# Independent World MMA Rankings



## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

June 19, 2009: We are proud to announce the launch of the Independent World MMA Rankings. Some of the best and most knowledgeable MMA writers from across the MMA media landscape have come together to form one independent voting panel.

These voting panel members are, in alphabetical order: Zach Arnold (FightOpinion); Nicholas Bailey (MMA Ratings); Jared Barnes (Houston Chronicle); Jordan Breen (Sherdog); Jim Genia (Full Contact Fighter, MMA Memories, and MMA Journalist Blog); Jesse Holland (MMA Mania); Robert Joyner (MMA Payout); Todd Martin (CBS Sportsline); Zac Robinson (Sports by the Numbers MMA); Michael David Smith (AOL Fanhouse); Jonathan Snowden (Author of “Total MMA: Inside Ultimate Fighting”); Joshua Stein (MMA Opinion), Ivan Trembow (Freelance); and Dave Walsh (Total MMA).

These rankings are independent of any single MMA media outlet or sanctioning body, and are published on multiple web sites.

The rankings are tabulated on a monthly basis in each of the top seven weight classes of MMA, from heavyweight to bantamweight, with fighters receiving ten points for a first-place vote, nine points for a second-place vote, and so on.

The rankings are based purely on the votes of the members of the voting panel, with nobody’s vote counting more than anybody else’s vote, and no computerized voting.

The voters are instructed to vote primarily based on fighters’ actual accomplishments in the cage/ring (the quality of opposition that they’ve actually beaten), not based on a broad, subjective perception of which fighters would theoretically win fantasy match-ups.

Special thanks to Eric Kamander, Zach Arnold, and Joshua Stein for their invaluable help with this project, and special thanks to Garrett Bailey for designing our logo.

Inactivity: Fighters who have not fought in the past 12 months are not eligible to be ranked, and will regain their eligibility the next time they fight.

Disciplinary Suspensions: Fighters who are currently serving disciplinary suspensions are not eligible to be ranked.

Changing Weight Classes: When a fighter announces that he is leaving one weight class in order to fight in another weight class, the fighter is not eligible to be ranked in the new weight class until he has his first fight in the new weight class.

Catch Weight Fights: When fights are contested at weights that are in between the limits of the various weight classes, they are considered to be in the higher weight class. The weight limits for each weight class are listed at the top of the rankings for each weight class.

June 2009 Independent World MMA Rankings

*Heavyweight Rankings (206 to 265 lbs.)
1. Fedor Emelianenko (30-1, 1 No Contest)
2. Frank Mir (12-3)
3. Josh Barnett (24-5)
4. Brock Lesnar (3-1)
5. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (31-5-1, 1 No Contest)
6. Randy Couture (16-9)
7. Alistair Overeem (29-11, 1 No Contest)
8. Shane Carwin (11-0)
9. Brett Rogers (10-0)
10. Andrei Arlovski (15-7)

Light Heavyweight Rankings (186 to 205 lbs.)
1. Lyoto Machida (15-0)
2. Rashad Evans (13-1-1)
3. Quinton Jackson (30-7)
4. Forrest Griffin (16-5)
5. Mauricio “Shogun” Rua (18-3)
6. Rich Franklin (25-4, 1 No Contest)
7. Keith Jardine (14-5-1)
8. Dan Henderson (24-7)
9. Renato “Babalu” Sobral (32-8)
10. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira (17-3)

Middleweight Rankings (171 to 185 lbs.)
1. Anderson Silva (24-4)
2. Yushin Okami 23-4)
3. Nathan Marquardt (28-8-2)
4. Demian Maia (10-0)
5. Dan Henderson (24-7)
6. Jorge Santiago (21-7)
7. Gegard Mousasi (25-2-1)
8. Robbie Lawler (16-5, 1 No Contest)
9. Vitor Belfort (18-8)
10. Thales Leites (14-2)

Welterweight Rankings (156 to 170 lbs.)
1. Georges St. Pierre (18-2)
2. Thiago Alves (16-3)
3. Jon Fitch (18-3, 1 No Contest)
4. Jake Shields (23-4-1)
5. Matt Hughes (43-7)
6. Josh Koscheck (12-4)
7. Martin Kampmann (15-2)
8. Mike Swick (14-2)
9. Carlos Condit (22-5)
10. Paulo Thiago (11-0)

Lightweight Rankings (146 to 155 lbs.)
1. B.J. Penn (13-5-1)
2. Kenny Florian (11-3)
3. Shinya Aoki (20-4, 1 No Contest)
4. Eddie Alvarez (17-2)
5. Joachim Hansen (19-7-1)
6. Tatsuya Kawajiri (24-5-2)
7. Frankie Edgar (10-1)
8. Josh Thomson (16-2)
9. Satoru Kitaoka (25-8-9)
10. Gray Maynard (7-0, 1 No Contest)

Featherweight Rankings (136 to 145 lbs.)
1. Mike Brown (22-4)
2. Urijah Faber (22-3)
3. Wagnney Fabiano (12-1)
4. Jose Aldo (15-1)
5. Hatsu Hioki (19-3-2)
6. Leonard Garcia (12-4)
7. “Lion” Takeshi Inoue (16-3)
8. Norifumi “Kid” Yamamoto (17-2)
9. Dokonjonosuke Mishima (19-6-2)
10. Raphael Assuncao (13-1)

Bantamweight Rankings (126 to 135 lbs.)
1. Miguel Torres (37-1)
2. Brian Bowles (7-0)
3. Takeya Mizugaki (11-3-2)
4. Masakatsu Ueda (9-0-2)
5. Joseph Benavidez (10-0)
6. Akitoshi Tamura (14-7-2)
7. Will Ribeiro (10-2)
8. Rani Yahya (14-4)
9. Damacio Page (11-4)
10. Manny Tapia (10-2-1)*
_
These rankings were taken from the committee 6/16/2009._

*A NOTE ON THIS THREAD: This thread will be left open for people who have questions about how the rankings are run or who want to comment on the rankings. If you guys want to discuss the rankings, start a separate thread, please. This thread will have new rankings posted on a monthly basis.*


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Awesome job and a great list of rankings.


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## Darkwraith (Jun 4, 2008)

Awesome! Thanks!


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## Evil Ira (Feb 9, 2009)

Great! One of the only few rankings to include bantamweight.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Evil Ira said:


> Great! One of the only few rankings to include bantamweight.


Yep. We've got a lot of guys with strong opinions on that division.

As the year goes on there has been internal discussion about expanding it to potentially include flyweight and women's divisions.

There's nothing concrete yet, but it'll happen at some point.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

Great job on this. Thanks to all that put work into this. :thumbsup:

Question, will there be p4p rankings along with these?


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Great stuff, I am bookmarking that list. UFC seems to own the non-Babalu light heavyweights, eh?


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

D.P. said:


> Great job on this. Thanks to all that put work into this. :thumbsup:
> 
> Question, will there be p4p rankings along with these?


I doubt it. There are some guys in the group who get really annoyed by the P4P concept, and it requires the outlining of criteria to choose based on.

We'll see, though.



dudeabides said:


> Great stuff, I am bookmarking that list. UFC seems to own the non-Babalu light heavyweights, eh?


Well, yeah. I think that'll change when Mousasi starts fighting at 205.

Then it'll be three outside of the UFC.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I am actually surprised by a couple, nothing major, 1 or 2 spots here and there. But overall I would say a very well put together list by people who are clearly not new to MMA.

Do you think you will be adding in women's MMA anytime soon, or is there just not enough to even really worry about ranking?

Also, this list almost seems to really point out that the UFC does have majority of the talent currently in MMA. Not claiming UFC > anything, just an observation.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

cdtcpl said:


> I am actually surprised by a couple, nothing major, 1 or 2 spots here and there. But overall I would say a very well put together list by people who are clearly not new to MMA.


Yeah. A very smart group of guys. Definitely a group I'm happy to role with, as many of these guys are more knowledgeable about the sport than I am.



> Do you think you will be adding in women's MMA anytime soon, or is there just not enough to even really worry about ranking?


We've talked about it. It may happen long term but nothing concrete has been laid out yet. The truth is, we don't want to rush it.

We're going to wait a few months until we're getting good attention and starting to get used to putting them together. Then we'll add it.

Also, the women's divisions haven't gotten structured enough and there aren't enough regular fights to really make it worthwhile. Hopefully, with Strikeforce doing more female fights, we'll see that change soon.



> Also, this list almost seems to really point out that the UFC does have majority of the talent currently in MMA. Not claiming UFC > anything, just an observation.


Yup, but there are also a lot of great guys outside of the UFC that are getting props in this ranking. Not in the lightheavyweight division as much, but the other four major weightclasses are pretty well mixed.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Flyweights*

Once the WEC flyweight division goes into effect are you going to start rankings with that division and the Shooto fighters?


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> Once the WEC flyweight division goes into effect are you going to start rankings with that division and the Shooto fighters?


The addition of a flyweight division has been discussed but, unfortunately, there aren't enough top flyweights in the world to really make that a credible and interesting division at this point.

If the WEC creates a division and we start to see notable flyweights come up in the division, then it's a legitimate possibility. It's always been a personal favorite weightclass for me, so it's definitely a likelihood, it's just a matter of timeframe.

We've also discussed (as I mentioned already) the addition of a women's division. Both of those things are not going to happen immediately, but could very well be a part of the rankings over the course of the next 8-12 months (there are a few different time tables being discussed, and 12 months is the longest right now).


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

I think in the HW div- Barnett should be higher than Mir and Randy should be #8 behind Nogeira and Carwin. LHW Rashad should be ranked behind Quinton and Shogun. MWMarquart over okami and def Kos over Hughes, FW Jose Aldo over Uriah Faber.But thats just my opnion.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

jcal said:


> I think in the HW div- Barnett should be higher than Mir and Randy should be #8 behind Nogeira and Carwin. LHW Rashad should be ranked behind Quinton and Shogun. MWMarquart over okami and def Kos over Hughes, FW Jose Aldo over Uriah Faber.But thats just my opnion.


Actually, I agree with you about Barnett, Rashad, Hughes and Aldo (Okami has a win over Anderson, and a lot of people forget it was a DQ, so I see why that happened).

That said, when you let people cast their own ballots, sometimes you don't agree with stuff. Still, the fact that these are pretty close to what a lot of people want (one or two differences in all weightclasses), speaks pretty well of the panel, I think.

There are some individual biases (I really don't like Hughes or Rashad, for instance), but those tend to be overridden by the group mindset, and we end up with a pretty substantial set of numbers.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Great list, i just dont like Franklin being above Hendo and Babalu on the lhw. Great job though.


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## mmawrestler (May 18, 2008)

Those are pretty solis rankings.
Is there gunna be a p4p?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I only have one issue with them and this is one I have with every rankings list Ive seen, IronMan how do you justify Overeem being on the list and not Jeff Monson? Monson's recent wins in MMA are much better than any of Overeem's wins and he is riding a longer winning streak (6 fights) and his most recent loss was a competitive fight against your #3 HW, on the other hand Overeem is only on a one fight win streak, (4 fights if you dont count his no contest) and his last loss was to the same guy Monson just beat. Monson also has a better overall record at 30-8 than Overeem at 29-11. I just dont get why Overeem gets so much love?


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Looking at that list, I realize that I would really like to see Aoki vs. Florian. That fight would be absolutely sick imo. Of course, Aoki vs. Penn would be as well.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

joshua7789 said:


> Great list, i just dont like Franklin being above Hendo and Babalu on the lhw. Great job though.


I agree with you also. But was happy to at least see Babalu on the list


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Toxic said:


> I only have one issue with them and this is one I have with every rankings list Ive seen, IronMan how do you justify Overeem being on the list and not Jeff Monson? Monson's recent wins in MMA are much better than any of Overeem's wins and he is riding a longer winning streak (6 fights) and his most recent loss was a competitive fight against your #3 HW, on the other hand Overeem is only on a one fight win streak, (4 fights if you dont count his no contest) and his last loss was to the same guy Monson just beat. Monson also has a better overall record at 30-8 than Overeem at 29-11. I just dont get why Overeem gets so much love?


Good points.

Also, I like the rankings, pretty solid, I just don't agree with a select few of them, such as Rashad over Rampage.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Sobral's Rank*

Can't argue with you there. Sobral is just such an underrated fighter, especially in that stacked division!


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Toxic said:


> I only have one issue with them and this is one I have with every rankings list Ive seen, IronMan how do you justify Overeem being on the list and not Jeff Monson? Monson's recent wins in MMA are much better than any of Overeem's wins and he is riding a longer winning streak (6 fights) and his most recent loss was a competitive fight against your #3 HW, on the other hand Overeem is only on a one fight win streak, (4 fights if you dont count his no contest) and his last loss was to the same guy Monson just beat. Monson also has a better overall record at 30-8 than Overeem at 29-11. I just dont get why Overeem gets so much love?


Overeem's an organizational champ, which is why I think he gets a lot of love from people. I don't necessarily agree with it, but there are thirteen other guys voting, too, and apparently they don't agree with me.

Jeff has two losses that are still in a lot of people's minds. The losses to Barnett and Rizzo are fairly recent, and the fact that Rizzo stopped him overlooks him.

Also, a lot of people think he lost the Roy Nelson fight.

Of course, my job isn't to defend the rankings, but I think Monson staying off the top ten is defensible.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I can understand the viewpoint but for me personally I think Overeem is overated, even being a promotional champion when he has yet to make a single title defense depite being champion for over a year and a half the effect it should have is neglible at best. Everyone has there own opinion but thats mine.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Interim Title*

Well in all honesty even though I'm an Overeem fan, I think Strikeforce should've at least created an Interim title by now. It's the same with Cung Le, a guy needs to defend his belt or create an interim title so the guy taking time off can actually try to rightfully claim his title when he returns!


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Welterweight Rankings (156 to 170 lbs.)
1. Georges St. Pierre (18-2)
2. Thiago Alves (16-3)
3. Jon Fitch (18-3, 1 No Contest)
4. Jake Shields (23-4-1)
5. Matt Hughes (43-7)
6. Josh Koscheck (12-4)
7. Martin Kampmann (15-2)
8. Mike Swick (14-2)
9. Carlos Condit (22-5)
*10. Paulo Thiago (11-0)*


wait what? really? besides this, great rankings :thumb02:


wait why isnt tim sylvia in the top 10? hmm there was something?

oh right


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

xeberus said:


> Welterweight Rankings (156 to 170 lbs.)
> 1. Georges St. Pierre (18-2)
> 2. Thiago Alves (16-3)
> 3. Jon Fitch (18-3, 1 No Contest)
> ...


Who would you rather have there? Matt Serra? A guy who's 2-3 as a welterweight, one of those wins coming as a controversial decision over a guy who's not even close to top ten.

Anyway, I didn't vote for Thiago, but I know why he's there. The guy's undefeated and just posted a KO of one of the best welterweights in the sport, a guy who hasn't be finished since 2005, despite bouts with the #1 and #2 guys in the division.

Paulo Thiago did what Alves and St. Pierre couldn't. That's why he'll be there. If he beats Fitch, you can be damn sure he'll be on the brink of the top five. If he knocks Fitch out, he'll definitely be right in the ranks.

And, yeah, voting took place immediately after Sylvia got KO'd by Mercer. So no shocker there.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Sweet man, thanks!


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Awesome rankings and post, cheers Ironman!

P.s lolol Timba gif.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Sylvia replay*

That is a pretty sick replay! Was that a non-televised event cause I thought people were able to get in on PPV?


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## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

great rankings, but i wonder what's up with Franklin so high at LHW.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Chileandude said:


> great rankings, but i wonder what's up with Franklin so high at LHW.


Keep in mind, these rankings were taken and released almost immediately after UFC 99. Franklin's high profile win over Wanderlei may have a lot to do with it.


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## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

IronMan said:


> Keep in mind, these rankings were taken and released almost immediately after UFC 99. Franklin's high profile win over Wanderlei may have a lot to do with it.


Wasn't that fight at 195 though?


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Chileandude said:


> Wasn't that fight at 195 though?


Yeah, so it really doesnt prove much. And that fight could have went either way.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Diego Sanchez isn't even in the top ten lightweights? After destroying Guida and beating Joe S, and after what he accomplished in WW? Jeez no respect.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Soakked said:


> Diego Sanchez isn't even in the top ten lightweights? After destroying Guida and beating Joe S, and after what he accomplished in WW? Jeez no repect.


What? Where is he? WTF?


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Chileandude said:


> Wasn't that fight at 195 though?


Part of the rules are that a fight at a catchweight will be applied to the weight class immediately above.



Soakked said:


> Diego Sanchez isn't even in the top ten lightweights? After destroying Guida and beating Joe S, and after what he accomplished in WW? Jeez no respect.


These rankings were taken before the bout with Guida. Please check the date before making comments like this.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

IronMan said:


> Part of the rules are that a fight at a catchweight will be applied to the weight class immediately above.
> Thanks for that info. Didnt know that
> 
> 
> These rankings were taken before the bout with Guida. Please check the date before making comments like this.


 Ironman dont you think he should be ranked even if he didnt fight guida yet?


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Sanchez*

I have to agree that Sanchez should be ranked!


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

jcal said:


> Ironman dont you think he should be ranked even if he didnt fight guida yet?


I think he's low top ten, but, like I said, there are thirteen (now fourteen) other guys voting.

That said, I also think that pretty much everybody on that list (with the exceptions of, maybe, Josh Thomson and Frankie Edgar) should be ahead of him.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Frankie Edgar*

Why is Edgar on the list in the first place?


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> Why is Edgar on the list in the first place?


Because he beat Sean Sherk. But Gray Maynard should be listed higher, because Gray beat him soundly.

Those are just my opinions, though.


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## Evil Ira (Feb 9, 2009)

IronMan said:


> Because he beat Sean Sherk. But Gray Maynard should be listed higher, because Gray beat him soundly.
> 
> Those are just my opinions, though.


But keep in mind that this was the only loss on his record, and he has got notable wins over Spencer Fisher, Tyson Griffin, and Sean Sherk.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Evil Ira said:


> But keep in mind that this was the only loss on his record, and he has got notable wins over Spencer Fisher, Tyson Griffin, and Sean Sherk.


Sure, but it's not as though Maynard has underperformed in the Octagon. This is a guy who doesn't have a loss and has wins over Rich Clementi (who's destroyed a lot of solid prospects) and Jim Miller (who's considered a top prospect by a lot of people) and Edgar.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Maynard's Promotion*

Who is Maynard fighting for at the moment anyways? Was it Affliction, Strikeforce, a Japanese promotion or another promotion?


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> Who is Maynard fighting for at the moment anyways? Was it Affliction, Strikeforce, a Japanese promotion or another promotion?


He's still under contract with the UFC.

Word on the street is that he'll get to beat the crap out of Roger Huerta next. I can't wait.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Maynard VS Huerta*

Oh, right he's due up against Huerta next!


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

I've always pulled for Huerta, but I really see Maynard destroying him here.


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## Evil Ira (Feb 9, 2009)

I'm hoping for another double K.O.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Huerta's Fighting Style*

Huerta just has a fighting style that goes for him in most fights, the KenFlo fight being an exception. In his fight with Guida is a prime example cause Guida was winning that fight in the 3rd and got submitted. He just fights hard until the fight is over!


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

I don't agree with a position of Mir above Barnett, Evans above Jackson and Franklin above Henderson.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

IronMan said:


> Part of the rules are that a fight at a catchweight will be applied to the weight class immediately above.
> 
> 
> 
> These rankings were taken before the bout with Guida. Please check the date before making comments like this.


I missed that sorry. Usually when rankings go up the assumption is that they are as current as possible. Regardless whether it was before the the fight, Diego IMO should at least be ranked. He has way too much talent and showed in the Stevenson fight that he can beat top level competition. His only two losses were to top ranked(at the time) WW's. I just don't see how some on the list are ranked higher in all honesty.

I do understand that technically it isn't what a fighter does/did at a different weight class, only their current. Maybe one fight isn't sufficant enough to be ranked.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Updated Rankings*

The rankings should be updated weekly on other websites!


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> The rankings should be updated weekly on other websites!


It takes two days to collect polling data from the panel and another two/three days to do the calculations. It'd be more than a full time job to publish the rankings every week, and it's simply not possible.

There will be data collected for the July rankings following UFC 100, and the rankings should be posted afterwards.

We've also set a date for the August publication, but that's a ways off.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Good*

Great, at least we know you guys are somewhat on your game!


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

*You guys are on your game*

You guys are on your game!


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Not Exactly*

If they were completely on their game they would be putting out rankings every week, not every month!


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> If they were completely on their game they would be putting out rankings every week, not every month!


I've already explained why this is ridiculous.

It's also overkill.

It's not as though there's a significant event every week. The next few months, the collections of rankings coincide with the occurrence of major MMA fights.

The data collection for the July Rankings follows UFC 100.

The data collection for the August Rankings will follow Strikeforce on August 15th, and will be heavily influenced by Affliction III.

It doesn't make sense to do rankings every week when the only top ten guys are fighting on one or two cards in any given months.

Why gather rankings after a week where there have been no events?


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Updates*

Well you should at least update them after a top ten fighter competes! The weeks following the Strikeforce and Adrenaline fightcards were updated two weeks in a row!


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> Well you should at least update them after a top ten fighter competes! The weeks following the Strikeforce and Adrenaline fightcards were updated two weeks in a row!


What the hell does that mean? The second sentence is completely incomprehensible, not to mention Strikeforce hasn't had an event with an even debatable top ten fighter since we released these rankings.

Plenty of sites update their rankings on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. They aren't polling fifteen MMA journalists who write constantly. Getting those guys to send in their votes once a month is enough of a hassle for all of them and for those of us tabulating (and there are multiple tabulators).


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## Evil Ira (Feb 9, 2009)

*I disagree.*



kantowrestler said:


> If they were completely on their game they would be putting out rankings every week, not every month!


Your logic is flawed.


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## AceofSpades187 (Apr 18, 2009)

i think its better to have it every month and not every week


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Monthly Events*

Well major events take place every month so there are top ten fighters fighting every month!


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

IronMan said:


> It takes two days to collect polling data from the panel and another two/three days to do the calculations. It'd be more than a full time job to publish the rankings every week, and it's simply not possible.
> 
> There will be data collected for the July rankings following UFC 100, and the rankings should be posted afterwards.
> 
> We've also set a date for the August publication, but that's a ways off.


Thanks for the list anyway, its cool you posted the rankings for us in the first place


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

jcal said:


> Thanks for the list anyway, its cool you posted the rankings for us in the first place


For sure, man.

I'm going to post the July rankings on here too, probably in this thread.

That's a question I've been debating. Should I just start and lock a single thread and keep it up on the board?

I dunno. I've gone back and forth on the issue.

Anyway, there'll be July rankings pretty soon, and they'll take into account the event this weekend.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Ranking Predictions*

I wonder how the rankings for this month will turn out. We'll find out after this Saturday won't we?


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## cdnbaron (Jan 17, 2007)

Just popped on here for the first time in a while to comment on these rankings. The panel that you've put together is fantastic, how did you manage that in the first place?

HW
I'm in the camp that still thinks Barnett should be #2 at HW. In the past year and a half he's beaten Monson (who does have a case as a top 10 guy), Rizzo and Yvel, which are all pretty good wins. Mir on the other hand has beaten Nog (which is obviously the best win from either guy) and Lesnar (who wasn't even on the rankings radar at the time). Josh's record just stands out more.

LHW
I'm not sure I agree with the concept that a catchweight bout should count in the weight class above... but even with those being the rules, is LHW really so volatile that with a win over a low top 10 like Wandy, that Franklin vaults up to 6th? I personally don't even see him in the top 10 at this point, but that's because I don't consider his win at 99 to be a LHW win, so I can understand the discrepancy there.
As for Rashad being ahead of Rampage, I could care less.

MW
I never think Jorge Santiago gets enough love, but that'll change after Affliction 3 (if he has truly kicked that nasty habit of getting brutally KO'd).
Maia is a little too high for my liking as his best win is over top 15ish Chael Sonnen, but hardcore fans seem to love Maia unconditionally.
Why Mousasi is even ranked is beyond me when he stated long ago that he no longer intends to compete at MW, and your rules state that makes a fighter ineligible for voting at that weight class. Plus, he's fought at HW since then (but that's something easily remedied).
Leites has really benefitted from that title shot, because I never remember seeing him in top 10s before it was announced, and now he seems to continually hang around.

WW
Hughes just continues to slide up the rankings, and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it. Very weird situation because he benefits from everyone else in the division (Kos, Condit, Karo, etc) losing, without putting up any quality wins of his own.
Rather than Paulo Thiago at 10 due to awkward stand up and a very confused looking uppercut, I'd prefer to see someone who has actually strung together good performances against (somewhat) quality opposition. My nominee, Brock Larson.

LW
I don't get the Kenny Florian hype. Never have, never will. His wins don't make him the 2nd best LW in the world, even if Aoki did just lose to a top 20ish WW. However, it always seems to happen that fighters become overvalues right before title shots (re: Leites).
I really like the LW rankings other than that point though, which is weird because it's been so hard to rank over the past couple years.

FW
Faber's name recognition doesn't warrant him still being the #2 FW in the world. I think Wags has surpassed him pretty easily at this point (and had before the second Brown fight, in all honesty).
I love Kid, but I can't agree with him being ranked in any way, shape, or form. Personally, I'd sneak Sandro in at 9 or 10 instead of him.
No love for Bibs either. Dude's only career losses have been to Kid and Faber in his 2nd and 3rd fights, and now he has a win over Imanari. You guys couldn't find it in your heart to slide him into the top 10?

BW
I'm going to bring up the catchweight thing again due to the DREAM FWGP. It's being contested at 138, so I find it very hard to believe that anyone in that tournament couldn't make 135 if they needed to, so I really think it's results should impact the BW division more than the FW division.
I think this mostly effects Joe Warren, who I have in my top 10 already (wins over Chase and Kid are more than enough in my book).
I find it hard to rank Ribeiro given his current circumstances.
This is just my man-love for Japanese prospects, but I have Ogikubo at #10, even though he absolutely doesn't belong there. I'm allowed one overtly biased ranking, and that's my one.

It may seem like I'm griping through all of that, but I really like the rankings. Interested to see how things play out after 100.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

cdnbaron said:


> Just popped on here for the first time in a while to comment on these rankings. The panel that you've put together is fantastic, how did you manage that in the first place?


Ivan Trembow, who started the panel, is a very well respected guy, and he basically came to people with the idea and everyone joined in.

There were a few instances where we had to clear it with various editors (because some writers have exclusivity issues), but we didn't have any issues.

It's a pretty solid group of MMA writers.


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## Luka99 (Jul 11, 2009)

I have created some application and database with scoring system. 
It allows me to create diagrams like this one for HW.










I would like you to tel me what do you think?


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## Luka99 (Jul 11, 2009)

Here is another one. This is for BW.


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## Luka99 (Jul 11, 2009)

Y Axis is Current Score (nobody has ever reached 800 points).
X Axis is a Cut Off Date (yyyy-mm).

Score is based on fights, opponents, events, fight-end effectiveness, longevity, championship fights, win streak, and several other components.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Luka99 said:


> Y Axis is Current Score (nobody has ever reached 800 points).
> X Axis is a Cut Off Date (yyyy-mm).
> 
> Score is based on fights, opponents, events, fight-end effectiveness, longevity, championship fights, win streak, and several other components.


Ummm... and these scores are calculated how?

Without substantial criterion, this looks like subjective, trivial opinion plotted on a graph.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

Very good list, It is very accurate to me.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

IronMan said:


> Ummm... and these scores are calculated how?
> 
> Without substantial criterion, this looks like subjective, trivial opinion plotted on a graph.


oh come on... it is in graph form. It must be scientifically done


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## Luka99 (Jul 11, 2009)

IronMan said:


> Ummm... and these scores are calculated how?
> 
> Without substantial criterion, this looks like subjective, trivial opinion plotted on a graph.


I have MMA database and application with algorithms that are putting scores on various MMA related entities.

Same set of formulas is applied to 5,000+ fighter, so no bias.

Here is high level formula that is used to calculate Current Score:
Curr_Score = AllTime_Score + 2Year_Score 
+ PointsLastFight + PointsLast2Fight*85% + PointsLast3Fight*70% 
- Inactivity_Penalty + Current_Bonus

There is a website where all reports are published, but I didn't want to be accused of spaming.

If you want I can give you that website so that you can check the numbers behind this.
There is no advertising or selling on that site. Pure MMA related data.


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## Luka99 (Jul 11, 2009)

And my rankings are for all the fighters, not just top 10 or top 100.

Here is the ranking for the UFC 100 fighters.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Luka99 said:


> I have MMA database and application with algorithms that are putting scores on various MMA related entities.
> 
> Same set of formulas is applied to 5,000+ fighter, so no bias.
> 
> ...


Again, all you've done is create more questions (and more skepticism), by presenting variables instead of answering the question.

I'll pose this even more simply.

What are the criterion for assigning points? (there are a lot more questions that your post raises, but this is the most important and most problematic one)

You're welcome to link a website, if it's actually a data center related to your post.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*What?*

How did we get onto this conversation?


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## Luka99 (Jul 11, 2009)

IronMan said:


> Again, all you've done is create more questions (and more skepticism), by presenting variables instead of answering the question.
> 
> I'll pose this even more simply.
> 
> ...


Good morning.
Here is the link to this website. 

http://www.ScorecardMMA.com

Again, no advertising or selling on that site.



http://scorecardmma.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=34&Itemid=76


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Luka99 said:


> Good morning.
> Here is the link to this website.
> 
> http://www.ScorecardMMA.com
> ...


Yeah, that link's fine, but I can't find an explanation for point assignment, and you didn't answer the question.


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## Luka99 (Jul 11, 2009)

IronMan said:


> Yeah, that link's fine, but I can't find an explanation for point assignment, and you didn't answer the question.


Sorry that I didn't elaborate more, but I had my daughters swimming competition whole morning (she qualified for tomorrows finals in backstroke and breaststroke).
Explanation is coming in the next post.


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## Luka99 (Jul 11, 2009)

IronMan said:


> Yeah, that link's fine, but I can't find an explanation for point assignment, and you didn't answer the question.


We are creating two main scores for all fighters.
1. All time score (career, lifetime)
2. Current Score

Current score is mostly used for all the reports and that is what people are looking for. All time score is one of the components that go into Current Score.

All time score (career, lifetime) is calculated using following parameters:
1. All time Win/Lose percentage. This is not just a simple division of W/L. It value increases with number of fights.
2. Opponents Rating. Aside from using average opponent rating, this parameter is also calculated by using extra points for wins against better opponents and for fighting against heavier fighters.
3. Event Level. Fighters that were fighting only on the smaller promotions will not have many points awarded here. They might be undefeated, but that doesn't give much weight in the low level Events.
4. Additional parameters (like quality of wins, longevity and overall achievement).

This Ranking involves all fighters that ever fought including those that are no longer active.

Current Score includes All Time Score, but also adds some other elements:
1. All Time Career Score of the Fighter (explained in All Time Career article).
2. Score for the Fighter in the last two years (actually that is exactly 800 days).
3. Points from the last 3 fights (with the last one having the highest value).
4. Additional points (for being current champion, for performance and subtraction for inactivity).



Examples of Current Score values can be found on:

http://scorecardmma.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52:-current-rankings-top-25-pound-for-pound&catid=34:current-fighter-rankings&Itemid=67

Here is a high level formula that is used to calculate Current Score:
Curr_Score = AllTime_Score + 2Year_Score
+ PointsLastFight + PointsLast2Fight*85% + PointsLast3Fight*70%
- Inactivity_Penalty + Current_Bonus

2Year_Score is score for the fights in the last two years (actually exactly 800 days).

PointsLastFight are points given for the last fight.
PointsLastFight = OpponentAllTimeRating + OppCurrRating + OppCtgryDiff + MethodEnd

Opponent Rating means you will get more points for the last fight if your opponent is currently ranked higher or is more experienced (AllTime).

OppCtgryDiff is for case when somebody goes up in category (just for that fight) gets additional points.
You get less points if you fight lighter fighter.
For example, Fedor (HW) was fighting Lindland (MW) and he had some points deducted for that fight (not too much).

PointsLast2Fight*85% means that fight before last fight has 15% point reduction. 
That is because for the current score it is more important what you did in the last fight then in one before and one before.

Current Bonus is for current Champions (for example UFC champion gets 15 points, DREAM tournament winner gets 10 or 5 points).

If somebody is not active for a while, then he starts slipping down on the Current Rankings,
but on the All Time Ranking stays the same.
When someone is not fighting for two years (800 days), then it is removed from the Current Rankings.




Yes I know, it is a long read.

But you cannot solve a complex problem like this with a simple solution. We have about 120 formulas that are used to calculate different parameters scores and rankings.

End it is not just fighters, but we have other things (like promotions, events, payroll) which we are still working on. 

Once you know how it works it is not that complicated.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*???*

I'm really, really confused!


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## Luka99 (Jul 11, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> I'm really, really confused!


Please do ask questions!
And how do we get those nick names (Featherweight and MMA Fanatic)?
I am MMA Fanatic, but I didn't put that there.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

Luka99 said:


> Please do ask questions!
> And how do we get those nick names (Featherweight and MMA Fanatic)?
> I am MMA Fanatic, but I didn't put that there.


It depends on number of posts you have. Or if you're a VIP member, you can request a custom one. Or if an admin wants to play a prank on you they'll put one declaring your gay pride.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

D.P. said:


> It depends on number of posts you have. Or if you're a VIP member, you can request a custom one. Or if an admin wants to play a prank on you they'll put one declaring your gay pride.


is that what happenend to you? LMAO:thumbsup:


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Nicknames*

I'm just letting it do it by itself!


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## Luka99 (Jul 11, 2009)

IronMan said:


> Yeah, that link's fine, but I can't find an explanation for point assignment, and you didn't answer the question.


IronMan, I posted a detailed explanation on the previous page.
Let me know if you have additional questions.
BTW, I have all the Rankings and Scores updated after UFC 100.
http://scorecardmma.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=34&Itemid=76


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*This page*

Dude, just post the rankings on this page!


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## Luka99 (Jul 11, 2009)

IronMan said:


> Yeah, that link's fine, but I can't find an explanation for point assignment, and you didn't answer the question.





kantowrestler said:


> Dude, just post the rankings on this page!


There are too many different rankings there:
Current Rankings Top 25 - Pound-for-Pound
Current Rankings Top 25 - Heavyweight
Current Rankings Top 25 - Light Heavyweight
Current Rankings Top 25 - Middleweight
Current Rankings Top 25 - Welterweight
Current Rankings Top 25 - Lightweight 
Current Rankings Top 25 - Featherweight 
Current Rankings Top 25 - Bantamweight 
Current Rankings Top 25 - Flyweight 
Career Score - All Time Top 30 - Pound-for-Pound 
Career Score - All Time Top 30 - Heavyweight
Career Score - All Time Top 30 - Light Heavyweight
Career Score - All Time Top 30 - Middleweight 
Career Score - All Time Top 30 - Welterweight 
Career Score - All Time Top 30 - Lightweight 
Career Score - All Time Top 30 - Featherweight 
Career Score - All Time Top 30 - Bantamweight 
Career Score - All Time Top 30 - Flyweight 
UFC Top 15 - All

Which one do you want?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Listen this is a thread for the Independent World MMA Rankings it even says so in the title and you guys are way off topic, this thread has nothing to do with any graphs nor should it, stay on topic.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Toxic said:


> Listen this is a thread for the Independent World MMA Rankings it even says so in the title and you guys are way off topic, this thread has nothing to do with any graphs nor should it, stay on topic.


It's ok.

I've decided I just want to create a new thread for each month, so there can be discussions of the individual rankings. (those will be up by the end of the week)

Clearly the guy didn't read the thread, and that's whatever. I'm just gonna let it die after this bit, so no worries.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*So what next?*

So when are the next rankings coming out on here?


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> So when are the next rankings coming out on here?


I could repeat myself, since I've said it about three or four dozen times on different outlets, or you could just read the post right above yours.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*August*

So after a card like UFC 100, we have to wait for next month?


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> So after a card like UFC 100, we have to wait for next month?


Wow, you're really pretty slow.



> I've decided I just want to create a new thread for each month, so there can be discussions of the individual rankings. *(those will be up by the end of the week)*


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Conversation*

Well I've lost track of the thread conversation!


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