# Chinese MMA fighters in UFC



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

This thought always crosses my mind: why don't we see that many international fighters inside the octagon, especiallly chinese? Chinese culture was always paying attention to martial arts: Bruce Lee, Shaolin Temple... let alone a population there; they gotta have real talents. Is there a policy in UFC not to bring fighters from China, Thailand (it's where original Muay Thai comes from) or even Russia (I'm not talking of Fedor here)? All we see is based around the USA and Brazil, don't get me wrong I do believe that the best are the brazilians & the americans - they proved it , but it's not the whole world, you know what I'm saying? To me the UFC should be more international, wouldn't you say?


----------



## UseOf_A_Weapon (Aug 6, 2007)

there are some canadians too... (a fair amount of japanese and brits. a few scandanavians and a few eastern europeans as well). The reason for the differnce is that the UFC is based in the US. the US is also the biggest hotbed for MMA right now. UFC management can see a fight in the US amongst US competitors (and some mexican and canadians) more easily than they can watch a fight in china where the sport is not televised and is fairly underground right now. There aren't too many MMA competitors coming out of thailand either. I think thats another thing they are looking for- MMA competitors. Not just fighters that excel in one martial art. 

Just some of the possibilities. Yes, there are more Americans in the UFC than any other nationality- but it's all relative to the size of the sport in other countries (except maybe japan- but as I understand it the japanese prefer to fight in japan. the UFC just recently got the rights to air shows in japan again).


----------



## Philivey2k8 (Apr 22, 2007)

he would kill wandy in a staredown


----------



## SpecC (Nov 18, 2007)

Chinese people probably don't look into MMA much. The major fighting sport there is Sanda like Tae Kwon Do in Korea.


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Just some of the possibilities. Yes, there are more Americans in the UFC than any other nationality- but it's all relative to the size of the sport in other countries (except maybe japan- but as I understand it the japanese prefer to fight in japan. the UFC just recently got the rights to air shows in japan again).


The earliest UFCs were taking place not only in the USA but in Japan and Brazil as well, this fact develops an interest among local population, brings attention to the sport, and we get newcomers from these countries. Unfortunately, right now UFC makes shows just in the USA, Britain and Canada. Trying to compare it to UFC's major competitor which is WWE, we get a whole picture: they do their fake fights all around the world and they're always sold out... I think that if UFC starts expanding, we'll sure get more fighters, more shows, the salaries will be going up (if all this will be successfully done) and this factor will double the interest of young generation to MMA which is great for the sport... Just an opinion.

Compare a popularity of Triple H and Chuck Liddell, or John Cena and Wanderlei Silva. I think right now WWE got a better marketing plan than UFC. Plus, to me it was a mistake of Zuffa's to have closed Pride FC, it could have been like WEC, but a lot better and bigger, and cross-promotional battles would have been awesome. They had asian market and gave it to DREAM.


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

1)
Ufc is a business first, and MMA promoter second.

Americans like to cheer for Americans, so there is less motivation to seek outside talent, unless it is for a homegrown, english speaking star to beat.

2)
If you lived in China and practiced MMA would you rather stay in China, your home country, with your family, friends, and chinese speaking supporters, or would you rather travel half way around the world to a place that will most likely not support you as you will be facing American talent (at some point, not always)? You must also learn to speak english (if you don't already).



I think it is mostly an issue of practicality; it is simply more difficult to promote a fighter that is not American, and 10 times harder to promote one that doesn't speak english. Just ask Machida and Anderson Silva.


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Americans like to cheer for Americans


It's not an issue when most of the fights are between the americans. Wanderlei Silva got more ovation than Dan Henderson in Pride 33 (Las Vegas), Fedor got more ovation than Mark Coleman in Pride 32 (Las Vegas), let alone Mauricio "Shogun" Rua. 



> If you lived in China and practiced MMA would you rather stay in China, your home country, with your family, friends, and chinese speaking supporters, or would you rather travel half way around the world to a place that will most likely not support you as you will be facing American talent (at some point, not always)? You must also learn to speak english (if you don't already).


True, but it didn't stop fighters from coming to fight in Pride. Wanderlei doesn't speak japanese, not does Fedor (at least, I never heard them speaking this language, maybe I'm wrong). So these people came to another country and beat everybody there...


----------



## UseOf_A_Weapon (Aug 6, 2007)

the modern problem of promoting shows in foreign countries is the difference in the rules. If the UFC goes to say Japan and allows fighters to use the head stomps (which are legal in japan, but not the US) the UFC loses its license back in the states even though the fight takes place in another country. Dana white discussed this when asked a question regarding the possiblity of an open weight GP style tourney a few years ago.


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Dana white discussed this when asked a question regarding the possiblity of an open weight GP style tourney a few years ago.


That's a good point, I didn't know that.


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

The_Senator said:


> It's not an issue when most of the fights are between the americans. Wanderlei Silva got more ovation than Dan Henderson in Pride 33 (Las Vegas), Fedor got more ovation than Mark Coleman in Pride 32 (Las Vegas), let alone Mauricio "Shogun" Rua.
> 
> 
> True, but it didn't stop fighters from coming to fight in Pride. Wanderlei doesn't speak japanese, not does Fedor (at least, I never heard them speaking this language, maybe I'm wrong). So these people came to another country and beat everybody there...


Charisma and hype will always trump nationality, you are right. Wanderlei is just too lovable and Fedor has way too much mystique behind him. But these are not your average fighters, these are world renown superstars, not up and comers.

I am not sure how to comment on the Pride fighters. I know for myself personally I love to see brazilian and japanese fighters do well in the UFC. Brazilian fighters especially seem to have a noble honor about them.


Anyways, my comments were meant to be in general. As in all things being equal (two completely unknown fighters face off in Amercia) the crowd is more likely to cheer for the hometown/ home country.


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> As in all things being equal (two completely unknown fighters face off in Amercia) the crowd is more likely to cheer for the hometown/ home country.


True...


> Brazilian fighters especially seem to have a noble honor about them.


I think it goes for the asians as well... not the europeans and certainly not for most russians. But I agree, it's good to see spiritual and honorable fighters...


----------



## fan4life (Oct 4, 2007)

True its true ! Look at racing Americans in general route for names the can pronounce and fluent in english ( I route for the Canadian )nothing wrong with country pride. Look at F1 or Indy compared to NASCAR, the latter have names of the hometown boy and local venues but F1 and Indy struggle to survive. Not to mention a country with a population 0f 300+ million so they don't have to go far. I don't know the mma infrustructure in China but I'm guessing as stated before that most martial arts are one dimentional.


----------



## Captain Stupid (Feb 3, 2008)

I think in China it's more or less a cultural thing. Most of the Chinese are into more traditional styles of martial arts. Also most of the country is pretty poor, so they've probably never even heard of the UFC or MMA for that matter.


----------



## kano666 (Nov 2, 2007)

Not the best example. F1 is way more popular than NASCAR. The US is the exception, just as it is with soccer. 

It's too bad MMA hasn't caught on more in a bunch of places in the world. People have talked about a UFC event in the Philippines - obviously it helps to have a couple of good Filipino fighters (Vera, Nover). China would be a good place to expand to, but I can't name a single Chinese fighter. So markets like the UK, Korea, and Mexico are likely to get attention first - there are already good fighters for the fans to connect to.

A poster above suggested that MMA is popular in Brazil and Japan because the UFC held early events there. That's mixing up the history, though. Brazil had a long history of vale tudo (no holds barred fighting) which was part of what the Gracies brought to the US in helping to start the first UFC. Japan also had mixed martial arts tournaments and Shooto before the UFC. So basically those early UFC events were bringing the US brand to places where there was already a fan base for mixed martial arts.


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> but I can't name a single Chinese fighter


Neither could I. A little research on Chinese MMA fighters - Bao Li Gao (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/--Bao_Li_Gao). He's famous in China, but that's all I can say. One more thing - Chinese MMA organization is called "Art of War Fighting Championship"


----------



## kano666 (Nov 2, 2007)

Cool find! So there's potential there. Yao Ming with 15 years of kung fu and 5 years of BJJ would've been amazing.

It's a little surprising that there aren't even any Chinese-American or Chinese-Canadian fighters of note. I know there are Chinese-Canadians who train MMA here in Vancouver, but at a more casual level. 

Andy Wang's Taiwanese-American. That probably ruined any chance of a fan base in Taiwan for a few years...


----------



## LoganDaBoxer (Sep 30, 2008)

I think that the Chinese martial arts are predominantly for cultural expression and exercise as opposed to combatitive competion. However, I would like to see some Chinese in the cage to see if some of the Shaolin and Kung Fu powers really work.


----------



## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

The sport is very established in the US, in Brazil and in Japan, hence there's where most of the good fighter's come from. I live in Sweden and trains at a gym and one of our pro fighters (5-0) has gone to the US for a while to train with the good camps over there. 

According to him, the MMA training is SO much more sophisticated in the US than say, in Sweden (especially the cardio training). In my gym a fighter who just turned pro trains MMA only 3 times a week, the rest is job, cardio and strength. If you look out of shape: Just run some miles and you'll get better, while in the US there's an almost scientific approach to cardio training.

Also one could ask: Where are the best coaches, BJJ/Wrestling/boxing/Judo trainers? US, Brazil, Japan. I could add that UK also got some good fighters and gyms.

Finally: A lot of other countreys don't have wrestling in collage (and very few MMA/BJJ gyms); very few doors to MMA while you are young (while, again, in the US we see a ton of talented young fighters, often wrestlers).


----------



## Gutz (Aug 16, 2008)

The_Senator said:


> Neither could I. A little research on Chinese MMA fighters - Bao Li Gao (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/--Bao_Li_Gao). He's famous in China, but that's all I can say. One more thing - Chinese MMA organization is called "Art of War Fighting Championship"


Andy Wang maybe


----------



## UseOf_A_Weapon (Aug 6, 2007)

First, most traditional martial arts (specifically easter arts like Kung Fu and Offensive forms of Karate (Okinawa, Kyokushin, etc) are designed to preserve your own life and take another. Many of the most effective techniques they offer can't be used in sporting competition because someone would end up dead. 

As far as training in the US. We are such a sport-centric nation that Personal Training and physical sciences have become an industry in and of themselves. The new thing here is specialty training facilities where you come in, tell the trainers what your goal is (better conditioning, more speed, more strength, more power) and set a timeframe (4weeks, 8weeks, etc) and then they guarantee X amount of gains in that time frame. It's almost unbelievable. I have a friend who works for one of these facilities and their techniques are kept secret for the most part. Thats how serious they take it.

Still I believe that MMA isn't more widespread because there just isn't an interest in some places. I think the US is the largest market and still, to like MMA and know anything about it here in the US puts you in the minority.


----------



## IDL (Oct 19, 2006)

joppp said:


> Finally: A lot of other countreys don't have wrestling in collage (and very few MMA/BJJ gyms); very few doors to MMA while you are young (while, again, in the US we see a ton of talented young fighters, often wrestlers).


This is a very good point. The US has had a strong wrestling program for quite some time and Brazil has a strong JJ program. Those techniques transfer into MMA really well


----------



## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

Seems like all Chinese MMA fighters are fighting in that Chinese organization, Art of War (http://www.mmachina.com:81/en/)

I have no idea what the level of the fighters is there, but I find it strange that not a single Chinese citizen seems to be fighting abroad.

Looking through AOW:s rules it seems to me though that their rules are a mixture of UFC and Pride rules, with the notable exception that a fight that goes the distance apparently automatically is ruled a draw. :dunno:


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> I have no idea what the level of the fighters is there, but I find it strange that not a single Chinese citizen seems to be fighting abroad.


I think will be seeing a lot of chinese fighters in the UFC in about 15-20 years from now, when sport becomes more popular there than it's right now.


----------



## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

Couchwarrior said:


> Seems like all Chinese MMA fighters are fighting in that Chinese organization, Art of War (http://www.mmachina.com:81/en/)
> 
> I have no idea what the level of the fighters is there, but I find it strange that not a single Chinese citizen seems to be fighting abroad.
> 
> Looking through AOW:s rules it seems to me though that their rules are a mixture of UFC and Pride rules, with the notable exception that a fight that goes the distance apparently automatically is ruled a draw. :dunno:


They definitely have some hot Asian ring girls.

Good looking Asian girls is my weakness


----------



## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

The only sport I can think of with more international athletes in the US is hockey. There are tons of fighters from all over Europe (Croatia, Armenia, Netherlands, UK, France, Germany), Asia (Japan, Korea, Russia), Brazil and even Africa. I think you don't see more Chinese fighters for a couple of reasons, first it's very much a closed society still, second it's much more difficult to get permission for Chinese athletes to live abroad, and third and probably most importantly MMA as we know it is not that big of a sport over there. In a country of a billion people you would expect to have some seepage, but then again how many Indian (dot not feather) fighters do you see in MMA? Not many, again they have their own sports and MMA probably isn't really culturally relevant to some countries.


----------



## SpecC (Nov 18, 2007)

cplmac said:


> The only sport I can think of with more international athletes in the US is hockey. There are tons of fighters from all over Europe (Croatia, Armenia, Netherlands, UK, France, Germany), Asia (Japan, Korea, Russia), Brazil and even Africa. I think you don't see more Chinese fighters for a couple of reasons, first it's very much a closed society still, second it's much more difficult to get permission for Chinese athletes to live abroad, and third and probably most importantly MMA as we know it is not that big of a sport over there. In a country of a billion people you would expect to have some seepage, but then again how many Indian (dot not feather) fighters do you see in MMA? Not many, again they have their own sports and MMA probably isn't really culturally relevant to some countries.


You are forgetting about basketball! Some of the NBA's top players are from another country. The Spurs are pretty well known for their diverse roster. 

Also, for a Chinese fighter to be good enough to come to the UFC, he or she would also need the approval of his or her training camp and any other people who are close. Being Chinese myself, honor is a huge deal in our culture.


----------



## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

cplmac said:


> I think you don't see more Chinese fighters for a couple of reasons, *first it's very much a closed society still, second it's much more difficult to get permission for Chinese athletes to live abroad*, and third and probably most importantly MMA as we know it is not that big of a sport over there. In a country of a billion people you would expect to have some seepage, but then again how many Indian (dot not feather) fighters do you see in MMA? Not many, again they have their own sports and MMA probably isn't really culturally relevant to some countries.


I think that's pretty much it.

As for Indian fighters, Kultar Gill is the only one I can think of, and he's actually Canadian.


----------



## fightpunks (Jan 1, 2010)

*MMA in China*

mma will mos def blow up in china pretty soon...martial arts to the chinese is as old as time..second nature if you will...


----------



## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

I honestly think it's because China is communist. There aren't many Chinese people who just emigrate to other countries because they don't have the money and/or are not allowed to. And those who have money... why would they emigrate in the first place?

The real question is, why has there never been Muay Thai master from Thailand in the UFC? One would think that he could train some grappling defense and totally own.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I honestly think it's because China is communist. There aren't many Chinese people who just emigrate to other countries because they don't have the money and/or are not allowed to. And those who have money... why would they emigrate in the first place?


^^This^^

And I think another big reason for this is that the Chinese fighters wich are mostly the Shaolin fighters live in a cloister and don't even think about to practise there Kung fu as a Sport. This is more a chinese philosophy for them, not a Sport like it is at most parts of the world. 



> The real question is, why has there never been Muay Thai master from Thailand in the UFC? One would think that he could train some grappling defense and totally own.


I don't understand that either :confused02: The Thais have so many great fighters and nobody practised as an MMA fighter. 

Buakaw Por. Pramuk he is the only famous Thai K-1 fighter I know. And he has beaten many elite fighters! And won many many titels in his career. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buakaw_Por._Pramuk


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Chinese - because they mostly train Kung Fu, which frankly is better for movies than real combat. Doesn't work. I don't doubt that they have the athletic pool and potential to dominate in MMA, their truckload of Olympic medals indicates as much ... but I think there needs to be a popularity of the standard MMA skillset there, Kung Fu just won't cut it.

Thai - There's many famous Thai kickboxers, but unlike Japan there is ZERO tradition of ground-fighting in Thailand. Anyone without any grappling/wrestling experience is toast in MMA. 

If Thailand became a richer place with people being able to cross train more in "foreign" grappling arts like BJJ/wrestling/Judo/*****, IMO we'd see some devastating lighter weight fighters coming outta there. Shit, Buakaw with a solid ground game and TDD would make half the UFC piss themselves.

Another reason is that Thailand is a relatively poor country and Thai people tend to be very small, like FW/BW/Flyweight. The big leagues in the US/Japan like the UFC and K1 tend to ignore the lighter weights, so there just isn't enough monetary motivation for them to move out instead of just fighting in local Muay Thai.

Russians - There's plenty of excellent and well known MMA fighters coming out of Russia like Fedor, Aleks, Igor Vovchanchyn, Kharitonov etc. It's just that they tend to be influenced or controlled by M1 which is IMO Russian Mafia and doesn't like to do fair business with the UFC.


----------



## tlilly (Nov 13, 2009)

I'm born in hk and I go back every year and I can tell you no one knows what MMA or UFC is. The majority of people in hk and china don't have a privilege life like we do in north america. Most people couldn't pay for their kids to take karate or little league soccer. Even in the privilege families, chinese culture focuses a lot more on education than sports. I hate to break it to you guys but Its not like the movies where everyone knows kung fu and catch flies with chopsticks....


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

tlilly said:


> I'm born in hk and I go back every year and I can tell you no one knows what MMA or UFC is. The majority of people in hk and china don't have a privilege life like we do in north america. Most people couldn't pay for their kids to take karate or little league soccer. Even in the privilege families, chinese culture focuses a lot more on education than sports. I hate to break it to you guys but Its not like the movies where everyone knows kung fu and catch flies with chopsticks....


interesting to know... but as far as I knew, Honk Kong is almost entirely different from mainland China? From what I hear, the mainland (outside of Shanghai and Beijing) has a lot more of a traditional feel still, though of course not like the movies.


----------



## tlilly (Nov 13, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> interesting to know... but as far as I knew, Honk Kong is almost entirely different from mainland China? From what I hear, the mainland (outside of Shanghai and Beijing) has a lot more of a traditional feel still, though of course not like the movies.


I go to china a lot too. It is very different from hk. But the mindset of education first is the same. Most places outside of urban areas are still very poor. Kids run around in flip flops cause they can't afford shoes. Sure, if you go to large cities like beijing, shanghai and hk you'll find wealthy people, but most people are still living in what we north americans called sub standard. Because of this, they just can't afford to train martial arts. Martial arts just doesn't pay the bills in china. Even in Brazil you can make it as an mma fighter. There are enough regional shows that can allow for success. This is not the case in Chna


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Russians - There's plenty of excellent and well known MMA fighters coming out of Russia like Fedor, Aleks, Igor Vovchanchyn, Kharitonov etc. It's just that they tend to be influenced or controlled by M1 which is IMO Russian Mafia and doesn't like to do fair business with the UFC.


I don't know, in my opinion there are only nobodies here. Fedor is an exception and major part of that is his stone cold mentality, unbelievable determination, dedication and intelligence. There aren't many people around possessing those qualities and interested in MMA. It's a whole lifestyle. And the other part is that M-1 Global sucks as a solid organization by not bringing the sport on the high level in the country. Look what PRIDE did in Japan during the 10-year run and UFC in the USA. Those countries grow MMA fighters, but here in RF all famous fighters made a transition from *****, they didn't train specifically for MMA, so it's more like, "OK, I did good in *****, maybe I should try MMA". Forget Emelianenko family and Russia has nobody. USA, Brazil and Japan is where MMA is. It always makes me sad that Fedor is the only one.


----------



## wushumma (Feb 20, 2010)

*real china*

I'm not a member here but after reading this I had to reply. I was googling wushu mma, because I recently became interested in mma, and I was curious as to whether any of the chinese styles would be effective or not. I've been in China for more than a year, and the whole communist substandard nation stuff as a reason for why there aren't any chinese fighters is absolutely flat out wrong. Even when you go to the countryside now people are watching t.v. and living in decent houses. Even if you wanted to count everyone living in the countryside as being from the third world there are still a greater number of people living in Chinese cities than in all of america. Although even a "town" here can have 200,000 people. That image of kids running around in sandals while the government controls their every movement is propaganda nonsense from the western media. If I had to guess at the reasons one would be that the chinese just aren't that into sports. That's a generalization, of course, but it does not have even 10% of the obsession with sports that america has. They are obsessed with education. When they take their college entrance examinations parents take time off work to spend all their time cooking, cleaning, catering to their kids every need in the hope that they can get that great score. Actually, I'd say that's the main reason. That, and it's been open for a relatively short time. Also, I think mma is great but I know the Chinese would look down on it from a cultural perspective. Still, I'd be interested to see how their martial arts would do in mma. Since japanese have had some success, I think China would have even better fighters for sure. I watched the east asian games on tv here and china completely dominated. Like I said I think the main problem is they just aren't that interested as a whole. There is one sports channel on tv here and most of the time it is pingpong, volleyball, basketball, or something just completely random. (and pool a lot as filler, that's pretty much the same as the US) For sure their fighting would have to be adapted a lot to succeed in mma. I watched it on tv, they don't hit each other in the face. I think if it became popular here, there would definitely be many successful chinese fighters. Ok that was really long, anyway the whole affluence thing is trash, Brazil has a lot of problems and they seem to be producing good fighters just fine. (and as for international sports, tennis. that might have the most diversity from a nationality perspective, besides soccer of course.)


----------



## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

I've noticed that too. There's a good mix of nationalities except for latino and asian. I can understand spanish since it's not very popular in the latino community but it FLOURISHES in japan. Maybe they don't like the concept of flying across the world to fight or to live in a country where no one understands them. I don't blame them. Even so, Machida is really the only successful asian(I know he's brazilian) fighter. Maybe Okami as well, to a certain extent.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

wushumma said:


> I'm not a member here but after reading this I had to reply. I was googling wushu mma, because I recently became interested in mma, and I was curious as to whether any of the chinese styles would be effective or not. I've been in China for more than a year, and the whole communist substandard nation stuff as a reason for why there aren't any chinese fighters is absolutely flat out wrong. Even when you go to the countryside now people are watching t.v. and living in decent houses. Even if you wanted to count everyone living in the countryside as being from the third world there are still a greater number of people living in Chinese cities than in all of america. Although even a "town" here can have 200,000 people. That image of kids running around in sandals while the government controls their every movement is propaganda nonsense from the western media. If I had to guess at the reasons one would be that the chinese just aren't that into sports. That's a generalization, of course, but it does not have even 10% of the obsession with sports that america has. They are obsessed with education. When they take their college entrance examinations parents take time off work to spend all their time cooking, cleaning, catering to their kids every need in the hope that they can get that great score. Actually, I'd say that's the main reason. That, and it's been open for a relatively short time. Also, I think mma is great but I know the Chinese would look down on it from a cultural perspective. Still, I'd be interested to see how their martial arts would do in mma. Since japanese have had some success, I think China would have even better fighters for sure. I watched the east asian games on tv here and china completely dominated. Like I said I think the main problem is they just aren't that interested as a whole. There is one sports channel on tv here and most of the time it is pingpong, volleyball, basketball, or something just completely random. (and pool a lot as filler, that's pretty much the same as the US) For sure their fighting would have to be adapted a lot to succeed in mma. I watched it on tv, they don't hit each other in the face. I think if it became popular here, there would definitely be many successful chinese fighters. Ok that was really long, anyway the whole affluence thing is trash, Brazil has a lot of problems and they seem to be producing good fighters just fine. (and as for international sports, tennis. that might have the most diversity from a nationality perspective, besides soccer of course.)


extremely informative, thanks for taking the time to join and post. It might be nice if you broke if up into paras though, it's a bit hard to read such a giant block of text .


----------



## Skylaars (Jul 13, 2009)

Once the UFC finally hosts an event in China, prepare for a massive influx of Chinese talent 8-10 years.

MMA in China is going to be the best thing to ever happen to the UFC.


----------



## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

A lot and I mean alot has to do with selling an fighter. I think it's alot easier to hype an US fighter than some jap who is always respectful etc...


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Rusko said:


> A lot and I mean alot has to do with selling an fighter. I think it's alot easier to hype an US fighter than some jap who is always respectful etc...


Yea thats a sad fact!


----------



## devilhunterred (Nov 15, 2010)

wushumma said:


> I'm not a member here but after reading this I had to reply. I was googling wushu mma, because I recently became interested in mma, and I was curious as to whether any of the chinese styles would be effective or not. I've been in China for more than a year, and the whole communist substandard nation stuff as a reason for why there aren't any chinese fighters is absolutely flat out wrong. Even when you go to the countryside now people are watching t.v. and living in decent houses. Even if you wanted to count everyone living in the countryside as being from the third world there are still a greater number of people living in Chinese cities than in all of america. Although even a "town" here can have 200,000 people. That image of kids running around in sandals while the government controls their every movement is propaganda nonsense from the western media. If I had to guess at the reasons one would be that the chinese just aren't that into sports. That's a generalization, of course, but it does not have even 10% of the obsession with sports that america has. They are obsessed with education. When they take their college entrance examinations parents take time off work to spend all their time cooking, cleaning, catering to their kids every need in the hope that they can get that great score. Actually, I'd say that's the main reason. That, and it's been open for a relatively short time. Also, I think mma is great but I know the Chinese would look down on it from a cultural perspective. Still, I'd be interested to see how their martial arts would do in mma. Since japanese have had some success, I think China would have even better fighters for sure. I watched the east asian games on tv here and china completely dominated. Like I said I think the main problem is they just aren't that interested as a whole. There is one sports channel on tv here and most of the time it is pingpong, volleyball, basketball, or something just completely random. (and pool a lot as filler, that's pretty much the same as the US) For sure their fighting would have to be adapted a lot to succeed in mma. I watched it on tv, they don't hit each other in the face. I think if it became popular here, there would definitely be many successful chinese fighters. Ok that was really long, anyway the whole affluence thing is trash, Brazil has a lot of problems and they seem to be producing good fighters just fine. (and as for international sports, tennis. that might have the most diversity from a nationality perspective, besides soccer of course.)


A lot of what he said is pretty spot on, but as a Chinese national I would like to add a few major points that he missed.

The reasons why there are virtually no Chinese fighters in MMA are much more diverse and complex than you may have thought. 

One is the cultural difference. It's pretty apparent that the Chinese absolutely loves martial arts, they are completely fascinated by it and respect it, as seen by the ridiculous amount of action movies and kung fu superstars that come out of the country (Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Donnie Yen), however unlike the West in China martial arts is NOT a competitive sport. MA in China is treated as a form of self-discipline, self-defense, physical training and relaxation (like Taichi). It may sound very strange, but Chinese would actually look down on any martial artists that would fight in a cage for money, fame and for the entertainment of others, while in the West it's perfectly normal. 

Don't get me wrong, sports are huge in China, but only when it comes to badminton, table tennis, volleyball, diving, basketball and even soccer, mostly conventional sports. As I have said before MA is not considered as a sport in China, and not surprisingly it's relatively unheard of here. 


Second is that the Chinese are very conservative when it comes to MA. They would much prefer to see traditional Chinese MA over MMA in a fight, which contains foreign styles that are unfamiliar and strange to them. 

Third, is that it lacks government fundings. Chinese dominate the Olympics because all those Chinese gold, silver and bronze medalists are all full time professionals trained, funded and supported 100% by the Chinese government. They basically get their salaries and wages and all living expenses paid by the government, and in return they are asked to perform well and get medals back for the glory and honor of the nation. MMA doesn't have any of that, MMA is all about personal achievements. And there is no incentives for the Chinese governments to fund and support any fighters.

Fourth, is that it's almost impossible for the Chinese fighters to fly to US to compete in events. In China there are only several ways to go abroad. First is that you have to be able to afford it, and then only if your reason for going abroad is for studying or travelling. The government wouldn't let someone get out of the country if his reason is that "I want to compete in an MMA fight in US". Yao Ming is an exception, he had the backing of the Houston Rockets club, which has substantial financial resources to bargain with the Chinese government for the release of Yao. But for a small time independent Chinese MMA fighter he wouldn't have any of that.

Someone previously mentioned that Chinese MA just wouldn't work in MMA and it's all for flashes and shows and would only work in movies. Being a Chinese myself I have to admit he's partially right, but only the part that traditional Chinese MA just wouldn't work in MMA. I think too many people are brainwashed by Chinese kung fu movies. Traditional Chinese kung fu are rarely just flying kicks and fancy moves, there are some extremely effective Chinese MA like Qin Na, Wing Chun, Bagua Qin, etc which I think would be extremely powerful styles to be utilized in the MMA. However movies are all about the action and looking great and flashy, and Chinese kung fu are often modified to cater to that. But that's not what Chinese MA is about. 

You also have to keep in mind that each culture's MA is designed and tailor made for the local population. Undeniably Asians have smaller physical built and frames than Westerners, and you can see Asian MA reflecting this reality, which mainly focus on flexibility, dexterity, speed and pressure point strikes, which are the Asians' forte, rather than strength and brute force, which Asians lack with their smaller built. 

In MMA where it is dominated by fighters with the best ground game, grapple and strength, traditional Chinese MA are just not suitable to compete. This is especially true as pressure point strikes are entirely banned in the sport (for safety reasons), this gives most Asian fighters an extremely steep disadvantage. This is like asking American fighters to compete in a Chinese MA tournament and telling them that all grapple and submission moves are forbidden. It's nothing less than a serious handicap. 

Yes there are rare exceptions of Japanese or Thai fighters who are doing pretty well in MMA given their Asian physical traits, but you have to admit that they will most likely never win the championship in their respective division, and unquestionably never the Heavyweight title, as there aren't even any Asian fighters beyond the middle weight division: as far as I know of. 

So yes there are many reasons as to why there are no Chinese fighters in MMA. I think MMA as a whole is gradually getting bigger in China, but those events are restricted exclusively to China only and I don't think we will be seeing those fighters travelling abroad to US to compete anytime soon.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

thats super gay for china then


----------



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

devilhunterred said:


> A lot of what he said is pretty spot on, but as a Chinese national I would like to add a few major points that he missed.
> 
> The reasons why there are virtually no Chinese fighters in MMA are much more diverse and complex than you may have thought.
> 
> ...



Sounds like China ain't got a chance for a while....


----------



## SpecC (Nov 18, 2007)

devilhunterred said:


> A lot of what he said is pretty spot on, but as a Chinese national I would like to add a few major points that he missed.
> 
> The reasons why there are virtually no Chinese fighters in MMA are much more diverse and complex than you may have thought.
> 
> ...


Very well put. 

Basketball is a growing sport in China. If you look at how much work had to be put in to convince the most populated nation in the world, then you'll see China is slowly getting there. I'm sure Dana could get MMA there if he wanted to. However, there are quite a few obstacles as mentioned above.

I will say that I don't think China is far. If you've ever had a chance to see a Sanda match, it is pretty damn violent in its own right. The grappling aspect certainly needs work though.


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

K...that was way too long of a post. There's that one dude; Mongolian Wolf or whatever who's undefeated in the WEC. Saw some of his fights. He always finishes...


----------



## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

There are plenty of fighters from around the world.

Martin Kampmann- Denmark
Alexander Gustafsson- Sweden
Yushin Okami- Japan
George Sotirapolus- Australia
Cheik Kongo- France
Michael Bisping- England
Anderson Silva- Brazil
Georges St. Pierre- Canada
Tiequan Zhang (WEC)- China
Gegard Mousasi- Netherlands
Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou- Cameroon
Andrei Arlovski- Russia

There are many more as well. WEC/UFC/Strikeforce don't shun anyone based on where they are from or what they speak. It isn't true that Americans only want to root for americans either. People like Silva, GSP, and bisping are all extremely popular fighters each from a different part of the world.

I think we will start seeing more foreign (Speaking from an American standpoint) fighters come to America as MMA keeps growing and gaining more and more supporters.


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

fightpunks said:


> mma will mos def blow up in china pretty soon...martial arts to the chinese is as old as time..second nature if you will...


Posting in thread resurrected from over 2 years ago by this guy with 1 post!

edit: very interesting post devil. Really cleared up a lot for us I think!


----------



## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Ape City said:


> Posting in thread resurrected from over 2 years ago by this guy with 1 post!
> 
> edit: very interesting post devil. Really cleared up a lot for us I think!


Not really a bad thing. MMA has changed a lot in 2 years and so have the people involved with it. :thumbsup:


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Not really a bad thing. MMA has changed a lot in 2 years and so have the people involved with it. :thumbsup:


right, it is a interesting topic and a lot of things have changed in 2 years, Dana is actually trying to get into china now and with the new lighter weightclassess its very possible that we see many new asian fighters, still will be hard to have many chinese fighters, but with time i think we will have some interesting chinese fighters, they are so small, like the japanese, so FW and BW (flyweight in the future also) might be dominated by the asians:thumb02:


----------



## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Also, if you're leaving China to play sports professionally, you need the Chinese governments permission to do so and even then, they'll assign you the amount of time you're allotted to be out until they want you back. 

Yao Ming was still on the Chinese government's lease while you was in the NBA. 

Appreciate yo freedoms


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Not really a bad thing. MMA has changed a lot in 2 years and so have the people involved with it. :thumbsup:


I just felt the need to point it out because I found it funny that the first thing a new member did was go searching through archives. Not a t a bad thing at all, in fact it may even indicate that he has been reading a lot of the quality stuff here.

I didn't mean it in a negative way at all, but I see how it could have been taken that way. 

Anyways definitely an interesting topic and some really good points being brought up; especially get some first hand perspective like devil gave us! Good stuff.


----------



## dapeng (Jan 20, 2011)

*China MMA*

Chinese MMA fighters are definitely starting to catch up with fighters from around the world, but it's a long process because most are converted Sanda (Sanshou) fighters who have great kicking and punching skills, but are behind on the ground game and jiu jitsu.

We'll see how Zhang Tiequan does against Jason Reinhardt in UFC 127, but there as other great MMA fighters in China like Ao Hailin, Bao Ligao, Li Jingliang and Zhao Zilong, some of whom are ready to make the move to professional Chinese MMA.

Also, beginning in March there will be professional China MMA fights in Shanghai from a brand new MMA organization called RUFF, so there's definitely a mass appeal for MMA in China.


----------



## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

If anyone forgot.. Zhang Tie Quan vs Jason Reinhardt at UFC 127. :thumb02:

Supposedly MMA is banned or heavily enforced in China so its really hard for Chinese MMA fighters to train properly and fight in actual competitions. Just like how MMA was banned in Ontario but training was still accepted, their are plenty of loopholes in trying to get fighters from certain countries, also they have to be good. Thailand well its all Muay Thai there, their is very little interest in MMA in that country (I know personally) and so their very little support in Thais actually learning a ground Martial Art. Who knows maybe the UFC will sign a Muay Thai fighter a la Pat Barry an see how far he can go with just stand up and no ground game... im sure not very far. They gave a Muay Thai fighter from Thailand to feed to Shinya Aoki and it didnt last long. Alot of countries currently have very little interest in MMA or dont know much about it. So it doesent really make sense right now for the UFC to try to put up shop in these locations.

PS. Plus their is alot of corruption in Muay Thai and its almost "normal" now. So if the UFC ever held a show in Thailand, they should be worried about seeing betting slips in the stands and UFC fighters being threatened to throw fights, or they wont make it out of Thailand alive. I know this sounnds like a movie scenario but this does happen more often then people realize.


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Buakaw_GSP said:


> If anyone forgot.. Zhang Tie Quan vs Jason Reinhardt at UFC 127. :thumb02:
> 
> Supposedly MMA is banned or heavily enforced in China so its really hard for Chinese MMA fighters to train properly and fight in actual competitions. Just like how MMA was banned in Ontario but training was still accepted, their are plenty of loopholes in trying to get fighters from certain countries, also they have to be good. Thailand well its all Muay Thai there, their is very little interest in MMA in that country (I know personally) and so their very little support in Thais actually learning a ground Martial Art. Who knows maybe the UFC will sign a Muay Thai fighter a la Pat Barry an see how far he can go with just stand up and no ground game... im sure not very far. They gave a Muay Thai fighter from Thailand to feed to Shinya Aoki and it didnt last long. Alot of countries currently have very little interest in MMA or dont know much about it. So it doesent really make sense right now for the UFC to try to put up shop in these locations.


I guess Overeem is as close as it gets now for a modern Muay Thai fighter at the highest level (K-1) to be a champ with no major ground game. It's obvious he's experienced and understands grappling and BJJ, but it is not his strong point yet he's able to be a champ. Crocop was "it" for awhile. 

Shogun and Anderson Silva are the blueprints. Muay Thai backgrounds with slick BJJ skills. 

As for the Asians they'll come eventually. But as of the last 20 years it seems like the Brazillians have been holding it down. Probably because next to futbol/football (soccer) BJJ/MMA is the next big thing. The Westerners are becoming just as dominant. Remember all the westerners learned the martial arts from the Asians and Brazillians so it's only right it comes full circle eventually. But without stirring up too much debate...GENETICS plays a huge role as well.


----------



## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

No_Mercy said:


> I guess Overeem is as close as it gets now for a modern Muay Thai fighter at the highest level (K-1) to be a champ with no major ground game. It's obvious he's experienced and understands grappling and BJJ, but it is not his strong point yet he's able to be a champ. Crocop was "it" for awhile.


Doesn't REEM have more wins via SuB than T/KO


----------



## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> I guess Overeem is as close as it gets now for a modern Muay Thai fighter at the highest level (K-1) to be a champ with no major ground game. It's obvious he's experienced and understands grappling and BJJ, but it is not his strong point yet he's able to be a champ. Crocop was "it" for awhile.


Overeem has won ADCC Europe so I wouldn't exactly call his ground game "not his strong point". Next to his striking his grappling may not be as good, but he's never been outgrappled except by the best grapplers on the plannet. In fact, if I recall correctly the only guy to really dominate him on the ground was Arona and at that time anyone would have had serious problems dealing with him. He was like the Demian Maia of that time. He also got kimura'd by Werdum, but that fight was on the ground for maybe two minutes with Alistair being on top.


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Chileandude said:


> Doesn't REEM have more wins via SuB than T/KO


Interestingly enough after checking he does. Most are his patented guillotine choke with another being submission from knee strikes. 



Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Overeem has won ADCC Europe so I wouldn't exactly call his ground game "not his strong point". Next to his striking his grappling may not be as good, but he's never been outgrappled except by the best grapplers on the plannet. In fact, if I recall correctly the only guy to really dominate him on the ground was Arona and at that time anyone would have had serious problems dealing with him. He was like the Demian Maia of that time. He also got kimura'd by Werdum, but that fight was on the ground for maybe two minutes with Alistair being on top.


Overall point I was trying to make is that he's a striker first and foremost. 

Back to the subject of Asian MMA fighters specifically Chinese. Think with the sheer size of the population we'll see more and more of em in the future.


----------

