# 10 Questions to Ask in a Post-Fedor World



## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Really good article by cagepotato. I pretty much agree with what they are saying this really devalues the tournament. 

[/QUOTE]
1. Is it really time to walk away?

Dude, obviously. One of Strikeforce’s mid-major heavyweights made Emelianenko look like a fighter of very little consequence last night. He was outsized and outclassed by Antonio “Bigfoot” Silva in every chartable way. For a guy who has meant so much to the sport during the last decade, you’d love to see him make a graceful exit with his peerless 31-3 record still somewhat intact. Could Fedor stick around for a few more fights? Probably even win a couple? Sure, but after last night it would only feel like Tyson after Holyfield, like Jordan after he bought the Wizards, like Favre after the dick pics leaked. In other words: Just sad. Throughout his career, Emelianenko has done things no other man has been able to do. Let’s hope he can add the ability to call it quits when the time is right to that list of accomplishments.

2. Is 205-pounds a possibility?

For a normal human, yeah. For Fedor? We can’t picture it. A mortal man of Fedor’s stature would have gotten his ass down to light heavyweight years ago, but until his last pair of outings Emelianenko has never been mortal. Clearly he could cut the weight without sacrificing much more than a little baby fat, but given what we know about the man himself we’re not sure this guy is even aware there is a light heavyweight division.

3. How long have we been living this lie?

For awhile now. Fedor hasn’t quite been himself in any of his last handful of appearances. He was losing the Arlovski fight before the knockout. He was losing the Rogers fight before the knockout. Perhaps at some point while he was fighting all those cans during the last five years, the game passed him up. Either that or his skills have eroded to the point that he can no longer get away with cutting the technical corners he used to cut. The writing has been on the wall as far back as his last fight in Affliction, we just ignored it because, c’mon, this was frickin’ Fedor we were talking about.

4. Does the grand prix still matter?

It does, but it needs a good showing from Alistair Overeem now more than ever. All along, Strikeforce has been trying desperately to craft the argument that the winner of the GP will be the No. 1-2 heavyweight in the world. Except, that line of reasoning pretty much assumed the winner would be Emelianenko or The Reem. Maybe Werdum, but honestly we’re still not sure we buy into the public image of the resurgent “Vai Cavalo” that’s been all the rage since his own win over Emelianenko. Stikeforce still has a nice little tourney going, but if the final somehow turns out to be Bigfoot vs. Kharitonov, don’t let anybody feed you the line of hooey that it means anything.

5. They can’t still be thinking of putting this thing on pay-per-view, right?

Good god, no. You serious?

6. Speaking of Werdum, how much does this devalue his win over Emelianenko?

Big time. If this were college football Werdum’s “strength of schedule” would be in a tailspin now that the marquee win of his season looks like it may have come over a powder-puff squad. Don’t worry though, Fab’s upcoming bout with Overeem will pretty much tell the tale on where he’s at. If Werdum wins that one, then we can consider him a Top Five guy. Until then, the jury’s still out.

7. OK assholes, so what does this victory mean for Bigfoot?

We’re tempted to say not a lot, actually, aside from the fact he’s just one freak injury or another upset win away from the GP final. Strikeforce can do as much damage control as it wants about how the giant Top Team fighter has “always been underrated” but this fight clearly said more about Fedor’s decline than it did about Pezao’s ascension. Honestly though, we hope some so-called “MMA analyst” slots Silva as the No. 2-heavyweight in the world after this, just like a bunch of guys did with Werdum last June. That’ll be rich.

8. Are we doomed to a lifetime of Fedor comparisons, Fedor arguments and declarations that some dude is “the new Fedor”?

Unfortunately, yes. It took Gus Johnson and Mauro Ranallo all of 10 minutes following the Silva loss to draw the aforementioned ponderous association between Kharitonov and Emelianenko while they were scrambling close the show. We wish we could tell you that will be the last time some dumbass compares a random, totally undeserving fighter to The Great Man, but it won’t be. Not by a longshot.

9. Can Strikeforce take this opportunity to totally wash its hands of M-1 Global?

Let’s hope so. If any good comes out of this it’ll be that Scoot Coker can unload at least one of the giant albatrosses that perennially threaten to kill his company. Out with the Russians gangsters … in with the, uh, Japanese gangsters if SF makes good on its plan to take Barnett and Overeem overseas in April.

10. Wait. You don’t think Strikeforce will figure out a way to get him back in the tournament … do you?

It would be pretty low, even for them. On the other hand, nothing these guys can do would surprise us anymore. I mean, did you see Gus Johnson last night? The promotion that allows its play-by-play man to go on national television looking like that is capable of anything. Concocting a half-baked scheme to get Fedor back in the draw would be so dim-witted and would so kill whatever limited momentum the GP has left, that it totally seems like something Strikeforce would do. Furthermore, it would probably only open up Fedor to more physical punishment. Nobody wants to see that, so let’s hope the “Tournament Committee” plays this one straight.[/QUOTE]


http://www.cagepotato.com/10-questions-to-ask-in-a-post-fedor-world/


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

M-1 Global + Strikeforce is dead. Russian fighters can stay in M-1 Global and fight amongst themselves in like Russia V.S. The World (of cans we find on the street) events to satisfy mother Russia.


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## strikersrevenge (Nov 20, 2010)

This article means nothing to me. Fedor is still a bad ass fighter and stuff like that. He just isn't the best anymore.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

funny how you can call Big Foot and Arlovski cans, lets look at Arlovski career first shall we he is one of the best fighters in the UFC, he leaves the UFC and has since only faced tougher opponents which has been his only downfall, take Roy Nelson into this equation, Nelson loses to Arlovski then goes to the UFC where he gets to face a lower level of opponents and gets himself a respectable UFC record and is seen as one of there possible dark horse contenders.

Diss MMA Maths all you like but the evidence above is outstanding pointing towards the UFC having a much lower level of competition to face at HW if it was the other way round and NElson was fighting the guys Arlovski has faced at Striekforce and Arlovski was facing the guys Nelson is facing in the UFC who do you think would be on the losing streak?

Big Foot, OK I confess there are still floors in his game, he is not great in the athletic sense and I don't think he works well off his back although he is good at avoiding large amounts of damage from his back so can survive there. His biggest strength tho is that if the gets on top of you just once in a match he can cause immense damage he has a wide range of submission skills in his arsenal making him very very dangerous from top position, his stand up can hold up well also, he has a great chin and hold his own even against the best on the feet, but his main strength is still by far been on top in a ground fight. He was the raining EliteXC HW champion, he has good take downs and holds a Black Belt in Judo to add to his Take down arsenal, he is a full blows 265 HW not carrying any access fat, good Cardio and is a relentless hard worker.

If you ask me he has all the making of a champion right there, and is about as far away from the can you rate him as, compare him to say Brock Lesnar, Brock is more athletic but does not share the skill level of Big Foot, Brock has not shown much off his back except assuming the turtle position big foot may not have shown much offence from his back but he does putt guard very well, in fact I dont think I have ever seen anyone pass his guard and does defend himself well.

From top position both have excellent GnP and can to much damage Silva does improve position better and goes for mount, Brock tents to go for side control against Mir I believe he had problems passing half guard and worked GnP from there, so no doubt Silva is better at advancing position, has equal damage GnP and Silva has the much more Superior submission arsenal making him significantly more dangerous to be on top of you.

In the Takedowns department I would give the edge to Brock because he is more athletic and can shoot in faster, but Silva also has great success in this area and could take most guys down.

Stand up you have to give to Silva with Brocks stand up been such a low standard and Silvas been above average and still dangerous.

I make this comparison with Brock since I know you are or at least was a huge Brock fan and on his bandwagon big time as least when he was the champ, and my final verdict is that Big Foot is a more skilled and more dangerous version of Brock with many simulates such as size, style of fighting, and main strengths.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

KillerShark1985 said:


> funny how you can call Big Foot and Arlovski cans, lets look at Arlovski career first shall we he is one of the best fighters in the UFC, he leaves the UFC and has since only faced tougher opponents which has been his only downfall, take Roy Nelson into this equation, Nelson loses to Arlovski then goes to the UFC where he gets to face a lower level of opponents and gets himself a respectable UFC record and is seen as one of there possible dark horse contenders.
> 
> Diss MMA Maths all you like but the evidence above is outstanding pointing towards the UFC having a much lower level of competition to face at HW if it was the other way round and NElson was fighting the guys Arlovski has faced at Striekforce and Arlovski was facing the guys Nelson is facing in the UFC who do you think would be on the losing streak?
> 
> ...


I'd have to agree with all of your points Killershark.

Silva needs to get some big time credit here. I'm a really big Fedor fan and I can definitely tell it's time for him to retire and go down in History is the greatest HW of all time.

Fedor dominated in a time where HW's had one skill or another, not fully rounded like the guys of today. Add to the fact that Fedor gives up reach, height and weight.... that's a bad combo in a division where one punch can end a fight.

People try to discredit Fedor, yet every respectable MMA fighter names him the GOAT.... that really says a lot.

Onto Arlovski, while a great fighter.... seems like the reciepe to take him out is pressure and hit him on the chin early. Poor guy, he's a great fighter with amazing athletisism, but when a roadblock appears, his confidence shatters.

Siva... he's is soo undervalued as a fighter, I feel I never gave him the credit he deserved. I agree too, he'd take Brock and punish him dearly, then mount and GNP to a TKO or submit him. 

The UFC division to me, is looking weaker by the minute. There's Cain and Dos Santos.... the next best talent is tiers below (until I see Carwin improve his cardio), he ranks 3-4th for me.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

rockybalboa25 said:


> 7. OK assholes, so what does this victory mean for Bigfoot?
> 
> We’re tempted to say not a lot, actually, aside from the fact he’s just one freak injury or another upset win away from the GP final. Strikeforce can do as much damage control as it wants about how the giant Top Team fighter has “always been underrated” but this fight clearly said more about Fedor’s decline than it did about Pezao’s ascension. Honestly though, we *hope some so-called “MMA analyst” slots Silva as the No. 2-heavyweight in the world after this*, just like a bunch of guys did with Werdum last June. That’ll be rich.


If you want to see an MMA analysis view that is not UFC biased on the current, then I consider myself an excellent judge of this in the HW division especially, am good with the LHW division as well, but am so far ahead of the division hype that others caught in the hype are still catching up, dont do P4P at all as its pointless imo in a sport where different styles suit different divisions.

Some say I am anti-UFC pro SF in my opinions but this is not true, how many times do the guys who say that claim statements like "he should goto SF to face a lower level of opponents" when talking about someone failing in the UFC, I just call it how it is and if the fighters in SF are more skilled than the ones in the UFC then I give then the credit they deserve, its not been biased against the UFC if many of the top fighter in the sport especially the HW division are not in the UFC at present its just the way it is, if people can't accept that and see it as biased against the UFC then fine but it remains the truth.

Anyway here is my Top 10 HW list

Cain
Overeem
JDS
Werdum
Bigfoot
Fedor
Brock
Carwin
Barnett
Mir or Rogers or Kharitonov

Bare in mind what makes the difference between fighters next to each other is fractions, took many people see a lit like this and act as if its saying Overeem is Miles better than JDS for example because he is ranked higher when in fact the difference could sometimes be measured on a knifes edge and chance in just one fight.

The Mir vs Rogers shout for No.10 sport to make a clear top 10 will sort its self out over the next fights for both fighters, its quite an interesting situation If Rogers beats Barnett then he cements himself in the current top 10, possibility pushing Mir or Barnett himself out, depending on overall performance in the fights.

If Mir beats Nelson and Rogers Loses then its clear that Mir takes that spot.

If both Mir and Rogers win then is more than likely to push Barnett out the top ten and Mir and Rogers will be 9 and 10 in a very close battle possibility edged by Rogers having just come off a win over a slightly higher ranked opponent with Barnett than Mir against Nelson who just resides outside the top 10 listing 12th or 13th.

If Nelson gets a convincing win over Mir then this could potentially push him into the top 10 but would need a very disappointing performance from ether Roger or Barnett to be over took.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

I'd also like to add on Fedor...

To be undefeated for almost 10 years is not only impressive, it's unbelievable. Giving up weight, reach and possibly a good amount of strength to compete in HW says a lot. He's a warrior who pulled off some of the most dominant finishes and comebacks in MMA.

I can't believe how many haters can't give credit where it's due. Tyson lost at some point, Ali did, Jordan, Federer, Michael Johnson, Shumacher, etc etc...

What i'm trying to say is all the best have lost one or multiple times. It's just stupidity to just a persons worth on one instance, instead of their entire career. 

I also read what Dana said about Fedor.... he reminds me of Vince McMahan.... great business man but a total piece of trash as a human being. He's soo two faced with his propaganda it's asinine.

I hope Strikeforce co-promotes an event for HW and knocks UFC down a peg.


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## Curly (Aug 20, 2007)

Big_Charm said:


> I'd also like to add on Fedor...
> 
> To be undefeated for almost 10 years is not only impressive, it's unbelievable.


Had he been in the UFC he never would have been undefeated... this argument is a joke.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Curly said:


> Had he been in the UFC he never would have been undefeated... this argument is a joke.


your argument is a joke, oh wait you have not even got an argument to back up this total joke of a point with no solid evidence to support your claim other than words said by Dana White.

Truth is he is facing far Superior competition outside the UFC than the majority of fighter at HW inside the UFC with there restrictive policies there to protect there fighters from been exposed by having to fight the best fighters outside the UFC,

Take Arlovski for example, did excellent inside the UFC, but then leaves the UFC and starts to face a higher grade of competition and now he is on the worse loosing streak of his career, Then look at Nelson a guy who Arlovski beat not long back outside the UFC, he goes to the UFC and is doing well and considered one of the top fighters they have, now think if the tables where reversed, what if Arlovski went back to the UFC and faced the opponents Nelson has faced, and Nelson had gone to Strikeforce and faced the opponents Arlovski has faced, I think if that had been the case there current records now would both be very different what do you think?

You just carry on believing on your reality TV stars, because thats what makes up the ranks of the UFC right now, a bunch of fighters who could not get recognized nor had the skills to compete on the top level of the circuit, but went on reality TV won a competition, or maybe didn't even have to win, yet now fight on the UFC, ok there are the odd exceptions to this rule but you are now looking at this when you look at a large percent of the UFC raster.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Anyway here is my Top 10 HW list
> 
> Cain
> Overeem
> ...


This is actually a decent list, especially coming from you.

I see no reason how you can even mention Rogers in the top 10 though. He has seriously 1 decent win in his life...and that is vs. AA who everyone can beat now a days. He has 2 losses to 2 of the best, and just almost lost to a guy with a sub .500 record. I don't see how 1 win vs. a guy like Arlovski is enough to mention him in the top 10. I mean he could at least have 1 more credible win in his whole career. Mir hasn't been great, but at least he has beat guys who are relevant to the game. It gets thin any way you cut it towards the end of the top 10 at HW, but Mir has beat more than 1 glass jaw'd opponent in his life. 

I don't see how Rogers is even a top 15 HW at this point. The rest of the list is solid in my opinion.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

As for Bigfoot Silva, I am still not sure. Coming into the fight I thought he was a tad overrated. Each time he is given a solid opponent he usually struggles. He lost a stand up fight to Werdum. 

After the Fedor thrashing, I respect his skills much more, but I'm still not sure if he is elite material. He is well-rounded and can do many things well. But can he strike with Overeem? WHat if Werdum beats Overeem? Is he going to get out struck again? Can he take a guy like Overeem down and control him? 

To me he is a real solid HW. Top 10 for sure now. Maybe he has turned a corner in his career and is starting to put it all together. I just have my doubts when the Kyle fight was not long ago...then he dismantles a top 3 or 5 HW. Still can't tell what he is. 

We all know what Werdum's strategy vs. Overeem is, get it to the ground and sub his ass. What would Silva's plan be? Most likely the same thing, but his level of BJJ is far less than Werdum's. Will be interesting to see, but I see Overeem running through everyone at this point because none of these guys are strong enough wrestlers outside of Barnett.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> This is actually a decent list, especially coming from you.
> 
> I see no reason how you can even mention Rogers in the top 10 though. He has seriously 1 decent win in his life...and that is vs. AA who everyone can beat now a days. He has 2 losses to 2 of the best, and just almost lost to a guy with a sub .500 record. I don't see how 1 win vs. a guy like Arlovski is enough to mention him in the top 10. I mean he could at least have 1 more credible win in his whole career. Mir hasn't been great, but at least he has beat guys who are relevant to the game. It gets thin any way you cut it towards the end of the top 10 at HW, but Mir has beat more than 1 glass jaw'd opponent in his life.
> 
> I don't see how Rogers is even a top 15 HW at this point. The rest of the list is solid in my opinion.


Well that is something that will be resolved when we see Mir vs Nelson and Rogers vs Barnett, but I don't think you are giving AA or Rogers quite enough credit at present, looking at the fighters who would be floating round about from 10 to 15 like Nelson, Schaub, Struve, Nogueira I think Rogers currently defiantly belongs to be in the shout so would AA if not for such a touch run of level of competition recently, Kharitonov would have just replaced AA in the top 15 now making them Nelson, Schaub, Struve, Nogueira, Kharitonov in what ever order you like, and its close any one of these fighters could enter or be dropped from the top 10 with just 1 win or loss, come the end of the GP who knows maybe Kharitonov will seal himself a top 10 spot pushing both Mir and Rogers out.

As for what your saying about Big Foot and his fight with Werdum, maybe Bigfoot did not have the confidence to believe in his GnP top control strategy which is his main strength against Werdum, maybe Werdum would have had the ground skills to stop Big Foot on the ground, maybe it was just one of those fights sure Bigfoots stand up is nothing to shout about but he can survive on his feet which against 9 out of 10 opponents will keep him around long enough for him to win the TD and get him where he is at his best which is on th ground on top, maybe Werdum is a guy he just did not want to take there.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

KillerShark1985 said:


> If you want to see an MMA analysis view that is not UFC biased on the current, then I consider myself an excellent judge of this in the HW division especially, am good with the LHW division as well, but am so far ahead of the division hype that others caught in the hype are still catching up, dont do P4P at all as its pointless imo in a sport where different styles suit different divisions.
> 
> Some say I am anti-UFC pro SF in my opinions but this is not true, how many times do the guys who say that claim statements like "he should goto SF to face a lower level of opponents" when talking about someone failing in the UFC, I just call it how it is and if the fighters in SF are more skilled than the ones in the UFC then I give then the credit they deserve, its not been biased against the UFC if many of the top fighter in the sport especially the HW division are not in the UFC at present its just the way it is, if people can't accept that and see it as biased against the UFC then fine but it remains the truth.
> 
> ...


Obviously you are biased against the UFC. First off Arlovski didn't leave the UFC, he was let go. The idea I think you missed is the comparison to college football. Fedor's "strength of schedule" has fallen through the floor. Arlovski's been lost 3 times in a row since fighting Fedor. Silva isn't very good at all.

Now let's talk about your ludicrous, strikeforce biased rankings. 

1. Velasquez-at least you got 1 right
2. Overeem- beating Rogers puts you at #2. That's just idiotic. The guy hasn't beaten a good HW yet, and you have him second.
3. JDS-should be #2
4. Werdum-the article is right his stock drops after last night. Besides beating Fedor and Silva what has he done?
5. Bigfoot-This is just too stupid to talk about. Maybe he's #10, maybe.
6. Fedor has lost 2 in a row doesn't deserve to be this high.
7. Lesnar-he loses to #1 so he drops to 7. Fedor loses to your 4 and 5 and only drops to 6. Lesnar should be in the top 3.
8. Carwin-If it wasn't for the steroid controversy I would say he's top 5, but due to steroids I agree he needs to be lower.
9. Barnett- I honestly don't understand the fascination with Barnett. He's a life long juicer who really hasn't beaten anyone good legally. 2006 was his last win over a top fighter.
10. Rogers is absolutely terrible. Mir should be higher than Barnett for sure. Look at their records side by side and who they've beaten.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

rockybalboa25 said:


> 1. Velasquez-at least you got 1 right
> 2. Overeem- beating Rogers puts you at #2. That's just idiotic. The guy hasn't beaten a good HW yet, and you have him second.
> 3. JDS-should be #2
> 4. Werdum-the article is right his stock drops after last night. Besides beating Fedor and Silva what has he done?
> ...


Alright I usually take the UFC side of this argument. But who would you put top 10 if you take a couple of these guys out? 

I sort of give Overeem a pass just on potential and his striking accomplishments. I would go JDS #2 and Overeem #3 because of what they have done. 

WTF are you talking about what has Werdum done? He has several top 10 wins under his belt. And plenty of good wins. More than Lesnar, Carwin, Overeem put together.

After that Lesnar at #3? ARe you kidding? He is 5-2. Very easily could be 4-3 if Carwin didn't gas like he is a TUF HW. Lesnar met his match wrestling with Carwin and Cain. Other than that he used his size to beat Mir, Herring and Randy. Good fighters, but his last 2 fights prove he isn't top 3. He could still beat a lot of guys who can't stop his TD, but as far as what he has shown and done, no way he is top 3...no way.

Barnett is weird for me, not sure where to put him. Beating Rizzo and Monson over the last couple years is more than a lot of these guys have done. I don't like that he is a life long juicer who keeps getting 2nd and 3rd chances. Credibility goes down with so many times being caught.

Agree that Rogers doesn't deserve top 10. 1 good win in an entire career and almost losing to a legit can the last time out puts you far out of my top 10.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Obviously you are biased against the UFC. First off Arlovski didn't leave the UFC, he was let go. The idea I think you missed is the comparison to college football. Fedor's "strength of schedule" has fallen through the floor. Arlovski's been lost 3 times in a row since fighting Fedor. Silva isn't very good at all.
> 
> Now let's talk about your ludicrous, strikeforce biased rankings.
> 
> ...


Well thats the way a UFC nut hugger would see it I guess, but then what do UFC nut huggers know about MMA.

1. OK we agree on No.1 should Overeem prove dominant over Werdum and Bigfoot we may soon not agree becasue he coudl be No.1 very soon.

2. Overeem has done a lot more than just beat Rogers, he has literary destroyed every opponent who has stepped into the ring or cage against him since he turned in the the Hulk, some may argue the fact he is K-1 champ does not count to his MMA ranking, but he is an experienced and recognized, at least recognized to anyone who is not a DW worshiping UFC hugger as an MMA fighter who is also K-1 champ, and stand up does play a huge part in the HW division more so than any other division, I think the Reem talent wise is No.1 and soon he will show the world what an good MMA fighter with that level of striking do.

3. JDS would get KTFO against the Reem, at least thats would be my prediction.

4. 2xADCC World Submission Wrestling Championship 2007 & 2009 so recent, respectable UFC record loosing to one of the top 2, still possible No.1 HW in the UFC, and Fedor and Silva are big tests for any fighter.

5. All ready wrote a huge part comparing Silva to Brock in this topic, make what you will but the facts stand he is proving to be a real top fighter.

6. Its hard to be so high for so long and drop out the top 10 after a couple of losses to very talented opponents, if GSP was to lose his next 2 fights to say Shields then Condit just as an example, would you then drop him lower than No.6 in a list of No.1 WW's?

7. Lesnar was never No.1 he was lucky to break the top 5 at one point with his comeback over Carwin, I would not back him in a rematch with Carwin, take away all the UFC hype which is what I do to make this list and you are left with a man who has proved very little in MMA, with a very limited skill set, his athletic ability for a man of his size is what gets him into the top 10, but he is miles off No.1 and always was.

8. Don't you mean if you take away all the non-UFC fighters then you would make him top 5?

9. He has a great record and again you are just judging good opponents as been UFC opponents in your statement, yet you think I am the one who is biased here.

10. Rogers has proved dangerous to many opponents, he is as dangerous as Carwin in many ways so there for should not be that far behind him, you say he is terrible with nothign to back up your statement what so ever, oh I forgot he is terrible because he is not in the UFC thats right thats how you see things, well while you where saying that he kept winning and putting on good performances, Ok he was smashed by the Reem, but its hard to see anyone the Reem would not smash right now outside the top 10 list to replace him.

And just because a list is not biased towards the UFC, it does not make it prejudice against them, all I did was take away the UFC hype behind all the fighters and judge them on there records and abilities that we have seen, and I judged UFC and NON-UFC fighters alike and this was the resulst, if UFC huggers are going to judge that as prejudice against them then fine it does not chance the truth and like I said before what do UFC nut huggers now about MMA aside from what DW tells them, remember when you though Brock was unbeatable not long back because DW told you that bullsh1t, did you not learn anything from that.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> 10. Rogers has proved dangerous to many opponents, he is as dangerous as Carwin in many ways so there for should not be that far behind him, you say he is terrible with nothign to back up your statement what so ever, oh I forgot he is terrible because he is not in the UFC thats right thats how you see things, well while you where saying that he kept winning and putting on good performances, Ok he was smashed by the Reem, but its hard to see anyone the Reem would not smash right now outside the top 10 list to replace him.


You make a pretty good list.

But can you go into detail as to why Rogers gets top 10 mention? Perhaps talk about his best wins of his career. Maybe go into detail about his last fight.

No one is bashing him because he lost to Fedor and Overeem. People don't put him top 10 because he literally has 1 good win in his life...and Arlovski hasn't been the same in years. He also almost lost to a guy with a below .500 record. 

He is comparable to Carwin. But Carwin has beat more than 1 credible guy. Also Carwin has a much better wrestling base, and proved it by stopping Lesnar's TDs. His gas tank is another story, but he has more skills than Rogers and more than 1 good win.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Well thats the way a UFC nut hugger would see it I guess, but then what do UFC nut huggers know about MMA.
> 
> 1. OK we agree on No.1 should Overeem prove dominant over Werdum and Bigfoot we may soon not agree becasue he coudl be No.1 very soon.
> 
> ...


2. This is mma not K-1. Do we rank Brock higher for his real wrestling pedigree. No that is just an aspect of mma, just like kickboxing. While we are at let's rate Herschell Walker high, he was dominant in football. Talent doesn't make ranking wins do. Overeem had an average LHW career and hasn't beaten anyone good at HW. What he has done in another sport is irrelevant.

3. I think JDS win's that fight but that's opinion. What isn't an opinion is record, and the fact that he knocked out your #4.
4. Again this is mma. Damian Maia is ranked any higher for what he has done outside mma, neither is Werdum. A respectable UFC record 2-2. Ko'd but JDS, and all his other fights were against guys who have been cut from the UFC. A win over Fedor doesn't mean as much as it used to, and Silva just isn't that goodt.
5. Silva's only win over a credible top 10 fighter was last night. He hasn't proven himself. Potential doesn't make rankings. Rankings are based on achievements.
6. First off I don't think Fedor should have been #1. I don't think that anyone could argue GSP isn't #1. Secondly it would be hard to drop GSP that far because he's beaten all the other guys below him. Think of 5 top 10 WW that GSP hasn't beaten. Fedor hasn't that's the difference.
7. Lesnar was the consensus #1 by every ranking system out there when he fought Velasquez. I would back him in a rematch against Carwin. I think Lesnar could beat him again. Which he did. Did it matter in your rankings that Rogers won the first round against Fedor, or that Big Nog has been losing in almost every fight before he wins? Of course not a win is a win. Lesnar also has wins over ranked opponents Carwin and Mir, and since I guess we're counting undeserved rankings Couture.
8. No he beat Mir who at the time was ranked very high. I can agree that an argument can be made that he should be 6 or 7. 
9. Let's see who Barnett has beat that's ranked in the top 10: Over four years ago he won a split decision against Big Nog that was later avenged by Nog. That's it. Yes he's beaten Rizzo after that meant anything and descent but not great fighters like Monson, Hunt, and Aleks. He has lost to CroCop 3 times, Nog, and Rizzo. Also we don't know if he can win in the US, where there is steroid testing. He has beaten Rizzo and Yvel, other than that the last time he won a fight in the US without roids is Bobby Hoffman in 2001.
10. Rogers is not even closet to being as dangerous as Carwin. Carwin has more power and really good wrestling. Rogers threw one good right hand once against Arlovksi. His boxing is sloppy. He has no other abilities. He has no wins over top tier opponents. If you need a fighter to put here that's not in the UFC put Karitonov here instead. Rogers is a can plain and simple. 

I think it's interesting that the only way you think someone can think UFC fighters should be ranked highly is by hype or being a hugger. Right there you show your bias. If you go on recent records, which is what rankings are based on then you couldn't rank your list that way.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Agreed that I would rank Sergei higher than Rogers. By a good margin too. I mean Sergei just matched Roger's lone career highlight by KOing AA in the 1st round. Then he has many more credible wins than Rogers...who basically has no more quality wins.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> You make a pretty good list.
> 
> But can you go into detail as to why Rogers gets top 10 mention? Perhaps talk about his best wins of his career. Maybe go into detail about his last fight.
> 
> ...


To be fair Rogers is on the ropes in this list anyway, if I had to make a prediction right now I would say he loses to Barnett and Mir beats Nelson and this argument is laid to rest anyway, but when you start out your career finishing every opponent you face so quickly, then you get signed by ether the UFC or SF and continue to carry on that habit you are going to rise fast.

If you want to compare Carwin to Rogers then it was going very close to there big deal signing, in term os recognized opponents Humphrey, Arlovski for Bret and Gonzaga, Mir for Carwin at this point the differences is not has huge as the hype of been in the UFC would have you believe, yet many are calling Carwin No.2 in the world leading to his title shot against Brock justify that how you will, but to call Rogers and Carwin a world part is just nothing but biased towards the UFC, Rogers goes and loses to Fedor not much shame there especially since he put on a good performance,

While Carwin beats Mir, this takes Carwin up above but leaves Rogers round the Mir Level considering current ranking of opponents at the time and putting them into perspective now, at this point Rogers was above Mir just on a knife edge having put a good perfrmace in against Fedor while Mir was smashed by Carwin, as stated jumping Carwin ahead as he still remains currently.

Mir since got the win against the fading out the ranking very quickly version of Cro Cop in what was also an unconvincing overall performance, while Rogers gets smashed by arguably the most dangerous HW of the top level, this is enough to turn the knifes edge back in Mir's favor, then like you say Rogers does come back with a win of his own against a lower level opponent, this is not enough to rise him up the ranks significantly but it does him no harm in the sense that he is not losing rank following a win, and brings thus brings him up to close to Mir to call.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Agreed that I would rank Sergei higher than Rogers. By a good margin too. I mean Sergei just matched Roger's lone career highlight by KOing AA in the 1st round. Then he has many more credible wins than Rogers...who basically has no more quality wins.


You could be right about Sergei put him at 10 and then both Mir and Rogers are out, but Rogers and Mir are still that close in the rankings. I would have Sergei in the top 15 fir for and maybe I am under rating him at that, one more win from him and he is a stable top 10 without question.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

rockybalboa25 said:


> 2. This is mma not K-1. Do we rank Brock higher for his real wrestling pedigree. No that is just an aspect of mma, just like kickboxing. While we are at let's rate Herschell Walker high, he was dominant in football. Talent doesn't make ranking wins do. Overeem had an average LHW career and hasn't beaten anyone good at HW. What he has done in another sport is irrelevant.
> 
> 3. I think JDS win's that fight but that's opinion. What isn't an opinion is record, and the fact that he knocked out your #4.
> 4. Again this is mma. Damian Maia is ranked any higher for what he has done outside mma, neither is Werdum. A respectable UFC record 2-2. Ko'd but JDS, and all his other fights were against guys who have been cut from the UFC. A win over Fedor doesn't mean as much as it used to, and Silva just isn't that goodt.
> ...


and your not basing your opinion on all the UFC hype then, without going though all your points to point out how UFC biased you are, I think most MMA fans will see that for themselves, I will jump straight to No.10

Carwin also has very sloppy boxing and very low hands, which for a guy of his size who lacks real speed like say Anderson Silva is going to get him KTFO when he runs into he elite strikers out there at HW, and if you think his rise to the top 10 was so much more Superior to Rogers rise to the top 10 then that is nothing more than been UFC biased, which you are always anyway, Brock Lesnar the best HW ever remember?" after his hand fed career to become champion, I recall you as one of his biggest followers just echoing everything DW had to say about him, I see you still follow that trend of following DW opinions no matter how biased they are.

I would love to see your top 10 list even tho it would be so UFC biased it would just be UFC top 10 list.


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

Fedor losing actually made me more interested in the tournament, was a nice surprise


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Mir since got the win against the fading out the ranking very quickly version of Cro Cop in what was also an unconvincing overall performance, while Rogers gets smashed by arguably the most dangerous HW of the top level, this is enough to turn the knifes edge back in Mir's favor, then like you say Rogers does come back with a win of his own against a lower level opponent, this is not enough to rise him up the ranks significantly but it does him no harm in the sense that he is not losing rank following a win, and brings thus brings him up to close to Mir to call.


I mean lets be real. Humphrey is far from anything. As much of a down fall Gonzo is he is still more relevant than Humphrey.

The thing about it is Mir has fought decent guys all along. Even beating a guy like Hardonk is more credible than most of anything Rogers has done. As overrated as Kongo is (which he is far overrated) at least a submission specialist (mir) dropped his ass...then sub'd him. As bad as Big Nog has been, he was still teh first to stop him. I mean he has more than 1 fight. Rogers has 1 fight vs. a guy that hasn't been in the top 10 for a couple years and who was damaged goods after the KO loss to Fedor. 

I am not giving AA credit. I won't. He has boxing skills, but he is getting KO'd left and right...a fight with a one-dimensional guy known for power is a terrible matchup. 

I just don't see how Sergei isn't on your list but Rogers is. Sergei just matched his best win. And has had way more success against better competition his whole career. 

I get the Carwin comparison. But to mean...if I am going to give Overeem the benefit of the doubt for being such a good striker with no HW resume...then I give the nod huge to Carwin for his wrestling background and ability. Carwin is an average gas tank away from being undefeated.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Sergei does make a good case for edging on the thin line of a top 10 place that Roger and Mir both currently also walk along, very soon the picture will become very clear, if we can't separate after Barnett vs Rogers fight, we sure as hell will be able to separate after the winner of that fight faces Sergei.

But I but him on the list anyway as another possible No.10 at the moment since there is so very little in it between some positions, like you say he matched Rogers victory over AA, and has a very solid record, lets not forget that beating Overeem at the time he beat Overeem was not as creditable as gaining a win over him now he was a completely different fighter back then, so that does not jump him as much as it may seem in current rankings holding past wins over the Reem and Werdum, and only fighting once in both 2008 and 2009 against low ranked opponents and losing to one of them did not do his ranking any favors and is yet to face a certain top level fighter since then with AA's record been so much in question in just how much he has fell since beating Roy Nelson only 2 years ago.




Devil_Bingo said:


> Fedor losing actually made me more interested in the tournament, was a nice surprise


Same here, as much as I wanted to see Fedor vs Reem, I am now a lot more interested in Bigfoot vs Reem, Bigfoot has really opened to doors now to step into the star light.

Not only am I interested in this tournament as much as ever, there are fights I want to see after possible elimination scenarios, like now for example I would love to see Arlovski va Griggs, and if Bigfoot should lose to say the Reem (without meaning to write Werdum off but I only give him a 10/90 split chance) in the semi finals I would still love to see him fighter Rogers, Barnett and Sergei at some point in the future, there are tons of good follow up fights for SF to run after this tourney.


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

This is how it's going to go down (write this down).

Brett (human bowling pin) will get taken down and GnPed for 3 rounds, but probably not a finish.

Sergei will then stuff Barnett with ease and knock him out.

On the other side, Overeem will knock both Werdum and Antonio Silva out - KO or TKO with ease.

Sergei V Overeem in the final - I would say Sergei has a chance, though I think there will be a clinch or two were Overeem hurts Sergei badly and KOs/TKOs him.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

MrObjective said:


> This is how it's going to go down (write this down).
> 
> Brett (human bowling pin) will get taken down and GnPed for 3 rounds, but probably not a finish.
> 
> ...


That would certify the Reems place as No.1 HW without question, Rogers would be out of the top 10 and Barnett would maybe also drop out depending on what happens in the UFC during this time but its more thn liekly he would drop, Sergei woudl be in there floating around the top 5ish give or take, maybe still under Big foot and Werdum, and it would make for a great follow up fight between Sergei and Big Foot which I would really like to see :thumb02:


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Devil_Bingo said:


> Fedor losing actually made me more interested in the tournament, was a nice surprise


Same here :thumbsup:


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Since there is so much debate here's how I would rank the top ten.

1. Cain-he's undefeated and beat the former consensus #1. He obviously deserves to be here.
2. JDS-he has only 1 loss early on and wins over Werdum, Gonzaga (who's not great, but isn't a can like Humphrey), and CroCop
3. Brock Lesnar-look this is the one I would accept the most critism on. If you think Werdum has the right to be here I wouldn't argue. He has a wins over Carwin, Mir, Couture, and Herring. While Herring and Couture aren't great, Couture was better at the time of the fight than either AA or Syliva have been post-UFC
4. Werdum-wins over Fedor, Syliva, Gonzaga, and Overeem
5. Shane Carwin-wins over Mir and Gonzaga with his only loss to coming to Lesnar
6. Frank Mir while Mir has lost twice recently He is 5 out of his last 7 with win over Big Nog, Lesnar, Congo, and Cro cop
7. Antonio Silva-wins over AA and Fedor with his only recent loss to Werdum (the best HW in strikeforce).
8. Fedor once the greatest HW in the world has dropped due lack of recent wins over quality opponents and back to back losses. However he is still a very dangerous fighter that can end the fight at anytime on the feet.
9. Sergei Kharitnov-would be higher if not for the loss to Monson, but is still 4-1 in his last 5. He Ko'd overeem and AA. Also holds a PRIDE win over Werdum.
10. Alastair Overeem-had a lackluster LHW career with only 1 quality win. Beefed up to heavyweight hasn't beaten any legit HWs since a split decision win over Kharitnov.

Here's how the rest of the tournament goes. Werdum pulls off the upset and submits Overeem in the third round. Barnett Ko's Rogers in round 1, but tests positive for steroids. Werdum beats Silva by decision again. Fedor steps in for Barnett and armbars Kharitnov. Werdum and Fedor fight again and Werdum wins by decision this time.


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## strikersrevenge (Nov 20, 2010)

It will be a long time before there is another Emelianenko Fedor. If ever.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

strikersrevenge said:


> It will be a long time before there is another Emelianenko Fedor. If ever.


Mos def as far as record is concerned. Fedor was 31-1 before these last two fights, 31-3 by the time he is 34 Take a guy like Cain, who I think is the best HW out there hands down. He's 9-0 for him to get close to that he would have 22-3 over the next 6 years, that's more than four fights a year. He have to have no injuries in that time and fight every three months. Fedor's record is like Marciano's in boxing, it will probably never be matched. Will there be fighters of different generations that you can argue would be able to beat him in his prime, but that's part of the fun of combat sports, comparing guys of different eras.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Mos def as far as record is concerned. Fedor was 31-1 before these last two fights, 31-3 by the time he is 34 Take a guy like Cain, who I think is the best HW out there hands down. He's 9-0 for him to get close to that he would have 22-3 over the next 6 years, that's more than four fights a year. He have to have no injuries in that time and fight every three months. Fedor's record is like Marciano's in boxing, it will probably never be matched. Will there be fighters of different generations that you can argue would be able to beat him in his prime, but that's part of the fun of combat sports, comparing guys of different eras.


I would be surprised if Cain even has over 30 fights in his career, with been limited to only been able to fight for the UFC he wont ever get the chance to fight much.


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## strikersrevenge (Nov 20, 2010)

Cain is much like Fedor. They both come from a wrestling background and I think Cain is thew next Fedor. Cain is 6'0 240 and Fedor is 5'11" 230. They are both fast as hell on their feet and can both take u down at will. Fedor is the G.O.A.T. though. Emelianenko Fedor.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

strikersrevenge said:


> Cain is much like Fedor. They both come from a wrestling background and I think Cain is thew next Fedor. Cain is 6'0 240 and Fedor is 5'11" 230. They are both fast as hell on their feet and can both take u down at will. Fedor is the G.O.A.T. though. Emelianenko Fedor.


I do believe that Cain *could* be the next Fedor... but that would depend on a lot of things. Will he match the long unbeated streak? Probably not. IF Cain is to be considered up there, the UFC title cannot be passed around like a lollipop.

I agree as well that Cain is similar in stature to Fedor, both are small for heavy weights (size and weight wise). It's that extra abilities they posses that make them stand above the competition.

Also, Cain said on many occassions that he believe Fedor is the greatest fighter on the planet.... I wonder how Dana reacts to hearing the truth from hiw #1 fighter :thumb02:


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

KillerShark1985 said:


> I would be surprised if Cain even has over 30 fights in his career, with been limited to only been able to fight for the UFC he wont ever get the chance to fight much.


Being in the UFC has nothing to do with how many fights he will have. If he told the UFC he was willing to fight every 3 months he would. He is a huge draw right now. I think injuries will play a much bigger fight. Honestly Fedor must do something right in training to be able to go so long without serious injury.


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