# Sonnen vs Silva (if healthy) co-main on 167 (Nov 16)



## guycanada (Dec 13, 2008)

Dana told the media at a Fox tour tonight that Chael Sonnen will get he request of Wanderlei Silva (If healthy) to co-main the GSP card, Nov 16 in Vegas.

This 20th Anniversary card is coming together,

GSP vs Hendricks
Sonnen vs Silva
MacDonald vs Lawler

Plus the possibility of Faber vs Edgar or Michael McDonald

UFCONFOX ‏@UFCONFOX 12m
"If Wanderlei's healthy, I will definitely make it UFC 167's co-main event"—Dana White on Chael Sonnen's plea


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

HUGE card coming up


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

guycanada said:


> Dana told the media at a Fox tour tonight that Chael Sonnen will get he request of Wanderlei Silva (If healthy) to co-main the GSP card, Nov 16 in Vegas.
> 
> This 20th Anniversary card is coming together,
> 
> ...


Is Faber considering a jump to FW again? or is Frankie going down?


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Does anyone know wandy's health situation?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Hate this fight so much. Wandy doesn't have the TDD to deal with Sonnen. This is only going to be fun for a few psychotic bastards that find a way to dislike Wandy.


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## guycanada (Dec 13, 2008)

Stun Gun said:


> Is Faber considering a jump to FW again? or is Frankie going down?


Faber knows he may not get a title shot again, he stated he wanted big fights, Edgar was a name mentioned...(at 145)

It was the flavor of the month before FS1, since the focus is on Faber vs McDonald


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

What's the status of Cruz? Because Faber is doing a lot more in the division thab Cruz is and it's time for a interim belt imo. Either that or strip Cruz with an immediate title shot when he returns.

Sent from my GT-S5660 using VerticalSports.Com App


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Apparently returning in jan or feb last I heard


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

As strange as it sounds I would have picked Wand over Shogun against Chael. This is based on past fights with them. Shogun ALWAYS gets taken down. Then he does the same butt scoot, clasp, and sweep technique. Come to think of it, it's like he hasn't quite evolved in the last decade with the exception of the Machida I fight. That was the only time ever that he employed a more conservative game plan. 

If it's a main event I'd say 60/40 Chael. If it's a three rounder then 80/20 Chael. Wand needs as much time as he can get to throw that one hail mary shot. The Wand that I know is dangerous in all rounds cuz he fights with PURE HEART even when he's at the brink of defeat. Just look at Wandy against Stann. I knew he had a better chance at 205 as I predicted, but cmon if we had to bet real money I'm sure most would have gone with Stann. 

I just hope Wand will have unlimited cardio for this bout. He's gonna need it.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I bet on wandy int hat fight and hunt in the previous, but wandy gets stomped by chael, but this time not by sub by continuous full posture GNP shots


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

Sonnen via utter domination.

Would prefer to see Faber vs Edgar first. I doubt Mayday is ready for another number one contender match yet. If he gets a win over Faber ( which I think is unlikely ), and loses to Barao again, it will be difficult for him to get a third try in the future.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

The card looks great so far, unlike Wanderlei's chances against Sonnen. Bad bad matchup for any Wand fan.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

The rational mind says Sonnen takes this very very easily. 

However I'm getting that weird feeling again that Sonnen is talking himself into pressure and will be his own undoing. We'll see how it pans out closer to the fight, but I might pick Wanderlei purely based on the mental aspect of the fight lead in.

People love Chael's over the top trash talk but forget that the guy has lost EVERY SINGLE FIGHT where he disrespected the other guy, some by pure pressure and stupidity after dominating the majority or start of the fight. Anderson x 2, Filho 1, Jones, Maia etc. He also does very well whenever he gives his opponents respect like Okami, Shogun, Miller, Marquardt, Stann, Bisping etc. 

Of course the fighter's styles play the major part in those losses as well, but it's still a major coincidence. Chael may love to be the bad guy, but he does better as the good.


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## Black_S15 (Jul 14, 2010)

if wandy cant connect then its going to be a tough night for him on his back.. depending on wandys cardio, my money is on chael via submission.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I'd be very surprised if Wand beats chael... very surprised.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> The rational mind says Sonnen takes this very very easily.
> 
> However I'm getting that weird feeling again that Sonnen is talking himself into pressure and will be his own undoing. We'll see how it pans out closer to the fight, but I might pick Wanderlei purely based on the mental aspect of the fight lead in.
> 
> ...


the coincidence is that chael trash talking the opponents he has lost too lately is that they are pretty much GOAT in anderson silva and um.... that's really the only guy he has trashed that he has faced. He gave jones respect from tuf onwards, Maia fight none of them even got to promote it since it was an opener to a ppv card, filho i didn't watch the wec back then live so i wouldn't know.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Faber vs. Edgar is a bit of a dream match, for me at least. Definitely excited for that one. 

And Chael via IT'S CLOBBERIN' TIME!


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

UFC_OWNS said:


> the coincidence is that chael trash talking the opponents he has lost too lately is that they are pretty much GOAT in anderson silva and um.... that's really the only guy he has trashed that he has faced. He gave jones respect from tuf onwards, Maia fight none of them even got to promote it since it was an opener to a ppv card, filho i didn't watch the wec back then live so i wouldn't know.


Anderson was GOAT but Chael was beating him till he brainfarted, almost certainly in the first fight with the last minute sub, and some would argue the dumb spinning backfist in the second. He didn't lose because Anderson had the best style to beat him, quite the contrary, Chael's style was tailormade to beat Anderson. He lost because he cracked mentally, badly, both times.

Chael talked mad trash leading up to the Filho fight as well. That was actually the rise of the new trash talking Chael, not when he came to the UFC. Before this fight he was a regular joe fighter, but in this one he turned it up, talked about how Filho was a scrub, how he put his picture his shoe so he stomps on him all day etc. Again, same story as the Anderson fight, tools him all night then chokes on an armbar in the last round while taking chances for no reason.

He kinda sorta made up to Jones on TUF but the fact is Jones was probably one of his biggest targets, all the way leading up to the cancelled show. Of course this was Jones who would have thrashed him anyway, so not as much of a pattern there.

Not sure about Maia but at that point he was already talking trash about Brazil and BJJ in general but dunno I'll have to look and see if I can find something about that buildup.

Anyway I do think it's a pattern if a small one, Chael cracks under his own talk.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I think it's more chael having a rush of blood to the head a few times or he can get mentally frazzled at times and then he makes mistakes. Either way he's a lot better fighter than the haters like to give him credit for, and if he was as mentally strong like cain i'd say he would have about 7 more wins in place of his losses at least


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

"The Axe Murderer" via axe murder.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

It makes me sad to think of Wandy retiring after a humiliating, one sided loss.

he should have quit with Stann


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

I hope Edgar vs Faber gets booked. That's one hell of a fight. Fight of the year, in my opinion.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

oldfan said:


> It makes me sad to think of Wandy retiring after a humiliating, one sided loss.
> 
> he should have quit with Stann


Hate to say it but I agree. If Wandy wants to keep taking fun fights then all the power to him, but this fight really makes no sense at all. Sonnen has only lost to champions in the past 4 years where as Wandy has literally been a coin toss in the UFC. 

I just don't see how Wandy is going to stay off his back, I really don't. Wandy is my goat, I got a picture of him signed and framed on my wall next to me. But I just don't think this is a smart move for him.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

oldfan said:


> It makes me sad to think of Wandy retiring after a humiliating, one sided loss.
> 
> he should have quit with Stann


Yeah, he's had some great moments in the UFC. I don't see anything good coming out of this. Sonnen will smother him, and should be able to sub him. I think Wanderlie at this stage brings much less to the table than Shogun. His only shot is to sub Sonnen off his back. Can't see that happening with today's Sonnen. And he's going to get verbally massacred in the buildup. The only MW's I see beating Sonnen are Machida (assuming he can drop successfully), Weidman and Anderson. 

I'd actually like to see Wandi just retire now. He doesn't need this.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Wand's coming off a win in where he knocked Brian Stann out, which is something his next opponent is certainly going to be prone to if he's not careful.


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## BigPont (Nov 19, 2007)

Sad to say but it looks like Silva is ducking. Dana said he wants PPV points to fight Chael and that's not happening. Wandy aint selling PPVs no more and he's not even the main event.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

.......well....damn....

the losers can deny his greatness... but when the Ax Murderer is afraid to fight you.....

BOOM!:laugh:


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

Wait, Wanderlei isn't already getting PPV points? And they don't think Silva vs Sonnen has drawing power? WTF is wrong with Zuffa? Pay that guy! Pay him residuals for the thousands of people who wouldn't even be MMA fans at all if not for him choosing to fight for promotions like theirs. What a ******* joke. Cheap shysters hurting the sport with their own greed continues.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I see nothing wrong with Wandy wanting PPV points. Anyone that says he's ducking is crazy. Pretty sure Zuffa will make a massive profits even if they paid the guy.


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## joeychizzle (Aug 13, 2013)

I hope to god Wanderlei doesn't get subbed. If he does my laptop is going to suffer badly!!
Both Wanderlei and Shogun have bad knees nowadays, but it seems Wanderlei is still willing to use his, evidenced in the Stann fight. If Silva manages to sharpen his cardio, TDD and submissions he might have a chance. WAR AXE MURDERER!!

oh what the **** am I talking about.. another decision by chael. or will he tire out Silva and choke him?


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Dana should give up his 10% cut for this PPV. Wanderlei's earned it, with his three FOTN's, Chael's earned it for "stepping up"..it's one bloody PPV.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Here he says he wants an opponent that will get him as close to title shot as possible. Who can do that better than chael?

here he says he wants to hurt Chael






don't they sign compensation deals??

when you've said all that and then want to renegotiate ....


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Not the Silva I first thought...

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Wand's done a lot and deserves a bigger slice of the pie but already according to a few idiots it's because he's really ducking Sonnen who gets paid handsomely for mostly running his mouth.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Rauno said:


> What's the status of Cruz? Because Faber is doing a lot more in the division thab Cruz is and it's time for a interim belt imo. Either that or strip Cruz with an immediate title shot when he returns.
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5660 using VerticalSports.Com App


Rauno, I have a friend named Renan Pegado, you should google him.

:thumb02:


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

I thought Silva wanted to beat up Sonnen so badly. Why ask for PPV points when you have the chance to fight someone you have despised for so long? If he puts in a good performance I'm sure he will be paid handsomely. I sure hope he ain't ducking Sonnen after all that trash talk.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using VerticalSports.Com App


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Because this could be his last main event and he's helped promote and build it for years. 

Because he's main evented his last two events where he gave FOTN and possible FOTY.

Because 167 should do over a million buys and Wanderlei knows he can retire on that money.

The UFC has retired so many main eventers and with the expansion of the four new weight classes has taken away the opportunity of fighters to get those big PPV/Sponsor bonuses I can see Wanderlei playing a little hardball.

The UFC paid James Toney the very least they should do is pay a guy that has been money in the bank for them over the last few years.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Silva isn't hurting for money. He's afraid that the man who just destroyed his best friend will retire him in embarrassing fashion. If money was always an issue, he shouldn't have talked all of that good stuff about wanting to hurt Chael. 

Sonnen makes bank because he steps up and fights anyone, anywhere. You know, like a true fighter. Wand is a bitch.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

John8204 said:


> Because this could be his last main event and he's helped promote and build it for years.
> 
> Because he's main evented his last two events where he gave FOTN and possible FOTY.
> 
> ...


this isn't a main event, that would be GSP vs hendricks, it's a co main and wandy has no ppv pull anyways


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## Pillowhands (Mar 10, 2012)

Dana White should offer the money needed to book this fight. Sonnen needs to fulfill his thrash talk into a solid win over Silva.


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## Pillowhands (Mar 10, 2012)

OHKO said:


> I thought Silva wanted to beat up Sonnen so badly. Why ask for PPV points when you have the chance to fight someone you have despised for so long? If he puts in a good performance I'm sure he will be paid handsomely. I sure hope he ain't ducking Sonnen after all that trash talk.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using VerticalSports.Com App


Sounds like ducking to me.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Pillowhands said:


> Sounds like ducking to me.


Why not have you're cake and eat it also? If Chael is getting PPV points I think it's only fair Wandy has it also. Wandy has headline or co headline every event he has fought in since returning to the ufc. This fight is going to sell, in fact I think this fight is good enough to headline a card on its own. 

I don't get why people are bringing in Wandy said he wants to beat chael up,etc. This is the fight business, and these guys do whatever to sell fights.


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## 3DLee (Aug 30, 2006)

The problem isn't what Wandy wants. The problem is that Wandy is under contract and should honor the agreement he has already signed and made. Why is that such a problem for people? No one force Wanderlei to sign a deal where doesn't get PPV points. That was a bad move on his part if that is the case. Wanderlei certainly deserves it with his fun fighting style. But if his negotiation skills suck, well that's just too bad. Youre under contract, honor your deal, and go after a better deal next time. Or retire.

And for the record; I love watching Wandy fight. Ive been a fan of his for a long time. But this is madness making demands like this just for 1 fight. Doesn't that seem a little crazy to any body else? You mean to tell me Wandy is demanding something for a fight with Chael that he wouldn't demand for a fight against anyone else? Wandy has fought killers in the UFC. What makes this fight different that he has such different demands? Either Wandy is trying to pull a crazy little hat trick or he realizes that Chael very well could beat him and he wonts no part of it. I'll never say that Wandy is scared of anyone, but this is a really baffling move on Wandy's part.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

3DLee said:


> The problem isn't what Wandy wants. The problem is that Wandy is under contract and should honor the agreement he has already signed and made. Why is that such a problem for people? No one force Wanderlei to sign a deal where doesn't get PPV points. That was a bad move on his part if that is the case. Wanderlei certainly deserves it with his fun fighting style. But if his negotiation skills suck, well that's just too bad. Youre under contract, honor your deal, and go after a better deal next time. Or retire.
> 
> And for the record; I love watching Wandy fight. Ive been a fan of his for a long time. But this is madness making demands like this just for 1 fight. Doesn't that seem a little crazy to any body else? You mean to tell me Wandy is demanding something for a fight with Chael that he wouldn't demand for a fight against anyone else? Wandy has fought killers in the UFC. What makes this fight different that he has such different demands? Either Wandy is trying to pull a crazy little hat trick or he realizes that Chael very well could beat him and he wonts no part of it. I'll never say that Wandy is scared of anyone, but this is a really baffling move on Wandy's part.


Wandy's contract also states that he has the right to turn down any fight unless he is the champion, and the negotiating table is very much open to him if the UFC wants to force a particular fight or a particular date. So no, it is not his "contractual obligation" to take any fight by the UFC, his obligation is only to fight a certain number of fights with the company, not whichever fight they offer him or whenever they want it.

Note that all articles about this fight said Sonnen called out Wanderlei for this card and Dana is down ... what about Wanderlei, is he chopped liver? This guy's style and aggression selling the fight as much as Sonnen, why does Dana only entertain Sonnen's demands like which card to fight on etc. which are clearly motivated by money? 

It is obvious that bolstering an existing great event with a GSP fight against his most dangerous opponent ever, on an anniversary card, is a HUGE PPV cut. Why should Wanderlei just play along to line Sonnen or for that matter Dana's pockets? Just because Chael called him a pile of crap? Oh that's great, let's just repay disrespect with a million bucks for him and nothing for yourself, that'll teach him!

He is well aware how much the UFC would make from the kind of buildup Wanderlei and Sonnen already have, his legacy, and his entertaining blitz fight style. If he wants to negotiate that is his right and fine.



Canadian Psycho said:


> Silva isn't hurting for money. He's afraid that the man who just destroyed his best friend will retire him in embarrassing fashion. If money was always an issue, he shouldn't have talked all of that good stuff about wanting to hurt Chael.
> 
> Sonnen makes bank because he steps up and fights anyone, anywhere. You know, like a true fighter. Wand is a bitch.


If Sonnen is such a "true fighter" who just fights and calls out whoever he wants, then why not just fight on a random free fight night card tough guy? Better yet, just duke it out on the streets when Wanderlei called you out in the van, instead of thanking him and pissing yourself then, and talking behind twitter and now a ref for safety. It's all an act, a show, and Wanderlei's not falling for it unless he is cut in on it.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> Wandy's contract also states that he has the right to turn down any fight unless he is the champion, and the negotiating table is very much open to him if the UFC wants to force a particular fight or a particular date. So no, it is not his "contractual obligation" to take any fight by the UFC, his obligation is only to fight a certain number of fights with the company, not whichever fight they offer him or whenever they want it.
> 
> Note that all articles about this fight said Sonnen called out Wanderlei for this card and Dana is down ... what about Wanderlei, is he chopped liver? This guy's style and aggression selling the fight as much as Sonnen, why does Dana only entertain Sonnen's demands like which card to fight on etc. which are clearly motivated by money?
> 
> ...


wand hardly deserves a cut, Sonnen deserves the cut because he is a promotion monster and wand isn't so wand doesn't deserve a cent of it. Hendricks doesn't get 50/50 of GSP's points because he is the challenger. Also sonnen has been fighting and beating better opponents than wand while wand has been losing to chris leben and rich franklin in his home country etc.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> If Sonnen is such a "true fighter" who just fights and calls out whoever he wants, then why not just fight on a random free fight night card tough guy? Better yet, just duke it out on the streets when Wanderlei called you out in the van, instead of thanking him and pissing yourself then, and talking behind twitter and now a ref for safety. It's all an act, a show, and Wanderlei's not falling for it unless he is cut in on it.


Because Chael Sonnen isn't some street fighting thug. This isn't Brazil. He challenged Wanderlei - in front of the world I might add - to step into the cage and do what both men do professionally. And Wanderlei bitched out.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Because Chael Sonnen isn't some street fighting thug. This isn't Brazil. He challenged Wanderlei - in front of the world I might add - to step into the cage and do what both men do professionally. And Wanderlei bitched out.


Oh he's not a thug my bad, the whole Chael "gangster from West Linn" Sonnen thing must be another lame routine then. Don't blame him, Chael "only knows how to piss himself in real life" Sonnen doesn't quite have the same ring to it. 

Great challenge he issued that. He even picked out a nice date, to share with an actual champ whose boots he isn't worthy of shining, how nice of him. Maybe he can ride on this champ's coattails now that the other two have already booted his ass off.

What a crazy off the cuff fighter he his. When someone calls him out to his face, that's just thuggery bro! You gotta slink away and say your thank yous! Don't forget to sound totally meek and scared, that's how real men do it! When Chael P sonnen does manly callouts in the heat of the moment, he actually has the date and card planned out to share with the world. It's almost like an invitation for a baby shower instead of a fight callout. Wanderlei turning it down for not getting paid is sooo uncool. At the very least he should have RSVPed on some nice pink paper, where are his manners?


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> If Sonnen is such a "true fighter" who just fights and calls out whoever he wants, then why not just fight on a random free fight night card tough guy? Better yet, just duke it out on the streets when Wanderlei called you out in the van, instead of thanking him and pissing yourself then, and talking behind twitter and now a ref for safety. It's all an act, a show, and Wanderlei's not falling for it unless he is cut in on it.



It's funny hearing all the dumb Sonnen fans saying Wand of all people is scared of Sonnen or anyone really. This is the same fighter who has fought in some of the most epic wars in MMA history and now that he's going to be one of the headliners of a proposed big fight they're acting like he shouldn't get paid when everyone knows the ass hat he might be facing gets paid for running his mouth, despite DW denying so.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

BOOM said:


> It's funny hearing all the dumb Sonnen fans saying Wand of all people is scared of Sonnen or anyone really. This is the same fighter who has fought in some of the most epic wars in MMA history and now that he's going to be one of the headliners of a proposed big fight they're acting like he shouldn't get paid when everyone knows the ass hat he might be facing gets paid for running his mouth, despite DW denying so.


It's funny how you cling to every sonnen thread like the obsessed creep you are, I bet you secretly put lipstick on at night and kiss your poster of chael while whispering you've got a fan in me.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

UFC_OWNS said:


> It's funny how you cling to every sonnen thread like the obsessed creep you are, I bet you secretly put lipstick on at night and kiss your poster of chael while whispering you've got a fan in me.



What's funny is how the Sonnen noobs around here take everything to heart when people who know what they're talking about question their reasoning. For example you just said Wand doesn't deserve money but Sonnen does, below is what Sonnen has done and what Wand has done.




> Chael Sonnen
> 
> Ultimate Fighting ChampionshipFight of the Night*(Two times)Submission of the Night*(One time)Gladiator ChallengeGladiator Challenge Light Heavyweight Championship (One time)[67]DangerZoneDangerZone Light Heavyweight Championship (One time)[67]DangerZone Light
> Heavyweight Tournament WinnerHitman Fighting ProductionsHitman Light HeavyweightChampionship (One time)[67]World MMA AwardsFight of the Year (2010)*vs.*Anderson Silva*on August 17Wrestling Observer Newsletter awardsBest on Interviews*(2010)[96]
> ...



You're right though, Sonnen deserves the money but it's clearly Wand who is more deserving of anything by a landslide and then some. Sonnen gets respect because he beat some middle of the pack fighters, got some big fights because of his mouth in which he got demolished and does the clown act to appease fans who don't know any better.

Meanwhile Wand has been knocking out fools like Sonnen his entire career, has actually held a title, defended it for 5 years and has a resume Sonnen can only dream of having but yet Wand does'nt deserve money?

:laugh:


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Wand also brutally lost in under 30 seconds to Chris Leben...jus sayin


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

BOOM said:


> Meanwhile Wand has been knocking out fools like Sonnen his entire career


Aside from the last 10 years, where he hasnt beaten anybody of note... Of course, when I say "of note" I'm going by your own high standards, not mine.


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

this story weeds the shills from people who give a shit.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Soojooko said:


> Aside from the last 10 years, where he hasnt beaten anybody of note... Of course, when I say "of note" I'm going by your own high standards, not mine.



Interesting that you completely ignored Wand's entire career accomplishments and yet here you are trying to somehow downplay Wand when Sonnen has accomplished nothing compared to Wand at any point during his career. This ignoring theme seems to come up quite often with Sonnen fans for some reason.

If Wand hasn't beaten anyone of note then what does that make Sonnen considering Sonnen has only beat the same fighters (Stann, Bisping) that a well past his prime Wand has in recent times?


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

BOOM said:


> Interesting that you completely ignored Wand's entire career accomplishments and yet here you are trying to somehow downplay Wand when Sonnen has accomplished nothing compared to Wand at any point during his career. This ignoring theme seems to come up quite often with Sonnen fans for some reason.
> 
> If Wand hasn't beaten anyone of note then what does that make Sonnen considering Sonnen has only beat the same fighters (Stann, Bisping) that a well past his prime Wand has in recent times?


Steady on. I was merely responding to you saying hes been "knocking out fools like Sonnen his entire career". Nothing more. Nothing less.

EDIT
What on earth makes you think im a Sonnen fan?


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## 3DLee (Aug 30, 2006)

Liddellianenko said:


> Wandy's contract also states that he has the right to turn down any fight unless he is the champion, and the negotiating table is very much open to him if the UFC wants to force a particular fight or a particular date. So no, it is not his "contractual obligation" to take any fight by the UFC, his obligation is only to fight a certain number of fights with the company, not whichever fight they offer him or whenever they want it.
> 
> Note that all articles about this fight said Sonnen called out Wanderlei for this card and Dana is down ... what about Wanderlei, is he chopped liver? This guy's style and aggression selling the fight as much as Sonnen, why does Dana only entertain Sonnen's demands like which card to fight on etc. which are clearly motivated by money?
> 
> ...


I never said that Wanderlei couldn't turn down fights. I just said that he agreed to fight for certain dollar figures and you even agree with me on that. I have no problem with Wandy turning down fights. I just have a problem with him saying he will only fight a certain person for more money than he has already agreed to. The questions that we don't have an answer to are would Wandy fight Chael on a free card? Would Wandy fight on this card if it were against a different opponent, maybe one that wouldn't draw as well? We simply don't have the answers to that. I mean, look at Chael Sonnen. He just fought Shogun Rua in the main event of a free card. He also fought Bisping on a free card. It just come down to this: If Wanderlei fights again, it will probably be for the amount he already signed the contract for. Why wouldn't that person be Chael Sonnen? Look at the list of people Wanderlei has fought on PPV. Rampage, Rich Franklin, Chuck Liddell, and this issue has never come up (in the public, any way) before? 

And I LOVE me some Wandy. One of my favorite fighters to watch. This is just kind of a silly thing for him to do in my opinion. I do not in any way think that Wandy is scared to fight Chael. Nothing in Wandy's history shows that hed be scared of any man. I just think its a dishonorable business move. 


P.S. to whoever cussed at me and neg repped me for giving my opinion on an issue and didn't leave your name, that was hoe move. :hug:


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## lights out 24 (Jul 23, 2012)

Wand isn't scared to fight anyone. Back in pride & the open weight tournaments we saw wand fight mark hunt, cro cop, arona to name a few who were a lot bigger. both of these guys are my favorite fighters & would love to see them throw down. I'm all for wand trying to squeeze more money from the tight wad Ufc. They can cut you at anytime so why can't you try to get more $ if you're able to? These guys will fight it's only a matter of when.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

lights out 24 said:


> Wand isn't scared to fight anyone. Back in pride & the open weight tournaments we saw wand fight mark hunt, cro cop, arona to name a few who were a lot bigger. both of these guys are my favorite fighters & would love to see them throw down. I'm all for wand trying to squeeze more money from the tight wad Ufc. They can cut you at anytime so why can't you try to get more $ if you're able to? These guys will fight it's only a matter of when.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


This isn't pride anymore sadly...

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Life B Ez said:


> This isn't pride anymore sadly.


You're right it's turned into where a fighter gets paid because of talking instead of what they've actually done. Sad indeed.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

What I don't think people are considering is that the reason Wanderlei want's PPV points is because this fight because it isn't a main event is a paycut for him. Now if you just fought for free on TV a FOTY would you take a paycut when you know you don't have to.

My basic rule of thumb when it comes to fighters and money 9 out of 10 times I'm taking the Fighter over the organization.


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## RWCNT (Dec 16, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> Oh he's not a thug my bad, the whole Chael "gangster from West Linn" Sonnen thing must be another lame routine then. Don't blame him, Chael "only knows how to piss himself in real life" Sonnen doesn't quite have the same ring to it.
> 
> Great challenge he issued that. He even picked out a nice date, to share with an actual champ whose boots he isn't worthy of shining, how nice of him. Maybe he can ride on this champ's coattails now that the other two have already booted his ass off.
> 
> What a crazy off the cuff fighter he his. When someone calls him out to his face, that's just thuggery bro! You gotta slink away and say your thank yous! Don't forget to sound totally meek and scared, that's how real men do it! When Chael P sonnen does manly callouts in the heat of the moment, he actually has the date and card planned out to share with the world. It's almost like an invitation for a baby shower instead of a fight callout. Wanderlei turning it down for not getting paid is sooo uncool. At the very least he should have RSVPed on some nice pink paper, where are his manners?


So much hate.

The "Gangster from West Linn, Oregon" shtick is meant to be humorous/ironic as West Linn is a well-to-do area and everyone knows Chael comes from a well-off, middle class background. 

Also, no way Chael OR Wandy would ever have fought eachother in the street. They're both older busy guys with businesses and families. I strongly doubt either one of them wants to deal with the headaches that kind of stupid behaviour bring about. However, Wanderlei likes to give the impression that he still would indulge in such hijinx, I think Chael saw through that as bravado and just decided to end the conversation like "Whatever, man". Come on, Wandy was on one leg at that point if I recall, if you think Chael was physically intimidated then I don't see where you're coming from. 

Wanderlei's in a bad position here by being so vocal about wanting the fight for so long, if he doesn't take it in the end over money it's going to look a little embarrassing. Takes me back to the long interview Chael did with Ariel a few years ago - "Give Wanderlei the contract. He will not sign it".


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

RWCNT said:


> So much hate.


absurd rants, ridiculous comments and blind hate against Chael does seem to make the small folk feel a little bigger :laugh:


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Chael Sonnen makes me wanna infuse red white and blue blood into me, a true hero


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

RWCNT said:


> So much hate.
> 
> The "Gangster from West Linn, Oregon" shtick is meant to be humorous/ironic as West Linn is a well-to-do area and everyone knows Chael comes from a well-off, middle class background.
> 
> ...


Yeah because "Thank you" *shakes* is totally "Whatever, man". 

You don't THANK the guy calling you out unless you're scared. You say whatever man. That's not what happened, take your Chael man love goggles off.






Wanderlei on the other hand confronted Chael face to face and has fought guys with 60 lbs on him, he isn't scared. He just isn't falling fall Chael's bullshit to line his pockets for him without anything for himself. This is their profession, and they do it for money, you might see it if you let someone other than Dana or Chael do your thinking for you.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> Yeah because "Thank you" *shakes* is totally "Whatever, man".
> 
> You don't THANK the guy calling you out unless you're scared. You say whatever man. That's not what happened, take your Chael man love goggles off.
> 
> ...


To be honest, Im not sure Chael even knows what the feck Wandy is talking about. Its all pretty clear up to the Nog brothers bit, but after that, Chael looks more confused then anything. If this video didnt have subtitles, we would all be a bit confused. I really think Sonnen said "thank you" because he totally misheard what Wand is saying.

Dont get me wrong... I would like nothing more then to see Sonnen humiliated face-to-face like that. But in this instance, unfortunately, I dont think thats what's happening.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> Yeah because "Thank you" *shakes* is totally "Whatever, man".
> 
> You don't THANK the guy calling you out unless you're scared. You say whatever man. That's not what happened, take your Chael man love goggles off.
> 
> ...


Cmon dude stop, wandy has been living off this little video that needed SUBTITLES for any coherent english speaking person to understand, meaning chael was just being polite and like many of us didn't know what the fook he said. 

And let's for a second pretend he did understand, he fought anderson silva twice, and jon jones who is a gigantic monster, why on earth would he be more scared of wandy then those two. i dare say babulu back in the day when he fought him made chael more nervous. And another thing what were they both doing in the same car again? maybe they were both speaking at a dana white press conference to legalise MMA or something.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Cmon dude stop, wandy has been living off this little video that needed SUBTITLES for any coherent english speaking person to understand, meaning chael was just being polite and like many of us didn't know what the fook he said.
> 
> And let's for a second pretend he did understand, he fought anderson silva twice, and jon jones who is a gigantic monster, why on earth would he be more scared of wandy then those two. i dare say babulu back in the day when he fought him made chael more nervous. And another thing what were they both doing in the same car again? maybe they were both speaking at a dana white press conference to legalise MMA or something.


Because he had the ref to save his ass when he turtled up like a little girl against both of those guys, and a million bucks either way. A luxury he didn't have if he didn't meekly thank Wandy in the van.

Heck I'd take anything Anderson or Jones could throw at me too if you gave me a million bucks and the assurance that all I'd have to do is turtle up at the first sign of pain and it'd all go away. Even Bob Sapp can and does do that, man he must be the bravest guy alive.

Wanderlei never turtles up. The guy goes for broke, knocks the guy in front of him out or goes out on his shield. Mostly just knocks out.



Soojooko said:


> To be honest, Im not sure Chael even knows what the feck Wandy is talking about. Its all pretty clear up to the Nog brothers bit, but after that, Chael looks more confused then anything. If this video didnt have subtitles, we would all be a bit confused. I really think Sonnen said "thank you" because he totally misheard what Wand is saying.
> 
> Dont get me wrong... I would like nothing more then to see Sonnen humiliated face-to-face like that. But in this instance, unfortunately, I dont think thats what's happening.







For a purported non Sonnen lover, you sure like to make the same lame excuses for him sooj. Really?? A guy with an aggressive tone telling you not to disrespect his country and he "couldn't understand"? Even without the words, the TONE is perfectly clear, and even with just 2 words, BRAZIL and RESPECT, repeated over and over, the guy knows EXACTLY what is being talked about. Heck he even gives back logical answers to everything Wanderlei says, how in the world is he doing that if he doesn't understand?


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> To be honest, Im not sure Chael even knows what the feck Wandy is talking about. Its all pretty clear up to the Nog brothers bit, but after that, Chael looks more confused then anything. If this video didnt have subtitles, we would all be a bit confused. I really think Sonnen said "thank you" because he totally misheard what Wand is saying.
> 
> Dont get me wrong... I would like nothing more then to see Sonnen humiliated face-to-face like that. But in this instance, unfortunately, I dont think thats what's happening.


I think the message is pretty clear, even without the subtitles. "Promotion is ok, but don't overdo it. Respect Brazil and its people or you'll lose your teeth."


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Brazilians are phony anyways, it's all respect brazil respect brazilian, meanwhile there crowds are the most biased and disrespectful to any foreigner ever and they always have excuses anyways. There really is no incentive for chael to even fight wand, what does chael have to gain? beating shogun is a bigger win than anything he does to wand. Fighting vitor would have been better for chael to gain same with machida or davis or lil nog


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Brazilians are phony anyways, it's all respect brazil respect brazilian, meanwhile there crowds are the most biased and disrespectful to any foreigner ever and they always have excuses anyways. There really is no incentive for chael to even fight wand, what does chael have to gain? beating shogun is a bigger win than anything he does to wand. Fighting vitor would have been better for chael to gain same with machida or davis or lil nog


Give me one video of a Brazilian fighter talking trash about the US or Australia or wherever then. 

I don't care about the Brazilian mob or crowd, it's the martial artists we're talking about here, the vast majority of who are respectful. Wanderlei in particular, tell me one time the guy's been disrespectful to a country, a fan, or even an opponent who didn't disrespect him first. Go on.

Shogun is a shell. Sonnen is picking on has-beens, and interspersing them with getting his ass kicked by champs while on steroids and still coming out looking tough to his fans because "at least he stepped up". Gimme a break. Out of all the top 10s Jones has faced, Sonnen went down the quickest and easiest.

Unlike Shogun Wanderlei still has some juice left. And no Shogun was never a bigger name than Wandy, he may have touched the UFC LHW belt for a split second, but overall Wanderlei has had the far longer, more consistent and impressive career.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> Wandy's contract also states that he has the right to turn down any fight unless he is the champion, and the negotiating table is very much open to him if the UFC wants to force a particular fight or a particular date. So no, it is not his "contractual obligation" to take any fight by the UFC, his obligation is only to fight a certain number of fights with the company, not whichever fight they offer him or whenever they want it.
> 
> Note that all articles about this fight said Sonnen called out Wanderlei for this card and Dana is down ... what about Wanderlei, is he chopped liver? This guy's style and aggression selling the fight as much as Sonnen, why does Dana only entertain Sonnen's demands like which card to fight on etc. which are clearly motivated by money?
> 
> ...





Liddellianenko said:


> Oh he's not a thug my bad, the whole Chael "gangster from West Linn" Sonnen thing must be another lame routine then. Don't blame him, Chael "only knows how to piss himself in real life" Sonnen doesn't quite have the same ring to it.
> 
> Great challenge he issued that. He even picked out a nice date, to share with an actual champ whose boots he isn't worthy of shining, how nice of him. Maybe he can ride on this champ's coattails now that the other two have already booted his ass off.
> 
> What a crazy off the cuff fighter he his. When someone calls him out to his face, that's just thuggery bro! You gotta slink away and say your thank yous! Don't forget to sound totally meek and scared, that's how real men do it! When Chael P sonnen does manly callouts in the heat of the moment, he actually has the date and card planned out to share with the world. It's almost like an invitation for a baby shower instead of a fight callout. Wanderlei turning it down for not getting paid is sooo uncool. At the very least he should have RSVPed on some nice pink paper, where are his manners?





Liddellianenko said:


> Yeah because "Thank you" *shakes* is totally "Whatever, man".
> 
> You don't THANK the guy calling you out unless you're scared. You say whatever man. That's not what happened, take your Chael man love goggles off.
> 
> ...





Liddellianenko said:


> Because he had the ref to save his ass when he turtled up like a little girl against both of those guys, and a million bucks either way. A luxury he didn't have if he didn't meekly thank Wandy in the van.
> 
> Heck I'd take anything Anderson or Jones could throw at me too if you gave me a million bucks and the assurance that all I'd have to do is turtle up at the first sign of pain and it'd all go away. Even Bob Sapp can and does do that, man he must be the bravest guy alive.
> 
> ...





Liddellianenko said:


> Give me one video of a Brazilian fighter talking trash about the US or Australia or wherever then.
> 
> I don't care about the Brazilian mob or crowd, it's the martial artists we're talking about here, the vast majority of who are respectful. Wanderlei in particular, tell me one time the guy's been disrespectful to a country, a fan, or even an opponent who didn't disrespect him first. Go on.
> 
> ...



It must be exhausting to be you :hug:

Please try to keep it up. You're the only entertainer on the forum today. Here, I'll give you inspiration for your next 8 paragraphs. ..... Chael>wandy :laugh:


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Nah people's ever wondrous ways of deluding and dodging truth keeps me entertained enough to avoid exhaustion, but thanks for your concern :hug:

Chael sucks.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> Nah people's ever wondrous ways of deluding and dodging truth keeps me entertained enough to avoid exhaustion, but thanks for your concern :hug:
> 
> Chael sucks.


Oh come on Liddellianenko, let's cut Sonenen and his blind nut hugging fans a break. He's hall of fame material, right up there with Wand.


:happy02:


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

BOOM said:


> Oh come on Liddellianenko, let's cut Sonenen and his blind nut hugging fans a break. He's hall of fame material, right up there with Wand.
> 
> 
> :happy02:


Oh yeah BOOM, they've got his HOF portrait already dincha hear


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> Oh yeah BOOM, they've got his HOF portrait already dincha hear



My apologizes brother I did'nt realize. Sonnen must have bought that HOF space for his portrait the same way he won his belt, on Ebay.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Wow. Some of you people are devoted, haha.

It's pretty simple. Wanderlei has had a much better career than Chael. It's a no brainer. But at this stage in their careers, Sonnen would absolutely dominate.


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## Proud German (Sep 28, 2012)

I agree Ari my friend. Except that Silva no 2's career has always been overrated. People always say that Fedor spent most of his career beating bums in Japan, but what about Wanderlei? Beating a bunch of tiny Japs does not make you the best LHW champion of the world. He was one of the weakest champion in my opinion.

Now Sonnen, this is a man who has, by stark contrast, had a more underrated career. He beat Silva the first time but somehow lost the 2nd, I don't know why, but he got lazy with the spinning backfist, he was too small to fight a bully like Jon Jones, who can only fight people smaller than him. Now that he has to face somebody even more statuesque than him in Alexander he will know how it feels to be bullied by a much stronger man.

I digress. Chael would humiliate Silva no 2 worse than when Leben did, and Leben made Silva run out the cage crying like a little boy :laugh:


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Proud German said:


> I agree Ari my friend. Except that Silva no 2's career has always been overrated. People always say that Fedor spent most of his career beating bums in Japan, but what about Wanderlei? Beating a bunch of tiny Japs does not make you the best LHW champion of the world. He was one of the weakest champion in my opinion.
> 
> Now Sonnen, this is a man who has, by stark contrast, had a more underrated career. He beat Silva the first time but somehow lost the 2nd, I don't know why, but he got lazy with the spinning backfist, he was too small to fight a bully like Jon Jones, who can only fight people smaller than him. Now that he has to face somebody even more statuesque than him in Alexander he will know how it feels to be bullied by a much stronger man.
> 
> I digress. Chael would humiliate Silva no 2 worse than when Leben did, and Leben made Silva run out the cage crying like a little boy :laugh:


Lol @ jones being bullied by Gustaf and Sonnen humiliating anyone not a can or himself. 

You proud germans are pretty bad at picking out idols it seems. Boy you're gonna be more disappointed than you were on D-day.

Sorry hammer, nothing against germans ya know


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## Proud German (Sep 28, 2012)

What? No, I will not be in for a disappointment, YOU will be in for a disappointment my friend when Jones has his face broken in half by the best fighter at 205. Gus stats do not lie, he is as strong, as big and as fast as Jones, and faar more intelligent and classy. Just wait until he becomes the new 2O5 champion. It is going to be like christmas.

And by the way, are you saying that Rua is a can? I agree that other aspects about him sucks but you cannot call him a can? He was big in Japaan afterall...


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Proud German said:


> What? No, I will not be in for a disappointment, YOU will be in for a disappointment my friend when Jones has his face broken in half by the best fighter at 205. Gus stats do not lie, he is as strong, as big and as fast as Jones, and faar more intelligent and classy. Just wait until he becomes the new 2O5 champion. It is going to be like christmas.
> 
> And by the way, are you saying that Rua is a can? I agree that other aspects about him sucks but you cannot call him a can? He was big in Japaan afterall...


Oh suuuuure I am. Whatever you say junior :laugh:. Right after Sonnen beats Anderson right? Oh I'm sorry, beats anderson AGAIN, I keep forgetting to maintain delusions according to whichever nut I'm currently talking to, so many ya know?

Rua is a borderline can now. Too many surgeries, no cardio and no wins in years except over other has been retirees like Forrest and Vera. I picked Sonnen for that fight because pretty much any mid tier would have beaten him. Not the case with Wanderlei yet.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

The funny thing about this thread is that people aren't really arguing that Wandy has a chance of winning this fight if it actually happens, people are only talking about how Wandy deserves to get paid for taking the ass whooping that he will definitely receive if this fight happens.

Also, Shogun has been much better in the UFC than Wandy, its not even a comparison.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

joshua7789 said:


> The funny thing about this thread is that people aren't really arguing that Wandy has a chance of winning this fight if it actually happens, people are only talking about how Wandy deserves to get paid for taking the ass whooping that he will definitely receive if this fight happens.
> 
> Also, Shogun has been much better in the UFC than Wandy, its not even a comparison.


I think Wanderlei has a pretty good chance actually. I'm picking him for the win and retiring on a high.


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## Proud German (Sep 28, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> Oh suuuuure I am. Whatever you say junior :laugh:. Right after Sonnen beats Anderson right? Oh I'm sorry, beats anderson AGAIN, I keep forgetting to maintain delusions according to whichever nut I'm currently talking to, so many ya know?
> 
> Rua is a borderline can now. Too many surgeries, no cardio and no wins in years except over other has been retirees like Forrest and Vera. I picked Sonnen for that fight because pretty much any mid tier would have beaten him. Not the case with Wanderlei yet.


If you do not think Sonnen beat Silva no 1 in that first fight you are the one deluded. Imagine if that was a 3 round fight? That would have been 3 10/8 rounds to Sonnen..aka the worst beating any mma fighter would have received inside the cage...Silva is lucky that was 5 rounds..

Rua is a joke, I agree, but he is still a solid win to have based on his history. Wanderlei too is a joke and always has been and in some ways is worse than Rua, so i do not know how you can say that he will beat Sonnen. Silva no 2 is a older, weaker, slower and louder version of Rua, so do not feed me the 'i'm not sure what will happen with Silva no 2' bull, because we both know EXACTLY what will happen, and that's a uncomfortable beat down in front of a lot of unhapppy Brazilians


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Proud German said:


> If you do not think Sonnen beat Silva no 1 in that first fight you are the one deluded. Imagine if that was a 3 round fight? That would have been 3 10/8 rounds to Sonnen..aka the worst beating any mma fighter would have received inside the cage...Silva is lucky that was 5 rounds..
> 
> Rua is a joke, I agree, but he is still a solid win to have based on his history. Wanderlei too is a joke and always has been and in some ways is worse than Rua, so i do not know how you can say that he will beat Sonnen. Silva no 2 is a older, weaker, slower and louder version of Rua, so do not feed me the 'i'm not sure what will happen with Silva no 2' bull, because we both know EXACTLY what will happen, and that's a uncomfortable beat down in front of a lot of unhapppy Brazilians


Ah yes yes, we're doing the imagine thing of course. I should have seen it earlier! That's how he gets into the HOF too Boom , the wonderful power of imagination! A healthy imagination is a Sonnen fan's best friend.

The worst beating someone has received inside the cage ... just stop, the laughing, it hurts :laugh:, no more. Worst hugs maybe.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> I think Wanderlei has a pretty good chance actually. I'm picking him for the win and retiring on a high.


The guy has just looked shot as hell since pride (really he started to look shot before that). He has had a couple of bright spots in the UFC, but he hasn't looked anything like he used too.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

joshua7789 said:


> The guy has just looked shot as hell since pride (really he started to look shot before that). He has had a couple of bright spots in the UFC, but he hasn't looked anything like he used too.


Agreed. But it's enough to beat Sonnen, who pressures himself up with his mouth to fail. Wandy gets this one last bright spot.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm not a Sonnen fan but what makes you guys think that at this stage, Silva can beat him?

I'm almost positive this fight will look a lot like the Sonnen/Shogun fight or the Sonnen/Stann fight. Sonnen isn't stupid enough to trade with Wanderlei.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Ari said:


> I'm not a Sonnen fan but what makes you guys think that at this stage, Silva can beat him?
> 
> I'm almost positive this fight will look a lot like the Sonnen/Shogun fight or the Sonnen/Stann fight. Sonnen isn't stupid enough to trade with Wanderlei.


And on the ground his sub defense remains terrible. Wanderlei is also the most aggressive guy Sonnen has faced, including stann. Rushing in like he does for the takedown may get him KOd here where it would have gotten him a takedown elsewhere.

But most of all I'm going by the mental aspect. Sonnen has stirred the hornets nest again. All his talk will only build pressure on him and light a fire under the other guy.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> And on the ground his sub defense remains terrible. Wanderlei is also the most aggressive guy Sonnen has faced, including stann. Rushing in like he does for the takedown may get him KOd here where it would have gotten him a takedown elsewhere.
> 
> But most of all I'm going by the mental aspect. Sonnen has stirred the hornets nest again. All his talk will only build pressure on him and light a fire under the other guy.


Not going to disagree with you but we haven't really seen Wanderlei do anything off of his back. I don't think Wanderlei has the jiu jitsu to sub Sonnen.

I imagine Sonnen will look to clinch first since he knows Silva has some nasty knees and will probably trip him to the floor and work his ground and pound from there.

Regarding your last comment that can go one or two ways. Look at what happened in Diaz/Cerronne.


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## Proud German (Sep 28, 2012)

You sound like a Wanderlei hoping for him to replay past 'glories'. Do not get excited, you laugh now but please do prepare to weep as this 'Wanderlei is retiring on a high' mentality is not healthy, Wanderlei is getting demolished and nothing you say can change that fanboy.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Proud German said:


> You sound like a Wanderlei hoping for him to replay past 'glories'. Do not get excited, you laugh now but please do prepare to weep as this 'Wanderlei is retiring on a high' mentality is not healthy, Wanderlei is getting demolished and nothing you say can change that fanboy.


I'm not even much of a Wanderlei fan really, I just call it like I see it.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> Give me one video of a Brazilian fighter talking trash about the US or Australia or wherever then.
> 
> I don't care about the Brazilian mob or crowd, it's the martial artists we're talking about here, the vast majority of who are respectful. Wanderlei in particular, tell me one time the guy's been disrespectful to a country, a fan, or even an opponent who didn't disrespect him first. Go on.
> 
> ...


We have about 4 fighters in the UFC so I don't think you will find anyone who insults australia, and even if they did we would be big boys and not give a crap. Also america and australia aren't half crime ridden places with fevalas that you can gain easy material on. By all means if you truly think wand is gonna win put a bet on it but i'll be betting the other way.


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## RWCNT (Dec 16, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> Because he had the ref to save his ass when he turtled up like a little girl against both of those guys, and a million bucks either way. A luxury he didn't have if he didn't meekly thank Wandy in the van.
> 
> Heck I'd take anything Anderson or Jones could throw at me too if you gave me a million bucks and the assurance that all I'd have to do is turtle up at the first sign of pain and it'd all go away. Even Bob Sapp can and does do that, man he must be the bravest guy alive.
> 
> ...


You seem like a weird guy.

For a start, Wanderlei's tone isn't even overly aggressive. I don't know how much violence you've been around in your life but Wanderlei is not threatening or challenging Chael in that video at all. He's throwing out some bollocks about there being a saying in Brazil that if you don't show respect you will lose your teeth. As I said before, I highly, highly doubt Wanderlei would dare to lay a finger on Chael in the streets and I think Chael is a smart enough person to realise that. In the real world smart, educated, successful people don't go around smashing people that make vague, cryptic insinuations about what might happen to them. If Wandy was that offended then how come he didn't just swing on Chael in the first place? Get ****in' real.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> I'm not even much of a Wanderlei fan really, I just call it like I see it.


I agree, these noobs not giving the Axe Murderer a chance are funny. The fight (if the UFC cheapskates pay Wand like they should be doing) is going down like this...

Sonnen will rush in with his predicable take down attempt to try to get Wand on his back because let's face it, that's all this chump knows how to do, but Wand is going to stuff Sonnen with a knee and break his jaw. 

Wand will then drop a fury of bombs on Sonnen's face and the ref will be forced to stop the fight because Sonnen is out cold, bleeding profusely while cuddled up in a little ball and still crying.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

BOOM said:


> I agree, these noobs not giving the Axe Murderer a chance are funny. The fight (if the UFC cheapskates pay Wand like they should be doing) is going down like this...
> 
> Sonnen will rush in with his predicable take down attempt to try to get Wand on his back because let's face it, that's all this chump knows how to do, but Wand is going to stuff Sonnen with a knee and break his jaw.
> 
> Wand will then drop a fury of bombs on Sonnen's face and the ref will be forced to stop the fight because Sonnen is out cold, bleeding profusely while cuddled up in a little ball and still crying.


just because you keep calling people noobs doesn't mean it's true, and i'm glad you said something this dumb because I wanna make a bet with you. If Wandy wins I Leave the forum and if Chael wins you leave the forum for good, if it's a robbery decision for either one the bet doesn't count.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

UFC_OWNS said:


> just because you keep calling people noobs doesn't mean it's true, and i'm glad you said something this dumb because I wanna make a bet with you. If Wandy wins I Leave the forum and if Chael wins you leave the forum for good, if it's a robbery decision for either one the bet doesn't count.


Well for one I would not want you to leave this forum, that kind of attitude is for people who can't handle other people's opinions. I'd suggest pulling your socks up because it's a discussion forum where many other people will not agree with your views and if you leave you will run into the same thing on every other forum that's out there.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

BOOM said:


> Well for one I would not want you to leave this forum, that kind of attitude is for people who can't handle other people's opinions. I'd suggest pulling your socks up because it's a discussion forum where many other people will not agree with your views and if you leave you will run into the same thing on every other forum that's out there.


So you are running away from the challenge like a coward, i'd say i'm surprised but i'm not even in the slightest. The only one on this forum who enjoys your company is yourself and you don't even have the stones to make a wager with me


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

UFC_OWNS said:


> So you are running away from the challenge like a coward, i'd say i'm surprised but i'm not even in the slightest. The only one on this forum who enjoys your company is yourself and you don't even have the stones to make a wager with me


I'm not running away from anything, and you've got it backwards being that you're the one that just proposed someone should leave the forum because in reality you can't handle different opinions other than yours. Not a bad attempt at spin on your part, I'll give you that much.


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## lights out 24 (Jul 23, 2012)

If you're going to make a bet let it be "hey you were right & I was wrong." Why does either have to leave? Nothing wrong with a heated discussion. I definitely could see Wand ending it suddenly. Those who think he can't need to study the legend. Chael has the better odds to take it with the wrestling game but I could see Wand getting underhooks or sprawl & catching with a knee or hook. Chael is a stud & everyone saying he sucks is just hating & not having an educated opinion. He dominated Anderson the 1st fight & won the first round of the 2nd fight & it took Anderson holding onto Chaels shorts & everything he could to stay up. Being the champion he is he capitalized on Sonnens mistakes both times. Both these guys are studs & it will be an explosive fight & I can't wait. I want Wand to win & he is looking like he's having a resurgence as of late. Just give both guys credit cuz they're both studs.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

I don't think it's too far fetched to think if the fight goes to decision, Chael will win and Wandy if there's a stoppage. Chael will obviously be the favorite but some of you are acting like this will be a cakewalk for Sonnen, and that shit is just hilarious.


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## lights out 24 (Jul 23, 2012)

Agreed Rygu. It's a fight. Chael is looking to win but Wand is looking to hurt & more then likely he will hurt him in one of those rounds pretty badly. Chael is a world class wrestler but Wand murders other fighters & he's prob the best of all time when smelling blood & looking to finish. Chael will need every round but with Wand it only takes one shot. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

BOOM said:


> I'm not running away from anything, and you've got it backwards being that you're the one that just proposed someone should leave the forum because in reality you can't handle different opinions other than yours. Not a bad attempt at spin on your part, I'll give you that much.


Yeah I see what he did there. He tried to spin it as if you should stand behind what you’ve been saying.You know, like he's willing to do. Like a put up or shut up kind of thing. The fool. does he really think you’re stupid enough to believe your own bullshit?
Don't fall for his trap. we would miss laughing at you.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

oldfan said:


> Yeah I see what he did there. He tried to spin it as if you should stand behind what you’ve been saying.You know, like he's willing to do. Like a put up or shut up kind of thing. The fool. does he really think you’re stupid enough to believe your own bullshit?
> Don't fall for his trap. we would miss laughing at you.


Oh snap what am I going to do now? It's captain oldfan to the rescue! The same moron who came to defend his friends last week because they can't handle a shit ton of people including myself who are not on the Sonnen preschool train. 

Not to worry though captain, I won't ask you to leave the forum on any kind of terms. You're much to easy to deal with just like the rest of your friends were that I've had eating out of my hand for the better part of a week. Move along now.




Rygu said:


> I don't think it's too far fetched to think if the fight goes to decision, Chael will win and Wandy if there's a stoppage. Chael will obviously be the favorite but some of you are acting like this will be a cakewalk for Sonnen, and that shit is just hilarious.


I agree, this fight could go either way but Wand is going to come out swinging hard and looking to hurt as always. He's made an incredible career out of highlight KO's and is just coming off one. No reason to think he can't do the same again.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

BOOM said:


> I'm not running away from anything, and you've got it backwards being that you're the one that just proposed someone should leave the forum because in reality you can't handle different opinions other than yours. Not a bad attempt at spin on your part, I'll give you that much.


You really don't get it do you, no one likes you, you are a burden to this forum and society. A coathanger on month 3 of your mother's pregnancy would have actually been a great idea right up there with the invention of toast. 

I have offered you the easy way out either my boy wins and you leave or your boy wins and I leave, if you don't wanna do it fine just be known as a coward who is bound to get banned anyways from complaints from the members of this forum. Now go ahead and try to pretend this will roll of your missing braincell back:hug:


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Ari said:


> Not going to disagree with you but we haven't really seen Wanderlei do anything off of his back. I don't think Wanderlei has the jiu jitsu to sub Sonnen.
> 
> I imagine Sonnen will look to clinch first since he knows Silva has some nasty knees and will probably trip him to the floor and work his ground and pound from there.
> 
> Regarding your last comment that can go one or two ways. Look at what happened in Diaz/Cerronne.


Wanderlei has never really had to use his back game though ... in 49 fights only two guys have been able to put him on his back and keep him there. One was Ortiz almost a decade and a half ago, before Wanderlei was a BJJ black belt and when Ortiz was a veritable master at sub defense from guard. The other was Arona, a guy with one of the best top controls in the game and Wanderlei showcased an excellent defensive guard, ability to avoid damage and subs completely, and getting back up quickly. 

Wanderlei is also one of the rare fighters to never have been subbed or even been caught in a close sub attempt in his entire career, so his grappling is probably good overall. 

Basically the ground / back game from Wanderlei's side is a complete unknown at this point. We do know that he has a black belt, and we do know that Sonnen has been subbed a record number of times of any fighter currently in the UFC. It is entirely possible that Sonnen grinds it out, but one can't just discount the sub possibility, or the blitz KO standing.

It's not like Wanderlei has never seen what guys like Chael bring to the table. Back in the day, he beat and knocked out a PRIME Mike Van Arsedale, the only one to ever do so before the man got old as hell. For those not in the know, Arsedale was probably one of best wrestlers to ever compete in MMA (Div I champ and world cup gold medalist) far above the likes of Chael, and is now considered one of the best wrestling coaches in the country.

Diaz/Cerrone was not a case of the disrespectful guy winning IMO. It's ok for fighters to not be buddies and not do the shake hands thing or whatever, and Cerrone went farther in retaliation talk than Diaz ever did with slapping the hand away and dropping an F-Bomb. Neither of them got real personal or truly disrespectful at any point, if anything there was mutual respect underneath the grudge and cussing. That kind of thing is normal, they're fighters after all. Bringing someone's wife, country, race, religion etc. into it is not.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> Wanderlei has never really had to use his back game though ... in 49 fights only two guys have been able to put him on his back and keep him there. One was Ortiz almost a decade and a half ago, before Wanderlei was a BJJ black belt and when Ortiz was a veritable master at sub defense from guard. The other was Arona, a guy with one of the best top controls in the game and Wanderlei showcased an excellent defensive guard, ability to avoid damage and subs completely, and getting back up quickly.
> 
> Wanderlei is also one of the rare fighters to never have been subbed or even been caught in a close sub attempt in his entire career, so his grappling is probably good overall.
> 
> ...



I think I saw franklin,stann and cro cop have wandy down as well, i think chuck had down for a lil bit too.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

UFC_OWNS said:


> I think I saw franklin,stann and cro cop have wandy down as well, i think chuck had down for a lil bit too.


I said take and *keep* him down. A few seconds or a minute here and there don't matter that much. Unless Chael can keep Wanderlei down for most of the fight, he's in big trouble.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Wand had one big flurry against franklin and then gassed, for his sake he better hope he keeps it standing because otherwise his cardio will be sapped within 2 rounds


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> You really don't get it do you, no one likes you, you are a burden to this forum and society. A coathanger on month 3 of your mother's pregnancy would have actually been a great idea right up there with the invention of toast.
> 
> I have offered you the easy way out either my boy wins and you leave or your boy wins and I leave, if you don't wanna do it fine just be known as a coward who is bound to get banned anyways from complaints from the members of this forum. Now go ahead and try to pretend this will roll of your missing braincell back:hug:


Pff, this shit coming again from the convict's son.
When is MMAF going to get rid of this piece of shit?


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

AmdM said:


> Pff, this shit coming again from the convict's son.
> When is MMAF going to get rid of this piece of shit?


too bad my parents aren't convicts, you talk tough for a portuguese queer no one likes either much like BOOM. I'd seriously like to know what you think you could do to me? i'll answer that for you, not a damn thing.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

AmdM said:


> Pff, this shit coming again from the convict's son.
> When is MMAF going to get rid of this piece of shit?


What you said wasn't even slightly offensive to me but I still feel like negging you for your ignorant douchery.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

This shit is serious.

How long is MMAF users gonna have to endure this kind of behaviour?

Dude has surely gone over 4 digits insulting people
yet the mod team seems to be allright with it.

This must be some new kind of record on the internet.

What a freakin joke this thing is becoming. :thumbsdown:


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

AmdM said:


> This shit is serious.
> 
> How long is MMAF users gonna have to endure this kind of behaviour?
> 
> ...


However wrong you think he may be, it still was not your place to step in and add fuel to the fire.

I hope you realise that when you insult him you are doing the exact same thing that you are attempting to campaign against.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

AmdM said:


> This shit is serious.
> 
> How long is MMAF users gonna have to endure this kind of behaviour?
> 
> ...


probably because I have a lot more people that like me then you, so your problem and you can go cry about it, or leave the forum whatever.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

RWCNT said:


> You seem like a weird guy.
> 
> For a start, Wanderlei's tone isn't even overly aggressive. I don't know how much violence you've been around in your life but Wanderlei is not threatening or challenging Chael in that video at all. He's throwing out some bollocks about there being a saying in Brazil that if you don't show respect you will lose your teeth. As I said before, I highly, highly doubt Wanderlei would dare to lay a finger on Chael in the streets and I think Chael is a smart enough person to realise that. In the real world smart, educated, successful people don't go around smashing people that make vague, cryptic insinuations about what might happen to them. If Wandy was that offended then how come he didn't just swing on Chael in the first place? Get ****in' real.


Your statement tells me you're the one who has probably never been in a violent situation in his life. All the better for you, nothing wrong with that other than you pretending to be a tough guy on the internet and failing, but I've seen and been in my share.

Wanderlei was trying to instigate the fight. It's a thinly veiled threat, you'll lose your teeth, a guy has to be blind not to see it. Blinded by fanboyism as the case may be. The tone was quietly aggressive and the stare was seething. That's how people start confrontations, pick fights... most guys aren't rabid psychopaths who just lunge at people out of the blue.

Of course Wanderlei wouldn't just lunge and stomp Sonnen down and get assault charges pressed on him. But if Sonnen instigated him further at that point, he might have slapped him and made a fool out of him. This kind of minor thing happens all the time in the fight business and no people don't go to jail or court for that... there is an understanding that minor stuff like that is part and parcel of the profession, otherwise half the guys on TUF, weigh-ins, fight camps, post fight parties etc. would be in jail. 

Then Sonnen would either come out looking like a bigger chump than he already did, or he'd have to fight back, at which point he'd be a party to the fight and most likely neither would be in a position to press charges. And he would most likely get his head knocked off. Hence the meek thank you.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> probably because I have a lot more people that like me then you, so your problem and you can go cry about it, or leave the forum whatever.


This kind of statement really shows what you're about.
Flash news, this is not a popularity contest and even if it was, that would never give you the right to insult people left and right like you have been doing since the 1st day you registered on this board.

Your behaviour is obnoxious and your presence in this board only serves the purpose of rotten it.
This board or any other board, should never allow it's members to act the way you do for so long.
In any other board you'd have been wiped out permanently.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> probably because I have a lot more people that like me then you, so your problem and you can go cry about it, or leave the forum whatever.


I'm actually on Liddelianenkos side when it comes to your argument about Wandy but my god I've been laughing my ass off at your posts on the last two pages. The member formerly known as Tyson Fury formally aproves. 

I might actually cry if Wandy KOs Sonnen. I like Sonnen, makes me smile, but Wandy is my God, my Jesus, my......._*sheds tear*_ everything


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

BOOM said:


> Oh snap what am I going to do now? It's captain oldfan to the rescue! The same incredibly handsome hero who came to defend his friends last week and made all the girls wet and week in the knees including myself.
> 
> Not to worry though captain, I won't ask you to leave the forum on any kind of terms. You're much too awesome just like the rest of your friends..



whew, ok, I was worried that we might lose you. I get it now. You're just playing the same game as Wandy. Saying things about chael that you never have to back up. 

...have fun with it.:hug:


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## RWCNT (Dec 16, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> Your statement tells me you're the one who has probably never been in a violent situation in his life. All the better for you, nothing wrong with that other than you pretending to be a tough guy on the internet and failing, but I've seen and been in my share.
> 
> Wanderlei was trying to instigate the fight. It's a thinly veiled threat, you'll lose your teeth, a guy has to be blind not to see it. Blinded by fanboyism as the case may be. The tone was quietly aggressive and the stare was seething. That's how people start confrontations, pick fights... most guys aren't rabid psychopaths who just lunge at people out of the blue.
> 
> ...


Ahh I'm gonna have to confess that was a bit of a stupid drunk post. Tthat "Don't know if you ever.." was condescending, shit goes down in all sorts of ways. I've seen people walk straight up to someone they have beef with and shove them, physically instigating a fight, and I've seen guys talk rubbish and make veiled threats. The main difference in my opinion being tbe instigators actually want to fight whereas the talkers just want to look tough. Not trying to be an internet tougn guy and I've seen and been in violent situations also, so, hooray for us!! :hug:

I think we see this thing differently, you seem to think I'm blinded by fanboyism and I think you're blinded by sheer Chaelhate. In my opinion Wandy was posturing and Chael decided to be the bigger man. Barring an admission from either man we'll probably never come to an agreement.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

AmdM said:


> This kind of statement really shows what you're about.
> Flash news, this is not a popularity contest and even if it was, that would never give you the right to insult people left and right like you have been doing since the 1st day you registered on this board.
> 
> Your behaviour is obnoxious and your presence in this board only serves the purpose of rotten it.
> ...


Classic response from an unlikeable fool who is dumber than a sack of doorknobs, i'm tired of talking to you.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

UFC_OWNS said:


> You really don't get it do you, no one likes you, you are a burden to this forum and society. A coathanger on month 3 of your mother's pregnancy would have actually been a great idea right up there with the invention of toast.
> 
> I have offered you the easy way out either my boy wins and you leave or your boy wins and I leave, if you don't wanna do it fine just be known as a coward who is bound to get banned anyways from complaints from the members of this forum. Now go ahead and try to pretend this will roll of your missing braincell back:hug:




Well that's weird because there is a good awful amount of people here who are giving me reputation for my posts because they share the same views I have on certain fighters and MMA in general. Even forum moderators shockingly, feel free to check out my comments page when you have some time but most of all...


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

BOOM said:


> Well that's weird because there is a good awful amount of people here who are giving me reputation for my posts because they share the same views I have on certain fighters and MMA in general. Even forum moderators shockingly, feel free to check out my comments page when you have some time but most of all...


you mean negative reputation, because your rep bar is red raw


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

RWCNT said:


> Ahh I'm gonna have to confess that was a bit of a stupid drunk post. Tthat "Don't know if you ever.." was condescending, shit goes down in all sorts of ways. I've seen people walk straight up to someone they have beef with and shove them, physically instigating a fight, and I've seen guys talk rubbish and make veiled threats. The main difference in my opinion being tbe instigators actually want to fight whereas the talkers just want to look tough. Not trying to be an internet tougn guy and I've seen and been in violent situations also, so, hooray for us!! :hug:
> 
> I think we see this thing differently, you seem to think I'm blinded by fanboyism and I think you're blinded by sheer Chaelhate. In my opinion Wandy was posturing and Chael decided to be the bigger man. Barring an admission from either man we'll probably never come to an agreement.


It's alright, I may or may not have had a couple of brews before some of my posts in this thread over the weekend too :innocent01: :hug:

You're right, a lot of talkers do it to look tough. But many actually do it to give fair warning / last chance or actually instigate the fight. It's hard to just swing at someone for no reason until they somehow wrong you directly first or cross a line, that's why people pick and instigate the fight if they dislike someone. I've seen it many times, and a lot of the times the guys that give fair warning are the tougher fights because they're not angry, uncontrolled bums. Sometimes they really are just posturing and bluffing though and head for the hills if it gets called, but somehow I really doubt Wanderlei falls in that category.

It may be hard to believe, but I don't actually hate Chael. I just really, really dislike his methods, and I think they get him creamed more than they help him.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

AmdM said:


> This shit is serious.
> 
> How long is MMAF users gonna have to endure this kind of behaviour?
> 
> ...



I agree, these people complaining maybe should go create their own forum where they all can live happily ever after and just agree with themselves because they clearly can't handle other people having different opinions.

What's sad is someone just attacked you because you're from Portugal yet a lot of these people in all likelihood have never traveled further than their parents basement and know nothing about other countries except some preconceptions which they read about on the internet.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Well this thread has done nothing to change my opinion on the Chael/Wanderlei issue but has done wonders to convince me that both BOOM and OWNS have the mentality of small children. Something all too common on the forums these days.

*sigh*

I used to like this forum.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

This thread hasn't been closed yet?......shocking.


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## lights out 24 (Jul 23, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> Well this thread has done nothing to change my opinion on the Chael/Wanderlei issue but has done wonders to convince me that both BOOM and OWNS have the mentality of small children. Something all too common on the forums these days.
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> I used to like this forum.


Lol agreed! 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Zero reason to close down a thread with a perfectly normal discussion being had about a potential fight a ton of fans want to see for various reasons. There's a bit of temper being thrown around but that's not even the slightest bit unusual.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

This fight won't happen at this show, something will happen between now and then. Seems like a "too good to be true" main/co-main combo.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> Well this thread has done nothing to change my opinion on the Chael/Wanderlei issue but has done wonders to convince me that both BOOM and OWNS have the mentality of small children. Something all too common on the forums these days.
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> I used to like this forum.


Fully agreed. It's going downhill fast.

When you put them on your block list, threads tend to make more sense & have less not-even-good-enough-for-4chan crud to wade thru. Recommended.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

The Best Around said:


> This fight won't happen at this show, something will happen between now and then. Seems like a "too good to be true" main/co-main combo.


I think it might, the ball is rolling full steam ahead at this point from both fighters but the only thing stopping it from happening is the UFC not wanting to give Wand a fair share, even though the UFC are also the ones who want this fight to happen at their event. Sad really as they have the means or money to pull it off easily and offer their customers a much better PPV.


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