# UFC 157 Tickets Not Selling Well



## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

*Ronda Rousey isn't a box office knockout for UFC 157 tickets*


While Ronda Rousey was the most talked about new star in mixed martial arts in 2012, it was considered a major risk when it was announced she would have her first match in the UFC as a pay-per-view headliner.

While major women's matches have done well as far as television ratings are concerned, only one MMA fight, the 2009 battle with Gina Carano vs. Cris "Cyborg" Santos, was a big ticket seller in a major arena as the main event. And no women's fight had been on, let alone headlined, a successful MMA pay-per-view show.

Furthering the risk is that Rousey's first opponent in defense of her UFC women's bantamweight title, essentially the former Strikeforce title belt being brought over, Liz Carmouche (7-2), was a name only known to hardcore MMA fans.

The location, the Honda Center in Anaheim, Calif., was also a risk. While Rousey is from Southern California, the Los Angeles/Anaheim market has never been an easy one after the immediate sellout of the company's debut show there in 2006. Generally speaking, the more a city is run, outside of Las Vegas which is a strong casino market, the harder it is to sell tickets.

While the 2010 Brock Lesnar vs. Cain Velasquez heavyweight title fight at the Honda Center got off to a strong start even that wasn't an instant sellout. But most shows at the Honda Center or Staples Center in Los Angeles have in recent years done more in the range of 6,000 to 7,000 tickets over he first week of sales.

With tickets having gone on sale the week before Christmas, less than 5,000 tickets have been sold for the Feb. 23 date and the ticket gross is in the $600,000 range. That's slightly less tickets, and slightly more dollars, than the company's previous major event in the market, the Aug. 4 FOX show, headlined by Mauricio "Shogun" Rua vs. Brandon Vera, at the same point in time.


http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/1/2...snt-a-box-office-knockout-for-ufc-157-tickets


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

No surprise there. 

I wonder if Hendo-Machida was the main event, would there be any difference in ticket sales?

I'm interested to see how Invicta's online PPV sales do.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Unfortunate, hopefully things pick up its a great card.


Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

The UFC needs to get into marketing mode, one fighter does not sell a fight and the UFC has rolled out the red carpet for Rousey and done nothing for Liz Carmouche which basically sums up like this. If one fighter in the UFC is well known and he is fighting somebody people know nothing about then they expect a blow out and don't care. They are also giving Carmouche who hasn't had to do all the media tours that Rhonda has an opportunity to kill womens MMA in the UFC before it starts.


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## guycanada (Dec 13, 2008)

OHKO said:


> No surprise there.
> 
> I wonder if Hendo-Machida was the main event, would there be any difference in ticket sales?
> 
> I'm interested to see how Invicta's online PPV sales do.


The simple answer is no!

Ufc 151, had 3000 tickets sold leading up to the cancellation.

Hendo is a great fighter, but his name alone combined with Jon Jones couldn't bring in the fans to Vegas of all places..

I was a little surprised to hear that the Ufc was going back to Anaheim after the dismal attendance of Ufc on Fox 1


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Toxic,
Can you please explain to me how Carmouche pulling off the underdog victory would be 'killing woman's MMA before it has a chance to start in the UFC'? I guess I don't understand why Liz Carmouche is catching so much hate, she may not be as pumped up by the media, but she is a solid fighter and I think she will give Ronda a run for her money.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Cowgirl said:


> Toxic,
> Can you please explain to me how Carmouche pulling off the underdog victory would be 'killing woman's MMA before it has a chance'? I guess I don't understand why Liz Carmouche is catching so much hate, she may not be as pumped up by the media, but she is a solid fighter and I think she will give Ronda a run for her money.


I agree, in reality Carmouche winning is the best thing for WMMA.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

The title of this thread is completely misleading. If you actually read the article it says that ticket sales are basically selling at a normal pace compared to other events in that venue. The only conclusion is that this card isn't any different from other cards, in either a positive way or a negative way. 
The real indicator will be PPV sales. Tickets will always sell and it's not that hard to fill a venue with an established brand like the UFC. PPV, however, has no limit to buys and cannot be "filled up". PPV is also sold at a set price, so it will be interesting to see who will dish out the money to watch this card. I know I won't.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

OHKO said:


> No surprise there.
> 
> *I wonder if Hendo-Machida was the main event, would there be any difference in ticket sales?*
> 
> I'm interested to see how Invicta's online PPV sales do.


I think so, and the card itself could have used another another bigger name fight to beef things up. It's very weak as it stands considering it's a PPV and if one of Hendo or Machida gets injured...


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> The title of this thread is completely misleading. If you actually read the article it says that ticket sales are basically selling at a normal pace compared to other events in that venue. The only conclusion is that this card isn't any different from other cards, in either a positive way or a negative way.
> The real indicator will be PPV sales. Tickets will always sell and it's not that hard to fill a venue with an established brand like the UFC. PPV, however, has no limit to buys and cannot be "filled up". PPV is also sold at a set price, so it will be interesting to see who will dish out the money to watch this card. I know I won't.


I think it'll do well, it's the first time Women fight in the UFC so I think that'll draw some interest, they're doing a primetime to promote it, Ronda can speak and Liz is very easy to promote, I've got it doing similar numbers to Silva/Bonnar.

Hell, if people paid to watch Silva/Bonnar I have no idea why they're complaining about Rousey/Carmouche, Silva/Bonnar was the definition of a lamb being led to the slaughter.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Hell, if people paid to watch Silva/Bonnar I have no idea why they're complaining about Rousey/Carmouche, Silva/Bonnar was the definition of a lamb being led to the slaughter.


This. Everything about this is correct in my mind. Rousey/Carmouche should be leagues ahead of Silva/Bonnar in terms of entertainment value. I don't know about you guys, but I prefer good fights to absolute blowouts, nine times out of ten.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

People have been wary of buying early since UFC 151 cancellation. I expect this to be the new norm.


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

Well because there are alot of people including myself who are not interested in spending money on a womens title fight.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

EVERLOST said:


> Well because there are alot of people including myself who are not interested in spending money on a womens title fight.


Care to elaborate a little bit as to why that is?


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

Cowgirl said:


> Care to elaborate a little bit as to why that is?


Womens baseball started again in the 90's. Did you see it? Womens Soccer is only popular during the olympics and if the girls are winning. Womens football is only popular because they put the girls in lingerie. Womens basketball only make it because of the NBA, the highest paid womens basketball player only makes 100,000 a year. Its the latest fad and the people interested will be into it for a year maybe two and then it will go the way of every other womens sport. Unless its gymnastics. Even still every four years. Wait....how about womens tennis? Oh yeah only when hot girls are playing do people pay attention then when they lose people no one cares anymore. Tell me Im wrong. Im not interested in watching women beat each other up. Any women who posts about women being just as strong and fast as men obviously have never watched weightlifting or olympic track. Its the truth. Women can do anything and thats awesome but Im just not interested in watching them fight.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

I'm taking UFC 157 off. The Card is just weak when you compare it to 155, 156 and 158.... Since I pay for the fights myself and I watch them in my home, i'm skipping 157. Hendo v Machida doesn't do it for me. And I have zero interest in the Rousey fight. I hardly doubt I'll even go to a bar or my buddies house for the fight either....I really don't like watching chicks fight... Maybe it's because of my job, I dunno...


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Everlast,

There are a few more things that need clarifying after your last post. Could you explain to me please how the WNBA is surviving only because of the NBA? Also, could you tell me what the maximum salary of any player, regardless of their gender has to due with any level of success? I get that they are paid partly from the revenue and that would be an indicator, however, the fact that they play it and make any money means that they are passionate about the sport and there is enough of a fan base to keep them playing. As for the other sports you mentioned, most of those have huge loyal followings, making your statement inherently false. It is one thing to say that you are only a fan of these sports at certain times, but quite another to say that no one likes them. Women's MMA will be around for a year or two and then die off? It has been around for some time already and is showing no signs of slowing down. Please, keep your mouth as closed as you keep your mind.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

It could be all economical, after the holiday season some people not be able to justify buying a PPV with fighters they're maybe not familiar with headlining the show. Maybe the UFC should have tagged the Rousey/Carmouche fight onto another PPV with another title fight, and made this the Co-Main Event.

It's untested waters, but that should not take away the fact that Carmouche will give Ronda, and the fans, a hell of a scrap.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Cowgirl said:


> Everlast,
> 
> There are a few more things that need clarifying after your last post. Could you explain to me please how the WNBA is surviving only because of the NBA? Also, could you tell me what the maximum salary of any player, regardless of their gender has to due with any level of success? I get that they are paid partly from the revenue and that would be an indicator, however, the fact that they play it and make any money means that they are passionate about the sport and there is enough of a fan base to keep them playing. As for the other sports you mentioned, most of those have huge loyal followings, making your statement inherently false. It is one thing to say that you are only a fan of these sports at certain times, but quite another to say that no one likes them. Women's MMA will be around for a year or two and then die off? It has been around for some time already and is showing no signs of slowing down. Please, keep your mouth as closed as you keep your mind.


Making enough niche fans to have a small loyal following and the female players being passionate is nice, but so the same can be said for professional scrabble or croquet players. 

Yet you don't see mainstream sports with viewership of millions being dumb enough to try to HEADLINE their event with such niche endeavors. 

You can open your mind all you want, but in the end you're not gonna force open people's wallets with what is basically a niche and inferior product.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

If this fight was headlining an Invicta card, it would do immensely well for Invicta and could set up the company for big things, for the UFC I can see/understand it struggling to sell. 

Not to say the UFC shouldn't have a womens division, but do they even have a division? Interesting to see where they go with dipping their toes into WMMA waters.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Liddellianenko said:


> You can open your mind all you want, but in the end you're not gonna force open people's wallets with what is basically a niche and inferior product.


Did we really just go there? I can see it being labelled a niche product, if you have your eyes closed to the millions of fans of the product. What I don't understand is how anyone can call it inferior. Just like I said in my last post, saying you don't like something is one thing, but saying no one does is quite another. To call women's MMA inferior is just plain insulting and ignorant.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Cowgirl said:


> Did we really just go there? I can see it being labelled a niche product, if you have your eyes closed to the millions of fans of the product. What I don't understand is how anyone can call it inferior. Just like I said in my last post, saying you don't like something is one thing, but saying no one does is quite another. To call women's MMA inferior is just plain insulting and ignorant.


A 3 person division with a champ that only knows one thing, and slow sluggish competition with weak sloppy looking technique at physical levels far lower than men... political correctness be damned, I gave watching it a shot and it's just plain boring. 

I can appreciate certain women's sports that involve grace and flow, but their bodies are just not cut out for fighting any more than men's bodies are for birthing another human being.

Did you really just claim "millions of fans" for WMMA? Any sort of evidence for that or did you just pull that out of the air? Because I don't know a single one in all the thousands of people I know, and I know dozens if not hundreds of regular men's MMA fans, so going by sampling I find your figures hard to believe. Do you have viewership figures for an ALL women's card in the millions? Because I can show you 5 times that for many all men's cards obviously like the ones on free to air TV.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

But back on topic, the UFC still has time to push the promoting of the event, PPV buys and ticket sales could still increase in the week leading up to it so lets just see how the final figures pan out. 

Still a lot of time left to get numbers up on the rise.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

liddell is right, also in case you haven't noticed the flyweight division with former bantamweight tile contenders and whatnot with more depth and well known fighters is getting lambasted by most of the fans so now we're adding the element of different gender fighters in a shallow division without even the invicta fighters to be accepted when flyweight can't. Dodson/johnson will probably get a barely better reception than rousey/carmouche, also the fight will be over in 1 minute by armbar


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

On wikipedia up until a few days ago they only had like 3 fights up, and I don't know if anything has changed since. Is the card even full yet?


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## guycanada (Dec 13, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> On wikipedia up until a few days ago they only had like 3 fights up, and I don't know if anything has changed since. Is the card even full yet?


Full 12 bout card

Main Card

Womens Bantamweight title bout: Ronda Rousey vs. Liz Carmouche
Light Heavyweight bout: Dan Henderson vs. Lyoto Machida
Bantamweight bout: Urijah Faber vs. Ivan Menjivar
Welterweight bout: Josh Koscheck vs. Robbie Lawler
Featherweight bout: Manny Gamburyan vs. Chad Mendes

Heavyweight bout: Lavar Johnson vs. Brendan Schaub
Welterweight bout: Court McGee vs. Josh Neer
Lightweight bout: Caros Fodor vs. Sam Stout
Lightweight bout: Mike Chiesa vs. Anton Kuivanen
Featherweight bout: Dennis Bermudez vs. Matt Grice
Welterweight bout: Brock Jardine vs. Kenny Robertson
Welterweight bout: Neil Magny vs. Jon Manley


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

guycanada said:


> Full 12 bout card
> 
> Main Card
> 
> ...


Now that you mention it I did see this on another site yesterday. But even up until like 3 days ago the full card wasn't really anywhere, and it didn't have a wiki page of it's own which is very rarley seen with UFC events.

I think people are just being stupid enough to not get it because of the female main event. Hendo/Machida are still fighting so I don't see the issue. I'm interested in the recent TUF guys' fights (Magny/Manley, Bermudez, Chiesa), Rousey, Machida/Hendo and Kos/Lawler, so theres a few fights worth getting a ticket for here.


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

I'd almost buy a ticket just to watch Schaub get KOed.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I wish Schaub's chin was better to make Nog seem better


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## Harness (Oct 3, 2009)

guycanada said:


> Full 12 bout card
> 
> Main Card
> 
> ...



Looks like a great card! So what if Rousey is headlining, come live in the UK, then you can complain about a poor main event/card.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Harness said:


> Looks like a great card! So what if Rousey is headlining, come live in the UK, then you can complain about a poor main event/card.


Or Ireland, I had only heard of UFC from a PS1 game and a Friends episode last time UFC was here lmao.

But at the same time, free PPVs > good live events.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

The girls shouldn't be headlining. I say that not because they arn't talented, but because they are being pushed ahead of Henderson and Machida - two fighters who have built their names using their talents over many years.

The girls should have been the opening main card fight, from there they would have their chance to build they names and get people to be genuinely interested to buy their PPVs based on their actual talents not the fact they are women.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Yeah I think the whole female fighters thing has been handled badly, and it's something that would have needed perfection to have succeded.

I would have signed a few more female fighters. Really to non elite fans, like me, there are only like 3 or 4 female fighters, Cyborg, Tate, Rousey and Carano. There were things that made signing all of them an issue, so really it would have been a group of unknowns that had to be signed. Signing 4 BW fighters, with Rousey being one of them, and having a tournament would have been the best way to arrange things to me. They could have been on the main card of two different events for the first round, which would have shown woman's MMA without forcing it to be something it isn't, a main event, by making it a title fight. Then, with Rousey most likley winning with ease, the UFC fans would have got to see her in the biggest stage and would get behind her (which I wouldnt mind doing myself).

Even at that, it wouldn't have been big enough to main event for at least 1 year. It could have been like the UFC did when they introduced the smaller weight classes, making it the co-main event to actual title fights.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Well Rousey/Carmouche are getting their own Primetime show, and there is still over a month left, things can still pick up. In a month more name WMMA fighters could get signed as well.

Dunno why there's a fuss over ticket sales just yet.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

gazh said:


> The girls shouldn't be headlining. I say that not because they arn't talented, but because they are being pushed ahead of Henderson and Machida - two fighters who have built their names using their talents over many years.
> 
> The girls should have been the opening main card fight, from there they would have their chance to build they names and get people to be genuinely interested to buy their PPVs based on their actual talents not the fact they are women.


That's ridiculous, Ronda has a belt. Machida and Henderson don't. The belt takes precendence over a fight that might not even determine a top contender with the way Dana flip flops these days.


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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

I also think the fact most people assume it's an easy win for Rousey means less sales. If I wanted to go an event I would avoid a headline like this as it could be over within 2 minutes and it doesn't have much name value in that sense.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

anderton46 said:


> I also think the fact most people assume it's an easy win for Rousey means less sales. If I wanted to go an event I would avoid a headline like this as it could be over within 2 minutes and it doesn't have much name value in that sense.


The thing is though is that Carmouche is tough, Ronda won't be able to walk through her, it's just the way the media is portraying things. To refer back to an earlier post about blowouts, very very few people expected anything other than complete and utter domination of Bonnar by Silva, yet they all still bought. I guess in that regard, their names saved them though.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Cowgirl said:


> The thing is though is that Carmouche is tough, Ronda won't be able to walk through her, it's just the way the media is portraying things. To refer back to an earlier post about blowouts, very very few people expected anything other than complete and utter domination of Bonnar by Silva, yet they all still bought. I guess in that regard, their names saved them though.


theres a difference,

Silva can finish a fight anyway he wants. Be it a late triangle choke, a paralyzing knee to the sternum, or a front kick to the mouth. 

Whens the last time Rousey did anything other than an armbar?

Oh wait, she hasnt.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> That's ridiculous, Ronda has a belt. Machida and Henderson don't. The belt takes precendence over a fight that might not even determine a top contender with the way Dana flip flops these days.


**** that.

The fact a belt takes precendence over the actual combatants is from the same school of ridiculous thought that sees two relative unknowns competeing in 157's main card.

I'm all for women's MMA, part of me loves that we're getting the girls to main event - but it's unearned and tainted, i can't support it this way.

:thumbsdown:


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

gazh said:


> **** that.
> 
> The fact a belt takes precendence over the actual combatants is from the same school of ridiculous thought that sees two relative unknowns competeing in 157's main card.
> 
> ...


How is it unearned? It's no different than when Cruz/Faber headlined 132.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

This fight is a clearly just an attempt to set up gimmicky cash-in fight between Cyborg and Ronda. Dana basically admitted it.

WMMA is a joke. At least in other women's sports, like women's basketball, they have good fundamentals to make up for the fact that they are athletically inferior.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> How is it unearned? It's no different than when Cruz/Faber headlined 132.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


You're Sort of right.

Looking at the 132 card, i think at that time there could be an argument for it not being the Main Event. That said Faber-Cruz were much more well known than Rousey-Carmouche are right now.

Rousey-Carmouche have 15 fights between them.. Cruz and Faber both had more fights individually going into that fight.

We just need to be fair and objective here, the girls are not the biggest draw - they are not the most well known nor have they put as much time in as Henderson-Machida, they should not be main eventing.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> The thing is though is that Carmouche is tough, Ronda won't be able to walk through her, it's just the way the media is portraying things. To refer back to an earlier post about blowouts, very very few people expected anything other than complete and utter domination of Bonnar by Silva, yet they all still bought. I guess in that regard, their names saved them though.


It will be over in less than two minutes probably less than a minute. Ronda will jab. Jab. Jab cross clinch if she can't push her to the fence she'll try a trip to a throw then throw to trip If she's not don't yet she will pull guard to an armbar and snap her arm if she doesn't tap. 

I'm sorry but this fight is a joke and it has nothing to do with women. Ronda is literally chaining Olympic judo together. She is head and shoulders above everyone not named cyborg. Most of these girls have been fighting what a couple years? How long have they been seriously training at a top level? None of them are training with world class people. I'm sorry not to be sexist but most are training with their husband or their brother. Ronda has been competing since she was what five? And we constantly hear about her training with all kinds of people. Wmma might make it at some point but it needs women training at a high level and a lot of them doing it.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

Cowgirl said:


> Everlast,
> 
> Please, keep your mouth as closed as you keep your mind.


I guess since you didnt know that the WNBA is paid for by the NBA and breaks even and nothing more would help your comment.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

EVERLOST said:


> I guess since you didnt know that the WNBA is paid for by the NBA and breaks even and nothing more would help your comment.


I suppose, taken out of context like that, my comment sounds foolish, you're right.


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

Cowgirl said:


> I suppose, taken out of context like that, my comment sounds foolish, you're right.


Its cool at least you came around ;-) It would be awesome though in a way for so many people to be wrong and it end up being a great fight to start off the year lol....which It wont but.....you never know.


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

This card is as weak as UFC 151, its an injury away from another possible cancellation. A guaranteed cancellation if Dana's girlfriend Rousey is the one that manages to drop. He did all of this for her after all.

Most people expect Rousey to just plod in, eat shots, grab opponent, judo toss, armbar. Keep trying if it didnt work. She is as one dimensional as they come, the thing is that her opponents arent at the level where they can avoid this simple thing or at least drop Rousey with a powerful punch. Only Cyborg Santos can come in and smash Rousey within 15 seconds. She is only getting this fame because Dana props her up so much.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Buakaw_GSP said:


> This card is as weak as UFC 151, its an injury away from another possible cancellation. A guaranteed cancellation if Dana's girlfriend Rousey is the one that manages to drop. He did all of this for her after all.
> 
> Most people expect Rousey to just plod in, eat shots, grab opponent, judo toss, armbar. Keep trying if it didnt work. She is as one dimensional as they come, the thing is that her opponents arent at the level where they can avoid this simple thing or at least drop Rousey with a powerful punch. Only Cyborg Santos can come in and smash Rousey within 15 seconds. She is only getting this fame because Dana props her up so much.


Not even close.

Machida/Hendo
Faber/Menjivar
Mendes/Gamburyan
Koscheck/Lawler
Schaub/Johnson

157 is a badass card and I didn't even bring up Bermudez, the future of the Featherweight division, that guy is an animal.


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## HellRazor (Sep 24, 2006)

Liddellianenko said:


> You can open your mind all you want, but in the end you're not gonna force open people's wallets with what is basically a niche and inferior product.


Let me give you a possible window into Dana's mind. Every tennis slam final that one or both of the Williams sisters played in has gotten better US TV ratings than the corresponding men's final.

Different sports, but the common idea is that Americans will watch women in individual competitive sports, IF they are stars, and IF it's for a championship. I don't think, near term anyway, the UFC has a division here. But they do have a star, and they do have a championship. And if this sells about as well as the average UFC event, he'll keep at it. 

It doesn't matter if you like it or I like, as long as ENOUGH people buy the PPV, for whatever reason. And if they are people who were NOT buying the UFC before, that's an added bonus.

It's all about the money.


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## _CaptainRon (May 8, 2007)

HellRazor said:


> Let me give you a possible window into Dana's mind. Every tennis slam final that one or both of the Williams sisters played in has gotten better US TV ratings than the corresponding men's final.
> 
> Different sports, but the common idea is that Americans will watch women in individual competitive sports, IF they are stars, and IF it's for a championship. I don't think, near term anyway, the UFC has a division here. But they do have a star, and they do have a championship. And if this sells about as well as the average UFC event, he'll keep at it.
> 
> ...


It's a short term cash grab, however, it is far from sustainable. It would not shock me at all to see the division dissolved by next year. An upper echelon of female fighters encompasses about half a dozen women. They have two stars, one in an inactive/retired Gina Carano, and the other Rhonda Rousey, and one badass in Cyborg. 

The sports of tennis and mma are entirely different that I don't think a reasonable comparison can be made. Tennis has been around forever, and was one of the earliest sports to be commonly accepted for women to competitively play. There have been a number of female tennis stars such as Martina Navratilova, Billie Jean King, Chris Evert, Steffi Graff, and Monica Seles that helped pave the way for the Williams sisters. WMMA just does not have the benefit of having a strong talent pool.

MMA is a combat sport, tennis is not. There is a reason that the HW division tends to dictate the success of combat sports, spectators want to see the biggest and the baddest, and the girls just aint gonna provide it. Lastly, tennis provides a broader sex appeal. Most men don't find bruises, bleeding, corn-rows, swelling, and tap-outs as turn on's... but watch five minutes of a Maria Sharapova match and you're money.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

HellRazor said:


> Let me give you a possible window into Dana's mind. Every tennis slam final that one or both of the Williams sisters played in has gotten better US TV ratings than the corresponding men's final.
> 
> Different sports, but the common idea is that Americans will watch women in individual competitive sports, IF they are stars, and IF it's for a championship. I don't think, near term anyway, the UFC has a division here. But they do have a star, and they do have a championship. And if this sells about as well as the average UFC event, he'll keep at it.
> 
> ...





_CaptainRon said:


> It's a short term cash grab, however, it is far from sustainable. It would not shock me at all to see the division dissolved by next year. An upper echelon of female fighters encompasses about half a dozen women. They have two stars, one in an inactive/retired Gina Carano, and the other Rhonda Rousey, and one badass in Cyborg.
> 
> The sports of tennis and mma are entirely different that I don't think a reasonable comparison can be made. Tennis has been around forever, and was one of the earliest sports to be commonly accepted for women to competitively play. There have been a number of female tennis stars such as Martina Navratilova, Billie Jean King, Chris Evert, Steffi Graff, and Monica Seles that helped pave the way for the Williams sisters. WMMA just does not have the benefit of having a strong talent pool.
> 
> MMA is a combat sport, tennis is not. There is a reason that the HW division tends to dictate the success of combat sports, spectators want to see the biggest and the baddest, and the girls just aint gonna provide it. Lastly, tennis provides a broader sex appeal. Most men don't find bruises, bleeding, corn-rows, swelling, and tap-outs as turn on's... but watch five minutes of a Maria Sharapova match and you're money.


I think CaptionRon said it better than I could, basically Tennis is a whole other ball game to combat sports. As I said earlier, sports involving grace and form are much more easily accepted and interesting in the mass public as women's sports. Blood and brute force, not so much. It just doesn't have any appeal. Frankly, for combat it looks weak as hell. The performance difference is far greater than sports like tennis / badminton / gymnastics etc. because of the greater importance of brute force, power and pure athleticism.

Women's boxing would be a better comparison, and just see how that's doing even after being around for decades. 

Also I don't see Dana doing it as a cash out. Ronda is no bigger a star than the biggest women boxer, the casual fan would pay 10 times more for the worst "GSP beating up cans from the bush leagues" fight than they would for the biggest female mma fight in all of history. People just don't care, apart from a small niche fan base. It doesn't matter if Cyborg is pumped up with enough steroids to be a male horse, she would still get her ass whupped handily by mighty mouse and people had trouble getting interested for that flyweight title fight.

I see it more as Dana getting some, hence his sudden flip flop on Women's MMA. Right after him and Rousey being seen together alone at many red carpet events. You don't see Dana attending movie premieres alone with Jones now do you? Certainly haven't seen him sporting nude Anderson Silva T Shirts.

http://middleeasy.com/index.php?opt...ere-of-sons-of-anarchy&catid=34:organizations

The profitability of this fight or the division don't matter to Dana, this is just dole for him. He's rich enough to afford a few indulgences.


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

I wish I was rich enough to indulge in Ronda....lmao.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> I think CaptionRon said it better than I could, basically Tennis is a whole other ball game to combat sports. As I said earlier, sports involving grace and form are much more easily accepted and interesting in the mass public as women's sports. Blood and brute force, not so much. It just doesn't have any appeal. Frankly, for combat it looks weak as hell. The performance difference is far greater than sports like tennis / badminton / gymnastics etc. because of the greater importance of brute force, power and pure athleticism.
> 
> Women's boxing would be a better comparison, and just see how that's doing even after being around for decades.
> 
> ...


I agree, Dana is thinking with his penis instead of what's good for business. I honestly think he's just doing this to appease Rousey and bang her on the regular. It sounds messed up, but it's not unreasonable to imagine a man in power like Dana to think this way.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> I agree, Dana is thinking with his penis instead of what's good for business. I honestly think he's just doing this to appease Rousey and bang her on the regular. It sounds messed up, but it's not unreasonable to imagine a man in power like Dana to think this way.


You actually think Dana white would make a decision like this because he wants to bang Rousey. Rhonda is good looking woman, IMO, but I would guess Dana could get much better without having to create a whole new division in the UFC.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

The only problem I have with them taking the main event spot is I don't get Machida vs. Hendo 5 rounds. I am having potentially 5 rounds of greatness reduced to 3 because a no-name is going to get arm barred by an average at best fighter in the first round.

As for them main eventing outside of that, it's a championship fight and champions fight in the main event, that's just how that works and I'm not upset about it beyond what I mentioned. 

As for it not selling well, we will see what the final numbers.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

M.C said:


> The only problem I have with them taking the main event spot is I don't get Machida vs. Hendo 5 rounds. I am having potentially 5 rounds of greatness reduced to 3 because a no-name is going to get arm barred by an average at best fighter in the first round.
> 
> As for them main eventing outside of that, it's a championship fight and champions fight in the main event, that's just how that works and I'm not upset about it beyond what I mentioned.
> 
> As for it not selling well, we will see what the final numbers.


I understand your logic behind Machida/Hendo getting 25 minutes but I think people's expectations for this fight are pretty high, I'm under the impression many see this as a possible Shogun/Henderson type fight when there's no chance it turns out like that at all.

If this goes the distance I have a feeling it won't be competitive, and more likely one sided in Machida's favor. He's just too crafty to get caught by the H-Bomb, he got dropped by an overhand right from Shogun but he fought out of character, he was too aggressive and that's not the way his style works, if he remains patient and is comfortable with picking Dan apart then I think he'll take it comfortably.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

Term said:


> You actually think Dana white would make a decision like this because he wants to bang Rousey. Rhonda is good looking woman, IMO, but I would guess Dana could get much better without having to create a whole new division in the UFC.


Yea I'd think Dana could do better than Ronda as well. I think he is banking on all of us stupid 18-30 year old males thinking with our penises rather than thinking with his own. "Come see the pretty lady fight" is basically the idea here. Basically every female to gain sports stardom in the past 20 years has been good-looking and marketed as such(see: Anna Kournikova, Danica Patrick, Jenny Finch, the Williams sisters etc.). Dana is trying to do the same. If it works he makes money, if it doesn't he can just do away with WMMA.


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

Mirage445 said:


> I wish I was rich enough to indulge in Ronda....lmao.


Why? lol She is not even that attractive. Plus she should get that thing removed from under her eye. Now Carano? That was a sexy women.


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## HellRazor (Sep 24, 2006)

Liddellianenko said:


> I think CaptionRon said it better than I could, basically Tennis is a whole other ball game to combat sports. As I said earlier, sports involving grace and form are much more easily accepted and interesting in the mass public as women's sports. Blood and brute force, not so much. It just doesn't have any appeal.


Dana is betting it DOES have appeal. We'll find out if you're right, or he is.

CaptionRon IS right. It's a short term cash grab. It's NOT sustainable. But is that a reason NOT to grab a couple million dollars while Rousey's bankable?


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

i don't get it either... have her co-main a bigger card to get people interested. most hard core fans are very apathetic towards WMMA


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Term said:


> You actually think Dana white would make a decision like this because he wants to bang Rousey. Rhonda is good looking woman, IMO, but I would guess Dana could get much better without having to create a whole new division in the UFC.





St.Paul Guy said:


> Yea I'd think Dana could do better than Ronda as well. I think he is banking on all of us stupid 18-30 year old males thinking with our penises rather than thinking with his own. "Come see the pretty lady fight" is basically the idea here. Basically every female to gain sports stardom in the past 20 years has been good-looking and marketed as such(see: Anna Kournikova, Danica Patrick, Jenny Finch, the Williams sisters etc.). Dana is trying to do the same. If it works he makes money, if it doesn't he can just do away with WMMA.


You guys are giving Dana way too much credit. Rich or not, married men looking to cheat and have casual sex aren't exactly high on the top of women's desirability chart (except for hookers maybe). Not unless they get some sort of lucrative career opportunity in return.

Maybe you haven't heard of the kind of average looking actresses that supposedly get pressured for casting couch:

http://www.ivillage.com/gwyneth-pal...eveal-casting-couch-horror-stories/1-a-289546

Personally I think both of these actresses are pretty below average looking, especially Rinna, and apparently bigwig hollywood producers have propositioned them. 

Apparently it's fairly common in the entertainment industry, even with "hollywood legend" level directors and producers:

http://www.sheknows.com/entertainme...andon-was-the-victim-of-a-casting-couch-creep

If this happens, I wouldn't be surprised if Dana actually takes up a proposition from Ronda's side, given his reputation for womanizing. Creating a division and a handful of fights which he can easily piggyback onto a regular card, and dissemble the division if it fails, is no big deal for him. Not compared to producers willing to hinge entire million dollar movies and TV shows on chancy lead actresses.

On the contrary, it's the audience who you think are more likely to think with their penises that have far more options. You really think the average young male is desperate enough to shell out $60 to watch a manly cornrowed Ronda armbar some chick in 1 min, when he can just flip the channel and watch Anna Kournikova prancing around for free? I don't, and I doubt that was Dana's line of thinking either. Whatever he is, he is not a stupid man.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Wow, the amount of conjecture and flat out rumour mongering in this thread is outstanding.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Killz said:


> Wow, the amount of conjecture and flat out rumour mongering in this thread is outstanding.


Ok... Dana's own mom accuses him of cheating, and other random people. His wife doesn't defend him or contradict this in any way. Heck, Dana and his wife are never seen in public together. He lives in Vegas, the casino and prostitution capital of the world, and is a typical high flying, partying exec. 

Ronda is an attention hungry and ambitious woman who gives interviews all day about how she likes sex before fights, poses nude for ESPN. 

Dana wears around T-Shirt with said nude picture and takes her as a date on red carpet events. As if that's not an inappropriate boss-employee relationship at all.

Dana does complete U-Turn on business stance from less than a year ago. And unlike his other U-Turns, this one has no real financial upside for him.

Obviously this is all completely ridiculous and unlikely, what was I thinking. You're totally right, the entertainment industry is absolutely sparkling. It's run by unicorns and pixies and my little ponies with big dewy eyes .


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

hahaha, wow. I dont know how you took "the entertainment industry is absolutely sparkling. It's run by unicorns and pixies and my little ponies with big dewy eyes" from what i said. 

What I am saying is that 90% of the things people are accusing Dana of in this thread come from nothing other than their own minds and have ZERO evidence to back it up.

Im not saying that none of could be true but People are going on like they have a secret camera on Dana and know EVERYTHING that he does. I just find it funny is all 

P.S - Men having affairs often wear Tshirts with a naked photo of their mistress on.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Ronda is clearly ratchet.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Killz said:


> hahaha, wow. I dont know how you took "the entertainment industry is absolutely sparkling. It's run by unicorns and pixies and my little ponies with big dewy eyes" from what i said.
> 
> What I am saying is that 90% of the things people are accusing Dana of in this thread come from nothing other than their own minds and have ZERO evidence to back it up.
> 
> ...


This is not a court of law where we're sending the guy to jail, we're just making opinions and strong circumstantial evidence is hard to ignore. Heck, testimony from a mother would even count as evidence in a court of law. 

You're probably one of those people who thought Overeem was clean as a whistle up until the evidence came out right? Clearly, we aren't allowed to state the obvious here.

People wear nude T-Shirts or tattoos or whatever the heck they want of their mistresses when they don't give a damn and their wife has pretty much accepted her lot in life. Hefner did it all the time when he was married, obviously he was uh .. all business with the bunnies. 

The other way around is true though, if you want to maintain a strictly professional relationship with your employees, one of the obvious things to do is not wear nudes of them.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

So yeah....UFC 157 tickets not selling well huh?......


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> This is not a court of law where we're sending the guy to jail, we're just making opinions and strong circumstantial evidence is hard to ignore. Heck, testimony from a mother would even count as evidence in a court of law.
> 
> You're probably one of those people who thought Overeem was clean as a whistle up until the evidence came out right? Clearly, we aren't allowed to state the obvious here.
> 
> ...


What, wait... Overeem isnt clean?! :confused02:


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

Screw Rhonda. I mean who cares really? I mean Dana is pounding her now and Im sure whoever the next champ is will also be banging him and so on. What a great job. Im dumb and I bang hot chicks and run the fight world. Score one for Dana the douche bag White.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I'd probably turn sex with Ronda down. She only knows one move and I don't want to end up wearing a johnny and getting a X-Ray.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

EVERLOST said:


> Screw Rhonda. I mean who cares really? I mean Dana is pounding her now and Im sure whoever the next champ is will also be banging him and so on. What a great job. Im dumb and I bang hot chicks and run the fight world. Score one for Dana the douche bag White.


:confused03:


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## Hexabob69 (Nov 8, 2008)

Many here seem confused themselves as to which head they would think with if they were in charge. Nice to see that sexual harassment is alive and well... Amazing really from the generation who is banning bullying. This thread started on a bad note and no matter what redirection some have tried rerouting it keeps going to shit. This board is not mature enough it seems...


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

When it comes to WMMA a lot of posters really show their bad sides.

Unsubscribing from this thread now because I will be banned if I retaliate to some of the sexist shit I've been reading on here. The whole "women will always be inferior athletes to men", the "WMMA is a joke" bullshit is really starting to wear thin on me.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

LizaG said:


> When it comes to WMMA a lot of posters really show their bad sides.
> 
> Unsubscribing from this thread now because I will be banned if I retaliate to some of the sexist shit I've been reading on here. The whole "women will always be inferior athletes to men", the "WMMA is a joke" bullshit is really starting to wear thin on me.


Liza I agree a lot of people are showing some rudimentary point of views, but it is fact that "women will always be inferior athletes to men". I don't mean that to be a knock on anyone as women are definitely not inferior as human beings, anyway here is a good breakdown on the athletic differences between men and women:



> The athletic differences between men and women are large because the physiological differences between the two sexes are large, according to the textbook "An Invitation to Health." The average man is stronger than the average woman even when they weigh the same because of their body composition. Men also have a physiological advantage over women because their hearts, lungs and legs tend to be larger. However, women's bodies give them an edge in ultraendurance events and sports that emphasize flexibility.
> 
> *Strength*
> The average U.S. man is slightly taller than 5 feet 9 inches tall and weighs 190 lb., while the average U.S. woman is slightly under 5 feet 4 inches tall and weighs 163 lb., according to a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report. This size difference gives men an advantage in many team and individual sports, but men also have a strength advantage in sports such as boxing and wrestling where the two competitors are about the same size. A typical man has about twice as much muscle and half as much fat as a similarly sized woman. According to "An Invitation to Health," 27 percent of an average woman's weight and 15 percent of an average man's weight is fat. "Men are about 30 percent stronger," concluded author Dianne Hales.
> ...


http://www.livestrong.com/article/347443-athletic-differences-between-men-women/


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

MMA fans will never be satisfied. We all need to just accept it, for one reason or another this fight isn't getting love and I've accepted that and I don't really care either. I'll enjoy it and ill enjoy Machida/Hendo and that's what counts.


Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> MMA fans will never be satisfied. We all need to just accept it, for one reason or another this fight isn't getting love and I've accepted that and I don't really care either. I'll enjoy it and ill enjoy Machida/Hendo and that's what counts.


Yeah I don't understand. The card is stacked, this isn't boxing. The last Australian card was 10x worse than this.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

If men weren't superior athletes we wouldn't need to separate men's and women's sports. There are literally no women good enough to compete at the highest level in any athletic sport.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Killz said:


> What, wait... Overeem isnt clean?! :confused02:


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


>


:thumb02:


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

Women get so uptight when a man says anything about women not being able to compete on the same level as a man but you never see men complain when a woman says " OH YEAH WELL YOU CAN NEVER CARRY LIFE INSIDE YOU!!!" lol yeah you are right. Good luck with that one. I guess thousands of years of genetics and history has shown nothing to warrant the idea that men are stronger and faster than women. I NEVER SAID A WOMEN CANT BE STRONG AND FAST but as a whole they will never be as athletic and strong as a man and popularity in womens sports has shown no sign of ever beating mens sports. Its a fact we have been debating for 8 pages of thread now.


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