# The Anderson Silva/Fedor Emelianenko/George St. Pierre P4P Debate



## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

Between Anderson, GSP, and Fedor who do you feel is the No.1 P4P fighter in the world? Did Fedor's dominance over Tim Sylvia bumped him up to No.1 in your minds? Or do you beleive Anderson Silva is still ahead? Or are you one of the few that would put GSP ahead because he fought stiffer compitition then Anderson and Fedor combined.

My Opinion: I still think Anderson Silva and GSP are ahead of Fedor mainly because they have been destroying top level fighters for years. Last night, Tim Sylvia was Fedor's only meaningful victory in two years. Don't get me wrong, if he beats guys like Barnett and Arlovski in a dominating fashion then he would trump those two (Silva and GSP) easily. But for now I would still rank him 3rd. Anderson Silva is slightly (and I mean razor thin) ahead mainly because he is on a wicked winning streak while GSP has incurred a loss to an unranked Matt Serra. He did avenge that loss but still.

So what is your opinion?


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## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

I agree with you. I think Fedor has been the rightful #1 p4p, but now guys like GSP, BJ Penn and Anderson Silva comes up with winning formulas of their own, looking awesome in the process. More fighters than Fedor nowdays look unbeatable against top competition (and since Fedor's top competition is not as big, they get ahead of him in the p4p rankings IMO) I also think Fedor, while he looked awesome against Sylvia, still looked lackluster against Lindland, Hunt and HMC. He launched his trademark overwhelm-with-powerpunching-and-then-murder-the-shit-scared-opponent-on-the-ground tactic (see Goodridge, Zulu and Ogawa). A brilliant display of psychological warfare and punching power indeed, but the fight could easily have taken much longer and be grueling for Fedor. 

My top 5 p4p are:

1. Anderson Silva

2. GSP

3. Fedor/BJ Penn (whoever the better one of them p4p are)

4. Fedor/BJ Penn (whoever the worse of them p4p are)

5. Aoki? Big Nog? I'm too much of an Aoki and Big Nog nuthugger to answer this. If Aoki wins the LWGP, then he's the #5 p4p fighter in my book.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

When talking about P4P I think GSP is ahead of Fedor, and Fedor is ahead of Anderson Silva. GSP has more wins over top competition than Fedor, and Fedor has more big wins than Silva.

If Fedor beats Barnett and Couture by the end of the year though, then it would be very difficult to argue that he isn't the best P4P.

I personally feel he is the best fighter on the planet, but he still needs a few more big wins before you can make an argument for him in comparison to GSP.


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## pauly_j (Nov 28, 2006)

Who would win in a fight between them?


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## _JB_ (May 30, 2007)

Personally i think.

1 - GSP

2 - Fedor

3 - Anderson Silva

4 - BJ Penn


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## Red Baron (Jul 17, 2008)

i think it's between GSP and Silva
maybe i'm just racist but i really don't think BJ is that good, he WILL get beat by GSP if they fight
fedor is an incredible fighter but beating Tim doesn't do a whole lot for you in my mind
GSP and Silva should never fight i don't think, it's just not realistic although some people think it is, it's just wrong
They are extremely close and it's probably too hard to call, the only way to settle this is in a GSP Silva hockey fight


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## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

Fedor is P4P best IMO. People have found ****** in GSP and Anderson Silva's armor in their career and they have been beaten.

Fedor on the other hand has taken out Big Nog (current UFC HW Champ) TWICE, Herring, Cro Cop (in his prime), Arona, Sylvia, Sobral, Randleman, Hunt, Coleman, and plenty of others in his career.

For the past couple of years he hasn't fought top competition... Okay, who could he have fought? Randy and Arlovski were in the UFC, Barnett was all but inactive...

As it stands today, even after those three years of fighting less than top competition, he still has very little of the HW division to go through before it is completely cleaned out.

A. Silva dominates a mediocre MW division and beat Irvin at LHW. Not trying to take anything away from Silva, but beating Irvin doesn't make him anything special in my book. And A. Silva has a great victory over Hendo and two over Franklin. What other GREAT fighters has he dismantled?

GSP... I like Matt Hughes, but after seeing what Thiago Alves did to him, I don't see GSP's victory over Matt as a great accomplishment. Let's not forget that GSP got his ass handed to him by Serra the first time around.

Neither GSP or Anderson Silva have a resume like Fedor. Not even close.

Fedor is #1.


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

Before the fights last night, I was pretty disappointed that people were hating on Fedor, doubting that he was worthy at all due to his layoff.

He goes in there and destroys a former 2 time UFC Heavyweight champion like no-one has dominated big Timmy before. 

Reading through the countless threads we're still getting all of this backlash that Fedor still isn't that good and that Sylvia doesn't really count a whole lot.
For the most part I think it's ridiculous to think that Fedor hasn't just proved himself again, he may actually be a lot better than he ever was before judging from his explosiveness last night. 

Remember that he has dominated Big Nog twice, and beaten fighters with ridiculous weight/height advantages with relative ease. Who else does he have to beat to prove that he is at the top of the list? Randy Couture is really the only guy left out there that has any credentials that are meaningful.

Barnett, who has he beat lately? 
Arlovski, maybe but he will probably get destroyed.

Other than that, there are guys like Werdum and Mir, probably not going to happen though.

The UFC praise Anderson Silva for beating up James Irvin? Chris Leben? Travis Lutter? 
Sure he's beat Rich Franklin and Dan Henderson but as far as top names go that's where the list stops.
I'm not questioning his dominance but does Rich Franklin equal Big Nog? Does Dan Henderson equal Tim Sylvia? Not in my mind at least.

I love GSP but he has had a lot of ups and downs and still has a lot to prove I think before I'd give him the title of top P4P. 

He's beat Matt Hughes twice, BJ Penn once and then for the most part the rest of the guys are up and comers that may turn into big fighters in the future, but not yet.
His inconsistency in his short career is what makes me hesitant to give him more credit. 

Don't get me wrong, I love GSP but if we're talking big fights, nobody has the track record like Fedor.

With that said, I have to go

1. Fedor
2. Anderson Silva
3. GSP


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

Mine goes: Silva, GSP, Fedor


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

demoman993 said:


> Before the fights last night, I was pretty disappointed that people were hating on Fedor, doubting that he was worthy at all due to his layoff.
> 
> He goes in there and destroys a former 2 time UFC Heavyweight champion like no-one has dominated big Timmy before.
> 
> ...


You forgot Nate Marquardt! He isn't exactly some chump fighter that can be finished off easily. When Silva fought him he made it look easy. As a matter of fact, Rich Franklin and Dan Henderson aren't that easy to finish either but Silva went in there and made it easy. 

I'm not hating on Fedor! He did prove himself to me that he is a very good fighter. Nobody has ever KO'd Tim like that. 

But you have to understand considering this is his only meaningful win since Cro Cop he still has a lot of work to do. Its impressive that he can beat big guys like Zulu and Choi but the problem is those guys were pretty much MMA Newbs when Fedor fought them. Guys like Leban, Lutter, and Irvin might have been B-Level fighters but at least they had more the 3 fights on there record with some solid wins where as Zulu was 3-0 and Choi was 1-0. You can blame it on the matchmakers or the fall of Pride all you want it still won't change the fact that he still hasn't fought anybody that was really meaningful until last night. He fights two more top ten guys he will be back on top no questions asked.


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## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

The Legend said:


> Mine goes: Silva, GSP, Fedor


Might I ask why GSP is over Fedor in your mind?


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## Chipper (May 22, 2008)

Fedor's win over Tim is impressive but its not like hes the first guy to have ever floored Sylvia in the opening round...


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

stitch1z said:


> Might I ask why GSP is over Fedor in your mind?


He has more wins over top 10 level fighters! Silva and GSP was cleaning out there divisions over the past two years. Yesterday was Fedor's only meaningful victory since Cro Cop!


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

stitch1z said:


> Might I ask why GSP is over Fedor in your mind?


Well since Fedor's last big win before Sylvia(Cro Cop August of 05) Fedor only has three good wins Cro Cop, Hunt, and Sylvia. Whereas GSP has 7 good wins Trigg, Sherk, Penn, Hughes X2, Koscheck, and Serra.


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## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

The Legend said:


> Well since Fedor's last big win before Sylvia(Cro Cop August of 05) Fedor only has three good wins Cro Cop, Hunt, and Sylvia. Whereas GSP has 7 good wins Trigg, Sherk, Penn, Hughes X2, Koscheck, and Serra.


I understand that aspect, but doesn't a fighters entire career matter at all?

Fedor has never been honestly beaten in a match to date. and though two years out of his 8 years of fighting weren't top competitors, do you really think GSP or A. Silva for that matter could sit on the ground with Big Nog and win the fight? Or crush Tim Sylvia in under a minute? Or go their entire careers without suffering a loss (barring the cut loss)?

No one has figured out how to beat Fedor in his entire career. The same can't be said for GSP or A. Silva. You can't argue that.

Even according to the harshest Fedor critic only 2-3 of his 28 wins were gimmes from weaker opponents. How can anyone deny the guy his spot as number one?


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## Shamrock-Ortiz (Sep 22, 2006)

The Legend said:


> Mine goes: Silva, GSP, Fedor


Wow, God is only in 3rd???


EDIT:
Me personally, I think Fedor is the best fighter on the planet.

People can rank him behind GSP and Anderson if they want, but the reason is because of who Fedors fought, not because he is a worse fighter than those two, so I'm fine with that.


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## Wokka (Jul 17, 2008)

Fedor lost from a cut.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I got GSP, Fedor, then Anderson. They are all great but Fedor has dominanted two of the top 5 in his divison and Anderson has as well but honestly I think beating Nog and Sylvia is better han beating Henderson, and Franklin.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

My criteria is a little different.

I think it goes - 
1. Silva
2. Fedor
3. GSP

We can argue records, but i think the fashion of HOW they win is the most important. Who looks the most dominant in the ring? GSP looks great for sure, but Fedor and Silva look like men fighting children. Silva edges out Fedor imo because he looks like he could literally kill his opponent if he had the whim.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I still think BJ Penn is the best P4P fighter in the world, at least when he is motivated, #2 is GSP but the problem with these two is they lack the killer instinct of Anderson or Fedor who always come come motivated an ready to go, Although undeniably Fedor has fought the best HW's the world has to offer and took the fight to every one of them I dont see the HW division as the most talented so I find it hard personally to rank the most talented guy in the weakest talent wise division the best P4P fighter in the world especially when its the heaviest division, I mean Fedor beating Sylvia talent wise would be like BJ Penn beating Chris Leben only the 30lb diffrance would be a larger % of there overall mass, I also find it hard to believe Fedor would have been nearly as sucessful in MMA if ***** was as widely respected as BJJ in the sport. Anderson Silva has merely looked like a monster in one of the weakest divisions and has really only dominated Rich Franklin twice and Chris Leben, I mean Hendo took the fight to him and proved he was human in there first round before Anderson destroyed him in the second and Lutter who has always been mediocre put up a decent fight, I find Anderson has done alot to to show he is a great fighter but he really hasnt done it against anyone of the caliber in some of the lighter divisions, 

1. Penn
2. GSP
3. Fedor
4. Anderson


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## haymaker85 (Aug 10, 2007)

GSP shouldn't even be in this conversation about best P4P. I mean he lost to Matt Serra just last year, and he has yet to make a successful title defense. I think we need to wait to consider GSP even at #2.


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## Tripod87 (Dec 30, 2007)

I have Fedor at number 1 for another big reason that I feel no one considers, but it also may just be my opinion and how I consider things.

We are doing P4P rankings. Pound for Pound. There are many small HWs in the HW Divison, but Fedor has got to be one of the smallest since Vera left at 230 pounds. He gave up 33 pounds to big tim and stil gives up 10+ pounds to Big Nog and many pounds to other great fighters like Barnett.

I know it may not be as big as a factor as I make it sound to be, but I think that fact does and should propel Fedor a little more in the P4P rankings. Could Silva and GSP consistently win and dominate guys (ranked top tier guys) 15-35 pounds heavier than them? Maybe, even quite possibly, but we will never really know. Many people put less emphasis on the HW division in P4P since you cannot fight heavier guys, but when you are seriously underweight in that division, it makes you shine even more in my opinion.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I also considered that fact Tripod but if you go back a page your see I used it to come to a much diffrent conclusion.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Tripod that's a real good point I didn't think of.

Anderson and GSP have a size advantage in all their fights Fedor is at a disadvantage Although I still think the fact GSP cleared out most of his divison makes him #1.


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

I think fedor is number 1 just because he hasnt lost in for ever and he has fought top competition and just made big tim look like a fool when he is a top 10 hw.

GSP - definately up there but not number one because he recently lost to matt serra because of ill preperation or mental instability which ever you want to call it. He has made a name for himself as a ww champion but he hasnt been a dominant champion yet and has won the title twice but has never defended. 

To put it bluntly he just hasnt done enough to be number 1. I can see him claiming the title after a few title defenses and if he moves up and beats anderson silva but for now he just hasnt done enough hes still kind of young so he will do it, its just a matter of when.

Anderson - he has been dominant at 185 but he really hasnt faced many top tier guys since hes defended or won the title. The ufc has a pretty shallow 185 division. He has dominated it but really who has he beaten? Rich franklin, nate marqt and henderson. Fedor has beat many more top name guys. 

They have both defended their titles dominantly but the problem lies in how many top tier guys anderson has faced. Even now his next two title defenses are pretty much a situation where they had no one else for him to fight.

BJ Penn - Just won the lw title and bounced back from back to back losses from GSP and Hughes. He has defended his title once against sherk so he isnt a dominant champion yet. I can see him moving up in the rankings when he defends his title a little bit more and if the GSP Penn fight happens and he wins. Other then that he is definately number 4.


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## Tripod87 (Dec 30, 2007)

Toxic said:


> I also considered that fact Tripod but if you go back a page your see I used it to come to a much diffrent conclusion.


I undetsand what you mean, but the fact of the matter is that everyone is still fighting guys relatively the same weight and when they are not, it's of guys that are much less skilled (Irvin). And I'm not sure what you mean comparing Leben to Sylvia. Sylvia's worlds better than Leben skill and technique wise.

And in my opinion, if you are bumping people down because people don't know their background style (*****) that a top fighter uses, that just seems unjustified. Are Shinya Aoki and BJ really not that great because no one deals with flexible guys who utilize a great rubber guard? Technically, not a huge base of fighters are actually _well_ trained in Muay Thai either, but that doesn't mean Silva should be bumped down either. Machida for his karate?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

More what I meant with the ***** background is that BJ fights guys with strong BJJ blackbelts but Fedor doesnt fight guys with a strong background in his primary style, Id just like to see him face somebody like Arlovski who nowhere near as accomplished as Fedor still has a strong ***** background should give him an edge over most in defense anyways, stylistacly I'd just like to see him face somebody whith a better knowledge of *****, by comparison its like you saying to me BJ beat Sherk and Stevenson but you'd like to see him face a great BJJ guy. As for the Leben/Sylvia comparison, I dont think its true, I think Sylvia has gotten to were he is by being a interesting combination of skill and size, if Tim was 215 pounds and 6'1" he'd have never been a world champ. I think P4P Tim Sylvia is about the same as Leben, the diffrance is Sylvia is fighting guys he out weighs by like 30lbs.


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## GeGGosbg (Apr 22, 2007)

I always thought that P4P ranking ment the person with the biggest skillset thus stating if he had more/less fat he would be awesome in that other weightclass also.


So what does wins and losses have to do with anything here ?


Fedor is for me the best heavyweight in the world

Anderson the best middleweight

GSP the best welterweight



And I am still wondering why people talk about Pound for Pound rankings, they are all 3 awesome fighters in different weightclasses and they bloody hell excite everytime they fight, for me they are 3 AWESOME fighters =D


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## NOLA_JACK (Oct 22, 2006)

The Legend said:


> Well since Fedor's last big win before Sylvia(Cro Cop August of 05) Fedor only has three good wins Cro Cop, Hunt, and Sylvia. Whereas GSP has 7 good wins Trigg, Sherk, Penn, Hughes X2, Koscheck, and Serra.


Serra isn't even close to a top 10 fighter, and sherk and penn are 155 guys. I wouldn't consider Trigg a top 10 fighter either. With that being said, fedor has beaten great fighters, he simply hasn't been able to get good fights lately. Crocop, sylvia, big nog, all impressive wins. To add more detail, he DESTROYED tim sylvia, the man who made randy take 25, while he had a back injury and is a 2 time HW champ. 

As for silva, he is dominant in a thin division, and IMO lost the first round to hendo.

Fedor simply dominates everyone, including the best fighters in the world, and I simply don't see anyone else doing it on his level. He out struck someone with a massive reach advantage, who is billed as a striker, and put away the person who is probably #2 in the world in his class, in under a minute.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

NOLA_JACK said:


> Fedor simply dominates everyone, including the best fighters in the world, and I simply don't see anyone else doing it on his level. He out struck someone with a massive reach advantage, who is billed as a striker, and put away the person who is probably #2 in the world in his class, in under a minute.


Last time I checked Nog/Fedor went to a decision so I think it took more than a minute. If you were talking about Sylvia how is a guy that was 1-2 in his last three coming into the fight considered the #2 HW? The Sylvia fight is impressive Tim is just not #2.


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## Majoravsfan (Jul 21, 2008)

1 Fedor

2 Anderson Silva

3 GSP

4 BJ Penn


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

Majoravsfan said:


> 1 Fedor
> 
> 2 Anderson Silva
> 
> ...



agreed


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

haymaker85 said:


> GSP shouldn't even be in this conversation about best P4P. I mean he lost to Matt Serra just last year, and he has yet to make a successful title defense. I think we need to wait to consider GSP even at #2.


Oh yeah, because losing once to a guy like Matt Serra completely erases the fact that he beat guys like Frank Trigg, Matt Hughes x2, Karo Paryisian, Jason Miller, Sean Sherk, Josh Koscheck, BJ Penn, and of course Matt Serra. Yeah, he shouldn't be considered at all for best P4P!:sarcastic08:


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

ManCrusher said:


> Anyone who says fedor is the best POUND FOR POUND fighter in the world is an idiot and probably new to MMA. When talking about p4p I would have to go with either GSP or silva


That sentence seems unbiased, intellectual, and fact supporting.


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## Double Dizzle (Jul 21, 2008)

Four pages and nobody has thrown Faber into the mix?


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Faber has only fought one elite guy though, and he couldn't finish him.


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## Squish (Jul 21, 2008)

1. Fedor
2. BJ Penn
3. Anderson Silva
4. GSP


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

Fedor, Anderson Silva, GSP, and then BJ Penn. 

There's literally no one for Fedor to beat besides Couture, Barnett, and Arlovski. He would kill everyone if he somehow, someway, went to LHW. So basically the only people Fedor has left to beat in all of MMA is Barnett, Couture, and Arlovski.


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> When talking about P4P I think GSP is ahead of Fedor, and Fedor is ahead of Anderson Silva. GSP has more wins over top competition than Fedor, and Fedor has more big wins than Silva.


GSP is good, and you can excuse his loss against Hughes by talking about nerves or mental preparedness, and against Serra by calling it a fluke (or not excuse it, whatever), but I can't compare GSP's record to Fedor's complete and total dominance.

My thought has been that Fedor was #1. After the Irvin fight, I am starting to wonder how close Anderson Silva is to him... maybe pretty close.

GSP is close, but still below Silva, IMO. But it will be interesting to see how things pan out over the next couple of years.

GSP vs. Andy may happen, but between weight and organization, I don't think either of them will ever face Fedor.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

It has to go 
1. Fedor
2. Silva
3. GSP
4. BJ Penn

I don't see any other way it can logically go.


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## Tilen (Jun 20, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> It has to go
> 1. Fedor
> 2. Silva
> 3. GSP
> ...


yep, this is how it goes :thumbsup:


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## Beqwith (Nov 19, 2006)

*GSP or Silva*

Obviously we are splitting hairs here and no one can take anything away from Fedor. But the fact is he is a heavy weight and any P4P discussion has to address that heavyweights do not have the same skill sets as the smaller weight classes. Fedor has hand speed and aggression like no one else in his class and that's what makes him so dominant. GSP and Silva go out and prove their superiority against men with similar physical tools and beat them with superior technique. You can't say that happens in the heavyweight division with all the gassing and hail mary punching that goes on there. 
An aside to GSP's greatness; Jon Fitch is a world class fighter a worthy champ any other year, and GSP is going to school him.


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## mmawrestler (May 18, 2008)

I really think it goes

Anderson Silva
Fedor
BJ Penn
GSP


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## Beqwith (Nov 19, 2006)

Yeah, lets put BJ ahead of a guy that already beat him and will beat him again, this fall.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Beqwith said:


> Yeah, lets put BJ ahead of a guy that already beat him and will beat him again, this fall.


Uh since you want to bring it up, BJ controlled alot of that fight, GSP may have squeeked out a victorty but since this is still a P4P disscussion I suggest you start comparing sizes since GSP is huge for WW and BJ is a pretty comfortable LW. So if they are pretty much dead even the nod has to go to the smaller guy.


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