# OFFICIAL: McGregor vs Nate Diaz headlines UFC 196 (@170lbs!)



## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/%5BMEDIA%3Dyoutube%5D09280004096[/MEDIA]


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Should be fun, but it's still a serious letdown.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

Say what you want about Conor, but the guy is as active as one can be and when he's scheduled to fight you know he is going to fight. You can't say that about many.


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## sucrets (Jul 8, 2007)

LOL

This is awesome!


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Yea MFers Yea!

209


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Decent backup, glad it wasn't cerrone


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Decent backup, glad it wasn't cerrone


probably the best choice, but 170? gotta give Conor credit for agreeing to this. huge risk.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Yea MFers Yea!
> 
> 209


Never thought I would be on your boat for this one, jonny, but *war 209, dammit*. :laugh:


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Leed said:


> Say what you want about Conor, but the guy is as active as one can be and when he's scheduled to fight you know he is going to fight. You can't say that about many.





Sportsman 2.0 said:


> Never thought I would be on your boat for this one, jonny, but *war 209, dammit*. :laugh:


Welcome :: passesblunt::


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Welcome :: passesblunt::


Didn't quite get the 209 memo, but hey... I'll never miss out on a blunt. :thumb02:


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Conor by decision btw, it must be a 3 rounder on this short notice at 170 right?


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

170? Jesus. At that weight who knows what happens. That's a whole weight division above 155, that's two divisions above where he normally fights. This should be interesting.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Conor by decision btw, it must be a 3 rounder on this short notice at 170 right?


No. Who would want 3 rounds?


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Apparently it is 5 rounds, should be fun


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

is Conor the new BJ ?

is he the fabled "motivated BJ"?


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Yea MFers Yea!
> 
> 209


I'm done talking about Conor McGregor in realistic terms.

Here was me going back and forth with you about weights, Helwani posted:-

Nate Diaz was always the top choice here but getting below 165 on such short notice was one issue. They came back with 160 pounds but that was going to be an issue too so Diaz stood firm at 165 pounds. In the end, the weight or opponent never mattered to McGregor. That's the truth. "Make it 170," he says. "Tell him to get comfortable."

So I'm there saying it's ridiculous to expect Conor to fight 20lbs about his typical weight class instead of 10....and Conor basically says "Naaaah let's make it 25, fk you Clyde".

Awesome fight though. Not history making but awesome. Maybe history making? Has anyone, even including Hendo, ever jumped an entire weight class like this? If Conor wins at 170, this ACTUALLY opens up Lawler....and GSP!!!!!!! How fking insane is that? It's not like Nate Diaz has never fought at Welterweight before, it would be a pretty credible win at 170.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I actually worry about his next weight cut down. That's a shit load of weight to peel off. He's looking bulkier. How's he going to bounce back n forth fighting at an optimal level. I actually looked at the charts and Conor was pretty much the same size as RDA...

Now it's at 170...haha. Man...this is the most taunting we're going to see in a fight.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Conor is a crazy dude. Got to love his mentality, the guy just wants to get in the cage and do his thing, regardless of weight or whatever. He's now fighting 2 weights above where he normally fights, and 1 weight above where he's been training to fight. This is after his opponent pulled out 11 days before the fight. Anyone else would have called the fight off entirely.

A completely different type of opponent, different body type, different skill set, a cardio machine and a guy who looked as good as he's ever looked in his last fight. This is a tough fight for anyone, and he's doing it on 11 days notice two weights above normal.

I have no idea who will win this to be honest, so many variables with the weight and all that. I mean he pulled this off against Mendes, but that was back at 145... it's just different.


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## SpeedyMcGoo (Nov 19, 2015)

Love this match up, Nate has the height and reach advantage over Connor something he hasn't had to deal with before, plus Nate knows how to use that reach with his beautiful straight 1 2's I think Connors diverse kicking game could be the difference maker though


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## Andrus (Oct 18, 2011)

Nate will get that UFC money now.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Nate called Nick and told him to put on the red panties, bro is coming home with the bacon.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Andrus said:


> Nate will get that UFC money now.


I'm pretty excited to see the payouts. Mendes got $500k in a very similar spot to this.


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

BTW, I didn't hear or read about aldo stepping in for his rematch


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

hadoq said:


> is Conor the new BJ ?
> 
> is he the fabled "motivated BJ"?


Motivated Conor›All


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

@jonnyg4508 Let me never hear that talk of the King is 'goofy' again! 

Poor old Liddell and Oldfan are going to struggle with this. Frankie's bank is going to be calling him up in the morning and tell him they can't let anymore payments slide! 

Nate is going to get a spinning back kick square in the chest after 10 seconds and take an awful beating. Hope there is at least some good smack talk before it starts!


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

hadoq said:


> BTW, I didn't hear or read about aldo stepping in for his rematch


Aldo said he wasn't 'fit' :laugh:


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> @jonnyg4508 Let me never hear that talk of the King is 'goofy' again!
> 
> Poor old Liddell and Oldfan are going to struggle with this. Frankie's bank is going to be calling him up in the morning and tell him they can't let anymore payments slide!
> 
> Nate is going to get a spinning back kick square in the chest after 10 seconds and take an awful beating. Hope there is at least some good smack talk before it starts!


I think Conor will open with this tbh. Nate often starts with his hands low.


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## MK. (Dec 16, 2012)

Conor is a true warrior, can't see how anyone who has more then two neurons will dispute this.

I hope he wrecks Diaz in brutal fashion, WAR CONOR!


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

Wow, at 170?

I am legit surprised, I really didnt expect that at all and it has to favour Diaz more than a fight at 155 would.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

gazh said:


> Wow, at 170?
> 
> I am legit surprised, I really didnt expect that at all and it has to favour Diaz more than a fight at 155 would.


I can't really see Diaz winning - whats he got apart from his boxing? He beat Johnson recently because MJ has a very limited attack, he kept on throwing the same combo and all Nate did was throw a 1-2 for 3 rounds that MJ walked into like Bart simpson going after the electric cupcake. 

Nate doesn't throw with KO power, so he is not finishing the fight like that. He's not going to grind out a 5 round win lying on top of the smaller guy. You would have to think Conor has far too many weapons for Nate and destroy his legs with oblique kicks from range. 
To be honest any of the other guys discussed as a potential fight were more dangerous in my eyes. 

By the way, remember a few months ago I mentioned the WW belt and GSP? I believe me and you discussed it first. Not looking too unlikely now


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

SpeedyMcGoo said:


> Love this match up, Nate has the height and reach advantage over Connor something he hasn't had to deal with before, plus Nate knows how to use that reach with his beautiful straight 1 2's I think Connors diverse kicking game could be the difference maker though


and does the left hand have the same devastating affect at this weight?


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Good fight...but not as a Main Event.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

DonRifle said:


> @jonnyg4508 Let me never hear that talk of the King is 'goofy' again!
> 
> Poor old Liddell and Oldfan are going to struggle with this. Frankie's bank is going to be calling him up in the morning and tell him they can't let anymore payments slide!
> 
> Nate is going to get a spinning back kick square in the chest after 10 seconds and take an awful beating. Hope there is at least some good smack talk before it starts!


Did you read what happened without the Helwani goggles.

First let me say I guve props to Conor more than you would think. He backs up his talk. But he didnt not care about weight.

Helwani will have the masses think Conor didnt care the weight yet here is the exact process he explained

1. Conor wanted 160lb weight

2. Nate said he cant get down there and said 165. 

3. Nate held firm on 165

4. Conor then chose to say "tell him 170 get comfy" when he realized Diaz wqsnt budging. To get the last word as if he were a badass who did not care about the weight....because he would have just said 170 at the jump.

So props to Conor for being so active and knocking fools out. But dont get fooled on this one.

The kings terms? This was on 209s terms.

If you listen very close you can hear the faint sound of "wooo hooo" as Helwani swings joyfully from Conor's balls.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Holy shit this is going to be awesome. Conor's a maniac. He'll fight anyone. Can't wait. Going to be a long night for Nate Diaz.


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## SpeedyMcGoo (Nov 19, 2015)

Calminian said:


> SpeedyMcGoo said:
> 
> 
> > Love this match up, Nate has the height and reach advantage over Connor something he hasn't had to deal with before, plus Nate knows how to use that reach with his beautiful straight 1 2's I think Connors diverse kicking game could be the difference maker though
> ...


I assume he carries it up. I believe his knockout power has more to do with the accuracy and timing than anything


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Shit, this is going to be awesome. Don't even care about the belts, who the hell knows what happens in this one.

McGregor is the real deal, nobody can really say anything after this. His method of not sparring way too hard but focusing intensely on body movement should keep him way more active than the other fighters destroying themselves in the gym (aka the missing Mexican Cain)


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> DonRifle said:
> 
> 
> > @jonnyg4508 Let me never hear that talk of the King is 'goofy' again!
> ...


helwani swings from the testicles of everyone, he should get a fee for being a PR agent
If it is not thing kings terms, its the kings balls that have made this happen!

Jumping two weight classes in this day and age, is duke nukem balls of steel levels! I hope a few guys takr notice of this and man up a bit in the future. How am i supposed to ever book trips to vegas with fuc'ks pulling out of every second fight


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## SpeedyMcGoo (Nov 19, 2015)

rabakill said:


> Shit, this is going to be awesome. Don't even care about the belts, who the hell knows what happens in this one.


I'm actually more excited now than I was for the title fight, I expect there to be some really good striking exchanges with King Mac coming out on top


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

Seems like a potential short night for Nate
But I could see the potential for Diaz getting to the ground, going for a sub.

why wouldn't he? he's clearly outclassed on the feet, if he has, even the slightest chance, it's on the ground.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)




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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)




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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)




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## Andrus (Oct 18, 2011)

I did kinda call it yesterday. Just sayin.


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## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

These pictures are too much, what a great fight


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## Glothin (Jun 8, 2010)

Nate Diaz has pressure, a decent chin, good throws and most of all is a Gracie blackbelt who actually uses it.Conor has not fought someone with Nate's BJJ. Remember the Jim Miller fight?

I could see Nate trying to pull guard and landing a submission.

Plus, Conor has had nice things to say about Diaz in the past. I could also see Conor getting the TKO and bringing the Diaz Bros to Dublin for training or just hanging out with them after their inevitable brewhaha over the buildup and fight is over with.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Diaz isn't going to get close enough to McGregor to pull guard. That Diaz striking isn't going to have any effect either. I think stylistically this is a fantastic fight for Conor. Can see it ending by TKO in the 2nd.


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## MarchOfMephisto (Feb 24, 2016)

Gotta admit, McGregor has some balls facing a guy at 170 on short notice. 

Even if it is Nate Diaz, although, the guy looked pretty good against Michael Johnson. 

As long as it stays on the feet we're in for a war, two iron chinned punchers, although, I'm curious how McGregor's power will translate too WW.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Yea MFers Yea!
> 
> 209


So what happened to your conclusion of McGregor *****ing out of fighting Nate at a catchweight? Now he's fighting him at WW, where he should be fighting Robbie Lawler.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I believe the only thing McGregor needs to watch out for is the 50-50 guard position if it gets there. Diaz is crafty enough to get a leg submission. Otherwise I think we're going to see Conor batter Diaz with leg kicks, teeps to the gut although I don't think it'll be as effective as it was against Mendez, and then I see them exchanging while taunting each other non-stop. This will be the first time Conor will not have a reach advantage to my knowledge. 

Major props to Conor for once again being ready to do battle. How many champions and fighters have decided to postpone the fight altogether.

Also Conor is fighting at Nate Diaz' natural weight class. That's like saying GSP fighting against Daniel Cormier. Flip side is we may see even MORE POWER from Conor. His guns looked a lot bigger. Conor by TKO in the 3rd.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Conor's power comes from his timing, his precision and his speed. None of those things will be gone at WW. If anything, he's going to be even more deadly.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Nate is going to get absolutely butchered with body kicks, jesus christ. Will Nick be cornering or does his silly suspension not allow him to corner his brother?

I'd love to see Nick step into the Octagon if McGregor beats Nate and call him out.


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## MMAexamined (May 11, 2015)

Epic shit talk to be expected here


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Win Win for Conor fans. If he wins we get to hear how he is the greatest thing walking for months again. If he loses, fighting at 170 is an extremely convenient excuse.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

I like that McGregor is fighting someone kinda similar to himself here, apart from the kicks of course. Nate is not his brother, he rarely throws body shots, he is all about his his accuracy and timing throwing to that head from the southpaw stance. 

It will be interesting to see who can work that game better... I get why people are heavily picking McGregor. But i foresee an interesting fight that might just be a harder night for McGregor than many think... certainly if it goes some rounds, Because Nate always takes a round to get his timing down.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

The fight should be fun, no doubt, but it is ridiculous being a main event when we have a belt being disputed in the same card. This is what I mean about entertainment going over the sport and lets face it, whoever buys this PPV or goes to the fight will do it regardless of this fight being a main or co-main event, so money wise won't be a difference for UFC, so why not respect the only Champion putting her belt on the line by giving her and her challenger the main event?


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

This is such great news. I love the 209 boys as they are tough as they come. I hope Nate is in pretty good shape so we get a great fight. Nate might be big enough to pull Conor to the mat.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> The fight should be fun, no doubt, but it is ridiculous being a main event when we have a belt being disputed in the same card. This is what I mean about entertainment going over the sport and lets face it, whoever buys this PPV or goes to the fight will do it regardless of this fight being a main or co-main event, so money wise won't be a difference for UFC, so why not respect the only Champion putting her belt on the line by giving her and her challenger the main event?


Well... i think this is the only way it stays 5 rounds.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Joabbuac said:


> Well... i think this is the only way it stays 5 rounds.


Why? Isn't this match up a last minute Frankenstein already? Both last bouts would be 5 rounders anyway.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> Why? Isn't this match up a last minute Frankenstein already? Both last bouts would be 5 rounders anyway.


Can non-main event, non-title fights be 5 rounds? I thought that was the rule... might be mistaken.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Joabbuac said:


> Can non-main event, non-title fights be 5 rounds? I thought that was the rule... might be mistaken.


Im pretty sure the UFC can do whatever the fook they want in this regard.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

What a stupid fight. Guess they did it so in off chance McGregor loses they can blame it at being above his weight class and last minute. Will be interesting to see what McGregor weighs if he comes it at 170 or below that. 

Sad that the UFC picks gong show fights like this instead of valid fights like the Cerrone one. Cerrone is pissed he didn't get the fight so you know its just the UFC screwing around or McGregor was ducking him.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

420atalon said:


> What a stupid fight. Guess they did it so in off chance McGregor loses they can blame it at being above his weight class and last minute. Will be interesting to see what McGregor weighs if he comes it at 170 or below that.
> 
> Sad that the UFC picks gong show fights like this instead of valid fights like the Cerrone one. Cerrone is pissed he didn't get the fight so you know its just the UFC screwing around or McGregor was ducking him.


Cerrone would have choked in the big fight again. Just like he did versus Diaz, Pettis, RDA. Every time the spotlight is on that guy he folds like a cheap suit.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Usually, the weight difference would play a part in my prediction. But in an age when Rumble can go from 170 to 205 and be so much better, im not sure what to think. Conor could be weak at WW, or a monster.

Whatever, he gets full props from me for waking the walk and doing what he says: Fighting any motherfecker they put in front of him.

Wank move making it the main event though. Holly gets no respect.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Usually, the weight difference would play a part in my prediction. But in an age when Rumble can go from 170 to 205 and be so much better, im not sure what to think. Conor could be weak at WW, or a monster.
> 
> Whatever, he gets full props from me for waking the walk and doing what he says: Fighting any motherfecker they put in front of him.
> 
> Wank move making it the main event though. Holly gets no respect.


I think it will be to the ladies favour. More eyes will be on the Holm Tate fight with Conor after it. Last time Conor didn't headline mighty mouse came on after and everyone tuned out and didn't watch the main event

Also promoting it as the main event will bring in more PPV buys I reckon, more cash for both Holm and Tate


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> I think it will be to the ladies favour. More eyes will be on the Holm Tate fight with Conor after it. Last time Conor didn't headline mighty mouse came on after and everyone tuned out and didn't watch the main event
> 
> Also promoting it as the main event will bring in more PPV buys I reckon, more cash for both Holm and Tate


It will do the ladies a bigger favour if the UFC does what it has always done and put title fights on as the main event. This is really disingenuous towards the womans division.

The fight itself won't even be close, Nate is no Nick. I expect an early finish from McGregor. Cowboy would have been a better fight, and yes I'm aware people will say Cowboy folds in big fights, but at least wins some big fights too. Thats more than can be said of Nate who seems to lose every big fight he is involved in.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Spite said:


> ... This is really disingenuous towards the womans division.


It goes beyond sex. Im sure they would have demoted a male title fight to co-main if the name wasn't big enough. If it was Ronda instead of Holm, they would have kept it as the main I reckon.

Personally, I think Holm deserves a main event title fight after disposing of their ex-biggest star so beautifully. Shes not a young girl. She may not have that many title fights from here on. Let the girl have her special night for fooks sake.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I don't get complaining that McGregor and Nate is over Holly and Miesha. McGregor is the biggest draw in MMA, Miesha and Holly would struggle for hit top 10.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Im pretty sure the UFC can do whatever the fook they want in this regard.


Its the commissions who decide what the UFC are allowed to do. They granted the UFC permission to have 5 round main events.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I don't get complaining that McGregor and Nate is over Holly and Miesha. McGregor is the biggest draw in MMA, Miesha and Holly would struggle for hit top 10.


The UFC is littered with instances of bigger draws fighting before title fights. Hell pretty much every fighter on a Mighty Mouse card is a bigger draw than him, but the don't demote his main event status.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I don't get complaining that McGregor and Nate is over Holly and Miesha. McGregor is the biggest draw in MMA, Miesha and Holly would struggle for hit top 10.


Most of the time, I agree. The draw of a fighter is important. But title fights are different. The UFC can piss around and promote however they want to. I dont really care. But when they start dropping title fight in favour of hype? I'm not digging that at all.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Only 8 years into his pro career and already about to fight someone his size! Praise him raise01:

it's clearly the wrong diaz at 170. Nate was one of the weakest ww's I ever saw in the ufc but I recon even the 2nd string diaz is more than enough to shut the goober hole up. 


209


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Joabbuac said:


> Its the commissions who decide what the UFC are allowed to do. They granted the UFC permission to have 5 round main events.


I didnt know that, if true. I figured the commission might play a part in allowing 5 round fights, but not necessarily the conditions.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> The UFC is littered with instances of bigger draws fighting before title fights. Hell pretty much every fighter on a Mighty Mouse card is a bigger draw than him, but the don't demote his main event status.


But this isn't "bigger draw". This is BIGGEST draw. The reason titles are on last is because they are the most important thing...but they aren't the most important thing on this card.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> But this isn't "bigger draw". This is BIGGEST draw. The reason titles are on last is because they are the most important thing...but they aren't the most important thing on this card.


What utter crap.

The most important fight on this card is Holm v Tate.

It was, by far, Conor v RDA. Not any more.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> But this isn't "bigger draw". This is BIGGEST draw. The reason titles are on last is because they are the most important thing...but they aren't the most important thing on this card.


"interest" is not equal to "importance". Not in sports. Thats like saying Brazil vs Argentina for the World Cup bronze would be more "important" than Denmark vs Japan in the final.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

The exact problem is champions not being "the most important things" anymore.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> What utter crap.
> 
> The most important fight on this card is Holm v Tate.
> 
> It was, by far, Conor v RDA. Not any more.


Well it seems like the UFC and pretty much every single person on this forum and everywhere else seems to disagree. Who's talking about Holly and Miesha exactly? Holly and Miesha would be lucky to sell 50% of what Nate and Conor does.

It's not really a big mystery. You market the biggest draw. That's why WrestleMania is going to be pure pish. They are going to put Triple H Vs Roman Reigns on after Brock Lesnar and everyone will phase out.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Soojooko said:


> "interest" is not equal to "importance". Not in sports. Thats like saying Brazil vs Argentina for the World Cup bronze would be more "important" than Denmark vs Japan in the final.


Conor McGregor's streak and status is more important than the Woman's Bantamweight Belt. That's why everyone is talking about it.

A prime Georges St Pierre Vs a prime Anderson Silva at a catchweight would be above any Mighty Mouse fight too.

Plus, this was the scheduled main event. There might be main event bonuses in people's pockets. There is a structure to things like embedded which puts most of the focus on the main event. The posters and marketing was all McGregor. Just because RDA got injured, you don't erase all of this to put on a fight that on this card is at best an afterthought.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Well it seems like the UFC and pretty much every single person on this forum and everywhere else seems to disagree. Who's talking about Holly and Miesha exactly? Holly and Miesha would be lucky to sell 50% of what Nate and Conor does.
> 
> It's not really a big mystery. You market the biggest draw. That's why WrestleMania is going to be pure pish. They are going to put Triple H Vs Roman Reigns on after Brock Lesnar and everyone will phase out.


Sure. Market the biggest draw. I gots no problem with that. Give them the air time. Give them the massive pay cheque. Give them whatever they want. Im down with that. But to give him all that - and then give him Hollys main slot? Its petty and pathetic from the UFC. It wont do feck all to Conors juggernaut whether he fights on the main or co-main. Or to the profitability of the card. Whereas it means a lot more to Holly.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Well it seems like the UFC and pretty much every single person on this forum and everywhere else seems to disagree. Who's talking about Holly and Miesha exactly? Holly and Miesha would be lucky to sell 50% of what Nate and Conor does.
> 
> It's not really a big mystery. You market the biggest draw. That's why WrestleMania is going to be pure pish. They are going to put Triple H Vs Roman Reigns on after Brock Lesnar and everyone will phase out.


You know when Bellator announced their main and co were going to be 2 street fighters and 2 pensioners I shook my head. How are Bellator ever going to compete with the UFC with shit like that.

Fast Forward a few weeks and the UFC demotes a championship match for non championship exhibition match. Maybe there is still hope for Bellator.

The sooner these organisations start acting like proper sports organisations and stop violating their own rules, the better.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

spite said:


> you know when bellator announced their main and co were going to be 2 street fighters and 2 pensioners i shook my head. How are bellator ever going to compete with the ufc with shit like that.
> 
> *fast forward a few weeks and the ufc demotes a championship match for non championship exhibition match. Maybe there is still hope for bellator.*
> 
> the sooner these organisations start acting like proper sports organisations and stop violating their own rules, the better.


f*ck yes!!!


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Not mentioning Conor didn't earn this shot at RDA belt in the first place. Now he is headlining a WW bout above a champion and a former champion all in name of hype...


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Soojooko said:


> Sure. Market the biggest draw. I gots no problem with that. Give them the air time. Give them the massive pay cheque. Give them whatever they want. Im down with that. But to give him all that - and then give him Hollys main slot? Its petty and pathetic from the UFC. It wont do feck all to Conors juggernaut whether he fights on the main or co-main. Or to the profitability of the card. Whereas it means a lot more to Holly.


But it's cool to take Conor's main slot (and then have to change UFC protocol and make a non title non main event fight a 5 rounder) because what, his opponent didn't show up?

Fans came to see Conor McGregor main event the card. After McGregor fights, if he wins, they want to go on a mad one and celebrate. This is why Conor was above Luke and Chris, this is why he's above Holly and Miesha.

There very well could be main event money clauses in contracts. The main event is a legitimate marketing thing. It's like saying "The Conor juggernaut won't die out just cause Holly is the biggest star on the picture". If that was the case, marketing wouldn't exist.

Conor was the biggest attraction in main eventing this card. At 11 days notice, his opponent pulled out. They can either change everything, or replace Conor's opponent. They went with the latter.


Spite, you talk about violating their own rules...like what? 5 round non title non main events?


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Spite, you talk about violating their own rules...like what? 5 round non title non main events?


To roughly quote Dana from a few years ago "Title fights are always main event, in the event of 2 title fights, the higher weight class will be the the main event and lower weight class co-main event"

Up until recently that has always been the case. But they violated that little rule when they put Mcgregor - Aldo ahead Weidman - Rockhold. But thats fine, I'm cool with that, I've always thought it was unfair to get the main slot just because you were bigger was bullshite anyway.

But now, they are putting an exhibition match, yes it is absolutely an exhibition match, ahead of of a genuine title fight. It really is Bellatoresque.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Spite said:


> . . .the UFC demotes a championship match for non championship exhibition match.


I'm pretty sure nothing has been demoted? Wasnt Holm vs Tate always 2nd in line, co-main? :confused02:

I dont understand the fury at McGregor vs Diaz being ME over Holm vs Tate. When you got a guy like McGregor who helps promote his ME and invests his time and effort into it, you don't just take it off him for no fault of his own. Especially when more people are interested in seeing McGregor fight than Holm.

Let it be and enjoy the fights, whatever order they're aired - it shouldnt matter to you one bit.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Spite said:


> To roughly quote Dana from a few years ago "Title fights are always main event, in the event of 2 title fights, the higher weight class will be the the main event and lower weight class co-main event"
> 
> Up until recently that has always been the case. But they violated that little rule when they put Mcgregor - Aldo ahead Weidman - Rockhold. But thats fine, I'm cool with that, I've always thought it was unfair to get the main slot just because you were bigger was bullshite anyway.
> 
> But now, they are putting an exhibition match, yes it is absolutely an exhibition match, ahead of of a genuine title fight. It really is Bellatoresque.


A lot of people are going to wish it was an "exhibition" but the big fat L on his record will be real and his chances at LW gold won't.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Damm, perv dream matchup.
Will be up for this one!


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Spite said:


> You know when Bellator announced their main and co were going to be 2 street fighters and 2 pensioners I shook my head. How are Bellator ever going to compete with the UFC with shit like that.
> 
> Fast Forward a few weeks and the UFC demotes a championship match for non championship exhibition match. Maybe there is still hope for Bellator.
> 
> The sooner these organisations start acting like proper sports organisations and stop violating their own rules, the better.


Bellator did good ratings on the Royce vs Shamrock card.



> *Bellator 149 delivers record ratings*
> 
> The chasm between what the public wants to see versus what makes for great fights may have never been wider as Friday night's Bellator show featuring Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock and Kimbo Slice, which drew an average of 1,964,000 viewers over the three hours to beat the company's all-time record by 24 percent.
> 
> ...


http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/2/22/11095446/bellator-149-delivers-record-ratings


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

The Lone Wolf said:


> I'm pretty sure nothing has been demoted? Wasnt Holm vs Tate always 2nd in line, co-main? :confused02:
> 
> I dont understand the fury at McGregor vs Diaz being ME over Holm vs Tate. When you got a guy like McGregor who helps promote his ME and invests his time and effort into it, you don't just take it off him for no fault of his own. Especially when more people are interested in seeing McGregor fight than Holm.
> 
> Let it be and enjoy the fights, whatever order they're aired - it shouldnt matter to you one bit.


It has been demoted. Title fights are main event, always have been. For it not to be is a demotion. You may argue that it was never billed as the main, I'll argue that as soon as Conor - RDA was cancelled, it became the main event.

Where do you draw the line. What if Silva-Bisping was also on this card? Would Holm - Tate be demoted to 3rd place... what if there was a bunch of people on this card that were bigger draws than Holm - Tate? Should they contest the title in the Prelims? Of course not, because title fights were and still should be the main event despite another fight being draw because simply put, they are more important fights.



oldfan said:


> A lot of people are going to wish it was an "exhibition" but the big fat L on his record will be real and his chances at LW gold won't.


I disagree this is an exhibition in every sense. It may still count in the W/L columns but the result will have no bearing on Conors career, UFC will still give him his title shot against RDA even if he loses because he stepped up to 170 at 11 days notice. Cowboy on the other hand, was willing to fight at 155. A loss against Cowboy, who would have had a brutal cut and who had just fought, would have made it neigh on impossible to sell a title match again RDA.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Spite said:


> It has been demoted. Title fights are main event, always have been. For it not to be is a demotion. You may argue that it was never billed as the main, I'll argue that as soon as Conor - RDA was cancelled, it became the main event.
> 
> Where do you draw the line. What if Silva-Bisping was also on this card? Would Holm - Tate be demoted to 3rd place... what if there was a bunch of people on this card that were bigger draws than Holm - Tate? Should they contest the title in the Prelims? Of course not, because title fights were and still should be the main event despite another fight being draw because simply put, they are more important fights.
> 
> ...


So you would still want to see a "SUPERFIGHT" between the LW champ and a fighter who is coming off a loss to a fighter who has lost to every LW champ??


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Spite said:


> It has been demoted. Title fights are main event, always have been. For it not to be is a demotion. You may argue that it was never billed as the main, I'll argue that as soon as Conor - RDA was cancelled, it became the main event.
> 
> Where do you draw the line. What if Silva-Bisping was also on this card? Would Holm - Tate be demoted to 3rd place... what if there was a bunch of people on this card that were bigger draws than Holm - Tate? Should they contest the title in the Prelims? Of course not, because title fights were and still should be the main event despite another fight being draw because simply put, they are more important fights.
> 
> ...


You may argue that Holm/Tate became the ME all you like, it doesnt make it true.

All these what if's are just a bit silly. What if nobody actually cares whether or not a fight is ME or co ME except those involved? I still get to see the fight. You still get to see it. Really, what's the issue?

Things change and evolve in sport and in particular MMA. If they didnt, we'd still be stuck with one dimensional non weight class exhibitions in MMA, and wooden golf clubs and golf balls in golf. Change can be a good thing.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

oldfan said:


> So you would still want to see a "SUPERFIGHT" between the LW champ and a fighter who is coming off a loss to a fighter who has lost to every LW champ??


It makes no difference what I want. It's how its going to be sold. Also, personally I don't think Diaz wins this, if it was the other the Diaz then I think Conor gets beat down.

But if you want to know what I want. I want conor to drop back to FW and fight Edgar @ 200. Do I think thats going to happen? I think theres more chance of seeing Nelson at MW than Conor at FW again.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

Spite said:


> You know when Bellator announced their main and co were going to be 2 street fighters and 2 pensioners I shook my head. How are Bellator ever going to compete with the UFC with shit like that.
> 
> Fast Forward a few weeks and the UFC demotes a championship match for non championship exhibition match. Maybe there is still hope for Bellator.
> 
> The sooner these organisations start acting like proper sports organisations and stop violating their own rules, the better.


This move by the UFC isn't even in the same universe as the shit Bellator pulled.

They literally almost killed a guy. That fight should have never happened. It was beyond hype.. it was a disgrace. 



Sportsman 2.0 said:


> Not mentioning Conor didn't earn this shot at RDA belt in the first place. Now he is headlining a WW bout above a champion and a former champion all in name of hype...


Holly vs Tate is a good fight however Conor could be fighting a mob bucket and it would still headline over it. 

This is how combat sports work. It has always and will also be a promotion first sporting event. Unless they are doing elimination style tournaments, it will never work like other sports. 

The sooner that is accepted, the easier this will all be to understand.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

The Lone Wolf said:


> You may argue that Holm/Tate became the ME all you like, it doesnt make it true.
> 
> All these what if's are just a bit silly. What if nobody actually cares whether or not a fight is ME or co ME except those involved? I still get to see the fight. You still get to see it. Really, what's the issue?
> 
> Things change and evolve in sport and in particular MMA. If they didnt, we'd still be stuck with one dimensional non weight class exhibitions in MMA, and wooden golf clubs and golf balls in golf. Change can be a good thing.


People should care whether the fight is Main Event or not? Do you want to see MMA become main stream or would you rather people point at it and laugh.

You don't see a Gold Medallist stand at the bottom of the platform and get their medal first. You don't see the 3rd spot in the world cup final played after the actual final. The UFC wants to be seen as a legitimate sport, how are you going to be seen as a legitimate sport when you don't act like a legitimate sport.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> To roughly quote Dana from a few years ago "Title fights are always main event, in the event of 2 title fights, the higher weight class will be the the main event and lower weight class co-main event"
> 
> Up until recently that has always been the case. But they violated that little rule when they put Mcgregor - Aldo ahead Weidman - Rockhold. But thats fine, I'm cool with that, I've always thought it was unfair to get the main slot just because you were bigger was bullshite anyway.
> 
> But now, they are putting an exhibition match, yes it is absolutely an exhibition match, ahead of of a genuine title fight. It really is Bellatoresque.


To roughly quote Dana; female fighters will never fight in the UFC.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Spite said:


> It makes no difference what I want.


 I disagree. This entire fiasco came to be from Dana doing what he thinks you/we want. I seriously question the amount of fan interest there will be after he loses to Nate. What's the point in that fight then? Just trying to fabricate something? 

if that fight still happens i think it will backfire on the UFC because they will no longer be able to justify their ridiculous promotion of goober.

If goober loses to Nate he's not a LW contender he's just a FW who can't make weight.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

hadoq said:


> Seems like a potential short night for Nate
> But I could see the potential for Diaz getting to the ground, going for a sub.
> 
> why wouldn't he? he's clearly outclassed on the feet, if he has, even the slightest chance, it's on the ground.


Who at 145 or 155 would you say isnt outclassed striking with Conor?

If it is no one then ok.

But im confused as to why people think Nate sucks standing? He beats almost everyone standing. He got KOd by thomson seemingly not fighting hard or alert. Thomson looked surprised as hell that he finished Nate. Other than that Nate trashed Cerrone in an all standup fight. Trashed michael johnson. With no threat of getting taken down he has excellent standup. Will have reach and size. Uses reach very well. Very good chin. 

By all means Conor could just be too quick for Nate and KO him.

But im confused as to why many dont Nate any chance on the feet.

5'7 head down Aldo is not Nate Diaz. Nate is a different fighter than Conor has seen. Mendes siver and aldo are all munchkins. Not sayibg they arent good.....but they brought a TOTALLY different fight.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

oldfan said:


> I disagree. This entire fiasco came to be from Dana doing what he thinks you/we want. I seriously question the amount of fan interest there will be after he loses to Nate. What's the point in that fight then? Just trying to fabricate something?
> 
> if that fight still happens i think it will backfire on the UFC because they will no longer be able to justify their ridiculous promotion of goober.
> 
> If goober loses to Nate he's not a LW contender he's just a FW who can't make weight.


I still find it hilarious that people cling to this hope that Conor's hype "goes away" if he loses haha.

Until the day Conor McGregor retires, you're going to be putting up with his shite mate. May as well buckle in for as long as it goes.

Kind of agree about Nate, but I wouldn't complain about the RDA match because A) It's at Welterweight and B) Conor could easily back out and fight RDA later, it's RDAs fault it's off.

So yeah, if Conor loses to Nate it's more of a struggle but I don't think it COMPLETELY writes off his LW title shot.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Who at 145 or 155 would you say isnt outclassed striking with Conor?
> 
> If it is no one then ok.
> 
> ...


Yeah. Really, if you're not spamming leg kick (or that rare glitch in the matrix Thompson fight)...no one has really beat up Nate Diaz standing at LW any time recently. No one has even been too competitive with him standing recently, outside of the leg kicks and Thompson.

So while I don't think it's unfair to predict Conor outclassing him, it's absolutely RIDICULOUS if someone takes anything away from a striking victory over Nate Diaz.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Who at 145 or 155 would you say isnt outclassed striking with Conor?
> 
> If it is no one then ok.
> 
> ...


Nate is one of the best boxers in the UFC technique wise. However this doesn't always translate into an effective style and technique for MMA and he has got f**ked up a few times because of this. 
The best boxing stance leaves the front leg badly exposed, and after listening to Baz Rutten talk about how the dutch kickboxers won fights back in the day with low kicks alone that were fu**ing up all the american kickboxers legs that hadnt been used to low kicks Im convinved Nate's stance is never going to win him any titles because its too easy to gameplan against. 
Only in the MJ fight did he start to check kicks - some of them - but is there a proper check for an oblique kick yet? Maybe Im wrong but I can't think of one. And with Conors Karateish in and out stance I dont think Diaz's reach is going to be enough to counter the sharp low kicks and oblique kicks.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> To roughly quote Dana; female fighters will never fight in the UFC.


And what has this got to do with anything.

"It's kind of sad that Demetrious Johnson has this thing hanging over his head, he's not this, he's not that. He does everything the exact way he's supposed to. He comes in with a game plan and follows it to the letter. He's just one of these guys that has to put his head down, keep doing his thing and you have to respect him." - Dana White

The above quote has no bearing on this discussion, but since Clyde is throwing out random stuff, I thought I would too.



oldfan said:


> I disagree. This entire fiasco came to be from Dana doing what he thinks you/we want. I seriously question the amount of fan interest there will be after he loses to Nate. What's the point in that fight then? Just trying to fabricate something?
> 
> if that fight still happens i think it will backfire on the UFC because they will no longer be able to justify their ridiculous promotion of goober.
> 
> If goober loses to Nate he's not a LW contender he's just a FW who can't make weight.


The fan interest will not dwindle at all. Guys like you and I will question it, But come on mate, you've been around this business long enough to know the fans will make excuses and the UFC will spin it and we'll see Conor v RDA @ 200.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> The fight should be fun, no doubt, but it is ridiculous being a main event when we have a belt being disputed in the same card. This is what I mean about entertainment going over the sport and lets face it, whoever buys this PPV or goes to the fight will do it regardless of this fight being a main or co-main event, so money wise won't be a difference for UFC, so why not respect the only Champion putting her belt on the line by giving her and her challenger the main event?


Oh stop. Really you are going to be this guy?

Who wabts Conor/Nate to be 3 rounds?

So we get 2 5 round fights instead of 1. Who the F cares what order they are? You are really upset over what order you watch the fights?

Just stop. Dont be that guy.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> And what has this got to do with anything.
> 
> "It's kind of sad that Demetrious Johnson has this thing hanging over his head, he's not this, he's not that. He does everything the exact way he's supposed to. He comes in with a game plan and follows it to the letter. He's just one of these guys that has to put his head down, keep doing his thing and you have to respect him." - Dana White
> 
> ...



You mentioned a Dana White quote before Conor McGregor was ever a factor. Thing change. Before Rousey was a factor, women were never to compete in the UFC. Now you want them to main event over the biggest draw on the roster. You want the UFC to change their rules by making Conor McGregor Vs Nate Diaz a 5 round non main event fight, but at the same time condemn the UFC for changing their rules and putting it in the main event.

The fan interest may not dwindle, but that's like saying "Why do they need Conor big on this poster, heavy in this video, lights out on the prelims, to star on Conan". It's all part of everything. Conor Vs Aldo above Luke and Chris made that fight that big more special. Do I give a fk? No. I don't care if it's first fight on the prelims, actually, how awesome would that be? Conor Vs Nate at midnight. But I'm not going to act like marketing and perception isn't a big factor. I had people flipping their shit at me cause 4 months ago I questioned how the UFC are actually promoting Sage Northcutt (cause they barely even put him on TV outside of Looking for a Fight) and told me I didn't understand marketing. Well I guess I'm "learning", cause putting a fight on the main event or co main event is a big statement about it's magnitude.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Spite said:


> People should care whether the fight is Main Event or not? Do you want to see MMA become main stream or would you rather people point at it and laugh.
> 
> You don't see a Gold Medallist stand at the bottom of the platform and get their medal first. You don't see the 3rd spot in the world cup final played after the actual final. The UFC wants to be seen as a legitimate sport, how are you going to be seen as a legitimate sport when you don't act like a legitimate sport.


It has gotten mainstream enough for me. The sport has only gotten worse the more mainstream it get. Give me back my stacked cards, personalities, sponsor filled shorts over watered down cards, internet subs, black and white uniforms. Give me back my niche sport that I found interesting where I could talk to a few hardcore fans rather than a bunch of new fan morons trying to form an uneducated opinion as if they know what they are talking about. 

Mainstream music sucks. Mainstream MMA sucks. 

By the way.....wouldn't Conor staying Main Event be the more mainstream thing to do? Promoting a girl fight is more of a hardcore idea since mainstream doesn't give a rip about Holm or Tate. So really they are keeping it mainstream by keeping Conor as the whole show.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> You mentioned a Dana White quote before Conor McGregor was ever a factor. Thing change. Before Rousey was a factor, women were never to compete in the UFC. Now you want them to main event over the biggest draw on the roster. You want the UFC to change their rules by making Conor McGregor Vs Nate Diaz a 5 round non main event fight, but at the same time condemn the UFC for changing their rules and putting it in the main event.


Has your local off license got a happy hour on or something? Where did I say that I wanted it to be a 5 round fight?



ClydebankBlitz said:


> The fan interest may not dwindle, but that's like saying "Why do they need Conor big on this poster, heavy in this video, lights out on the prelims, to star on Conan". It's all part of everything. Conor Vs Aldo above Luke and Chris made that fight that big more special. Do I give a fk? No. I don't care if it's first fight on the prelims, actually, how awesome would that be? Conor Vs Nate at midnight. But I'm not going to act like marketing and perception isn't a big factor. I had people flipping their shit at me cause 4 months ago I questioned how the UFC are actually promoting Sage Northcutt (cause they barely even put him on TV outside of Looking for a Fight) and told me I didn't understand marketing. Well I guess I'm "learning", cause putting a fight on the main event or co main event is a big statement about it's magnitude.


Theres a difference between promoting and damaging the integrity of the Sport. Having Conor as the co-main event means nothing, he won't lose any popularity and the card will sell just as well. But for a company that desperately wants to become mainstream, having an exhibition match as Main Event over an actual title fight, that has actual ramifications for the rest of the division, does not seem like the correct route to go in the quest for legitimisation.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Mainstream music sucks. Mainstream MMA sucks.


I don't see you posting very often about Victory, Legacy, RFA, Pancrase etc.


For someone who is very against mainstream MMA, you don't seem to be a big underground MMA fan. Or is Legacy too big for you? Is the highest level of mainstream you go videos of Alex Caceres and Jorge Masvidal fighting in fields or something? Is Tank Abbot your favourite current MMA fighter?


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> Has your local off license got a happy hour on or something? Where did I say that I wanted it to be a 5 round fight?
> 
> 
> 
> Theres a difference between promoting and damaging the integrity of the Sport. Having Conor as the co-main event means nothing, he won't lose any popularity and the card will sell just as well. But for a company that desperately wants to become mainstream, having an exhibition match as Main Event over an actual title fight, that has actual ramifications for the rest of the division, does not seem like the correct route to go in the quest for legitimisation.


Wow wow wow wow wow....you DON'T want it to be a 5 round fight? Why the fk not? What possible negative does Conor Vs Nate in 5 rounds possess? 

As johny said before, what is the possible downside of having TWO 5 round big fights?


If Conor being in the co main event changes nothing, it doesnt harm popularity or anything like that...surely Holly and Miesha being in the co main event cant harm popularity or anything either?

Basically, you want to sacrifice some PPV buys for something that means nothing.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> It has gotten mainstream enough for me. The sport has only gotten worse the more mainstream it get. Give me back my stacked cards, personalities, sponsor filled shorts over watered down cards, internet subs, black and white uniforms. Give me back my niche sport that I found interesting where I could talk to a few hardcore fans rather than a bunch of new fan morons trying to form an uneducated opinion as if they know what they are talking about.
> 
> Mainstream music sucks. Mainstream MMA sucks.
> 
> By the way.....wouldn't Conor staying Main Event be the more mainstream thing to do? Promoting a girl fight is more of a hardcore idea since mainstream doesn't give a rip about Holm or Tate. So really they are keeping it mainstream by keeping Conor as the whole show.


Agree 100% with your first paragraph.

Personally, I like a bit of structure amongst the chaos, like title fights to be main events. I think it sucks for Holly and Meisha to be playing second fiddle to cross division emergency match. Don't get me wrong, props to Conor for accepting when most would have said 'fúck it', but that still doesn't change the fact that he is not fighting for a title and should not be ahead of a title fight on the same card.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

DonRifle said:


> Nate is one of the best boxers in the UFC technique wise. However this doesn't always translate into an effective style and technique for MMA and he has got f**ked up a few times because of this.
> The best boxing stance leaves the front leg badly exposed, and after listening to Baz Rutten talk about how the dutch kickboxers won fights back in the day with low kicks alone that were fu**ing up all the american kickboxers legs that hadnt been used to low kicks Im convinved Nate's stance is never going to win him any titles because its too easy to gameplan against.
> Only in the MJ fight did he start to check kicks - some of them - but is there a proper check for an oblique kick yet? Maybe Im wrong but I can't think of one. And with Conors Karateish in and out stance I dont think Diaz's reach is going to be enough to counter the sharp low kicks and oblique kicks.


Is Conor a leg kick guy though? He doesn't win by breaking you down with kicks. He keeps u moving and defending with his kicks and throws wild stuff out there. But either way low kicks won't beat Diaz....people have targeted his front leg his hole career.

As for other kicks I do feel like Nate's distance control will help his cause a bunch. He is very good at judging distance....he has too as he isn't explosive or fast. Conor can chance guys like Mendes and Siver down and kick them. Nate is going to stand right there and hit you or move out of range with some footwork. No guy Conor has fought had the ability to stand there and hit him with hands from range. They were most all short, limited footwork, won't hit you in the pocket sort of fighters. Ones who would run away from strikes rather than slip/move just out of range....while returning a 1-2. 

Speed/reaction may do him in. That is where boxing doesn't always translate into a MMA fight. Sometimes athleticism trumps technique.....Conor will be faster and also has technique himself. But I do think if Nate doesn't come out flat then he will find distance and use it well.

Nate has to be patient which he is many times. Similar to Nick and Anderson.....I doubt his plan is to go in and try to KO Conor quick. People thought oh Nick will get KO'd he is perfect for Anderson....and he wasn't close to being KOd. Nate isn't Nick and sometimes you don't fight the way you plan to. But I see nothing from Conor's other fights that have much to do with this one. We know what Conor is.....but Nate fights totally different Conor feeds off aggressive fighters who throw wide shots.....Nate is the opposite of that.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^All of that.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I don't see you posting very often about Victory, Legacy, RFA, Pancrase etc.
> 
> 
> For someone who is very against mainstream MMA, you don't seem to be a big underground MMA fan. Or is Legacy too big for you? Is the highest level of mainstream you go videos of Alex Caceres and Jorge Masvidal fighting in fields or something? Is Tank Abbot your favourite current MMA fighter?


Just because I dont post in light trafficed RFA forum section means I dont watch? 

I dont post on the UFC forum during events either because I actually watch them with real people Nd not in my mums basement. Im not on the internet ahen big UFC ppvs are going down like many here. 

I record or stream most lower level mma events and watch them the next dag rather than sit home on a saturday night. So im supposed to go to that section and start up a conversation with no one? If you need a friend to talk to you during WSOF cards....I am not your man.

Id be willing bet Ive been to more AM and local fights....like been there....than 90% of this forum.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Wow wow wow wow wow....you DON'T want it to be a 5 round fight? Why the fk not? What possible negative does Conor Vs Nate in 5 rounds possess?
> 
> As johny said before, what is the possible downside of having TWO 5 round big fights?
> 
> ...


I don't even know why I bother discussing things with you sometimes.

You've gone from saying I wanted the UFC to change the rules to allow a co-main non title to have 5 rounds, whilst condemning the UFC at the same time for changing the rules.

Your now saying that I don't want the fight to be a 5 round fight.

I haven't said any of that.

Yes, a 5 round fight would be nice, but as another poster stated its the commission that decides what fights are and are not 5 round fights. If Conor v Nate was placed in the co-main slot, as it should be, and the commission said no to a 5 rounder - then so be it.

Seriously dude, I'm beginning to see why some people have you blocked.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

I thought the 5 round thing was a UFC thing and nothing to do with the commissions?

:confused02:


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Spite said:


> Agree 100% with your first paragraph.
> 
> Personally, I like a bit of structure amongst the chaos, like title fights to be main events. I think it sucks for Holly and Meisha to be playing second fiddle to cross division emergency match. Don't get me wrong, props to Conor for accepting when most would have said 'fúck it', but that still doesn't change the fact that he is not fighting for a title and should not be ahead of a title fight on the same card.


I get what you are saying. People feel UFC doesnt treat everyone fair and doesnt promote the women.

But if you couldnt get the ppv and came home and could watch 1 fight. Behind door 1 is conor vs nate. Door 2 is holm vs tate.....you and pretty much 99% of this forum would watch Conor vs Nate. If they say otherwise they are lying.

And that is the exact reason it is the main and the face of the ppv. 

If people who want everything to be fair were to run the ufc....there would be no ufc.

If 99 % of people on this forum would rather watch the Holm fight if they had to choose.....then that would be the main event...


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

It's going to be weird to see McGregor on the scale not looking like Skeletor for once.

I'm interested to see how he looks and performance at this weight. 

Very excited for this fight. I didn't think they would do it when we were all predicted RDA pulling out a few weeks ago.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

amoosenamedhank said:


> It's going to be weird to see McGregor on the scale not looking like Skeletor for once.
> 
> I'm interested to see how he looks and performance at this weight.
> 
> Very excited for this fight. I didn't think they would do it when we were all predicted RDA pulling out a few weeks ago.


According to Helwani Nate almost hot the fight over RDA in the first place. UFC wanted nate conor but decided to do RDA right away. Which is funny because people here say Nate isnt a draw.

Im excited for the weight as well. I expect Conor to be better at this weight and his speed will show even more. Nate isnt a guy to use his size other than reach.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I get what you are saying. People feel UFC doesnt treat everyone fair and doesnt promote the women.
> 
> But if you couldnt get the ppv and came home and could watch 1 fight. Behind door 1 is conor vs nate. Door 2 is holm vs tate.....you and pretty much 99% of this forum would watch Conor vs Nate. If they say otherwise they are lying.
> 
> ...


But you are saying is that popularity should decide the Main Event, even if there is a significantly more important title fight on the card.

There has been cards in the past where there has been a more interesting fight on the card than the title fight, but they have not been promoted to main event, so why should this?

What if, somewhere down the line Conor has title defence against a 'John Fitch' type fighter. Should he not be the main event because the UFC finally managed to book GSP v Silva, in GSP's return match on the same card?

Theres all kinds of reasons why title fights should take precedent over non title fights. The main reason being that the UFC want to be considered legit and have worked very hard to be considered legit, even going to the extent of screwing the fighters sponsorships so they can say 'Hey look, we are legit because we are sponsored by a Legit sports company'. To a lesser extent its about respect, champions deserve respect, they've clawed their way to the top and deserve to be in the main event. Holly Holm deserves that ME slot now that Conor - RDA is not going ahead. The card still sells just as well with Conor - Nate in the Co-ME.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I get what you are saying. People feel UFC doesnt treat everyone fair and doesnt promote the women.
> 
> But if you couldnt get the ppv and came home and could watch 1 fight. Behind door 1 is conor vs nate. Door 2 is holm vs tate.....you and pretty much 99% of this forum would watch Conor vs Nate. If they say otherwise they are lying.
> 
> ...


Honestly it would be disastrous putting Holm vs Tate as the main event. Thousands of casual fans who are watching this card at home or at a bar will tune out after the McGregor fight. Having Tate/Holm as the co main ensures all the fans tuning in to see Conor will also see that fight, if they swapped them yourr probably gonna cut the audience for the women's title fight in half. It's sad.


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## Andrus (Oct 18, 2011)

They should market this late replacement like this:


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

At this current time, Conor McGregor will be the main event, regardless if the grounds are on popularity vs politics vs gender equality vs all black lives matter. This was a Conor card from the start. There are big name fighters, there are household name fighters, and then there's the Conor McGregor show who exists in his own stratosphere. No matter who got added or subtracted, Conor was going to be top bill, because Conor's name alone outsells everyone else on the card combined, "at this time." Not saying it's right or moral, but it is what it is. This is a money game at the end of the day, and Conor is the biggest pot of gold.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I get what you are saying. People feel UFC doesnt treat everyone fair and doesnt promote the women.
> 
> But if you couldnt get the ppv and came home and could watch 1 fight. Behind door 1 is conor vs nate. Door 2 is holm vs tate.....you and pretty much 99% of this forum would watch Conor vs Nate. If they say otherwise they are lying.
> 
> ...





Spite said:


> But you are saying is that popularity should decide the Main Event, even if there is a significantly more important title fight on the card.
> 
> There has been cards in the past where there has been a more interesting fight on the card than the title fight, but they have not been promoted to main event, so why should this?
> 
> ...


I'm not sure how it is possible, but I somehow agree with both of these posts. I am very conflicted, you see.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Conor is the biggest ppv buy in the UFC today. Why on earth would he be a co main? If they were going to do that they would have just taken him off the card and watched hilm tate get 100k buys.

They are promoting it like a big fight. That costs big money. 

People bought tickets for Conor. He stays as the main event. His fight is 5 rounds. The girls get to be on a huge card....and taaa daa.....everyone shoukd be happy.....other than the feminists..


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Is Conor a leg kick guy though? He doesn't win by breaking you down with kicks. He keeps u moving and defending with his kicks and throws wild stuff out there. But either way low kicks won't beat Diaz....people have targeted his front leg his hole career.
> 
> As for other kicks I do feel like Nate's distance control will help his cause a bunch. He is very good at judging distance....he has too as he isn't explosive or fast. Conor can chance guys like Mendes and Siver down and kick them. Nate is going to stand right there and hit you or move out of range with some footwork. No guy Conor has fought had the ability to stand there and hit him with hands from range. They were most all short, limited footwork, won't hit you in the pocket sort of fighters. Ones who would run away from strikes rather than slip/move just out of range....while returning a 1-2.
> 
> ...


He's not a low kick guy but he loves the oblique kick, and I don't see why he wouldn't go after that lead leg with something else, maybe not the Aldo style leg kick, but its definitely a weakness of Nate that I feel Conor will exploit. 
Nates last fight vs MJ we got to see his real skills against a guy who had limited skills but very good work ethic, mentality and bravery etc, but Nate showed him up, and MJ also made Nate look very good because he just kept walking into that 1-2. I don't think Nate can catch Conor with that because he will stay behind his kicks and he will looks for punches to the body, his head is not going to be there like MJ's was. 
Its an intriguing fight, but Nate is going to have to come with something major in terms of gameplan. The reason I feel Nick did so well against Silva was he trained for over a month with Joe Schilling who broke AS down well and taught Nik how to avoid his various attacks which he did very well. I don't think Nate has the time now to put together such a gameplan



gazh said:


> I thought the 5 round thing was a UFC thing and nothing to do with the commissions?
> 
> :confused02:


I know for sure sometimes the commission sets the rounds, I don't know if its in every case. Chael was recently bitching about how the Oregan commission forced his shitty amateur event to make their title fights 5 rounds instead of 3 despite Chaels argument they couldnt train full time and were only amateur guys not capable of going 5 rounds


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> According to Helwani Nate almost hot the fight over RDA in the first place. UFC wanted nate conor but decided to do RDA right away. Which is funny because people here say Nate isnt a draw.
> 
> Im excited for the weight as well. I expect Conor to be better at this weight and his speed will show even more. Nate isnt a guy to use his size other than reach.


I was trying to remember who I was talking with... it was you haha

I honestly didn't think they'd do the fight but you were right. Now we both benefit.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> I don't even know why I bother discussing things with you sometimes.
> 
> You've gone from saying I wanted the UFC to change the rules to allow a co-main non title to have 5 rounds, whilst condemning the UFC at the same time for changing the rules.
> 
> ...


Okay, then we'll ask you instead of assuming.

Do you want this fight to be a 5 round fight? 

If yes, the UFC would have to change their current "rules" (your word) in making a non main event non title fight a 5 rounder.

If no, then as the question states, it's a 5 round fight.



The commission allow 5 round fights. It's the UFCs choice. The commission would say yes to anything the UFC wanted at 5 rounds. 

It's simple enough really. You don't want the UFC to change the rules, but if you want a 5 round co main event without the belt on the line then you DO want the UFC to change the rules. If you DON'T want it to be a 5 round fight, I really have to ask your reasoning behind that.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Okay, then we'll ask you instead of assuming.
> 
> Do you want this fight to be a 5 round fight?
> 
> ...


"We'll ask you"? Who's we? Have you got a spit personality?

And here you go again with your black and whites and caps lock.

Yes, 5 rounds would be great. Theres lots of fights where I've thought 5 rounds would have been better than 3. Does that mean I want the UFC to change the rules? No, unless it was to set a precedent going forward where fights could be predetermined as 3 or 5. I actually think both co and main should be 5 rounders. But would I want the rules to be changed just because Conor McGregor is fighting? No, would I fúck.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

You know what, I don't care about belts or logic or any of that stuff any more either after watching this press conference - Conor vs Nick Diaz next please!


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> "We'll ask you"? Who's we? Have you got a spit personality?
> 
> And here you go again with your black and whites and caps lock.
> 
> Yes, 5 rounds would be great. Theres lots of fights where I've thought 5 rounds would have been better than 3. Does that mean I want the UFC to change the rules? No, unless it was to set a precedent going forward where fights could be predetermined as 3 or 5. I actually think both co and main should be 5 rounders. But would I want the rules to be changed just because Conor McGregor is fighting? No, would I fúck.


Not you're being pedantic with speech.

So to summarize, you think the right course of action here is for the UFC to follow their standard protocol to the line....which would mean Holly Holm Vs Miesha Tate at 5 rounds in the main event, and Conor McGregor Vs Nate Diaz at 3 rounds in the co main event (The way the UFC typically runs every event).


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Not you're being pedantic with speech.
> 
> So to summarize, you think the right course of action here is for the UFC to follow their standard protocol to the line....which would mean Holly Holm Vs Miesha Tate at 5 rounds in the main event, and Conor McGregor Vs Nate Diaz at 3 rounds in the co main event (The way the UFC typically runs every event).


Finally, you've got it. You could have arrived at that conclusion by reading my earlier posts where I explicitly stated this.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> Finally, you've got it. You could have arrived at that conclusion by reading my earlier posts where I explicitly stated this.


Your way, the fight is 3 rounds. 

UFC's way, the fight is 5 rounds.


UFC's way > Spites way.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Your way, the fight is 3 rounds.
> 
> UFC's way, the fight is 5 rounds.
> 
> ...


Integrity of the sport - 

Spites way > UFC's way


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> Integrity of the sport -
> 
> Spites way > UFC's way


Yeah, I'm UFC is going down the well now that Conor is headlining a PPV he was originally supposed to headline. Dada will be fighting Conor before you know it.

I like fights. A 3 round fight for Conor McGregor, the current featherweight champion, is absolute complete and utter bollocks.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Spite said:


> Integrity of the sport -
> 
> Spites way > UFC's way


The only problem with your argument is that the sport has no integrity in the first place! It never has really. Its the DW show he does what he wants, and fuc*s everyone who stands in his way. Most of the roster is on the juice and the two guys who may have the biggest PPV ever in the sports history just spent half an hour calling eachother motherf***ers. Hoping for such integrities is but a futile exercise!


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Yeah, I'm UFC is going down the well now that Conor is headlining a PPV he was originally supposed to headline. Dada will be fighting Conor before you know it.
> 
> I like fights. A 3 round fight for Conor McGregor, the current featherweight champion, is absolute complete and utter bollocks.


Who said anything about the UFC going down the drain? You did not me.

Is Conor involved in a Championship bout? No

Do non title fights get the main event over a title fight? No, it has never happened.

Are non title co-main events 3 rounders? Yes.

I don't see why anything should be changed just because Conor is a big draw. It's called selling out.

The argument is meaningless anyway. UFC are having Conor - Nate in a 5 round main event. 

Thats just what you want. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

DonRifle said:


> The only problem with your argument is that the sport has no integrity in the first place! It never has really. Its the DW show he does what he wants, and fuc*s everyone who stands in his way. Most of the roster is on the juice and the two guys who may have the biggest PPV ever in the sports history just spent half an hour calling eachother motherf***ers. Hoping for such integrities is but a futile exercise!


Ehhh, I'm 50 / 50 there. MMA was rarely for the most mature people in the world haha, but for me the integrity comes from the fight and proving who is the best. 

I do get Spite's point. I just posted in that Ali Act thread the abysmal things Nate Quarry wants to do which would tarnish the UFC belts. But at the end of the day, Conor is a champion. He's fighting in this crazy fight and is the biggest name in the sport. Spite's being dramatic in acting like this tranished all that is good and holy, but I would agree if I felt like it actually did hurt the UFC belt.

I feel like this makes sense in every way and I don't reckon it does anything at all to hinder the prestige of the woman's Bantamweight title. If the roles were reversed, we get a large negative, this way I only see positives.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> The only problem with your argument is that the sport has no integrity in the first place! It never has really. Its the DW show he does what he wants, and fuc*s everyone who stands in his way. Most of the roster is on the juice and the two guys who may have the biggest PPV ever in the sports history just spent half an hour calling eachother motherf***ers. Hoping for such integrities is but a futile exercise!


You're kind of right in some respects. But that doesn't mean the spirit of the event should be sold out. But it has.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> Who said anything about the UFC going down the drain? You did not me.
> 
> Is Conor involved in a Championship bout? No
> 
> ...


What's with your pedanticness tonight? Down the drain being "It's shite now". The UFC is hardly could to lose all integrity and become shite and a waste of time because of this situation.

To call the UFC "sell outs" over any of this is being dramatic. It's the PPV Conor McGregor build and sold. He's the main event here.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> What's with your pedanticness tonight? Down the drain being "It's shite now". The UFC is hardly could to lose all integrity and become shite and a waste of time because of this situation.
> 
> To call the UFC "sell outs" over any of this is being dramatic. It's the PPV Conor McGregor build and sold. He's the main event here.


The UFC definitely wouldn't lose integrity if they had the fight as co. It would also show that they had balls and resolve.

How am I being pedantic by thinking Holm - Tate should be main. The very definition of pedantic is being caught in minor detail. Since when has the integrity of championship fight been a minor detail.

Don't get me wrong. I agree Conor has sold this card, and props to him for taking the Nate fight... hes probably the only guy in the UFC that would have moved up a weight class to save the card, minus Anderson Silva.

I also recognise that most people want to see a 5 rounder with Nate and understand why.

The UFC has became extremely successful with its format. So why change it for one fight, for the sake of one fighter. UFC brass should hold firm and enforce current protocol or change it permanently if they feel it is the right move. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The UFC want to give the fans what the fans want, but at the same time they want to be viewed as a legitimate competition, to be viewed as a legitimate competition you must enforce the rules or you look weak.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> The UFC definitely wouldn't lose integrity if they had the fight as co. It would also show that they had balls and resolve.
> 
> How am I being pedantic by thinking Holm - Tate should be main. The very definition of pedantic is being caught in minor detail. Since when has the integrity of championship fight been a minor detail.
> 
> ...


They aren't losing integrity anyways. You are the only one really feeling this (of course there are some others, but how many of those lads do you think want Conor to win? :laugh

Pedantic was only in relation to calling me out on things like speaking about yourself in two people "You coming with us to the shop?, common Glaswegian thing which you most likely know" or on my wording of down the drain. If anything, you SHOULD be pedantic about the other things, we're talking about them haha

If I felt like this was a wormhole, I'd be annoyed about it. Same with this "You talk, you get title shots" theory people have. But really, I don't think everything is changing and shifting for one person. You mentioned before I think that guys are bigger than Mighty Mouse that fight before him. Are they really a bigger draw than a UFC title fight though? Conor Vs Dennis Siver probably was a bit bigger of a draw, but it could also have been on a free card too. I don't think it swallowed up the Mighty Mouse main event by any means. Conor Vs Nate absolutely swallows up Miesha and Holly, and I don't see anyone else on the roster even being close to being able to do that so yeah, I get what you mean. If this was something that shifts the landscape of everything, I'd hate it too. I'm the number one UFC structure fan :laugh: but I don't see this really ever happening outside of superfights again, and even at that there arent enough big drawing superfights without belts. So I think it's alright for this card to put the man who sold it, headlined it and put it on the map to continue to do so regardless of his opponent ruining the fight.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> They aren't losing integrity anyways. You are the only one really feeling this (of course there are some others, but how many of those lads do you think want Conor to win? :laugh
> 
> Pedantic was only in relation to calling me out on things like speaking about yourself in two people "You coming with us to the shop?, common Glaswegian thing which you most likely know" or on my wording of down the drain. If anything, you SHOULD be pedantic about the other things, we're talking about them haha
> 
> If I felt like this was a wormhole, I'd be annoyed about it. Same with this "You talk, you get title shots" theory people have. But really, I don't think everything is changing and shifting for one person. You mentioned before I think that guys are bigger than Mighty Mouse that fight before him. Are they really a bigger draw than a UFC title fight though? Conor Vs Dennis Siver probably was a bit bigger of a draw, but it could also have been on a free card too. I don't think it swallowed up the Mighty Mouse main event by any means. Conor Vs Nate absolutely swallows up Miesha and Holly, and I don't see anyone else on the roster even being close to being able to do that so yeah, I get what you mean. If this was something that shifts the landscape of everything, I'd hate it too. I'm the number one UFC structure fan :laugh: but I don't see this really ever happening outside of superfights again, and even at that there arent enough big drawing superfights without belts. So I think it's alright for this card to put the man who sold it, headlined it and put it on the map to continue to do so regardless of his opponent ruining the fight.


This is what I'm getting at though. No one fight should be seen as more important than a title fight. Conor v Nate is certainly not more important that Holm v Tate, yes its a bigger draw, but besides from being an awesome fight it hold very little in terms of importance to the LW or WW divisions and none what-so-ever to the FW division.

It's nothing more than glorified exhibition fight that has been set up to save the card.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Spite said:


> This is what I'm getting at though. No one fight should be seen as more important than a title fight. Conor v Nate is certainly not more important that Holm v Tate, yes its a bigger draw, but besides from being an awesome fight it hold very little in terms of importance to the LW or WW divisions and none what-so-ever to the FW division.
> 
> It's nothing more than glorified exhibition fight that has been set up to save the card.


In this case it might damage Conor's future drawing power. Right now he draws as big as he draws because he's undefeated in the UFC and whopping guys left and right. If he starts losing, a solid portion of that casual crowed might stop being interested, and he might stop selling as big as he is, and that might damage his future ability to say, get a title shot with RDA. He's able to do that kind of stuff because he has a lot of power in negotiations right now. Once he starts losing, that power goes away. 

I mean, you aren't wrong and I don't disagree. But, this does have implications in the 155 belt, at least on some level. How many would want to see Conor vs. a guy who beat Diaz (RDA), if Diaz beats him? I just mean from a "superfight" point of view, this fight very well might have some consequences, and it is a risky fight for Conor right now and in turn a risky fight in regards to us getting that 155 super fight.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

M.C said:


> In this case it might damage Conor's future drawing power. Right now he draws as big as he draws because he's undefeated in the UFC and whopping guys left and right. If he starts losing, a solid portion of that casual crowed might stop being interested, and he might stop selling as big as he is, and that might damage his future ability to say, get a title shot with RDA. He's able to do that kind of stuff because he has a lot of power in negotiations right now. Once he starts losing, that power goes away.
> 
> I mean, you aren't wrong and I don't disagree. But, this does have implications in the 155 belt, at least on some level. How many would want to see Conor vs. a guy who beat Diaz (RDA), if Diaz beats him? I just mean from a "superfight" point of view, this fight very well might have some consequences, and it is a risky fight for Conor right now and in turn a risky fight in regards to us getting that 155 super fight.


Any fight is risky when a title shot is on the line. As I said in a different thread, the Cerrone fight is way more risky than Diaz, a lose against Diaz is salvageable because the UFC can spin the weight difference. They can't do that against Cerrone who is not only fighting fit but can make 155. Also Cerrone recently got destroyed against RDA, I really can't see how they could make Conor - RDA with a loss to Cerrone.

Beside, personally I think Diaz will stand with Conor when he should take it to the ground. Got a felling Diaz is going to be in deep shit when he realises that Conors power translates well up the divisions.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

I don't care about titles or weight in this one. Conor/Diaz is a fight for the fans, and I ******* love it.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

amoosenamedhank said:


> This is how combat sports work. It has always and will also be a promotion first sporting event. Unless they are doing elimination style tournaments, it will never work like other sports.
> 
> The sooner that is accepted, the easier this will all be to understand.


I accept things have changed, but it doesn't mean I must like it and hide my opinion.



jonnyg4508 said:


> Oh stop. Really you are going to be this guy?
> 
> Who wabts Conor/Nate to be 3 rounds?
> 
> ...


I fvcking care about the order and I am not alone. I doubt they can't make Conor vs Diaz a 5 rounder if they want it.

"Don't be that guy", bla, bla, what the hell that even mean?
Is that really that too much to ask champions to be headlining a fvcking event as aways? Is that too odd for you?



edlavis88 said:


> Honestly it would be disastrous putting Holm vs Tate as the main event. Thousands of *casual fans* who are watching this card at home or at a bar will tune out after the McGregor fight.


Exactly. We must surrender to casual fans money. We should have some people here to man up and say they are casuals as well, since there's no shame in that, but they claim they are diehard fans of the "sport", but hype and propaganda comes first...


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> I accept things have changed, but it doesn't mean I must like it and hide my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Any true fan of the sport would want it to grow and be successful, and casuals are a big part of that happening. As are big stars and big promotion.

When a video game publisher makes a good game, I want them to make as much money as humanly possible. If that means huge marketing and promotion, fantastic. If a production team releases a stellar movie, I want the main star paid well, I want the movie to get great reviews, I want big money to fly in that direction and I want as many people as humanly possible to watch and enjoy it, so that the director and company makes enough money to continue on making good movies, or a sequel, or whatever. In the case of MMA, I love the sport and want it to grow, I want the top guys to get paid right, I want the right guys promoted like crazy, I want those guys paid big and I want as many casuals as humanly possible to watch and get into the sport. If that means throwing Conor on the main event even though it's not a title shot, then so be it. 

Only negative, pessimistic people don't want "more" people into something they like, only those type of people don't want growth. If you're truly a fan of something, you will want all the money and growth and promotion it can get, so that it continues on strong and more people can enjoy it with you. If you're a true fan, you will want big stars, you will want all eyes on the sport, and if someone comes along and sets the spot on fire, you will enjoy it. Take Ronda for example, I can't stand that woman, but I sure in the hell appreciate the spotlight she put on the sport. If she was main eventing a non-title fight with a different title fight on the line, and it was originally "her" card, I'd be all for it. She sold that card, she should main event, simple enough. I'm all for everyone doing what they can to blow the lid off the place, I love it. I love what Conor is doing, I love the big fights, the media, the promotion, I enjoy every second of it and it's great for the sport. 

If that makes me a "casual" fan, then I'm cool with that. I guess I'm casual. :dunno:


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> I accept things have changed, but it doesn't mean I must like it and hide my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When the biggest star the ufc has ever seen is on the card.....then yes putting a womens title fight.....or most any fight above it is odd.

No you arent alone....you are part of maybe the 3% of fans who care about it. You are whining that holly holm and meisha tate isnt headlining over the ufc biggest seller. Just think about how hilarious that is.

Lifes not candy covered roses and flower smelling farts.

The sad thing here is Holm probably has no problem with this and is happy to be on such a big card while a few forum posters whine and cry that UFC should do whats not as good for business...


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

So ******* weird seeing UFC articles on the front page of the BBC Sport site....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/35657984

Conor is going to destroy Nate. He's going to be quicker, more accurate, and too much for Nate. Cannot wait to see it.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Danm2501 said:


> So ******* weird seeing UFC articles on the front page of the BBC Sport site....
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/35657984
> 
> Conor is going to destroy Nate. He's going to be quicker, more accurate, and too much for Nate. Cannot wait to see it.


Kind of a crap article though.


----------



## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

HexRei said:


> Kind of a crap article though.


BBC just report the facts, don't expect opinions or anything unless one of their columnists are writing about it.

But the fact that it is even there, on front page of BBC Sport is huge, especially so for a press conference.

BBC has like 40 million unique hits a month, its articles are shared more than 50% more than its nearest rival.

The recent news that BBC will be covering more UFC will undoubtedly raise awareness and bring new fans in.


----------



## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Spite said:


> BBC just report the facts, don't expect opinions or anything unless one of their columnists are writing about it.
> 
> But the fact that it is even there, on front page of BBC Sport is huge, especially so for a press conference.
> 
> ...


MMA Forum should up its game too! As the sport expands so should the site and find some ways to bring in more users instead of the ever declining numbers...
Interactive live content, whoever owns this place needs to start spending some $$$$$


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> MMA Forum should up its game too! As the sport expands so should the site and find some ways to bring in more users instead of the ever declining numbers...
> Interactive live content, whoever owns this place needs to start spending some $$$$$


I agree.

I honestly think the best way to do it, is by writing unique articles and pushing hard on twitter.

Theres no point spending money to advertise, because when people come here, theres nothing to keep them here.

The community here is tight nit, which is why us core of posters are still here.

VS should starting paying people for articles, even a few quid would be enough for people to give it crack, its what all other MMA sites do. Guys like Reptile and Clyde write stuff for other sites, but why would they give their work away for free?

Investment is needed for content, once the content is there we have a base to increase board members.

I would also like to see current members make more of an effort with new posters and make them feel welcome by actually replying to their posts rather than ignore them - and I know I'm guilty of this too, but I'm going to make an effort from now on.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Yes excellent point. Pay the guys to write top notch content for mma forum, keep them here and then lets get social media to spread the articles it will bring in new members. 
I would do the podcast for every event, and if a couple of people would get their finger out and join me on the podcast we could do it regular once a week and i bet it would grow. I got over 600 listeners the last one i did

Whoever needs to make the call to get Reptilian paid (and maybe Clyde if he promises to have less then 5 cans before writing) make the call!


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

DonRifle said:


> and maybe Clyde if he promises to have less then 5 cans before writing


No deal.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

M.C said:


> Any *true fan of the sport* would want it to grow and be successful, and casuals are a big part of that happening. As are big stars and big promotion.
> 
> When a video game publisher makes a good game, I want them to make as much money as humanly possible. If that means huge marketing and promotion, fantastic. If a production team releases a stellar movie, I want the main star paid well, I want the movie to get great reviews, I want big money to fly in that direction and I want as many people as humanly possible to watch and enjoy it, so that the director and company makes enough money to continue on making good movies, or a sequel, or whatever. In the case of MMA, I love the sport and want it to grow, I want the top guys to get paid right, I want the right guys promoted like crazy, I want those guys paid big and I want as many casuals as humanly possible to watch and get into the sport. If that means throwing Conor on the main event even though it's not a title shot, then so be it.
> 
> ...


I am a fan of the sport, not a fan of a show made for casuals. I don't care if it's going to grow. It could be 80% smaller and we could still have great fights and fighters making good money, specially ifvstill allowed to have their sponsors. 

I don't care how much money Zuffa is making and I find funny people like you always bring this is so important. Wait, I get, endless money comes first.

And LOL as Ronda made something for the sport and "deserved" anything. She is a judo fighter beating bums until got stopped.

Now she was stopped by Holly Holm, a champion, defending her belt, and Holly Holm will co-main where another guy who also won a lot of fights against bums is making a show fight against an out of shape uninterest brawler that fights every 2 years and lost every important fight that was undeservedly given to him.

It is a sport and the promotion is not focused on results,mit is focus on drama and trash talk to the point people don't care who will win a MMA fight or to the point people still praise Bisping for winning the trash talk against Rockhold even after he was finished with one hand.

Ah, and if video game is awesome, I don't care how much money his developer will make. I hope it pays his bills and if the game is good I'll continue to play it even when people lose interest in it. 

The sport has morfed into this "show", I get it and will have to accept it, just don't speak about "true fans of the sport" when you are confused what sports mean.




jonnyg4508 said:


> When the biggest star the ufc has ever seen is on the card.....then yes putting a womens title fight.....or most any fight above it is odd.
> 
> No you arent alone....you are part of maybe the 3% of fans who care about it. You are whining that holly holm and meisha tate isnt headlining over the ufc biggest seller. Just think about how hilarious that is.
> 
> ...


You can take as many percentage stats from your @ss as you please.
I think it is ridiculous, and Conor being the biggest seller won't affect business if he is going to co-main. Actually, it would be better for you and the 97% of other people you claim don't care about Holm, you and them could go to bed earlier after watching Conor's performance.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Ronda Rousey made a career beating bums....and I'm really pissed off that the UFC isn't putting Holly Holm Vs that bum who got beat twice as the main event!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Holly has a belt and she is putting it on the line, but I get "belts doesn't matter" because now you've been told so by Conor McGregor...


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> Holly has a belt and she is putting it on the line, but I get "belts doesn't matter" because now you've been told so by Conor McGregor...


To be fair, I do find it pretty embarrassing when people just quote Conor's lines and change their "outlook on MMA" to Conor's. Conor doesn't mean most of what he says. That guy completely covets that belt he has, as he should. But you're going to get those kind of sheep fans who will be like "Fk the belts, Ultimate Fighting Conor!".


----------



## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> To be fair, I do find it pretty embarrassing when people just quote Conor's lines and change their "outlook on MMA" to Conor's. Conor doesn't mean most of what he says. That guy completely covets that belt he has, as he should. But you're going to get those kind of sheep fans who will be like "Fk the belts, Ultimate Fighting Conor!".


Going back to yesterdays discussion, Sportsman and I (the 3% :laugh kind of feel that the only reason Holm - Tate has not promoted to the main event is because its become the Conor McGregor show.


----------



## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> You can take as many percentage stats from your @ss as you please.


I think about 83% of the time someone puts a percentage value on something, they are pulling it out of their ass.


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Spite said:


> Going back to yesterdays discussion, Sportsman and I (the 3% :laugh kind of feel that the only reason Holm - Tate has not promoted to the main event is because its become the Conor McGregor show.


MMA has become the Conor McGregor show. If I am honest, im quite enjoying it. I know it wont last forever. But it has created so much buzz that for now, im good with it. Thats what makes me vexed about the Holm title fight. Conor is getting everything right now and good on him. But i always assumed there was a line somewhere. A line at which point the UFC would say, ok its not about the money and popularity now. And for me, when we are talking belts, dont be f*ucking around devaluing them with stupid petty shit.

I dont buy that the UFC cant have Conor as a co-main and 5 rounds. If somebody has anything to shed some light, please do.


----------



## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> MMA has become the Conor McGregor show. If I am honest, im quite enjoying it. I know it wont last forever. But it has created so much buzz that for now, im good with it. Thats what makes me vexed about the Holm title fight. Conor is getting everything right now and good on him. But i always assumed there was a line somewhere. A line at which point the UFC would say, ok its not about the money and popularity now. And for me, when we are talking belts, dont be f*ucking around devaluing them with stupid petty shit.
> 
> I dont buy that the UFC cant have Conor as a co-main and 5 rounds. If somebody has anything to shed some light, please do.


Welcome to the 4.5% brother.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> Going back to yesterdays discussion, Sportsman and I (the 3% :laugh kind of feel that the only reason Holm - Tate has not promoted to the main event is because its become the Conor McGregor show.


If you remember from the discussion, I said you were really the only guy who felt like that, and the rest of them are Sportsman, Oldfan etc. etc.

The reason I'd talk to you about it over them is because their opinion is that Conor fought no one worth while, Conor only beat Mendes on short notice, Conor was lucky against Aldo, Conor is a bitch for fighting Nate, Conor shouldnt be main event.


Sooj, the reason I brought up the rounds is because Spite said he didn't like that the UFC was changing the rules and making it a main event. To make it a 5 round co main event, the UFC would have had to change the rules for that as well, so essentially the only way to appease Spite would have been to make it a 3 round fight.


----------



## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> If you remember from the discussion, I said you were really the only guy who felt like that, and the rest of them are Sportsman, Oldfan etc. etc.
> 
> The reason I'd talk to you about it over them is because their opinion is that Conor fought no one worth while, Conor only beat Mendes on short notice, Conor was lucky against Aldo, Conor is a bitch for fighting Nate, Conor shouldnt be main event.
> 
> ...


You'll also remember from yesterday that I said I would like it to be a 5 round fight, and I think all co's should be 5 rounds anyway.

What I said was that I wouldn't want the UFC to change the rules to appease Conor. I also said that id they did change the rule then it should stay that way. So as far as I'm concerned, change the rules, but keep them that way.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> You'll also remember from yesterday that I said I would like it to be a 5 round fight, and I think all co's should be 5 rounds anyway.
> 
> What I said was that I wouldn't want the UFC to change the rules to appease Conor. I also said that id they did change the rule then it should stay that way. So as far as I'm concerned, change the rules, but keep them that way.


I know, we went through all of this. The ideal situation for you is for no rules to be changed, and Conor fights in a 3 round fight in the co main. We don't have to bring it all up again.

All I'm saying is that a 5 round co main is changing the rules, something you condemned, so I was telling Sooj why the rounds were even brought up. Of course the UFC could make it 5 rounds in the co main.


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I know, we went through all of this. The ideal situation for you is for no rules to be changed, and Conor fights in a 3 round fight in the co main. We don't have to bring it all up again.
> 
> All I'm saying is that a 5 round co main is changing the rules, something you condemned, so I was telling Sooj why the rounds were even brought up. Of course the UFC could make it 5 rounds in the co main.


Nobody has produced any evidence that suggests the UFC cant make a co-main 5 rounds. Im not sure there's a rule to break there.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Soojooko said:


> Nobody has produced any evidence that suggests the UFC cant make a co-main 5 rounds. Im not sure there's a rule to break there.


We weren't talking PROPER rules. Just like a title fight being a main event isn't a PROPER rule.

Spite didn't want the UFC to "break the rules" by making this a main event. I was pointing out that by that logic, they can't "break the rules" by making it a 5 round fight, which Spite agreed to.


----------



## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> We weren't talking PROPER rules. Just like a title fight being a main event isn't a PROPER rule.
> 
> Spite didn't want the UFC to "break the rules" by making this a main event. I was pointing out that by that logic, they can't "break the rules" by making it a 5 round fight, which Spite agreed to.


As far as I'm aware the commission make the rules for number of rounds, but I could be wrong and if I am wrong I sit corrected.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> Nobody has produced any evidence that suggests the UFC cant make a co-main 5 rounds. Im not sure there's a rule to break there.


That isnt how it works. That is why commissions exist. UFC cant just go to an event and make the rules as to how the fight happens. They cant just change rules as they choose.

They had to go to the commission to get non title main events cleared for 5 rounds. 

Yet you need proof that theu cant just make any fight they want 5 rounds? What more proof do you need? Maybe they ask the commission and they say OK on this one....not sure. But they cant just do what they want....

This whole argument is still really ridiculous to me. If they were so caught up on title fights last ALWAYs they would have just pulled Conor off the card. Holm would have done 100k buys......then no one is happy. Not the UFC not the fans not Holm or Tate.......but hey as long as the 3% find it more legit it is good! Lol.....so crazy....so ridiculous...


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> That isnt how it works. That is why commissions exist. UFC cant just go to an event and make the rules as to how the fight happens. They cant just change rules as they choose.
> 
> They had to go to the commission to get non title main events cleared for 5 rounds.
> 
> ...


Dana said at the time that any fighter scheduled to fight 5 rounds would do so, even if the fight gets moved. Conor was scheduled to fight 5 rounds. Its all good if hes on the co-main as far as I can tell. Why is everybody assuming it *has* to be 3 rounds if its the co-main?

Nobody is saying they should pull Conor. The card will make the same money whether hes on the co-main or main. It makes no difference to them. Or the fans. The person it means the most to is Holly. So why not just let her have it and be done?


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Just to follow up on johny there, this is also a big marketing ploy FOR Holly and Miesha. EVERYONE tunes in for Conor McGregor, and you will probably catch the fights which happen before it. Conor isn't really like Kimbo or Ken or something. People tune in to watch those freak fights, then may as well stick it out to watch the main event (which is why titles should headline freakshow Bellator cards). With Conor, I really see people tuning out after he fights, especially if it's just "some girls" fighting after him.

People are going to see Holly and Miesha fight before Conor McGregor fights. That brings eyes, especially from casuals, to a champion and who knows who might become fans of these birds?

I defo get Spite's point but I feel the current set up makes the most sense and does little harm.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> Dana said at the time that any fighter scheduled to fight 5 rounds would do so, even if the fight gets moved. Conor was scheduled to fight 5 rounds. Its all good if hes on the co-main as far as I can tell. Why is everybody assuming it *has* to be 3 rounds if its the co-main?
> 
> Nobody is saying they should pull Conor. The card will make the same money whether hes on the co-main or main. It makes no difference to them. Or the fans. The person it means the most to is Holly. So why not just let her have it and be done?


Never heard fhe first part. I probably just missed it.

Yea the numbers would be similar but not quite the same. There is a reaskn Bellator puts shamroxk gracie type fights last. They could have a title and it will go behind freak matchups. The UFC does this as well as Conor as the main was more valuable than Weidman Rockhold. So while the numbers would still be good.....there is a reason why headliners main event over others with less name. 

If Conor Nate was for sure 5 rounds and the co main id have no probably and wouldnt whine the other way.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Never heard fhe first part. I probably just missed it.
> 
> Yea the numbers would be similar but not quite the same. There is a reaskn Bellator puts shamroxk gracie type fights last. They could have a title and it will go behind freak matchups. The UFC does this as well as Conor as the main was more valuable than Weidman Rockhold. So while the numbers would still be good.....there is a reason why headliners main event over others with less name.
> 
> If Conor Nate was for sure 5 rounds and the co main id have no probably and wouldnt whine the other way.


In this interview:-
http://www.mmaweekly.com/dana-white...t-scenarios-addresses-mayhem-vs-bisping-fight
Dana says: “Guys who have bout agreements for 5 round fights, will fight five round fights.”. Hes talking in the context of 3 round fights getting moved, but still, the quote is pretty clear.

Ok, to clarify, I absolutely want the Conor fight to be 5 rounds. If it was actually the case that it had to be the main event to be 5 rounds, then grudgingly I would concede theres an argument. But I dont believe the reason has anything to do with rules or the commission. They are doing it because its Conor. Thats what I think.

I just want Holly to get her dues. She crushed the biggest star in the universe. Shes 34. Let her have some limelight while she can.


----------



## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Soojooko said:


> In this interview:-
> http://www.mmaweekly.com/dana-white...t-scenarios-addresses-mayhem-vs-bisping-fight
> Dana says: “Guys who have bout agreements for 5 round fights, will fight five round fights.”. Hes talking in the context of 3 round fights getting moved, but still, the quote is pretty clear.
> 
> ...


I think many would tune out after Diaz/Conor in the co-main and just ignore Holm.

This way she and Tate get even more exposure IMO. Everyone will be tuning in for Tate/Holm getting warmed up for the Conor/Diaz main event.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

^Same. I think this IS giving Holly her limelight.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> I think many would tune out after Diaz/Conor in the co-main and just ignore Holm.
> 
> This way she and Tate get even more exposure IMO. Everyone will be tuning in for Tate/Holm getting warmed up for the Conor/Diaz main event.


Which do you think Holly would prefer? Exposure or main event of the evening?


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Soojooko said:


> Which do you think Holly would prefer? Exposure or main event of the evening?


I honestly think she couldn't really care less. She has a world title fight coming up. Where she is on the card is probably the last thing she's worrying about.

A title shot probably means more to Roxanne Modaferi than it does Miesha Tate but you don't make these decisions out of compassion.


----------



## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

It is madness though, look at this without green tinted glasses.

1. Featherweight champion fights an exhibition bout two weightclasses above his usual class against a borderline top-10 fighter.

2. World title fight.

As De La Soul said... Stakes is High.


----------



## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I honestly think she couldn't really care less. She has a world title fight coming up. Where she is on the card is probably the last thing she's worrying about.
> 
> A title shot probably means more to Roxanne Modaferi than it does Miesha Tate but you don't make these decisions out of compassion.


I agree. If Holly was driven by money, waiting on Ronda is the wiser choice (for a guaranteed big payout).


----------



## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

I don't see how it tunes Holy - Tate out at all. It's going to be a good fight, it might even be FOTN. Anyone who tunes out a main event title match, against the woman who stopped the 'female Mike Tyson' can't even call themselves a casual fan in my book.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> I don't see how it tunes Holy - Tate out at all. It's going to be a good fight, it might even be FOTN. Anyone who tunes out a main event title match, against the woman who stopped the 'female Mike Tyson' can't even call themselves a casual fan in my book.


The idea is to put on a fight that people will exclusively watch, but sucker them into watching other fights and hope that grips them. It's a marketing ploy to CREATE casual cans as opposed to being FOR the casual fans you know?


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> I am a fan of the sport, not a fan of a show made for casuals. I don't care if it's going to grow. It could be 80% smaller and we could still have great fights and fighters making good money, specially ifvstill allowed to have their sponsors.
> 
> I don't care how much money Zuffa is making and I find funny people like you always bring this is so important. Wait, I get, endless money comes first.
> 
> ...


So you don't care at all about wanting the people giving you the content you enjoy to make a lot of money, expand, grow, etc? You just want the content, that's it, who cares what happens to them? That's basically what you just said, you have no interest in seeing them succeed and you don't care about any of that so long as you get your fights. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course, but your words are "I don't care to see them grow, I don't care about them making money". You just want your fights, and everything else involved you don't care about.

At least you're honest about your selfish "me me me, I I I" views on the sport, I can respect that.


----------



## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> The idea is to put on a fight that people will exclusively watch, but sucker them into watching other fights and hope that grips them. It's a marketing ploy to CREATE casual cans as opposed to being FOR the casual fans you know?


If a casual fan has no intention of watching a title fight in the main event and is only watching McGregor v A guy they've never heard of, then they have no intention of watching any of the other fights leading up to McGregor.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> If a casual fan has no intention of watching a title fight in the main event and is only watching McGregor v A guy they've never heard of, then they have no intention of watching any of the other fights leading up to McGregor.


It's on at 6am. If you get a couple of beers in, you have teleshopping or lead up fights.


----------



## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> It's on at 6am. If you get a couple of beers in, you have teleshopping or lead up fights.


Not in America it isn't. And that country has a way higher viewer-ship than the UK, plus they need to pay for it.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> Not in America it isn't. And that country has a way higher viewer-ship than the UK, plus they need to pay for it.


Well if you're paying for it then damn right you'll be watching the fights before it.

After Conor, people will either be celebrating or commiserating. Thats why they bought the card. Holm and Miesha will be an afterthought with Conor before them.


----------



## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Soojooko said:


> Which do you think Holly would prefer? Exposure or main event of the evening?


Exposure - She's a roider. Tate ftw.


----------



## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Spite said:


> I don't see how it tunes Holy - Tate out at all. It's going to be a good fight, it might even be FOTN. Anyone who tunes out a main event title match, against the woman who stopped the 'female Mike Tyson' can't even call themselves a casual fan in my book.


I'm a harcore fan and I don't really care about WMMA. After watching McGregor/Diaz in the co-main event, I'd switch off and completely ignore Holm/Tate in the main event, get some sleep and check the results. I care about the most skilled fighters. Diaz and McGregor are infinitely more skilled than Holm/Tate - thus I really give zero fcks about their fight.


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

The entire UFC is on steroids. Except the Diaz bros.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Ape City said:


> The entire UFC is on steroids. Except the Diaz bros.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


In all seriousness though, sponsors from a company renown for steroids...You having a laugh Holly or what? I'm no mug and sure as hell ain't falling for her innocent, woman of faith act. She's abused the Peds.


----------



## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> I'm a harcore fan and I don't really care about WMMA. After watching McGregor/Diaz in the co-main event, I'd switch off and completely ignore Holm/Tate in the main event, get some sleep and check the results. I care about the most skilled fighters. Diaz and McGregor are infinitely more skilled than Holm/Tate - thus I really give zero fcks about their fight.


By that logic if Tate or Holm were on the card first, second or third you tune out anyway, or do something else while the fight is on - seeing as you give zero fúcks about the fight. So if your not watching it anyway, it makes no difference what slot on the card it is for you, so it might as well be main event, so you can get to bed half an hour earlier.


----------



## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Spite said:


> By that logic if Tate or Holm were on the card first, second or third you tune out anyway, or do something else while the fight is on - seeing as you give zero fúcks about the fight. So if your not watching it anyway, it makes no difference what slot on the card it is for you, so it might as well be main event, so you can get to bed half an hour earlier.


This isn't about me though - it's about the UFC and the success of their PPV (And Holly Holm vs. Miesha Tate). Holm/Tate will get more viewers co-maining to McGregor/Diaz than they would if they were the main event.

People go on about "integrity" and all of this, but what happened to wanting to watch the more skilled fighters in the main event? Conor and Diaz would both beat Holm/Tate with their arms tied behind their backs. Primarily, I care about skill. WMMA's skill level is a joke, let's be honest. McGregor/Diaz DESERVE to be in the main event. They are lightyears beyond both Holm and Tate.


----------



## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> She's abused the Peds.


Mothafukin P E D's


----------



## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

If we see this again...I'll cry happy tears...


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> In this interview:-
> http://www.mmaweekly.com/dana-white...t-scenarios-addresses-mayhem-vs-bisping-fight
> Dana says: “Guys who have bout agreements for 5 round fights, will fight five round fights.”. Hes talking in the context of 3 round fights getting moved, but still, the quote is pretty clear.
> 
> ...


Well if she beats Tate on a card that sees 1 mill ppv sales.....she then gets a Ro da rematch as the h3adliner.....in a huge card of her own.

Honestly...i bet she is thrilled to be on this card. Tate isnt a big time fight......Ronda rematch she will havs all the limelight and then some.


----------



## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> This isn't about me though - it's about the UFC and the success of their PPV (And Holly Holm vs. Miesha Tate). Holm/Tate will get more viewers co-maining to McGregor/Diaz than they would if they were the main event.
> 
> People go on about "integrity" and all of this, but what happened to wanting to watch the more skilled fighters in the main event? Conor and Diaz would both beat Holm/Tate with their arms tied behind their backs. Primarily, I care about skill. WMMA's skill level is a joke, let's be honest. McGregor/Diaz DESERVE to be in the main event. They are lightyears beyond both Holm and Tate.


Oh. So were choosing main events by skill now. Maybe you should have brought that up at 189 where Conor beat Mendes for a fake belt. We could have petitioned to get the 2 fighters who were more skilled and actually contesting for a real title to be moved up to the main event - poor Robbie and Rory.


----------



## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Spite said:


> Oh. So were choosing main events by skill now. Maybe you should have brought that up at 189 where Conor beat Mendes for a fake belt. We could have petitioned to get the 2 fighters who were more skilled and actually contesting for a real title to be moved up to the main event - poor Robbie and Rory.


McGregor is more skilled than both Robbie and Rory - that's why I was pulling for a Conor/Lawler WW title fight at UFC 196. McGregor KO's Lawler inside one round.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)




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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

LizaG said:


> If we see this again...I'll cry happy tears...


Probably one of my favorite submissions of all time, purely because of the early celebration.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I seem to be noticing that those that have liked Spite's comments in this thread also don't seem to be very big Conor McGregor fans. Not sure if that's relevant but...............it's relevant :laugh:


But yeah, I really am done giving a fk about what fight is where. The fights happen no matter what position they are in and as an MMA fan thats important.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

LizaG said:


> If we see this again...I'll cry happy tears...


Conors gonna win and then teabag miesha and holm and take their ppv points and paypacket


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

M.C said:


> So you don't care at all about wanting the people giving you the content you enjoy to make a lot of money, expand, grow, etc? You just want the content, that's it, who cares what happens to them? That's basically what you just said, you have no interest in seeing them succeed and you don't care about any of that so long as you get your fights. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course, but your words are "I don't care to see them grow, I don't care about them making money". You just want your fights, and everything else involved you don't care about.
> 
> At least you're honest about your selfish "me me me, I I I" views on the sport, I can respect that.


No, you just can't read or you are playing stupid, because I think you have an idea about my character by now and you know this post you wrote is a bunch of crap that doesn't relate.

Clearly your definition of success is completely different than mine.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> No, you just can't read or you are playing stupid, because I think you have an idea about my character by now and you know this post you wrote is a bunch of crap that doesn't relate.
> 
> Clearly your definition of success is completely different than mine.


I think his assessment is pretty accurate tbh :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I think his assessment is pretty accurate tbh :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


And *you* saying that believes you are helping him? SMH


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> I am a fan of the sport, not a fan of a show made for casuals. I don't care if it's going to grow. It could be 80% smaller and we could still have great fights and fighters making good money, specially ifvstill allowed to have their sponsors.
> 
> I don't care how much money Zuffa is making and I find funny people like you always bring this is so important. Wait, I get, endless money comes first.
> 
> ...


If I remember right, Invicta pays Cristiane Santos something like 40k to show and 40k to win. She gets paid Sage Notthcutt money and she's the champion of a smaller organization. That's the only reason I wish MMA would grow as a sport, so athletes could be paid more.

Looking at the UFC roster a large percentage of their fighters are 30-40 years old and many of their biggest names are on the verge of retirement. MMA fighters aren't paid enough for a career as an mma fighter to be competitive with a career in the NBA, NFL, MBA or other pro level sports. MMA as a career path probably isn't attractive to young athletes unless they really love the sport. There also isn't much in terms of job security with issues people have been having with concussions, since some young fighters with less than 5 years in MMA professionally have been having problems.

MMA could be in a crisis situation not so different from boxing if enough older fighters retire and there aren't enough quality young fighters to replace them. In a sense, growing might be MMA's only chance for survival.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Trix said:


> If I remember right, Invicta pays Cristiane Santos something like 40k to show and 40k to win. She gets paid Sage Notthcutt money and she's the champion of a smaller organization. That's the only reason I wish MMA would grow as a sport, so athletes could be paid more.
> 
> Looking at the UFC roster a large percentage of their fighters are 30-40 years old and many of their biggest names are on the verge of retirement. MMA fighters aren't paid enough for a career as an mma fighter to be competitive with a career in the NBA, NFL, MBA or other pro level sports. MMA as a career path probably isn't attractive to young athletes unless they really love the sport. There also isn't much in terms of job security with issues people have been having with concussions, since some young fighters with less than 5 years in MMA professionally have been having problems.
> 
> MMA could be in a crisis situation not so different from boxing if enough older fighters retire and there aren't enough quality young fighters to replace them. In a sense, growing might be MMA's only chance for survival.


Irregular growth and unfair growth is what is happening. We had threads around here about minimum wage and better conditions for ALL athletes in the roster. I was vocal several times about my opinion athletes should get a minimum wage and better overall conditions to train, fight and support their families, instead of seeing people asking money over the internet to afford a coach to corner them in their fights. 

Better fighters would always get more share based on their performance and sponsorship/commercials, but UFC took the other direction and took away even the ability of small athletes from taking their sponsors into the octagon or showing up in public using their gear. That's ridiculous. And now clueless people are calling me selfish. Seriously, the king of materialism of this site was calling me selfish, LOL.

I want the sport to grow in a fair way, but one guy collecting ALL the money and dictating the rules while yelling all the other athletes on the roster "are bums who earn less than his employees" is not what I would call a "growth of the sport".


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> Irregular growth and unfair growth is what is happening. We had threads around here about minimum wage and better conditions for ALL athletes in the roster. I was vocal several times about my opinion athletes should get a minimum wage and better overall conditions to train, fight and support their families, instead of seeing people asking money over the internet to afford a coach to corner them in their fights.
> 
> Better fighters would always get more share based on their performance and sponsorship/commercials, but UFC took the other direction and took away even the ability of small athletes from taking their sponsors into the octagon or showing up in public using their gear. That's ridiculous. And now clueless people are calling me selfish. Seriously, the king of materialism of this site was calling me selfish, LOL.
> 
> I want the sport to grow in a fair way, but one guy collecting ALL the money and dictating the rules while yelling all the other athletes on the roster "are bums who earn less than his employees" is not what I would call a "growth of the sport".


Is the UFC really corrupt, though?

People say the UFC doesn't pay its fighters what they deserve. But the UFC is probably the highest paying promotion. Fighters in invicta, bellator and wsof aren't paid as well as fighters in the ufc are, as far as I can tell. In many cases they're paid much worse. Either the UFC is corrupt and some other mma promotions are fair, or all mma promotions are extremely corrupt and unequal with their payscaling.

Given the way strikeforce, affliction and other mma promotions wound up filing for bankruptcy -- it might not be the UFC at all, it could just be that the costs of running a mma promotion are so expensive that its extremely difficult if not impossible to pay athletes what they deserve with the current status quo.

High expenses of running a mma promotion could come down to taxes, healthcare expenses, permits and other liabilities. It could be tax expenses and base costs of running mma promotion that are at fault for athletes not being paid what they deserve. There are some business models that are fundamentally flawed in that way where its almost impossible to turn a profit. An example of it is the video game industry where video games cost millions of dollars to produce and are so expensive that sometimes they can't afford to pay their workers the wages they've earned.

Some say the UFC is corrupt and payscaling is unfair but I don't see other promotions that are doing better in that area than the UFC is. Enough mma promotions have died and declared bankruptcy that it might (emphasis on might, btw) be accurate to say that its the standard busines model of mma promotions that is at fault.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> No, you just can't read or you are playing stupid, because I think you have an idea about my character by now and you know this post you wrote is a bunch of crap that doesn't relate.
> 
> Clearly your definition of success is completely different than mine.


These are your words:



> Ah, and if video game is awesome, I don't care how much money his developer will make. I hope it pays his bills and if the game is good I'll continue to play it even when people lose interest in it.





> I don't care if it's going to grow





> I don't care how much money Zuffa is making


You say you don't care how much money a developer makes for a product you like, that's clear as the day is long. You say you don't care if the sport grows, that's crystal clear. You say you don't care how much money the parent company who runs the largest organization ins a sport you enjoy makes, that is very clear.

It's not me playing stupid, it's your complete failure in explaining your position that made me reply how I did. Those lines are pretty cut and dry.

Yes clearly our definition of success is different, cause in my definition people are rewarded and compensated when they succeed at their job and do good business together, both the employee and the employer. And when business goes well, what they are doing grows and expands, and lets more people enjoy their work and their product, and they get more money. More fans, more money, more product - great all around.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> McGregor is more skilled than both Robbie and Rory - that's why I was pulling for a Conor/Lawler WW title fight at UFC 196. McGregor KO's Lawler inside one round.


You know, in this thread I probably come across as a McGregor hater, but I'm not, I'm a fan. I just think that some things a sacred and should remain that way.

As for your comment, I'm not sure why you think that because despite Conor McGregor being good and potentially GOAT material we have not seen a range of skills from him despite his excellent power and accuracy.

If you want to believe Conor is more skilled than Robbie and Rory then fine, maybe you've seen something in Conor that I have not picked up on. Personally I think his power translates well up the divisions. But he is not a Big LW fighting at FW anymore, he is a big LW fighting at WW and that is a big difference. Conor gets caught in fights, he's been caught by good shots before, but by guys significantly smaller than him. Some of the guys at WW will knock him out if they catch him as he's been caught in the past. Then you have his wrestling which I was going to say is unproven, but thats not true, he was held down by Mendes, a significantly smaller guy. A decent WW wrestler is going to hold him down and he's not getting back up.

I'm at the point now where I hope Diaz smashes him so he can move back down to a division where we can see where is really at. The hype around Conor at the moment is beyond Bat Shit Crazy, the silliness is off the chart. If Conor beat Diaz, I would not in slightest bit be surprised if people start calling for a Rockhold title shot, thats how daft things are becoming.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Spite said:


> I would not in slightest bit be surprised if people start calling for a Rockhold title shot, thats how daft things are becoming.


Conor via head kick inside 30 seconds! :laugh: :laugh:


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

Spite said:


> You know, in this thread I probably come across as a McGregor hater, but I'm not, I'm a fan. I just think that some things a sacred and should remain that way.
> 
> As for your comment, I'm not sure why you think that because despite Conor McGregor being good and potentially GOAT material we have not seen a range of skills from him despite his excellent power and accuracy.
> 
> ...


I'm a big fan of Conor, and what you say here makes alot of sense to me.

He actually *does* get caught quite often in his fight. People seem to count Diaz out of this fight, but I've said it before, should it go to the ground, I give Diaz a pretty good chance.

Conor will be considered as a great once he comes back from a devastating loss, depending on how he comes back.

He's walking a fine line between confidence and cockyness, and he may very well become his own worst enemy. Ask Ronda.



Now about UFC Pay, lots of people b*tch and moan, but I haven't seen much posts (and I did one, actually) about as of late, UFC pay for low level fighters have significantly increased, just compare 2013 numbers with 2015, that's not the inflation.

Of course, there's the whole reebok thing and it's hard to know how much they lose here.

But UFC does lots of promotional videos, much more than they used to, and in those videos, I have yet to see a blurred logo (countdowns and whatnots), so I take it sponsorship money is still somewhat there besides reebok.

As said above by someone else, the UFC is still the best paying organization out there, by a long shot, and I see low level fighters being paid more and more as of late.

And that is thanks to the bigger exposure, Fox, Superstars like Rousey, McGregor, Jones, the big talker that make people tune in, buy PPVs, that's how the fighters get paid, they don't get money out of thin air (except maybe Kimbo who got the first ever win by exhaustion in the history of mma, but that's another topic all together  )

Of course there is disparity between the UFC brass pay and the Young fighter on his debut, but if Zuffa makes more money, the fighters WILL (and I say this because the numbers back me up here) get paid more money too.

So it's pretty nonsensical to say that in one hand you don't care about the company's success, but on the other hand you want fighters to get paid more.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Trix said:


> Is the UFC really corrupt, though?
> 
> People say the UFC doesn't pay its fighters what they deserve. But the UFC is probably the highest paying promotion. Fighters in invicta, bellator and wsof aren't paid as well as fighters in the ufc are, as far as I can tell. In many cases they're paid much worse. Either the UFC is corrupt and some other mma promotions are fair, or all mma promotions are extremely corrupt and unequal with their payscaling.
> 
> ...


I wasn't making a point UFC being corrupt, though. I was merely pointing out my stance about the idea we discussed while ago that fighters could have a minimum wage just to point out my completely opposite mentality from the guy who called me selfish.



M.C said:


> These are your words:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are trying to read like I don't care IF the developer makes ANY money at all just to fit your need to call me selfish, but that is miles away from the point.

When we speak about what Zuffa/Mcgregors make it's always about breaking records of PPV, more and more millions, countless times above the needed for any decent person in this world to be considered successful. And I am not saying people shouldn't get rich, but to pay the most absurds loads of money to a guy that makes even more evident and brags about how little others are making is ridiculous and worse, trying to say he works harder than the others, just because he has a mouth. How can you measure that? Are you inside everyone's gyms? No, this is the hype you bought and is spreading because you are a fan. There's nothing that proves McGregor works harder than other fighters beside he saying so. He is talented, no doubt, but I am sure hundreds of fighters are busting theit butts just as hard every day.

What he did to Nate, throwing his money on his face was ridiculous, although Nate could be a more successful if only he fought more, so that's on him, but what Conor said hits everybody else.

About the game developer, again, I don't care if he makes millions or billions, can you grasp that?


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

@Spite, I agree they are ridiculous, but at this stage Conor is even backing the ridiculous up.

Nate Diaz is a Lightweight, sure. But Nate Diaz also went to a decision with Rory MacDonald and Dong Hyun Kim at WW. Two top 10 guys couldnt put him away. If Conor stops Nate...it IS a solid accolade at 170.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> @Spite, I agree they are ridiculous, but at this stage Conor is even backing the ridiculous up.
> 
> Nate Diaz is a Lightweight, sure. But Nate Diaz also went to a decision with Rory MacDonald and Dong Hyun Kim at WW. Two top 10 guys couldnt put him away. If Conor stops Nate...it IS a solid accolade at 170.


Conor has shown us that he is a fighter and has backed up everything he said thus far. Going from FW to WW is massive, I can't think of anyone who's gone up two weight classes in a couple of month, or even in one fight.

Skill wise, we haven't seen much of him besides his striking which is top draw stuff. I think a well rounded fighter with good fight IQ beats him. I still think Aldo can beat him, I'm still a bit sick we never got to see that fight the way it was intended to be seen. But credit to Conor, he got in his head and he and his team executed a brilliant game plan that worked perfectly.

I want to see someone take him down and I want to see him get clagged by someone like Lawler or Hendriks before I'm all aboard the invincible Conor Train.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> I still think Aldo can beat him, I'm still a bit sick we never got to see that fight the way it was intended to be seen. But credit to Conor, he got in his head and he and his team executed a brilliant game plan that worked perfectly.


Conor got in Aldo's head so much that he got him to throw a fairly basic hook 10 seconds into the fight?


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Conor got in Aldo's head so much that he got him to throw a fairly basic hook 10 seconds into the fight?


His team were working on it in the locker room before the fight, theres videos showing this.

It was not a basic hook, it was a haymaker that would have had Mcgregor in all kinds of problems had he not landed first.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Spite said:


> , it was a haymaker that would have had Mcgregor in all kinds of problems had he not landed first.



Dunno about that, Mendez has more power then Aldo and he landed clean a number of times and barely got a flinch. I don't think anyone at FW had the power to hurt him. LW and WW are obviously different


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> I wasn't making a point UFC being corrupt, though. I was merely pointing out my stance about the idea we discussed while ago that fighters could have a minimum wage just to point out my completely opposite mentality from the guy who called me selfish.


I'm just trying to draw you away from MC, into something resembling a decent conversation. 

I don't think pay is the issue. MMA fighters in the UFC make ok money. Maybe not as much as they did before the reebok deal, but their income is ok. What makes things tough are the expenses they have where they have to pay for medical testing costs, travel arrangements, coaching staff and other liabilities which cause them to break about even, or lose money in comparison to what they're paid.

If you want an analogy, the average worker in the united states makes a ton more money than average workers in malaysia, china and other countries. But the expense and cost of living in the united states is so much more expensive that it doesn't matter how much americans are paid, many still struggle.

In the case of MMA and the UFC, those pay issues could be resolved if someone could figure out a way to reduce the expenses. Or if MMA as a sport grew to a point where fighters could be paid more.

I'm not sure if a minimum wage in the UFC would work, if someone fights 3 times a year and makes $10,000 per fight which comes out to $30,000 per year, that's well above the minimum wage in the united states. That's near to what starting pay for WWE wrestlers is.

The pay isn't so much the issue, its moreso the expenses and costs that make things difficult for people.

An example of potential ways to reduce costs.
-Instead of flying everywhere, MMA fighters could drive with their team in a van (if they were fighting on the same land mass) to cut costs.
-Instead of flying, MMA fighters could hitch a ride on a boat to another country, it would be less expensive if more inconvenient. Its something backpackers have been doing for a long time.
-MMA fighters might pool their money to do group training sessions with trainers / coaches.
-MMA fighters could do "go fund me" campaigns to raise money. I think Chris Camozzi already tried that with bitcoin.
-Instead of staying at a hotel, they could stay at a hostel, its cheaper.

I don't know how good or bad these ideas are. But when MMA fighters talk about their expenses, it does seem like there could be ways to bring them down so that they actually do manage to make a profit off their fights.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> His team were working on it in the locker room before the fight, theres videos showing this.
> 
> It was not a basic hook, it was a haymaker that would have had Mcgregor in all kinds of problems had he not landed first.


So you think Conor was able to prepare for a punch that is irregular from Aldo, and Conor made Aldo throw that based on words?

I mean, when he's done fighting then McGregor will be sorted. He's practically Derren Brown if he can make someone throw specific punches just by talking.

Conor McGregor comes out and half the time his first technique is MUCH more over committing than Aldo's was. What Aldo did wasn't some reckless abandon anomaly. It was a fairly standard one two hook attempt which Conor had sussed before the fight started. They had saw something from Aldo's tape which made them believe that move would be used throughout the fight and they were spot on.

I don't get how "mental warfare" was a factor at all in Conor landing a nice counter left.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

Mongs talking about McGregor-Lawlor as a legit thing make me piss my pants with laughter, not only would Lawlor put Conor away brutally he would hurt him alot and then KO him. It would look worse than Pendred Breese as Conor drops to one knee and looks up at the ref to stop the bout as the punches rain down.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

gazh said:


> Mongs talking about McGregor-Lawlor as a legit thing make me piss my pants with laughter, not only would Lawlor put Conor away brutally he would hurt him alot and then KO him. It would look worse than Pendred Breese as Conor drops to one knee and looks up at the ref to stop the bout as the punches rain down.


Disagree.

Lawler would clean KO him.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

Spite said:


> Disagree.
> 
> Lawler would clean KO him.


Are we talking a eyes open with ref holding his legs down KO?


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

gazh said:


> Mongs talking about McGregor-Lawlor as a legit thing make me piss my pants with laughter, not only would Lawlor put Conor away brutally he would hurt him alot and then KO him. It would look worse than Pendred Breese as Conor drops to one knee and looks up at the ref to stop the bout as the punches rain down.


Mongs talking about McGregor-Aldo (it's Lawler btw, not Lawlor, MONG) as a legit thing after beating Denis Siver make me piss myself with laughter.

You, pre Aldo.

Bet you weren't pissing yourself when he KO'd the p4p #1 in 13 seconds were you though, chump?

Do you even think Lawler is capable of KO'ing Nate Diaz? He's earned questionable recent decisions, has been rocked several times and hasn't scored a KO in two years. Stylistically, his phone booth boxing style is tailor made for a rangey boxer/kicker like Conor.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Mongs talking about McGregor-Aldo (it's Lawler btw, not Lawlor, MONG) as a legit thing after beating Denis Siver make me piss myself with laughter.
> 
> You, pre Aldo.
> 
> ...


Zzzzzzinnnnng


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Mongs talking about McGregor-Aldo (it's Lawler btw, not Lawlor, MONG) as a legit thing after beating Denis Siver make me piss myself with laughter.
> 
> You, pre Aldo.
> 
> ...




The size difference between the WW champ and Conor would be simply too much, the power too much, we've seen Conor's head snap back a few times from 145ers, he will sleep if he fights the champ.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

gazh said:


> Hey sackless, how're things?
> 
> The size difference between the WW champ and Conor would be simply too much, the power too much, we've seen Conor's head snap back a few times from 145ers, he will sleep if he fights the champ.


I reckon the bookies would have such a fight 50/50. Conor trains with WW's and above in SBG. He's used to the size, and he walks around at 174 anyway, so he could put on a couple pounds of muscle for the fight and cut then to 170. 
True, he could get KO'd he hasn't dealt with the heavier power someone like Robbie posesses. But he also has the skills to beat Robbie - I am Robbies biggest fan by the way, and picked him to be WW champ after his Koscheck destruction.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> I reckon the bookies would have such a fight 50/50. Conor trains with WW's and above in SBG. He's used to the size, and he walks around at 174 anyway, so he could put on a couple pounds of muscle for the fight and cut then to 170.
> True, he could get KO'd he hasn't dealt with the heavier someone like Robbie posesses. But he also has the skills to beat Robbie - I am Robbies biggest fan by the way, and picked him to be WW champ after his Koscheck destruction.


Robbie was not undersized at 185 though, he is a big WW in an era of big WWs.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Mongs talking about McGregor-Aldo (it's Lawler btw, not Lawlor, MONG) as a legit thing after beating Denis Siver make me piss myself with laughter.
> 
> You, pre Aldo.
> 
> ...


The problem with Conor and making predictions at WW is that you have nothing to gauge him against.

Conor has power, but is unproven at WW. Lawler also has power and is proven at WW. Conor has a solid chin at FW but unproven at WW. Lawler has a Solid chin, proven at WW, infact has only been KO'd by Nick Diaz - 12 years ago.

Both have good stand up. Conor may have better ground game, or may not - who knows, but he probably wouldn't be able to take Lawler down anyway. Conor's cardio is essentially untested. Lawler can go 5 rounds and has proven it on many occasions.

When theres so many unknown variables with Conor McGregor I've got to go with the logical choice - Lawler wins, probably by KO.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

gazh said:


> Robbie was not undersized at 185 though, he is a big WW in an era of big WWs.


True. I wouldn't like to see Conor taking a solid straightner off Robbie. 



Spite said:


> The problem with Conor and making predictions at WW is that you have nothing to gauge him against.
> 
> Conor has power, but is unproven at WW. Lawler also has power and is proven at WW. Conor has a solid chin at FW but unproven at WW. Lawler has a Solid chin, proven at WW, infact has only been KO'd by Nick Diaz - 12 years ago.
> 
> ...


Its his precision not his power that is the reason I think he can finish the bigger guys. Take the Poirier fight where he clipped in the sweet spot behind the ear, almost nobody aims for that spot anymore. Guys go down real easy if you hit that spot no matter who they are. His precision on Mendez with that clean straight left and the finish of Aldo of course. I think he has enough power because his boxing technique is so smooth it allows him to knock out the WW's without having to throw big haymakers and swing wild. Maybe he doesnt have it in his legs, he's not KO'ing Robbie with a head kick or anything, but I think he can put him down with the straight left.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> True. I wouldn't like to see Conor taking a solid straightner off Robbie.
> 
> 
> 
> Its his precision not his power that is the reason I think he can finish the bigger guys. Take the Poirier fight where he clipped in the sweet spot behind the ear, almost nobody aims for that spot anymore. Guys go down real easy if you hit that spot no matter who they are. His precision on Mendez with that clean straight left and the finish of Aldo of course. I think he has enough power because his boxing technique is so smooth it allows him to knock out the WW's without having to throw big haymakers and swing wild. Maybe he doesnt have it in his legs, he's not KO'ing Robbie with a head kick or anything, but I think he can put him down with the straight left.



Here's my observation on Robbie's style, yes he does like to box inside, but he doesn't rush in onto punches like Aldo did, he tends to inch inside whilst standing infront of his opponent (but not static) and almost lulls his opponent in, Robbie wouldn't be diving in and eating a magic punch, he would be creeping in on McGregor inviting him to throw, personally I think it would be a nightmare fight for Conor.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> True. I wouldn't like to see Conor taking a solid straightner off Robbie.
> 
> 
> 
> Its his precision not his power that is the reason I think he can finish the bigger guys. Take the Poirier fight where he clipped in the sweet spot behind the ear, almost nobody aims for that spot anymore. Guys go down real easy if you hit that spot no matter who they are. His precision on Mendez with that clean straight left and the finish of Aldo of course. I think he has enough power because his boxing technique is so smooth it allows him to knock out the WW's without having to throw big haymakers and swing wild. Maybe he doesnt have it in his legs, he's not KO'ing Robbie with a head kick or anything, but I think he can put him down with the straight left.


Well, someones been watching Bas on the Rogan Podcast.

The problem with that sweet spot is that it is hard to hit, and just because you do hit does not mean an automatic KO, it still requires power.

I still stand to my point. Conor is an unproven quantity at WW. I expect him to win the Diaz fight and that fight should also give us a good understanding of how well his skill sets translates at WW.

Even with a win though, I still think any of the current top 7 WW's beat him (Lawler, Thompson, Woodley, Condit, Hendricks, Maia).


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Spite said:


> *The problem with Conor and making predictions at WW is that you have nothing to gauge him against.
> 
> Conor has power, but is unproven at WW*. Lawler also has power and is proven at WW. Conor has a solid chin at FW but unproven at WW. Lawler has a Solid chin, proven at WW, infact has only been KO'd by Nick Diaz - 12 years ago.
> 
> ...


And Conor was unproven against elite FW Fighters before he obliterated Jose Aldo, as the critics kept saying.

McGregor vs. Lawler (who trains at a camp that is absolutely RAMPANT with PED abuse, had to point that out) won't be much of a laughing stock after the Diaz fight. You'll see very shortly.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> And Conor was unproven against elite FW Fighters before he obliterated Jose Aldo, as the critics kept saying.
> 
> McGregor vs. Lawler (who trains at a camp that is absolutely RAMPANT with PED abuse, had to point that out) won't be much of a laughing stock after the Diaz fight. You'll see very shortly.


Conor has done very for himself at FW. But theres a reason there is weight classes and also a reason some people desperately try to make weight to fight in them, because big guys in lighter weight classes have advantages.

What your saying is hypothetical at the moment, it is based on faith and hope rather than fact. I think Conor will beat Diaz, if he KO's him out then colour me impressed. But Diaz is still probably fringe top 10 at WW at best. If conor goes on a beats someone like Rory or Lawler, then I'm with you and declare him GOAT.

But until that time comes, I'm going to keep my feet firmly on the ground and see what happens.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Spite said:


> Conor has done very for himself at FW. But theres a reason there is weight classes and also a reason some people desperately try to make weight to fight in them, because big guys in lighter weight classes have advantages.
> 
> What your saying is hypothetical at the moment, it is based on faith and hope rather than fact. I think Conor will beat Diaz, if he KO's him out then colour me impressed. But Diaz is still probably fringe top 10 at WW at best. If conor goes on a beats someone like Rory or Lawler, then I'm with you and declare him GOAT.
> 
> But until that time comes, I'm going to keep my feet firmly on the ground and see what happens.


That's fair enough, but every fight is hypothetical before they actually take place.

Conor is a big guy - I'm sure he'd fit probably on the smaller side of the WW spectrum but could easily bulk up if he decides to take more fights there or challenge for the title.

Weight classes didn't stop BJ Penn from destroying the 2nd most dominant welterweight of all time, Matt Hughes, and taking the belt.

Other than power and size, I don't see any thing Lawler really offers McGregor. If he had serious trouble with Condit, I expected him to have even bigger worries with a fighter like Conor.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Poor Clyde getting caught with friendly fire here


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Thread has been cleaned up, keep it civilized please guys.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Spite's first day as mod and he gets to deal with the fun stuff. Welcome aboard! Anyways it's Friday...enjoy the weekend. Huge fights coming up! 

I really wonder if this goes all five rounds...how sick would that be. 

As for tmr; Anderson vs Bisping. Strange watching fights in the afternoon. I wonder if I can hold out from reading anything on the internet til Saturday night...hahaha.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Spite said:


> Well, someones been watching Bas on the Rogan Podcast.
> 
> The problem with that sweet spot is that it is hard to hit, and just because you do hit does not mean an automatic KO, it still requires power.
> 
> ...


Who's Baz Rutten? :laugh:

For that sweet spot its not a power shot its precision, all the sweet spots are. Look how he hit Aldo again, very little power at all pure technique. 
. Whats the other fight you can remember where that spot was hit? Theres probably plenty more but the other one I remember is Randy and Lesnar, and people were talking about Randy taking a dive because it was only such a slight glancing blow that funked him up. They were actually talking about Poirier taking a dive too, but that was probably Oldfan and Liddell along with the anti Conors in Ireland  

But anyway I don't know why Im talking about Robbie fighting him when its going to be GSP at UFC 200!! I wish I could put a proper bet on that somewhere.

And damn I wish I didn't go to sleep before whatever smack talk went down!


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

DonRifle said:


> Who's Baz Rutten? :
> For that sweet spot its not a power shot its precision, all the sweet spots are. Look how he hit Aldo again, very little power at all pure technique.
> . *Whats the other fight you can remember where that spot was hit? *


Well, since Conor never had landed that shot in his life as well, I think you are saying that was, in fact, a lucky shot. :thumb02:


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

This been posted yet?

WARNING: Content not suitable for everyone. Especially if you've just eaten.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Nate is going to get absolutely butchered with body kicks, jesus christ. Will Nick be cornering or does his silly suspension not allow him to corner his brother?
> 
> I'd love to see Nick step into the Octagon if McGregor beats Nate and call him out.


Tell us more about his world class kicks Reptile.

Im interested. You should write a book on Conor.....the best martial artist of all time.

Nate is going to get destroyed.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Tell us more about his world class kicks Reptile.
> 
> Im interested. You should write a book on Conor.....the best martial artist of all time.
> 
> Nate is going to get destroyed.


I was very surprised Conor didn't utilize body kicks, they've proven to be effective to deal with range and set up punches in previous fights - mendes for example.

Congrats buddy. I'm glad Nate won too. Salad>>>>>>>>steak


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