all about technique so it depends entirely on an individual's aptitude for fighting and dedication to pick it up the skills needed for success. So blacks being "better athletes" may not be quite as valid a point in a technique based sport as more of a speed/power based sport as like football is IMO.


Agreed...for a real life example look at #5 of my top fighters list.


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Agreed...for a real life example look at #5 of my top fighters list.


Yeah Melvin is an elite athlete and his athleticism fits perfectly for mma but he just has not been dedicated enough to pick up submission grappling or settle down with his stand up. He could really fly if he would pick up the technique.


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## Josh72 (Jun 8, 2008)

Based on what I've observed from all the blacks that I know (Thats quite a few), they all take to boxing over mma. Apparently, kicking and grappling is for pussies.

Again, just what I've seen of the blacks in my area, not trying to make a stereotype or anything.


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

^ I have noticed that too about boxing. Black dudes I have met love to stand up and dont really like the ground game. Like I said I know very good black fighters but in general black guys love boxing. Nothing wrong with that and a lot of black guys are really well built for boxing too.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

I'm sorry guys, but I am just not buying it. It could be my wishful way of thinking, but I honestly don't think skin color changes the way one thinks any more than M&M color changes the way an M&M tastes. I know it may seem silly, but can it possibly be our culture that dictates what someone choses to do? For all I know, you guys may be right, but I chose to believe otherwise.


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## Future_Fighter (Feb 6, 2008)

Josh72 said:


> Based on what I've observed from all the blacks that I know (Thats quite a few), they all take to boxing over mma. Apparently, kicking and grappling is for pussies.
> 
> Again, just what I've seen of the blacks in my area, not trying to make a stereotype or anything.


Same here :bye01:



> Nothing wrong with that and a lot of black guys are really well built for boxing too.


This to


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## Josh72 (Jun 8, 2008)

Another part I forgot. Money, like yall already mentioned.

MMA is an expensive sport to train and compete in. And plain and simple, in general, blacks make up more of the lower class. I've played baseball and football my whole life. In baseball, It's rare to come across a black guy. You have to furnish your own equipment which is costly. Football, the equipment is provided to you by the organization or school, so they can afford to play it. And basketball, all you need is a ball and goal, not too costly.


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## Steph05050 (Jun 4, 2008)

well all the blacks i know could care less about mma and dont even know what it is....ask them about football and basketball and their all game....its just not a dominant sport for them....kinda like baseball...mainly white guys there.....and yes mma has a diverse crowd with people from all over the world participating in it but i just dont think most blacks have a huge interest in mma


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## Josh72 (Jun 8, 2008)

And to the OP, I believe Brazilians dominate the sport because martial arts is just much bigger there. Different countries take to different sports. Baseball and football is to America, what Martial Arts and soccer is to Brazil.


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

Here is another idea. MMA is not really a "white dominated" sport. It has tons of japanese, brazilian, american, and russian, english, and other countries fighters so its just lots of guys who do it well all over the world. Other sports that are "black dominated" are US based sports like Football and basketball. Basketball is played all over the world but overall its a US dominated sport. Maybe its just that sports that are based more in the U.S. tend to be more black dominated. I dont know i am just throwing out ideas.


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## UFCFAN33 (May 29, 2006)

Who even cares about race? As long as the fighters give there all and put on a great fight is what matters.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

CornbreadBB said:


> I honestly don't think skin color changes the way one thinks any more than M&M color changes the way an M&M tastes. .


You cant tast the differances in the M&M's !!!!:confused05: :confused05: :confused05: 

But seriously its not the skin color that makes people think that way but the culture that they grew up in. That is what makes all the difference in the world.

another reason that could back up because it is they way they are thinking is why in football (American Football) have their been more white dominating quarterbacks but more dominating black wide receivers and half backs. 

could it be because the WR HB position is based more on athleticism as opposed to thinking on your feet and strategy like the QB position is?

of course their are always those that are acceptions to the rules. 

Off the top of your head name a black guy that is a top BJJ practitioner in the ufc then think of Brazilians. Think of the best strategist in the ufc Randy and he is white. Think of the top BJJ practitioners Babalu gracie big nog Brazilians. The blacks normaly are the heavy hitters and the good wrestlers. the problem athletasism alone is not enough to get you to dominate the ufc


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Simple its a money issue, on average blacks are poorer than whites and although training may not be hugely expensive, GOOD training is, I'd also like to point out the fact that in the world many of the countries influenced by the main stream US media (UK, Canada) are predominatly white while places like Africa that are predominatly black are considerably poorer and the people are more likely to be concerned with eating than watching the UFC.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Here's an idea maybe mma is a more a represenative of America's population. Black only make up about 12% of the population in the US. Also those who say that most USA sports are dominate by blacks are wrong. Blacks are a very small minority in baseball. The NFL is close to being even between blacks and whites. The NBA is the only example of a sport that has a larger majority of black athletes. 

Also the statements of blacks being poorer is not only racist but wrong. There are than 5 times as many whites living below the poverty line in the USA, and African Americans have the highest percentage of class change in America (lower to middle class, middle to upper, etc). 

One thing I will say about culture is that boxing is a huge part of certain cultures. Great fighters such as Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali have been elevated beyond sports heroes to legendary status. Also in many Latino countries, kids are started boxing at a young age, similar to the way kids in America play little league or pee wee football. It is not surprising then that there are so many great boxers from Latin American countries. It is also not surprising that there are so many great Brazilian BJJ practitioners.


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

foolish post from someone who obviously doesnt pay attention to society


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## Royce (Nov 10, 2008)

well i guess training costs more than what i tought..but still - do you really think all those up and comeing guys come from rich backrounds ? 
i think maybe some fighters find a trainer that belives in them and let them train for free as an investment.could this be right? 

some more toughts :

1.i think role-models might have something to do with it.up untill a year or so ago <when rampage and rashad got big in the UFC> there were no successful black amrican fighters in the UFC.now that this changed i think we will probabllly see some more young guys comeing in trying to follow their footsteps.a black guy thats currentlly wrestling in college is more likely to identify with rashad then with matt huges or tank aboot..and think to himself " i could do that too..".

2.someone mentioned that brazilians excel in MMA becuase it was invented there..but i dont think thats actually true.Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is obviouslly from brazil,but none of the other disciplines are <boxing,Muay Thai,wrestling..>.
so its still a bit of a mystery for me why is MMA so popular in brazil of all places.
i think the reason there are such great brazilian fights is partly because brazil can be a very tough place to grow up in..so if one wants to elevate himself he must be tough and focused.
also the brazilian training teams seem very close and supportive of one another and since they have TOP level guys in every discipline it might be a great breeding ground for future champions.


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## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

Plenty of Black fighters, but what about on the swim team?


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## Captain Stupid (Feb 3, 2008)

Why is eveyone quoting the financial cost of training in MMA? I mean the top boxers in the world for years have been afro american boxers. Am i to assue that they never pay gyn fees?:dunno:

My own theory (and i could be VERY wrong about this) is that there are two reasons...

1) Generally speaking it takes a LOT of training and discipline, countless hours in the gym. To build that kind of discipline, students have usually been involved in another martial art for years on end and then switched over to MMA. Culturally speaking, caucasians seem to be more likely to spend gruelling hours wrestling on the ground where as afro americans seem to want to bang a bit more...

2) Physically speaking afro americans no doubt have a greater power to weight ratio when it comes to explosiveness. I wonder though if they tend to gas a lot quicker because of this. In boxing or wrestling it probably doesn't matter AS MUCH, but in MMA where we transition from wrestling to stand up and vice versa, that conditioning is a big, if not the biggest factor...

Please excuse me if my post makes no sense as i've had a bit much to drink!


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

cabby said:


> Plenty of Black fighters, but what about on the swim team?


Now THAT is the real question! :thumb02:​


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## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

Captain Stupid said:


> Please excuse me if my post makes no sense as i've had a bit much to drink!


I hope you don't live in the midwest my friend its 8:30 AM


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## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

Royce said:


> 2.someone mentioned that brazilians excel in MMA becuase it was invented there..but i dont think thats actually true.Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is obviouslly from brazil,but none of the other disciplines are <boxing,Muay Thai,wrestling..>.
> so its still a bit of a mystery for me why is MMA so popular in brazil of all places.


Vale Tudo.

I'm not sure if this is just getting lost in translation but in England the term "blacks" when talking about about black people would be considered quite racist TBH, as would whites I suppose.

Anyway, back to the point, I think the reason that there aren't more black people in the top tiers of MMA can be partly due to how you can't get by simply on athleticism alone like in some sports and it is still a very grassroots sport. 

The best athletes are usually black and the best athletes are going to go into football or boxing or athletics at a young age because they're more accesible and there are more oppurunities to make a good living from them than MMA at this time.


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

ID06 said:


> I've just never met a black person that was good at BJJ, of course there are exceptions but they seem like they just want to hit someone, the same could be said about some of the ******** that come in to our gym.














cabby said:


> Plenty of Black fighters, but what about on the swim team?


People of African decent tend to have denser bones, so they don't make as good swimmers.


MMA is a relatively new sport. Boxing was white dominated when it started out, as was football (american and real), running, basketball, etc.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Here's an idea maybe mma is a more a represenative of America's population. Black only make up about 12% of the population in the US. Also those who say that most USA sports are dominate by blacks are wrong. Blacks are a very small minority in baseball. The NFL is close to being even between blacks and whites. The NBA is the only example of a sport that has a larger majority of black athletes.


He was talking about athletic players. The NBA is purely athletes. Hence dominated by african-americans. The NFL is a mix of athletes and players. Most of the white players play in non-atheltic positions. Not all, but certainly most. You just don't see too many dominant WR's, RB's, CB's, Safties, and DE's that are white because they aren't as athleticly gifted in most instances.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

To be honest, I'd like to see more Albino people in sports.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

CornbreadBB said:


> To be honest, I'd like to see more Albino people in sports.


They can't compete because of the electrical charges and supernatural phenomena. Some still can't control them. It really is tragic.


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

CornbreadBB said:


> To be honest, I'd like to see more Albino people in sports.


Maybe Rampage Jnr will follow in his dad's footsteps.








p.s. go to the myspace page this is from and lol at the comment at the bottom - http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...endID=15847988&albumID=374138&imageID=1160861


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Bazza89 said:


> Vale Tudo.
> 
> *I'm not sure if this is just getting lost in translation but in England the term "blacks" when talking about about black people would be considered quite racist TBH, as would whites I suppose.*
> 
> ...


Youre right, but it really pisses me off! Someone has dark skin, we refer to them as black. Its not racist, its an observation. This country is far too PC.

On the same note, companies have to employ a certain amount of ethnic minorities, which means there is also POSITIVE discrimination toward certain ethnic groups. This, however, gets overlooked, and nobody wants to say anything incase someone takes offence. Its madness. But i digress. . .

I personally think its to do with what you are exposed to in your life. If you havent heard of mma, or you dont really know what it is, youre not going to want to do it. Its not like black people dont like violence as much as any other race. Its not that theyre lazy. Its not that they just like to punch people. For every black person you labeled with the aforementioned defects, i could find you just as many white people with the same traits.

Its to do with social circles and social acceptance. African tribes have allsorts of contact and brutal sports and customs. Stick fighting for example. Why are there no/comparitavely little white stick fighters? Its because we're not exposed to it. Its not recognised in our social circles and societies, so it passes us by.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

XitUp said:


> p.s. go to the myspace page this is from and lol at the comment at the bottom - http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...endID=15847988&albumID=374138&imageID=1160861


Bahahaha, for reals.


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

The Lone Wolf said:


> Youre right, but it really pisses me off! Someone has dark skin, we refer to them as black. Its not racist, its an observation. This country is far too PC.


But most of the time they are not black.









Black.









Kinda light brown.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

well sure, and white people arent "white" its just a generalised description. Nothing offensive about it in the slightest. And surely something has to be offensive to be racist? It just bugs me that people can be so sensitive about petty things. Theres bigger obstacles in life than noises that spray from peoples mouths.


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

True, plus it makes it a lot easier for the people who _are_ racist to say "oh, you're just being PC".


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

Americans are weird.


In Trinidad we have kickboxers, Krav Maga practicioners, international football, rubgy, cricket and karate fighters

of:

African descent

Indian descent

Afro-Hindu descent

Chinese descent

Syrian descent

Portuguese descent


Only in America (I have lived in 5 countries) have I heard statements like "Black people dont play _______ sport" and "I never see _________ ethnic group do...."


sometimes I think people have selective vision


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Sekou said:


> Americans are stinky.
> 
> 
> In Trinidad we have kickboxers, Krav Maga practicioners, international football, rubgy, cricket and jelly fighters
> ...


:thumb02:


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

The Lone Wolf said:


> :thumb02:



:laugh:


that was funny......


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## SlaveTrade (Apr 27, 2007)

Marvin Eastman is proof that this thread is irrelevant. 

Marvin Eastman is the man.


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

SlaveTrade said:


> Marvin Eastman is proof that this thread is irrelevant.
> 
> Marvin Eastman is the man.


watch out, you gonna have 17 people come in and say the Beastman is wack/lame/inferior fighter :laugh:


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## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

I don't care for much of this "blacks do this good, whites do that good" stuff. The only statistic of that kind is that no white man has as of yet ran 100m under 10 seconds. 

Apart from things like that, I really think culture is most important when it comes to various sports. The top Brazilian grapplers are not the best because they're freaks of nature, they're just born in a country where BJJ/Grappling is mainstream and a lot of good people are doing it. You can more easily access high level coaching. I mean look at Marcelo Garcia, he's not thet big, athletic, etc. He's just a god of technique.

This is also like saying that Russians are racially smarter than everyone else because they have so many good mathematicians and chess players and such, but we all know that is not the case. Math and Chess are just a part of the Russian intelligencia (meaning that if you're good at this, you are cnsidered smart and educated)

But yeah, America is generally very PC (although for a good reason). First it was "*****", then "Black" and now "African American". 

First off, I can only use this term when I talk about black people in OTHER countries. Second of all, everyone in Africa isn't ... well since I shouldn't say black and not African American I'll have to say "of darker skin colour". There are SOME white people in Africa. Why connect a continent with a skin colour? But back to my point: African-Norwegian, African-Russian, African-Italian... I don't think that sounds all that appealing. And what about the rather dark skin colour of the inhabitants of middle east? 

Then again, considering your history I can totally understand the need for a really politically correct term so I'm not gonna hold it against you  I'd probably do the same thing.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Russians ARE smarter than everybody else. They engineered Fedor, and shared their knowledge with Croatia and Byelorussia.


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## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

swpthleg said:


> Russians ARE smarter than everybody else. They engineered Fedor, and shared their knowledge with Croatia and Byelorussia.


how could I forget :thumb02: (Plus, their fifteen year olds from Saint Petersburg alone were kicking the 17-18 y.o. Swede's ass in the "Baltic way" mathematical competition. I felt humiliated, since I was on the swedish team).


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

Fedor is really good therefore he must of been produced in America.


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## Buckingham (Apr 8, 2007)

Im typing this and so far i only the first 3 pages, will proceed once I finish my post.

Here are the biggest reasons coming from a black man who lives in the biggest and one of the most famous black neighborhood(Bedstuy).

1. MMA is expensive. A friend and I both inquired about the Renzo bjj in Manhattan separately, and over the phone they wont even quote the price. My friend some how manage to find out and tho i can't remember the price he told me i do know it cost more than what most people can afford let alone the avg black population.

2. Culture (and it's not racist). MMA just isnt known that much, and it will take time. Black americans use to dominate baseball also, but now culturally and economically basketball and football surpass it. Now it's black people from latin america that love baseball(I will address that later).

3.Base fighting: In the black community in america, the most popular self defense is boxing. Now if you're a good boxer, will you get into MMA or Pro Boxing which everybody knows, and what your Father, Uncle, Mother etc watch? Not to mention if you're a top boxer it pays way more. It seem most white americans start off with wrestling, and wrestling seem to be more suburban/rural. I've never meet anybody in person(black or white, etc) that wrestled in high school in NYC(the biggest and top city in this land). I know people from Long island, upstate NY and NJ but in the city itself, NOPE. I was shocked when I learned that Rampage wrestled in HS/College. Hell, its hard to get funding for HS basketball and it's the most popular sport in the city and the black community(maybe football in the south)

4. A lot of people seem to think that unless you look like Anderson Silva(dark skin), then you're not a black Brazilian. You don't have to be Darkskin to be a black brazilian or black latino/hispanic. The same way here in the states we have light skin blacks, latin/south america have light skin Blacks.


It's not because MMA is too hard, boring, or sissy-ish(?), just a combo of exposure, base combat, and economics. I look forward to reading the rest of the comments.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

your claim that blacks are "genetically suited" to sports is arguably racist. You may not mean it in a nasty way, but have you actually got studies that demonstrate that, or do you just look at sports and say "gosh black people sure win most of the athletically inclined sports, so they must be better athletes, genetically"? By that logic, since whites dominate the upper echelons of 1st world government and major corporate infrastructures, one could assume whites are smarter or more business-competent- a conclusion similarly not proven via trials or studies and obviously subject to suspicion of racial bias.

I think its obvious that these discrepancies are due to social factors. Whites still dominate business and government thanks to both internalized racism and the recent history of horrible oppression of blacks in white culture. Sport though (especially sports like football and basketball, which are wildly popular and don't require a major investment of funds to practice), is something that even a poor disenfranchised black kid whose culture and background isn't particularly conducive to college, technical, or business aspirations, who has never had the opportunities growing up to even recognize the worth in learning such things much less have them taught from a young age, can still succeed on a wealthy, national level. Is it any wonder blacks tend to excel at sports, in that light?


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

The MMA gods are racist. that is all.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Black people aren't any better or worse at MMA than anyone else. They're just not over-represented in the sport, as they are in some others.
I honestly down care what race or background dudes have, as long as they can fight.


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## Buckingham (Apr 8, 2007)

americanfighter said:


> You cant tast the differances in the M&M's !!!!:confused05: :confused05: :confused05:
> 
> But seriously its not the skin color that makes people think that way but the culture that they grew up in. That is what makes all the difference in the world.
> 
> ...


It's because black athletes were told from a young age to stop playing QB and to become a rb or some other position. That is starting to change and you will see more black QB's in the future. At one point it was believed that black people couldn't play any position, or how about the old belief that if you "hit a black player in the mouth, he will give up".




Captain Stupid said:


> Why is eveyone quoting the financial cost of training in MMA? I mean the top boxers in the world for years have been afro american boxers. Am i to assue that they never pay gyn fees?:dunno:
> 
> My own theory (and i could be VERY wrong about this) is that there are two reasons...
> 
> ...


Boxing is much cheaper and there's tradition. If your father, uncle, brothers, neighbor, etc box then most likely you will be taught or introduced by them. Also when you show talent in boxing(which is much easier to spot since it's a much older sport), you tend to be trained for free.

1. Bangers are Bangers regardless. There might be a case that since boxing is so popular in the black community(U.S), more black people think they can bang when they talents probably lie in a disciplen they dont know(wrestling, bjj, judo, etc).


2. I don't want to be too scientific but, Black athletes are well codition in other sports, Basketball, Football, Marratons etc. Im sure gassing isn't a issue lol.


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

Buckingham said:


> It's because black athletes were told from a young age to stop playing QB and to become a rb or some other position. That is starting to change and you will see more black QB's in the future. At one point it was believed that black people couldn't play any position, or how about the old belief that if you "hit a black player in the mouth, he will give up".
> 
> 
> Boxing is much cheaper and there's tradition. If your father, uncle, brothers, neighbor, etc box then most likely you will be taught or introduced by them. Also when you show talent in boxing(which is much easier to spot since it's a much older sport), you tend to be trained for free.
> ...


I agree with your posts on the issue of a lot of black athletes just dont have the fighting base or it is in boxing which IMO is the hardest to translate into an mma career because the ground is so foreign and you have to add kicks, knees, elbows to your stand up. As more black kids get into wrestling, bjj, at a younger age(which is happening) it will even itself out.


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## Royce (Nov 10, 2008)

HexRei said:


> your claim that blacks are "genetically suited" to sports is arguably racist. You may not mean it in a nasty way, but have you actually got studies that demonstrate that, or do you just look at sports and say "gosh black people sure win most of the athletically inclined sports, so they must be better athletes, genetically"? By that logic, since whites dominate the upper echelons of 1st world government and major corporate infrastructures, one could assume whites are smarter or more business-competent- a conclusion similarly not proven via trials or studies and obviously subject to suspicion of racial bias.


sorry but there is nothing racist about it.
some of you guys dont seem to understand the concept of racism.
u seem to think that if something is said about a difference between races - than its automaticlly racsit.thats just wrong and makes no sense.
there are all kind of differences..physical cultural..social.
those differences doesnt change the fact that all human are equal and should be treated as such.

back to subject : there are many scientific studies that show that blacks have a diffrent muscle structure types in some areas of the body..go ask any sports sciencetist.
did u really think its just a coincidence that there hasnt been a white man in the finals of the 100 M race in 20 years?

saying blacks are genetically sutted to excel in some sports isnt more racist than saying that japanese people are short.its a fact.some can be high..but in general,average..they are a short people.
when u get too much politically correctness u make it impossible to have any meaningful discussion..thats my opinion.

i agree with most of the rest.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

the "blacks are this" and "blacks are that" make me nervous reading this post. 

not sure... but im going to assume this is not meant in a racist fashion.

Well I think anderson silva is black right? a lot of people would argue hes the best pound for pound fighter in the world. 

but to list some others off the top of my head:
din thomas
melvin guillard
kevin randleman
bob sapp
anthony johnson


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Royce said:


> back to subject : there are many scientific studies that show that blacks have a diffrent muscle structure types in some areas of the body..go ask any sports sciencetist.
> did u really think its just a coincidence that there hasnt been a white man in the finals of the 100 M race in 20 years?


really? can you give me a link to these studies? one or two of them, perhaps? I would assume that at least an abstract of such an important study must exist on the internet. One that shows that "blacks have a different muscle structure types in some area of the body." As opposed to whites, arabs, natives, etc, I guess?



> saying blacks are genetically sutted to excel in some sports isnt more racist than saying that japanese people are short.its a fact.some can be high..but in general,average..they are a short people.
> when u get too much politically correctness u make it impossible to have any meaningful discussion..thats my opinion.


It's not a matter of political correctness to ask for studies demonstrating a physical phenomonen you are asserting exists and in fact predicating your argument upon. There are numerous studies showing that asians as a general ethnicity are shorter the blacks, caucasians, etc. Where are the studies supporting your claims?


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

Royce said:


> saying blacks are genetically sutted to excel in some sports isnt more racist than saying that japanese people are short.


Right, just like saying Native Americans are alcoholics and Asians are good at math isn't racist either! This is all scientific knowledge gentlemen! :confused05:

Even if you think it's a postive one, attributing a chracteristic to a whole group of people based on some members in that group is racist.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

It's not racist, at least, the idea isn't. Fast twitch muscle fibers are more common among some groups of blacks. Attributing something to a group solely based on race, doesn't have to mean racism. In this case though, i'd definitely say he's wrong.


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## Buckingham (Apr 8, 2007)

GMW said:


> It's not racist, at least, the idea isn't. Fast twitch muscle fibers are more common among some groups of blacks. Attributing something to a group solely based on race, doesn't have to mean racism. In this case though, i'd definitely say he's wrong.


Yea i spoke with my friend a few weeks ago and we were talking about fast twitch muscles. He was told he have a certain type and that he would out run some track guy a short distance, but then the track runner would pull off because his muscle type was a combination. I know it's said that West Africans(most Black people in the americas) tend to have more fast twitch, and E. Africans tend to be built more for endurance. You know facts change every other day it seems.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

so that means if i say "black guys have big penis'" then i am racist?

but it sounds so positive


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

It doesn't matter whether it is positive or not. When you label an entire race of people, it's racist. I would also like to read the studies that have been talked about. Most of the racial "studies" pertaining to athletics have been discredited. Also I'm really getting tired of the economics discussion. They insinuation is that blacks are poor and whites aren't. When the truth is that there are five times as many whites living below the poverty line in this country as blacks. As far as the cost of boxing, I stopped boxing in 2001. At that time gym membership fees were around $30 (that doesn't include equipment) a month. The time is what costs more. 3 hours a day plus cardio makes it so it's hard to find an accommodating work schedule.


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Wow..you must have never trained. And you try adding $400/month at the novice stage to an already tapped budget.


Amen, and that could be just a couple of diciplines if not just one


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

First of all, are you talking about black americans or just people darker complection?

To you, is Anderson Silva a black guy... and if so, is Wanderlei Silva a black guy? Or are you just talking about the likes of Quinton Jackson?

Post like these seem to show up every few months or so, and no offence at all to the poster, but there just seem pointless to me. 

At the risk of sounding like an after school special, they're all athletes, who cares what their ethnicity is. I can understand supporting someone from you country, but their skin tone seems irrelevant to me.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

i think its all about if mma is popular in some counrty. that there isnt that many black greats in mma will change as the sport gets more out there. 

black people had by far the best boxers ( in the us ) and i think they will make their mark on mma as well.

i think the reason why many of them do so well in sports ( and i could be wrong ) is that for many that is the only way to make it great as they have to go to shitty schools etc


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## Royce (Nov 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted by Royce
> saying blacks are genetically sutted to excel in some sports isnt more racist than saying that japanese people are short.





CornbreadBB said:


> Right, just like saying Native Americans are alcoholics and Asians are good at math isn't racist either! This is all scientific knowledge gentlemen! :confused05:
> 
> Even if you think it's a postive one, attributing a chracteristic to a whole group of people based on some members in that group is racist.



my god...do u really think saying japanese people are short is racist ? :confused05:...wow.i give up.i cant handle with this logic.lets agree to disagree.

<and BTW - if there is a scientific study that shows and explains why asians have a brain that handels math better..than pointing that out will not be racsict either..i doubt there is one>.

hexrei : like i said - if u dont believe me and the others here that mentioned it..u can look the studies up or ask a professional..im not going to do the homework for u.<im not a geneticist so its not like i have them in hand>.

in any case i think its a good thing that people are sensitive to un-racist speech,but u should learn to pick the right cases to jump on..otherwise you're just geting to the rediculess PC realm.<like..japanese people are short = racist >.


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## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

Racist or not. I can say people who start threads about black people being very athletic are 50% more likely to engage in homosexual sex than people who don't. 

I imagine it's just about what people like. Like most Americans like hard rock or metal whereas Europeans like Indie and dance music.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

name goes here said:


> I imagine it's just about what people like. Like most Americans like hard rock or metal whereas Europeans like Indie and dance music.


whoa !! 

i can only speak for norway but here its all about metall. hiphop and rap n stuff is more for the teenagers. you NEVER find a 25 + y-o in norway stating that his favourite musician is snoop dog or eminem etc


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

CornbreadBB said:


> I'm sorry guys, but I am just not buying it. It could be my wishful way of thinking, but I honestly don't think skin color changes the way one thinks any more than M&M color changes the way an M&M tastes. I know it may seem silly, but can it possibly be our culture that dictates what someone choses to do? For all I know, you guys may be right, but I chose to believe otherwise.


Saved me from typing it....ahhh who am I kidding, I nered to ad my 2 cents.

You can look individual sports teams and see one be nearly all white and one be nearly all black, even in sports where 1 race is more common. 

Take football last weekend; it was pitsburg vs. new england. Are white people from new england better than black people from new england, or did there just happen to be, through socio-economic factors, more white people who were able to and had the talent to be pro football players. And you can do the reverse for pitsburg.

Is there a physical reason why there are way, way more white people playing hockey than black people? obviously not! Anyone who meets the physical requirements can excell at a sport whether it be hockey, football, or poker(okay, maybe poker isn't a sport, but you catch my drift).

The difference is where you grew up, what you were pushed into doing, what is popular at the time...social factors! It's all social factors! What were their parents watching? What did they grow up watching on tv? Was it football? hockey? Chances are they are going to pick up a football and play st some point if that was their dads faverite sport.

Let's use a wild, crazy, completely made up example that couldn't possibly happen in the real world. Let's pretend that as a percentage ratio there are alot more black people that can't afford to go to college. Let's pretend that if they do really well at a sport they may be able to get a scholarship and may be able to play the sport professionally, thus completely altering their economic situation. Now let's pretend for a second that somehow there are, on average, less white people who can't afford college. They like sports, but realize that the chances of going pro are slim and since daddy can afford good schooling, perhaps working really hard at math would be a better option. I know, it sounds impossible, but just pretend. This is by no means to be taken as the truth, but for an INDIVIDUAL CITY this could be a factor in how many people of any social or economic demograhpic you see in one sport. Have a city full of Russian immigrants? Perhaps you might end up with a few great hockey players. Have a city full of Canadians (like in Canada, for example? same deal. A city with a huge little Italy? Chances are a bit higher than you might have some good soccer players (notice i said a bit higher, no gaurentees!). 

Think of the whole thing like a deck of cards. Each suit is like a race. Let's say for the last 100 years diamonds have been playing alot of hockey (diamonds = canada). I built a island for 10/52 cards in a deck, and I plan to populate that island by shuffling the deck and randomly dropping 10 cards in. If i happened to get 6 diamonds, my chances are higher that one person in there might like, play, and excell at hockey. 

Anyways, that's my two cents. I think all sports worldwide have a healthy mix of all races excelling at every sport. I think you see less/more based purely on socio-economic factors. 

Once MMA has been mainstream for as long as hockey, football, boxing, and soccer, things will start to balance out based where people live and who is interested.


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## wallysworld191 (Mar 28, 2007)

Royce said:


> i was wondering about this and would like to hear what u think.
> 
> the way i see it - blacks are dominating many sports that requires great athletiscism such as : basketball,football, athletics and good old boxing.blacks are a bit better genetically suited to excel in those fields.
> 
> ...


black people represent less than 30 percent of fighters...and are greater than 30 percent of the high level fighters...so uh your wrong...


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Black people don't really do martial arts as much as others? Idk


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## mmawrestler (May 18, 2008)

Thats kinda a dumb post there are alot of great black fighters

Anderson Silva
Quinton Jackson
Asswerio Silva
Shonie Carter
Houston alexander
Sokky
Congo
Guiarrd
Manhoef

There tons


Its not mainstream in black culture cause the ufc is largley aimed toward i white audience with there nu-metal theme music ect.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Royce said:


> my god...do u really think saying japanese people are short is racist ? :confused05:...wow.i give up.i cant handle with this logic.lets agree to disagree.
> 
> <and BTW - if there is a scientific study that shows and explains why asians have a brain that handels math better..than pointing that out will not be racsict either..i doubt there is one>.
> 
> ...


Maybe you should look up the studies, since most of them that related race to athletic prowess have been discredited. While a person can do statistics of how many people of African descent are in certain sports, to say that African Americans are more gifted athletically isn't science. There are too many variables to say to pick one and determine a conclusion based on it. Oh and all Japanese people aren't short either.


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