# Rumor Overeem Out Of UFC 141 Possible Failed Drug Test



## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

Word going around twitter right now.. Sorry dont have a source right now.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

That would suuuuuuuuuuuuuck. 

If it's drug test related, and Dana is left without a main event so close to the PPV, I could see him canning Overeem. PRAYING this isn't true!


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## Swiss (Jul 19, 2011)

They were still plugging the fight at the end of the programme tonight. Would be an odd move if he'd had a positive test.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Dana said at the presser that he hasn't heard anything about Overeem and the UFC are usually the first to know, even before the Media. Maybe he just needs more information, but I can see Frank Mir getting in there, he already said he would if Overeem couldn't do it.


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

Something is cracking off..


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Why would he be tested now?


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

They will know more after that thing on Monday I guess:



> Before the UFC 140 post-fight press conference a rumor started to circulate among media that the UFC was about to announce that Alistair Overeem was out of his UFC 141 main event with Brock Lesnar. The popular rumor was that Frank Mir, on the strength of his arm breaking win over Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, would replace Overeem for a rubber match with Lesnar.
> 
> While Dana White was quick to shoot down the rumors, asking where they come from, the rumors did persist. And White denying that the fight was in jeopardy doesn't mean that there aren't issues. White wouldn't talk about this in public if things weren't clear one way or the other. Then again, it could all be a rumor and mean nothing.
> 
> ...


http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/12/11/2627454/alistair-overeem-ufc-141-brock-lesnar-drug-test-rumor


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

please no please no please no


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Never heard of that prefight drug test before.
Is that common?


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

AmdM said:


> Never heard of that prefight drug test before.
> Is that common?


Actually there was an article about 6 months ago or so where the NSAC said they recently had an influx of money and wanted to start random drug testing, or at least a standard X weeks out pre-fight. Could be they started this already.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Guess good ol Doughboy Roy Nelson might have to fill in...hahahahah!


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

AmdM said:


> Never heard of that prefight drug test before.
> Is that common?


Isn't prefight testing what got Marquardt in trouble with his TRT treatments?


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Actually I take Roy Nelson back...it's Fedor. :thumb02:


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

No_Mercy said:


> Actually I take Roy Nelson back...it's Fedor. :thumb02:


I'd dig that!


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

I'd love to see random drug testing. Not sure what is going on with Overeem until the facts are here, but drug testing is great.


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

Mir already said he would step in at the presser when the rumors started with Overreem being injured. Then something was whispered to Dana and he seemed pissed.

Something is going down, that's for sure.


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## VikingKing (Dec 3, 2011)

Wow.Never a boring moment in MMA! So Overeem got caught in a test before he was finished with his steroid cyclus?;D:thumb02:

Anyhow.I really hope this is not the case..cus this is a dream matchup,please no!

And PLEASE NO for Mir to step in.Last thing i have any interest in whatsoever is to se another one sided ragdoll beating..


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## VikingKing (Dec 3, 2011)

No_Mercy said:


> Actually I take Roy Nelson back...it's Fedor. :thumb02:


Call me nuts but i would rather see Nelson than Mir against Brock


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

RedRocket44 said:


> Mir already said he would step in at the presser when the rumors started with Overreem being injured. Then something was whispered to Dana and he seemed pissed.
> 
> Something is going down, that's for sure.


Mir CANNOT step in - it's almost mandatory that you get 30 days without contact from the athletic commission after every fight - and Mir took a few shot, so that's guaranteed


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

Budhisten said:


> Mir CANNOT step in - it's almost mandatory that you get 30 days without contact from the athletic commission after every fight - and Mir took a few shot, so that's guaranteed


yes but don't those get changed all the time?

I'm pretty sure with an examination you can get clearance before the medical suspension expires.

Not sure if it would be smart to fight Brock with only 3 weeks of training anyways. He's a different beast than Big Nog - and Mir had a tough time in both fights. He was getting smashed in the first fight before he got Brocks leg, and in the second fight he just got smashed.


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## VikingKing (Dec 3, 2011)

Budhisten said:


> Mir CANNOT step in - it's almost mandatory that you get 30 days without contact from the athletic commission after every fight - and Mir took a few shot, so that's guaranteed


Well then we can most likley rule out Mir.Then who can step in? Cheick Kong,Matt Mitrione,Pat Barry OR Roy Nelson?


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

VikingKing said:


> Well then we can most likley rule out Mir.Then who can step in? Cheick Kong,Matt Mitrione,Pat Barry OR Roy Nelson?


Out of those Kongo is probably the best choice - still, I'm hoping this turns out to be bogus


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Tito jumped in to fight Rashad 2 weeks after fighting Bader.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

AmdM said:


> Tito jumped in to fight Rashad 2 weeks after fighting Bader.


He didn't take any damage in that fight.

Ref almost stopped this one because Mir was face-first on the floor getting punched  Big difference


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Yeah, perhaps a doctor can give him clearance, idrk.

Anyway, what time is it in Denmark 7:20 am?
I get it, i can't sleep also...


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

AmdM said:


> Yeah, perhaps a doctor can give him clearance, idrk.
> 
> Anyway, what time is it in Denmark 7:20 am?
> I get it, i can't sleep also...


Yup, you're right on the money... 7.20am 

Can't sleep, the card gave me a little adrenaline dump and it really ruins my sleep  And I've been hella busy posting today, more than a 100 posts I think, easily

So I'll try giving it a shot again now, hopefully this time it happens


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## HorsepoweR (Jun 1, 2007)

I hope this isn't true. I will be pissed if I don't get to see Brock's face get SMASHED in


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

The card gave a LOT of adrenaline, but it went all down the drain in just a moment, you know...that moment.
I don't wanna go to bed, i'm afraid that thing to pop in my mind.
Off to watch Merlin s04e11 now (6:30am).
That's how afraid i am of going to bed. :dunno:


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## paulfromtulsa (Jan 13, 2007)

Could Vera step in? He did say he wanted to be light heavyweight and heavyweight champ at the same time


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## VikingKing (Dec 3, 2011)

Budhisten said:


> Yup, you're right on the money... 7.20am
> 
> Can't sleep, the card gave me a little adrenaline dump and it really ruins my sleep  And I've been hella busy posting today, more than a 100 posts I think, easily
> 
> So I'll try giving it a shot again now, hopefully this time it happens


I join the club from Norway aswell:thumb02:


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

VikingKing said:


> I join the club from Norway aswell:thumb02:


Insomniacs unite!


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Word on the street is that Joe Silva was telling Dana about the big Amir Khan upset (Weird time and place though)


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Budhisten said:


> Word on the street is that Joe Silva was telling Dana about the big Amir Khan upset (Weird time and place though)


Why would Dana care about that? :confused05:

I hope this Overeem crap isn't true but have a feeling it is. Usually when they don't come out and deny it immediately it's because there's something going on. Like Sonnen, Mardquart and a few other instances.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Budhisten said:


> Word on the street is that Joe Silva was telling Dana about the big Amir Khan upset (Weird time and place though)


Khan lost? Thats disappointing if he did. He was one of a couple guys that I thought might give Floyd problems.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Only way Dana cares that much about Khan losing is if he put on some solid bucks on the fight.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

> @JoshGrossESPN
> White denies Overeem is off the Lesnar card. But Alistair is on Mon.'s NSAC agenda. I've heard possibly in connection w/ prefight drug test.


Uh-oh


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Rob Emerson your time is now. . . . .


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

please let this rumor be false


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

I mean it's just so shocking these Overeem steroid rumors came out of nowhere. 

It really makes a guy wonder if anyone is honest out there anymore.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

I'd be surprised if 'reem was caught.

I wouldn't be surprised that he does 'roids.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

wow that would really suck if true, mir vs lesnar 3 would be interesting though. Mir has gotten a lot bigger from the last fight and should be ready.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Since when does the NSAC test weeks before fights? Hell, I'm not even sure if that is lawful.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Since when does the NSAC test weeks before fights? Hell, I'm not even sure if that is lawful.


maybe they have xmas break or a busy schedule during the holidays.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Brian Sandoval 
Governor 
STATE OF NEVADA 
DEPARTMENT OF BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY 
ATHLETIC COMMISSION 
T e r r y J o h n s o n 
Department Director 
Keith Kizer
Executive Director
Chairman: Raymond “Skip” Avansino Jr. 
Members: Francisco V. Aguilar, Bill Brady, T. J. Day, Pat Lundvall 
TO THE COMMISSION AND THE PUBLIC: 
A duly authorized telephone meeting of the Nevada State Athletic Commission will be held on Monday, December 12, 
2011, at 3:00 p.m. at the Grant Sawyer State Office Building, 555 East Washington Avenue, Suite 4401, Fourth 
Floor, Las Vegas, NV 89101. 
AGENDA 
1. Call to order. 
2. Roll Call. 
3. Approval of the minutes of the meeting of November 16, 2011, for possible action. 
4. Adoption of the agenda for this meeting, for possible action. 
5. Disclosures per NRS 281/281A. 
6. Public comment. 
OLD BUSINESS: 
1. Discussion regarding steroid and drug testing, including out-of-competition testing, and using independent 
sample collectors for in-competition testing. 
NEW BUSINESS: 
1. Request by boxer Laura Serrano for a license per NAC 467.017 (attained the age of 35 years or over, and has 
not competed in over 36 consecutive months), for possible action. (Record 17-4-2). 
2. Request by mixed martial artist Vladimir Matyushenko for a license per NAC 467.017 (attained the age of 35 
years or over), for possible action. (Record 26-5). 
3. Request by mixed martial artist Keith Jardine for a license per NAC 467.017 (attained the age of 35 years or 
over), for possible action. (Record 17-9-2). 
4. Request by mixed martial artist Alistair Overeem for a license, for possible action. (Record 35-11). 
5. Request by Forza, LLC dba Strikeforce for the date of January 7, 2012 to promote a professional mixed martial 
arts event at the Hard Rock Hotel in Las Vegas and to be shown on Showtime, for possible action. 
6. Request by Zuffa, LLC dba UFC for the date of February 4, 2012 to promote a professional mixed martial arts 
event at the Mandalay Bay Event Center and to be shown on Pay-Per-View, for possible action. 
7. Request by Golden Boy Promotions for the date of February 11, 2012 to promote a professional boxing event at 
the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas and to be shown on Showtime, for possible action. Agenda 12-12-11 
Page 2 
8. Selection of officials, and setting of fees, to work December 16, 2011 at the Mandalay Bay for the WBC Latino 
Middleweight title bout between Marco Antonio Rubio and Matt Vanda, for possible action. 
9. Selection of officials, and setting of fees, to work December 30, 2011 at the MGM Grand Garden Arena for the 
UFC special event bout between Brock Lesnar and Alistair Overeem, for possible action. 
10. Selection of officials, and setting of fees, to work January 7, 2012 at the Hard Rock Hotel for the Strikeforce 
Middleweight title bout between Luke Rockhold and Keith Jardine, for possible action. 
11. Request by Let’s Get It On Promotions, LLC for the date of January 20, 2012 to promote an amateur mixed 
martial arts event at Harrah’s Reno, for possible action. 
12. Request by Las Vegas MMA for the date of February 3, 2012 to promote an amateur mixed martial arts event 
at Las Vegas Hilton, for possible action. 
13. Request by Bruno’s Boxing Club for a grant from NRS 467.108 for travel to Las Vegas to participate in the 
Silver Gloves State Tournament at Barry’s Boxing Center on November 19-20, 2011 for 1 boxer and 2 coaches 
for per diem of $120, hotel expenses of $268.78, and mileage reimbursement of $259, total of $647.78, for 
possible action.
14. Request by Henderson PAL a grant from NRS 467.108 for travel to Mesa, AZ to participate in the 36
th
Annual 
Gene Lewis Tournament on November 10-12, 2011 for 3 boxers and 1 coach for per diem of $240, hotel 
expenses of $414, car rental of $280.13 and fuel reimbursement of $126.42, total of $1,060.55, for possible 
action.
15. Request by Johnny Tocco’s Amateur Boxing Club for a grant from NRS 467.108 for travel to Mesa, AZ to 
participate in the 36
th
Annual Gene Lewis Tournament on November 10-12, 2011 for 7 boxers and 3 coaches 
for per diem of $600, hotel expenses of $896.48, 15-passenger van rental of $508.59 and fuel reimbursement 
of $210.02, total of $2,215.09, for possible action.
16. Request by Richard Steele Boxing Club for a grant from NRS 467.108 for travel to Mesa, AZ to participate in 
the 36
th
Annual Gene Lewis Tournament on November 10-12, 2011 for 1 boxer and 1 coach for per diem of 
$120, hotel expenses of $211.86, and fuel reimbursement of $149, total of $480.86, for possible action.
17. Request by Reno Jets Amateur Boxing Club for a grant from NRS 467.108 for travel to Las Vegas to participate 
in the Silver Gloves State Tournament at Barry’s Boxing Center on November 19-20, 2011 for 2 boxers, 1 
coach, and 1 chaperone for per diem of $240, hotel expenses of $483.48, and mileage reimbursement of 
$223.75, total of $947.23, for possible action.
18. Appointment of arbitrator for hearing between of boxer Juan Heraldez and manager Pat Barry, for possible 
action.
19. Request for temporary suspension against mixed martial artist Shawn Fitzsimmons, for possible action.
20. Request for temporary suspension against boxer Joel Casamayor, for possible action.
21. Re-licensing of ring officials for calendar year 2012, for possible action. 
PUBLIC COMMENT: 
CHAIRMAN’S REPORT: 
MATTERS FOR FUTURE AGENDAS: 

ADJOURNMENT: For possible action. Agenda 12-12-11 
Page 3 
Note: We are pleased to make reasonable accommodations for members of the public who are disabled and wish to 
attend the meeting. If special arrangements are necessary, please email [email protected], fax your request to 
702-486-2577 or notify 702-486-2575 as soon as possible. 
Items may be taken out of order. The Commission may combine two or more agenda items for 
consideration. The Commission may remove an item from the agenda or delay discussion relating to an 
item on the agenda at any time. 
Prior to the commencement and conclusion of a contested case or a quasi judicial proceeding that may 
affect the due process rights of an individual, the Commission may refuse to consider public comment. 
See NRS 233B.126. 
THIS AGENDA HAS BEEN POSTED AT THE FOLLOWING LOCATIONS: 

Posted on web site: boxing.nv.gov 
1. Bradley Building 2501 East Sahara Ave. Las Vegas, NV 89104 
2. Department of Parks & Recreation 601 East Sunset Road Las Vegas, NV 89120 
3. Grant Sawyer Office Building 555 East Washington Ave. Las Vegas, NV 89101 
4. Nevada State Athletic Commission 555 E Washington Ave, Suite 3200 Las Vegas, NV 89101


http://boxing.nv.gov/Agenda/12-12-11AG.pdf

Alistair is going to the NSAC to follow protocol in regards to getting licensed. It's not a drugs test.


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## METALLICA_RULES (Feb 12, 2011)

This is just a joke right?


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## Crystalarts (Jan 31, 2011)

marcthegame said:


> wow that would really suck if true, mir vs lesnar 3 would be interesting though. Mir has gotten a lot bigger from the last fight and should be ready.


no, he was big in the last Lesnar fight... and Carwin fight.... cause he thought it would help. it didnt. He was small in the first Lesnar fight.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Crystalarts said:


> no, he was big in the last Lesnar fight... and Carwin fight.... cause he thought it would help. it didnt. He was small in the first Lesnar fight.


Nope. After he lost to lesnar is when he decided to bulk up. Then on his journey back to Lesnar he ran in to Shane Carwin who knocked him silly. Then Frank Mir went on to say it was a mistake to put on weight and that he does better being a slimmer fighter. Seems like he decided to keep the weight anyway though.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Crystalarts said:


> no, he was big in the last Lesnar fight... and Carwin fight.... cause he thought it would help. it didnt. He was small in the first Lesnar fight.


for the rematch with lesnar at 100 he was 245...last night he was at 260.


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## Crystalarts (Jan 31, 2011)

okay..


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Crystalarts said:


> okay..


Admit you are wrong and ask for my forgiveness. You wont get it but you should still ask.. its the polite thing to do.


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## Crystalarts (Jan 31, 2011)

okay is an admission.... which is more than you will get from most other members on here.


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## Carlitoz3 (Oct 9, 2009)

Hell No! :0


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

hahahahhaha, karma mother fcuker, hope this proves to be true, cheating back stabbing mother fcuker, so the respect for the achivments of the Overoid drops from "self proclaimed legend" to zero.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Calm down this is till 100% just a rumor. I am doubting more and more that it is true. Overeem has been tested many times before and has always come up clean. I doubt he fucked up now. Also it clearly states he is on the NSAC agenda for a license, not a drug test.

Just a rumor. Overeem will smash Brocks face and make him look like an amateur come Dec 30.


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

Also its not like either of the guys is clean, look at them.
Would be sad tho if Overeem fucked up his cycle and cant fight Brock.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Overeem is ducking Lesnar


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> hahahahhaha, karma mother fcuker, hope this proves to be true, cheating back stabbing mother fcuker, so the respect for the achivments of the Overoid drops from "self proclaimed legend" to zero.


Weren't/Aren't you the former Strikeforce slobber?

Weren't you an Overeem fan who said he was the #1 HW in the world before he even beat a legit HW...which he still hasn't. Because he really lost to Werdum?

I could have swore that was the case.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Weren't/Aren't you the former Strikeforce slobber?
> 
> Weren't you an Overeem fan who said he was the #1 HW in the world before he even beat a legit HW...which he still hasn't. Because he really lost to Werdum?
> 
> I could have swore that was the case.


Killer turned his back on Overeem when he left Golden Glory and badmouthed the people there. He is now a big Lesnar fan


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

I hope he's just going there to get a license, I don't think I've ever wanted to see a fight more than Lesnar/Overeem, I'll be crushed if it doesn't happen.


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## BodyHead (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm pretty sure he is just going for his license. It'd be crazy though if he failed the drug test. But he didn't fail vs Werdum sooooo?


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Bas actually hinted towards this on a recent InsideMMA, but he was VERY discreet and quick with his comment. I hardly noticed it myself but I definitely took a mental note. 

I would not be surprized but I wouldn't be surprized if it's just a rumor either.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Would be really interesting to see what would be the UFC policy on this one, a guy failing a drug test coming into his UFC debute, can only think the only thing to do would be to cut them lose and never give them another chance.

But then you never can tell what the UFC policy will be since its clear they dont really have one when it comes to these things and judge the outcome on the popularity and relevance of the fighter.

Does not matter if this turns out to be true or not, the UFC should clearly state and standby a policy on this issue, ether they leave the punishment up to the commission and dont enforce any extra punishment themselves like they said was there stance with Sonnnen or they cut them straight up there and then never to return like they did with Marquardt, ether way it should even be a standard part of every fighters contract consistent to everyone what the consequences will be if they are caught using, because the current inconsistent way the UFC has handled this before in the past is an insult to fair play and good sportsmanship.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Weren't/Aren't you the former Strikeforce slobber?
> 
> Weren't you an Overeem fan who said he was the #1 HW in the world before he even beat a legit HW...which he still hasn't. Because he really lost to Werdum?
> 
> I could have swore that was the case.


How did he lose to Werdum?


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

Eh, Overeem is one of those guys that wont take a random drug screening if he knows he wont pass it. No truth to these rumors, best it'll be is that Overeem refused a drug screening by the NSAC.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Ahhh... I did not know that *the NSAC has a meeting scheduled for Overeem this week*..... that is not good news usually.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

SJ said:


> Ahhh... I did not know that *the NSAC has a meeting scheduled for Overeem this week*..... that is not good news usually.


page 5 in the spoiler:



> 4. Request by mixed martial artist Alistair Overeem for a license, for possible action. (Record 35-11).


Overeem is just applying for a license.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Ape City said:


> page 5 in the spoiler:
> 
> 
> 
> Overeem is just applying for a license.


Oh thanks! I have no time to read each post today.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

SJ said:


> Oh thanks! I have no time to read each post today.


np man! 

I really think this is just a rumor. Overeem isn't gonna fail before the biggest fight of his life.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Just a rumour, nothing else.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Ape City said:


> How did he lose to Werdum?


He got out-struck. He basically landed nothing. 

Werdum effectively pulled him into his guard plenty of times. A guy putting a guy where he wants should count more than a guy getting put in a place where he doesn't want to be.

Watch the fight again. It is hard to score...but I'm not sure what Overeem even did? They both deserve to lose.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

They both deserve to lose but Werdum did nothing to win that fight, and what cost him the fight is flopping on the ground and trying to pull guard every 30 seconds.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Spec0688 said:


> They both deserve to lose but Werdum did nothing to win that fight, and what cost him the fight is flopping on the ground and trying to pull guard every 30 seconds.


Explain to me what Overeem did then? Pulling guard is WHAT WERDUM WANTED TO DO. HE IS PERHAPS THE BEST BJJ HW IN THE WORLD. HE SUB"D OVEREEM FROM GUARD THE 1st FIGHT!!!

So explain why a guy should lose points for doing what he wanted...that is getting Overeem in his guard?

Not to mention he threw more strikes...and landed more strikes.

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/06/overeem-vs-werdum-ii-official.html

Stats show Werdum landed more. Overeem never hurt Werdum...so how can you say he won? Watch the damn fight. 

The almighty striker got out-struck by an average MMA striker. FACT.

Werdum won a very boring fight. People act like Werdum is at fault. HE THREW MORE STRIKES THAN OVEREEM!!! Overeem didn't do shit.

But hey...lets not let simple facts get in the way of sucking on Overeems roided horse dong.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> He got out-struck. He basically landed nothing.
> 
> Werdum effectively pulled him into his guard plenty of times. A guy putting a guy where he wants should count more than a guy getting put in a place where he doesn't want to be.
> 
> Watch the fight again. It is hard to score...but I'm not sure what Overeem even did? They both deserve to lose.


This wasn't a fight, it was rather a contest but far drom being a _fight_. Very difficult to say who won whene neither of them does anything relevant.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Totally agree with that actually. Werdum controlled that fight via Reems fear of the ground, Werdum landed more strikes and was the more successful fighter, regardless of how boring.


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## lutalivre1989 (Jan 10, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Explain to me what Overeem did then? Pulling guard is WHAT WERDUM WANTED TO DO. HE IS PERHAPS THE BEST BJJ HW IN THE WORLD.


Yes he wanted to pull guard but he failed at it.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Rauno said:


> This wasn't a fight, it was rather a contest but far drom being a _fight_. Very difficult to say who won whene neither of them does anything relevant.


I agree. 

It is very hard to score. But when you can't really score it, stats say Werdum won.

And I'm not giving him a million points for pulling guard. BUt isn't that EXACTLY where he wanted Overeem? He should get "Some" credit for getting him there over and over. It isn't like Overeem did anything other than lay on top of him.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Not go for it every 30 seconds? find more, better ways to get your opponent to where your strengths are? actually use wrestling? 

Its like the Anderson/Leites,Maia fight... You have to get your opponent down instead of trying to pull guard and just hope he follows, its ridiculous. 

If I see a fighter doing nothing but flopping down on his back because he's some expert black belt, and not doing anything else for the first 5-10 minutes, he will lose the round 10 times out of 10. 

You can do that type of gameplan to any fighter, go for a strike and fall on your back, its beyond reasoning. You don't win fights like that. If you want a BJJ match, go to a BJJ competition, or actually take your opponent down, simple.

The type of gameplan Werdum used for the first 2 rounds can make any fighter look bad.... lunge in and punch, drop down on back, rinse and repeat...rinse and repeat...rinse and repeat......need I go on?

I'm no Overeem fanboy, I want Brock Lesnar to win deceively come Dec 30th. Just stating on how I see it.


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## lutalivre1989 (Jan 10, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I agree.
> 
> It is very hard to score. But when you can't really score it, stats say Werdum won.
> 
> And I'm not giving him a million points for pulling guard. BUt isn't that EXACTLY where he wanted Overeem? He should get "Some" credit for getting him there over and over. It isn't like Overeem did anything other than lay on top of him.


Maybe my memory of the fight is off but if i recall it correctly Werdum was only once or twice able to get Overeem to the ground and he never was able to tie him up and force him into grappling.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Spec0688 said:


> Not go for it every 30 seconds? find more, better ways to get your opponent to where your strengths are? actually use wrestling?
> 
> Its like the Anderson/Leites,Maia fight... You have to get your opponent down instead of trying to pull guard and just hope he follows, its ridiculous.
> 
> ...


Thats all well and good. But he out-struck him too. So where do you give the fight to Overeem? Fir laying on top of him and freezing up each time they were on the ground.

Ok


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

lutalivre1989 said:


> Maybe my memory of the fight is off but if i recall it correctly Werdum was only once or twice able to get Overeem to the ground and he never was able to tie him up and force him into grappling.


He got him there more than twice I believe. Overeem didn't want to be there. Werdum did. So any points or credit given goes to Werdum. Overeem didn't land any GnP. He just layed on his chest. 

Then Werdum out-struck him. So I'm just curious as to where you guys score it for Overeem? 

I'm not trying to say Werdum obviously won the fight. But if you are going to score it for anyone it should go to Werdum. Fight Metric and plenty of people seemed to watch the same fight I watched and agree Werdum won a boring fight.

If Overeem was so badass, he would of used his size to keep Werdum from pulling anything. And then he would of proceeded to use that awesome k-1 striking to land a devastating shot when Werdumm came in.

But he didn't. Werdum landed more and threw more against a guy who is supposed to be a great striker. 

So remind who is at fault. A guy implementing his game plan and landing more...or a guy who was afraid to strike and didn't do much of anything?:confused05:


----------



## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Often in this fight, and seemingly more frequently as the fight went on, Werdum would try rushing in on Overeem with strikes. Instead of countering the rush immediately, Overeem would cover up. This let Werdum get in a few pot shots and then either one of two things happened. Either Werdum would immediately flop to the ground after throwing the pot shots, or Overeem would hit Werdum 1-2 times (sometimes cleanly, sometimes not) before Werdum had a chance to flop to the ground.

After flopping to the ground, Overeem would motion Werdum up and Werdum would motion Overeem to come down. Repeat x99.

On paper, Werdum's rushes + immediate flop tactic vs Overeem's turtleling instantly when attacked meant that Werdum got to throw strikes at Overeem and flop before Overeem could respond..... This results in the inflated striking.

I remember the backlash after this fight, many fans wanted a point deducted from Werdum because of that stupid gameplan coming out in the first. Thats not a fighting gameplan, simple.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Spec0688 said:


> Well like I said, he lost because he imposed a stupid gameplan. If he did what he did later in the fight from the beginning, who knows... he might have won.
> 
> Its like the Big Nog situation from last night, if he would have kept his position and kept throwing and Mir when he was face down on the canvas, probably would have won.


How was it a stupid gameplan? Just because you didn't like it does't mean anything.

He WANTED him in his guard. He got it there more than a few times. So how is it stupid that he got him in a position to looks for sub attempts?

Why didn't Overeem keep him off of him? Why didn't Overeem outstrike him? Why didn't Overeem throw more since all Werdum could do was pull guard? 

Werdum landed more in a fight where neither guy did much. That means he won. 

Sorry to break it to you. Just because you wanted Overeem to KO him and thought he would...and he got out-struck by Werdum...doesn't mean Werdum didn't win.

He won the 1st and 3rd rounds. Either way I don't count it as a legit HW win for Overeem. He showed nothing.

So to get back to my first point...Overeem has 0...ZERO...legit HW wins in his career.


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> How was it a stupid gameplan? Just because you didn't like it does't mean anything.
> 
> He WANTED him in his guard. He got it there more than a few times. So how is it stupid that he got him in a position to looks for sub attempts?
> 
> ...


.....You can't be serious.


----------



## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

You are like a deer stuck in the headlights, it's not even worth debating anymore because you're stuck with your opinion. You're either a Werdum fanboy or just arguing for the sake or arguing. Like I said, I'm not a huge fan of Overeem, think he's overrated and you're still trying to use the card 'you just want to see Overeem KO him'.


----------



## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

hixxy said:


> Word going around twitter right now.. Sorry dont have a source right now.


Overeem, Lesnar, Mir...I think they're all using "bulking up supplements", let em fight.


----------



## menace (Dec 11, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> How was it a stupid gameplan? Just because you didn't like it does't mean anything.
> 
> He WANTED him in his guard. He got it there more than a few times. So how is it stupid that he got him in a position to looks for sub attempts?
> 
> ...




lol...


----------



## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Overeem should have countered, not covered.


----------



## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

mastodon2222 said:


> Overeem, Lesnar, Mir...I think they're all using "bulking up supplements", let em fight.


Hahaha, right on. I agree


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Kinda hope he is busted for roids just to LOL @ so many of the people who said "well hes passed all his tests so hes not on roids." Even though its quite clear he is (probably HGH)


----------



## Dream-On-101 (Jun 4, 2009)

Cycling on and off before a fight is ridiculously easy, and they dont even test for Growth Hormone. If they dont test for it why not use it? And dont come at me with the moral arguments because this is their living, its how they feed their families, and if they can get an edge (not really because i think those who dont use in the UFC are in the extreme minority) in order to do that more successfully then they are going to take it. 

Overeem is on GH and probably a few other things - its obvious, just use your eyes. 

Lesnar is the poster child for using growth at a very young age, and i bet he had more chemicals than a chemists office when he was in the WWE.

Mir is another one who could quite easily be utilising a bit of 'assitance'. Bottom line is, i dont really care. When they get caught and this brings bad press to the sport, i do care though. As long as they can be sensible and cycle it right, they wont get caught, and people can live in blissful ignorance. Steroids are so widely used across all avenues of sport it is ridiculous people still kick up such a fuss. Steroids should be legal in sports (thats a personal opinion so dont flame me if you dont agree, i know it can be a contentious issue) but its absolutely insane that they are actually illegal in general life. 

Roid rant over. I'm sure Reem hasnt been caught with anything.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> .....You can't be serious.


So tell me. Other than this crappy Werdum win which no one did much of anything what is his best HW win?

Brett Rogers or Paul Buentello? Those are some real winners.



Spec0688 said:


> You are like a deer stuck in the headlights, it's not even worth debating anymore because you're stuck with your opinion. You're either a Werdum fanboy or just arguing for the sake or arguing. Like I said, I'm not a huge fan of Overeem, think he's overrated and you're still trying to use the card 'you just want to see Overeem KO him'.


Yea I'm a Werdum fanboy because I said he won a craptastic fight which no one did much of anything.

Yea I'm wrong because the stats show that Werdum outstruck him. Yea, I'm wrong because Overeem did nothing.

You bring no facts. You are the one held up on the fact that Werdum tried to pull guard. 

Werdum should have won the fight...it was a bad fight, and a bad decision. 

I'm wrong. I give up. Overeem looked amazing. He showed awesome striking and really took it to Werdum. :confused03:

Overeem has ran from North America for years. How many times did he even defend that crappy strikeforce title? Once in like 5 years? Thats pretty good.

Has to hide his roids over in Japan and fight straight cans.

First legit guy he has faced in YEARS and he looked like complete shit. Wonder why? Hmmm..maybe he isn't that good.

While JDS is KOing Werdum in the 1st round, Overeem is covering up against Werdum thinking he has those big puffy K-1 gloves on. 

The most overrated K-1 title run in history.


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> So tell me. Other than this crappy Werdum win which no one did much of anything what is his best HW win?
> 
> Brett Rogers or Paul Buentello? Those are some real winners.


Who cares if the win was crappy, he won, have you seen the actual fight? Werdum didn't come to fight, he came there to try and sucker Alistair into his guard after he just submitted Fedor. Why don't you go tell Junior or Cain or Brock to go jump into Werdum's guard and see how they do.


----------



## Randomhero FTW (Aug 29, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Who cares if the win was crappy, he won, have you seen the actual fight? Werdum didn't come to fight, he came there to try and sucker Alistair into his guard after he just submitted Fedor. Why don't you go tell Junior or Cain or Brock to go jump into Werdum's guard and see how they do.


So do you deny that Werdum outstruck Overeem, or are you just going to ignorantly pretend that it doesn't matter?


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Who cares if the win was crappy, he won, have you seen the actual fight? Werdum didn't come to fight, he came there to try and sucker Alistair into his guard after he just submitted Fedor. Why don't you go tell Junior or Cain or Brock to go jump into Werdum's guard and see how they do.


Brock would be nuts to butt with Werdum lickity split. He'd be moving to half guard for some gnp right after that though


----------



## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Who cares if the win was crappy, he won, have you seen the actual fight? Werdum didn't come to fight, he came there to try and sucker Alistair into his guard after he just submitted Fedor. Why don't you go tell Junior or Cain or Brock to go jump into Werdum's guard and see how they do.



JDS would have pounded Werdum the first time he tried it.


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

So is there any update on Overeems status?


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Who cares if the win was crappy, he won, have you seen the actual fight? Werdum didn't come to fight, he came there to try and sucker Alistair into his guard after he just submitted Fedor. Why don't you go tell Junior or Cain or Brock to go jump into Werdum's guard and see how they do.


What part of him landing more strikes than Overeem can you not get through your little brain?


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

cdtcpl said:


> So is there any update on Overeems status?


The NSAC meeting is today at 5 PM, ET i guess?


----------



## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

Holy cow, this thread went bonkers. This is mainly a spectacle fight; just enjoy it for what it is. Neither of these guys have proven a whole lot other than they are powerful, but at heavyweight, 'powerful' gets work done.

Legitimacy of the fighters will be proven in time; arguments about it are fruitless and annoying. 

I look forward to clarification of his status.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Sound like Overeem left the country and the commission in the dark. Sounds like he has tried to skirt the system. Sounds like he may not get his license.


----------



## smokelaw1 (Aug 3, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Sound like Overeem left the country and the commission in the dark. Sounds like he has tried to skirt the system. Sounds like he may not get his license.


WHAT!!?!! Seriously? Did he not show? 
Holy crappola.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

smokelaw1 said:


> WHAT!!?!! Seriously? Did he not show?
> Holy crappola.


No. When he left to be with his mother. Supposedly he didn't let the commission know even though he was scheduled for a test.

But now its coming out he had enough time to do the countdown show stuff right before he left.

I guess he went to Holland and his "personal trainer" took the test. It wasn't even the right test. And for unknown reasons it is in Germany right now. 

So he hasn't even taken the proper test yet. I don't see how he is licenced in time.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/alistar-overeem-nsac-meeting#utm_campaign=sherdognet.craveonline.com&utm_source=9947839&utm_medium=social

This is the hearing live


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

"You've been a light-heavyweight and are just now heavyweight for this fight."

"I've been a heavyweight for the last 4 years."

"Oh."


----------



## Jason12 (May 8, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> No. When he left to be with his mother. Supposedly he didn't let the commission know even though he was scheduled for a test.
> 
> But now its coming out he had enough time to do the countdown show stuff right before he left.
> 
> ...


By the sounds of it he was asked for a "random test" on November 17th and he took one on December 7th.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

He's a doper. Been a doper since he's moved up to HW. Why else would he fight cans in Japan for so long? Why would he just blow off this test and then do the wrong test not even with a real doctor?

He is obviously on roids. Anyone that thinks any different is just blinded by their fandom.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

lol they apparently want to random drug test Overeem randomly now because he dropped the ball on the test. Fight still looks good to go though.


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> He's a doper. Been a doper since he's moved up to HW. Why else would he fight cans in Japan for so long? Why would he just blow off this test and then do the wrong test not even with a real doctor?
> 
> He is obviously on roids. Anyone that thinks any different is just blinded by their fandom.


So explain how he passed his drug tests for the Rogers and Werdum fights.


----------



## Jason12 (May 8, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> So explain how he passed his drug tests for the Rogers and Werdum fights.


I would tend to agree with this although he would not be the first to use and get past a drug test. It is curious that he took 3 weeks to do a "random test". Looks like he will get some sort of conditional license.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> So explain how he passed his drug tests for the Rogers and Werdum fights.


Um, his cycle passed in time because he knew the date of the test.

Um he gets random tested and its oh, well, um, things got mixed up. He had a guy that doesn't even work with other athletes do his test. A personal friend basically. Now the test is supposedly in Germany. And get this...IT WASNT EVEN THE RIGHT TEST!

Did you even listen to the hearing or are you just here to defend a guy you like with no fact or info at all?


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Looks like they are giving him a conditional license.

Unreal...anyone else would get laughed out of there. UFC can grease some edges.

Never seen a commission allow a late test that wasn't even the right test.

Hey at least it looks like the fight is still on.


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Um, his cycle passed in time because he knew the date of the test.
> 
> Um he gets random tested and its oh, well, um, things got mixed up. He had a guy that doesn't even work with other athletes do his test. A personal friend basically. Now the test is supposedly in Germany. And get this...IT WASNT EVEN THE RIGHT TEST!
> 
> Did you even listen to the hearing or are you just here to defend a guy you like with no fact or info at all?


Overeem has never failed a drug test in his life, I have absolutely no reason to doubt him, it is possible he has attained his physique naturally, you know with hard work and a good diet.

If he fails a test, let me know, I'll change my tune, you're just assuming he does roids with no concrete evidence.


----------



## Jason12 (May 8, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Looks like they are giving him a conditional license.
> 
> Unreal...anyone else would get laughed out of there. UFC can grease some edges.
> 
> ...


The conditional license was based on his December 7th test being negative and taking 2 "random" tests in the following 6 months after the fight. No one else agreed so they are going back to deliberation.

Edit: It sounds like they are just trying to find a way for him to do another test ASAP somewhere legitimate.

Edit 2: License granted based on him doing a legit test ASAP and then random testing following the fight.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Overeem has never failed a drug test in his life, I have absolutely no reason to doubt him, it is possible he has attained his physique naturally, you know with hard work and a good diet.
> 
> If he fails a test, let me know, I'll change my tune, you're just assuming he does roids with no concrete evidence.


Dude, he has fought a million time in Japan.

You are the worst poster here. What are you like 10 years old? Do you have any idea about anything?:confused03:


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

seems like overeem has been liscensed?

"Motion passes unanimously. Test within 72 hours, test when he lands in the U.S., two randoms post-fight. Overeem is licensed." tweet from mma junkie


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Um, his cycle passed in time because he knew the date of the test.
> 
> Um he gets random tested and its oh, well, um, things got mixed up. He had a guy that doesn't even work with other athletes do his test. A personal friend basically. Now the test is supposedly in Germany. And get this...IT WASNT EVEN THE RIGHT TEST!
> 
> Did you even listen to the hearing or are you just here to defend a guy you like with no fact or info at all?


That wasn't that big of a deal, outside of NA, the laboratories that do these tests aren't just everywhere.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ACTAFOOL said:


> seems like overeem has been liscensed?
> 
> "Motion passes unanimously. Test within 72 hours, test when he lands in the U.S., two randoms post-fight. Overeem is licensed." tweet from mma junkie


I don't see what the point of a test is. So it is a month later than it was scheduled...what is the point? To let all the roids vanish from the tests? I've never seen a guy skip a test, let alone take the wrong test and still get passed.


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I don't see what the point of a test is. So it is a month later than it was scheduled...what is the point? To let all the roids vanish from the tests? I've never seen a guy skip a test, let alone take the wrong test and still get passed.


yeah there has been many fishy things in this whole story to say the least, ive always thought ubereem was on roids, i think its pretty obvious, though i dont really care im still a fan

anway, point being lesnar took his tests when he was asked and it all came back clean and approved, reem had a lot of excuses and pretty much blamed his assistance for everything, the only thing i actually think reem is telling the truth about is him going to holland before he knew he had to take the tests since he bought the plane tickest 2 days before they asked him

but still, he could've taken the tests there in a proper manner like the NSAC said...by now overeem will be clear of anything that he had taken as long has he doesnt roid up before the fight wich im sure he wont

pretty BS IMO but o well, at least we get to see the fight!


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Dude, he has fought a million time in Japan.
> 
> You are the worst poster here. What are you like 10 years old? Do you have any idea about anything?:confused03:


So fighting in Japan automatically means you're on roids?

Was Fedor on them? What about Shogun, Nog, Cro Cop, and Wand? I guess Gomi was doing them to? You think Rampage roided too?

What you're doing is assuming shit, Overeem has fought in the states a handful of times, and he's passed every test. He even passed a recent blood test.

You have nothing to back up your belief that he's on roids except "he's fought in Japan a bunch of times"


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ACTAFOOL said:


> yeah there has been many fishy things in this whole story to say the least, ive always thought ubereem was on roids, i think its pretty obvious, though i dont really care im still a fan
> 
> anway, point being lesnar took his tests when he was asked and it all came back clean and approved, reem had a lot of excuses and pretty much blamed his assistance for everything, the only thing i actually think reem is telling the truth about is him going to holland before he knew he had to take the tests since he bought the plane tickest 2 days before they asked him
> 
> ...


I agree with all of this. 

And agree with glad the fight is still going down. I just think it is ridiculous that Lesnar is clean as a whistle but Overeem we will never know. Any roids will be out of his system by now.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> So fighting in Japan automatically means you're on roids?
> 
> Was Fedor on them? What about Shogun, Nog, Cro Cop, and Wand? I guess Gomi was doing them to? You think Rampage roided too?
> 
> ...


Hey idiot. Because they don't have the same tests as America if any. They welcome roids. See Bob freaking Sapp.

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE EVEN TALKING ABOUT. PLEASE STOP TALKING.


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Hey idiot. Because they don't have the same tests as America if any. They welcome roids. See Bob freaking Sapp.
> 
> YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE EVEN TALKING ABOUT. PLEASE STOP TALKING.


Oh my God...

I know what I'm talking about, I know they don't test there but guess what? They do test here, and Overeem JUST FOUGHT in the US and he passed his drug test with no problems, same thing for the Rogers fight, you have NO *PROOF* that he does roids. You're just assuming shit because he's got a good physique on him.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

JohnnyG cool it.


As far as Overeem goes, I generally don't care if HWs use steroids, I feel like the physical advantage they get from it is HUGELY different than lower weight classes...although Frank Mir who I suspect might be proving that theory wrong with his arm snapping prowess.

I mean, look at Overeem, sure he hits hard, but the dude has massive cardio problems...which IMO is the trade off for doping and being yoked out of his mind.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Johnny, Lyoto, let's turn it down a notch. Discuss matters in a civil manner.

As for the Overeem thing..










This is his transformation. How does this indicate that he is on steroids? In 2004 he was ripped to shreds but was clearly on a wrong weight class. He couldn't even lift weighs just to maintain his weight. The suddenly he started. He trains very hard, sleeps a lot, eats 6-7 times a day, i'm sure his working with nutritionists. Is it so hard to believe his just a hard worker? 

He seems like he has very good genes and bulking up like that in what, 5-6 years is not impossible.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

I project Jon Jones will get huge like that as well. He's already got a massive upperbody.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> I project Jon Jones will get huge like that as well. He's already got a massive upperbody.


I can see it happening too, at one point Jones has to take the same path and move up in weight.


----------



## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

One could say the same for silva, but he is still very skinny... Jbj doesn't have to move up just like silva no matter how bad we all want to see it...


----------



## MMA specialist (Nov 8, 2010)

Rauno said:


> Johnny, Lyoto, let's turn it down a notch. Discuss matters in a civil manner.
> 
> As for the Overeem thing..
> 
> ...


^ This exactly.

If Reem has been juicing hes gotten good at hiding it, he came up positive in his fights with Rogers, Werdum AND Paul Buentello. Even if he was on roids i really wouldn't care, been waiting for Reem in the UFC for too long for another fight to get pulled!


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

dsmjrv said:


> One could say the same for silva, but he is still very skinny... Jbj doesn't have to move up just like silva no matter how bad we all want to see it...


Except Silva started his career at 168lbs.

So he's already moved up substantially in weight. The fact that he was able to fight at 205 is that more ridiculous and at the time he did it, his body had already filled out and he had already stopped growing substantially...he was well in his mid 30s when he decided to make that experimental jump.


----------



## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

Rauno said:


> Johnny, Lyoto, let's turn it down a notch. Discuss matters in a civil manner.
> 
> As for the Overeem thing..
> 
> ...


ah yes, the good old overeem growth chart.


an overeem thread just doesn't feel complete until someone posts it.

still, the biggest jump in weight in a short amount of time goes to frank mur in my book


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

chosenFEW said:


> ah yes, the good old overeem growth chart.
> 
> 
> an overeem thread just doesn't feel complete until someone posts it.
> ...


Well i've only seen the chart being brought up to say his on roids, i did the opposite. My first time to use an Overeem chart i think.

Mir has grown a lot since all this Lesnar fiasco started.


----------



## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

Rauno said:


> Well i've only seen the chart being brought up to say his on roids, i did the opposite. My first time to use an Overeem chart i think.
> 
> Mir has grown a lot since all this Lesnar fiasco started.


dude, mir went from 245 against lesnar to 265 against kongo

and we dont know if he was cutting weight heading into that weigh-in so it could be more than 265.... thats about 20 pounds in 6 or so months

i think overeem hovers around 245 right now

edit: mir fought lesnar on july and weighed 245.... exactly 5 months later he fought cheick and weighed 264 1/2. thats a lot for someone who was already fairly muscular to begin with. yet no one questions mir as they do overeem.


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

chosenFEW said:


> dude, mir went from 245 against lesnar to 265 against kongo
> 
> and we dont know if he was cutting weight heading into that weigh-in so it could be more than 265.... thats about 20 pounds in 6 or so months
> 
> i think overeem hovers around 245 right now


He's not arguing that.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Didn't Lyoto gain like 20 lbs of muscle from Couture to Jones as well?


----------



## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

RustyRenegade said:


> He's not arguing that.



yeah I know, i was just carrying on a general conversation about something. Perhaps I shouldn't have quoted him specifically to not make it look like I was arguing with him.


cheers.


----------



## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Rauno said:


> Didn't Lyoto gain like 20 lbs of muscle from Couture to Jones as well?


No. That was a horrible over estimation by some news site. Machida barely put on 5-10 pounds, if that. He looked marginally bigger at best.


----------



## Risto (Oct 11, 2006)

Yeah, and Lesnar has never done droids...

Let them go at it - it's hardly an important fight anyway.


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

It does not matter if overeem is clean or dirty, i do believe lesnar was dirty at one point. These dudes are both huge and one of them is gonna get their ass kick. Its a dream fight, and i just want to see it happen.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

chosenFEW said:


> dude, mir went from 245 against lesnar to 265 against kongo
> 
> and we dont know if he was cutting weight heading into that weigh-in so it could be more than 265.... thats about 20 pounds in 6 or so months
> 
> ...


People actually used to question Mir quiet a bit actually. But then his training regiment came out and he was training with a world strongest man guy. It then became alot more believable.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> It does not matter if overeem is clean or dirty, i do believe lesnar was dirty at one point. These dudes are both huge and one of them is gonna get their ass kick. Its a dream fight, and i just want to see it happen.


Who cares if LEsnar WAS on roids. He was in Pro Wrestling, you can't not do roids in Pro Wrestling.

Lesnar is WAAAAAAAY smaller than he was in the WWE.


Like Mir said. Look at Overeem's waist. He looks like a "nicely" muscled up LHW. Exactly what he is. Mir has always been thick and wide. He had a bunch of fat back in the day and was 245. He had the frame to transform fat into muscle. Overeem is a skinny dude, with a blown up upper body. Looks like a comic book. Kongo looks like a comic hero too...but is isn't sitting there at 260 lbs after being a LHW. He is 230. Because it is natural.

Lesnar would have qualified for MMA HW since he entered college.

Big difference. 

It is amazing a guy can be 3 weeks late on a given test. Eventually have your "friend" who works with NO other athletes give you the test. It not even be the right test. And people can defend him like he ain't hiding something. 

He got caught off-guard. He isn't used to random testing. When he knows the date of the test he can properly get the roids out of his system. When he didn't know the date he scrambled and did things wrong in 3 different ways. 

:confused03:


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Jon Jones is bigger at age 24 than Overeem was. 

So when he moves up to HW eventually...everyone think he will naturally bulk up to 255-260 of solid muscle? 

I'm not saying Overeem is the ONLY MMA guy who does roids. I'm just saying it is OBVIOUS he does. People are fighting it so much because they don't want to believe it.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Please use the edit button and don't double post jonnyg4508.

As for Overeem being a natural LHW, i disagree. Look how drained he was in that weight and he couldn't even train properly. He has bulked a bit too much though which affects his cardio. I'd say he'd be perfect at around 230 lbs and he'd make a perfect cruiserweight if there was such a division.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Rauno said:


> Please use the edit button and don't double post jonnyg4508.
> 
> As for Overeem being a natural LHW, i disagree. Look how drained he was in that weight and he couldn't even train properly. He has bulked a bit too much though which affects his cardio. I'd say he'd be perfect at around 230 lbs and he'd make a perfect cruiserweight if there was such a division.


That is why I think he is on the roids.

He doesn't carry the weight at all. He is slow and his legs are tiny. Seems like he was real concerned with pumping up his chest and upper body. 

He might not be a LHW. But he in no way shape or form fits into a 260lb HW. All of his weight comes from his bursting muscles. His bones are small for a big HW. Guys like Travis Browne, Mir, and so on have big bones. 

If anyone is familiar with Barry Bonds case with roids. Much of the speculation came from his head growth. His head got much bigger over time. Look at the timeline...look at Overeem's skinny head back in 2004. Now look at it.

Men usually stop growing around age 23-25. Overeem got super huge in his late 20s. Pretty weird to me. Sure you can lift and get bigger. But only strongmen or body builders seem to take it to that level. For a guy who is practicing kickboxing and all around MMA everyday, seems like he wouldn't have time to do a regiment of a body builder and lift weight every day. Would leave no time for all his striking and conditioning.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

To see those kind of muscular gains naturally would be a massive undertaking in the time frame he did it in. What makes it even more questionable is exactly what mrhyperpants (jonnyG)said.... that is some seriously gym commitment and a lot of bulking phases. To keep the cardio you need to fight, there is no way he successfully bulked that much naturally.

Regardless of all of that... I don't really care. I just want to see these two fight.

For Frank Mir... he obviously put on muscle, but the dude is still sitting at a higher BF % so it's not impossible to think he put on 20lbs. It wasn't 20lbs of lean muscle for sure.


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

I was watching the ustream of the NSAC meeting with overeem and you know what? it seemed kind of fishy. It may have changed my tune about him a bit.

Just to clear something up that you said, johnny. Fat does not transform into muscle, that is a widely used misconception.

You do however lose fat and gain muscle mass when working out, and the stored up fat acts as a reservoir of energy for your body.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

chosenFEW said:


> I was watching the ustream of the NSAC meeting with overeem and you know what? it seemed kind of fishy. It may have changed my tune about him a bit.
> 
> Just to clear something up that you said, johnny. Fat does not transform into muscle, that is a widely used misconception.
> 
> You do however lose fat and gain muscle mass when working out, and the stored up fat acts as a reservoir of energy for your body.


Like the guy above said. Mir still isn't exactly ripped. He is in much better looking shape than he was back in the day. But he has always been a wide dude with room to add muscle. I doubt he did much lifting at all back when he was a BJJ only guy. Brock woke him up to the fact that he has to focus on being stronger to deal with these guys. Problem is, I don't think it will help him much vs. the real athletes of the division like Cain or JDS. Because he is much more of a technique fighter than Brock or Carwin. He doesn't use this added size at all.


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Like the guy above said. Mir still isn't exactly ripped. He is in much better looking shape than he was back in the day. But he has always been a wide dude with room to add muscle. I doubt he did much lifting at all back when he was a BJJ only guy. Brock woke him up to the fact that he has to focus on being stronger to deal with these guys. Problem is, I don't think it will help him much vs. the real athletes of the division like Cain or JDS. Because he is much more of a technique fighter than Brock or Carwin. He doesn't use this added size at all.


right.... mir wasnt ripped at 245.... okayyyy....lol


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

chosenFEW said:


> right.... mir wasnt ripped at 245.... okayyyy....lol


Um where did I say he wasn't. 

Back in the day when he was only a BJJ guy he was fat. I'm talking breaking Timmys arm days. Mir the champ days.

He went from fat and out of shape Mir. To in shape. To adding weight to deal with big guys. He in no way added a bunch of lean muscle.

Not sure what you are even talking about.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

For someone with Frank Mir's body type, losing or gaining 20lbs in 5-6 months isn't that big of a deal. Half of that weight could easily have been water retention.

Frank Mir at 245lbs:









Frank Mir at 265lbs:









There isn't a huge difference in his mass.... There is however a noticeable change to his definition. IMO, may have added a few lbs of muscle, but most just water weight.


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Um where did I say he wasn't.







> Mir *still* isn't exactly ripped. He is in much better looking shape than he was back in the day


as in he wasn't ripped back then and he still isn't.


choose your wording more carefully as to not be misunderstood

the whole point with mir was that he put on the weight in 5 months. Overeem went from fighting at 205 to a 250 heavyweight with years time. and he definitely has the frame for the weight as well. he doesn't look like palhares or lombard.


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

amoosenamedhank said:


> For someone with Frank Mir's body type, losing or gaining 20lbs in 5-6 months isn't that big of a deal. Half of that weight could easily have been water retention.
> 
> Frank Mir at 245lbs:
> 
> ...



yeah could be true. unfortunately, we all are just speculating on the issue as nothing can be proven as is. or as of now


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

You are right nothing can be proven.

But it is said there is no facility close to Brock for this stuff. So he on his own went to the nearest major hospital and had a doctor he didn't even know give him the test....in which he passed ON TIME.

Yet Overeem has a personal trainer do the test and is 3 weeks late.

There is no proof because Reem didn't offer proof. Any testing now doesn't even matter. 

Brock was able to find a 3rd party to give him the test on time. Why did it take REEM 3 weeks past the date to not even get the right test in?


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> You are right nothing can be proven.
> 
> But it is said there is no facility close to Brock for this stuff. So he on his own went to the nearest major hospital and had a doctor he didn't even know give him the test....in which he passed ON TIME.
> 
> ...


i agree with you on that. After hearing the NSAC meeting and listening to the responses something seems fishy (as I mentioned). Definitely makes me have some doubts that i didn't have previously.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

So Overeem was using some sort of drug which so obvious and now finally someone has some hard evidence , good because it was so obvious but sucks for the card which was decent.


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