# Is doing this over your beaten opponent right ?



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

Re edit : the issue was the proximity to a fallen opponent and the lack of respect either for them or the fact they had been separated by a referee. thanking god is one thing. doing it on your knees right over some guy you just beat, thats something else. 

Do not comment on this if you do not read and understand this. 


its always in the centre of the ring and usually over the guy who is lying there fucked up after being beaten. 

lets say its a muslim fighter who does a dozen allah akbars over an american he ktfo.

still feel the same about it?

fair enough? or just bad taste. 

it looks like human sacrifice. 

its not something the other guy has any choice in. 

is it fair (when the other guy is forced to be part of the relationship like on saturday), or should it be stamped out of MMA.


----------



## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

I personally find it pretty distasteful, personal opinion though and I don't think it's a huge deal.


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

its stupid

IF there is a god why would you simply assume hes helping you win as if you're better than the other fighter? yeah in gods eyes your more important than him...:sarcastic12:

i think they have the right to do whatever they want, if they want to thank santa claws why stop them?

as long as they dont disrespect any1 they have the right to be as stupid as they want:thumb02:


----------



## Rocco1016 (Oct 13, 2010)

ACTAFOOL said:


> its stupid
> 
> IF there is a god why would you simply assume hes helping you win as if you're better than the other fighter? yeah in gods eyes your more important than him...:sarcastic12:
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more.


----------



## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

lmao theres fighters shooting others when they have been KOED, theres others digging graves, this is simply thanking god, I dont know whats wrong with that? or perhaps praying altogether shouldnt be allowed in the cage cuz then it makes it unfair for the other guy LOL


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

They never credit god when they lose though, do they? Funny that.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> They never credit god when they lose though, do they? Funny that.


nah its always busted ribs when that happens.


----------



## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

xRoxaz said:


> lmao theres fighters shooting others when they have been KOED, theres others digging graves, this is simply thanking god, I dont know whats wrong with that?


because guns can be real?


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Dude's thanking his God in his way. It's no different than a white Catholic falling to his knees, putting his hands together in prayer after a victory, and thanking the 'Lord' above. I'm a Buddhist in training, so if I want to celebrate by crossing my legs, placing my hands together, and levitating, what harm is it causing to anyone else? Prayer is prayer, and thanks is thanks, no matter which way you slice it.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> They never credit god when they lose though, do they? Funny that.


Jon Jones.


----------



## Foose (Feb 19, 2008)

Wow . . . a lot of God hate on this board.

If a fighter wishes to thank God for the victory, that is his personal choice to do so. For the American's, it's their constitutional right to do so.

As far as being pissed about seeing it or saying this sh** has no place in this sport . . . I say get over it. You don't have to agree with a fighter's choice to thank God, but you should respect it. If they have a personal relationship with God and wish to thank him for the victory, let them. Who is it hurting? That is between them and God. It has nothing to do with the opponent (or in this case the viewer) or their religious preference. That is a personal relationship they wish to acknowledge during their moment of victory. 

I have debated this with others before. I have never understood why so many non-christians get so upset when it comes to someone else thanking God. Does it hurt you physically? Does it hurt you mentally? Or is just the simple fact it annoys you? My guess is that it just annoys you. GET OVER IT! I personally can't stand it when fighters start thanking their coaches and sponsors after a fight instead of answering the actual question they were asked. But, if they have to throw their coaches and sponsor's names out there . . . meh . . . I'll just mute the TV or just ignore it.

The bottom line is this. If a fighter puts his heart and sole into training, then leaves everything he has in the cage to entertain us . . . the fans . . . I say let them thank who they want. If they want to thank their 98 year old grandmother who has one leg in the nursing home, I say who cares!?!?!?!?! If it pissed you off, get over it! I'm sorry it annoys you but criticizing one's personal choice to thank who they want is just retarded.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Foose said:


> Wow . . . a lot of God hate on this board.
> 
> If a fighter wishes to thank God for the victory, that is his personal choice to do so. For the American's, it's their constitutional right to do so.
> 
> ...


Good post dude. +rep.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Dude's thanking his God in his way. It's no different than a white Catholic falling to his knees, putting his hands together in prayer after a victory, and thanking the 'Lord' above. I'm a Buddhist in training, so if I want to celebrate by crossing my legs, placing my hands together, and levitating, what harm is it causing to anyone else? Prayer is prayer, and thanks is thanks, no matter which way you slice it.


the point is that you are implicitly involving the other guy in your ritual. 

it would be wrong if it was OCD and its still fucked up if its religion. 

its the proximity and relationship to the beaten opponent that irk's not the life choice.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

Foose said:


> Wow . . . a lot of God hate on this board.
> 
> If a fighter wishes to thank God for the victory, that is his personal choice to do so. For the American's, it's their constitutional right to do so.
> 
> ...


gtfoh. i got put on red rep just for making this thread. 

the hate my friend is from the zealots. 

please read the post. 

the issue is doing it over your opponent as on saturday. 

its not the fact you believe in a mystical entity that created everything and gifted you a win. 

does spitting on someone hurt them physically?

does wiping your arse on their prayer book hurt them?

theres a difference between being discrete about your faith/beliefs and lording it over a vanquished opponent. 

why is arrogance suddenly not arrogance when its religious arrogance?


----------



## Foose (Feb 19, 2008)

VincePierce said:


> gtfoh. i got put on red rep just for making this thread.
> 
> the hate my friend is from the zealots.
> 
> ...


No red from me . . . I actually gave you a positve.

There again, it's a personal choice. If he would have spit on his opponent, then that is a case worth arguing. They insulted their opponent by physically demeaning them with the spit. In this case, the praise, or thanks to God, is not directed at the opponent it is directed to the God they are thanking. The proximity of where he is thanking God is irrelevant. 

Somebody else said it, but I'll repeat it. Other fighters dig graves, shoot the downed opponent or yell obscenities at their opponents. This to me, is much more demeaning than someone point to God or folding their hands in thanks. The action of thanking God is not directed to the opponent and is not intended to disgrace or offend the opponent. Whereas giving someone the bird or yelling at them when they are on the ground is in fact directed to the losing fighter.

The offense is in the intention behind the gesture . . . not the gesture itself. In the case of thanking God . . . you can't win an argument that a winning fighter does that to disrespect his opponent. That's not valid at all.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I don't much care for the celebrations right in the faces of the guy you just beat religious or otherwise. The octagon is huge these guys could go do their little mime routines away from their opponent if they wanted. They are just douches taunting the guy they just beat.


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Jon Jones.


As if pulling up a single example proves anything. Bones didnt lose. He didnt get beaten up. He got DQ'd. The simple facts are you for every 1000 fighters who thank god when they win, you might find one that says their loss was gods will. This kind of selective religion is bullshit and not sincere.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

Foose said:


> No red from me . . . I actually gave you a positve.
> 
> There again, it's a personal choice. If he would have spit on his opponent, then that is a case worth arguing. They insulted their opponent by physically demeaning them with the spit. In this case, the praise, or thanks to God, is not directed at the opponent it is directed to the God they are thanking. The proximity of where he is thanking God is irrelevant.
> 
> ...


you make a good argument so il make my own personal opinion clear.

i dont impose my faith on others. the idea of getting on my knees right over someone who is lying there beat and rather than offering them a hand, offering them to god as a sacrifice, is the atithesis of the values i was raised with. 

taking the piss out of them is neither here nor there, what happened on saturday was far closer to actually pissing on them than taking the piss. 

it just seems creepy. 

i do have faith. 

just obviously a slightly different faith than you. 

what im not about to do is knock you the **** out and then get on my knees where you lay and herald my faith over your broken body. 

that just aint my style. 

it would seem a harrassment of a fallen opponent after the end of hostilities to do so.


----------



## Rocco1016 (Oct 13, 2010)

VincePierce said:


> gtfoh. i got put on red rep just for making this thread.
> 
> the hate my friend is from the zealots.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I was confused for a moment and got lost in the other posts. Now that I understand the post, if they did it OVER their opponent, it's good grounds for a bitch slap in my opinion.


----------



## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

VincePierce said:


> you make a good argument so il make my own personal opinion clear.
> 
> i dont impose my faith on others. the idea of getting on my knees right over someone who is lying there beat and rather than offering them a hand, offering them to god as a sacrifice, is the atithesis of the values i was raised with.
> 
> ...


Im curious as to what fight your talking about perhaps that would help understand what your trying to suggest?


----------



## Foose (Feb 19, 2008)

VincePierce said:


> you make a good argument so il make my own personal opinion clear.
> 
> i dont impose my faith on others. the idea of getting on my knees right over someone who is lying there beat and rather than offering them a hand, offering them to god as a sacrifice, is the atithesis of the values i was raised with.
> 
> ...


I can see (and respect) your point of view when stated this way. You make a valid point as well. If he did that, with the intentions you mention here, then yeah I disagree with his actions as well. Unfortunately we will never know his intentions.

As far as the rest . . . we can agree to disagree!! No harm no foul!!:tongue01:


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

xRoxaz said:


> Im curious as to what fight your talking about perhaps that would help understand what your trying to suggest?


fair enough. ive seen silva do it a few times altho i expect he is genuine. 

it dont chime well with his arrogance in other times over his opponent tho. 

no. on saturday it was the lightweight bout: Edson Barboza vs. Mike Lullo

Barboza defeated Lullo via TKO (leg kicks) at 0:26 of round 3.

the guy could hardly stand up. i would have offered him a hand. it was obvious lullo was happy to congratulate the victor unlike others on saturday. but no. barboza said his little prayer in lullos face and then walked off. 

there is a kind of arrogance that goes with this behavior. playing the religion card is neither here nor there. 

it looked ugly cos it fuckin was. 

if it had been a muslim fighter over an american we wouldnt have liked it. 

then again thats a religion that believes in humility whatever else you can say against it so i doubt wed see that happen.


----------



## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

VincePierce said:


> fair enough. ive seen silva do it a few times altho i expect he is genuine.
> 
> it dont chime well with his arrogance in other times over his opponent tho.
> 
> ...


Yeah I see what you mean now, and your right if it was a muslim fighter that wouldn't have gone down easy lol.

just like if Rampage and Machida had switched roles in their fight( doing exactly what the other fighter did), their would be more boos against Machida and Dana still crediting Rampage.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

Foose said:


> I can see (and respect) your point of view when stated this way. You make a valid point as well. If he did that, with the intentions you mention here, then yeah I disagree with his actions as well. Unfortunately we will never know his intentions.
> 
> As far as the rest . . . we can agree to disagree!! No harm no foul!!:tongue01:


yeh man. avoid the polemics i say. we all have faith in one thing or another and we all use our critical faculties too. 

its not about the black and white , us v them group wars. 

it is a personal opinion but i just didnt like it because 1 its a ritual and 2 i feel in certain ways it is involuntarily involving a beaten opponent. 

if anything after a fight the ref should separate on pain of DQ. 

when the man is standing then do your rain dance. 

the example of straight up piss taking dont involve someone getting on his knees and in the face of an opponent. the referee would rightly stop this. 

there is a degree of separation even in the worst culprits of after fight piss taking. 

tank abbot might have mocked a seizure but he didnt go down on his knees next to the guy and do it. if he did ... it wouldnt have ended well. 

my biggest issue is the fact you are involving the other guy against his will in your ritual. the rest is between you and god/the devil.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I feel like it is distasteful and disrespectful to his opponent, but its something I feel they should be allowed to do. Ultimately he should have the right to practice his superstition when it doesn't directly affect anyone negatively.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

xeberus said:


> I feel like it is distasteful and disrespectful to his opponent, but its something I feel they should be allowed to do. Ultimately he should have the right to practice his superstition when it doesn't directly affect anyone negatively.


honestly, il leave it at this post, barring quote rebuttals. 

1 i believe the fighters should be separated post fight. 

2 then and only then the winner can do what the **** he wants. i dont have an issue with him owning the octagon or even getting in the middle of it to thank god. 

you dont see them pulling it with rogan mid interview, do you?

i dont care if he wants to mock the dude like a bitch from a distance. thats his shit. and it will come back on him. 

he should be DQ'd lie a motherfucka if he gets down to do that over a guy who is out and who he has been separated from by a sanctioned referee. 

we wouldnt like it if chael did it mocking silva after a win. the reverse proves the rule. and more to the point...if the ref has separated the fighters he has no place in the other guys vicinity until he is up. 

thats my opinion. i may or may not chose to defend it, but im done expressing it at this point. 

thanks for the replies. 

cheers for voting.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

VincePierce said:


> honestly, il leave it at this post, barring quote rebuttals.
> 
> 1 i believe the fighters should be separated post fight.
> 
> ...


wait you mean like doing that directly over the guy? i thought this was all about like 10+feet away. what the guy is crowding around the medical staff, ref, other people, the guy's camp... im not even sure he could get over the guys body but hell no, i believe you'd get your ass kicked doing something like that.

edit: check out phil baroni against scott jansen he lingered around to closely after he knocked the guy out and he got attacked. which id assume to be a relatively common occurrence in such an event.


----------



## YousefTheGreat (May 29, 2010)

VincePierce said:


> its always in the centre of the ring and usually over the guy who is lying there fucked up after being beaten.
> 
> lets say its a muslim fighter who does a dozen allah akbars over an american he ktfo.
> 
> ...


Are you serious? Its called freedom of speech. Why don't I hear anyone speaking against Sanchez yelling "Jesus is #1" every 2 seconds after his fight. Honestly, who gives a crap, let the man praise his god as you do to yours, grow up.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

YousefTheGreat said:


> Are you serious? Its called freedom of speech. Why don't I hear anyone speaking against Sanchez yelling "Jesus is #1" every 2 seconds after his fight. Honestly, who gives a crap, *let the man praise his god as you do to yours, grow up.*


lol :laugh:


----------



## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

God helps them in a way, motivates them and they feel like God was by their side after all the hard work they have done and won.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

YousefTheGreat said:


> Are you serious? Its called freedom of speech. Why don't I hear anyone speaking against Sanchez yelling "Jesus is #1" every 2 seconds after his fight. Honestly, who gives a crap, let the man praise his god as you do to yours, grow up.


its got nothing to do with freedom of speech. 

we're not arguing about his right to express his religion, were arguing about his right to impose that shit on a fallen popponent by ignoring the separation of fighters imposed by the sanctioned referee, getting gown on his knees and doing it over them/in their face while they are beaten on the floor.

what are you 10 years old? read the thread next time you post.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

You have a right to thank whichever fictional, imaginary character you wish to thank when in America. There's no law about doing so. If you are allowed to tell a person that he's going to go into a ficitonal place called hell if he doesn't believe in the imaginary character you praise, then by all means you should be able to thank and praise the same imaginary character inside the octagon after you win.

Freedom of religion and freedom from religion, one of the few things America does right.

Also, this post is assuming you're talking about UFC, which is an American based company that mostly holds its events in America. Whatever laws in whatever country you should follow.


----------



## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

VincePierce said:


> its got nothing to do with freedom of speech.
> 
> we're not arguing about his right to express his religion, were arguing about his right to impose that shit on a fallen popponent by ignoring the separation of fighters imposed by the sanctioned referee, getting gown on his knees and doing it over them/in their face while they are beaten on the floor.
> 
> ...


I would do the same if I won a fight, I would get on my knees, kiss my hand and point up to the sky. Why? Because I believe in God and I have the right to do so. It isn't disrecpectful in anyway, it is self contained and calm. I would rather someone do that then run around the octagon like a child screaming. Actually now that I think about it I like all celebrations unless its not taunting or unsportsman like, if you lose you lose.


----------



## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

Okay to clarify since some people are still misinterpreting the OP, I don't think anyone has any objections to getting on your knees, pointing to the sky, praying, thanking the Big Man or anything like that, it's your beliefs if you want to do that you can.

However the OP's point was that when your forcibly involve your defeated opponent to be involved in your celebration, like the Barboza vs Lullo fight, at the end Barboza walks over to the centre, kneels down right next to Lullo and starts talking to the man upstairs. You see Lullo trying to speak to him, but Barboza ignores him, prays then does the ritual hug for a second then walks away. To clarify for the red reppers that's what I found distasteful and believe (unless I gravely misunderstood) was the point in this thread.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Hawndo said:


> Okay to clarify since some people are still misinterpreting the OP, I don't think anyone has any objections to getting on your knees, pointing to the sky, praying, thanking the Big Man or anything like that, it's your beliefs if you want to do that you can.
> 
> However the OP's point was that when your forcibly involve your defeated opponent to be involved in your celebration, like the Barboza vs Lullo fight, at the end Barboza walks over to the centre, kneels down right next to Lullo and starts talking to the man upstairs. You see Lullo trying to speak to him, but Barboza ignores him, prays then does the ritual hug for a second then walks away. To clarify for the red reppers that's what I found distasteful and believe (unless I gravely misunderstood) was the point in this thread.


this ^

and i also would thank my deity in such a situation. "i'd like to thank a close person friend of mine, satan, he's always been there encouraging me, not judging and I owe him a lot. everyone is invited to my after party where we will celebrate my lord and savior lucifer in his favorite activities of imbibing alcohol and looking at naked women. oh but for those interested matt hughes is having a reading from the bible... free punch with that"


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

ACTAFOOL said:


> its stupid
> 
> IF there is a god why would you simply assume hes helping you win as if you're better than the other fighter? yeah in gods eyes your more important than him...:sarcastic12:


practically every religion believes that praying to their god can yield positive results in real-world situations like a fight, though. So stupid or not, billions are doing it.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

Hawndo said:


> Okay to clarify since some people are still misinterpreting the OP, I don't think anyone has any objections to getting on your knees, pointing to the sky, praying, thanking the Big Man or anything like that, it's your beliefs if you want to do that you can.
> 
> However the OP's point was that when your forcibly involve your defeated opponent to be involved in your celebration, like the Barboza vs Lullo fight, at the end Barboza walks over to the centre, kneels down right next to Lullo and starts talking to the man upstairs. You see Lullo trying to speak to him, but Barboza ignores him, prays then does the ritual hug for a second then walks away. To clarify for the red reppers that's what I found distasteful and believe (unless I gravely misunderstood) was the point in this thread.


lol ... we got people here who should know better not even bothering to read the original post. its ridiculous.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

M.C said:


> You have a right to thank whichever fictional, imaginary character you wish to thank when in America. There's no law about doing so. If you are allowed to tell a person that he's going to go into a ficitonal place called hell if he doesn't believe in the imaginary character you praise, then by all means you should be able to thank and praise the same imaginary character inside the octagon after you win.
> 
> Freedom of religion and freedom from religion, one of the few things America does right.
> 
> Also, this post is assuming you're talking about UFC, which is an American based company that mostly holds its events in America. Whatever laws in whatever country you should follow.


read the original post. 

thank you.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

i just want to say something. 

we got 10 or so people attacking me for making this thread from all angles on a religion v secularism basis.

its so ignorant. 

its uncivil and it has no bearing on the actual thread.

no ones actually reading the OP and all people are doing is displaying their own ignorance. 

this thread aint even about religion, its about the issues around imposing yourself and your beliefs on others. something that has happened again and again in this thread alone. 

why would a person who has been separated from someone he just beat by a sanctioned referee, go over to were they are laying and kneel down over them and then perform a ritual in their space after they have been separated by the referee. with all due respect it stinks.

does a person who has just had their clock cleaned and is lying prone and helpless on the floor not have the right to freedom from religion in the form of the guy who just beat them kneeling down next to them in front of millions of people and involving them in a creepy involuntary ritual. 

like i said it stinks, so does the practice of attacking ppl who are perceived to be secular just because you believe something else. 

what the hell does partisan us and them mentality attacking what you dont understand and havent even read have to do with religious morality?

as i said its happened again and again on this thread. 

ppl have just jumped into their group tank and fired without even looking at what they were firing at. 

the irony is i do have faith and im not someone who has an issue at all with freedom of religion. 

ppls true colours come shinning through as always tho.


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Making sweeping generalized attacks at everyone posting in your thread isn't very conducive to a civil argument...


----------



## North (Mar 29, 2010)

I didn't catch the fight on Saturday. If he was kneeled down that near to him, like it's been described, I very much disagree. I dislike most of the celebrations or after-fight taunts though. I dislike when guys run around or do backflips after a win, but I can understand that they're still pumped and very happy, so I can choke that down. It's the whole, shooting the defeated with imaginary guns, or digging a grave, type of stuff that really is dumb in my opinion. 

I think it was Brandon Vera did the grave digging thing, and Brock Lesnar did that stuff after his fight with Heath Herring. Honestly, had those two not done that crap, probably would like both of those fighters way, way more. But that kind of stuff is just wicked disrespectful, and I can't stand it. 

-North


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

North said:


> I didn't catch the fight on Saturday. If he was kneeled down that near to him, like it's been described, I very much disagree. I dislike most of the celebrations or after-fight taunts though. I dislike when guys run around or do backflips after a win, but I can understand that they're still pumped and very happy, so I can choke that down. It's the whole, shooting the defeated with imaginary guns, or digging a grave, type of stuff that really is dumb in my opinion.
> 
> I think it was Brandon Vera did the grave digging thing, and Brock Lesnar did that stuff after his fight with Heath Herring. Honestly, had those two not done that crap, probably would like both of those fighters way, way more. But that kind of stuff is just wicked disrespectful, and I can't stand it.
> 
> -North


Tito Ortiz actually started both the grave digging AND gun shooting celebrations in the UFC. He was doing it to Guy Mezger and Jerry Bohlander back in 1999 and it's a big part of what sparked the feud with Lion's Den and KenSham, along with his famous shirts.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

VincePierce said:


> i just want to say something.
> 
> we got 10 or so people attacking me for making this thread from all angles on a religion v secularism basis.
> 
> ...


i think a lot of "civil unrest" in this thread is mainly due to misunderstanding the question being posed. There is a way to celebrate your victory in the cage and thank your deity in a respectful manner. And about everyone in this thread is cool with that, where people start having a problem is having it involve the opponent unwillingly. Not to mention doing that over an opponent is just uncouth and presumptuous. 

tl:dr = praying to gods/goddesses is okay as long as you aren't a dick about it


----------



## North (Mar 29, 2010)

Ah. Tito Ortiz. That makes sense. 

None the less, I dislike anyone doing it, not just the creator.

-North


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

HexRei said:


> Making sweeping generalized attacks at everyone posting in your thread isn't very conducive to a civil argument...


dude its happening again and again from different people. 

youre right though the intitial conversations were good on this thread and then it got silly. 

im not criticising everyone but well its better than making personal attacks on people you dont know without even reading what they put in the first place. though as a moderator its not something thats going to happen to you. 

look i dont care if people aggree with me or not. 40% so far said they have an issue with what happened. 

it wasnt highlighted in the media and frankly, it is obvious ppl get really partisan whenever they hear the word religion. 

that isnt not my fault tho. 

its not the threads fault either. 

i have my beliefs but they have no bearing on how i celebrate if i win a fight. 

i certainly dont think kneeling down over a fallen opponent and getting into their bodyspace and involving them in a ritual they didnt volunteer for and have no part in when they are vulnerable and after they have been separated by a referee. then ignoring them as they try to talk to you/shake hands and after this ritual is performed, turning your back on them and walking off....no. i dont think thats good sportsmanship. 

more to the point if they have been separated by a referee, why are you in their space in the first place.

the only reason to be in someones space after you beat them is to shake their hand or whatever. 

ive said my piece. 

people can think whatever they like. 

i just wish people would read the thing. its happening again and again that people arent reading the OP. 

have a nice night tho. 

im done with this thread. 

thanks for your replies.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

I think every fighter has the right to celebrate his victory whatever way he wants to, as long as it isn't disrespectful to his opponent, the fans, the judges, the organisation he fights for...or the viewers on TV....and others.

The thing with him thanking God, is nothing special. Just shows he is a very religious man and he feels as though he won with God's help. Actually there are a lot of fighters who mention God in the interviews before and/or after a fight.
And this is a phenomenon is very spread in other sports too: soccer, basketball, volleyball, handball, tennis, baseball....and the list is just too big.

Let's just say...it's a huge list.


----------



## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

Sure it seems pretty dumb, but these guys are fighters, not university professors. But although I wouldn't care whether the other guy's yoga moves were religious in nature or not, coming up really close after the fight is quite unnecessary, unless it is either to thank your opponent for the fight of to make sure he's alright.

I can't really speak for a hypothetical defeated fighter who would happen to share the same religion with the guy doing this. Maybe it would feel like a bit too much if your opponent is sacrificing you to the god you believe in.:dunno:

I don't really know the logic behind doing something like this or even whether there is some form of logic with it or not from a religious perspective, so I can't determine if it's disrespectful or not. I think it looks more embarrassing to the guy doing it than the guy he does it to, but that's just me. Anyway, I don't think professional fighter is a job where you should get fired just for acting weird.


----------



## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

HexRei said:


> Making sweeping generalized attacks at everyone posting in your thread isn't very conducive to a civil argument...


Not reading the first post, just jumping on the " I'm a Christian and can do what I want because I can" wagon is neither helpful nor civil either.

I find it distasteful to forcibly involve a defeated opponent in a celebration, religious or otherwise. If you disagree with me then fine, I would very much like to hear why you disagree and we can discuss/debate it. This is a forum and what the forum is for after all.

However coming in and arguing (or debating) a subject, when you clearly failed to actually acknowledge what the discussion is meant to be about is arguing for the sake of arguing and totally defeats the point of holding a thread about a specific topic.

Not aimed at you specifically, I just feel the OP is getting an unfair amount of unnecessary flak from people.


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Hawndo said:


> Not reading the first post, just jumping on the " I'm a Christian and can do what I want because I can" wagon is neither helpful nor civil either.
> 
> I find it distasteful to forcibly involve a defeated opponent in a celebration, religious or otherwise. If you disagree with me then fine, I would very much like to hear why you disagree and we can discuss/debate it. This is a forum and what the forum is for after all.
> 
> ...



I don't see how it could possibly be aimed at me specifically or not, since I didn't do any of those things.


----------



## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

HexRei said:


> I don't see how it could possibly be aimed at me specifically or not, since I didn't do any of those things.


Just clarifying since I quoted you in the first place buddy. Just attempting to avoid a misunderstanding. :thumbsup:


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Making sweeping generalized attacks at everyone involved in a discussion when only some of them were involved with even the ALLEGED conduct is a terrible way to promote discussion. It's the debate equivalent of getting mad at one person and then taking it out on everyone.

That's all I meant. No point in making adversaries of those who never opposed you.


Anyway back on topic, I don't really mind any victory celebrations. I can see how some might find some distasteful but at the end of the day hurt feelings or god likes me more arguments aren't what I care about, it's performance in the fight.

I'm an atheist btw.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

Hawndo said:


> Just clarifying since I quoted you in the first place buddy. Just attempting to avoid a misunderstanding. :thumbsup:


lol my football team just won in europe 3-0 and qualified for the first time for the final stages of the champions league.

i am a changed man. 

i have decided to go find a german, beat him half to death and then as he lies there im gonna get down on the tarmac and offer thanks to god for the victory. 

cmon you spurs!!!!










woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo  !!!


----------



## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

I understood your point dude, was just kinda sticking up for the OP a bit since, like I said previously, I think he is getting a lot of unfair flak (not from you just to be clear) and getting a bit riled up.

edit: the above post has officially WTF'd me.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

Hawndo said:


> I understood your point dude, was just kinda sticking up for the OP a bit since, like I said previously, I think he is getting a lot of unfair flak (not from you just to be clear) and getting a bit riled up.
> 
> edit: the above post has officially WTF'd me.


it was a joke. im pretty happy right now. il probably get banned for it tho. lol. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/9219545.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/nov/24/tottenham-hotspur-werder-bremen-champions-league

meh. it is one of the biggest wins in our history. 

night all !


----------



## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

I was kinda trying to defend your point but you went and hijacked your own thread.....


Lesson learned I guess.


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

well...looks like this thread is done lol

though i went back and watched the fight and i dont see anything wrong

he just went to the center of the octagon and was very emotional so he didnt notice the dude talking to him

i dont think he meant to do it near the guy, to me it seemed like he wanted to do it right in the center of the octagon thats all

if the other fighter was in his corner i doubt barboza would have gone to his corner and do that

so i still think barboza has all the right in the world to act stupid, its not his fault (well it kinda is) that the guy is hurt right in the middle of the octagon:confused02:


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

VincePierce said:


> i have decided to go find a german, beat him half to death and then as he lies there im gonna get down on the tarmac and offer thanks to god for the victory.


Now that is just stupid! 
1. why would you be looking for a german? because Spurs played a german team???
2. why would you beat him half to death?!...
3. why would you thank god for beating him?!

What you have described, feels more like something hooligans would do.

Professional fighters can beat their opponents. They have to. It's their job. You on the other hand, i don't think so.

I'm not a religious person and i can't speak for others.

If others wanna get on their knees and thank god for a victory, fine with me. It's not like: "hey body move aside...i wanna thank god for beating you". 
Just do it...it's a ritual...a superstition...whatever.

Like Hex Rei said it already: i am interested in seeing a good fight.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

limba said:


> Now that is just stupid!
> 1. why would you be looking for a german? because Spurs played a german team???
> 2. why would you beat him half to death?!...
> 3. why would you thank god for beating him?!
> ...


it was a joke. the thread was getting a little silly. once again please read the OP. the points you have made are nothing to do with the issue addressed in the thread. 

the issue was the proximity to a fallen opponent and the lack of respect either for them or the fact they had been separated by a referee. thanking god is one thing. doing it on your knees right over some guy you just beat, thats something else. 

the guy mentioned gets on hes knees right next to a guy he just beat to the point of not being able to stand up. completely ignored him as he tries to talk or say well done and does his ritual at length then gets up turns his back on the guy and walks off. thats what ppl objected to. we are desensitized to seeing the practice from anderson silva fights, but doing it right in their face and ignoring them even tho they are injured and literally right next to you/ under you is a bit much. let that shit wait till the dude is back in his corner and standing. he should not be part of your ritual. if the ritual needs to hijack a fallen opponent in order to work then its not sportsmanship, is breaking the rules of the separation of fighters/hostilities post match and is about as legitimately religious as a cross burning session.


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

VincePierce said:


> it was a joke. the thread was getting a little silly. once again please read the OP. the points you have made are nothing to do with the issue addressed in the thread.
> 
> the issue was the proximity to a fallen opponent and the lack of respect either for them or the fact they had been separated by a referee. thanking god is one thing. doing it on your knees right over some guy you just beat, thats something else.
> 
> the guy mentioned gets on hes knees right next to a guy he just beat to the point of not being able to stand up. completely ignored him as he tries to talk or say well done and does his ritual at length then gets up turns his back on the guy and walks off. thats what ppl objected to. we are desensitized to seeing the practice from anderson silva fights, but doing it right in their face and ignoring them even tho they are injured and literally right next to you/ under you is a bit much. let that shit wait till the dude is back in his corner and standing. he should not be part of your ritual. if the ritual needs to hijack a fallen opponent in order to work then its not sportsmanship, is breaking the rules of the separation of fighters/hostilities post match and is about as legitimately religious as a cross burning session.


actually i think he just went to the center of the octagon, if the fighter was in his corner i dont think barboza would have gone to his corner and thanked god there, it seems like right after the fight he looks for the center and goes there, the guy just happened to be right in the center also, and when the guy is talking to him barboza is obviously on an emotional high and still ''talking to god'' after he was done he talked to the fighter and congratulated him, quick or not, he still did it

barboza was obviously on an emotional high and the fight was important to him, he felt like thanking god in the middle of the octagon, rather i agree with it or not im just saying that i dont think he did that in the way you guys are seeing it.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

ACTAFOOL said:


> actually i think he just went to the center of the octagon, if the fighter was in his corner i dont think barboza would have gone to his corner and thanked god there, it seems like right after the fight he looks for the center and goes there, the guy just happened to be right in the center also, and when the guy is talking to him barboza is obviously on an emotional high and still ''talking to god'' after he was done he talked to the fighter and congratulated him, quick or not, he still did it
> 
> barboza was obviously on an emotional high and the fight was important to him, he felt like thanking god in the middle of the octagon, rather i agree with it or not im just saying that i dont think he did that in the way you guys are seeing it.


^^ Bingo
No disrespect imo.
Lullo would have got up and walked to his corner, but his legs were just brutalized. That's why he was laying down. And he was conscious, it was just that his legs were ...gone.
I am 100% convinced if Barboza would have KO'd him unconscious, he wouldn't have celebrated like that, with his opponent laying down flat...
Just my 2 cents.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

ACTAFOOL said:


> actually i think he just went to the center of the octagon, if the fighter was in his corner i dont think barboza would have gone to his corner and thanked god there, it seems like right after the fight he looks for the center and goes there, the guy just happened to be right in the center also, and when the guy is talking to him barboza is obviously on an emotional high and still ''talking to god'' after he was done he talked to the fighter and congratulated him, quick or not, he still did it
> 
> barboza was obviously on an emotional high and the fight was important to him, he felt like thanking god in the middle of the octagon, rather i agree with it or not im just saying that i dont think he did that in the way you guys are seeing it.


i must admit it looked a bit different on my laptop. 

quite a few ppl had an issue with this if you look at the poll results. 

i dont want to make it about one guy tho, i honestly just think its too much when the guy is lying there / injured. 

i understand that he wouldnt have gone chasing lullo to his corner but he seemed to show no consideration for the guy he was next too and also seemed to turn his back on him and ignored him after his elongated religious ritual. 

i think this proximity stuck in a lot of ppls minds as there is no way a celebrating fighter would be allowed that close to someone they just beat usually. 

i dont want to nit pick as its silly when ppl spend days disecting a split second decision by some guy we dont know 100s/1000s of miles away (outside of the fight itself of course). 

the practice itself is of course fair enough, i just dont think you should physically do it over a fallen opponent given the fact you are on your knees and literaly right in their face at the time. 

i take that he didnt follow him to his corner but this is not the critical issue. the separation of fighters post fight should take presidence over the celebration habits of the victor and he should certainly not be alowed into the losers personal space to self initiate a religious or any other ritual. 

i think the separation of fighters should prohibit this from happening.

again. barring a load of new stupidness (as oppose to answers that actually read the thread such as yours) thats my 2 pennies worth. 

i dont like disagreeing with you but it did look different to me. 

have a good thanks giving.


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

VincePierce said:


> i must admit it looked a bit different on my laptop.
> 
> quite a few ppl had an issue with this if you look at the poll results.
> 
> ...


i understand and i actually dont like it when fighters start thanking god, i agree that he was doing it way too close, it was a weird sight but i really dont think he meant to do it that close to him, not in a negative way at least, i gave him a pass since barboza seemed to be just very emotional

im from brazil and we have a touhg life here, economy is booming but the majority of ppl here are very poor still and barboza is probably one of those ppl who had a tough life but still found a way to get to the UFC...something not easy to do, im guessing he was just so happy to have won and in such an impressive fashion that he didnt even think about the other guy

though i do think he should have done it away from him, but its hard to seperate fighters so fast, the guy was still obviously hurt and they shouldnt move him out of the octagon until they are sure there was nothing seriously wrong with his leg

so it wont always be easy to seperate them and the fighter who wins will rarley have the discipline to contain himself until the other fighter is out of the picture so only then he can celebrate, so even though i think it would be the nice thing to do i just dont see how it would be possible

i think we kind of have to deal with seeing this from time to time, though good thing its not something common...the way it happened in this fight at least


----------

