# Dana on Fedor and his "Lunatics"



## MatParker116 (Feb 21, 2009)

> "[Co-promotion with them] will never happen in a million years. [Strikeforce is] a minor league. Listen I have come to the realization and everyone else needs to too that Fedor (Emelianenko) doesn’t want to fight the best guys in the world. Believe me when I tell you guys I have done everything in my power, I have flown to crazy parts of the world, done all this stuff, been on the phone for hours, not hung out with my kids on weekends because I’m on the phone with these lunatics and just can’t make the deal. They don’t want to do it so we gotta get over it."


Well said Dana


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Fine, then he should get over it finally.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

Meh, I agree. When discussions really heated up about getting Fedor to the UFC, names like Lesnar, Cain, JDS and Carwin weren't really even in the mix. I think Fedor is amazing, and there's no doubt about that, but I truly think he'd get smashed by these behemoths and therefore a lot of the appeal of seeing him in the UFC has died to me. I don't want to see another Couture/Lesnar fight. 

Granted, I do think not being in the UFC hurts Fedor's legacy, and having him would be fun. But overall the appeal has died off a lot.


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## Fedornumber1! (Jun 18, 2008)

Calibretto9 said:


> Meh, I agree. When discussions really heated up about getting Fedor to the UFC, names like Lesnar, Cain, JDS and Carwin weren't really even in the mix. I think Fedor is amazing, and there's no doubt about that, but I truly think he'd get smashed by these behemoths and therefore a lot of the appeal of seeing him in the UFC has died to me. I don't want to see another Couture/Lesnar fight.
> 
> Granted, I do think not being in the UFC hurts Fedor's legacy, and having him would be fun. But overall the appeal has died off a lot.


Totaly agreed Fedor is no where near as appealing as he used to be in 2008


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

If Fedor want's to be considered the best p4p in the world then he's gotta get his Rusky ass over to the UFC and fight the best, otherwise he'll retire as POSSIBLY the best p4p fighter in the world.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> but I truly think he'd get smashed by these behemoths and therefore a lot of the appeal of seeing him in the UFC has died to me.


It doesn't matter. For example, lots of people, including myself and Joe Rogan, never really expected that Machida would get his ass whooped by Shogun on UFC 104. As it turned out, Shogun came out and proved us wrong. I personally 3 times in a row was wrong about Frank Mir, I expected him to beat Lesnar on UFC 100 and he lost, then I thought that Kongo would beat him and Mir won impressively, and I was wrong about the Carwin fight as well. MMA's unpredictability makes it much more interesting for me than any other kind of sport because we often have surprises. Which is why to say that the most decorated fighter with no legit loses stands no chance with current UFC fighters is just not right. Anything can happen. Fedor can join and literally walk through everybody with ease or he can lose to everyone including Pat Barry via high kick. You never know. Who could've truly expected a few years ago that Anderson Silva would become the most successful UFC MW champion in history and would beat Forrest Griffin like a 7-year-old kid? Or who's gonna prevail on UFC 116, Lesnar or Carwin? Arguments can be made for both, but nobody can be really sure of an outcome. And with Fedor it's the same thing.

As for Dana White's speech, well, I still think that Fedor and him should meet in person and discuss everything. I assume it's possible. Speaking over the phone with M-1 people has already been proven futile. And Fedor said that he's never even spoken with Dana White which is not good.


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## FatFreeMilk (Jan 22, 2010)

A fight with Overeem is all that's left (all there ever was?) for him at SF. After that he has to come to the UFC or his recent legacy will be tarnished by some.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> After that he has to come to the UFC or his recent legacy will be tarnished by some


It will be extremely upsetting if Fedor keeps fighting somewhere in DREAM or elsewhere and gets knocked out or submitted by some guy with 5-5 record. It wouldn't be so terrible to lose to Velasquez or Cigano in UFC. But losing to a guy who is nowhere near TOP 5 is shameful. And DREAM and Strikeforce have those "dark horses".


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

What is this, Dana looking for sympathy? Get the **** out of here.


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## kgilstrap (Dec 3, 2006)

Fedor's last real fight outside the UFC is against Overeem. He should've never fought Rogers to begin with, that was ridiculous. Furthermore he got called out by overeem after his fight who stated fedor refused his fight. All this points tot he same thing dana is saying, he's worried about the money, not fighting the best in the world


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Fedornumber1! said:


> Totaly agreed Fedor is no where near as appealing as he used to be in 2008




:thumbsup:


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Fine, then he should get over it finally.



Ain't that the truth.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

Fedor and White have opposite agenda's. Dana wants to promote the UFC and Fedor wants to promote M-1. \Fedor is at the end of his career and it trying to leverage some monstor paydays to retire on. If Dana REALLY wanted to, he could allow one of his HW's to fight outside the UFC to fight Fedor and then we would see. But he won't, becuse it's all about the UFC for Dana.
Ferdor disappointed me when he shined on the UFC, to me it proved he isn't interested in fighting the best. but it's his business.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...Dana is still doing the Fedor dance. It's getting real old. Notice they are doing a UFC 113 replay on Spike to counter Strikeforce's Fedor & Werdum. White knows most will be watching Fedor. I think Dana is about as obsessed with Fedor as Mir was with Lesnar. True, Fedor's biggest competition would be in the UFC. It seems the more Dana taunts Fedor, the less likely Emelianenko will sign with the UFC. I think when Fedor signed with Strikeforce, it gave Dana a set of blueballs he's been unable to shake...


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Majortom505 said:


> Fedor and White have opposite agenda's. Dana wants to promote the UFC and Fedor wants to promote M-1. \Fedor is at the end of his career and it trying to leverage some monstor paydays to retire on. If Dana REALLY wanted to, he could allow one of his HW's to fight outside the UFC to fight Fedor and then we would see. But he won't, becuse it's all about the UFC for Dana.
> Ferdor disappointed me when he shined on the UFC, to me it proved he isn't interested in fighting the best. but it's his business.


Dana White's agenda is pretty clear. He made it clear in his Joh Fitch statement.... he wants a fighter who will fight for a league and not himself.

It's no wonder he's always dogging great fighters that don't compete under a zuffa banner.


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## gosuu (Sep 23, 2007)

I really don't think Fedor is to blame as so much as it is his managers. Ultimately it is Fedor's choice, however, the managers and team have a very very heavy influence on his decision. Also, the whole reason you have a manager is so that you don't have to deal with this stuff and make these decisions. His managers want money and unless the UFC is willing to pay an absurd amount to have him, he'll probably be making more in Strikeforce/DREAM simply because they will sell him using that "#1 p4p" title. 

As for everyone who's saying "if he wants to be #1 he needs to fight the best" I'm sure he realizes that. Anyone who competes in anything knows this. At this point in his career though, past his reign as the king, I don't think he's hungry. Similar situation as Mirko except that he's still got skills and composure. Maybe he is hungry, I don't know. I just wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't. He's just enjoying life, why not fight lesser competition at this point and make tons of money all while the masses will believe you're the best that ever lived? Train less, more time with your wife and kids, more time to just enjoy yourself with less injury as well. Sounds like a plan to me!


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

The_Senator said:


> As for Dana White's speech, well, I still think that Fedor and him should meet in person and discuss everything. I assume it's possible. Speaking over the phone with M-1 people has already been proven futile. And Fedor said that he's never even spoken with Dana White which is not good.


Where have you been for the past year? Dana has tried it all. Fedor sits back while those M-1 goons demand co-promotion on the biggest stage of all. They think Fedor is bigger than any other fighter and any other organisation. Fedor doesn't speak because he's not the one who deals with negotiations, he has a MMA promotion above him who want their name alongisde the UFC's before Fedor will fight there.

Their demands are ridiculous and more about building their brand than Fedor fighting. That's fine, but don't expect to just get a fast track to that sort of exposure just because you have one fighter. It makes no sense, the UFC work night and day for 9 years to build their company and are expected to share the result with some small time promotion just because they manage 1 fighter.

If Fedor thinks that's more important than him fighting the other top heavyweights then so be it, but no one can blame Dana White.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

I can't believe the shit Dana gets. Ok he maybe lets his love of the UFC get in the way of whats best for MMA as a whole (wouldn't you if you were the president of it?!) But he is trying everything to get Fedor to the UFC and all he gets is insults for not letting it go!!


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## FatFreeMilk (Jan 22, 2010)

Playing devils advocate here, but during Fedor Vs Rogers, I didn't see much co-promotion materials on the screen or stadium. Sure I think I heard "brought to you by SF and M1 Global" or something like that, but I don't think M1 got much from that event. Correct me if I'm wrong by all means, gentlemen.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Dana wants everyone to forget about Fedor but can't keep his mouth shut about him lol.

"Fedor sucks, even though I stayed up days and nights talking to him and his management, I've flown all around the world to crazy places to get ahold of him, I've offered him more money than I've ever offered anyone, I've made him the most craziest, amazing deals that anyone can possibly make, I've never tried so hard in my entire life to sign one person, he has become my obsession (my own words)". HOWEVER, Fedor isn't as good as everyone says and is overrated."

Wait, why did/has/is Dana going through allllll this trouble, all this money, all this work, all this effort, EVERYTHING to sign Fedor, paying him double the amount of the most paid UFC fighters, if Fedor sucks or.. is completely, highly overrated?

The most logical, reasonable answer is that Dana is really upset he can't sign the best fighter in the world, and to justify it, is saying "he doesn't want to fight the best".

Fedor will fight anyone, he's always fought everyone, he's fought men much, much larger than he is, he's been there, done that, all styles and skill levels, all strengths and weaknesses, he's done it all.

He simply has millions and millions of dollars, is set with a nice contract at SF, has been in the business for a decade, and is just doing his own thing. 

Dana is right, though, he should just forget signing Fedor. Fedor is doing his own thing, he's done all he needs to do in this sport, let him be and let him do what he wants, you don't need Fedor, and Fedor doesn't need you, stop talking about him.


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Michael Carson said:


> Dana wants everyone to forget about Fedor but can't keep his mouth shut about him lol.
> 
> "Fedor sucks, even though I stayed up days and nights talking to him and his management, I've flown all around the world to crazy places to get ahold of him, I've offered him more money than I've ever offered anyone, I've made him the most craziest, amazing deals that anyone can possibly make, I've never tried so hard in my entire life to sign one person, he has become my obsession (my own words)". HOWEVER, Fedor isn't as good as everyone says and is overrated."
> 
> ...


That is absolutely spot on. To bad I have to spread my green around.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Fine, then he should get over it finally.


 
^^^THIS^^^


EDIT: and Michael Carsons Post is spot on.....


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Where have you been for the past year? Dana has tried it all. Fedor sits back while those M-1 goons demand co-promotion on the biggest stage of all. They think Fedor is bigger than any other fighter and any other organisation. Fedor doesn't speak because he's not the one who deals with negotiations, he has a MMA promotion above him who want their name alongisde the UFC's before Fedor will fight there.
> 
> Their demands are ridiculous and more about building their brand than Fedor fighting. That's fine, but don't expect to just get a fast track to that sort of exposure just because you have one fighter. It makes no sense, the UFC work night and day for 9 years to build their company and are expected to share the result with some small time promotion just because they manage 1 fighter.
> 
> If Fedor thinks that's more important than him fighting the other top heavyweights then so be it, but no one can blame Dana White.


I'm aware of M-1 demands. Dana White clearly said last year that he never got a chance to meet Fedor in person. This is what I'm talking about, meeting in person, not negotiating over the phone or with some representatives from M-1. Dana White talked about that meeting last June (2009), but it seems like it never happened for whatever reasons. I wish they finally did it. And I'm not blaming Dana White for anything, it's just a complete lack of interest from Fedor's side. I'm pretty sure that compromises could be made instead of one-sided nonnegotiable terms from M-1 which I wouldn't accept either if my name was Dana White and I was running UFC.


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## tlilly (Nov 13, 2009)

As Much as I would love to see Fedor fight in UFC, it is not worth the price of co-promotion. The last thing I want to see as a fan is UFC co-promoting. Yes, there are a lot of things that are wrong with UFC and Dana White. However, I would take UFC and Dana any day over boxing's model of co-promotions. I am the first to object against Dana's many shenanigans, but I'm glad that he makes fighters fight (besides from teammates).
The last thing I want is a pacquiao/mayweather situation in MMA.


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

Few things here firstly the only reason Dana is saying this or talks about Fedor is because journalists and reporter's are constantly asking Dana about Fedor. Secondly Dana did everything in his power to sign Fedor but M-1 is under the delusion that Fedor is bigger than the sport of MMA which is not true, in fact it's closer to the opposite, Fedor is barely relevant in 2010 MMA. This isn't 2005, North American UFC fans that aren't hardcore into MMA like this forum do not give 2 shits about Fedor and a good percentage probably havent even seen him fight or know who he is. 3 years ago I wanted to see Fedor in the UFC, in 2010 I could care less if he ever fights again. As far as him being the greatest of all time right now he has had the best career but in a year or two Anderson's career will eclipse Fedor's especially if he gains the 205 strap or fights at HW.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

FatFreeMilk said:


> Playing devils advocate here, but during Fedor Vs Rogers, I didn't see much co-promotion materials on the screen or stadium. Sure I think I heard "brought to you by SF and M1 Global" or something like that, but I don't think M1 got much from that event. Correct me if I'm wrong by all means, gentlemen.


Yep, and M-1 kicked up a fuss about it. That's why there has been a delay in him fighting again. They moaned that it was just presented as a SF show.

M-1 want it all, and they'll only get it in smaller promotions.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

i don't care about fedor in the ufc anymore because overeem is back in strikeforce an will uberknee him into retirement.

also in response to michael carson's post, dana wants to bring fedor into the UFC to see him lose, so he can say i told you so. signing fedor is a personel venture, it's not because the fans want him there


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

"If you want to be a big deal at your local strip club, fight on Showtime" as the great Chael Sonnen would say.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Nefilim777 said:


> If Fedor want's to be considered the best p4p in the world then he's gotta get his Rusky ass over to the UFC and fight the best, otherwise he'll retire as POSSIBLY the best p4p fighter in the world.


What people don't get is he doesn't care about legacy. He just wants to fight and some day retire to be with his family. He's in that age now where money talks and since he owns part of M-1 and they're one of the biggest organisations in Russia and Asia I bet he earns quite a lot of money. You can see it with Dan Henderson. He felt underappreciated in UFC and now he's fighting in the small leagues as Dana would say. That doesn't take anything away from him though because he has fought the best. Same can be said about Fedor if you think about it. People just get bitchy when it comes to Fedor because of his record and how he was supposedly never tested in his career.


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## Curly (Aug 20, 2007)

The UFC did all it could to get this guy. The fact is Dana is right on this one, if Fedor wanted to fight the best he would. He could have had almost anything he wanted from Dana-- fact is, he does not want to compete against the very best anymore. There are still a lot of fans who think Fedor can compete with the best, if he fights the best the truth will come out.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

This is just sad. I love Fedor as a fighter and he seems like a cool guy but his decisions are really annoying me lately. 

When he comes over he fights a guy that has fought only one really big name and that was a terrible fight for Arlovski. Then instead of taking on the opponent that is calling him out and is the champion of that organization... he fights Werdum... 
He does not want to fight the best and I do not understand it. 

I mean you can't even say he is fighting the best over there anymore because he won't fight Overeem...

And after that fight happens who challenges him?

Sad to say I see Fedor's career becoming really boring after the Werdum and then Overeem fights.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Curly said:


> if Fedor wanted to fight the best he would. He could have had almost anything he wanted from Dana.


Except the co-promotion of the the promotion for which he is a share holder (M-1) and the rights to remain active in other combat sports such as ***** Wrestling which is his first love.

I hate reading these Fedor threads, this really is the last time I ever click on any topic about Fedor, because all you read is the UFC proper-gander and lies that have been spread through the MMA community about why Fedor is not in the UFC.

If I was Fedor after the effort Dana White has put into discrediting his name based on nothing other than speculation and lies, I would just think "fcuk It" I am never going to work for that arrogant ass hole and just think fcuk the UFC.

As for you dumb asses who believe the lies seriously Fedor has nothing to prove to Dana White or any of you ass holes.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Except the co-promotion of the the promotion for which he is a share holder (M-1) and the rights to remain active in other combat sports such as ***** Wrestling which is his first love.
> 
> I hate reading these Fedor threads, this really is the last time I ever click on any topic about Fedor, because all you read is the UFC proper-gander and lies that have been spread through the MMA community about why Fedor is not in the UFC.
> 
> ...


Except that he can still fight the toughest competition. Yes if he were to retire right now no one could say anything about him not being great. But if you still want to fight and you have never lost and you are the best in the world. you need to be fighting the other best in the world fighters.

To take a step down in cometition is just so dishonorable to me it is not even funny. If he was fighting as champ in SF and taking on their toughest fighters then I would not have a problem with it. But he is ducking fights now and it is upsetting. NOt saying he is ducking the UFC fighters (though now that he is ducking Overeem it makes that train of thought more beleivable.), just that he is ducking the best in SF now too.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

The505Butcher said:


> Except that he can still fight the toughest competition. Yes if he were to retire right now no one could say anything about him not being great. But if you still want to fight and you have never lost and you are the best in the world. you need to be fighting the other best in the world fighters.
> 
> To take a step down in cometition is just so dishonorable to me it is not even funny. If he was fighting as champ in SF and taking on their toughest fighters then I would not have a problem with it. But he is ducking fights now and it is upsetting. NOt saying he is ducking the UFC fighters (though now that he is ducking Overeem it makes that train of thought more beleivable.), just that he is ducking the best in SF now too.


whatever, because fighting Herring, Mir and Couture is more credible than fighting Rogers, Werdum and Overeem, I know which set of opponents I think is the more dangerous and it sure as hell is not the opponents Brock has been given.

And for the record if Fedor beats Werdum then he will be fighting Overeem so your theory of him dodging the demolition man is not valid at all.

But none of what you say really means shit anyway, because like I said before, Fedor has nothing to prove to you or anyone.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> whatever, because fighting Herring, Mir and Couture is more credible than fighting Rogers, Werdum and Overeem, I know which set of opponents I think is the more dangerous and it sure as hell is not the opponents Brock has been given.
> 
> And for the record if Fedor beats Werdum then he will be fighting Overeem so your theory of him dodging the demolition man is not valid at all.
> 
> But none of what you say really means shit anyway, because like I said before, Fedor has nothing to prove to you or anyone.


See there is a difference. Brock is at the top and will fight the best his division has to offer. Fedor should be fighting at the top of SF right now and should be their champ. Instead he fights Rogers which is nowhere near as impresseve as couture, Mir, Herring, and is now fighting werdum instead of Overeem. That is what I call ducking when aa promotions best fighter by far is not fighting as the champ or the champ. I can understand when you have as many top fighters like the UFC and they can't have fighters fighting for the championship belt at the same time. But are you saying that Fedor has to work his way up to Overeem? HA!

And Fedor has nothing to prove to us? If he were retiring I would say that is true but every fighter at all times has to prove to us he is the best. Just because He has a great past does not mean he can go ahead and start fighting lower competition and it is perfectly OK.

This is like Anderson Silva fighting Bisping. Or GSP fighting Condit. Or Shougun fighting Hamil. They are opponents who pose problems. But no one in their right mind would think they would lose.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

The505Butcher said:


> See there is a difference. Brock is at the top and will fight the best his division has to offer. Fedor should be fighting at the top of SF right now and should be their champ. Instead he fights Rogers which is nowhere near as impresseve as couture, Mir, Herring, and is now fighting werdum instead of Overeem. That is what I call ducking when aa promotions best fighter by far is not fighting as the champ or the champ. I can understand when you have as many top fighters like the UFC and they can't have fighters fighting for the championship belt at the same time. But are you saying that Fedor has to work his way up to Overeem? HA!
> 
> And Fedor has nothing to prove to us? If he were retiring I would say that is true but every fighter at all times has to prove to us he is the best. Just because He has a great past does not mean he can go ahead and start fighting lower competition and it is perfectly OK.
> 
> This is like Anderson Silva fighting Bisping. Or GSP fighting Condit. Or Shougun fighting Hamil. They are opponents who pose problems. But no one in their right mind would think they would lose.


A few things to note about your post:

Fedor isn't fighting Overeem because Fedor was already contracted to fight Werdum before Overeem was set for a challenger. Roger's took Fedor's place becasue Fedor was already in talks/contract negotiations with Werdum before Overeem was ready to sign a contract. The Fedor vs. Werdum fight has been rescheduled once, for quite a long time in fact, which is why it seems that they haven't fought in forever. They were signed a long, long time ago to fight, though, before Overeem stepped in and needed a challenger. That's where Rogers came in.

Another thing to note, is that Werdum is a legit heavyweight and would give most guys in the UFC problems. Comparing Werdum at HW to Hamil at LHW or Bisping at MW is a joke. Werdum was only a fight away from fighting for the title in the UFC before being cut, and the whole reason he was cut was cause of a flash KO from JDS, back when no one knew who JDS was and Werdum completely underestimated him. If they fought again, Werdum would look for the takedown ASAP, where he's one of the most dangerous fighters in the world at HW.

As far as him needing to prove anything to anybody, he's been the best HW in the world for the last 7+ years, has been undefeated for over a decade, and has WON more fights than Brock, Carwin, and Cain have TOTAL fights (wins and losses) combined. He doesn't have anything to prove, and frankly, he really doesn't care what anyone thinks of him.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> A few things to note about your post:
> 
> Fedor isn't fighting Rogers because Fedor was already contracted to fight Werdum before Overeem was set for a challenger. Roger's took Fedor's place becasue Fedor was already in talks/contract negotiations with Werdum before Overeem was ready to sign a contract. The Fedor vs. Werdum fight has been rescheduled once, for quite a long time in fact, which is why it seems that they haven't fought in forever. They were signed a long, long time ago to fight, though, before Overeem stepped in and needed a challenger. That's where Rogers came in.
> 
> ...


Still does not matter. Overeem and Fedor should have been set up the moment he signed with Strike force. And he was not fighting him because of steroids? Didn't they still want to fight Barnet?

Liddel still needed to prove he is the best when he dominated. Silva still needs to prove he is the best. GSP still needs to prove he is the best. Every fighter no matter how dominate still has to prove they are the best in every single one of their fights.

Werdum does pose problems to a lot of people as I said in my post but he is not the top of their division. Do you really want to see Fedor fighting below where he should be fighting? I would understand if Fedor was the champ and Werdum woked his way up or was their only challenger... but this is not how I want to see Fedor fighting. I see no great threat posed to Fedor by Werdum.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

The505Butcher said:


> Still does not matter. Overeem and Fedor should have been set up the moment he signed with Strike force. And he was not fighting him because of steroids? Didn't they still want to fight Barnet?
> 
> Liddel still needed to prove he is the best when he dominated. Silva still needs to prove he is the best. GSP still needs to prove he is the best. Every fighter no matter how dominate still has to prove they are the best in every single one of their fights.
> 
> Werdum does pose problems to a lot of people as I said in my post but he is not the top of their division. Do you really want to see Fedor fighting below where he should be fighting? I would understand if Fedor was the champ and Werdum woked his way up or was their only challenger... but this is not how I want to see Fedor fighting. I see no great threat posed to Fedor by Werdum.


What do yo mean it does not matter? Fedor and Werdum were contracted when Overeem came into picture. Their fight was already set up and ready to go. How does that not matter? Fedor was not free to fight Overeem when he came back to SF, he could not fight him or make any sort of deal. Overeem is fighting Rogers becasue that's what was there when Overeem came back. After Fedor beats Werdum, he'll be offered the contract to fight Overeem and he'll take it. He's never ducked a fight, ever.

All of the guys you mentioned don't even have what is close to the legacy that Fedor has. Hell, GSP, Shogun, and BJ, 3 of the UFC's most dominant fighters of all time, all state, to this day, that Fedor is the greatest fighter in the world. Do you see them complaining about Fedor fighting Werdum?

Werdum poses a huge threat to anyone on the ground. If this fight hits the mat, then it's anyone's game. He's not the top fighter at HW, no, but is he so far below guys like Carwin and Cain? No, he's not. If he was in the UFC, he'd be in the mix with Mir, Carwin, cain, JDS, etc. He wouldn't be down there with Kongo or anything like that. He's a serious, legit, solid HW that poses problems for anyone, including Fedor.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> What do yo mean it does not matter? Fedor and Werdum were contracted when Overeem came into picture. Their fight was already set up and ready to go. How does that not matter? Fedor was not free to fight Overeem when he came back to SF, he could not fight him or make any sort of deal. Overeem is fighting Rogers becasue that's what was there when Overeem came back. After Fedor beats Werdum, he'll be offered the contract to fight Overeem and he'll take it. He's never ducked a fight, ever.
> 
> All of the guys you mentioned don't even have what is close to the legacy that Fedor has. Hell, GSP, Shogun, and BJ, 3 of the UFC's most dominant fighters of all time, all state, to this day, that Fedor is the greatest fighter in the world. Do you see them complaining about Fedor fighting Werdum?
> 
> Werdum poses a huge threat to anyone on the ground. If this fight hits the mat, then it's anyone's game. He's not the top fighter at HW, no, but is he so far below guys like Carwin and Cain? No, he's not. If he was in the UFC, he'd be in the mix with Mir, Carwin, cain, JDS, etc. He wouldn't be down there with Kongo or anything like that. He's a serious, legit, solid HW that poses problems for anyone, including Fedor.


I KNOW HE IS THE BEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD!!!!!!

I am not saying he is not. YOU in your very own words said that Fedor and Werdum were still talking and in the process of signing when Overeem came into the picture. That fight should have immediately been scrapped and Fedor should have been signed to fight their champion. He is by far there best fighter except with the possibility of Overeem and even then I do not think Overeem can beat Fedor. How does a champion in their division not fight the champion of the world?

This is MMA and everyone poses a threat to everyone. like I said in my post. My problem with this fight is that I do not think Werdum poses as big of a threat as Overeem. And I strongly disagree with your opinion of him being better than Cain and Carwin. I do not think either fighter would have much difficulty beat Werdum but that is my opinion. 

You say Fedor has this huge legacy (that I agree with...) But then you say it is ok for him to be fighting below the very top...? I don't understand it.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

The505Butcher said:


> I KNOW HE IS THE BEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD!!!!!!
> 
> I am not saying he is not. YOU in your very own words said that Fedor and Werdum were still talking and in the process of signing when Overeem came into the picture. That fight should have immediately been scrapped and Fedor should have been signed to fight their champion. He is by far there best fighter except with the possibility of Overeem and even then I do not think Overeem can beat Fedor. How does a champion in their division not fight the champion of the world?
> 
> ...


He couldn't fight Overeem, he was already contracted to Werdum. By "talks and negotiations" I mean already done, figured out, both parties saying "yeah, let's do this". The fight was already in the articles on mma outlets "Fedor vs. Werdum". It takes a lot to scrap a contract and fight negotiations to focus on a whole new fight. Werdum was already promised the fight, Fedor had already agreed. It was done, set, ready to go. Overeem got Rogers, the only person who was open and ready for a fight.

Your opinion is he wouldn't beat Cain and Carwin, my opinion is that he can, so really not much to say here.

As for his legacy, his legacy (something that is there for people to remember their greatness, what they have done in the past, what they will be remembered for) is amazing, better than GSP, Anderson, or any other P4P fighter to this day. You said he doesn't have anything to prove. I say, he's prove more than enough for the last 10 years to be able to go off and do as he pleases. His P4P ranking will die, EVERYONE'S P4P ranking dies, you fight less and less, you retire, you go off and fight other guys who aren't as high in the ranking. Once you reach the point in your career where you have the greatest legacy in all of the sport, been in it for over a DECADE, undefeated and have the longest win streak in all of MMA, you have the right to dwindle down and go do whatever the hell you wish.

You can say he's not #1 P4P right now, and that's fine by me, but the fact is, he doesn't have anything to prove to anyone, he's proved himself more than any other fighter ever has for the last decade. He has all the right in the world to go fight whomever he pleases wherever he pleases.

your point of "all fighters at all times have to prove to us their the best" just doesn't flaot here, he's already done that countless times, he's at a point in his career where the last thing this man needs to do is prove anything to anybody.


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## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

Michael Carson said:


> He couldn't fight Overeem, he was already contracted to Werdum. By "talks and negotiations" I mean already done, figured out, both parties saying "yeah, let's do this". The fight was already in the articles on mma outlets "Fedor vs. Werdum". It takes a lot to scrap a contract and fight negotiations to focus on a whole new fight. Werdum was already promised the fight, Fedor had already agreed. It was done, set, ready to go. Overeem got Rogers, the only person who was open and ready for a fight.


Actually what Overeem is referring to is that M-1 declined to fight Overeem for Fedor's _next_ fight (saying that he was a steroid cow) and is pursuing Josh Barnett instead (who unlikely Overeem, was actually suspended for doping).

...

As far as Dana talking about throwing crazy money at Fedor, he's the same guy that said Affliction and EliteXC threw crazy money around and that boxings pay days are ridiculous. Just like he did with Henderson, I wouldn't be surprised that he's lowballing Fedor and claiming the opposite.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

astrallite said:


> Actually what Overeem is referring to is that M-1 declined to fight Overeem for Fedor's _next_ fight (saying that he was a steroid cow) and is pursuing Josh Barnett instead (who unlikely Overeem, was actually suspended for doping).
> 
> ...
> 
> As far as Dana talking about throwing crazy money at Fedor, he's the same guy that said Affliction and EliteXC threw crazy money around and that boxings pay days are ridiculous. Just like he did with Henderson, I wouldn't be surprised that he's lowballing Fedor and claiming the opposite.


I'm sure Fedor will fight Overeem for his next fight. Overeem is the only one left in SF for Fedor to fight, and if by chance he actaully does fight Josh, Josh was ranked the #2 guy in the world before he got suspended, and everyone has wanted to see that fight for a long, long time.

Dana said he offered him more than any other UFC fighter, and I could believe it, juding from how much he talks about him and how bad he wants him.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

The truth is nobody knows shit about the whole co-promote deal. We've already established Dana is juts acting like a spoilt kid by completely contradicting himself. ( See Carson post )

But, I want to talk about the so called co-promotion. Apart from the the media snippets ( mainly from Dana ) about what was said and who asked for what. These snippets dont mean shite. You cant sellotape them together in any old order and fill in the gaps with crayons before announcing "Fedor and M-1 are a bunch of crooks"

I read one interview by M-1 that ever spoke about this co-promotion thing. If only I still had the link, we could put this crap to bed. In the interview, they basically said that the co-promotion was specifically for their regions. M-1 wanted to make sure that their brand had strong visibility in these regions. Eastern areas mainly. In a nutshell, Regions the UFC dont have to begin with! They in no way wanted to have UFC & M-1 side by side on all the western purchased PPV's. I would imagine that most of us would have barely noticed the co-promotion.

The UFC expected to sign Fedor, and then completely take advantage of all the work he and M-1 have done making Fedor a name in the east. Lets not forget, UFC have signed with those Abu-Dhabi fools who have links throughout eastern media now. Imagine if they had Fedor right now?! Imagine the first UFC show in a popular eastern area featuring Fedor?! BIG BIG DOLLAR.

So, feck the UFC. Feck Dana. M-1 have been working in Russia and around the area for years and years building up their brand. The UFC want to piggy back M-1 into the region without paying for the ride.

I would love to see Fedor in the UFC, but you know what? I am a worm compared to him. Who am I to suggest anything?


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> He couldn't fight Overeem, he was already contracted to Werdum. By "talks and negotiations" I mean already done, figured out, both parties saying "yeah, let's do this". The fight was already in the articles on mma outlets "Fedor vs. Werdum". It takes a lot to scrap a contract and fight negotiations to focus on a whole new fight. Werdum was already promised the fight, Fedor had already agreed. It was done, set, ready to go. Overeem got Rogers, the only person who was open and ready for a fight.
> 
> Your opinion is he wouldn't beat Cain and Carwin, my opinion is that he can, so really not much to say here.
> 
> ...


OK you keep saying that I think he is not the #1 PfP fighter or I don't think he is great when in every single one of my posts I have said he is...

My point makes clear sense in that since Fedor is the Wamma champion and on the top of everyone's list he has to fight the top and the best... or would you not like that?

How can you say that he has nothing left to prove? He is still fighting. He has to prove he can still fight and he has to put down the next top opponent until he retires or is beaten. To say otherwise is just incredibly foolish to me. 

If it was already signed then I have less of a problem with it but I remember it still being under negotiation when Overeem came back but I do not remember clearly. It still should have been him fighting their champion anyways. They should have done everything possible to get Overeem able to fight Fedor.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

astrallite said:


> As far as Dana talking about throwing crazy money at Fedor, he's the same guy that said Affliction and EliteXC threw crazy money around and that boxings pay days are ridiculous. Just like he did with Henderson, I wouldn't be surprised that he's lowballing Fedor and claiming the opposite.



I think Dana is willing to pay Fedor big because he believes he will give him 1mil + PPV buys. I don't actually think Fedor is as bigger draw as some other fighters that Dana could get cheaper.
Plus it's a pride thing, Dana will not want to retire and have to say that he never brought Fedor to the UFC.


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## Dream-On-101 (Jun 4, 2009)

The whole Fedor thing is SUCH a divisive issue. The truth is that we as fans more than likely know nowhere near the full story about what is going on and being said between Dana and M1-Global. Maybe Dana is right and they are a 'crazy Russians' demanding way over and above what they can fairly claim? Then again, maybe Dana is just completely exaggerating and it is infact the UFC who is being unreasonable? Who knows?

The facts are simple. Fedor does not need to fight in the UFC, he is a very wealthy individual and most if not all will sing his praises as the greatest of all time. There is no doubt in my mind that if Brock left the UFC tomorrow, Fedor would fight him. I believe he will fight anyone - i also believe he is dead against being held a contractual prisoner by the UFC (if indeed those are the facts as he sees them).

I also am somewhat doubtful that in order to cement his legacy as the greatest of all time, it is dependant on him fighting within the UFC for some people? He beat the best several times throughout his career, and suddenly this does not matter? Who exactly are these fighters Fedor must fight? Cain, JDS, Carwin, Brock are all incredibly raw (though undeniably talented) in MMA. 

Fedor will beat Werdum, match up against Overeem, then probably leave Strikeforce and end up fighting Barnett (in my opinion). Those three fights are far more impressive to me than any three he would take on in the UFC. 

I'd like to see him fight Brock as much as the next guy, but i find it insulting when people incinuate his legacy will be in question if he does not. That is a ridiculous view point.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> "If you want to be a big deal at your local strip club, fight on Showtime" as the great Chael Sonnen would say.


I wish Sonnen would STFU and fight.


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

Who would wanna go to a place where the boss wants you to lose .. aand nobody can tell me that everything would be fair.. 
Illegal substances are still around (ones which will be visible on drug tests or known in 10 years or so) .. and Dana looks just like that kind of boss who would force the guy who would fight Fedor to take those (anything to see Fedor lose and those substances are just in case Fedor is stubb0rn and doesn't wanna lose) ..

Best thing is to keep his name outta your mouth white.. you sound like a broken record.. say something nice about Fedor.. ever tryed those tactics to get something you want.. ha?..


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Ivan said:


> Who would wanna go to a place where the boss wants you to lose .. aand nobody can tell me that everything would be fair..
> Illegal substances are still around (ones which will be visible on drug tests or known in 10 years or so) .. and Dana looks just like that kind of boss who would force the guy who would fight Fedor to take those (anything to see Fedor lose and those substances are just in case Fedor is stubb0rn and doesn't wanna lose) ..
> 
> Best thing is to keep his name outta your mouth white.. you sound like a broken record.. say something nice about Fedor.. ever tryed those tactics to get something you want.. ha?..


You're saying that Dana White would force Fedors opponents to take PED's that won't be discovered for another ten years? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense:confused03: 

Maybe Dana isn't too far offbase when he mentions Fedor lunatics


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

Ivan said:


> Who would wanna go to a place where the boss wants you to lose .. aand nobody can tell me that everything would be fair..
> Illegal substances are still around (ones which will be visible on drug tests or known in 10 years or so) .. and Dana looks just like that kind of boss who would force the guy who would fight Fedor to take those (anything to see Fedor lose and those substances are just in case Fedor is stubb0rn and doesn't wanna lose) ..
> 
> Best thing is to keep his name outta your mouth white.. you sound like a broken record.. say something nice about Fedor.. ever tryed those tactics to get something you want.. ha?..


I'd pay to watch White or ANYONE else try to force Brock to take something he didn't want to take.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Ivan said:


> Who would wanna go to a place where the boss wants you to lose .. aand nobody can tell me that everything would be fair..
> Illegal substances are still around (ones which will be visible on drug tests or known in 10 years or so) .. and Dana looks just like that kind of boss who would force the guy who would fight Fedor to take those (anything to see Fedor lose and those substances are just in case Fedor is stubb0rn and doesn't wanna lose) ..
> 
> Best thing is to keep his name outta your mouth white.. you sound like a broken record.. say something nice about Fedor.. ever tryed those tactics to get something you want.. ha?..


Wow... because that is what Dana promotes. Dana is this huge cheater who wants Fedor to lose so badly he would have someone...(who would most likely be Brock) who is already twice the size and strength of Fedor... take substances to make him stronger... that makes it all clear now.

BTW I do not think Brock is the only one who could fight Fedor I am just saying that is the fight that a lot of people want to see.

I would rather see Cain fight Fedor once Cain gets a little more solid competition.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

Dana's so full of shit wow. Signing Fedor means taking a step back from a league organization with all the power, Dana doesn't want that. Why doesn't Dana elaborate on the political reasons behind the signings...? He'd rather say Fedor doesn't want to fight the best so the average viewer looks at Fedor as a *****, when the real reason he's not fighting the best is because the UFC wont co-promote, and would rather have all the profit and power themselves than share it just once for the fans. Bunch of selfish liars running the UFC, it's ridiculous, UFC will crumble if it keeps up this BS marketing gimmick they have going on. They're trying to brainwash their athletes into being WWE style entertainers it's ridiculous.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

ptw said:


> Dana's so full of shit wow. Signing Fedor means taking a step back from a league organization with all the power, Dana doesn't want that. Why doesn't Dana elaborate on the political reasons behind the signings...? He'd rather say Fedor doesn't want to fight the best so the average viewer looks at Fedor as a *****, when the real reason he's not fighting the best is because the UFC wont co-promote, and would rather have all the profit and power themselves than share it just once for the fans. Bunch of selfish liars running the UFC, it's ridiculous, UFC will crumble if it keeps up this BS marketing gimmick they have going on. They're trying to brainwash their athletes into being WWE style entertainers it's ridiculous.



Yep, strikeforce and M-1 global are going to rule the MMA world. Delusional is what you are.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

RustyRenegade said:


> Yep, strikeforce and M-1 global are going to rule the MMA world. Delusional is what you are.


Pretty much.

I like how he tries to make Dana seem like a selfish person when Dana has done pretty much everything he can do besides co-promote which is the most foolish decision the UFC could make.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

The505Butcher said:


> OK you keep saying that I think he is not the #1 PfP fighter or I don't think he is great when in every single one of my posts I have said he is...
> 
> My point makes clear sense in that since Fedor is the Wamma champion and on the top of everyone's list he has to fight the top and the best... or would you not like that?
> 
> ...


The whole point of me bringing up the P4P thing was an example of "even if he starts to lose his P4P status by not fighting the highest ranked guys, He's held that spot for 7+ freaking years, does he REALLY have to prove anything?". It wasn't singling you out or any such thing.

If he didn't already have the greatest legacy in the sport, by far, and was 28 years old, not going on 34, and still had a lot to accomplish, yeah, he'd be in the "you have to prove you're the best if you want to be the best" group. Fedor, however, has been doing this for over a decade, has the greatest legacy to ever grace the sport thus far, is 34 years old, is undefeated and has fought all styles, all skills, all strenghts, all weaknesses, knocked guys out, submitted guys, went full title length decisions, fought guys much larger than him, even a guy who was smaller than him. He's done it all, every, single, tiny, little, thing you can do in this sport, he's done it. When I say he has nothing to prove, I mean, he's at a place in his career where he has proved all that he can.

If Fedor were to retire right now, he'd go down as the greatest heavyweight of all time, and in many eyes, the greatest mixed martial artist of all time, and no one would be saying "he had more to prove". He's at that place in his career right now. Let him go do his own thing, he's 34 years old and has been fighting for over a decade, he's more than earned his right to get whatever contract he wants to take and fight whoever he wants to fight, without peole saying "he has more to prove". He's proved it for 10+ years, let him be. 

They had already agreed to fight and there were already articles on mma outlets stating "Fedor vs. Werdum", etc. It was already so far along that they would have to scrap the fight, scrap the hype, scrap the contract, scrap everything. If that fight would have taken place when it was originally scheduled, then Fedor and Overeem would already have a contract signed and they would be fighting. However, Fedor got hurt and the fight was postponed for months, which results in Overeem needing an oppoenent, they gave him Rogers, casue he was what was there at the time. Fedor and Werdum were already set to fight.


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## LiteGladiator (Jun 22, 2010)

Fedor is overrated IMO, he was amazing back in his pride days, but his last two fights were extremely unimpressive against two sup-par opponents. I am not interested in him even getting into the UFC anymore.


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## A Random Person (Oct 15, 2009)

Isn't fedor a greybeard by now? There are now more impressive fighters, and with more interest in the sport there will be younger prodigies that will take his place.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

RustyRenegade said:


> Yep, strikeforce and M-1 global are going to rule the MMA world. Delusional is what you are.


What? All that's stopping Fedor from fighting is the UFC giving into his demands. If they wanted they could put him up against Lesnar first fight and co-promote that one single super fight. Unfortunately, Dana isn't confident enough to do that because if Fedor wins it questions the integrity of a league based system. It raises the question, could fighters promote their own fights with their own management? That's the last thing Dana wants, and I completely understand why he wont give into their demands. On the other hand, Fedor has nothing to gain from coming into this league other than pleasing the same ignorant fans who boo when the fight hits the ground, or when fighters like Rashad implement a gameplan correctly to win a fight. Anyone who is somewhat educated could put all the information about Fedor together and realize he's going for huge pay days right now, like boxer's do. Fight politics kiddies, it's all it is. 



The505Butcher said:


> I like how he tries to make Dana seem like a selfish person when Dana has done pretty much everything he can do besides co-promote which is the most foolish decision the UFC could make.


Dana is selfish you nut, he's the president of a league that pays headliners jack shit, all you fools listen to all the BS he feeds everybody when he's just a damn good promoter. The UFC is a business and all it cares about is maximizing profits. They can afford to pay their fighters a lot more than they are, but why should they when what they pay them now is more than enough in their eyes? Fedor doesn't deny being a greedy piece of crap, do you think he fights for free? He fights to make money, this is his career. It's on Dana to give into his demands, if he doesn't want to then that sucks for him, Fedor isn't dodging fights he's doing what's best for his career.


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## FatFreeMilk (Jan 22, 2010)

Hiro said:


> Yep, and M-1 kicked up a fuss about it. That's why there has been a delay in him fighting again. They moaned that it was just presented as a SF show.
> 
> M-1 want it all, and they'll only get it in smaller promotions.


In that case I've little sympathy for M1.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

ptw said:


> What? All that's stopping Fedor from fighting is the UFC giving into his demands. If they wanted they could put him up against Lesnar first fight and co-promote that one single super fight. Unfortunately, Dana isn't confident enough to do that because if Fedor wins it questions the integrity of a league based system. It raises the question, could fighters promote their own fights with their own management? That's the last thing Dana wants, and I completely understand why he wont give into their demands. On the other hand, Fedor has nothing to gain from coming into this league other than pleasing the same ignorant fans who boo when the fight hits the ground, or when fighters like Rashad implement a gameplan correctly to win a fight. Anyone who is somewhat educated could put all the information about Fedor together and realize he's going for huge pay days right now, like boxer's do. Fight politics kiddies, it's all it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Dana is selfish you nut, he's the president of a league that pays headliners jack shit, all you fools listen to all the BS he feeds everybody when he's just a damn good promoter. The UFC is a business and all it cares about is maximizing profits. They can afford to pay their fighters a lot more than they are, but why should they when what they pay them now is more than enough in their eyes? Fedor doesn't deny being a greedy piece of crap, do you think he fights for free? He fights to make money, this is his career. It's on Dana to give into his demands, if he doesn't want to then that sucks for him, Fedor isn't dodging fights he's doing what's best for his career.


Yeah but your making it sound like it is all on Dana to give into Fedor's demands. When Dana offered more money for Fedor to fight than any fighter has been offered, said he could continue doing *****, said he could have an instant title fight(if I remember correctly), and the only thing that is stopping this is that M-1 wants to co promote. Then you say that all Dana has to do is give in and not be selfish when Fedor is being selfish over the same exact thing... 

This falls on both their shoulders and Fedor will not fight in the UFC because niether is going to break on that issue unless UFC suddenly bombs or Fedor has nowhere else to fight.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Dana also said that Fedor could wear all the M-l apparel he wanted and even have an M-1 corner, backdrop, poster, thingy. That's more exposure to serious fans than anything he'll do with Strikeforce imo.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Nefilim777 said:


> If Fedor want's to be considered the best p4p in the world then he's gotta get his Rusky ass over to the UFC and fight the best, otherwise he'll retire as POSSIBLY the best p4p fighter in the world.


Anderson took that crown from him already. He's no longer the #1 p4p fighter in the world. Does he have the skill to be the #1 p4p? Quite possibly. But he's not fighting the right talent to prove it. "#1 P4P" is NOT a static title, it must be constantly proven.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Don't know why but i believe Dana on this one and i kinda agree with him. I think he needs to defend his organisation, the UFC, wich he helped become the biggest in the world.
It would be a stupid move from his part to let M-1 get co-promote. From a managerial and finnancial point of view, it wouldn't make any sense and would be considered a stupid move. Why should others bennefit from your work and cash in.

At least pls let Fedor vs Overeem happen.
Other than that...i don't think he will fight in the UFC.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

TraMaI said:


> Anderson took that crown from him already. He's no longer the #1 p4p fighter in the world. Does he have the skill to be the #1 p4p? Quite possibly. But he's not fighting the right talent to prove it. "#1 P4P" is NOT a static title, it must be constantly proven.


I tend to agree, but the thing that changes things when it comes to Fedor is he usually fights heavier guys. If he was to only fight guys his own weight, i.e 230 pounds, I think he'd be invincible. Cain would have something to say about that as would JDS, but I think when we talk about P4P we need to consider Fedor's natural size. Fighting Lesnar and Carwin is like Silva fighting JDS. In fact, Silva's natural weight might be well in the 200s and not that far from Fedor, so it could be like Silva fighting Lesnar and Carwin.

But of course, this is part hypothetical and I recognise Anderson has beat every MW worth beating over a long period of time, often in devastating fashion. He is easily the best p4p fighter. My point is even though we may acknowledge Fedor has the talent to become p4p best, we should consider that he may not have to fight Lesnar and Carwin to theoretically be so, if we apply logic regarding weight classes.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> Anderson took that crown from him already. He's no longer the #1 p4p fighter in the world. Does he have the skill to be the #1 p4p? Quite possibly. But he's not fighting the right talent to prove it. "#1 P4P" is NOT a static title, it must be constantly proven.


Art, I disagree. Franklin, Cote, Irvine, Leites, Maia and Forrest. Is that really a better collection of names then Hunt, Lindland, Choi, Silvia, Arlovski and Rogers? Ok, it is a little better... but not by much.

If we are going by recent records, then GSP stands alone. Hughes, Serra, Fitch, Penn, Alves and Hardy is his last 6. Much more impressive than any of the other contenders level of competition.

for the record, I rate Anderson #1. Not because of records, but because he is jedi and I love him.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> Art, I disagree. Franklin, Cote, Irvine, Leites, Maia and Forrest. Is that really a better collection of names then Hunt, Lindland, Choi, Silvia, Arlovski and Rogers? Ok, it is a little better... but not by much.
> 
> If we are going by recent records, then GSP stands alone. Hughes, Serra, Fitch, Penn, Alves and Hardy is his last 6. Much more impressive than any of the other contenders level of competition.
> 
> for the record, I rate Anderson #1. Not because of records, but because he is jedi and I love him.


But he's already beaten Henderson, Marquardt and Franklin, 3 of the top middleweights. Fedor hasn't already beaten 3 of the current top 5 heavyweights, not even close.

I also take how convincing the wins are into consideration, and Anderson has barely taken a solid punch let alone ever been hurt in his last dozen or more fights.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Hiro said:


> But he's already beaten Henderson, Marquardt and Franklin, 3 of the top middleweights. Fedor hasn't already beaten 3 of the current top 5 heavyweights, not even close.


I don't disagree. I was responding to Tra's comment regards recent records and levels of competition. The point I was making is that the MW division is currently so poor by comparison that's its difficult making an argument for Silva being #1 based on his *recent* record, hence why I mentioned the last 6 fights. The next best MW's are not even remotely challenging.

Without a shadow of a doubt, if one fighter emerges from the Lesnar, Carwin, JDS and Cain melee triumphant, that fighter will become the new P4P #1. I dont think it will happen though. I think all of them will lose to at least one of the others and so keep this P4P argument going on for some time yet!


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Hiro said:


> *I tend to agree, but the thing that changes things when it comes to Fedor is he usually fights heavier guys. If he was to only fight guys his own weight, i.e 230 pounds, I think he'd be invincible.* Cain would have something to say about that as would JDS, but I think when we talk about P4P we need to consider Fedor's natural size. Fighting Lesnar and Carwin is like Silva fighting JDS. In fact, Silva's natural weight might be well in the 200s and not that far from Fedor, so it could be like Silva fighting Lesnar and Carwin.


But thats his own fault! Fedor could easily make 205 and be a well sized LHW. He doesn't have to fight on a size disadvantage.
You are right that it is very impressive to fight guys 40-50lbs heavier then you. But with doing so, Fedor fights in the weakest devision in the whole MMA world.

It equals everything actually.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

As much as I hate p4p discussions.... someone said p4p isn't static and I have to ask..... is Mohammad Ali the greatest p4p boxer ever?


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> But thats his own fault! Fedor could easily make 205 and be a well sized LHW. He doesn't have to fight on a size disadvantage.
> You are right that it is very impressive to fight guys 40-50lbs heavier then you. But with doing so, Fedor fights in the weakest devision in the whole MMA world.
> 
> It equals everything actually.


I wasn;t necessarily saying it was a fault, just how it is. As for the HW division being the weakest, in terms of depth definitely. But today, when you consider the top 5, I think the skill level is comparable to any other division and in p4p talks that's all that matters. Fedor, Lesnar, Carwin, Cain, JDS... as well as Mir, Overeem, Bigfoot etc. The top of the division is elite in every sense, and any one of those guys who can beat all the others would be a p4p top 3 along with Anderson and GSP.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Hiro said:


> I wasn;t necessarily saying it was a fault, just how it is. As for the HW division being the weakest, in terms of depth definitely. But today, when you consider the top 5, I think the skill level is comparable to any other division and in p4p talks that's all that matters. Fedor, Lesnar, Carwin, Cain, JDS... as well as Mir, Overeem, Bigfoot etc. The top of the division is elite in every sense, and any one of those guys who can beat all the others would be a p4p top 3 along with Anderson and GSP.


True! But Fedor doesn't even fight in the number 1 promotion, but still keeps fighting in the weakest devision MMA has to offer.

And I don't think you can ever rank Brock, Carwin in any kind of top 5 p4p even if they go 20-0 in there next fights. Cause we just don't know if there size helps them to win fights. With GSP we know it's all skill what he does. But with Brock we will never know how much he needs his weight. These guys should be far far away from any kind of p4p list.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Hiro said:


> But he's already beaten Henderson, Marquardt and Franklin, 3 of the top middleweights. Fedor hasn't already beaten 3 of the current top 5 heavyweights, not even close.
> 
> *I also take how convincing the wins are into consideration, and Anderson has barely taken a solid punch let alone ever been hurt in his last dozen or more fights*.


This is telling the truth. The way he has beaten his opponents is what makes him No.1 P4P.
It's not his fault thet the level of competition at his weight class isn't that high. That's the reason he has fought at LHW 2 times. 
What i think about Fedor: he became P4P best in the world some years ago, when he was beating/destroying his opponents. At that time, his opponents were considered to be the best in the world...after him of course. So it made a lot of sense to have him as the best P4P in the world, even though he wasn't fighting the best in the UFC, there was that mass-agreemeent between fans and specialists that he is the best.
But as time passed, he beat everyone and he was left without serious competition. His wins in Affliction weren't that impressive, because his opponents weren't considered TOP level...let's be honest. Plus: Rodgers beat Arlovski wurse than Fedor did and Mercer beat Sylvia wurse than fedor did. That raised other question marks. If the fight against Barnett would have happened, i think it would have proven some things and answered some questions. Meanwhile in the UFC new heavyweights burst onto the scene: Brock, Carwin, Cain, JDS, Mir made a comeback...
Now he is fighting Werdum, a guy who was destroyed by JDS in his first fight in the UFC. That doesn't sound so good: it's like Brazil in soccer, taking on some teams like: Jamaica, Barbados, Vietnam, The Vanuatu Islands, Trinidad Tobago or other amateurs..beating them hard...while avoiding playing big teams like Spain, Italy, Germany or Argentina (nice comparison huh?!).

I think Fedor is one of the most skilled fighters in the world, possibly the most skilled fighter ever. But he needs to prove his skills against tough opponents and at this moment those opponents aren't in Strikeforce, except Overeem.
As long as he isn't willing to fight in the UFC...there's always gonna be a BIG question mark reguarding his status.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> True! But Fedor doesn't even fight in the number 1 promotion, but still keeps fighting in the weakest devision MMA has to offer.
> 
> And I don't think you can ever rank Brock, Carwin in any kind of top 5 p4p even if they go 20-0 in there next fights. Cause we just don't know if there size helps them to win fights. With GSP we know it's all skill what he does. But with Brock we will never know how much he needs his weight. These guys should be far far away from any kind of p4p list.


I didn't say Fedor is fighting best, it's all ifs and buts. 

And I also didn't say Brock etc are top 5 p4p, I said top 5 heavyweights.

As for your comments regarding Brock, I think you're mistaken. Brock is a legit athlete and very technical. When he wasn't technical, he got subbed out quicktime. I think what you're saying is completely unfair. If he fights other super heavies, you can't blame his success on weight. His ability stems from his freak like athleticism and wrestling ability, that's a whole lot more than a size advantage.

Anyway, the Lesnar thing is a separate debate. But I think you completely misunderstood what I was even saying.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Hiro said:


> I didn't say Fedor is fighting best, it's all ifs and buts.
> 
> And I also didn't say Brock etc are top 5 p4p, I said top 5 heavyweights.
> 
> ...


No I don't think I missunderstood you here. You said that any of the Heavyweights could make p4p top 3 wich I disagree with strongly. Cause like I said we will never know if Brock would really be so dominating at a lower weight let's say LHW or MW. Unless he doesn't drop down to 230 at least and shows us how much skill there really is, he has no business being in the top 10-15 p4p. Same goes for Carwin! With GSP or Anderson however we know that these guys would be world beaters if they had the frame of a guy like Lesnar. But could Lesnar even make it into the second round with GSP at WW?? We can not answer that because of the weight. But with GSP we can tell, that he would play with the HW devision if he had Lesnar's frame.

You were talking about p4p here!

Btw. The p4p was introduced to compare the lighter guys to the Heavys. The lower guys like JDS, Cain, Fedor is a different story. Cause there we know that they are really winning there fights because of there skill and not there weight.



Hiro said:


> I wasn;t necessarily saying it was a fault, just how it is. As for the HW division being the weakest, in terms of depth definitely. But today, when you consider the top 5, I think the skill level is comparable to any other division *and in p4p talks* that's all that matters. Fedor, Lesnar, Carwin, Cain, JDS... as well as Mir, Overeem, Bigfoot etc. The top of the division is elite in every sense, and any one of *those guys who can beat all the others would be a p4p top 3 along with Anderson and GSP.*


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## chuck fan (russ) (Nov 13, 2006)

You can't honestly say Fedor isn't the top heavyweight fighter in the world because he's not in the ufc. Firstly lets look at the ufc's current top dogs in heavyweight, Brock Lesnar currently the champion in the ufc whose record is 4-1 which is far from a proven record in which hes beat a back from retirement Randy Couture, Heath Herring and Frank Mir(in a second attempt after being defeated the first fight via submission). Shane Carwin whose record is better at 12-0 but his only two notable fights are against Frank Mir and Gabriel Gonzaga so has hardly had a tough line of opposition in his career. Then we have Junior Dos Santos who holds wins over the no longer performing Gabriel Gonzaga, a far past his prime Mirko Flipovic and the not so awe inspiring Werdum who for some reason is getting a fight with Fedor. Then you have Cain Velasquez whose notable wins are against past their prime Big Nog, Ben Rothwell and a win against not very well rounded like a turtle on his back Cheick Kongo. Thats my breakdown of the top ufc heavyweights at the moment and I dont understand what these guys have that Fedor Emelianenko hasn't beaten better of before.

Lets look at in comparison who fedor has defeated in his career with a should have been perfect undefeated career apart from some rule in 'Rings' that declared if somebody is cut they lose regardless that this strike was actually an illegal strike. His record stand at 32 wins 1 loss and 1 no contest. In his career he's fought and won against fighters such as Ricardo Arona, Renato Sobral, Heath Herring, Antonio Nogueira twice, Mark Coleman twice, Kevin Randleman, Mirko Cro Cop, Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski. Many of these fighters such as Antonio Nogueira and Mirko Cro Cop were in strong form when he faced them and still he overcome them both. Tim Sylvia was just getting passed his prime when they met up but the way that Fedor put away Big Tim is impressive and nobody else could have put somebody as exerienced as Tim away that easily. Andrei Arlovski who when he met Fedor was still considered a top 10 heavyweight in the world who Fedor put away. Fedor Emelianenko cant be questioned or compared as inferior because he wont go to the 'ufc' to fight the fighters I have mentioned purely because he has proven himself so doesn't need to fight in the ufc to do so.

As for his reluctancy to join the ufc this will probably be highly related to the current frontman of the ufc Dana White insulting him on more than a few occasions in the press. So why would he go to the ufc when the spokesman has already insulted him which was extremely unprofessional. Although his last fight was a dive in being against Brett Rogers but how would this be any different to fighting lets say Brock Lesnar who has only beaten one legit fighter for championship contendership. Then his next fight is againt Werdun which is another easy fight but then he will surely be facing a top heavyweight in Alistair Overeem who I believe would do well and challenge for the title in the ufc. Maybe then he might consider his move to the ufc but with Dana White continuing to say things about Fedor in press releases this will surely just further ruin Fedors relations with the ufc.

Fedor is the undisputed king of MMA so all thee who question him shall be shunned!


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

chuck fan (russ) said:


> You can't honestly say Fedor isn't the top heavyweight fighter in the world because he's not in the ufc. Firstly lets look at the ufc's current top dogs in heavyweight, Brock Lesnar currently the champion in the ufc whose record is 4-1 which is far from a proven record in which hes beat a back from retirement Randy Couture, Heath Herring and Frank Mir(in a second attempt after being defeated the first fight via submission). Shane Carwin whose record is better at 12-0 but his only two notable fights are against Frank Mir and Gabriel Gonzaga so has hardly had a tough line of opposition in his career. Then we have Junior Dos Santos who holds wins over the no longer performing Gabriel Gonzaga, a far past his prime Mirko Flipovic and the not so awe inspiring Werdum who for some reason is getting a fight with Fedor. Then you have Cain Velasquez whose notable wins are against past their prime Big Nog, Ben Rothwell and a win against not very well rounded like a turtle on his back Cheick Kongo. Thats my breakdown of the top ufc heavyweights at the moment and I dont understand what these guys have that Fedor Emelianenko hasn't beaten better of before.
> 
> Lets look at in comparison who fedor has defeated in his career with a should have been perfect undefeated career apart from some rule in 'Rings' that declared if somebody is cut they lose regardless that this strike was actually an illegal strike. His record stand at 32 wins 1 loss and 1 no contest. In his career he's fought and won against fighters such as Ricardo Arona, Renato Sobral, Heath Herring, Antonio Nogueira twice, Mark Coleman twice, Kevin Randleman, Mirko Cro Cop, Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski. Many of these fighters such as Antonio Nogueira and Mirko Cro Cop were in strong form when he faced them and still he overcome them both. Tim Sylvia was just getting passed his prime when they met up but the way that Fedor put away Big Tim is impressive and nobody else could have put somebody as exerienced as Tim away that easily. Andrei Arlovski who when he met Fedor was still considered a top 10 heavyweight in the world who Fedor put away. Fedor Emelianenko cant be questioned or compared as inferior because he wont go to the 'ufc' to fight the fighters I have mentioned purely because he has proven himself so doesn't need to fight in the ufc to do so.
> 
> ...


That's a nice post! :thumbsup: 

But you can not call Fedor the best Heavyweight either right now. You can't call anybody the best HW in the World right now, cause the best out there don't fight each other. 

Really the only way we can finally anwer this question, is when they finally fight each other! Everything else is pure Speculation atm. and Nobody can tell who is really the number 1 out there.

Fedor did beat all the best HW's out there quite some time ago yes. But there is a new generation of Heavyweights out there at the moment. And Nobody can tell who is really the best RIGHT NOW!


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> True! But Fedor doesn't even fight in the number 1 promotion, but still keeps fighting in the weakest devision MMA has to offer.
> 
> And I don't think you can ever rank Brock, Carwin in any kind of top 5 p4p even if they go 20-0 in there next fights. Cause we just don't know if there size helps them to win fights. With GSP we know it's all skill what he does. But with Brock we will never know how much he needs his weight. These guys should be far far away from any kind of p4p list.


Do you know what p4p means? Brock fights HW's.
This whole argument is delusional IMO.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Majortom505 said:


> Do you know what p4p means? Brock fights HW's.
> This whole argument is delusional IMO.


Yes I do lol!

And I also know that p4p was introduced to compare the lighter fighters to Heavys not the other way around..:confused05: 

265 pound Monsters have no business being in a top 5-10 p4p list! 

You should figure out what p4p really means..


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

chuck fan (russ) said:


> You can't honestly say Fedor isn't the top heavyweight fighter in the world because he's not in the ufc. Firstly lets look at the ufc's current top dogs in heavyweight, Brock Lesnar currently the champion in the ufc whose record is 4-1 which is far from a proven record in which hes beat a back from retirement Randy Couture, Heath Herring and Frank Mir(in a second attempt after being defeated the first fight via submission). Shane Carwin whose record is better at 12-0 but his only two notable fights are against Frank Mir and Gabriel Gonzaga so has hardly had a tough line of opposition in his career. Then we have Junior Dos Santos who holds wins over the no longer performing Gabriel Gonzaga, a far past his prime Mirko Flipovic and the not so awe inspiring Werdum who for some reason is getting a fight with Fedor. Then you have Cain Velasquez whose notable wins are against past their prime Big Nog, Ben Rothwell and a win against not very well rounded like a turtle on his back Cheick Kongo. Thats my breakdown of the top ufc heavyweights at the moment and I dont understand what these guys have that Fedor Emelianenko hasn't beaten better of before.


It is not that it is the UFC, if any other organization had the most top contenders, then Fedor would need to go there to prove that he can still hang with the best. After his next couple fights, if he wins them then who does he fight? You don't think his stock will drop when he fights people below his talent level? His stock has already dropped if you ask me.



> Lets look at in comparison who fedor has defeated in his career with a should have been perfect undefeated career apart from some rule in 'Rings' that declared if somebody is cut they lose regardless that this strike was actually an illegal strike. His record stand at 32 wins 1 loss and 1 no contest. In his career he's fought and won against fighters such as Ricardo Arona, Renato Sobral, Heath Herring, Antonio Nogueira twice, Mark Coleman twice, Kevin Randleman, Mirko Cro Cop, Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski. Many of these fighters such as Antonio Nogueira and Mirko Cro Cop were in strong form when he faced them and still he overcome them both. Tim Sylvia was just getting passed his prime when they met up but the way that Fedor put away Big Tim is impressive and nobody else could have put somebody as exerienced as Tim away that easily. Andrei Arlovski who when he met Fedor was still considered a top 10 heavyweight in the world who Fedor put away. Fedor Emelianenko cant be questioned or compared as inferior because he wont go to the 'ufc' to fight the fighters I have mentioned purely because he has proven himself so doesn't need to fight in the ufc to do so.


Yes, Fedor beat the best of the best back then. But all this proves is that Fedor was the best back then. To be known as the best of the present, Fedor needs to beat the best of the present. The best is not a lifelong title, it must be constantly proven.



> As for his reluctancy to join the ufc this will probably be highly related to the current frontman of the ufc Dana White insulting him on more than a few occasions in the press. So why would he go to the ufc when the spokesman has already insulted him which was extremely unprofessional. Although his last fight was a dive in being against Brett Rogers but how would this be any different to fighting lets say Brock Lesnar who has only beaten one legit fighter for championship contendership. Then his next fight is againt Werdun which is another easy fight but then he will surely be facing a top heavyweight in Alistair Overeem who I believe would do well and challenge for the title in the ufc. Maybe then he might consider his move to the ufc but with Dana White continuing to say things about Fedor in press releases this will surely just further ruin Fedors relations with the ufc.


 White insulted him, but most if not all of the problems are being caused by M-1 Global. They refuse to do anything with the UFC without co-promotion. There are also reports that Dana White and Fedor have never talked to each other directly because of M-1 Global.



> Fedor is the undisputed king of MMA so all thee who question him shall be shunned!


I don't regard Fedor as the best anymore and many other people do not either. In fact, most popular P4P lists have Fedor at the #3 spot now and it is only due to the fact that he is not consistently fighting top competition anymore.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

All I have to say is dealing with Eastern Europeans in business can be rather difficult. They have this Draconian mindset that has not evolved.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

The last top 10 HW fighter (at the time) Fedor fought was in 2005... over 5 years ago, enough said. 

Facing below par competition has to be effecting how sharp he is in a match. I personally don't think he'd beat Brock, Carwin, Dos Santos, Cain or Mir barring one of them f'ing up and giving him an easy sub.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

I completely agree with Dana for once. It's not Dana that's the problem, it's M-1.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Majortom505 said:


> As much as I hate p4p discussions.... someone said p4p isn't static and I have to ask..... is Mohammad Ali the greatest p4p boxer ever?





BobbyCooper said:


> True! But Fedor doesn't even fight in the number 1 promotion, but still keeps fighting in the weakest devision MMA has to offer.
> 
> And I don't think you can ever rank Brock, Carwin in any kind of top 5 p4p even if they go 20-0 in there next fights. Cause we just don't know if there size helps them to win fights. With GSP we know it's all skill what he does. But with Brock we will never know how much he needs his weight. These guys should be far far away from any kind of p4p list.





No_Mercy said:


> All I have to say is dealing with Eastern Europeans in business can be rather difficult. They have this Draconian mindset that has not evolved.


No Ali is at three behind a Marciano and Tyson.

Brock and Carwin can easily be put on the top PfP list. It will take a while and a lot of work but imagine if Lesnar beat everyone for the rest of his career in devastating fasion like Mir2? Or if Carwin KOed everyone in the first round for another 5 fights? Carwin would have an easier time getting on the list because while he is big he is not as big as Lesnar and very close to a lot of other HWs.

Yeah that is pretty annoying. Though really it is just how they act when dealing with foreign business men and not each other... or so i am told.



Really comparing records of the HW division right now is not really helpful t all. If we look at who a fighter has beaten in his entire career Fedor would have a clear advantage. If we look at how quickly fighters have rose up to fight tough competition lesnar would have a clear advantage.

And comparing the most recent fights of the fighters is actually pretty sad now too.

Fedor: Coleman, Hunt, Lindland, Sylvia, Choi, Arlovski, Rogers. not really a relevant name on there anymore.

Lesnar: Couture, Herring, Mir, Loss to Mir.

Carwin: Mir, Gonzaga, Wain, Willisch.

Cain: Stojnic, Kongo, Rothwell, Nog.

JDS: Werdum, Struve, Cro Cop, Yvel, Gonzaga.

Overeem: Hunt, NC(Cro Cop), Goodridge, Sylvester, Thompson,Fujita, Rogers.


Really no one has dominated top competition. They are all doing very well against fighters that are not on their level right now. Carwin/Lesnar is the first time these top fighters are actually going to meet. Fact of the matter is though that all the real top competition is in the UFC and they are not going to lend their fighters out so Fedor's PfP status will start to drop in the near future but not his legacy.


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

wehehehell.. yes you understood me .. he would even give Brock those things just to be sure Fedor loses.. that`s how i see White as a person.. Brock is just his puppet.. like Fedor is for M-1.. 

Olympic swimmer for example use those drugs for ages .. some get caught some not.. depends how strong lobby ya have .. if you are from those "bigger" countries ya almost don't have to worry about a thing.. UFC is the biggest organisation so that should not be a problem for them.. 

Just send your Brock over to Fedor and let him prove he is the best competition or even better then Fedor.. UFC may be the biggest right now... still no reason for Fedor to choose Dana as his boss .. several reasons.. he is an asshole.. he talks shit about others .. and so on.. 

good job Fedor.. ps .. not even a fan of Fedor but i like how he is driving Dana White crazy.. keep it up..


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

edlavis88 said:


> The last top 10 HW fighter (at the time) Fedor fought was in 2005... over 5 years ago, enough said.
> 
> Facing below par competition has to be effecting how sharp he is in a match. I personally don't think he'd beat Brock, Carwin, Dos Santos, Cain or Mir barring one of them f'ing up and giving him an easy sub.


The last top 10 ranked heavyweight fighter he has faced was Rogers, before that it was Arvlosvki who was ranked top 3. He then took a fight with Josh Barnett who was ranked at 2, but then tested positive for steroids. Now he's gonna fight Werdum who is also ranked top 10.

Edit: I forgot Sylvia.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Ivan said:


> wehehehell.. yes you understood me .. he would even give Brock those things just to be sure Fedor loses.. that`s how i see White as a person.. Brock is just his puppet.. like Fedor is for M-1..
> 
> Olympic swimmer for example use those drugs for ages .. some get caught some not.. depends how strong lobby ya have .. if you are from those "bigger" countries ya almost don't have to worry about a thing.. UFC is the biggest organisation so that should not be a problem for them..
> 
> ...


Brock has the best competition in the HW class in the UFC. The only fighter outside that he could fight that would up his ranking is Fedor, and even if he beat Fedor everyone would just say it is because Fedor is old.

There are no impressive up and comers out there that could compete with Brock.

I don't even know why I am arguing with you since you have such a foolish outlook on reality it is not even funny.


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

I can only return the favour.. some foolish logic you have.. no need for him to leave .. fine.. i was just talking about a 1 fight deal.. fight Fedor and go back to your foolish logics i mean UFC..


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Ivan said:


> I can only return the favour.. some foolish logic you have.. no need for him to leave .. fine.. i was just talking about a 1 fight deal.. fight Fedor and go back to your foolish logics i mean UFC..


Maybe Dana White could use his time machine to move up 20 years or so and get some really good steroids! Then Fedor would have no chance:thumb02:


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> The last top 10 ranked heavyweight fighter he has faced was Rogers, before that it was Arvlosvki who was ranked top 3. He then took a fight with Josh Barnett who was ranked at 2, but then tested positive for steroids. Now he's gonna fight Werdum who is also ranked top 10.
> 
> Edit: I forgot Sylvia.


Rogers is NOT top 10! Arlovski was at 1 point but not when Fedor fought him, and Sylvia hasn't been top 10 for years! 
Werdum is maybe 9 or 10 in the HW rankings and admittedly a good opponent but still Fedor is ducking Overeem who is the best outside the UFC!


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

future is more closer than ya think.. read that somewhere today... it is like those stealth bombers USA had for 20 years and nobody knew it..


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

The505Butcher said:


> Brock and Carwin can easily be put on the top PfP list. It will take a while and a lot of work but imagine if Lesnar beat everyone for the rest of his career in devastating fasion like Mir2? Or if Carwin KOed everyone in the first round for another 5 fights? Carwin would have an easier time getting on the list because while he is big he is not as big as Lesnar and very close to a lot of other HWs.


How so?  It's impossible to do. How can you rank a guy like Lesnar or Carwin into the top 5 not to mention top 3 is beyond me. 

If Carwin would continue to KO everybody in the first round, even then it would be foolish to rank him even in the top 10. Carwin lives ONLY from his size, strenght and *Power*. Do you really believe he would just KO fools at 155 with one touch to the chin?? No way!!! It's the mass and Power wich allow him to KO everybody with one touch. That would not work at all at the lower weight classes. Thats why he is lightyears beyond the likes of Anderson, GSP, BJ Penn...

Same goes for Brock. Nobody knows if his Wrestling is really that great without all his mass. The fight against Randy Couture gives you a little inside, that it would not be that dominating at all at let's say 170. But for GSP and Jon Fitch, we already know that those guys are really great Wrestlers with lots of skills. Something we will never find out for a guy like Brock, unless he drops down to at least 230. Fitch and GSP would walk through the HW devision, if they had the same size as Lesnar. We know how great they are. Same goes for BJ Penn, Lyoto, Rua, Andy.. but we will never find out if Carwin could really KO everybody with one punch at 155 and if Brock could out Wrestle and Lay on guys at 155.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Ivan said:


> I can only return the favour.. some foolish logic you have.. no need for him to leave .. fine.. i was just talking about a 1 fight deal.. fight Fedor and go back to your foolish logics i mean UFC..


I just said fighting Fedor would not even help Brock. Everyone will just say the only reason Brock won was because of his size and Fedor is old. If brock loses then everyone will say Fedor is the real champ so everyone has to go outside of the UFC to fight the real champ. It is a no win situation for Brock and the UFC so why would they do it?


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

edlavis88 said:


> Rogers is NOT top 10! Arlovski was at 1 point but not when Fedor fought him, and Sylvia hasn't been top 10 for years!
> Werdum is maybe 9 or 10 in the HW rankings and admittedly a good opponent but still Fedor is ducking Overeem who is the best outside the UFC!


Rogers was ranked top 10 before he fought Fedor. Arlovski was ranked #3 when he fought Fedor. Arlovski LEFT the UFC to fight Fedor. He was at no point cut by the UFC. Plus Fedor has already said he will fight Overeem but right now he's fighting Werdum, so he can't fight Overeem.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> How so?  It's impossible to do. How can you rank a guy like Lesnar or Carwin into the top 5 not to mention top 3 is beyond me.
> 
> If Carwin would continue to KO everybody in the first round, even then it would be foolish to rank him even in the top 10. Carwin lives ONLY from his size, strenght and *Power*. Do you really believe he would just KO fools at 155 with one touch to the chin?? No way!!! It's the mass and Power wich allow him to KO everybody with one touch. That would not work at all at the lower weight classes. Thats why he is lightyears beyond the likes of Anderson, GSP, BJ Penn...
> 
> Same goes for Brock. Nobody knows if his Wrestling is really that great without all his mass. The fight against Randy Couture gives you a little inside, that it would not be that dominating at all at let's say 170. But for GSP and Jon Fitch, we already know that those guys are really great Wrestlers with lots of skills. Something we will never find out for a guy like Brock, unless he drops down to at least 230. Fitch and GSP would walk through the HW devision, if they had the same size as Lesnar. We know how great they are. Same goes for BJ Penn, Lyoto, Rua, Andy.. but we will never find out if Carwin could really KO everybody with one punch at 155 and if Brock could out Wrestle and Lay on guys at 155.


Yes I can see where you are going with Lesnar. But Carwin's power is more based off of skill anyways. Yes he has a lot of power and I will not deny that but he places his punches right on the chin which makes him have a lot of skill IMO. Carwin while he is larger than all his opponents has never really used it. 

Yes it is impressive the skill the lower weight fighters have but to make that totaly elliminate the heavier fighters is not fair either. I think it takes more for the heavier guys like Carwin and Lesnar to be at the top, but I still believe they can get there.

If Carwin or Lesnar beat the other three top HWs in the UFC in any other way than Lesnar/Herring way then I don't see why they can not be considered.

Carwin would have to have more KO's with skill instead of KO's similar to the Mir fight. The Mir ko was impressive but took a lot less skill.

Lesnar would have to show more standing prowess and not just do what he has done in his past three fights which is why I think it would be harder for Lesnar to get there than Carwin.


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

Well is fighting Brock helping Fedor.. i don't know but i guess it is not.. he would have to risk a lot in the UFC mainly his legacy .. i somehow understand him.. he was kicking ass all those years and even said in 2006 that he wants to have a long break from fighting.. while he did that others were training like crazy.. 

who knows why he is not in the UFC.. all these speculations come mainly from the UFC.. i just wanna hear what both have to say.. but i can only hear Dana and his side of the story.. which is being repeated over and over again.. like ya said it isnt even funny after listening to it so many times..


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Ivan said:


> Well is fighting Brock helping Fedor.. i don't know but i guess it is not.. he would have to risk a lot in the UFC mainly his legacy .. i somehow understand him.. he was kicking ass all those years and even said in 2006 that he wants to have a long break from fighting.. while he did that others were training like crazy..
> 
> who knows why he is not in the UFC.. all these speculations come mainly from the UFC.. i just wanna hear what both have to say.. but i can only hear Dana and his side of the story.. which is being repeated over and over again.. like ya said it isnt even funny after listening to it so many times..


Fighting in the UFC would help Fedor because it would show he still can beat the up and comers well past his prime. Yes I would like to hear from the other side more and I do not know why so I can only guess (and I am probably wrong) that Dana is telling the truth and it is M-1 being selfish and trying to capatalize on it's one fighter. Smart on their part but still upsetting.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Rogers was ranked top 10 before he fought Fedor. Arlovski was ranked #3 when he fought Fedor. Arlovski LEFT the UFC to fight Fedor. He was at no point cut by the UFC. Plus Fedor has already said he will fight Overeem but right now he's fighting Werdum, so he can't fight Overeem.


I know they were top 10 in the official rankings but if you look at what has happened to Arlovski and Rogers since those fights and who they were fighting before you cannot put them in the top 10 imo. Rogers beat a load of cans and then beat Arlovski who like i said i dont consider top 10. Arlovski beat a few top 25 guys, including good wins over Nelson and Rothwell but didn't beat any top 10 guys. Since the fight with Fedor they have both fought a better quality of fighter and been destroyed! I do rate Fedor but can't see the arguement that he is at the top of the HW division.

IMO he should go UFC before he fights Overeem cos Overeem will destory him, and then the money UFC will offer him will only go one way, DOWN!


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

I would be more then happy to see Fedor in the UFC just to put an end to all this talk once and for all.. but sadly and for some unexplained reason that looks to be more unrealistic and difficult then to stop that oil polluting the planet for example.. 
thats why i am suggesting to give in and send Brock or whoever the UFC wants to demonstrate their power in some victorious fashion.. or just forget about him and mind your own business (directed at Dana) ..


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Ivan said:


> I would be more then happy to see Fedor in the UFC just to put an end to all this talk once and for all.. but sadly and for some unexplained reason that looks to be more unrealistic and difficult then to stop that oil poluting the planet for example..


I have basically given up. Fedor has said he wants to stop fighting soon and I do not see him losing to anyone at SF unless if he throws the fight which we all know he won't. He will have people who everyone will say can challenge him like Overeem, Werdum, Bigfoot. Possibly Barnett

M-1 will not back down from their requirment,nor will the UFC. So unless SF completely bombs and and Dream does not get all the fighters scrambling from there then Fedor will stay outside the UFC which is so sad. I had so much hope when Affliction ended... now my heart has been torn out and jumped on by "The Last Emperor".

Really I should say his management.


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

I understand that it is very frustrating for the fans.. but what can you do.. fans are stuck in between those two sides like between two fires and it aint cool for sure..


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

edlavis88 said:


> Rogers is NOT top 10! Arlovski was at 1 point but not when Fedor fought him, and Sylvia hasn't been top 10 for years!
> Werdum is maybe 9 or 10 in the HW rankings and admittedly a good opponent but still Fedor is ducking Overeem who is the best outside the UFC!


Actually, Brett Rogers was ranked *number six* when he fought Fedor, according to Sherdog. (These are the October, 2009 rankings, and they fought November 7, 2009.) Fedor fought Arlovski in January, 2009, when Arlovski was ranked *number two*, according to Sherdog. Sylvia was ranked *number four* when he fought Fedor, according to Sherdog.

Werdum is ranked *number nine* going into his fight against Fedor, according to Sherdog.

Like I said, I respect Fedor, but his legacy won't be the same without fighting in the UFC.


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## munkie (Sep 28, 2009)

UrbanBounca said:


> Actually, Brett Rogers was ranked *number six* when he fought Fedor, according to Sherdog. (These are the October, 2009 rankings, and they fought November 7, 2009.) Fedor fought Arlovski in January, 2009, when Arlovski was ranked *number two*, according to Sherdog. Sylvia was ranked *number four* when he fought Fedor, according to Sherdog.
> 
> Werdum is ranked *number nine* going into his fight against Fedor, according to Sherdog.
> 
> Like I said, I respect Fedor, but his legacy won't be the same without fighting in the UFC.


Of course Sherdog ranked Rogers 6. Sherdog is a joke. The have Dan Hardy top 5 welterweight. Clearly a joke. Sherdog is popularly an MMA powerhouse, but their forums and their site has been a joke for years. And the only time Rogers was ranked 6 is when he signed to fight Fedor. Everybody Fedor fights is automatically shot up into the top class of heavyweights. It's a joke.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Actually, MMAweekly had Rogers ranked #6-7 as well, as did fightmetric. He's currently ranked top 10 at MMAweekly.

Rogers was ranked that high because he was undefeated and just knocked out a borderline top 5 in Arlovski in like 12 seconds or whatever it was.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Yeah Rogers was ranked and still is ranked way too high. He is a tough fighter but is not in the top IMO.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

munkie said:


> Of course Sherdog ranked Rogers 6. Sherdog is a joke. The have Dan Hardy top 5 welterweight. Clearly a joke. Sherdog is popularly an MMA powerhouse, but their forums and their site has been a joke for years. And the only time Rogers was ranked 6 is when he signed to fight Fedor. Everybody Fedor fights is automatically shot up into the top class of heavyweights. It's a joke.


IMO, aside from their community, Sherdog is pretty credible. It may be your opinion that Rogers shouldn't have been ranked, but as MC has already stated, he was ranked on just about every credible site.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

UrbanBounca said:


> IMO, aside from their community, Sherdog is pretty credible. It may be your opinion that Rogers shouldn't have been ranked, but as MC has already stated, he was ranked on just about every credible site.


Yeah he was ranked there but far too prematurely and mainly because he got such a quick KO of AA. Oh and he was about to fight Fedor.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

I think they were credible sources at the time but the ranking not correct, I dont feel like he deserved to be top 10 at that time, regardless of the events that led him to that fight with Fedor...


EDIT: am I the only one that see's imagefra.me above The505butcher's avy?? WTF is that says image not found????


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

*...We might be getting mixed messages from Fedor...*

...I just did a wiki on Fedor. He's been training with top dutch kickboxers concentrating on further improving his striking game. My guess it's with team perfect. Sounds like a man on a mission. Fedor then stated "I don't want to look beyond Fabricio Werdum. If everything goes well and I will feel alright". Emelianenko also stated He will stay with Strikeforce but he's considering retirement more & more often now. If he's most likely training with Hoost & company to improve his striking, why would he want to consider retiring now? Kinda weird. I think Fedor might be pulling our finger. He's 1 fight away from a getting a shot at a 3rd belt. Who would retire if they were one fight away from a title shot? It doesn't add up. Training in Holland tells me he's gonna go after Overeem's title. As far as the UFC, those pipe dreams seem to be over...


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> I think they were credible sources at the time but the ranking not correct, I dont feel like he deserved to be top 10 at that time, regardless of the events that led him to that fight with Fedor...
> 
> 
> EDIT: am I the only one that see's imagefra.me above The505butcher's avy?? WTF is that says image not found????


I see that error message a lot with the people who have the 1 year membership.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I see that error message a lot with the people who have the 1 year membership.


eah I don't know how to take it off...


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

All this talk about certain HW's not being top 10. Listen, MMA has barely ever had 10 decent HW's full stop across ALL organizations! Its bound to be full of useless sounding fools.

I challenge anybody to draw me a list of the current top 10 HW's in the world... I would bet the list would go something like ( in no particular order) :

Fedor
Lesnar
Carwin
JDS
Cain

... before getting to the "god no, he's not good enough" names. Thing is, they are good enough. Somebody has to make up those other 5 names. eg. Werdum & Overeem ARE top 10.

In a nutshell, Fedor has been fighting top 10 HW's all his life and still is, whether you like it or not.

NOTE. The above can be applied to all divisions. Take out the top 5 and the next 5 are not so hot and seeming don't *deserve* to be called top10... but they are. Thats MMA for you. Shallow talent pools made to look deep by marketing idiots.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> All this talk about certain HW's not being top 10. Listen, MMA has barely ever had 10 decent HW's full stop across ALL organizations! Its bound to be full of useless sounding fools.
> 
> I challenge anybody to draw me a list of the current top 10 HW's in the world... I would bet the list would go something like ( in no particular order) :
> 
> ...


there hardly idiots when it works


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> The last top 10 HW fighter (at the time) Fedor fought was in 2005... over 5 years ago, enough said.





> Rogers is NOT top 10! Arlovski was at 1 point but not when Fedor fought him, and Sylvia hasn't been top 10 for years!
> Werdum is maybe 9 or 10 in the HW rankings and admittedly a good opponent but still Fedor is ducking Overeem who is the best outside the UFC!


You do live in your own little world, don't you? Give me your list of TOP 10 heavyweights on July 19, 2008 and January 24, 2009.


> His wins in Affliction weren't that impressive, because his opponents weren't considered TOP level...let's be honest


Ridiculous statement. Tell me, please, who were considered TOP level fighters back then? Velasquez, JDS were all nobodies, Mir was coming off his win on PRELIMINARY card against Hardonk, and Lesnar told referee on UFC 81, "Stop, I can't fight anymore" which made his record 1-1. Randy Couture tried to leave UFC as the champion because there were nobodies worthy to fight with.


> Plus: Rodgers beat Arlovski wurse than Fedor did and Mercer beat Sylvia wurse than fedor did.


Yeah, and Marquardt beat Maia way more impressively than Anderson Silva did. Now you're gonna tell me that Nate is better than Silva? Or how about Hallman beating Hughes easily twice and Trigg beating Hallman twice? According to you, I have to assume that Trigg is much better than Hughes. Well, I can tell you this is wrong logic you try to apply here, it doesn't work. And don't forget that this is Fedor we are talking about. Nobody fights the way he does - he lets you dictate where the fight goes, where you're great at, and you always go down. GSP is scared to strike after UFC 69, Anderson Silva fights standing and constantly tries to keep it there with some dancing moves involved. Lesnar, Couture, Fitch (and many other from UFC elite) never surprise me as well. Even Fedor's entrances differ from others, and he doesn't act like Liddell who thinks he must necessarily prove something, and I'm not sure Emelianenko goes partying with girls after his wins either. He is unique and must be treated accordingly, no need to compare him to others everytime.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

The_Senator said:


> You do live in your own little world, don't you? Give me your list of TOP 10 heavyweights on July 19, 2008 and January 24, 2009.
> 
> Ridiculous statement. Tell me, please, who were considered TOP level fighters back then? Velasquez, JDS were all nobodies, Mir was coming off his win on PRELIMINARY card against Hardonk, and Lesnar told referee on UFC 81, "Stop, I can't fight anymore" which made his record 1-1. Randy Couture tried to leave UFC as the champion because there were nobodies worthy to fight with.
> 
> Yeah, and Marquardt beat Maia way more impressively than Anderson Silva did. Now you're gonna tell me that Nate is better than Silva? Or how about Hallman beating Hughes easily twice and Trigg beating Hallman twice? According to you, I have to assume that Trigg is much better than Hughes. Well, I can tell you this is wrong logic you try to apply here, it doesn't work. And don't forget that this is Fedor we are talking about. Nobody fights the way he does - he lets you dictate where the fight goes, where you're great at, and you always go down. GSP is scared to strike after UFC 69, Anderson Silva fights standing and constantly tries to keep it there with some dancing moves involved. Lesnar, Couture, Fitch (and many other from UFC elite) never surprise me as well. Even Fedor's entrances differ from others, and he doesn't act like Liddell who thinks he must necessarily prove something, and I'm not sure Emelianenko goes partying with girls after his wins either. He is unique and must be treated accordingly, no need to compare him to others everytime.


Well now... According to you, everyone in the UFC is seriously flawed.
This reminds me of people that like a city and find it necessary then to put down every other city, and the people that live there.
It is a pathetic way to argue a point. If you have to tear down something in order to elevate what you champion, then you either have no point worth talking about, or you simply do not know how to praise your point, man, city etc...
IF Fedor wished to fight the best, he would be in the UFC doing that. His agenda is elsewhere. You don't need to trash others to say that, and you can't dispute it either.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

The_Senator said:


> You do live in your own little world, don't you? Give me your list of TOP 10 heavyweights on July 19, 2008 and January 24, 2009.


2008 top 10

1.Fedor
2.Big Nog
3.Couture
4.Werdum
5.Barnett
6.Overeem
7.Mir
8.Gonzaga
9.Cro Cop
10. Arlovski


2009 top 10

1.Fedor
2.Mir
3.Brock
4.Overeem
5.Big Nog
6.Barnett
7.Carwin
8.Velasquez
9.Couture
10.Dos Santos


Fact of the matter is Fedor hasn't fought the best there is, if you argue with that then YOU are living in your own little world!!


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

I have seen this argument go on here at MMAF for 4 years now and I am sick of it. 

We need to get this over with PDQ. He needs to go to the ufc and fight at least 2 or 3 of the 4 best (carwin,jds,cain,Brock). That way we can confirm that he is the best or not. If he waits too long then there is the excuse that he is too old. If he does not go soon I have no choice but believe what Dana says about him.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> According to you, everyone in the UFC is seriously flawed.


On what do you base this astute assessment?


> It is a pathetic way to argue a point. If you have to tear down something in order to elevate what you champion, then you either have no point worth talking about, or you simply do not know how to praise your point, man, city etc...


I never argue. I was simply stating the facts, you can draw your own conclusions, or have said anything that is untrue?


> IF Fedor wished to fight the best, he would be in the UFC doing that. His agenda is elsewhere. You don't need to trash others to say that, and you can't dispute it either.


If you got a feeling that I hate UFC and will do whatever it takes to defend the person who doesn't care about all rankings himself, then you're wrong.
And you basically ignored my questions regarding the lists of TOP 10 heavyweights on July 19, 2008 and January 24, 2009 and who were considered TOP level fighters back then, let alone the reason why Randy Couture, Tim Sylvia, Jeff Monson and Andrei Arlovski left UFC with one goal - to face Fedor. Think about it - to leave UFC to face Fedor. Werdum was also released with no solid reason. If Werdum sucks, then why is Gonzaga still in UFC or Vera? Henderson was also released not because he sucks as a fighter, but because it was all about the money. And I'm sure I don't need to repeat myself that highly respected fighters including Shogun, GSP and Couture said more than once that Fedor is the best and Henderson clearly called Fedor "the ultimate challenge for any fighter". The only persons who say otherwise are Liddell and White. And one more thing, why has Cro Cop said after UFC 99 that he wants to face Emelianenko one more time or become the UFC champion? He was specific only about Fedor and not about any other UFC fighter with exception of Nogueira for obvious reasons. Why? Because a victory over Fedor is the biggest accomplishment a fighter can achieve, a victory over JDS, Carwin, Velasquez or Lesnar isn't, at least yet.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

The_Senator said:


> If you got a feeling that I hate UFC and will do whatever it takes to defend the person who doesn't care about all rankings himself, then you're wrong.
> And you basically ignored my questions regarding the lists of TOP 10 heavyweights on July 19, 2008 and January 24, 2009 and who were considered TOP level fighters back then, let alone the reason why Randy Couture, Tim Sylvia, Jeff Monson and Andrei Arlovski left UFC with one goal - to face Fedor. Think about it - to leave UFC to face Fedor. Werdum was also released with no solid reason. If Werdum sucks, then why is Gonzaga still in UFC or Vera? Henderson was also released not because he sucks as a fighter, but because it was all about the money. And I'm sure I don't need to repeat myself that highly respected fighters including Shogun, GSP and Couture said more than once that Fedor is the best and Henderson clearly called Fedor "the ultimate challenge for any fighter". The only persons who say otherwise are Liddell and White. And one more thing, why has Cro Cop said after UFC 99 that he wants to face Emelianenko one more time or become the UFC champion? He was specific only about Fedor and not about any other UFC fighter with exception of Nogueira for obvious reasons. Why? Because a victory over Fedor is the biggest accomplishment a fighter can achieve, a victory over JDS, Carwin, Velasquez or Lesnar isn't, at least yet.


The biggest accomplishment thing is based on a 3 or 4 year period where Fedor was at the top of the MMA world.
I wouldn't argue against Fedor being the top P4P fighter in the world from 2002-2005, he beat the best there was consistently... but that was 5 years ago.
Guys view him as the ultimate accomplishment because of what he did over those few years.
He is a legend of the sport but has no business in the top 5 on the CURRENT P4P imo and without taking these tough fights there will always be questions over if he was THE best ever.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> 1.Fedor
> 2.Big Nog
> 3.Couture.
> 4.Werdum
> ...


In other words, if some newcomer fought instead of Mir with Vera back then, lost badly, then somehow submitted Hardonk on prelims (kind of like Hague luckily submitted Barry), then fought some guy with 1-0 record, got his face bloody and still managed to get a submission with little referee's help, then he is a solid #7 heavyweight in the World! Definitely above such stars as former UFC champion Tim Sylvia who fought in co-main event against undefeated Vera, won,, then lost to Nogueira in a main event for UFC title, PRIDE GP winner Cro Cop, former UFC champion Arlovski on a 4-fight winning streak, including the one via TKO over the guy who beat Mir, against people with records much better than ridiculous 1-0.
Great list.


> Fact of the matter is Fedor hasn't fought the best there is, if you argue with that then YOU are living in your own little world!!


The best? You put Nogueira at #2 and Fedor beat him when Nogueira still had submission skills and a chin.



> 2009 top 10
> 
> 1.Fedor
> 2.Mir
> ...


You second list is just incredibly dumb. You don't have the guy on 5-fight winning streak with solid victories over Cruz, Werdum, O'Brien, Rothwell and Nelson, but you have here Dos Santos who also beat Werdum, just joined UFC, hasn't even faced Struve yet and lost a year earlier to nobody in Brazil via submission, and his other 3 victories are over people whom even wikipedia doesn't know. Great list as well, bro! He fought Struve in February and Arlovski fought Fedor in January, and I was asking you about January's list.
You respect UFC so much, that you even put the guy with 1 fight in UFC above the former UFC champion on a nice winning streak via TKO/KOs, this is just disrespectful. I'm not even going to make arguments about your places for other fighters on this second list of yours.


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