# Frank Mir thinks Lesnar beats Overeem easily



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

> Though once heated rivals, the feud between Frank Mir and Brock Lesnar has tapered off over the last few years due to new professional challenges for both, Lesnar’s health-related inactivity, and, as it turns out, the feelings never being all that hard to begin with.
> 
> Mir recently spoke about Lesnar where he revealed his harsh words for the former UFC heavyweight champ, including his desire to break Lesnar’s neck and see him die of Octagon-related injuries, were little more than an attempt at hype.
> 
> ...


*Source: FiveOuncesOfPain.com*


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

good interview and I agree.

Judging Overeem on his last performance against Werdum, he looked very slow and didn't look too impressive. If Werdum's BJJ can do that to Overeem, how will Lesnar's speed and wrestling affect him? 

It all depends on whether Overeem can stuff that first takedown. Even Cain wasn't able to stuff a takedown, but he did get up from his back. 

Also depends on what type of Lesnar we will see.


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## Hennessy (Feb 28, 2011)

I wasnt impressed with Overeems fight against Werdum as well.

but Werdum didn't want to fight that night. So it is mostly his fault that the fight was so lame not Overeems.

I think that Overeem will beat Lesnar. Knockout 1st rd.
Brock never faced a striker like him and he clearly doesn't like to get hit.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

Mir is delusional and Brock's takedowns are overrated,Reem will stuff Brock's takedowns and keep the fight standing Brock will turtle up like the bitch that he is and then run back to WWE.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Hennessy said:


> I wasnt impressed with Overeems fight against Werdum as well.
> 
> but Werdum didn't want to fight that night. So it is mostly his fault that the fight was so lame not Overeems.
> 
> ...


 Overeem is still 80% at fault for the Werdum fight. Werdum engaged Overeem standing far more than Overeem tried to engage Werdum. The fight repeated the same thing over and over, Werdum would charge in land a few strikes, clinch and try to pull guard, the td's were failing but how Overeem ever won a fight in which he virtually did nothing but defend TD's I will never know. At least Werdum was trying something even if it was failing, Overeem never even tried to fight.



Bknmax said:


> Mir is delusional and Brock's takedowns are overrated,Reem will stuff Brock's takedowns and keep the fight standing Brock will turtle up like the bitch that he is and then run back to WWE.


Brocks TD's are far less overrated than Overeem's entire game. Overeem has a punchers chance and nothing more.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Overeem will trip take down Brock and ground and pound him out.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Overeem will trip take down Brock and ground and pound him out.


^^That's funny.

I agree with Mir.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Brocks TD's are far less overrated than Overeem's entire game. Overeem has a punchers chance and nothing more.


I expect Reem to win this fight easily


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Overeem via Brock running face first into an uberknee.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I think Brock should get some credit for even signing a contract to fight a beast like Overeem. He has been out for over a year and not to mention he had around 12 inches of his intestine removed. 

Most fighters would want a warm up fight but nope, Brock is taking on the best of the best.


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

If the fight makes it out of the first round I think Brock takes it to the mat and Donkey Kongs his way to a win.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

osmium said:


> Overeem via Brock running face first into an uberknee.


I think Overeem will be throwing Knees. The 1st time his foot comes off the ground his ass is going to it and aint getting up.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

oldfan said:


> ^^That's funny.
> 
> I agree with Mir.


Two glaring weaknesses in Brocks game:

Ability to take a punch
Fighting from his back

He's like a fish out of water from his back. Overeem has great trips and throws and very under rated wrestling. 

Don't be surprised to see Overeem throw him to the ground from the clinch and work the ground and pound. Seriously.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Spec0688 said:


> I think Brock should get some credit for even signing a contract to fight a beast like Overeem. He has been out for over a year and not to mention he had around 12 inches of his intestine removed.
> 
> Most fighters would want a warm up fight but nope, Brock is taking on the best of the best.


This, Brock comes into MMA takes it serious and in his second fight comes to the UFC and fights a former champion, he then squashes a very serious HW in Herring (Gatekeeper) then takes on the HW champ. Gets sick comes back and battles back from adversity against a very game Carwin. Turns around loses to Velasquaz who many were already calling the future of the division and yet the man gets no respect. Despite another serious career threatening bout with illness the man is coming back and signed to fight the man some consider the #1 HW in the world. What does the man have to do to prove he isn't some pretender masquerading as a fighter. The guy has competed against the best in the world and is looking to continue that. If Brock just wanted a paycheck he could get it for smashing a guy like Kongo, Stefan Struve or even Mir a 3rd time. The guy legitimately is a fighter through and through. There was nothing fake about the beating he fought back from against Carwin and I am sure Mir will tell you there is nothing fake about the ass kicking he received from Lesnar.


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## GoodfellaGr (Aug 16, 2011)

i believe that Mir says that cause he feels good thinking that Lesnar who smacked his face is the best out there. But he is NOT. He is not even second or third. I don't disagree with Mir, but i believe that he says what he says for his own purposes. 
Btw don't forget that Overeem is a huge guy too..


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

GoodfellaGr said:


> i believe that Mir says that cause he feels good thinking that Lesnar who smacked his face is the best out there. But he is NOT. He is not even second or third. I don't disagree with Mir, but i believe that he says what he says for his own purposes.
> Btw don't forget that Overeem is a huge guy too..


Don't forget Lesnar is a NCAA champion not some scrub who changes tires. Don't believe for a second that Lesnar only was a high level wrestler because of his size (It definetley didn't hurt him) but Overeem has never had to defend a TD like what Lesnar will bring to the table.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Don't forget Lesnar is a NCAA champion not some scrub who changes tires. Don't believe for a second that Lesnar only was a high level wrestler because of his size (It definetley didn't hurt him) but Overeem has never had to defend a TD like what Lesnar will bring to the table.


exactly.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

The one thing we know, Brock will make Overeem fight, because if he doesn't, he'll be a sitting duck. This fight is damn hard to call a outcome though, since both are suspect.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Spec0688 said:


> good interview and I agree.
> 
> Judging Overeem on his last performance against Werdum, he looked very slow and didn't look too impressive. If Werdum's BJJ can do that to Overeem, how will Lesnar's speed and wrestling affect him?
> 
> ...


EVEN Cain stuffed the first takedown?? I hope that "Even" was accidental. Because Cain is an AMAZING wrestler and there is nothing "Even" about him stuffing a takedown. Overeem is no where near being the wrestler Cain is.





Hennessy said:


> I wasnt impressed with Overeems fight against Werdum as well.
> 
> but Werdum didn't want to fight that night. So it is mostly his fault that the fight was so lame not Overeems.
> 
> ...



Overeem was injured that fight if i recall? I think he had a broken toe or something. Plus it was Werdums fault for that horrible fight. Every time Overeem would start punching, Werdum would just fall to his back and beg his opponent to join him. It was pathetic.


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## sylaw (Feb 18, 2008)

I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that Lesnar can't take a punch. He obviously took plenty of punches from Carwin and didn't get finished and he also took quite a bit of punishment from Velasquez before his loss. The fact is, he can take a punch. It's just that he's scared of getting hit. He needs to stop curling up into a ball everytime someone hits him and he'll be fine.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Two things for people that are comparing Brocks fight with Cain to what they think his fight with Overeem will look like. 1. Cain is a better striker then Overeem. I am a huge K1 fan and I think Cain or JDS would have easily won the GP that Overeem did as well. Feel free to go back and watch it again. Spong shouldnt fight at SHW, he is to small to fight at SHW and will wear down an just about any fight with a huge guy that goes the distance. He has the same problem that Manheof does in K1. Saki went into that fight with a busted arm and was done after it got hit once. Overeem didnt do that damage, Saki's fight with Ghita did. Aerts is old as hell and just gave the fight of his life against one of the best kickboxers of all time. 2.Cain is in a differen world then Overeem when it comes to wrestling and Brock was still able to get him down. Cain also wasnt afraid to open up and strike because he knew he could get back to his feet if he got taken down. The dude can flat out wrestle. He has been doing it his whole life. Overeem doesnt have that same guarantee. If he was afraid to open up against Werdum in fear of being taken down, what makes you think he will do anything differently agianst Brock? 


I see Brock taking this fight without to much trouble.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> EVEN Cain stuffed the first takedown?? I hope that "Even" was accidental. Because Cain is an AMAZING wrestler and there is nothing "Even" about him stuffing a takedown. Overeem is no where near being the wrestler Cain is.


You're reading it wrong.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Don't forget Lesnar is a NCAA champion not some scrub who changes tires. Don't believe for a second that Lesnar only was a high level wrestler because of his size (It definetley didn't hurt him) but Overeem has never had to defend a TD like what Lesnar will bring to the table.


When is he going to show those skills? His takedown is essentially a football tackle that any huge strong guy can stop by getting an underhook.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> *EVEN Cain stuffed the first takedown??* I hope that "Even" was accidental. Because Cain is an AMAZING wrestler and there is nothing "Even" about him stuffing a takedown. Overeem is no where near being the wrestler Cain is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Learn to read.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

osmium said:


> When is he going to show those skills? His takedown is essentially a football tackle that any huge strong guy can stop by getting an underhook.


geez whats with the hate? I guess the TD on Cain was a "football tackle". Yeah definately. The only "football tackle" Brock has every done was againt HH after he rocked him, it wasnt even a TD attempt..


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Keep in mind we don't know what would have happened in the 2nd or 3rd rounds of the Velasquez fight. In defending those Lesnar take-downs, Brock tore Cain's rotators cuff you don't know if the next round wouldn't have been another TeHuna/Lombard match where Cains arm would have been completely dislocated.

I'm going to make the same bet I did with Cain/Lesnar. Bet on Lesnar to win the fight, bet on Overeem to KO in the first to cover the bet.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

John8204 said:


> Keep in mind we don't know what would have happened in the 2nd or 3rd rounds of the Velasquez fight. In defending those Lesnar take-downs, Brock tore Cain's rotators cuff you don't know if the next round wouldn't have been another TeHuna/Lombard match where Cains arm would have been completely dislocated.
> 
> I'm going to make the same bet I did with Cain/Lesnar. Bet on Lesnar to win the fight, bet on Overeem to KO in the first to cover the bet.


why not just not bet at all lol


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> geez whats with the hate? I guess the TD on Cain was a "football tackle". Yeah definately. The only "football tackle" Brock has every done was againt HH after he rocked him, it wasnt even a TD attempt..












Oh no he didn't.

Brock is the most over rated MMA wrestler in the game. One fight where his wrestling truly impressed me and that was the second Mir fight.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Oh no he didn't.


Looks like he got rocked by a straight right and then tried driving him into the fence and in doing so caught a leg. But touche mate... touche..


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## ProdigyPenn (Sep 9, 2011)

Toxic said:


> This, Brock comes into MMA takes it serious and in his second fight comes to the UFC and fights a former champion, he then squashes a very serious HW in Herring (Gatekeeper) then takes on the HW champ. Gets sick comes back and battles back from adversity against a very game Carwin. Turns around loses to Velasquaz who many were already calling the future of the division and *yet the man gets no respect.* Despite another serious career threatening bout with illness the man is coming back and signed to fight the man some consider the #1 HW in the world. What does the man have to do to prove he isn't some pretender masquerading as a fighter. The guy has competed against the best in the world and is looking to continue that. If Brock just wanted a paycheck he could get it for smashing a guy like Kongo, Stefan Struve or even Mir a 3rd time. The guy legitimately is a fighter through and through. There was nothing fake about the beating he fought back from against Carwin and I am sure Mir will tell you there is nothing fake about the ass kicking he received from Lesnar.


That is the thing about Brock. Many MMA fans hated him and not giving him the respect. I feel that he really earn the respect by constantly fighting the best in the UFC heavyweight division since his UFC debut. I mean can you name another guy who was match up against a Former Champion for his 2nd pro fight? I dont think so. 

I used to be a Brock hater. 

Pre Herring fight, I said Herring is going to beat him. Nope. He run through Herring like he was nothing.

Pre Couture fight, I said Couture will school him. Nope, didnt happen.

Pre Mir fight 2, I said Mir will take one of his limp away. Nope. Lesnar smash Mir.

Pre Carwin fight, I said Carwin is going to blast him back to WWE. Almost but didnt happen. He came back to beat Carwin.

Post Velasquez, a lot of people are saying Velasquez prove that Lesnar is all hype. But arent be forgetting his previous fights? 

Again, I dont like Brock as a person. The way he acted after the Mir fight 2 piss me off. But I respect him as a MMA fighter. Coming off serious illness (twice) and taking on former champion immediately. 

For this fight, I am siding with the Mir prediction. Brock wresting and GNP will beat Overeem. Unless somehow Overeem can stuff all those takedown (which if he did, I will really be impress by him)


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Spec0688 said:


> You're reading it wrong.



Your right i am reading it wrong. He "Wasn't" able to stuff a takedown. That makes a bit more sense but now im wondering if that is actually true. I thought Cain stuffed a takedown. I guess il Rewatch it.




Mckeever said:


> Learn to read.


Lmao

Where do you want me to sign?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Bknmax said:


> I expect Reem to win this fight easily


Same here. I don't care what everyone else thinks. Overeem is going to stuff Brock easily and make Brock run the second he lands a clean shot. 

Overeem tko round 2.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

pfft if it makes it outside a round lesnar takes it all day every day


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

wanna do a sig bet or something fun?


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Oh no he didn't.
> 
> Brock is the most over rated MMA wrestler in the game. One fight where his wrestling truly impressed me and that was the second Mir fight.


You don't know much about wrestling do you? Let me educate you Brock went for the double leg, only caught the single, Carwin went for the flip Brock transitioned to a whizzer and both got on their feet at the same time. 

Posting that gif. would be like posting a gif. of Shogun or Rampage missing an overhand right and then claiming they are overrated strikers.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Ape City said:


> wanna do a sig bet or something fun?


I'll do a cred bet closer to the event remind me when we get closer


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

To put all the smacktalk to rest on this Cain vs Brock, Spec VS Sideways deal here, Cain did stuff the first shot, he completely absorbed it, Brock landed the second shot and Cain popped back up, Brock also caught Cain with a double against the cage but Cain popped up again, Cain also caught Brock with a great single and then proceeded to end the fight.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I'm not saying Brock is going to lose but Mir just says Brock is better that reem because Brock beat Mir.


And the difference between Cain and Overeem's wrestling and tdd is quite large IMO.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Well all I learned from reading this thread is that I'm damn excited to watch this fight because I have NO idea what will happen


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

MRBRESK said:


> To put all the smacktalk to rest on this Cain vs Brock, Spec VS Sideways deal here, Cain did stuff the first shot, he completely absorbed it, Brock landed the second shot and Cain popped back up, Brock also caught Cain with a double against the cage but Cain popped up again, Cain also caught Brock with a great single and then proceeded to end the fight.


To add to this, gotta give Dave Camarillo credit. Cain utilized the butterfly guard to shrimp and pop back up. Great technique! That was the key to his win. Take that away from Brock and your chances of winning shoots up significantly. 

Carwin was able to deflect the first takedown attempt, but drained himself. Heck even Randy did pretty good. Mir on the other hand never had any takedown defense. 

Very curious to see how long the bout will last between "The Reem" and Brock. It seems like a fight that will be determined within two minutes.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

No_Mercy said:


> To add to this, gotta give Dave Camarillo credit. Cain utilized the butterfly guard to shrimp and pop back up. Great technique! That was the key to his win. Take that away from Brock and your chances of winning shoots up significantly.
> 
> Carwin was able to deflect the first takedown attempt, but drained himself. Heck even Randy did pretty good. Mir on the other hand never had any takedown defense.
> 
> Very curious to see how long the bout will last between "The Reem" and Brock. It seems like a fight that will be determined within two minutes.


Exactly, I wonder what would have happened if cain was in full guard instead? would he have smashed him on the ground?


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

I just went back and looked at Overeem record again, I couldnt remember if he had ever fought any good wrestlers or anyone that is known for having good takedowns. He hasnt. Where are people getting any idication that Overeem will be able to stop Brock from taking him down? What evidence is there to show that Overeem can stop that takedown of a former NCAA national champion from taking him down? Im not trying to be a dick, Im really curious as to what Overeem has done that would make people think he has great takedown defense.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

joshua7789 said:


> I just went back and looked at Overeem record again, I couldnt remember if he had ever fought any good wrestlers or anyone that is known for having good takedowns. He hasnt. Where are people getting any idication that Overeem will be able to stop Brock from taking him down? What evidence is there to show that Overeem can stop that takedown of a former NCAA national champion from taking him down? Im not trying to be a dick, Im really curious as to what Overeem has done that would make people think he has great takedown defense.


Brock took down the best wrestler MMA in cain and if not for the butterfy guard may have kept him there and gnp'd him to a bloody mess if not win the fight, but overeem got taken down once or twice against werdum and has never fought a good let alone great wrestler and his striking in mma looks average when grappling is involved, as for the guillotine I don't think he'll even try it because he will lose his arm strength after it fails and then he has 0 chance and will be on the bottom.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

This is Brock's only chance. I do hope Overeem takes this though.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Rauno said:


> This is Brock's only chance. I do hope Overeem takes this though.


That only chance is a huge chance and we all know what happens when its great wrestler vs striker who seizes up when he faces a wrestler, he will pound reems face into the mat and get a stoppage and tire him out in the process, the last time brock lost he didn't lost til cain about 4 fights later.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I honestly don't understand what people see in Overeem except for his "horse meat" physique.

As chael sonnen said " it only takes 2 syllables to discredit K-1. *BOB SAPP*."

seriously... Overeem has been KO'd by *BOBBY HOFFMAN*.

Bobby was never one of the top 5 strikers in the room when he came to visit the gym I used to train at.:confused02:


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

That was 11 years ago, Overeem isn't getting hit that much anymore and he sure as hell isn't eating a big shot from Brock.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Rauno said:


> That was 11 years ago, Overeem isn't getting hit that much anymore and he sure as hell isn't eating a big shot from Brock.


There are people in this thread who are seriously discussing Overeem taking Brock down.

I believe there is a better chance that Brock wins by head kick.

Edit: yes it was 11 years ago. Do you think he's gotten faster or his chin got better in those years?


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Overeem is going to get found out by Lesnar. He just ain't quick enough or well rounded enough to be able to do what Cain did. Thats of course if Lesnar doesn't bottle it, which is certainly a possibility.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I doubt his taking Overeem down, only way it would work is by a trip of some kind and/or knockdown. 

Not saying his chin has improved but his skills have. Brock isn't exactly a world class striker so i doubt Overeem is in any trouble standing up.


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## Hennessy (Feb 28, 2011)

Spec0688 said:


> I think Brock should get some credit for even signing a contract to fight a beast like Overeem. He has been out for over a year and not to mention he had around 12 inches of his intestine removed.
> 
> Most fighters would want a warm up fight but nope, Brock is taking on the best of the best.


Thats kind of true.

But think about it. Brock is off his game since he lost the belt. Now he takes a fight where in my opinion he has nothing to loose. Should he lose he will have lost against the Beats that is Overeem. His "legacy" wouldn't be tainted.

If he would fight a warm up fight and he would lose this one, it would far more taint his "baddest man ever" thingy.
And in my opinion he would lose a warm up fight as well.

With the Overeem fight, he will make a few mill, the UFC will, and Brock can go back to WWE after the fight still with his tough guy image.

everybody wins


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Despite Brock's reaction to being hit, he still goes out and fights toe to toe. He'll either rush Reem and get the takedown, or rush Reem and get hit. If he gets hit he'll turtle a bit but still probably tie up with Reem, get him on the fence and take him down.

If Lesnar gets on top, it's very likely end game IMO. Reem will need to be very mobile, land clean punches and go in for the kill at the right time. I think Mir's prediction is quite likely, Carwin had to stuff a takedown or two before knocking Brock silly, but he still couldn't finish the fight.


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## Tonymkmma (Oct 23, 2011)

Brock gets so much hate i really dont understand it all. in mma terms he is a rookie and still his jumped straight in at the deep end. If he doesnt react like a cat thats had a bucket of water chucked on it when overeem first connects and remains composed i really expect him to win this fight.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Brock took down the best wrestler MMA in cain and if not for the butterfy guard may have kept him there and gnp'd him to a bloody mess if not win the fight, but overeem got taken down once or twice against werdum and has never fought a good let alone great wrestler and his striking in mma looks average when grappling is involved, as for the guillotine I don't think he'll even try it because he will lose his arm strength after it fails and then he has 0 chance and will be on the bottom.


This, repped ya too much recently! Or at least tried too!


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

John8204 said:


> You don't know much about wrestling do you? Let me educate you Brock went for the double leg, only caught the single, Carwin went for the flip Brock transitioned to a whizzer and both got on their feet at the same time.
> 
> Posting that gif. would be like posting a gif. of Shogun or Rampage missing an overhand right and then claiming they are overrated strikers.


You couldn't educate me on any thing sunshine. Brock basically went for a football tackle take down after getting hit in the face by Carwin.

Even throughout his wrestling years, Brock wasn't known for his technique. He has a great bull rushing double leg take down and that hasn't really converted too well into MMA.

He's the most over rated wrestler in MMA and I've been saying that since the Couture fight.

@Oldfan, you seriously thought Todd Duffee was going to beat Alistair Overeem, that makes your points in this thread moot. You also criticise the hell out of Overeems performance in the Werdum fight, well, Fabricio Werdum would most likely sub Brock Lesnar within three minutes of round one.

Brocks biggest strength is his aggression and the fact that he's just fearless in there. As SM33 said, he might not react well to getting hit, but he's a fearless mother trucker and will attack you from the get go.

That kind of aggression could definitely give Overeem problems, but it isn't enough to beat him. Overeem has far too much experience and is too well rounded to lose here.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> You couldn't educate me on any thing sunshine. Brock basically went for a football tackle take down after getting hit in the face by Carwin.
> 
> Even throughout his wrestling years, Brock wasn't known for his technique. He has a great bull rushing double leg take down and that hasn't really converted too well into MMA.
> 
> ...



C'mon now. I marveled at his once in a life time opportunity and I jumped on his little bandwagon and rooted for the underdog. Something I've been known to do.

I do seriously think Overeem is Overated.

I agree with what Mir said and i think brock is just one of a handful of UFc heavyweights who can beat him. That group includes Mir.

Overeem hasn't gotten much better over the years. He's just gotten bigger, stronger and slower. And I promise you he hasn't gotten harder to KO after suffering at least 7 in his career. if Brock tags him the way he did heath herring he's going to sleep again.

Edit: I doubt Brock would be scared of werdums guard like Overate. He'd take him down and pound his head through the floor.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Overeem will prove you all wrong when he stuffs Brocks takedowns and sends Brock running and cartwheeling for cover the second he lands a clean shot on Brock. Taking siggy bets or avatar bets


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Ape City said:


> Overeem will prove you all wrong when he stuffs Brocks takedowns and sends Brock running and cartwheeling for cover the second he lands a clean shot on Brock. Taking siggy bets or avatar bets


There won't be any cartwheel if Overeem lands clean. Brock's body will just fall limp to the floor.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

osmium said:


> There won't be any cartwheel if Overeem lands clean. Brock's body will just fall limp to the floor.


Good point.


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

Brock's chin is suspect at best. I don't think I've ever seen a guy his size turtle as much as he does when tagged, or cartwheel around the cage. Velasquez is no joke, but I was genuinely surprised during that fight.

I think this fight will all boil down to the takedown. If Overreem can keep the fight standing we might see Brock get KOed again.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

osmium said:


> There won't be any cartwheel if Overeem lands clean. Brock's body will just fall limp to the floor.


Your avy is digusting. I'd rather look at a close up of Badrs beer belly than his double chin.

Edit: I'd like to make a bet on Brock being ko'd as well. There isn't a man alive that can ko him with one shot unless he's sticking his chin out saying "hit me".


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Bknmax said:


> Mir is delusional and Brock's takedowns are overrated,Reem will stuff Brock's takedowns and keep the fight standing Brock will turtle up like the bitch that he is and then run back to WWE.


What wrestler's takedowns has Overeem ever stuffed to give you that kind of confidence in his TDD? 

Actually let me rephrase that, what wrestler has Overeem even faced in his ENTIRE 46 FIGHT CAREER that you believe he can stuff an NCAA div I champ?

Heck let me re-re-phrase that, what top 10 opponent has Overeem ever faced in MMA that he has actually beaten or not given an embarrassing fight against (Werdum)? Rogers and Duffee?

Trick questions, the answer is the same for all of them and it rhymes with Filch.

I agree with Mir. I'm glad the Overeem hype train took off so well but he has done nothing to validate it yet whereas Brock has actually beaten solid top 10s. Not to mention the obvious style clash mentioned by Mir.




Ape City said:


> Overeem will prove you all wrong when he stuffs Brocks takedowns and sends Brock running and cartwheeling for cover the second he lands a clean shot on Brock. Taking siggy bets or avatar bets


I'll take that sig bet? No hard feelings either way, but I'm just that convinced.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> What wrestler's takedowns has Overeem ever stuffed to give you that kind of confidence in his TDD?
> 
> Actually let me rephrase that, what wrestler has Overeem even faced in his ENTIRE 46 FIGHT CAREER that you believe he can stuff an NCAA div I champ?
> 
> ...


This guy gets it, I will say it one more time for you delusional people, brock took down the best mma wrestler in cain and cain got up only because of butterfly guard, overeem has not half of cains cardio or wrestling and overeem is a good k-1 striker not a good MMA striker.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Budhisten said:


> Well all I learned from reading this thread is that I'm damn excited to watch this fight because I have NO idea what will happen


This is the post that mirrors my thoughts the closest.:thumbsup:


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Overeem disagrees with Mir.:confused02:

says Brock won't make it out of the 1st round.








Here's a nice video showing the development and evolution of Overeem. in it you can clearly see that, while in the beginning he was a below average striker and poor grappler with no wrestling, over the years he has steadily gotten...



.......bigger.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> This guy gets it, I will say it one more time for you delusional people, *brock took down the best mma wrestler in cain* and cain got up only because of butterfly guard, overeem has not half of cains cardio or wrestling and overeem is a good k-1 striker not a good MMA striker.


Cheick Kongo took down the best MMA wrestler in Cain, what's your point?


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

oldfan said:


> Overeem disagrees with Mir.:confused02:
> 
> says Brock won't make it out of the 1st round.
> 
> ...


Well lets hope he didn't get a four fight contract. For fight number 3 they will be looking for a part time MMA fighter/Window Cleaner ala Cro Cop in Australia. 
I felt a lot of sympathy for him watching that video.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

oldfan said:


> Overeem disagrees with Mir.:confused02:
> 
> says Brock won't make it out of the 1st round.
> 
> ...


Yea, a below average striker that managed to out kick-box Shogun Rua, twice.


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

oldfan said:


> Overeem disagrees with Mir.:confused02:
> 
> says Brock won't make it out of the 1st round.
> 
> ...



Werd :thumb02:


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

oldfan said:


> Overeem disagrees with Mir.:confused02:
> 
> says Brock won't make it out of the 1st round.


Well Overeem is right, Brock won't make it outside the first round. I mean after you are declared the winner why would you still hang around for additional rounds?

I pretty much completely agree with Mir's breakdown of this fight. We have seen this style of fight at least 100 times and 99 times it favors the wrestler, and I don't think Overeem will be the 1%.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Cheick Kongo took down the best MMA wrestler in Cain, what's your point?


I don't remember that, but even if true that was 2 years ago or something cain has gotten much better since then and it sounds like you are trying to discredit cain now to make a point, and my point is overeem couldn't dream of taking down cain, hell werdum took reem down don't forget that, and overeem showed his poo cardio recently too.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> I don't remember that, but even if true that was 2 years ago or something cain has gotten much better since then and it sounds like you are trying to discredit cain now to make a point, and my point is overeem couldn't dream of taking down cain, hell werdum took reem down don't forget that, and overeem showed his poo cardio recently too.


How was I trying to discredit Cain? You make it out to be some huge deal because Brock took Cain down for all of 2.5 seconds and that some how makes him a monster MMA wrestler. Take downs don't mean jack unless you can't control them on the ground or mount some sort of offense. Cheick Kongo did the exact same thing to Cain, picked Cain up and slammed him down, I don't see you hailing Cheick Kongo as a monster wrestler though?

Overeem tossed Werdum around like a rag doll for most of the fight and at one point actually went to the ground with him and managed to maintain good posture and control. Overeem clearly knows how to wrestle quite well.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> How was I trying to discredit Cain? You make it out to be some huge deal because Brock took Cain down for all of 2.5 seconds and that some how makes him a monster MMA wrestler. Take downs don't mean jack unless you can't control them on the ground or mount some sort of offense. Cheick Kongo did the exact same thing to Cain, picked Cain up and slammed him down, I don't see you hailing Cheick Kongo as a monster wrestler though?
> 
> Overeem tossed Werdum around like a rag doll for most of the fight and at one point actually went to the ground with him and managed to maintain good posture and control. Overeem clearly knows how to wrestle quite well.


But werdum is a bjj guy not a wrestler, I can't even remember the last wrestler werdum took down if he ever did, I don't think he even took down arvloski. I know you hate Brock but your being one sided and making out reem will just sprawl and brawl with ease.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

OVEREEM SPRAWL AND BRAWL :thumb02:


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

oldfan said:


> OVEREEM SPRAWL AND BRAWL :thumb02:


oh oldfan you come with teh evidence


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> But werdum is a bjj guy not a wrestler, I can't even remember the last wrestler werdum took down if he ever did, I don't think he even took down arvloski. I know you hate Brock but your being one sided and making out reem will just sprawl and brawl with ease.


I don't hate Brock, I just see him for what he is. A one dimensional MMA fighter with a very limited array of skills, who isn't actually THAT good at his one speciality.

He's facing a guy who's very well rounded and has some of the best striking in the HW division with a huge wealth of fighting experience (some thing Brock greatly lacks).

I'm just being realistic. The best chance Brock has in this fight is to overwhelm Overeem from the get go and make him panic under the pressure and break mentally. Given Overeems experience though, I doubt that's ever going to happen.


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## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Hmm, orginally I thought Overeem might eat Brock for breakfast, but some of the views here and starting to sway me. I think the fight comes down to whether or not Overeem can stop the takedown. If he can stop it multiple times or at least quickly get back to his feet, then it's an early night for Brock. If he can't, then it's an early night for Overeem. Overeem's offensive wrestling isn't half bad either so it can go either way in the clinch scenario. And lets not forget his nasty guillotine. 

I dunno man, we'll see who can impose who's will on one another. I almost did forget that Overeem doesn't take punishment well himself though..


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

I think if Lesnar comes in at 100% even with the ring rust he's got a pretty good shot. He's a strong guy who's got great wrestling, he's just only had partial success applying it in MMA. I don't expect him to have greatly improved his application after the surgery, and expect him to drive for a takedown like his life depended on it, since his consciousness likely does. 

But for Overeem, if he doesn't get the (T)KO, he loses this fight. Against Werdum you saw what's been obvious for years in K-1. If Overeem is under pressure constantly, he can't set up and looks like absolute shit. He was outstruck by Werdum. In that fight the "K-1 level striker" spent almost the entire fight sitting in Werdum's guard hanging on for dear life. 

When it comes to cardio, neither guy is a machine. Agains Werdum, Overeem was on top holding him down, and he was heaving for breath by the end. How much of a dominant position does he have to be in to not gas? Lesnar has been notorious for coming out WAY too aggressive to begin with and gassing. Coming off an illness and long lay off, he HAS to keep a decent pace to keep Overeem on his heels, but also has to not go too fast and get sloppy and clipped, or burn himself out. 

Overeem DOES NOT have the wrestlin or JJ to take this fight if it hits the ground. He doesn't have the cardio to Cain Lesnar. If Overeem doesn't get grind-f*cked or TKO by GnP, I will be quite surprised.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Yea, a below average striker that managed to out kick-box Shogun Rua, twice.


Now I'm confused. When did those 2 have a kickboxing match?











Is this the kickboxing you're thinking of?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

oldfan said:


> Now I'm confused. When did those 2 have a kickboxing match?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have you even watched the fights? I already knew you would gif or reference the finish. Shogun finished Overeem on the ground. On the feet, Alistair was out striking him quite badly. That's why I said out kick-boxed and not out-struck.

For such an old fan, you're certainly not very wise.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Have you even watched the fights? I already knew you would gif or reference the finish. Shogun finished Overeem on the ground. On the feet, Alistair was out striking him quite badly. That's why I said out kick-boxed and not out-struck.
> 
> For such an old fan, you're certainly not very wise.


i watched both fights on PPV. That's how us fanboys finance this sport that you've become such an expert at by watching. for free. i'll bet mom and dad didn't let you watch back then.

I'll admit Overeem had some brief moments when he looked OK(before he got KTFO) but I don't remember them giving out scores for the kickboxing portion of the evening. If they did, I'm sure it was a big comfort to him after he woke up.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

oldfan said:


> i watched both fights on PPV. That's how us fanboys finance this sport that you've become such an expert at by watching. for free. i'll bet mom and dad didn't let you watch back then.
> 
> I'll admit Overeem had some brief moments when he looked OK(before he got KTFO) but I don't remember them giving out scores for the kickboxing portion of the evening. If they did, I'm sure it was a big comfort to him after he woke up.


>Implying I don't pay for MMA paper view events
>Implying my parents told me what I could and couldn't watch when I was 18 years old

You said Overeem was a below average striker. Below average strikers don't out kick-box guys like Shogun Rua. Overeem looked great against Shogun in both fights for the first 3 minutes.

Grow up and start acting your age.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> >Implying I don't pay for MMA paper view events
> >Implying my parents told me what I could and couldn't watch when I was 18 years old
> 
> You said Overeem was a below average striker. Below average strikers don't out kick-box guys like Shogun Rua. Overeem looked great against Shogun in both fights for the first 3 minutes.
> ...



what would you know about how my age acts junior? as much as you know about fighting.



world class striker...


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

You guys keep it civil - you're both better than this petty bickering


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

oldfan said:


> I honestly don't understand what people see in Overeem except for his "horse meat" physique.
> 
> As chael sonnen said " it only takes 2 syllables to discredit K-1. *BOB SAPP*."
> 
> ...


wow...a lucky punch when Overeem was a 21 year old kid :confused02:


in any event, Brocks wrestling is good, But I question his striking and counters...


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Have you even watched the fights? I already knew you would gif or reference the finish. Shogun finished Overeem on the ground. On the feet, Alistair was out striking him quite badly. That's why I said out kick-boxed and not out-struck.
> 
> For such an old fan, you're certainly not very wise.


And that was the problem with Alistair, skills and technique were always there, he always opened strong until he got tired. I'm sure this problem is solved now which makes him very dangerous. Alistair might be one of the best counter punchers in the planet and that's why he won't go rushing in straight to the kill against Lesnar, leaving him very vulnerable for the TD. 

It's a fun fight.


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

This Overeem stuffing Brock TD discusion is wierd.
Daniel Cormier in pre-fight said it best. Whole AKA knew that even Cain will be taken down eventually in a fight with Brock. Yeah you can defend some TD but not all. Thats why most of Cains camp was spend on defending of his back - result: His new shiny belt.

Brock wrestling: Overated or not. He was able to take every fighter down. In every fight. Win almost all wrestling matches back in amateur wrestling days.

So yes, there is a chance that Overeem will stuff some. He is a big, strong man and he has some skills. But I have huge doubts about Reem getting up with Brock laying on him.

The fight is hard to predict. But how it will look is easy to predict.

Brock goal: Take down and gnp
Overeem goal: Sprawl and brawl

How fight goes:

1) Brock will not get hit and take down Reem and finish him there.

or 

2) Brock get caught and we will have 1st round Carwin/Cain again. And Reem will go in Cains footsteps here.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

This is going to be a fun fight, eh?


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

SJ said:


> This is going to be a fun fight, eh?


It sure is.


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## M*I*R (Nov 17, 2010)

Mir knows


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## Dream-On-101 (Jun 4, 2009)

Brock is more than capable of taking down Overeem, whether it be by power double leg or after pressing him up against the cage. I am certain Brock will be physically stronger than Reem, and i would further bet he will have better cardio (assuming he doesnt charge out like a raging bull ala Cain fight). The only reason people think Brocks wrestling is not as good as it is sometimes hyped to be is because he hasnt yet perfected how to tie the shot in with his striking, which often leaves him shooting in from half way across the cage. If he can tie it in better, and that is soemthing that will only improve the more he trains, he will be very hard to beat. 

Its not like he hasnt taken down everyone he has tried to. He WILL take Reem down at some point, it is how Reem responds to this that will decide the outcome of the fight. He wont pop back up like Cain was able to (Cains smaller size and speed made that alot easier than it would be for a bigger guy) but if he can work his way to his feet another way then he has a good chance. Standing - Reem wins. On the ground -Brock wins, and it will probably look like Mir 2. 

And if they make it out of the first round, Brock will wrestlefuck him to a late finish or decision. Its an immensely interesting fight. I am an outspoken fan of both fighters, and i hope the loser looks impressive in defeat. In a wrestler v striker match, history has always taught us to go with the wrestler, and that is what i am doing. 


Two variables that i can see - Brocks ring rust / health deficiencies. What kind of shape will he turn up in? He is as close to a super athlete as you are going to get, so he will most probably come back in tremendous shape but what hes been through has got to take it out of you.

- Reem v Werdum. Did Reem just have an of night, as i tend to believe? He did win the striking, people who think otherwise need to rewatch the fight. But he looked far from impressive. If being taken down by Werdum affects his standup that badly, what will the fear of Brocks double do to him?


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

So Mir has stalked Brock so much he can see his future!!!!


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

Bknmax said:


> Mir is delusional and Brock's takedowns are overrated,Reem will stuff Brock's takedowns and keep the fight standing Brock will turtle up like the bitch that he is and then run back to WWE.


called this prediction 1 year ago while Toxic was comparing him to Fedor lol :thumbsup:


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Good call man. Also it is awesome to read through this thread and see all the people who are so confident in Brock. It really is amazing how caught up people got in Brock and also how caught up they got in Overeem's past. Overeem has matured a lot. I knew he would crush Brock. JDS is going to be much tougher for him but I see him taking that quite handily, too.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MRBRESK said:


> To put all the smacktalk to rest on this Cain vs Brock, Spec VS Sideways deal here, Cain did stuff the first shot, he completely absorbed it, Brock landed the second shot and Cain popped back up, Brock also caught Cain with a double against the cage but Cain popped up again, Cain also caught Brock with a great single and then proceeded to end the fight.


Thanks. Im glad you confirmed what i thought and that i wasnt crazy. Cain didnt just get taken down with ease like previously stated he did stuff some.




Ape City said:


> Good call man. Also it is awesome to read through this thread and see all the people who are so confident in Brock. It really is amazing how caught up people got in Brock and also how caught up they got in Overeem's past. Overeem has matured a lot. I knew he would crush Brock. JDS is going to be much tougher for him but I see him taking that quite handily, too.


yeah it is kind of funny. Looking back it at 50/50 for me. I changed my opinion on this fight more then i have any other fight. I thought it would play out 1 of 2 ways. Brock Lesnar would need to close the distance in with some punches and then go for a solid power double that uses his speed advantage. From there he would grind Overeem down and possibly get a finish near the end of the round. OR he would be so scared to get in close that he would keep his distance and attempt horrible distance shots that Overeem was going to stuff with ease and then pick him apart. Brock did go for that horrible distance shot and it got stuffed but i definitely didnt expect Overeem to knee and kick Brock to oblivion. I thought he would do it with power rights.

Looking back at it though, i should have been confident in Overeem like i was when the Cain Valesquez fight ended. I remember making a thread that said "Sooo i think its safe to say that Overeem would destroy Lesnar". I think reading all the posts made me doubt myself and i made it 50/50 instead of 90/10 like i thought before the fight was announced.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Mir is an idiot who has looked woeful in his last few fights and looked terrible Vs Nog , its not like Nog was throwing fast hands yet he still got rocked awful.

I really dont know how the guy is relevant still , awell Lesnar easily beat Overeem............to his appointment with the UFC medics.


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## arknski (Jan 5, 2012)

Dream-On-101 said:


> Brock is more than capable of taking down Overeem, whether it be by power double leg or after pressing him up against the cage. I am certain Brock will be physically stronger than Reem, and i would further bet he will have better cardio (assuming he doesnt charge out like a raging bull ala Cain fight). The only reason people think Brocks wrestling is not as good as it is sometimes hyped to be is because he hasnt yet perfected how to tie the shot in with his striking, which often leaves him shooting in from half way across the cage. If he can tie it in better, and that is soemthing that will only improve the more he trains, he will be very hard to beat.
> 
> Its not like he hasnt taken down everyone he has tried to. He WILL take Reem down at some point, it is how Reem responds to this that will decide the outcome of the fight. He wont pop back up like Cain was able to (Cains smaller size and speed made that alot easier than it would be for a bigger guy) but if he can work his way to his feet another way then he has a good chance. Standing - Reem wins. On the ground -Brock wins, and it will probably look like Mir 2.
> 
> ...



HAHAHAHA BROCK PHYSICALLY STRONGER THEN REEM? DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING DO YOU KNOW THAT OVEREEM DOES STRONGMAN TRAINING AND CAN DEADLIFT 300KG 5 TIMES + a whole lot of other crazy stuff damn you a tripper dude.


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## arknski (Jan 5, 2012)

Bknmax said:


> called this prediction 1 year ago while Toxic was comparing him to Fedor lol :thumbsup:


i was telling people this the moment the fight was announced biggest hyped up mismatch in history no one relises that overeem could easily compete in powerlifting comps if he trained for it and gave up mma he deadlifts 300kg 5 times like nothing and does a whole lot of strong man training stuff that no other mma fighter other then big pud could do but pud is barley a mma fighter so yeah.. i still firmly believe brock would have failed with a double as well before getting dropped.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Just read back through all ten pages. I'm not going to lie, it feels good to come out on top after some heated discussion.


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## StandThemUp (May 30, 2008)

***** de Amigo said:


> Mir is an idiot who has looked woeful in his last few fights and looked terrible Vs Nog , its not like Nog was throwing fast hands yet he still got rocked awful.
> 
> I really dont know how the guy is relevant still , awell Lesnar easily beat Overeem............to his appointment with the UFC medics.


Wooowwwwww!

That's some serious hating. Mir was not only the first guy to KO Nog, but also the first to guy submit him (by BREAKING HIS ******* ARM) In case you forgot.

And you think he is irrelevant after doing that?

Predicting a fight is one thing. You predict it based on what you expect someone to do.
Personally, I can not for the life of me understand why Brock stood back and tried to strike with one of the best HW Strikers on the planet.

Had Brock bull rushed right into Reem and took him down and got him on his back, things would have been totally different.

So let's not make a mistake. It's not that Brock couldn't rush in and take him down, it's that he never even really tried. I would bet tons of cash (which I don't have) or maybe an extra testicle (no comment) that Brock is kicking himself for not being more agressive in attempting takedowns. It almost looked like Brock was trying to make a point that he could be an elite stiker.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

***** de Amigo said:


> Mir is an idiot who has looked woeful in his last few fights and looked terrible Vs Nog , its not like Nog was throwing fast hands yet he still got rocked awful.
> 
> I really dont know how the guy is relevant still , awell Lesnar easily beat Overeem............to his appointment with the UFC medics.


Mir actually looked pretty good against Roy Nelson. He looked bad against CroCop and up until the sub he didnt look good against Nog. Against Roy Nelson he looked pretty solid.

I have respect for Mir because he is the "Tito" "Chuck" era fighter BUT he has somehow been able to stay relevant with the new breed of fighters. I mean Mir has a submission victory over Tank Abbot in the UFC for **** sakes. And for a HW who are actually supposed to have a shorter octagon expectancy, he is pretty amazing. And lets not forget that horrible bike crash where he was supposed to never compete again. He came back from it and looked absolutely horrible. I mean he looked ******* HORRIBLE. He then had a discussion with his wife and after she was done telling him "I should have got with a real man" he pulled himself together and became relevant again. I respect the shit out of Mir.


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