# 2nd Best Fighter of all time



## NikosCC (May 16, 2007)

I think that the majority of us can can agree that Fedor is the greatest mixed martial artist of all time. Who in your opinion would be second? Some names that come to mind are:

Chuck Liddell
Wanderlei Silva
Kazushi Sakuraba
Bas Rutten
Rickson Gracie
Big Nog
Mirko CroCop
Randy
Matt Hughes

Tell me what you think


----------



## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

NikosCroCop said:


> I think that the majority of us can can agree that Fedor is the greatest mixed martial artist of all time. Who in your opinion would be second? Some names that come to mind are:
> 
> Chuck Liddell
> Wanderlei Silva
> ...


Bas rutten, shogun, or big Nog. I'll post again in a bit to a narrow it down, I want to look up some stuff first.


----------



## Maximus (May 17, 2007)

I'll go out on a limb and say Royce Gracie *in his prime* may be the second best MMA fighter simply because he really stepped up to answer the question of which martial art is the "best?" He stepped in the octagon with opponents of every weightclass and discipline, and dispatched them. Arguably, if Royce Gracie had not been a key factor in the UFC's initial success, BJJ and submission defense may not have been a major factor in a fighter's repertoire until later. Royce showed that despite a fighter's weight advantage and knockout power, they better improve their ground game and either have titanium joints or be able to fend off a submission.


----------



## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

I don't honestly think anyone from like UFC 1- 20 can be the best any more unless they adapted. In his era he was dominant, but he wasnt an MMA fighter. It was style vs style.


----------



## herton17 (Sep 13, 2006)

Bas Rutten.


----------



## B-Real (Oct 1, 2006)

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. Bas was awesome for his time but I don't know how he would square off against Big Nog.


----------



## js9234 (Apr 8, 2007)

Royce Gracie isn't an MMA fighter. He's a Gracie Jiu Jitsu fighter that fought in MMA before anyone knew about Jiu Jitsuand didn't know how to defend it. He is nowhere near the 2nd best at all.


----------



## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

For his time you could make a case for Royce. I think thats how you gotta look at it as who was the best for their time. Ill put Bas at number 2. That may be a little biased though.


----------



## liveson777 (Aug 18, 2006)

ill go wit Big Nog also


----------



## Punishment 101 (May 4, 2006)

Ima go with Matt Hughes or Wanderlei Silva


----------



## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

Its reall tough Fedors my clear cut #1 but 2 is a toss up between Big Nog, Bas, Wand, Royce, Hughes, Randy, and Saku.


----------



## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Punishment 101 said:


> Ima go with Matt Hughes or Wanderlei Silva


I was also thinking Matt Hughes. There's a lot that you could name and have a valid point, but he's the guy who first came to my mind from UFC. 

I haven't seen enough pride to pick one of them, but I'm sure there are plenty from what I've seen.


----------



## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

asskicker said:


> Its reall tough Fedors my clear cut #1 but 2 is a toss up between Big Nog, Bas, Wand, Royce, Hughes, Randy, and Saku.


Damn it...I totally overlooked Couture. Damn youraise01: raise01: Fine, Hughes or Couture. The only reason I wouldn't say Couture is that he doesn't seem to be able to hold on to a belt. He can get em, but loses them often.


----------



## kaiser1041 (Oct 7, 2006)

i would say either wand for his amazing winning streak in pride and his attitude to fight out of his comfort zone and also randy he is mma at its purest an ambassador for the sport


----------



## FedorEm25 (May 28, 2007)

Pound for pound, I'd say BJ Penn might be second. Besides Jens Pulver, the only fights he's lost were fights that were out of his natural 155 weight class...and even those he showed amazing skills. If he stayed in the lightweight division, I think he'd be a more clear-cut candidate for 2nd best. 

Otherwise, I agree with everyone who said it could be Big Nog or Bas Rutten.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Barring Fedor, I'd say Bas Rutten. El Guapo was, without a doubt, one of the most dominant and influential fighters of all time. 

Frank Shamrock, Couture, Sakuraba, & Hughes are just a notch below.


----------



## KTs_2007 (Feb 26, 2007)

i'm between big Nog and Cro-Cop.big Nog cause thus far he has been unable to beat only Fedor(well i know he hasn't fought against Cotoure,Liddel etc but this may happen now he's in UFC).Cro-Cop has lost more fights yes but has lots of impressive KOs plus he has been one of the top 5(or 3) in K1.Although i love Shogun as much as Fedor i won't put him on the list cause he's younger and hasn't reach his prime yet.Bas is lovely and maybe he could have been the best but unforunately his career was shattered due to his injuries.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Damone said:


> Barring Fedor, I'd say Bas Rutten. El Guapo was, without a doubt, one of the most dominant and influential fighters of all time.
> 
> Frank Shamrock, Couture, Sakuraba, & Hughes are just a notch below.


Man I was about to say that no one has mentioned the #2 fighter which is Frank Shamrock. When he was on he was unstoppable. Bas is top 5 in my mind at #4 right behind Wandy at #3, and in front of Big Nog at #5 who if it wasn't for fighting at the same time as Fedor might be considered the best ever.

P.S. Shogun will be #1 before he retires just give him time


----------



## TKOSPIKE (Jul 7, 2006)

js9234 said:


> Royce Gracie isn't an MMA fighter. He's a Gracie Jiu Jitsu fighter that fought in MMA before anyone knew about Jiu Jitsuand didn't know how to defend it. He is nowhere near the 2nd best at all.


thats true, i would have to say couture, frank shamrock, shogun, or maybe even cro cop or big nog.


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Royce Gracie??? Are you guys kidding me?? He beat a bunch of stiffs with no knowledge of bjj. Are you telling me if Royce was in his prime could beat Big Nog? Nogueira would knock him out in 2 minutes. Bas was good, but he isnt quite on the level of guys like Noguiera, Couture, Liddell or Crocop. I dont know if the thread starter meant pound for pound. But if you meant who would win a tournament of the great fighters of all time in their prime. I would have to say Antonio Rodrigo Nogueria would be the favorite based on his sick grappling, crazy chin, and he is a pretty good striker too.


----------



## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Royce Gracie??? Are you guys kidding me?? He beat a bunch of stiffs with no knowledge of bjj. Are you telling me if Royce was in his prime could beat Big Nog? Nogueira would knock him out in 2 minutes. Bas was good, but he isnt quite on the level of guys like Noguiera, Couture, Liddell or Crocop. I dont know if the thread starter meant pound for pound. But if you meant who would win a tournament of the great fighters of all time in their prime. I would have to say Antonio Rodrigo Nogueria would be the favorite based on his sick grappling, crazy chin, and he is a pretty good striker too.


I think the only reason Royce has been mentioned is because people are looking at what he did for his time. I agree with what you said about Nog. I think Bas might still be ahead of him because he was lighter so the tourney wouldnt prove much. It wouldnt for Hughes or Saku either so that wouldnt work. I think Big Nog could very well be #2 all time, I just dont know though.:confused03:


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

asskicker said:


> I think the only reason Royce has been mentioned is because people are looking at what he did for his time. I agree with what you said about Nog. I think Bas might still be ahead of him because he was lighter so the tourney wouldnt prove much. It wouldnt for Hughes or Saku either so that wouldnt work. I think Big Nog could very well be #2 all time, I just dont know though.:confused03:


If we are talkin pound for pound its almost impossible to figure out who is the best. But in an OWGP I think Nogueira would take it :thumbsup:


----------



## TheSuplexor (Jun 2, 2006)

FedorEm25 said:


> Pound for pound, I'd say BJ Penn might be second. Besides Jens Pulver, the only fights he's lost were fights that were out of his natural 155 weight class...and even those he showed amazing skills. If he stayed in the lightweight division, I think he'd be a more clear-cut candidate for 2nd best.
> 
> Otherwise, I agree with everyone who said it could be Big Nog or Bas Rutten.


i would have to agree with bj...so much talent and potential....raped matt hughes back when he was skinny and in shape....if bj trained harder he could be champ in a couple weight classes


----------



## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Royce Gracie in his prime? Really?

Gracie didn't even finish UFC 3. That's not a dominant prime at all in my opinion.

If you want to talk about who was the most dominant in their PRIME, it's got top be Mark Kerr. Kerr smashed everybody, and he did it pretty easily for a long time and in 2 organizations.

Kerr was undefeated for 3 years where he destroyed everyone that was put in front of him. That's dominance, as far as I'm concerned, and I think that's probably the most dominant era for any fighter besides Fedor.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

IronMan said:


> Royce Gracie in his prime? Really?
> 
> Gracie didn't even finish UFC 3. That's not a dominant prime at all in my opinion.
> 
> ...


Gracie was very domiante in his prime just he was a horrendous all around fighter. Mark Kerr beat one other fighter who was good and that was Enson. he was dominate against sub par oppoenents. Frank Shamrock was dominate against much tougher fighters Tito, Horn, etc.. plus a better all around figther. Mark Kerr is an overrated bum


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Kerr really was an overrated blowhard. I mean, yeah, he looked good against people like Paul Varelans, Greg Stott, & Takada, but those guys sucked. As soon as he faced somewhat decent competition, he mentally quit. He could dish it out, but he couldn't take it, and the Fujita fight proved that.


----------



## Maximus (May 17, 2007)

I originally brough Royce as #2 for his time period. I'm talking about the Royce from the mid 90's that took all challengers regardless of size or fighting style. Back then MMA didn't exist in the form it does now, but it was _that_ Royce Gracie that made an impact on MMA. Forget about the Royce that fought Hughes and Saku.

However, I'll also agree with Couture & Rutten as #2 of all time. They are perhaps two of the most technical practitioners of MMA in the sport.


----------



## anton (Oct 15, 2006)

js9234 said:


> Royce Gracie isn't an MMA fighter. He's a Gracie Jiu Jitsu fighter that fought in MMA before anyone knew about Jiu Jitsuand didn't know how to defend it. He is nowhere near the 2nd best at all.


that doesn't make any sense. how is royce not an MMA fighter because his strength is jiu jitsu?

without jiu jitsu, there is no *mixed*, in mixed martial arts.


----------



## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

IronMan said:


> Royce Gracie in his prime? Really?
> 
> Gracie didn't even finish UFC 3. That's not a dominant prime at all in my opinion.
> 
> ...


I normally agree with you but theres no way in hell I would rank Mark Kerr as the #2 fighter of all time. Not even close.


----------



## leviticus (May 27, 2007)

I gotta go with Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. The mention of Cro Cop is amusing. He is a one dimensional fighter. That one dimension can be lethal and is highly entertaining to watch, but as his debut in the ufc (Gonzaga) showed he needs work in his ground game. Until that happens, I can't seriously consider him in a best of all time list.


----------



## Slamnbam88 (Oct 23, 2006)

bj hughes or wandi

just dominance against good competition


----------



## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

leviticus said:


> I gotta go with Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. The mention of Cro Cop is amusing. He is a one dimensional fighter. That one dimension can be lethal and is highly entertaining to watch, but as his debut in the ufc (Gonzaga) showed he needs work in his ground game. Until that happens, I can't seriously consider him in a best of all time list.


I agree theres alot of people who should be ahead of Cro Cop at this point.


----------



## TheSuplexor (Jun 2, 2006)

IronMan said:


> Royce Gracie in his prime? Really?
> 
> Gracie didn't even finish UFC 3. That's not a dominant prime at all in my opinion.
> 
> ...


having three or so fights in a night is hard....thats why ufc guys and pride guys dont do it anymore...gracie dominated everyone even though he was 50lbs lighter then most opponents which was more impressive then Kerr who was bigger and stronger then his opponents


----------



## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

doublelegtakedown said:


> having three or so fights in a night is hard....thats why ufc guys and pride guys dont do it anymore...gracie dominated everyone even though he was 50lbs lighter then most opponents which was more impressive then Kerr who was bigger and stronger then his opponents


You bring up a good point, but remember that Kerr did do 2 four man tournaments. That's two fights in a night. I'm not saying it's that impressive, just that we was more dominant for 3 years than Royce was for 1 because, unlike Royce, he was actually undefeated.

I'm not saying that Kerr was pound for pound the second best fighter ever, but he was the second best heavyweight.

Keep in mind, Hughes was also much larger physically than alot of the guys he defended his title against (i.e. Hayato Sakurai, Carlos Newton). That doesn't make it any less impressive, but he did lose when he was confronted with someone similar to his own size and skill level in GSP.

I just don't think that Gracie ever really dominated the sport beyond UFC 1 and 2. Yes, he won UFC 4, but I don't think that it was the kind of dominance that a guy like Fedor or Kerr has/had.

It's just my opinion, but I'd like to throw out the name of a guy who didn't lose, all of the guys that people are mentioning did lose before/during the times when they were dominant. Kerr didn't.

Wanderlei lost to Tito (actually got dominated).

BJ lost the decision to Pulver.

Pulver was dominant for all of 5 UFC events, and he lost to Din Thomas once between those fights. Frankly, not that impressive.

Big Nog didn't really dominate. He lost a close decision to Barnett, even though he avenged that. I just don't think he was ever really on top of anything.

Frank Shamrock, as great fighter as he is and was, was never really dominant anywhere for more than a half-dozen events at a time. His stint in the UFC was 5 fights (6 if you count his K-1 win over Sinosic, who he never finished) after he ran away from Pancrase after losing to Rutten, Kondo and a no-name. I like Frank but there is no way he deserves to even be considered.

You can say that he was an over-rated bum and that he didn't fight anybody tough, but he had 11 first round finishes in 13 wins. That's pretty impressive, regardless of who you fight.

Here's a little fun fact on the Smashing Machine:

Mark Kerr fought twice at UFC 15 in his last UFC appearance. He finished both of his opponents in a combined time of 110 seconds with 1 KO and 1 submission (rear naked choke).


----------



## js9234 (Apr 8, 2007)

anton said:


> that doesn't make any sense. how is royce not an MMA fighter because his strength is jiu jitsu?
> 
> without jiu jitsu, there is no *mixed*, in mixed martial arts.


ACTUALLY it makes PERFECT sense. MMA is MIXED Martial Arts. Not just one style like Gracie. He had nothing other than Jiu Jitsu. It worked well against people who have not heard of it yet. But he was one dimensional. Not a MIXED Martial Artist. Mixed means more than one Martial arts style. My opinion anyways.


----------



## HBwillie (Jan 13, 2007)

too bad igor whooped that ass.



IronMan said:


> You bring up a good point, but remember that Kerr did do 2 four man tournaments. That's two fights in a night. I'm not saying it's that impressive, just that we was more dominant for 3 years than Royce was for 1 because, unlike Royce, he was actually undefeated.
> 
> I'm not saying that Kerr was pound for pound the second best fighter ever, but he was the second best heavyweight.
> 
> ...


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

IronMan said:


> You bring up a good point, but remember that Kerr did do 2 four man tournaments. That's two fights in a night. I'm not saying it's that impressive, just that we was more dominant for 3 years than Royce was for 1 because, unlike Royce, he was actually undefeated.
> 
> I'm not saying that Kerr was pound for pound the second best fighter ever, but he was the second best heavyweight.
> 
> ...


Yea but he fought a bunch of cans as soon as he started fighting good fighters Fujita he stopped winning.
Frank beat good fighters and in my opinion 6 wins over good fighters is far better than 12 wins over cans and a win over Enson.

Mark Kerr in his whole career won 1 impressive fight. 

If we are going by 1st round finshes then Shogun should be #2 since he in his 16 wins has finsihed 13 in the first round and 1 in the 2nd. That to me is more impressive due to the fighters they were both facing.
and Wanderlei's UFC career is like Kerr's Pride if you want to use that Wanderlei in Pride was much better than Kerr at any time in his career.


----------



## jrobinsonnn (May 19, 2007)

After seeing Sakuraba square off against Gracie the way he did I'll have to go with Sakuraba as the second greatest of all time.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Sakuraba's a good pick. He was a trend setter, and his accomplishments are really great. People nowadays may think "So he beat the Gracies, big deal!" but at that time it was considered ground breaking. It's all about putting things into perspective, and with Sakuraba, you had a fighter who took on all challengers, of all sizes, and beat them. Royce was considered "The man" at the time he faced Sakuraba, and Saku made him throw in the towel. He was groundbreaking, and he carried Pride for a while. Seriously, if there was no Kazushi Sakuraba, then Pride would've never gained the popularity that it did. Without Sakuraba, we wouldn't be talking about how great Pride was.


----------



## jrobinsonnn (May 19, 2007)

You said that better than I could. I liked his sportsmanship as well which goes a long way in my opinion in making for a fun match to watch. Be a lunatic in the ring when the fight is on but when it's over....at least act like you have some traditional training in what martial arts are about and have some respect for the other fighter. The UFC lacks this but I watch it anyway if a little bit grudgingly.


----------



## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

Randy or Wandy, Bas

Wandy becuase he was Pride's Middleweight Champion for over 5 years 

Randy becuase even though he hasn't had many fights, he has held two belts in two divisions at the age of 43 and for that i think he deserves it

Bas is just bad-ass


----------



## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

Damone said:


> Sakuraba's a good pick. He was a trend setter, and his accomplishments are really great. People nowadays may think "So he beat the Gracies, big deal!" but at that time it was considered ground breaking. It's all about putting things into perspective, and with Sakuraba, you had a fighter who took on all challengers, of all sizes, and beat them. Royce was considered "The man" at the time he faced Sakuraba, and Saku made him throw in the towel. He was groundbreaking, and he carried Pride for a while. Seriously, if there was no Kazushi Sakuraba, then Pride would've never gained the popularity that it did. Without Sakuraba, we wouldn't be talking about how great Pride was.


Very well said. God, I dont know how anyone could possibly not like Saku. Hes just so awesome. hes like Bas and Randy you have to like him you have no choice.


----------



## dutch sauce (Sep 24, 2006)

sakuraba could be a good guess


----------



## capt_america (Apr 16, 2007)

my pick is randy... he had beaten guys who dominates the sport.. his loses only shows that he is human.. and lastly
if fedor is going to lose to someone, its definitely to randy...


----------



## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

This is who is 2nd beta fighter of all time, if someone was dominant in their era, completely dominant, but they would get beat now, they can't be number 2. 

Also, it's not even about dominance. Someone said, Big nog didn't dominant anyone, well, it's about beating the opponents which he did. 

In addition, I've changed my stance on Royce Gracie. UFC 1-20 we're MMA. Despite the fact they only practice one martial arts for them selves they did have to defend against multiple arts with an MMA rule set.


----------



## Barrym (Nov 19, 2006)

Bas Rutten all the way


----------



## fullcontact (Sep 16, 2006)

Randy Couture. He has an extremely good record compared to who he has faced and most of his fights are in the UFC, which has always been a topdivision in mma. Champion in two differen weigh classes.

Also Matt Hughes should be up there with 9 title defences:thumbsup: I believe he is 10-2 in championship fights? If thats true even though I dont care much for the guy, that is amazing.


----------



## NikosCC (May 16, 2007)

Couture
Hughes
Royce
Big Nog
Bas
Lots fo names come to mind lol it would be a hard one..

its a toss up between Bas Randy and Matt hughes.. Hughes 9 title defences..

Randy is the only one to hold two belts same time and hes a great fighter

Bas- is just amazing since his lost to Ken in 1995 hes been undefeated with 22 or something straight wins.. lol


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

NikosCroCop said:


> Couture
> Hughes
> Royce
> Big Nog
> ...


I'm just wondering why is everyone leaving Wandy out is it because he just got KO'd twice or is it something else just wondering


----------



## CroCopPride (Jan 13, 2007)

cro cop and shogun


----------



## NikosCC (May 16, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> I'm just wondering why is everyone leaving Wandy out is it because he just got KO'd twice or is it something else just wondering



HAHAHAHAHA I totally forgot about him thanx for saying something i would also put him in there he dominated PRIDE World Middleweight Division from (2001-2007) lol thats enough right there.. Rep + thanx


----------



## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

The second best fighter of all time is clearly Matty Mo, and only because he doesn't have as many official fights under his belt and the UFC is trying to keep him down. Soon he will surpass Fedor for the top spot. With that spinning backfist and his brutal G&P, the man is unstoppable... and after only 1 Red Bull.raise01:


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

The kneebreaker is the new LHK.


----------



## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

Damone said:


> The kneebreaker is the new LHK.


True that. And that's on his off day. Imagine that man on an on day. Scary.


----------



## Duffman (Mar 30, 2007)

Wandy 23 In A Row!!!!!!!


----------



## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

God i still cant decide! I think Im just gonna call it a six way tie between Bas, Nog, Randy, Saku, Wand, and Hughes.

Ill give the tie breaker to Bas due to coolness.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Hey I just got to thinking what would have happened if Frank Shamrock went to Pride after he left UFC.
Who would win fights like
Frank vs Sakuraba
Frank vs Wandy
It would've been great. I got Frank over Saku and Wandy KO Frank out in a war.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

asskicker said:


> Ill give the tie breaker to Bas due to coolness.


Excellent choice.

Frank vs Saku is really tough to predict, because it'd be around the year 2000, and Saku was pretty much the man during that time period. I think Frank could take it in a split decision, but this is way too tough to predict.

Wandy would probably TKO Frank in the third.


----------



## BJJ Boy (Jan 21, 2007)

Seeing as chuck is on their im suprised you didnt say rampage


----------



## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

I wish I posted earlier, not much else to say. As far as accomplishments go I have to pick Randy Couture. 3 time hw champion 2 time lhw champion (3 if you count the interm title). All of his championships were won in his 30s as well. 

If I could make a rough list it would go 
-Kazushi Sakuraba
-Matt Hughes
-Nogueira 
-Wanderlei Silva
-Frank Shamrock (I wish he stayed around longer, whatever legacy is pissed away now)
-Mark Coleman*
-Royce Gracie*
-Josh Barnett
-Chuck Liddell
-Maurice Smith*
-Bas Rutten
-Mirko Cro Cop (nobody has a hl like his and no fighter made the transition from k1 to mma better)
-Ken Shamrock*
-Kid Yamamoto (I think he's that good) 
-BJ Penn
-Dan Henderson


It's crazy that pro MMA is less than 2 decades old and we've seen so many great fighters. Joe Rogan talked about levels on his radio show and Fedor is just at that top right now. I mean I consider Big Nog a #2 in the hw division and Fedor has beaten him soundly twice.


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Sakuraba's is great but he isnt #2. On any list Wand MUST be ahead of him.


----------



## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Sakuraba's is great but he isnt #2. On any list Wand MUST be ahead of him.


But Saku shouldve been a weight class below Wand. Thats like saying Cro Cop must be ahead of Wand.


----------



## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Damone said:


> Excellent choice.
> 
> Frank vs Saku is really tough to predict, because it'd be around the year 2000, and Saku was pretty much the man during that time period. I think Frank could take it in a split decision, but this is way too tough to predict.
> 
> Wandy would probably TKO Frank in the third.


Wanderlei was the force in mma until Arona and more importantly when Cro Cop split his head open. His schedule was too much if you ask me. I still would be interested in seeing Silva vs Shogun, just because I know it would never happen now.

Frank and Sakuraba where the best in each promotion at the time. I have a load of Shamrock dream fights (in his prime).


----------



## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Sakuraba's is great but he isnt #2. On any list Wand MUST be ahead of him.


If your talking about mine, I just put some names out there. I never ordered it, my bad.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Why shouldn't Sakuraba be number 2? He's an influential figure in MMA, and helped make Pride what it was. His accomplishments are amazing.


----------



## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Sakuraba built Pride. He beat the famed Gracies and was THE Japanese icon, not Takada or some Judo stars. He also made stars out of Silva, Lil Nog and Arona. It's hard to watch somebody so great get demolished but it's the cycle. I hate to compare it to pro wrestling but it puts over new talent. Like Shamrock did to Tito and most recently Chuck did for a new fan base to follow Rampage Jackson.


----------



## leew11k (Nov 19, 2006)

2nd best has to be wandy most of his fight are exciting and isnt that part of mma and dominating pride for 5 years being the champ,wot other lhw would face the likes of crocop,hunt bigger guys and trade with them, for me its wandy.


----------



## TheSuplexor (Jun 2, 2006)

Terry77 said:


> Wanderlei was the force in mma until Arona and more importantly when Cro Cop split his head open. His schedule was too much if you ask me. I still would be interested in seeing Silva vs Shogun, just because I know it would never happen now.
> 
> Frank and Sakuraba where the best in each promotion at the time. I have a load of Shamrock dream fights (in his prime).


saku vs frank shamrock would have been a killer fight!!!! saku whooping everyones a$$ at the time and frank doing the same in the ufc. it is a shame frank wasn't in it longer


----------

