# ***OFFICIAL*** Jake Shields vs. Jake Ellenberger Pre/Post Fight Discussion



## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

*Please direct all threads/posts regarding this fight into this official thread. All other threads will be merged into this one.*​


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

Im taking Ellenberger, and i think he takes Shields out.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

If Shields can take Ellenberger down he will dominate.


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

I cant believe im saying this but... Shields wins via Submission.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

I'm picking the upset, Ellenberger is a dangerous dude I think he may catch Shields with a big punch and finish. I would still be more surprised if won then if Shields won obviously but i'm giving Jake a better chance than most seem to be.


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## SlowGraffiti (Dec 29, 2007)

Shields by decision.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Ellenberger has nice firepower and a clean standing KO is the most likely way to win for him, but past that Shields should be able to impose his skills which are proven against more powerful opponents.

Any man can win but I'm not taking the undedog in this one, Shields via submission.


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## Icemanforever (Oct 5, 2010)

Man I hope Ellenberger cleans his clock.

WAR JUGGERNAUT!


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

This card is so damn weak its pathetic. The only reason I might watch it is to see if Shields will go 0-3 in the octagon.


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

Let's just hope that Shield's head is in the right place, come fight night. I applaud him for continuing with the fight after what he is going through right now, but if his head is in the wrong place I'm imaging this fight to look like Shogun/Griffin two fight.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

I would like to say Shields by submission, he put Miller, a fighter with far superior JJ to Ellenberger in a few dangerous spots, but my expectation is a similar fight to vs Kampmann, or Henderson. 

Shields by Grindfest.


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

Cant believe Shields is going through with this fight though, its perfectly understandable if he wanted to pull out due to his father passing. But the man is soldiering too with a good heart and good character and respects Jake Ellenberger. At least Shields has a valid reason to duck, whine, and cry about himself and his situation.

Sometimes it scratches my head how Shields and someone like Nick Diaz are good friends when they are like the total opposite. Shields does his job and "plays the game", Diaz does not. Shields is fighting Ellenberger, Diaz is not fighting GSP. I can respect someone like Shields or Melendez, I really cant respect Nick Diaz (Nate Diaz is ok, he actually showed up at an autograph signing (see Nick!?) near my house, seems cool). I really want Shields to win now, he should be the face of Team Cesar.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

I think Jake is going to win this fight quite easily to be honest, in fact I would bet my life on that. Mark my words, we will definitely see Jake's hand raised come Saturday night!


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## "El Guapo" (Jun 25, 2010)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> I think Jake is going to win this fight quite easily to be honest, in fact I would bet my life on that. Mark my words, we will definitely see Jake's hand raised come Saturday night!


Yea...


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## Leakler (Sep 23, 2010)

Pulling for Sheild's on this one and hoping he can start to be impressive in the UFC, as he hasn't really been so far.

Sheilds by decision.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I think Ellenberger will beat Shields. I think Shields is going to be way too confident in his hands and will want to stand and bang. He got a lot of hype on his 'improving stand up' against GSP, but that was only because he partially blinded him. I think he sticks with it and gets on the wrong end of a KO because of it.

I also think Ellenberger better be ready to have to crack Shields a few times because anyone who doesn't straight get flash KO'ed by Hendo has a pretty decent chin.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Why wouldn't Shields fight? His dad passed a few weeks ago....what is he going to do, sit and cry for weeks? His dad, and also his wrestling coach his whole youth would want him to fight. 

Anyone thinking Shields is going to stand and trade is delusional. Yea, his dad and wrestling coach dies..and he is going out to get a KO? He will be wrestling his ass off and looking to take home an arm.

Why are people picking Ellenberger? No one in here gave a reason why. Who has he beat? Mike Pyle? John Howard? Why is he a good wrestler? Because he was a div. 2 wrestler? He has fought 1 wrestler of note in his career in Story..and lost. Why are people thinking Ellenberger will just TKO or KO Shields? Shields has been stopped by strikes ONCE in his life...back in 2000.

People here just talk just to talk. Even if they don't know what they are talking about or give any reasoning to their picks.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Why wouldn't Shields fight? His dad passed a few weeks ago....what is he going to do, sit and cry for weeks? His dad, and also his wrestling coach his whole youth would want him to fight.
> 
> Anyone thinking Shields is going to stand and trade is delusional. Yea, his dad and wrestling coach dies..and he is going out to get a KO? He will be wrestling his ass off and looking to take home an arm.
> 
> ...


you want a reason? sprawl and brawl knockout what ellenburgers known for and he wont gas like henderson


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I'm not a big fan of Shields but, his AJJ style *plus* a size and strength advantage seem pretty hard to beat.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Shields will take this. Pretty easily IMO.

Sprawl and brawl won't work on someone with his high level wrestling.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> you want a reason? sprawl and brawl knockout what ellenburgers known for and he wont gas like henderson



And AGAIN the point STILL is.....

What good wrestlers has he "sprawled and brawled"???


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## "El Guapo" (Jun 25, 2010)

Fail to see how see how ellenburger gives up any physical disadvantages. I would bet he is stronger than shields. Jakes TD's are too slow and easily telegraphed, ellenberger will keep this standing. Shields has improved striking but will always lose a striking battle to ellenberger. I'm picking 3rd round TKO or a brutal decision leaving shields busted up to Ellenburger.


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## Icemanforever (Oct 5, 2010)

To count Shields out of this fight would be silly but Im favouring Ellenberger to pull it off for a couple reasons:

Shields had to cut 8 lbs in 30 minutes yesterday, thats an insane amount of weight in that timeframe.

Shields doesn't setup his TD's very well IMO and Ellenberger wont be easy TD to begin with which leads me to think that Shields could be gassed by the end of the first (from huge weightcut), once he's gassed I can see Ellengberger staying on the outside and really laying the leather on thick.

Side note losing a parent and mentor is insanely taxing on your mind, I dont think there is anyway that he will be 100% mentally there and you just cant get away with that at this level of the game.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Damn these two went from 55,000 people to 5,000...


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Icemanforever said:


> Shields had to cut 8 lbs in 30 minutes yesterday, thats an insane amount of weight in that timeframe.


Are you serious? That is insane. That is fucked up. 

Things are looking not too bad for Ellenberger.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Icemanforever said:


> To count Shields out of this fight would be silly but Im favouring Ellenberger to pull it off for a couple reasons:
> 
> Shields had to cut 8 lbs in 30 minutes yesterday, thats an insane amount of weight in that timeframe.
> 
> ...


I'm not really sold on Ellenberger in this fight, to me his ju-jitsu seems to be a pretty big hole in his game Rocha almost took his arm off in their fight and Shields is probably the best ju-jitsu guy in the division.

If Ellenberger stands and bangs his chances go up but if it hits the ground he should be careful, Shields won't be easy to KO either so he's gonna have to fight for it.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

if anyone wants a link just rep or message me


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

UFC_OWNS said:


> you want a reason? sprawl and brawl knockout what ellenburgers known for and he wont gas like henderson


He also doesn't have Hendo's size, strength, big right, his sub defense or Hendo's wrestling credential.s Just saying.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Toxic said:


> He also doesn't have Hendo's size, strength, big right, his sub defense or Hendo's wrestling credential.s Just saying.


Hendo was gassed in that fight remember too, kampmann did alright againnst him too, and this is at welterweight ill show ye toxic


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Hendo was gassed in that fight remember too, kampmann did alright againnst him too, and this is at welterweight ill show ye toxic


Kampmann is a completely diffrent fighter than Ellenberger, Kampmann has some incredibly slick grappling.

You can also expect a diffrent Jake Shields. The one who fought Kampmann was trying not to screw up the title shot that was a given as long as he didn't lose, tonight its a Shields trying to prove that he deserves another shot.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Kampmann is a completely diffrent fighter than Ellenberger, Kampmann has some incredibly slick grappling.


hes not a better wrestler though and his hands arent as good


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I dissagree, I think Kampmans hands are better, maybe not as powerful but technically I think they are better.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Toxic said:


> I dissagree, I think Kampmans hands are better, maybe not as powerful but technically I think they are better.


well i am no fan of mma mayh but ellenburger brutalised and dropped condit a few times in there fight and kampmann was severely outclassed and beat up by condit in their fight.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I thought Kampmann beat Condit and 2/3 judges agree with me.

Ellenberger had the threat of a TD to throw Condit off, mma math never works.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Toxic said:


> I thought Kampmann beat Condit and 2/3 judges agree with me.


pfft kampmann won 1 round, watch it again i saw it only 2 months ago, and i thought berger beat condit


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

UFC_OWNS said:


> pfft kampmann won 1 round, watch it again i saw it only 2 months ago, and i thought berger beat condit


I saw the fight numerous times and thought Kampmann won. Honestly can't really remember Ellenberger/Condit that well but regardless I would bet heavily Kampmann would easily win a kickboxing bout between the two.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Wow.....


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

Holy ****.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

What The Hell


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

That's HUGE! 
Impressive!

HUGE POWER!


I feel sorry for Shields...maybe he shouldn't have fought. Who knows how his mindset was after the drama in his family?!


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Holy shit, that was bad ass,


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Not to make excuses for Shields but having to cut 8 pounds in a half-hour (byebye strength) and his dad passing (byebye mind) I mean cmon.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Predictable, 0-3 in the UFC Jake Shields.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Now we know how good Kevin Mulhall's TDD is.


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## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

osmium said:


> Predictable, 0-3 in the UFC Jake Shields.


1-2, he beat Kampmann


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

rygu said:


> Not to make excuses for Shields but having to cut 8 pounds in a half-hour (byebye strength) and his dad passing (byebye mind) I mean cmon.


Imho...i believe Shields should move to MW.

It's a division much more suitted for him.


I knew that if Ellenberger connects, fight is over.
Picked him by TKO in the CPL.

I honestly believe he is the hardest puncher in the WW division.

Fitch is next for him. 

*He could be the biggest threat to GSP with a bit more experience. *



_PS: Khoveraki...i wanna see that Ellenberger sig now _


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## liveson777 (Aug 18, 2006)

HE got knocked senseless I thought shields was gonna win


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Ellenberger just proved me wrong right there, lethal power and he just swarmed on him. Very impressive, who does he fight next though?


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Wow. 

clearly, Jake Ellenberger > fedor


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

IcemanJacques said:


> 1-2, he beat Kampmann


No he didn't...

Shield's was so overrated and now it is obvious. Hendo was obviously not at 100% for his fight.


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

limba said:


> That's HUGE!
> Impressive!
> 
> HUGE POWER!
> ...


Yeah I give him props for fighting after what happened, but I really can't see anyone being able to go into a fight so soon after that happens with a proper mindset. 



MikeHawk said:


> Now we know how good Kevin Mulhall's TDD is.


That got a chuckle out of me.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Really Jake you still had more fight left? Dude you tried to take down the ref, actually lets clarify that you were trying and failing to take down the ref. You were DONE.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

GSP p4p #1 my ass.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Holy shit, that was bad ass,


im so crazy now am i toxic and wheres that smartass johnnyg saying how wrong i would be


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

limba said:


> Imho...i believe Shields should move to MW.
> 
> It's a division much more suitted for him.
> 
> ...


For sure, I said the same thing when he came to the UFC. you don't beat Dan Henderson at MW then decide to cut to WW. 

Ellenberger is nasty, he threw Shields down like he was nothing. The cut hurt Jake, and like you said MW is where he needs to be.


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

hixxy said:


> Im taking Ellenberger, and i think he takes Shields out.


Quoting for truth


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## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

420atalon said:


> No he didn't...
> 
> Shield's was so overrated and now it is obvious. Hendo was obviously not at 100% for his fight.


He did actually. Or did he get a shot at GSP for losing? 

I don't think so.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Ellenberger just proved me wrong right there, lethal power and he just swarmed on him. Very impressive, who does he fight next though?


I'd love to see him against Koscheck, should he get past Hughes.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I said in another thread that Ellenberger's wrestling (take downs and take down defense) is the second best in the WW division (after Pierre).

The way he just tossed Shields to the side when ever he tried to shoot on him was crazy. He's a monster wrestler and has some deadly power in his strikes.

GSP's recent resume is looking less and less impressive, seriously.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Now onto the motherfucking boxing:fight02:


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

This thread is so full of ignorance it pains me. 

Jake Shields is over-rated? Jake Shields is 0-3 in the UFC? Go and tell Carlos Condit, Yushin Okami, Dan Henderson, and Mayhem Miller how 'over-rated' Jake Shields is. Anyone can be caught. It happens. I really dislike the mindset some so-called fans have... that when a fighter loses, he's a can, or was never really that good. Jake Shields is a tremendous fighter, and to claim anything otherwise is not only foolish, but it's also taking away from an awesome win by Jake Ellenburger. Have a little respect for Christ's sake.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

IcemanJacques said:


> Or did he get a shot at GSP for losing?


That is exactly what happened.

People need to stop pretending the Hendo win was so impressive also. Hendo gassed halfway through the first ******* round because he can't make the cut anymore.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

rygu said:


> For sure, I said the same thing when he came to the UFC. you don't beat Dan Henderson at MW then decide to cut to WW.
> 
> Ellenberger is nasty, he threw Shields down like he was nothing. The cut hurt Jake, and like you said MW is where he needs to be.


Yup.

Jake doesn't seem to make the weight cut like he should.
The GSP is not that relevant in terms of the weight cut, because that fight wasn't too fast-paced.

At MW he would at least feel more energetic.

Now...on to Ellenberger. I really like his raw POWER!
The guy hits like a Juggernaut - lol - his wrestling is excellent and he's not afraid to get into exchanges.

His BJJ is his weak point, but the way he's fighting right now, i believe his opponents should be more concerned about his strong points than his weak points.

I only see GSP being able to handle him right now tbh.

Him vs Rory MacDonald would be freakin EPIC! 

I hope he gets Fitch next.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> I said in another thread that Ellenberger's wrestling (take downs and take down defense) is the second best in the WW division (after Pierre).
> 
> The way he just tossed Shields to the side when ever he tried to shoot on him was crazy. He's a monster wrestler and has some deadly power in his strikes.
> 
> *GSP's recent resume is looking less and less impressive, seriously.*


Absolutely


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> I said in another thread that Ellenberger's wrestling (take downs and take down defense) is the second best in the WW division (after Pierre).
> 
> The way he just tossed Shields to the side when ever he tried to shoot on him was crazy. He's a monster wrestler and has some deadly power in his strikes.
> 
> GSP's recent resume is looking less and less impressive, seriously.


It isn't that GSP's resume isn't looking less impressive it is that there are a bunch of good young fighters moving up in the WW division. Ellenberger, Story, MacDonald, Condit, Hendricks. 

Its going to be really interesting to see how GSP deals with these new threats as they will be tougher competition then he has fought, they are the new breed of fighters that are good in all aspects.


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## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

osmium said:


> That is exactly what happened.
> 
> People need to stop pretending the Hendo win was so impressive also. Hendo gassed halfway through the first ******* round because he can't make the cut anymore.


Seriously dude. Go and watch the fight and then tell me who got his arm raised at the end.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

I'm a big Jake Shields fan but the more I think about it I'm pretty confident he has already peaked and don't expect a whole lot from him in the future. He's a great grappler but his game is so one-dimensional that people can train to beat him simply by using those knees or uppercuts. Ellenberger was throwing EXACTLY what you throw against a wrestler and it was effective. The blueprint to beat Shields is clear and obtainable.

So sorry for Shield's loss. I didn't want his first fight after losing his dad to be his first stoppage.

As to his comments about having more fight left; he was KO'd and isn't going to really know how it all shook out until he watches the tape. I don't fault him for his immediate reaction.

Another UFC night where I sit at 0 credits and a heavy heart. Man, I love this sport...


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Ellenberger vs. MacDonald would be a good shout. Well said, Limba.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

IcemanJacques said:


> Seriously dude. Go and watch the fight and then tell me who got his arm raised at the end.


Kampmann won that fight two people not knowing how to score a fight doesn't alter what actually happened in the fight.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Well I just gotta say was another foregone conclusion for me like King Mo vs Gracie last week, one has power and good hands and the other isn't strong enough to take down the bette rstriker, except ellenburger is very underrated and good and has good wrestling good cardio good power good hands and a good chin and good bjj defense


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> I said in another thread that Ellenberger's wrestling (take downs and take down defense) is the second best in the WW division (after Pierre).
> 
> The way he just tossed Shields to the side when ever he tried to shoot on him was crazy. He's a monster wrestler and has some deadly power in his strikes.
> 
> GSP's recent resume is looking less and less impressive, seriously.


You can say the same thing about Anderson

Where are Cote, Leites? Maia isn't doing anything incredible either, same with Forrest and Irvin, and those two fights are supposed to highlight his career because they're in the LHW division. 

The fact is that the champs face the #1 contender at the time, doesn't necessarily mean they are the best fighter. Did Dan Hardy deserve a shot? No. There simply wasn't anyone else to fight. Now all of a sudden Jake Shields signs with the UFC, Diaz comes over and there's huge number of talent coming in. GSP all of sudden has some interesting matchups.

Shields is a tough fighter to finish, just look at his career. I think a punch caught him behind the ear before the knees, which started the whole destruction.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

So much for GSP clearing out the division. There are still a couple of good fights for him, one being against Ellenberger.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Osmium is right. Kampmann won and Hendo was in terrible shape.

One dimensional fighters rarely stay at the top.


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## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

osmium said:


> Kampmann won that fight two people not knowing how to score a fight doesn't alter what actually happened in the fight.


Look at their records. No matter what happened in that fight, Kampmann has a loss on his record and Jake Shields has a win on his record.

So no, Kampmann did not win.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

420atalon said:


> It isn't that GSP's resume isn't looking less impressive it is that there are a bunch of good young fighters moving up in the WW division. Ellenberger, Story, MacDonald, Condit, Hendricks.
> 
> *Its going to be really interesting to see how GSP deals with these new threats as they will be tougher competition then he has fought, they are the new breed of fighters that are good in all aspects.*


That's why GSP will stay at WW.

All those people who said he cleaned the division out, just because he beat Shields...are crazy.



Fieos said:


> I'm a big Jake Shields fan but the more I think about it I'm pretty confident he has already peaked and don't expect a whole lot from him in the future. *He's a great grappler but his game is so one-dimensional that people can train to beat him simply by using those knees or uppercuts.* Ellenberger was throwing EXACTLY what you throw against a wrestler and it was effective. *The blueprint to beat Shields is clear and obtainable.*
> 
> So sorry for Shield's loss. I didn't want his first fight after losing his dad to be his first stoppage.
> 
> ...


Kampmann did pretty much the same thing, but didn't have the power to finish.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Rauno said:


> So much for GSP clearing out the division. There are still a couple of good fights for him, one being against Ellenberger.


been saying this for a while, condit,diaz,ellenburger,macdonald,ebersole off the top of my head are all tough fights, i dont need to see a useless silva-gsp fight


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

guy incognito said:


> Osmium is right. Kampmann won and Hendo was in terrible shape.
> 
> One dimensional fighters rarely stay at the top.


Oh, well if you and Osmium say so...

_**calls UFC brass to have the record books changed**_


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

IcemanJacques said:


> Look at their records. No matter what happened in that fight, Kampmann has a loss on his record and Jake Shields has a win on his record.
> 
> So no, Kampmann did not win.


I live in the real world so I am not going to accept the wild delusions of other human beings as facts just because someone decided to record them. You keep thinking the world is flat and I'll keep knowing Kampmann won that fight.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Ellenberger vs. MacDonald would be a good shout. Well said, Limba.


Shit yeah I second that motion. 

Although after thinking about it for a few seconds, I think Ellenberger is at least as strong and has KO power, I think he'd beat Rory for sure.


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## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

osmium said:


> I live in the real world so I am not going to accept the wild delusions of other human beings as facts just because someone decided to record them. You keep thinking the world is flat and I'll keep knowing Kampmann won that fight.


Haha yes, you live in the real world. That is why you refuse to accept that Shields beat Kampmann. Even though it is on both of their UFC records and multiple sites. It is in fact captured on video. The winner, by split decision...Jake Shields.

Yeah, you live in the real world. :thumb02:


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

rygu said:


> Shit yeah I second that motion.
> 
> Although after thinking about it for a few seconds, I think Ellenberger is at least as strong and has KO power, I think he'd beat Rory for sure.


Rory is an extremely strong guy also.

He doesn't look like it, but he is strong.

It would be an extremely interesting fight.

But, i don't think it will happen.

Elleberger's impressive win has catapulted him into contender's territory.

And the only one who doesn't have a fight scheduled is Fitch. 


See what i did there?!....


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## usernamewoman (Sep 24, 2007)

now why couldnt gsp do that


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I've been longing to see Ellenberger obliterate Fitch for a long time.

Berger's take downs and take down defense are just too damn good, Fitch has no chance at getting him down.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

IcemanJacques said:


> Haha yes, you live in the real world. That is why you refuse to accept that Shields beat Kampmann. Even though it is on both of their UFC records and multiple sites. It is in fact captured on video. The winner, by split decision...Jake Shields.
> 
> Yeah, you live in the real world. :thumb02:


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## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

osmium said:


>


Still the winner when it comes down to it. And also, watch the third round of that fight. That's why he won.

I'm done talking to you anyway, have fun living in the real world.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> I've been longing to see Ellenberger obliterate Fitch for a long time.
> 
> Berger's take downs and take down defense are just too damn good, Fitch has no chance at getting him down.


That made me think for a a few just how Fitch/Ellenberger would go. You know damn well Fitch would want to take it down but Jake is a tank. 

I do wonder how Ellenbergers cardio is these days, wasn't great against Condit but it could be much better now. I think Fitch would try and grind him for a few rounds as he usually does, but not sure if he could pull it off. Not suggesting Shields is as strong as Fitch, but ffs Jake E. tossed Jake S. like a child. :confused02:


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

So...anyone wanna wear this?!









I see a lot of love for Ellenberger right now.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

limba said:


> So...anyone wanna wear this?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Naw man, u want to make me one of Jon Jones being eat by Rampage( from the n64 game)?


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Nice work :thumbsup:


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

limba said:


> So...anyone wanna wear this?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd gladly take it!

But you guys have to vote for me to win the free gold membership first


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Nothing too impressive about the win. GSP put the blueprint out there on how to beat Shields. I can tell Ellenberger practiced all kinds of take down defenses and counters. Jake should have struck em, clinched only, then go for takedowns in the latter rounds rather than tire himself out which he usually does by attempting tds over and over. I was rooting for Shields, but I had a feeling Ellenberger was going to take it. 

Strong momentum vs a fighter who's not exactly in the right mind frame atm. Some fighters...fight the fight of their lives, I think Shields is going to experience his first slide in his career. He might very well get Fitch, BJ, Kos, or Thiago Alves who can all beat em. They might give em Diego Sanchez once he's healed up....that could be interesting.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

another opponent gsp went 5 rounds with that was handily finished by a game fighter.Yet ppl still say gsp is the p4p best in the world


i dont get it


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## METALLICA_RULES (Feb 12, 2011)

That was an impressive win by Ellenberger, but I don't think Shields was in the right mindset.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

limba said:


> So...anyone wanna wear this?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you wanna buy me a membership i will gladly take it!! :confused05: *Turns head in shame*


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Kreed said:


> another opponent gsp went 5 rounds with that was handily finished by a game fighter.Yet ppl still say gsp is the p4p best in the world
> 
> 
> i dont get it


Indeed.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

No_Mercy said:


> Nothing too impressive about the win. GSP put the blueprint out there on how to beat Shields. I can tell Ellenberger practiced all kinds of take down defenses and counters. Jake should have struck em, clinched only, then go for takedowns in the latter rounds rather than tire himself out which he usually does by attempting tds over and over. I was rooting for Shields, but I had a feeling Ellenberger was going to take it.
> 
> Strong momentum vs a fighter who's not exactly in the right mind frame atm. Some fighters...fight the fight of their lives, I think Shields is going to experience his first slide in his career. He might very well get Fitch, BJ, Kos, or Thiago Alves who can all beat em. They might give em Diego Sanchez once he's healed up....that could be interesting.


GSP to you put the blue print out on how to beat Jake Shields??? Did you for some reason have no clue on how to beat Shields until his fight with GSP?? In all honesty i think a monkey could figure out the strategy on beating Jake Shields. It isnt exactly hard to figure out that defending the takedowns against one of the very best BJJ artist in MMA and possibly one of the very best in the world is a good idea, and striking with Jake "*no sword*" shields, since he has horrible technique, is very stiff and slow, has absolutely no power, and has maybe 3 types of punches he feels comfortable throwing, is probably a great idea. Not to mention Jakes obvious deficiency proper takedowns and lack of defense for haymaker/ wide punches. Elenberger hit him with a wide left and then a short wide right which made Jakes already sloppy takedown a even sloppier takedown. Jake stratched out to grab Ellenbergers neck which left his body in the worst position possible for a knee which is what Ellenberger gave him and then Jake brought his body in a bit to cover which left his face open for a knee.

I dont think GSP laid any kind of blue print out. The blueprint was up for grabs in any decent convenience store. Dan Henderson bought a copy and added on to it, sadly Dan had a missing spine in his fight so even though he came close to building the house he didnt have a main support pillar to finish. Ellenberger did.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

the strategy for beating shields has always been there, sprawl and brawl and I knew ellenburger would be able to do that.

1.GSP
2.Diaz
3.Condit
4.Fitch
4.Penn
6.Ellenburger
7.Macdonald
8.Sanchez
9.Ebersole
10.Kosheck/Shields
11. who cares


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

UFC_OWNS said:


> the strategy for beating shields has always been there, sprawl and brawl and I knew ellenburger would be able to do that.
> 
> 1.GSP
> 2.Diaz
> ...


Wow.. some people think Overeem is the most overrated fighter. I think Diaz is. I think all those guys except MAYBE macdonald (cause he is young still), Sanches,Shields and Ebersole would take Diaz out. I cant wait till a LW Bj Penn beats Diaz. I will make a special thread to gloat, or eat crow.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Wow.. some people think Overeem is the most overrated fighter. I think Diaz is. I think all those guys except MAYBE macdonald (cause he is young still), Sanches,Shields and Ebersole would take Diaz out. I cant wait till a LW Bj Penn beats Diaz. I will make a special thread to gloat, or eat crow.


well eat crow away if you must but let it be know your excuses will be futile when diaz is victorious as penn drew(arguably beat) fitch, and no one can say diaz would not have earned his shot


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

UFC_OWNS said:


> well eat crow away if you must but let it be know your excuses will be futile when diaz is victorious as penn drew(arguably beat) fitch, and no one can say diaz would not have earned his shot


Well even if he does beat Penn... IMO that isnt "Earning" a shot. There are alot better guys out there in WW then Penn. Not to mention a rematch with BJ vs Fitch would probably look like the third round the whole time. If you want Diaz to earn his shot then he has to beat a guy that didnt have to run away from the LW division back to the WW division, which soon enough will have him running back to LW or *FW* or MW or HW!! or retirement  FW would be a good fit for him. Aldo vs Penn would be a heck of a fight. 

But TBH i dont really care if Diaz has earned his shot or not. He has been hyped enough that people believe he is the guy to beat GSP. Thats enough for me to not really care if he earned his title shot or not. The satisfaction of gloating once Diaz gets exposed is enough for me to wanna see him fight GSP.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Well even if he does beat Penn... IMO that isnt "Earning" a shot. There are alot better guys out there in WW then Penn. Not to mention a rematch with BJ vs Fitch would probably look like the third round the whole time. If you want Diaz to earn his shot then he has to beat a guy that didnt have to run away from the LW division back to the WW division, which soon enough will have him running back to LW or *FW* or MW or HW!! or retirement  FW would be a good fit for him. Aldo vs Penn would be a heck of a fight.
> 
> But TBH i dont really care if Diaz has earned his shot or not. He has been hyped enough that people believe he is the guy to beat GSP. Thats enough for me to not really care if he earned his title shot or not. The satisfaction of gloating once Diaz gets exposed is enough for me to wanna see him fight GSP.


well i think condit might beat gsp anyways if his jj works as good as it did against serial lay and prayer stun gun


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

UFC_OWNS said:


> well i think condit might beat gsp anyways if his jj works as good as it did against serial lay and prayer stun gun


Well the safe bet is on GSP but IMO in the last 9 fights GSP has had i believe Condit has the best chance of beating GSP. I think Condit takes a little over 1 out of 4 fights with GSP. So i give him something like 29% chance. Just because i think Condit has a good shot at catching GSP on the way in for the takedown. Everyone is so scared of GSPs takedown that it affects their reflex time. They are so alert for the takedown attempt but thet STILL get taken down every time. I think Condit will realize he is going to be taken down but will throw everything his got before that happens. Sure he will try to defend the takedown but i think he will rely on natural instinct and not focus on it so much. Id be surprised if we dont see another flying knee right before GSP shoots in. I can see GSP using his jab to set the takedown up and as soon as GSP thinks Condit is focused on the hnds he will then shoot for the takedown. But i think Condit is so random that GSP will predict wrong and when he lowers in to shoot there will be a knee flying towards his face. At the very least expect Condit to throw a short knee every time GSP shoots.
I still think GSP takes a decision but i will not be shocked if Condit takes it. I actually am expecting for Condit to at the very least rock GSP. Il be surprised to see Condit NOT rock GSP atleast once.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Well the safe bet is on GSP but IMO in the last 9 fights GSP has had i believe Condit has the best chance of beating GSP. I think Condit takes a little over 1 out of 4 fights with GSP. So i give him something like 29% chance. Just because i think Condit has a good shot at catching GSP on the way in for the takedown. Everyone is so scared of GSPs takedown that it affects their reflex time. They are so alert for the takedown attempt but thet STILL get taken down every time. I think Condit will realize he is going to be taken down but will throw everything his got before that happens. Sure he will try to defend the takedown but i think he will rely on natural instinct and not focus on it so much. Id be surprised if we dont see another flying knee right before GSP shoots in. I can see GSP using his jab to set the takedown up and as soon as GSP thinks Condit is focused on the hnds he will then shoot for the takedown. But i think Condit is so random that GSP will predict wrong and when he lowers in to shoot there will be a knee flying towards his face. At the very least expect Condit to throw a short knee every time GSP shoots.
> I still think GSP takes a decision but i will not be shocked if Condit takes it. I actually am expecting for Condit to at the very least rock GSP. Il be surprised to see Condit NOT rock GSP atleast once.


if condit brings in 5 round conditioning like when he was wec champ he'll win, those big shots will where you down fast and he has 25 minutes to do it, condit only needs one shot to put you out anyways


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

UFC_OWNS said:


> if condit brings in 5 round conditioning like when he was wec champ he'll win, those big shots will where you down fast and he has 25 minutes to do it, condit only needs one shot to put you out anyways


Ehhh.. i think you are reaching and over simplifying it a bit. GSP isnt one of get worn down. I dont see that gameplan being very effective when Condit is going to spend the majority of each round on his back.

Im sorry but i have to ask this AND BE HONEST! what is your estimate prediction % for the main events?? 
I feel like i pretty often see you eat crow for predictions youv made, yet i cant be be sure how often that actually is.
I could be very wrong but i think you are a pretty horrid fight predictor. I think you are one of those people that is more interested in being right about an upset then you are about actually being right about the fight.

That is my OPINION and in no way fact. And dont take that as a diss since i do enjoy you as a poster. You are one of the few people i try to read when im skiming through the pages.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

so everyone here has already forgotten fitch is fighting hendricks?


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Easy money last night. awwww yeahhhhh. Seriously though I called this one a while back. Ellenberger is to explosive for Shields and just as dynamic a wrestler. Couldn't believe he was such a big underdog in the odds.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Ehhh.. i think you are reaching and over simplifying it a bit. GSP isnt one of get worn down. I dont see that gameplan being very effective when Condit is going to spend the majority of each round on his back.
> 
> Im sorry but i have to ask this AND BE HONEST! what is your estimate prediction % for the main events??
> I feel like i pretty often see you eat crow for predictions youv made, yet i cant be be sure how often that actually is.
> ...


well ill go by my past events

ellenburger vs shields right
okami vs silva wrong
hardy vs lytle right
evans vs ortiz right
cruz vs faber 2 right
kongo vs barry wrong
dos santos vs carwin right
nijem vs ferguson right(tuf 13 finale)
rampage vs hamill right
Shields vs GSP wrong
Lil Nog vs Davis right
Jones vs shogun wrong
Sanchez vs Kampmann right
Penn vs Fitch draw
Silva vs Belfort right
Edgar vs maynard 2 draw

so thats 10 right, 2 draws and 4 wrong so i dont know thats like 75% but for the shields,okami and shogun ones i got wrong i had in mind they would use the right gameplans and for kongo vs barry well you know the story.

So no I don't really go with picks for the told you so with upsets(although i do enjoy it) I just have a mind for how i can visualise people winning, i thought shields will be relentless and keep pushing for takedowns instead he tried to box, i though okami would wall and stall until he got silva down and layed his way to a win instead he didnt listen to a word chael told him, i thought shogun would come in with cardio didn't happen. And the worn down bit I meant he would make his body and face get worse and worse with each strike not worn down cardio wise.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> This thread is so full of ignorance it pains me.
> 
> Jake Shields is over-rated? Jake Shields is 0-3 in the UFC? Go and tell Carlos Condit, Yushin Okami, Dan Henderson, and Mayhem Miller how 'over-rated' Jake Shields is. Anyone can be caught. It happens. I really dislike the mindset some so-called fans have... that when a fighter loses, he's a can, or was never really that good. Jake Shields is a tremendous fighter, and to claim anything otherwise is not only foolish, but it's also taking away from an awesome win by Jake Ellenburger. *Have a little respect for Christ's sake.*


Get off your high horse buddy. 
If people think Jake Shields is overrated then they have every right to think that way. 
Shields has not been very impressive in the UFC and almost lost to Mayham who isnt an elite fighter and he beat Dan Henderson who literally looked like he should have been laying in the hospital instead off walking, much less fighting. Yet Dan Henderson came a split inch away from putting Jake Shields away multiple times.
jake Shields even with his wins has always had obvious flaws in his game especially the wrestling and Striking. The most impressive thing Jake has done in his career was get as far as he did with having a very limited arsenal.
So to make a comment like "Have a little respect" is just stupid and completely snotty. People thinking someone isnt as great as you think they are is anything but disrespectful. 






420atalon said:


> so everyone here has already forgotten fitch is fighting hendricks?


I have not read the whole thread but are alot of people saying Ellenberger should fight Fitch next?? 
I do think you are right that Fitch is facing Hendricks next but i also think that is just a verbal arrangement so far. I think the UFC is more then willing to switch things around a bit if it suits them. Sadly unfortunately for Fitch the UFC thanks to Dana White is not very likely to give Fitch a important fight like Ellenberger. I think they would rather keep Fitch in the shadows away from everyones view.





UFC_OWNS said:


> well ill go by my past events
> 
> ellenburger vs shields right
> okami vs silva wrong
> ...


Interesting. Im actually very surprised to find out your prediction %. I do believe you are telling the truth though until i find out otherwise that is. I do know alot of people talk one way then after the fight ends all of the sudden they predicted that all along. Not saying you are one of those people but i think you can understand why im going to be more interested in your future picks.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I picked Shields to win but from that first failed takedown attempt, Ellenberger was obviously too sharp, too strong, and was going to neutralise Shields while landing a lot.

Fight was only 53 seconds but Ellenberger showed a lot of skill and power, WW is very interesting right now.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Nobody has beaten Shields since how long ago in 04 before GSP...so GSP definitely laid out the blueprint just as Carwin/Cain did with Brock. In theory anybody can make claims. But until you're able to analyze the fight live and on video tape the opponent won't be able to see glaring weaknesses. I'm pretty adamant about that. 

Off to Rory now for Ellenberger and Fitch, Sanchez for Shields.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

No_Mercy said:


> Nobody has beaten Shields since how long ago in 04 before GSP...so GSP definitely laid out the blueprint just as Carwin/Cain did with Brock. In theory anybody can make claims. But until you're able to analyze the fight live and on video tape the opponent won't be able to see glaring weaknesses. I'm pretty adamant about that.
> 
> Off to Rory now for Ellenberger and Fitch, Sanchez for Shields.


Lolol

GSP in no way laid down the blue print. Im not sure what weaknesses you think GSP exposed that wernt obvious way beforehand. GSP might have laid down the blue print for *YOU*, but the rest of the world had it for a few years now. (Dont lump the rest of us in with you, start using words such as ME,I,Myself when you speak of blueprints)


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

UFC_OWNS said:


> the strategy for beating shields has always been there, sprawl and brawl and I knew ellenburger would be able to do that.
> 
> 1.GSP
> 2.Diaz
> ...


That is the oddest Top 10 for WW I have seen. How do you have Kos so low? His last fight he lost was to GSP so he drops to 10? No no no. And Sanchez above Kos, hell even mentioned in the top 10?


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

cdtcpl said:


> That is the oddest Top 10 for WW I have seen. How do you have Kos so low? His last fight he lost was to GSP so he drops to 10? No no no. And Sanchez above Kos, hell even mentioned in the top 10?


sanchez beat kampmann and thiago and they are good fighters, kos got destroyed by gsp and beat daley and yoshida to get the title shot that he didnt deserve, besides this is also a list on whos in the best form too


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

It ended pretty much how I expected it to end. I wish I had thought of putting some credits on Ellenberger.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Kreed said:


> another opponent gsp went 5 rounds with that was handily finished by a game fighter.Yet ppl still say gsp is the p4p best in the world
> 
> 
> i dont get it


Well, you're not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer to begin with.

People call GSP a 'P4P Contender' because he'd do to a 'game fighter' in Jake Ellenberger precisely what he's done with everyone else. Beat him. Of course, I don't need to sit here and argue about that, because time will prove me correct.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Get off your high horse buddy.
> If people think Jake Shields is overrated then they have every right to think that way.
> Shields has not been very impressive in the UFC and almost lost to Mayham who isnt an elite fighter and he beat Dan Henderson who literally looked like he should have been laying in the hospital instead off walking, much less fighting. Yet Dan Henderson came a split inch away from putting Jake Shields away multiple times.
> jake Shields even with his wins has always had obvious flaws in his game especially the wrestling and Striking. The most impressive thing Jake has done in his career was get as far as he did with having a very limited arsenal.
> So to make a comment like "Have a little respect" is just stupid and completely snotty. People thinking someone isnt as great as you think they are is anything but disrespectful.


You can get fukced you rambling buffoon. I take no issue with individuals having differing opinions. That's what makes the world go around. I do, however, take issue with the manner in which those opinions are expressed. I use a little thing called tact. Even if I feel a fighter is over-rated, you would never see me come in and undermine his victories or cry out 'lol-lol, he sucks!' A monkey has more class than that. I'm not even that big of a fan of Jake Shields, but it doesn't take a fan to see that he's obviously had a great career and is very good at the skills he DOES possess. Claiming he 'lost' against Martin and defeated an 'out-of-shape' Dan Henderson is such a cop-out it's laughable. It's as though when a fighter the fans think highly of loses, all of his accomplishments suddenly fly out the window. THAT is what I take issue with. 

I'm not going to get into this anymore than I already have with you, because I've seen your posts, and they're often incoherent and infuriating. And that's something I have next to no interest in being a part of. All I will say is that if you think showing these fighters respect, especially one fighting three weeks after his father's death, is 'stupid'... then maybe you should actually set foot in a cage and see what it takes to do what they do, because you come off as an ignorant keyboard warrior and nothing more. 

Have a good one, sport.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> You can get fukced you rambling buffoon. I take no issue with individuals having differing opinions. That's what makes the world go around. I do, however, take issue with the manner in which those opinions are expressed. I use a little thing called tact. Even if I feel a fighter is over-rated, you would never see me come in and undermine his victories or cry out 'lol-lol, he sucks!' A monkey has more class than that. I'm not even that big of a fan of Jake Shields, but it doesn't take a fan to see that he's obviously had a great career and is very good at the skills he DOES possess. Claiming he 'lost' against Martin and defeated an 'out-of-shape' Dan Henderson is such a cop-out it's laughable. It's as though when a fighter the fans think highly of loses, all of his accomplishments suddenly fly out the window. THAT is what I take issue with.
> 
> I'm not going to get into this anymore than I already have with you, because I've seen your posts, and they're often incoherent and infuriating. And that's something I have next to no interest in being a part of. All I will say is that if you think showing these fighters respect, especially one fighting three weeks after his father's death, is 'stupid'... then maybe you should actually set foot in a cage and see what it takes to do what they do, because you come off as an ignorant keyboard warrior and nothing more.
> 
> Have a good one, sport.


There are some posts that come along that just make you smile. Certain posts that just have a ring of truth to them. They are few and far between. This was one of them. Q. F. T.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> Lolol
> 
> GSP in no way laid down the blue print. Im not sure what weaknesses you think GSP exposed that wernt obvious way beforehand. GSP might have laid down the blue print for *YOU*, but the rest of the world had it for a few years now. (Dont lump the rest of us in with you, start using words such as ME,I,Myself when you speak of blueprints)


Anybody else here agree, if not I/ME thinks that GSP helped layout the blueprint. Again in theory everybody may have an idea on how to win, but til they see it actually happen then it's all conceptual. 



PheelGoodInc said:


> There are some posts that come along that just make you smile. Certain posts that just have a ring of truth to them. They are few and far between. This was one of them. Q. F. T.


There's always interesting comments on here. Sometimes they don't make sense at all others do. Eh...what are ya gonna do...lolz!



Canadian Psycho said:


> You can get fukced you rambling buffoon. I take no issue with individuals having differing opinions. That's what makes the world go around. I do, however, take issue with the manner in which those opinions are expressed. I use a little thing called tact. Even if I feel a fighter is over-rated, you would never see me come in and undermine his victories or cry out 'lol-lol, he sucks!' A monkey has more class than that. I'm not even that big of a fan of Jake Shields, but it doesn't take a fan to see that he's obviously had a great career and is very good at the skills he DOES possess. Claiming he 'lost' against Martin and defeated an 'out-of-shape' Dan Henderson is such a cop-out it's laughable. It's as though when a fighter the fans think highly of loses, all of his accomplishments suddenly fly out the window. THAT is what I take issue with.
> 
> I'm not going to get into this anymore than I already have with you, because I've seen your posts, and they're often incoherent and infuriating. And that's something I have next to no interest in being a part of. All I will say is that if you think showing these fighters respect, especially one fighting three weeks after his father's death, is 'stupid'... then maybe you should actually set foot in a cage and see what it takes to do what they do, because you come off as an ignorant keyboard warrior and nothing more.
> 
> Have a good one, sport.


Are you ready...are you ready...lets get it on!!!


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> You can get fukced you rambling buffoon. I take no issue with individuals having differing opinions. That's what makes the world go around. I do, however, take issue with the manner in which those opinions are expressed. I use a little thing called tact. Even if I feel a fighter is over-rated, you would never see me come in and undermine his victories or cry out 'lol-lol, he sucks!' A monkey has more class than that. I'm not even that big of a fan of Jake Shields, but it doesn't take a fan to see that he's obviously had a great career and is very good at the skills he DOES possess. Claiming he 'lost' against Martin and defeated an 'out-of-shape' Dan Henderson is such a cop-out it's laughable. It's as though when a fighter the fans think highly of loses, all of his accomplishments suddenly fly out the window. THAT is what I take issue with.
> 
> I'm not going to get into this anymore than I already have with you, because I've seen your posts, and they're often incoherent and infuriating. And that's something I have next to no interest in being a part of. All I will say is that if you think showing these fighters respect, especially one fighting three weeks after his father's death, is 'stupid'... then maybe you should actually set foot in a cage and see what it takes to do what they do, because you come off as an ignorant keyboard warrior and nothing more.
> 
> Have a good one, sport.


Amen!
Brilliant post


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I'm glad some one else called Sideways out on his overly provocative posts. I can be a dick at times, but I can admit it. The best thing about Sideways is, he genuinely hasn't got a clue. 

"All around nice guy". lolz

Trashing on a fighter when the chips are down (I can't even imagine Shields' state of mind right now) is just low.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I don't know if the juggernaut is really that strong or if there was something wrong with shields but, I was shocked at the way he shrugged off his TD's( not TD so much as grappling attempts) and finished him so easily.

note: it does me no good to put someone on ignore if everyone else insists on quoting the odious, verbose, vainglorious one.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

oldfan said:


> I don't know if the juggernaut is really that strong or if there was something wrong with shields but, I was shocked at the way he shrugged off his TD's( not TD so much as grappling attempts) and finished him so easily.
> 
> note: it does me no good to put someone on ignore if everyone else insists on quoting the odious, verbose, vainglorious one.


Ellenberger's take downs and take downs defense is just THAT good. Check out his other fight's and just look at his shots and defense, it's outstanding.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Ellenberger is an NCAA div. II wrestler, that combined with his raw strength and striking makes him a serious threat. Sounds like somebody?

Koscheck vs Ellenberger needs to happen.


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## ashokjr (Oct 15, 2006)

Ellenberger did well to execute his plan. Nothing to take it away from him.

However, I do think the lack of preparation and commitment from Shields was also a main factor. It just looked Shields didnt prepare as well as he should have. 

Shields father died 2 weeks back and there is no way you can prepare yourself with that heavy heart.

Of course, not an excuse at all. Ellenberger did great but Shields lack of preparation added to his disadvantage.


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## "El Guapo" (Jun 25, 2010)

Shields has always been overrated. Don't get me wrong, he is still a phenomenal grappler and a top 10 WW, but realistically he was never top 5.

Any athletic strong guy with decent TDD can defend Shields sloppy shot and easily outstrike him with mediocre striking skills. As WW is stacked with decent wrestlers who have better striking than Shields he's never going to get near another title shot unless his striking improves massively. Unfortunately the guy isn't a naturally athletic, powerful or explosive enough.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Shields is going to end up getting cut. He's a disgrace to Strikeforce and every fan of non-UFC MMA. He racked up an impressive record only to come to the UFC and look like pure shit. I guess Overeem is the last hope.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Shields has always been a tad bit overrated but he's always been game. For Ellenberger to come out and ragdoll him like that and knock him out, that really says something. 

I'd be VERY interested in seeing GSP vs. Ellenberger


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

GSP vs Ellenberger is a very tough stylistic fight for GSP.

I have full confidence in Bergers wrestling, he might even be able to score a few take downs on GSP if he plays his cards right.

I believe he has the ability to neutralise GSP's wrestling and threaten him with power on the feet. Ellenberger is definitely more dangerous than Josh Koscheck on the feet.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> GSP vs Ellenberger is a very tough stylistic fight for GSP.
> 
> I have full confidence in Bergers wrestling, he might even be able to score a few take downs on GSP if he plays his cards right.
> 
> I believe he has the ability to neutralise GSP's wrestling and threaten him with power on the feet. Ellenberger is definitely more dangerous than Josh Koscheck on the feet.


Ellenberger and Rory McDonald are two guys that I think could match up very well with GSP. At this point, I still think GSP could beat both of them, but if McDonald works on his gas tank and if Ellenberger works on his jiu-jitsu I think they could pose as very viable threats.

Carlos Condit is a violent fighter and one of my favorites, but he's going to get taken down again and again by GSP. I see a 50-44 across the boards for GSP vs. Condit.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> You can get fukced you rambling buffoon. I take no issue with individuals having differing opinions. That's what makes the world go around. I do, however, take issue with the manner in which those opinions are expressed. I use a little thing called tact. Even if I feel a fighter is over-rated, you would never see me come in and undermine his victories or cry out 'lol-lol, he sucks!' A monkey has more class than that. I'm not even that big of a fan of Jake Shields, but it doesn't take a fan to see that he's obviously had a great career and is very good at the skills he DOES possess. Claiming he 'lost' against Martin and defeated an 'out-of-shape' Dan Henderson is such a cop-out it's laughable. It's as though when a fighter the fans think highly of loses, all of his accomplishments suddenly fly out the window. THAT is what I take issue with.
> 
> I'm not going to get into this anymore than I already have with you, because I've seen your posts, and they're often incoherent and infuriating. And that's something I have next to no interest in being a part of. All I will say is that if you think showing these fighters respect, especially one fighting three weeks after his father's death, is 'stupid'... then maybe you should actually set foot in a cage and see what it takes to do what they do, because you come off as an ignorant keyboard warrior and nothing more.
> 
> Have a good one, sport.


Someone caught feelings. :confused05:

Come down from that high horse. Thinking a fighter isnt that good is NOT disrespectful. For you to think thats disrespect is down right insane. Keyboard warrior?? How in the hell am i a keyboard warrior?? Do you even understand the meaning of that term?? Showing these fighters respect is not the issue here. You thinking that if someone thinks Jake Shields is overrated then they are also being disrespectful is. Your post sounds great but its filled with a wholelotta bull shit. And dont call me sport.... you really are on your high horse arnt you.


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

vilify said:


> Shields is going to end up getting cut. He's a disgrace to Strikeforce and every fan of non-UFC MMA. He racked up an impressive record only to come to the UFC and look like pure shit. I guess Overeem is the last hope.


I wouldn't call him a disgrace, but he's hasn't fared well at the top level of MMA, that's for sure. Let's recap his record in the UFC... 

1. A controversial split decision win against against a guy who would struggle to make most top 10-15 list at the WW division.

2. That split decision win somehow entitled him to a shot at the best WW in the world, who then shut him down for 5 rounds. My best guess for this fight was Shields padded record, and the lack of other available opponents for GSP.

3. That sets up a fight with somebody who's ranked around #10WW, who KOs him in 51 seconds. Shields was so out of it he was shooting in on the ref after the fight was stopped -- yet Shields pulled the early stoppage card after the fight. He was in la-la land, no doubt about it.

Props to Shields for holding notable wins over Daley, Condit, Hendo and Okami (and perhaps Miller), but those fights weren't in the UFC. That doesn't take away from the wins -- but they would have meant so much more if they were in the UFC. He beat Condit and Okami before they made the jump to the UFC, and he beat Miller, Hendo and Daley after they were cut from the UFC.

If Sheilds wanted to fight the best-of-the-best he wouldn't have signed with EliteXC when he was 18-4-1 or with Strikeforce when he was 22-4-1. At that point it's time to make the jump to the big league. Personally, I think he was looking for comfortable "pay-days" without jeopardizing his health/career/record/belts. Just my opinion though.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Shields beat Hendo while Hendo was on a 3 fight win streak (wasn't cut from the UFC). He's a legit fighter, just needs to bulk back up to use his strength, which is his grapple submission game.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Ari said:


> Ellenberger and Rory McDonald are two guys that I think could match up very well with GSP. At this point, I still think GSP could beat both of them, but if McDonald works on his gas tank and if Ellenberger works on his jiu-jitsu I think they could pose as very viable threats.
> 
> Carlos Condit is a violent fighter and one of my favorites, but he's going to get taken down again and again by GSP. I see a 50-44 across the boards for GSP vs. Condit.


Agreed. BJJ definitely seems to be the main area where Ellenberger seems to struggle, that was quite evident in the Rocha fight and the Carlos Condit fight. I still think his gas tank is a little suspect too.

Also, you got a link for the quote in your sig? I know what you're trying to do with having it in your sig n all, but I think it's a little unfair to have pheelgood see that quote every time he reads one of your posts (I know that wasn't your intention though).


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> GSP vs Ellenberger is a very tough stylistic fight for GSP.
> 
> I have full confidence in Bergers wrestling, he might even be able to score a few take downs on GSP if he plays his cards right.
> 
> I believe he has the ability to neutralise GSP's wrestling and threaten him with power on the feet. Ellenberger is definitely more dangerous than Josh Koscheck on the feet.


Problem is his lack of reach and technical striking. While Ellenberger does have KO power, GSP is just going to use his speed & footwork to keep the distance open and take him apart from the outside.

It'll be just like the Koscheck fight, another relatively easy win for GSP.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

box said:


> Shields beat Hendo while Hendo was on a 3 fight win streak (wasn't cut from the UFC). He's a legit fighter, just needs to bulk back up to use his strength, which is his grapple submission game.


Henderson was not 100% for that fight... Watch the majority of his fights, he looked out of shape and was extremely sluggish against Shields and gassed out in the first round. Henderson has a history of back problems and it was mentioned during the fight that he had been struggling with them again before that fight.

All you have to do is watch Shields' fights to notice that Hendo was one of his easiest opponents to beat(outside of nearly being KOed early). Either Hendo's tdd is horrible or he had a bad performance against Shields...


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

box said:


> Shields beat Hendo while Hendo was on a 3 fight win streak (wasn't cut from the UFC). He's a legit fighter, just needs to bulk back up to use his strength, which is his grapple submission game.





420atalon said:


> Henderson was not 100% for that fight... Watch the majority of his fights, he looked out of shape and was extremely sluggish against Shields and gassed out in the first round. Henderson has a history of back problems and it was mentioned during the fight that he had been struggling with them again before that fight.
> 
> All you have to do is watch Shields' fights to notice that Hendo was one of his easiest opponents to beat(outside of nearly being KOed early). Either Hendo's tdd is horrible or he had a bad performance against Shields...




You just need to look at Dan Hendersons posture in that fight to know he never should have been in the octagon. The guy looked like he was going through a transformation or something.


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## R_Ares_M (Sep 9, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> You just need to look at Dan Hendersons posture in that fight to know he never should have been in the octagon. The guy looked like he was going through a transformation or something.


 i remember that fight as a hendo fan was painfull to watch


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

aerius said:


> Problem is his lack of reach and technical striking. While Ellenberger does have KO power, GSP is just going to use his speed & footwork to keep the distance open and take him apart from the outside.
> 
> It'll be just like the Koscheck fight, another relatively easy win for GSP.


Ellenberger wouldn't sit back and let GSP jab him in the eye for five rounds he would bull rush him throwing haymakers.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

osmium said:


> Ellenberger wouldn't sit back and let GSP jab him in the eye for five rounds he would bull rush him throwing haymakers.


And he'd be taken down shortly thereafter.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> And he'd be taken down shortly thereafter.


This is where I beg to differ. Ellenberger's wrestling is really, really good. I think it's actually better than Josh Koschecks. (Not referring to credentials, just purely MMA)

I think what Ellenberger needs to do in a fight against some one like GSP is really mix things up, that's the key. If Ellenberger mixed in strikes with take downs (he has an unbelievable shot), he could fare very well against GSP.

He has to make GSP guess, make him think, like GSP does to his opponents. He can't come into the fight from a purely one dimensional perspective and look to stuff the TD and brawl. He needs to mix the strikes up with take downs, and that is actually some thing Berger is very, very good at. IMO second to none only to GSP himself.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

RedRocket44 said:


> I wouldn't call him a disgrace, but he's hasn't fared well at the top level of MMA, that's for sure. Let's recap his record in the UFC...
> 
> 1. A controversial split decision win against against a guy who would struggle to make most top 10-15 list at the WW division.
> 
> ...


Well being a disgrace is something we don't really have control over. I'm sure Shields trains hard and fights his hardest. The fact still remains that his UFC career has been a TOTAL failure. 

There was a lot of hype surrounding his departure from Strikeforce and arrival to the UFC. I was one of those people that defended his 5 yr win streak as legit. I really thought his dominance in SF and EliteXC would at least make him top 3 in the UFC. It didn't work out that way because he was obviously overrated big time.

When Strikeforce finally folds I hope fighters like King Mo, Moussasi and Melendez don't come here expecting anything big. They should just quietly come in try and work their way up and spare themselves the embarrassment of all the big hype and eventual bust.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> This is where I beg to differ. Ellenberger's wrestling is really, really good. I think it's actually better than Josh Koschecks. (Not referring to credentials, just purely MMA)
> 
> I think what Ellenberger needs to do in a fight against some one like GSP is really mix things up, that's the key. If Ellenberger mixed in strikes with take downs (he has an unbelievable shot), he could fare very well against GSP.
> 
> He has to make GSP guess, make him think, like GSP does to his opponents. He can't come into the fight from a purely one dimensional perspective and look to stuff the TD and brawl. He needs to mix the strikes up with take downs, and that is actually some thing Berger is very, very good at. IMO second to none only to GSP himself.


I don't think Ellenberger is going to be able to make GSP "guess" on the feet at all. His reach is short and GSP is good at keeping distance with the jab. Plus, GSP knows he has huge power so he's gonna be super cautious.

Only way I see Ellenberger taking the fight is if he Sherk's him.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

vilify said:


> Well being a disgrace is something we don't really have control over. I'm sure Shields trains hard and fights his hardest. The fact still remains that his UFC career has been a TOTAL failure.
> 
> There was a lot of hype surrounding his departure from Strikeforce and arrival to the UFC. I was one of those people that defended his 5 yr win streak as legit. I really thought his dominance in SF and EliteXC would at least make him top 3 in the UFC. It didn't work out that way because he was obviously overrated big time.
> 
> When Strikeforce finally folds I hope fighters like King Mo, Moussasi and Melendez don't come here expecting anything big. They should just quietly come in try and work their way up and spare themselves the embarrassment of all the big hype and eventual bust.


The thing is, he has beaten top fighters in the UFC. He's beaten Carlos Condit, Yushin Okami, Dan Henderson amongst others. It just seems as if you're implying that now he's in "the big league" he can't handle the competition, when he has quite clearly proved that he has what it takes to beat stellar UFC talent in the past.

People need to give Shields a break. People are quick on the mark to make up excuses for Dan Henderson when he fought Shields, but those same people seem to ignore how out of shape Jake Shields was against Martin Kampman. 

He went the distance with GSP and actually held his own in the striking department for most of that fight. He fought Kampmann when he was clearly in awful physical shape and squeaked out the win. He looked exhausted from just walking to the cage

He just got blitzed by Jake Ellenberger in the first round when there are a lot of other circumstances in his life which are probably much more important than his current fighting career. I'm honestly shocked he still went ahead with this fight, given his current situation. Who knows what was going through his mind for the past couple of weeks? He obviously wasn't mentally stable in preparation for the Berger fight.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> I don't think Ellenberger is going to be able to make GSP "guess" on the feet at all. His reach is short and GSP is good at keeping distance with the jab. Plus, GSP knows he has huge power so he's gonna be super cautious.
> 
> Only way I see Ellenberger taking the fight is if he Sherk's him.


I didn't mean "guess" in the sense that GSP was going to be pondering what kind of strike Berger was going to throw next. I meant it in the sense of strikes/take down transitioning. Make GSP guess if Ellenberger is going for the take down or going to strike (just like GSP does to his opponents).

I have a lot of confidence in Jake's take down (and TDD) ability and believe that he can absolutely take GSP down.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> This is where I beg to differ. Ellenberger's wrestling is really, really good. I think it's actually better than Josh Koschecks. (Not referring to credentials, just purely MMA)
> 
> I think what Ellenberger needs to do in a fight against some one like GSP is really mix things up, that's the key. If Ellenberger mixed in strikes with take downs (he has an unbelievable shot), he could fare very well against GSP.
> 
> He has to make GSP guess, make him think, like GSP does to his opponents. He can't come into the fight from a purely one dimensional perspective and look to stuff the TD and brawl. He needs to mix the strikes up with take downs, and that is actually some thing Berger is very, very good at. IMO second to none only to GSP himself.


I meant more in the sense that if Jake rushed in while throwing wild haymakers, he'd almost certainly be taken down. You give up a lot of form when you rush your opponent throwing wild bombs. That's all I was getting at. Jake's wrestling credentials are obviously legit otherwise.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I meant more in the sense that if Jake rushed in while throwing wild haymakers, he'd almost certainly be taken down. You give up a lot of form when you rush your opponent throwing wild bombs. That's all I was getting at. Jake's wrestling credentials are obviously legit otherwise.


Oh, I see. Yea, if he went in there swinging for the fences, he'd obviously leave himself open for the take down. Therefore he'd have to fight a lot more cautiously against GSP.

Mix the strikes up with take downs, or just completely surprise GSP and spam take downs all night long. (That was Koschecks best bet IMO).


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## kay_o_ken (Jan 26, 2009)

gotta feel bad for jake right now, hopefully some better fortune goes his way soon


elllenberger looked amazing though


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